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/RealEstate is a bi-weekly podcast where we chat with agents and experts in the real estate space to find out what strategies are working for them, what tools are powering their business, and how they are maneuvering shifts in the industry. Join host and marketing aficionado Chris Whitling as he uncovers the tips, tricks, and tech ambitious agents can use to take their businesses to the next level.
00:00:00:03 - 00:00:17:13
Chris Whitling
Hello and welcome to Forward Slash Real Estate, the podcast for the tech enabled agent. I say this every time, but we got an awesome guest for you. And we are going to explore all manner of social media. I'm just not going to give too much away right now so we can just get right into it. But Katie, welcome to the show.
00:00:17:13 - 00:00:21:04
Chris Whitling
And why don't you give us a little bit of an introduction so people know who you are?
00:00:21:06 - 00:00:40:11
Katie Lance
Absolutely. Thank you so much, Chris, for having me. It's really an honor to be here. Yeah, I've been in the social media space, real estate space, for a long time. I've been speaking and teaching and working in real estate marketing for almost two decades, which I can't believe. Time flies when you're having fun. I've been self-employed for the last 14 years.
00:00:40:12 - 00:01:11:21
Katie Lance
I work side by side with my husband, Paul, and we run a social media marketing firm, and we specialize in helping agents and brokers get smarter about social media. So I do a ton of training. We have an online academy. I do a lot of speaking at events for a book, as we talked about earlier. And yeah, our passion is just really leaning into the industry, helping, real estate agents figure out, you know, all these tools social media, AI now, video marketing and how they can really show up in a way that feels good to them because I don't think there's really a one size all fits solution.
00:01:12:00 - 00:01:21:08
Chris Whitling
So I want to start with, a quote that we have from you. And you said social media is rented ground. What do you mean by that?
00:01:21:10 - 00:01:40:06
Katie Lance
Well, I love that you asked for that. Yeah. Social media is rented ground. Meaning I don't think you should put your all your eggs in one basket. A lot of agents will, you know, really focus on Facebook or Instagram or TikTok or YouTube or whatever it might be. But there's no guarantees. We've all seen friends or colleagues or even yourself where your account gets gets hacked or the site is down for the day.
00:01:40:06 - 00:01:59:10
Katie Lance
And so I really think it's important to diversify where you're at. I don't think you have to be everywhere but pick a couple platforms that you enjoy being and that your clients are on. But more importantly, you want to own your content. So I'm a big believer in building your database. That's, you know, something you own no matter what, no matter where you go, if you move offices or brokerages, you got your database.
00:01:59:12 - 00:02:16:07
Katie Lance
And also really building a content library that also can go with you wherever you go. If it's Facebook today and next year, it's a new platform we haven't heard of yet. There's a lot of power in, in building that content library, which works for you over the course of time and in so many ways.
00:02:16:09 - 00:02:36:15
Chris Whitling
There's a lot there to, unpack in that, in that a little bit. First of all, I, I love it because. Yeah, you do hear the horror stories of, you know, accounts going away, you know, for unspecified reasons. And then I also really love the database thing. So why don't we why don't we talk first about, like, creating?
00:02:36:15 - 00:02:56:04
Chris Whitling
It kind of sounds like you're talking about, like, platform agnostic content. And because I hear other people talk a little bit about, you know, oh, well, this works well on TikTok or this works well on Instagram. So how much optimization do you, advise people to do, like on a platform basis or, you know, do you make like one piece of content and use it everywhere?
00:02:56:04 - 00:02:58:22
Chris Whitling
What's what's your like high level strategy here? And then we can drill down.
00:02:59:00 - 00:03:17:06
Katie Lance
Generally speaking, for most agents I and this might be controversial to say, but I don't think agents need to become a content creator. I don't think they need to become influencers. I think content creation and social media is one small part of the other 27 different hats they're wearing in the day. So I like to kind of take a 30,000ft view.
00:03:17:06 - 00:03:34:09
Katie Lance
And I really believe one of the easiest ways, I think for a lot of agents to do this is to think of a theme of their content and kind of think about it like every single month. If you can have a theme, this is one of the things we teach in our academy, kind of like, you know, any big media organization is going to have an editorial calendar where every month is kind of a theme.
00:03:34:15 - 00:03:52:07
Katie Lance
So if you have a theme for that month, let's say your theme is first time homebuyers. It doesn't mean you can't talk about other things if other things come up, but it's a lot easier to sit down and crank out 4 or 5 or 6 or 7 quick videos about one topic. You know, post them all right away, but you create them all into one batch.
00:03:52:09 - 00:04:12:10
Katie Lance
And then you can, you know, of course, repurpose them over the course of time. And that content could get posted on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, this and that. I think that obviously, you know, obviously you can optimize for each platform, but I think a lot of people suffer from analysis paralysis. And if you wait to do that, I often say done is better than perfect.
00:04:12:15 - 00:04:30:11
Katie Lance
Record it and get it up. And if that means you're getting it up and it's the same video that's on a couple different platforms with the same caption, it's fine. Could it be better? Yeah, but the reality is we're creating something that is in the feed for a nanosecond and it's a numbers game. The more you put out, the more people are going to see you.
00:04:30:12 - 00:04:35:13
Katie Lance
You know, it's you just have to kind of play those numbers just like anything in sales. It's all a numbers game.
00:04:35:19 - 00:04:53:17
Chris Whitling
So it kind of sounds like your your advice is to think about your social media less like, you know, I'm a content creator, which is definitely a, I don't know, a glitch that I think a lot of people have adopted. Versus this is one piece of my holistic marketing strategy. Is that accurate?
00:04:53:19 - 00:05:13:21
Katie Lance
Exactly. Is one piece of it. And it's also not just the posting part of it. I think that's the part that a lot of people kind of get tripped on, on what to post and how often. And I do think it's important to be consistent that just like any other marketing, whether you're talking about traditional marketing like doorknocking or printed mailers like consistency always wins is the same thing with content creation.
00:05:13:23 - 00:05:40:12
Katie Lance
So we always recommend, if you're going to do that, put out 1 or 2 helpful pieces of content every week where we can hear you, we can see you. It doesn't have to be a ten minute thing, but, you know, quick 30s 60s videos and show up. Be in the DMs, respond to questions, respond to comments, interact with other people and notice what are people doing your your clients that you're friends with, your, you know, local bakery, your local, your lender?
00:05:40:12 - 00:05:58:18
Katie Lance
What are they doing? And are you giving them some social love, so to speak? Are you liking commenting? Sharing their content is. That's a huge part of it too. You could be putting out content on a regular basis, but if you're not like interacting with others, first off, your content's not going to get seen by more people. And second of all, real estate's a relationship business.
00:05:58:19 - 00:06:04:08
Katie Lance
So you build relationships face to face, but you also build them online by showing up and being noticed and connecting.
00:06:04:12 - 00:06:16:00
Chris Whitling
The way that you describe. That makes me think that one of the things that people could, shift in their mindset is instead of doomscrolling, where they're kind of checking out to be more like actively engaged in that, in that feed.
00:06:16:02 - 00:06:37:12
Katie Lance
Simple thing that we teach a lot of agents is this idea of focus five. So you take five minutes, you open up whatever platform doesn't matter Facebook, TikTok, whatever. And you scroll through and you look for five posts that speak to you that are funny or interesting and you like, and then you leave a meaningful comment. And a meaningful comment is usually at least a sentence or two.
00:06:37:14 - 00:06:51:02
Katie Lance
I used to say a couple of words, but really it's a sentence or two. And if you are actually someone who leaves a sentence or two something like hey Chris, it's always your birthday. Happy birthday! I hope you're having an awesome day or hey Joe, I saw you just got back on vacation. Where did you guys stay? Those pictures looked amazing.
00:06:51:04 - 00:07:08:14
Katie Lance
You username. You ask a question, you have shown interest. You are going to be like a hero because nobody does that really. Everybody either Doomscrolling or they leave a couple hearts, right? Or they're like HBD happy birthday! So like if you are the one that's like saying something meaningful, it makes a big difference. And so focus five, five minutes a day.
00:07:08:18 - 00:07:09:13
Katie Lance
That's my bias.
00:07:09:15 - 00:07:33:15
Chris Whitling
I love that like that time advice. And I was actually going to scale the question up too, you know, especially since we were talking about this like in the sense of making it more of a holistic strategy, like at various time levels, like how do you allocate time to, you know, either the various channels or the various like types of content production, like, can you can you kind of work at top down for us on, you know, how to how to pull this off?
00:07:33:15 - 00:07:47:22
Katie Lance
Yeah, I love this question because I'm all about, you know, not necessarily managing our time because something's come up. And as an entrepreneur you would have the best plan. And then all of a sudden, like the plan just gets shot because you get a phone call and you have to, you know, change your whole plan. So things change.
00:07:47:22 - 00:08:07:19
Katie Lance
But I do think for a lot of us, if it's not on the calendar, it's not going to happen, right? And I heard somebody say, some speaker who said something like, you know, show me some of these calendar and I'll show you what's important to them, especially for business. So I highly recommend for social media content creation any of this, you do have to have some sort of system.
00:08:07:19 - 00:08:23:09
Katie Lance
So whether that's like for example, focus five, 5 or 10 minutes every morning. And I've been doing this for years. I do it before I open up email because email is like a black hole. So I do it kind of first thing after I do some of my morning, you know, personal activities. I'll do 5 or 10 minutes in the morning.
00:08:23:11 - 00:08:38:08
Katie Lance
And then I also recommend for agents and brokers to set aside a couple hours once a month to once or twice a month to batch create a lot of content. Now, you can create content and you're out and about. And a lot of people do this are in the car. They're in between appointments. I think that's great. That's part of social.
00:08:38:08 - 00:08:57:09
Katie Lance
It's like sort of the unexpected stuff that comes up. Right. But to be really consistent, I just think you have to plan it. So I recommend setting aside an hour or two once or twice a month. And in that time, to break it down, you're going to maybe spend about 30 minutes recording content, propping up your phone. You've got your, you know, notebook of, you know, some thoughts.
00:08:57:09 - 00:09:18:10
Katie Lance
You're going to speak to camera. You don't need to research it because you're talking about what you know, you talking about, like frequently asked questions. You're going to take the next 30 minutes and you're going to edit and edit it. Just something overly complicated. It's like maybe trimming out a pause or two. It's uploading it and making sure you have a little text on the screen, add some captions, and then from there in the next the last few minutes is either post it.
00:09:18:10 - 00:09:32:20
Katie Lance
If it's relevant, or save it as a draft or schedule it. And we actually just heard from the head of Instagram this morning. He said, hey, there's it's not going to ding you if you schedule your content, which is amazing. There's been all these, you know, rumors over the years of like, what if I schedule is it going to like affect my reach?
00:09:32:20 - 00:09:55:20
Katie Lance
And according to him it's not. So that's a beautiful thing. So just again be strategic. Look at the look at the time and go, okay cool, I've got 30 minutes. Get it done. And I would say the the way to be successful, that is you can't sit down and go, well what am I going to talk about? So this is where I think kind of having a little bit of a plan, I usually once or twice a year will look at my plan and go, okay, well, what are we talking about?
00:09:55:20 - 00:10:03:01
Katie Lance
What are some different content ideas? And just having, you know, some, some ideas ready to go. So you're not like, now what am I doing.
00:10:03:03 - 00:10:23:20
Chris Whitling
So there's so many trends that go around social media. And if you, you know, just sort of are looking through your feed of marketing experts, there are going to be a lot of people. It's like, well, right now you got to schedule or no, never schedule or use this hashtag or, you know, whatever it is. Right. So what do you see that is working right now, like from that world of advice that people should actually be pulling in?
00:10:24:00 - 00:10:49:07
Katie Lance
I think what is working right now is still it's still video, right? It's still reels. It's still short form content. In the short form meaning like 62nd or so content, you know, reels could be anywhere from, you know, seven seconds to, I guess now ten minutes or longer, depending on, you know, what kind of phone you have, but still that short form content, but specifically for realtors, showing up on camera for really, really important.
00:10:49:09 - 00:11:07:01
Katie Lance
It's kind of a timeless thing, but it's still it's really important. And I'll tell you why. It's really important right now. It's important right now because of AI. Because and this again, this might be a controversial thing to say, but when I'm scrolling through and I see you and I see you talking and you're sharing a tip or, hey, you know, this happened to me, let me tell you what a home inspection is.
00:11:07:01 - 00:11:28:15
Katie Lance
Here's three ways to move. If I get even the glimmer of like, wait a minute, that's not really Chris. That's not just a it's not really him. If I get the glimmer that that is the AI version of you, I feel like the trust factor sort of again, impacted by that. So one of the things I've been saying right now for agents, it's like, I want to see you.
00:11:28:17 - 00:11:43:04
Katie Lance
I want to see your, you know, your gray hairs and your wrinkles and like, however you look, I think trust is more important than ever before. And we are kind of it's not that I don't like I think it's amazing. Like there's so many cool things you can do with AI. But trust is so important in real estate.
00:11:43:04 - 00:12:04:19
Katie Lance
So now more than ever, basically speaking straight to camera, doing a 60s a quick tip. And I would also say in addition to that, not just sharing a quick tip, but sharing how you really feel about something. Right? So it's not just three ways to move to Nevada. It's if my mom were moving to Reno, let me tell you exactly what I would tell her, right?
00:12:05:01 - 00:12:13:13
Katie Lance
Oh, it's bringing that kind of energy of like, not being afraid to share your opinion, which means not everybody might like you, but it's all good. You don't have to be everyone's cup of tea.
00:12:13:15 - 00:12:30:22
Chris Whitling
What are your thoughts on scripting versus just off the cuff? You kind of answered this before, and I've seen people, you know, kind of go both ways on like a well, I have to hyper script it out and then you kind of see their eyes moving, you know, or you have the other person that's like, well, I just wing it all the time.
00:12:30:22 - 00:12:38:11
Chris Whitling
And sometimes they're, you know, they're questions are all or they're, they're statements are all over the place. Right, right. You know, where do you, how do you balance this out? Where do you come down.
00:12:38:13 - 00:12:55:10
Katie Lance
Yeah. So I mean, for me, I don't script, I, I can't say I never do it cause I've done it every once in a blue moon. If there's, like, certain points I definitely want to make, I think. I also think for data, if you're doing a video where you're really hitting specific data points, that is important. You want to be really accurate in in that.
00:12:55:12 - 00:13:10:06
Katie Lance
But it is tricky because like you said, people can kind of see your eyes. I think part of it comes down to what is most sustainable for you. And I have a really good example. There's a, a gentleman who we work with. He's in our academy and he said, you know, Katie, I know you're not a big fan of scripts.
00:13:10:06 - 00:13:35:00
Katie Lance
He's like, I just feel like if I don't have a teleprompter, like, I get super nervous. Like, I just don't think it's going to happen. And I was like, well, then use it. See? See how it goes. And for him, it works really well. He's got an app he uses. He has used it so much that he's not just reading off the teleprompter, but now he's so good that he can just sort of adlib and be his own, you know, kind of self, but also have the sort of security blanket of having that content right there.
00:13:35:00 - 00:13:54:21
Katie Lance
And so it totally works for him. So but either way, the more you do it, whether you use a teleprompter, you use a script or are off the cuff, the better you get. It is 100% a muscle. You get way better at talking faster or succinctly, less ums and oz, but you just have to put in the work, right?
00:13:54:21 - 00:14:11:06
Katie Lance
It's it's like the gym. You got to put in the reps, right to make it happen. And the first probably 100 videos you do, they might suck, they might be terrible, you might ramble, you might take forever to get to the point, but you have to kind of put in those reps to get to where you want to go.
00:14:11:08 - 00:14:28:23
Chris Whitling
Yeah, definitely. I'll probably add to that, you know, because people watch this and they'll say, oh, it's really cool that you do that. But, how did you get over hating your own voice? And I'm like, you just exactly what you said. You just have to do it. You just have to listen to it, and eventually that goes away.
00:14:29:00 - 00:14:34:21
Katie Lance
But I don't think it goes away completely. It's just. I think you care less about it. It just like. It's like it is what it is. You know, you.
00:14:34:21 - 00:14:36:18
Chris Whitling
More realize that's what I sound like.
00:14:36:20 - 00:14:37:01
Katie Lance
Yeah.
00:14:37:01 - 00:14:39:08
Chris Whitling
So yeah, it's acceptance. It's acceptance.
00:14:39:08 - 00:14:49:20
Katie Lance
Exactly, exactly, exactly, exactly. And the more you do it, the more you know, like where to look. And you, the more you do it, the more you know where you feel the most comfortable and and you know all that good stuff.
00:14:50:01 - 00:15:00:05
Chris Whitling
Okay. So of the marketing law that's out there right now, what is the overrated stuff? The stuff that you should, you know, steer away from because it's just you know, that.
00:15:00:07 - 00:15:15:02
Katie Lance
I think leaning into too many trends is overrated. I mean, it's fun. There are some fun trends, like there's a lot of trends going around right now of like, what were you like in the 90s, you know, and that's I think so there's certain things that are fun. And if they resonate with you, I think it's fun to do.
00:15:15:02 - 00:15:33:21
Katie Lance
I think, you know, back in the day, people would be like, oh, I don't want to be like the dancing TikTok, or I don't have to lip sync. And I feel like we've come a long way since then. I think most people realize, like, TikTok is way more than people who are singing and dancing, right? But I think you also don't have to jump on every trending music, every trending, you know, video if you want to.
00:15:33:21 - 00:15:52:11
Katie Lance
If you enjoy that, if you're someone who's like, super extroverted and you didn't do it, if that's you. But I also don't think you have to jump on the train and do everything. I would rather just see like the authentic version of you. And at the end of the day, especially if you're in real estate, if all you're doing is a bunch of trendy stuff, is that really actually being helpful?
00:15:52:11 - 00:16:02:06
Katie Lance
Is that actually like moving the needle forward as far as like, who you are and, and, you know, and putting that message out there of the expertise that you bring. So I think gives it a little balance.
00:16:02:08 - 00:16:07:08
Chris Whitling
Right. Yeah. Doing the TikTok dance doesn't really tell me how you're going to be selling my house.
00:16:07:10 - 00:16:22:19
Katie Lance
Yeah, yeah. I think it speaks to the relatability, which is valuable. Right? We do business with people we know, like and trust and relate to. So relatable is key. But if that's all you're doing, it's the same thing with AI. If all you're doing is putting out eye content, that's like, I don't really have a sense of who you are.
00:16:22:21 - 00:16:40:11
Katie Lance
I would say the same thing for someone who's just dialing it, dialing it in, paying someone else to do, and they're just posting like this generic canvas stuff that's not personalized again, like, that's going to hurt you too, right? So I mean, at the end of the day, you have to you have to show up and show who you are and share your personality.
00:16:40:13 - 00:17:00:23
Chris Whitling
I'm going to get on my soapbox here for a second, because producer Sean and I were talking about this earlier today. I've seen so many videos of, you know, how to automate your social media presence. You know, and using AI to idea, generate and then write scripts and then use an AI avatar to, you know, produce the video so that you're just, like, not involved.
00:17:01:01 - 00:17:19:02
Chris Whitling
And I mean, it's it's a great idea. It's sort of like you make money while you sleep, you know, type idea, but it's going to lack any sort of authenticity because you're just, you know, regurgitating like whatever's in the news, right? It's not your, your personal thoughts. So anyway, I'll let you react to that.
00:17:19:04 - 00:17:38:09
Katie Lance
Yes. Well, we're definitely on the same page. Yeah. I 100% agree that this is why when you scroll through Instagram right now, so many things sort of sound the same because everyone's using ChatGPT and everyone's just copying and pasting. And you know, I think we're this unique, like early tipping point where it's like new and exciting. We're all trying it out and people are experimenting.
00:17:38:11 - 00:17:59:06
Katie Lance
But yeah, everybody's sounding kind of the same. You know? And if you are just sort of giving yourself completely to like AI and, you know, whether it's video, whether it's content, like you're going to you're going to sound like everybody else. So yeah, there's ways to use it. Which I can talk about if you want, but I think you have to be smart with I use it.
00:17:59:08 - 00:18:12:16
Chris Whitling
Yeah. Well, let's maybe dive into that a little bit right now. So like what? Where since AI is the hotness right now and everyone wants to talk about it, how do you advise people to use it and, you know, maintain authenticity?
00:18:12:18 - 00:18:34:04
Katie Lance
I think there's probably two big ways, right? I think time efficiency. I think it is very efficient, especially for anything written. Right. Listing descriptions, social media captions, coming up with hashtags. That's still a great way to use AI, I think just like anything else, you have to be very specific. You have to make sure it sounds like you, you cannot copy and paste.
00:18:34:04 - 00:18:57:02
Katie Lance
You really have to look at it and go, okay, I would never say that. Why does it always say it that way? Why does it have all these emojis? Let me change that. You know, like it gives you a good first draft. And I still think it's good for that. I think the more you customize any AI tool, whether it's Gemini Cloud, ChatGPT, perplexity, whatever you're using, as long as you've taken the time to kind of quote unquote train it and customize it, that's it's going to be a huge time saver.
00:18:57:04 - 00:19:17:09
Katie Lance
I also think, and I feel like this isn't talked about enough, is there are some really cool tools in video editing that are, that, that are kind of AI based. For example, I've been using a tool for a couple of years now, descript, descript.com, which I'm not affiliated. I just think they're great. And you can take a video, upload it to descript.
00:19:17:09 - 00:19:34:14
Katie Lance
It's your video. You. I'm the one talking. Right. But they have some AI tools that will fix the sound. You know, if there's an airplane flying by, or they'll take out the ums and the eyes, they'll take out the pauses. So now for me, and I'm just speaking for myself, like I post and create and edit all my own content.
00:19:34:20 - 00:19:51:22
Katie Lance
I don't have two hours to edit one video, so by using a tool like the script and there's other tools that are out there like this because of the AI features, I can edit something in like 5 or 10 minutes, right. I can also take a ten minute video and click the little AI button and it'll chunk it out into a bunch of smaller clips.
00:19:51:22 - 00:19:56:23
Katie Lance
So just big time saving tool, which I which I think is key.
00:19:57:01 - 00:20:17:19
Chris Whitling
You've already talked about, you know, the time blocking and you know the best way to like orchestrate the calendar, which I think is really great advice and everyone should like write that one down. But maybe we could go into a little bit of like the mechanics of how you would actually operate on a platform like Instagram to, you know, kind of actually execute on, on the thing.
00:20:17:19 - 00:20:28:16
Chris Whitling
So maybe let me start with the question of is Instagram where it's at or is it TikTok or is it, you know, one of these other platforms like where do you advise people to spend, you know, most of their time.
00:20:28:16 - 00:21:00:05
Katie Lance
So for most agents, I would say Instagram and Facebook primarily, that's kind of where we're seeing the biggest influx of agents, but also consumers. That's still really the number one platform, number one platforms for for a lot of folks, a lot of it kind of comes down to your demographics. So and I also say don't assume, one of the things I'm advising our agents that we work with is to, you know, if they have a database, which I recommend, they have a database, send an email to your database and ask folks, you might say, hey, we are working on serving you better with what we post to social media.
00:21:00:05 - 00:21:30:04
Katie Lance
And we're just wondering, where are you spending time these days? Is it Facebook, Instagram, TikTok? YouTube? None of the above and they will be honest with you, right? So I think sometimes we assume, but I would say, generally speaking, Facebook and Instagram, LinkedIn is kind of a strong third low, you know, especially if you're trying to reach, kind of an, a sea level executive or you're trying to reach someone in sort of corporate America, or you're working with people in sort of in the investment world, they oftentimes are not on Instagram or Facebook, and you will find them on LinkedIn.
00:21:30:04 - 00:21:50:09
Katie Lance
So, you know, there's sort of these caveats. It really depends on your network. YouTube is a is owned by Google. Right. So YouTube works much differently than some of the other platforms too. It's more of like that searchability and expanding your sphere. And you know, so again, you want to stretch yourself to then I recommend for most agents start with Facebook, Instagram.
00:21:50:11 - 00:22:08:21
Katie Lance
And then as you build that content library and you build your comfort and creating and executing quickly in more efficiently, then you might call, okay, well, I'm already uploading these two platforms. It's easy enough to also share over here. Or maybe post over here too. So yeah, I kind of start small and you can always grow.
00:22:08:21 - 00:22:38:01
Chris Whitling
Yeah, and I really like that. Like standard marketing advice of know your audience, right. You know, and the nuance between LinkedIn, versus Facebook or Instagram I think is is a great one. Yeah. I think I want to transition topics now because I've been chomping to get to this one because you keep saying, you know, build your database, get the people off the apps, you know, and I think this one might be, like potentially one of the most critical pieces of advice that you're giving.
00:22:38:01 - 00:22:58:19
Chris Whitling
And it seems like a lot of agents seem to think, well, I'm going to post on social media and then, my Instagram, my following is going to increase. And then question mark. Magic. I sell more houses, I guess. Right. And so walk us through how you're advising people to to do this. What are the actual steps they're looking for.
00:22:58:19 - 00:23:01:07
Chris Whitling
And like the the path to success here.
00:23:01:09 - 00:23:24:15
Katie Lance
Yeah. It's important to think about right. So I, I feel like you know we've you've all probably seen the, sort of traditional sales funnel, right, where people come in and then eventually they become they become kind of a lead. And that's I look at that, kind of with a social media lens. So if you're kind of imagining that sort of traditional sales funnel at the very top, if we think of social media, the very top is like, is your content?
00:23:24:18 - 00:23:43:05
Katie Lance
Right? So it's it's the it's the person standing in line at Starbucks. They're scrolling or sitting waiting for their kids and they're like, oh, that's funny. Oh that's interesting. Oh, he's a realtor. Like it's that's what's happening. Right. And then you start to pop up a little bit more, a little bit more because maybe they liked it or they thought it was funny and they shared it with a friend, or they thought it was interesting to share with their mom.
00:23:43:11 - 00:23:56:23
Katie Lance
So now they start to see you a little more often, right? They're kind of moving down the funnel a little bit now. They're not liking or even doing anything with your content because most people lurk. To be honest with you, a lot of people are lurkers, especially with real estate content, because it's the biggest financial decision of most people's lives.
00:23:56:23 - 00:24:13:00
Katie Lance
So a lot of people don't even say anything. But now you start popping up a little bit more. They're like, oh, this guy, I'm going to like this. I'm going to comment. So maybe they start liking or commenting, so maybe they even go to your page and they're like, what's this guy all about? Now let's see a few of you and they start binge watching some of your videos because they really like it and so they follow you.
00:24:13:00 - 00:24:29:16
Katie Lance
So now they're following it okay. And now because they followed you now they really have like your vibe. And now occasionally you're popping up in their stories right up at the top on Instagram or Facebook, especially when they as soon as you follow someone, their stories or one of the first things to appear. So now they're like, oh, they click on your stories.
00:24:29:16 - 00:24:47:06
Katie Lance
Oh my gosh, he's got a dog. Oh look, they're all on vacation. Like they get a sense of who you are. This goes on for a while right? Okay. And then perhaps at some point when the conversation of real estate comes up, they're like, wait a minute, there's that guy. What's his name? I follow him, oh, there he is.
00:24:47:08 - 00:25:06:13
Katie Lance
And they might DM you and go, hey, you know, I've been following you for a long time. Really like your content, like you've got a great vibe. You know, my best friend was talking about me. They're thinking about selling your home, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right. So that is often kind of the trajectory of what happens somewhere in there, though you can also control that a little bit.
00:25:06:15 - 00:25:23:15
Katie Lance
So similar kind of in the middle of that funnel. What I like to do and what we advise is a couple times a month, ideally once or twice a month, if you can have some sort of helpful piece of content and at the end say something like, hey, by the way, I have a whole comprehensive guide to buying your first home in Denver.
00:25:23:15 - 00:25:41:22
Katie Lance
And if you would like that, like and comment below or send me a DM and I'm happy to send it to you. Right? So you have a pretty strong call to action where you're giving something super juicy, super helpful relocation guide, a moving guide, whatever. Now you have the email right now you have your email and now you can say, hey, you manifested that you need permission to email them.
00:25:42:00 - 00:25:58:11
Katie Lance
Or if you're really fancy, you got a landing page in your capture their email. But it doesn't have to be fancy. You could just get the email and now you have their email. And the reality is, is once you have someone's email and you've moved the conversation from the DMs, from comments to an email, that is a big step.
00:25:58:12 - 00:26:17:12
Katie Lance
And then I feel like a big step. But it really is. And if you get them on your email list and not just send them listings, but now maybe you send them a monthly email newsletter where you're sharing helpful tips. Now they're not just following you randomly in the algorithm. They're they've actually opted in to get your get your emails.
00:26:17:13 - 00:26:35:03
Katie Lance
So it takes time. Like none of this just happens overnight. But thinking through all of that, understanding the funnel and then also being strategic with your content going, okay, how can I strategically a couple times a month, try to drive, even if you're driving five people to your email list, well, that's five more than you had before, right?
00:26:35:05 - 00:26:40:02
Katie Lance
So again, that might be more than what you asked for. But that's what I that's what I recommend.
00:26:40:02 - 00:27:03:06
Chris Whitling
Yeah. No, this is exactly, I mean, it matches my conception of how you do this. You build the audience and then you issue the CTA to try and pull some of them down the funnel a little bit. And, you know, maybe just to underline this, you know, a follower is great. You know, a DM conversation's good, but an email is the gold standard, right?
00:27:03:06 - 00:27:06:03
Chris Whitling
Like now you're making now you're making progress.
00:27:06:05 - 00:27:26:05
Katie Lance
For sure 100%. Yeah. That's that is absolutely the gold standard. So what all of that requires when you start thinking that way, it's not just what am I going to post today, right. This is why if I go back to the very beginning of our conversation, when I said, I really recommend having a theme for the month, because when you have a theme, you kind of start to think about, okay, what's the bigger picture?
00:27:26:07 - 00:27:40:05
Katie Lance
If you love working with first time homebuyers and that happens to be your theme for the month, you might go, you know what, maybe I'll do a zoom, zoom webinar at the end of the month where I'm going to do like a first time homebuyer seminar, and I'll partner with a lender and we'll and that could be your call to action.
00:27:40:06 - 00:27:53:21
Katie Lance
Right? So now you've got these 4 or 5 videos that you batched. You take an hour hour and a half to record them. And at the end you're like, hey, by the way, if this is helpful, at the end of the month, we're hosting a free seminar for first time owners, if you're interested. Like and comment below. So you're taking it.
00:27:53:21 - 00:28:07:17
Katie Lance
It takes a little bit of time, of course, but you're taking a step back and it's like you're just thinking from that 30,000ft view, not versus what I got. What do I have to post today. So and again, the more you do it, the more it becomes more of a routine, you know.
00:28:07:19 - 00:28:27:16
Chris Whitling
So question for you, maybe I'm thinking about this from a more like traditional demand gen marketing, you know, standpoint because my, my instinct has always been like, well, go to the link in the bio and hit that landing page, and enter your, enter your information there. And you keep saying, you know, like and comment below.
00:28:27:18 - 00:28:42:20
Chris Whitling
So what is this step between them? You know, they, they leave the comment that's like, I'm I'm interested. Send me the thing, you know, whatever. So presumably you've got to send them a DM and open that conversation. How do you advise people to handle that? Kind of like messy bit between the comment and the.
00:28:42:23 - 00:28:43:07
Katie Lance
I love that.
00:28:43:07 - 00:28:46:19
Chris Whitling
Email entering the, entering the database.
00:28:46:21 - 00:28:50:03
Katie Lance
Yeah. This is so good. Nobody ever asked me that. So this is great.
00:28:50:05 - 00:28:52:09
Chris Whitling
I'm just like, you know what? I gotta know the details.
00:28:52:11 - 00:29:13:17
Katie Lance
Yeah, it is a messy bit. Okay, so this is the part where it is platform. It changes for each platform. Okay. So you guys are getting the real scoop here. Okay. So, I would say for a lot of places it's very hard to get someone to click your link in the bio where that is the exception, at least for right now is TikTok.
00:29:13:19 - 00:29:27:08
Katie Lance
So if I'm posting, if I have one video and that's my call to action, I'm going to post it to TikTok. If I'm on TikTok, I am. But I mean, there's that is an agent and my call to action be like, hey, if you're interested, link in bio. That's probably the only place I would say link in bio.
00:29:27:10 - 00:29:46:07
Katie Lance
If I'm posting it to LinkedIn or my Facebook business page. Ideally, if I had a link like a landing page 100% post a link. So I've got this whole video, I've got a little caption. Hey, by the way, if you're interested, my first time homebuyer seminar, click here. Register right if I'm doing this on Instagram, this is where it gets tricky.
00:29:46:09 - 00:30:16:22
Katie Lance
This is where I would say like and comment below. And ideally, in a perfect world, this is a little bit more advanced. I would set up an AI automation. This is another reason to use AI. I use a tool called Mini Chat. It's m a NYCHA at dot com. It is a paid tool and not affiliated. I just used it for a long time and there's lots of companies who do this, but you can set up an AI automation or before you post it, you can say, okay, when I post this, when people comment with this word, the word link, or the word home or the word class, I want them to get a DM
00:30:16:22 - 00:30:32:19
Katie Lance
that says this. So that's how you get it really quick. Because if someone watches your video and like, I like this guy, oh, he's got a seminar. Hey. Hey, honey, could we attend this seminar okay. Yeah. Cool. And they, like, comment or like link? They want the link right away. They don't want to go into six hours when you're on Instagram again.
00:30:32:21 - 00:30:47:01
Katie Lance
So you can set up an AI automation. I think it works best for Instagram, but you can't do it for Facebook. I don't have a if you if it works on I think it does work on TikTok, but TikTok is really funky with DMs. And if you're following them, we're not following. And that's why I do the Lincoln bio thing on TikTok.
00:30:47:01 - 00:30:55:21
Katie Lance
So again, might be more than you asked, but that is the one part, the messy middle where that little teeny part does make a big difference.
00:30:55:21 - 00:31:17:11
Chris Whitling
So I also heard people argue, well, you know, if you respond too fast, then it comes off as inauthentic because it's obviously automation versus, you know, oh, if I get there, you know, some time later, like I've kind of written that off. It's like, I don't I don't think that's, you know, I sort of subscribed to your previous thought of like, they want it right now.
00:31:17:16 - 00:31:34:22
Katie Lance
Yeah. I was very hesitant. I did not do AI automation for my DMs forever because I very much pride myself. Like when you comment, when you respond like I or when you reach out to me, I don't have an assistant who does it like it's me, right? So I was like, I can respond, I am on there all the time.
00:31:34:22 - 00:31:48:23
Katie Lance
But then I looked at it from the point of a user, and I had my own experience where I was. I came across someone's video and she had some sort of class or course that I was interested in, and I was like, oh, that sounds perfect. I said the little word and that's like, and then I got it right away.
00:31:48:23 - 00:32:08:21
Katie Lance
I'm like, this is amazing. So the experience, the customer experience of getting what you want, when you want it, like right away, almost like superseded, oh, is this automation or not? Right. Like I could tell it was definitely automated because it happened right away. I knew she wasn't right. They're sending it to me. But the thing that impressed me is she followed up personally.
00:32:09:02 - 00:32:20:22
Katie Lance
Right? Which is what I try to do, too. So, like, a day or two later, she was like, hey, Katie, I don't know if you got the link. Just checking in. And I could just, I think, and maybe that was on me too. But we had a little bit of a back and forth and at least to me, it felt very personal.
00:32:20:22 - 00:32:33:06
Katie Lance
So that's, I think, the secret sauce, you, you where you can go back and if you use a tool like mini chat, you don't have to just go to Instagram. They have a nice dashboard where you can see all your comments and, and, you know, kind of keep track of where they are and things like that.
00:32:33:06 - 00:32:37:09
Katie Lance
So I think having a balance of automation and also being that personal human.
00:32:37:09 - 00:32:50:20
Chris Whitling
Yeah, that's a good time management, thing as well, because you can get kind of overwhelming to track all that and, you know, figure out which inbox they went into. And yeah, you know, or it just, you know, typing on your cell phone is, you know, not efficient.
00:32:51:01 - 00:33:08:06
Katie Lance
And you can use this sort of eye on animation not just for social media. I mean, you could do it for a lot of different things. I've seen realtors who, you know, like an open house will have a QR code and instead of just going to, you know, I don't know, a property website that gives a the lead capture or, you know, they'll they'll say, hey, scan this.
00:33:08:06 - 00:33:14:07
Katie Lance
And then when you get to this, this post on my Instagram comment here and I'll send you this, like, there's a lot of different ways that you could use it to.
00:33:14:08 - 00:33:43:22
Chris Whitling
How would you advise someone if they're if they are like, I want to figure this out for myself. And I'm experimenting, you know, with my different audiences across my, you know, different networks. Like what KPIs are they looking for to, you know, see if they're making progress, you know, because I think that's one thing that people maybe, are searching for, like a feeling rather than, you know, actually, you know, looking at a bunch of data that would indicate that they're like, you know, winning at the at the thing.
00:33:43:22 - 00:34:01:20
Katie Lance
Yeah. It's a tricky question because and I kind of like anecdotally said this earlier, but the not that it's bad to look at your analytics because I think that there's definitely value in looking at it like, you know, a business suite has free analytics, YouTube analytics. There's lots of platforms, but the challenges, the metrics don't tell the full story.
00:34:01:22 - 00:34:18:23
Katie Lance
And people really do lurk for a long time. It real estate is very tricky when it comes to content. And it can be can feel very discouraging because you're like, oh, this is great. And then you get like one, like two likes. One of them is your mom, right? And you're like, this is this is definitely not working.
00:34:19:01 - 00:34:39:10
Katie Lance
But because real estate is the biggest financial decision for most people's lives, there's a whole psychology around it. A lot of people will not like and comment on real estate content because they think their friends are going, are going to see it. And for people who are very private about money, that's like the last thing they want to like and comment or like and comment on a cat video, but not your real estate video.
00:34:39:12 - 00:35:00:15
Katie Lance
So that's what makes it a little tricky. I do like to look at especially especially with Instagram. That's another reason why I kind of like Instagram, especially their analytics. I like to look at the number of people saving content. Saving is one of those like quiet metrics that's not public. And I find that if you have if you look at your content and you're getting a high level of saves, that's a great KPI.
00:35:00:15 - 00:35:28:04
Katie Lance
That's a great metric. They may not be commenting, they may not be DMing you yet, but they're saving your content and that is a really powerful action. So that's one thing to look at. And you know, again, I think it's also a numbers game too. I think a lot of times you aren't putting out enough content to get, you know, if you're just putting out 1 or 2 pieces of content a month, like that's not going to give you enough data to really look at it.
00:35:28:06 - 00:35:50:22
Katie Lance
And then the last thing I would say too is because things change. If you're looking at, okay, what was my top performing video from last year? Well, maybe it did well last year. Who knows if it'll do well now. So and again it's all subjective. Like what's it's really do well me you could get 200 views in a video, but if that leads to a DM from someone that leads to an email that leads to a lead in a month, like that's a win right there.
00:35:50:22 - 00:36:07:09
Chris Whitling
So does the Instagram algorithm look at the posts people are saving, like, could you save this post as a call to action? That is sort of like a sneaky, you know, because it's not public. It doesn't, you know, it's not you're not liking it. Just just click that save button, you know.
00:36:07:13 - 00:36:30:13
Katie Lance
100%. Yeah. I mean, I use it occasionally to, you know, I, I, I don't have a call to action every single time because I think that can get just annoying to always be that person. But yeah, I kind of sprinkle it in. And that's one of the things I advise people on too, is like, if you don't have something else to give them or you're not really sure what to say, a lot of agents at the end of the videos, they'll say, hey, if you're looking to buy or sell, contact me.
00:36:30:13 - 00:36:52:23
Katie Lance
You can email me and comment below and that's fine. But that also, limits it to a very small audience of people who are actually going to do that. So especially if you're putting out helpful content, a lot of people, you know, educational content or whatever, it's just easier to say, hey, by the way, this is helpful. Make sure you save this for the future, you know, or, or save it, you know, for, for when you need it, whatever it might be.
00:36:53:02 - 00:36:54:08
Katie Lance
And it depends on what the content.
00:36:54:08 - 00:37:02:23
Chris Whitling
You've got to let a relationship develop. You know, it's like you you can't meet someone a minute immediately ask to marry them. It's like, yeah, there's a middle part in there.
00:37:03:01 - 00:37:11:07
Katie Lance
Yes, yes. Gary Vaynerchuk very classically talks about this all the time. It's like you get to romance people a little bit, okay? Like it's important now.
00:37:11:08 - 00:37:28:17
Chris Whitling
It's so funny that you mention him because I was really thinking about, his early wine library TV days, with some of the stuff you were talking about, especially the lurkers, you know, and he used to do that a lot. He would address the lurkers, you know, so I, I like that.
00:37:28:17 - 00:37:47:13
Katie Lance
Anyway, that's true. Yeah. It's true. It and I mean, he's a great example. It's like you got to put the work in, you know, and it's, it is a numbers game. I mean, you look at him, the amount of content he's been published. Not that someone the author needs to become the next Gary Vee, but, you know, it's it's a numbers game, and the more you do it, the better you get, etc., etc..
00:37:47:15 - 00:38:09:16
Chris Whitling
Another, like, messy mechanical, question. Right. So someone comments the thing they get the auto DM from many chat. I think there's probably another instinct that's like, all right, I got this email address. I'm going to stick him on a housing alert, in my real Geek CRM, you know, and send them to market reports and like, I'm going to nurture this person to close, but it also seems too soon for that.
00:38:09:18 - 00:38:24:16
Chris Whitling
So, how do you how do you again, think about, you know, okay, you got the email. Congratulations. This is a big step, but you still got to get them to a spot where they're like in a potential customer state or potential buying state. So how do you think about that?
00:38:24:18 - 00:38:45:18
Katie Lance
Yes. There is like sort of that next level of the missing messy middle. And I really don't think they should just automatically get, you know, into a funnel or automatically get put into a, into the CRM. I think it sort of it depends on how you have it set up. Right. If you are at the point where you have said, okay, like not below with this word, and I'll send you that link.
00:38:45:20 - 00:39:11:06
Katie Lance
And if that link does, go to a landing page and they're putting if they are inputting their name and email, and you have a little box that like checks off that says, yes, I would like to receive this and yes, please send me additional information. Well, they have now opted in. Right. And so I think at that point it's perfectly fine to put them on some sort of funnel or, you know, maybe automation, but that doesn't also replace you following up.
00:39:11:06 - 00:39:29:08
Katie Lance
Just, you know, you seeing that this lead has come in and going, okay, having some parameters in your mind of like when a new lead comes in, when that, you know, lead comes in from Instagram, when am I going to email them? I like to say within 24 hours. So ideally within 24 hours just send them a personal email.
00:39:29:08 - 00:39:45:11
Katie Lance
He saw that you, you know, responded on Instagram. Great to connect with you. Let me know if you got that, PDF, okay. Or if you got the meeting invite. Okay. Just want to confirm the email. Please let me know. They respond back. Yep. Got it. Chris, thank you so much. Awesome. Cool. Well, I'm excited that you got that.
00:39:45:13 - 00:40:03:05
Katie Lance
You know, you kind of continue that conversation. And then I would also ping yourself to follow up again. So you know for example, for me I use a tool in my email called Boomerang which basically boomerangs emails back to me. So when I send a personal email, I will boomerang it back to myself maybe two weeks or a month later.
00:40:03:07 - 00:40:18:03
Katie Lance
Hey, I just want to touch base. You know? I know we chatted last month and you probably we get in some of our emails, just wanted to reach out personally, you know, and see how you're doing, see if if I can answer any questions. So again systemize it. But still there's nothing like you actually doing it.
00:40:18:05 - 00:40:18:21
Chris Whitling
Right.
00:40:18:23 - 00:40:33:00
Katie Lance
And and one of the quick thing I would I've also seen too, that works really well is not just the email but maybe do a little video where some people use bom bom, but you don't have to do that. You could just also send a quick little video like, hey, I, you know, got that your email. Thank you so much.
00:40:33:00 - 00:40:41:04
Katie Lance
Just want to put a face to an email. And so I appreciate it. Let me know if you any questions. So yeah, that's that's just one other one other thing too.
00:40:41:06 - 00:40:43:10
Chris Whitling
Sean, I know you have a question. You want to, tag in here?
00:40:43:12 - 00:40:52:14
Sean McGuire
I do have a question. And it's going back to the AI stuff. Do you think AI has changed how people approach or communicate through social media?
00:40:52:16 - 00:41:09:07
Katie Lance
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think a lot of people are just blindly using ChatGPT, to be honest with you. I think a lot of people are doing that just especially for their captions that are there. I think a lot of people are using it just like, hey, I need five Instagram captions or I have a post about my listing.
00:41:09:07 - 00:41:30:02
Katie Lance
Here's some information. Can you write a caption? And then they're just like copying and pasting. I would guess for a lot of agents, that's exactly what they're doing. You know, and obviously there's a multitude of issues with that. I mean, including like fair housing and just making sure it's accurate and all that good stuff. But, you know, and I feel like I'm sort of being a dead horse, but you really do have to read it over.
00:41:30:02 - 00:41:49:09
Katie Lance
You really do have to edit it. You really do have to add your own personality. And I think it's also becoming I almost feel like the pendulum has shifted because you can really tell when someone's not using it either, because there's some spelling errors. I mean, sometimes, to be honest, sometimes I keep the spelling error in because I want to like, prove like, I really wrote this, you know, this.
00:41:49:12 - 00:42:12:23
Katie Lance
That's an AI. So, yeah, I don't know, I don't even I feel like sometimes in comments I'm like, that comment was definitely not you. That was like a chatroulette thing. So I just think our skepticism level has sort of. And maybe it's because I'm in it all the time, and maybe people aren't as, aware of it as I am, but I'm in there all the time and I'm seeing it.
00:42:12:23 - 00:42:25:16
Chris Whitling
So it is kind of funny to think that the occasional typo is actually an advantage, because it gives you away as human. Yeah.
00:42:25:18 - 00:42:34:02
Katie Lance
Exactly. Exactly. It's like, now are we all going to be survey like, oh, where can I make a typo? When I put a random period where there shouldn't be?
00:42:34:04 - 00:42:38:10
Chris Whitling
It's like, you know what, I take it back, type on your phone and turn off autocorrect.
00:42:38:12 - 00:42:43:22
Katie Lance
Yeah. And that'll be the next advice, right? 2027 marketing plan, right?
00:42:43:22 - 00:42:48:08
Chris Whitling
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Exactly how to give yourself away as human.
00:42:48:10 - 00:42:49:05
Katie Lance
Exactly.
00:42:49:05 - 00:42:55:04
Sean McGuire
And then I have one more question. Yeah. Sort of about captions and stuff. Do you think emojis matter?
00:42:55:08 - 00:43:16:22
Katie Lance
I think they help. Yeah. I think it's like anything, it's like too much of a good thing. It's also sort of an AI indicator. If there's a gazillion emojis, it sort of feels like I, but I think emojis help kind of evoke an emotion. It's very similar to texting, you know, you text without an emoji or you just text with a period.
00:43:16:22 - 00:43:31:15
Katie Lance
You know, there's this feeling of like, oh my gosh, is this mad at me? Like, did I do something like this again? I'm just gonna throw in an emoji to make sure we, like, lighten the mood a little bit. So I kind of feel the same way with social media. I think, you know, sprinkle it in. I do that in my content too.
00:43:31:17 - 00:43:49:13
Katie Lance
I also think too, you have to again think of how people are consuming your content. Right? So like if I'm looking at a social media caption, I'm not just going to write one big block of text, I kind of like to break it up. I might use emojis to kind of like, you know, list things out. So yeah, I think sparingly.
00:43:49:15 - 00:44:10:18
Katie Lance
I also think sparingly for emails, sparingly with subject lines if I want, if I'm using building my database and I'm using email marketing, an emoji can help stand out. I mean, again, don't be obnoxious about it, but, you know, sprinkling it in strategically, I think makes a difference right now. I do like I do like emojis. But not too many.
00:44:10:20 - 00:44:27:07
Katie Lance
I also think emojis can help brand you like my brand. Colors are like red, teal and yellow. So I use those like three hearts quite a bit. And sort of it's not my logo, but obviously. But it's sort of my brand colors and I think you can kind of pick and choose certain ones that maybe kind of go with your vibe or your personality.
00:44:27:09 - 00:44:30:05
Chris Whitling
All right, Katie, this has been awesome. Where can people find you?
00:44:30:06 - 00:44:47:22
Katie Lance
The best place for people to find me, honestly, is my website. So Katie lance.com ktla, nc.com. We have a ton of free resources you can find out of our Get Social Support Academy. We work with hundreds of real estate agents all over the world. You can find out about your book, me as a speaker, all that good stuff.
00:44:48:00 - 00:44:59:12
Katie Lance
And also, I would love to connect with you on social. I'm at Katie Lands basically everywhere. So if you're watching us, send me a DM. Say, hey, I saw you on the show, would love to connect. And, yeah, it was just. This has been awesome. So thank you so much for having me.
00:44:59:13 - 00:45:08:19
Chris Whitling
Yeah, this is an excellent conversation. All right, everyone, if you have any questions, definitely. You know, leave, leave comments down below. Give us a like and subscribe and, we'll catch you next time.