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The RIOS (for a Racially-just Inclusive Open STEM Education) Institute presents an interview podcast where Dr. Bryan Dewsbury of the Science Education And Society (SEAS) lab converses with individuals who do social justice work in science education and education in general. We hope people enjoy the conversation itself, and consider new ways in which education can be transformative whatever your situation may be.
Welcome back. Well, this is episode three season two episode three. Alright. Lot of numbers in here and sometimes I get turned around but you know thank you all for being on this journey with us. Sam and I are having so much fun.
Bryan Dewsbury:You know, we were just reflecting off camera for a second day about you know, some of these interviews happened several months ago and and, you know, you know, when we're listening listening to it and doing a kind of post production, remember the context of that and and, you know, I hope you feel the joy we feel when we talking to these people and we hope you feel like you're sitting in a coffee shop somewhere just listening to us you know do the right things are about listening and letting people kind of tell what their experiences have been. I mean, albeit around the theme of education, education can be a place that can thrive. How's it been for you, Segef?
Segev Amasay:It's been it's been quite the experience. Like you said, I was reflecting, you know, a little bit about that episode and how we filmed it in July.
Bryan Dewsbury:Yeah. You mean to, like, today's episode. Right? Yes. Yeah.
Bryan Dewsbury:Yeah. Yeah. Of course. But you just said that episode as if it's some random thing. Okay.
Bryan Dewsbury:Yeah. So it it was in July. Yeah.
Segev Amasay:July 2024. I end up in Nassau Nassau
Bryan Dewsbury:in the
Segev Amasay:Commonwealth of the Bahamas for Yeah. Yeah. All the listeners over there who are probably gonna put our heads on a on a spike for not saying the the The Bahamas and not just Bahamas. Mhmm. But I I really enjoyed my time there.
Segev Amasay:You know, it really brought back a lot of memories about how how Haiti and the place I used to go through was structured. But, you know, just normal, like, really really insightful experience.
Bryan Dewsbury:Yeah. I mean, and and and that's the thing I hope you get from today's episode. So, we had the pleasure of talking to Kimberly Miners, longtime educator in the Commonwealth of the Bahamas. I I think from this conversation and to the extent it's somewhat indicative of how people are thinking about some of these same questions that form the theme of this podcast in different national contexts. You know, both Seyyav and I are from The Caribbean and and from islands and, you know, from developing countries.
Bryan Dewsbury:So we resonated with this a lot and I think it we resonated even more because we were physically there in The Bahamas talking to Kimberley miners. It's a beautiful country and these are two islands we've been to. Welcome to knowledge unbound. My name is Brian Dewsbury. We are funded by the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation.
Bryan Dewsbury:We hope you thoroughly enjoy today's conversation. See you at the end. So what I do, I don't like to do the whole read your resume thing. Right? Because this podcast is really about the human story and and what your experience has been and and how it impacts the way you think about education.
Bryan Dewsbury:So so with that in mind, could you introduce yourself to the audience and particularly with your history and education?
Kimberley Minors:Absolutely. I am from the Commonwealth Of The Bahamas. Short name, The Bahamas, so thank you for getting that right. And I've been an educator since I well, I started my training at 16 in the College of the Bahamas. So I trained there, then I went and I taught for ten years in the Bahamas government system, which I absolutely love.
Kimberley Minors:Mhmm. And I was one of those persons who saw myself as being an educator for the rest of my life. There was no plan B. And I really mean that. I was passionate about education and then my voice started giving me problems and the doctor said to me, You're either going to lose it or you have to get out of it if you want to preserve it.
Kimberley Minors:And like I said, there was no plan B. So, the ten years that I taught, I loved every single year of my teaching. And it's unfortunate sometimes when I talk to younger teachers and, Oh, do you enjoy teaching? It's almost as if they expect me to expect them to say, No, I don't really I was not that teacher. I was always excited about education.
Kimberley Minors:Education in The Bahamas as well, because it gave me an opportunity to bring to I and only taught in the government system. I promised myself that I would never teach in a private system. Sorry, private school teachers. We love you too. You're important.
Kimberley Minors:But I felt I was given over to government school kids because I wanted to not just give them and interesting, Brian, I started off in language arts. So, when I went to the University College of the Bahamas, I did language arts. So, I have an associate's degree in language arts. I am teacher certified. But I also loved math.
Kimberley Minors:My bachelor's degree is actually in mathematics, which I absolutely loved as well. But I wanted to give students more than just the math and the language arts. And I try to bring into my classroom just a sense of your purpose, your identity. Want you to think beyond the knowledge I'm giving you because the knowledge I'm giving you, you can find it in a book. And these days, you can find it in Google.
Kimberley Minors:Google is one of my best friends, I tell you. My son and I had a conversation this morning and I asked him a question and he didn't have the answer. I said, Go and ask Google. So, me, has always been, or schooling, education has always been beyond just the math, you know, the reading, writing, arithmetic, the three R's, but how do I help my students to think about life and who they are and their purpose? And so, I wanted to be teaching forever and kind of bringing that to the students of The Bahamas.
Kimberley Minors:And my thing always was too, I didn't want to teach any place else except the Commonwealth of the Bahamas.
Bryan Dewsbury:So what was the thing inside you that made you decide like it had to be government schools?
Kimberley Minors:Because I was a product of the government schools.
Bryan Dewsbury:Okay.
Kimberley Minors:And fortunately, now, I did a lot of reading when I was a child. And so, standard English, because I read a lot, standard English became it's not my first language. I'm a Bahamian, so dialect is my first language. I can talk dialect with best of them. But I started reading a lot and developing good skills in standard English.
Bryan Dewsbury:Mhmm.
Kimberley Minors:And I went to the public system.
Bryan Dewsbury:Mhmm.
Kimberley Minors:People always assume, though, that I went to a private school because my English was standard.
Bryan Dewsbury:So was there a stereotype associated with Absolutely. Does that still exist?
Kimberley Minors:And that still exists.
Bryan Dewsbury:Okay.
Kimberley Minors:I have a daughter who graduated from a public school, and she actually went into medicine. And she said to me, Mom, one of my professors said today when she went to university, he was surprised that I graduated from a public school. And mind you, it doesn't have to be that way because we do develop good students out of the public school. But I determined. I wanted to be one of those persons who invested in public school kids because people invested in me.
Bryan Dewsbury:Right.
Kimberley Minors:And you know, often that's how it happens. Right? You get something from something and then you want to give back in the same way to others.
Bryan Dewsbury:Right. So where was where was that that ten years? Where was that ten years located?
Kimberley Minors:Well, fortunately, it was in three different schools. I started off
Bryan Dewsbury:Why was that fortunate?
Kimberley Minors:Because I got different experiences. No, seriously, I got to teach on the family island.
Bryan Dewsbury:Uh-huh.
Kimberley Minors:You know, New Providence is the capital island. And then we have Grand Bahamas, kind of like the second major island. And then we have a grouping of islands called family islands.
Bryan Dewsbury:Okay. I just wanna orient our our listeners because I know I didn't realize how many islands Yep. The Bahamas. So I think 707
Kimberley Minors:island, 100 islands
Bryan Dewsbury:rocked 19 are the Inhabited. Are inhabited. Right? So I mean, so 19 inhabited islands. Mhmm.
Bryan Dewsbury:Still a lot. Right? Yes. So, dear. So when you talk about three, the family of islands, that's sort of the other six, eight, 17 or whatever.
Kimberley Minors:Right. Well, I taught in one family island, which was Exuma.
Bryan Dewsbury:Uh-huh.
Kimberley Minors:That was my first teaching experience. I was green. I had stars in my eyes about the world, but it was a good experience because it was kind of like small town, sleepy town kind of experience. Met some really good foreign teachers there who taught me how to play bridge, contract bridge, one of the best things that happened to me in Exuma. So, it was my first teaching experience and I loved it.
Kimberley Minors:Loved the just the laid back atmosphere there. And then I returned to the capital Mhmm. And I taught in two high schools here.
Bryan Dewsbury:Okay. Our capital would Nassau.
Kimberley Minors:In Nassau. Yes.
Bryan Dewsbury:So so you said there were some foreigners there. Was that from did it come specifically to teach?
Kimberley Minors:Or They came specifically to teach. Yes. And that's what happens in The Bahamas. Because we always can't staff our schools with locals. We have a lot of foreign teachers.
Kimberley Minors:Teachers come in. Back then, that would have been thirty some years ago, a lot of our teachers came from Britain.
Bryan Dewsbury:Right.
Kimberley Minors:Some came from Canada, The US. We get a lot from The Caribbean these days. Okay. We're getting teachers now from Cuba. Okay.
Kimberley Minors:Especially to teach things like Spanish because there's some relationship there. But these teachers I'm thinking about in particular were from The UK. Right. And I loved it because I got friends who were teaching with me, but then they also taught me how to play bridge. And that was one of the things that I say when I retire, I don't mind doing two things in my retirement: teaching a little class somewhere, but also playing bridge.
Bryan Dewsbury:Yeah. You know, one of the interesting things that that I've been I mean, grappling is a strong word, but just, you know, coming to terms with over the last few years, I've been here in the in The Bahamas. I've you know, as you know, I've I was just in Abaco and now now in now in Nassau is this this commonality throughout the Caribbean of of being formed British colonies and the legacies of of being colonized in terms of the systems that they have left and the the structure of the school structure of the government. And and to some extent, who comes here, right, to visit and to to to visit and to maybe even work sometimes. But then also, the the uniqueness of the culture that has evolved from the the slaves that were brought here against their will and and, you know, other migrants and and just how that has tuned into something uniquely Trinidadian in my case or uniquely Bahamian in your case.
Bryan Dewsbury:And but also with that, right, the contemporary, the new issues that evolve with the new migration patterns. So I know there's a lot of Haitian immigrants. There's some Jamaican immigrants. Talk to us a little bit about that, but particularly how you saw it, to the extent you saw how it played out in the classroom or in the schools. Or maybe a better way to put that question is the school's responsibility to respond to a different social structure because of the immigration pattern.
Kimberley Minors:Right. So when I was a student in school, it was not unusual for me to see white Brits or white Canadians. And there was no mystery to it. And I'll tell you this, my first subject I taught was language arts. I was inspired by a British teacher who taught me how to love Shakespeare, believe it or not.
Kimberley Minors:And I actually wanted to teach language arts because I wanted to teach Shakespeare. Okay. And so now High thee hither. Yes.
Bryan Dewsbury:I remember that one line.
Kimberley Minors:She brought me back to life. I loved literature because of her. So now, I'm in the classroom teaching after going through the College of Bahamas then. And I'm dealing with students. Like, when I was in Exuma, they were mostly Bahamian students.
Bryan Dewsbury:Okay.
Kimberley Minors:You didn't get a whole lot of non Bahamians in Exuma that I taught. When I moved to the capital, there's mixing now of Bahamians and, you know, Haitian or kids of Haitian descent.
Bryan Dewsbury:Okay.
Kimberley Minors:And one of the things I noticed with those kids of Haitian descent that I found very interesting was that oftentimes, on report card day, one of my challenges as a public school teacher was getting parents to understand you are first responsible for your child's education. And that's one of the greatest challenges in the public school. Once the child enters the public school, parents took their hands off the education of Whatever their the teacher did was well done as far as they were concerned. And the government or the schools had to force parents to collect report cards by saying, If you don't collect your report card for your child, the child gets sent home. But in the Haitian community, with those kids, we always expected to see those Haitian parents coming for their children's report cards.
Kimberley Minors:And oftentimes, the child is sitting next to the parent and they are translating because the parent can't speak English. But that is something that I always remember from my teaching days. On report card day, most of the Haitian parents are going to show up for their children. So, do have challenges in our education. I think a lot of it is more perceived than real.
Kimberley Minors:That's not real. I really, really believe that. I think at the core of who we are as Bahamian, you know, I'm generalizing here, I think Bahamians are accepting.
Bryan Dewsbury:I
Kimberley Minors:think we have a very accepting culture. I think there's more hype around the way the relationships play out than reality. And as a teacher, nobody really cared. I can guarantee you that most Bohemian teachers are the same way. When you're teaching, you're teaching.
Kimberley Minors:You're not looking at the last name to say, I'm going to teach to this child who has a more Bohemian last name versus this child.
Bryan Dewsbury:Right, you don't take a deficit approach.
Kimberley Minors:No, I don't think we do. Even though there had been a trend, and it may still exist, where some Haitian parents, they were changing the last names of children because they didn't want it to be known that, you know, my child if you're a Jean or a Joseph, oftentimes, it may be assumed.
Bryan Dewsbury:Yeah. But it's so it's so interesting because and this is maybe part of the benefits. One of the things I love about, not just this podcast, but the privilege to travel and and understand the human story just around the world, to be honest. Right? Because, like, in in the American context, which I guess I'm an immigrant.
Bryan Dewsbury:Now, I guess I am an immigrant as well. A lot of the the the people understand that mostly of the South American immigration, some Caribbean immigration. And what you just described is something that happens a lot happened. I don't know if it still happens in California, right, where Mexican immigrants would anglicize their last name. So Juan became John, and Pedro became Peter, right, in order to not highlight, right, that you were this.
Bryan Dewsbury:And so this, it kind of on of the same mindset is if this if being identified in this group comes with a stigma and then denies you certain services or or or or force you to get treated a certain way, then it's best to blend in as much as possible. And I guess the research in me just wonders, what does this do for questions around identity, how you see yourself? Do you kind of keep that Haitian within you while everybody else calls you Johnson? Don't know. That's a rabbit hole.
Bryan Dewsbury:It is, and
Kimberley Minors:it's actually a question, I think, for them and parents to kind of grapple with. Because at the end of the day, as far as I am concerned, and this is the way I raise my children, for instance, I have three kids. Really, really pleased that God has blessed me with three. Wish I had more Brian on it. I would have been that old woman who lived in the Shoe very, very happily.
Bryan Dewsbury:My bank account disagrees.
Kimberley Minors:But I am thankful for the kids that I do have, but I do try to teach them that you are who you are. And if you live your life trying to be someone else, it's going to catch up with you and not in a good way. Maybe there's something we need to look around. Because like I said, in education, I tried not just to teach the math and the language arts. I did try to tap in to more of the life skills with my students.
Kimberley Minors:And maybe we need to have more conversations around when we are training kids, It's, you know, to helping them to tap into their identities. It's okay to be who you are.
Bryan Dewsbury:Right.
Kimberley Minors:Because actually, at the end of the day, it's the easiest person to be, is who you are. And just allow us to kind of hone that in ways that may make society more profitable as far as you were concerned. So maybe we need more conversations around that at an earlier age. I know there was a program in some schools called Character Counts. I know it wasn't some schools that I was in and didn't delve into it too much, but maybe a part of the character count curriculum could be around teaching kids that it's okay to be who you are.
Kimberley Minors:Yeah.
Bryan Dewsbury:So after you you after you left teaching, unfortunately, because of your voice challenges, in what ways were you able to stay connected to education?
Kimberley Minors:Very deliberately, in one sense. Uh-huh. Because there's something about being around teachers, around students that really excite me. I'm not jiving you. I get excited when I walk on school campuses, get excited when I train teachers.
Kimberley Minors:And so, I was a part of different projects with the Ministry of Education where I did train teachers. I was a part of a project with Promethean, for instance,
Bryan Dewsbury:where we Who's brought Promethean?
Kimberley Minors:Promethean is an education solution company.
Bryan Dewsbury:Okay.
Kimberley Minors:You may have heard of the Promethean board, for instance. That interaction between students and learning on a whiteboard.
Bryan Dewsbury:Oh, yeah, yeah,
Kimberley Minors:And things like that. But we did a project with the Bahamas Ministry of Education and I was fortunate enough to get the contract as a local bring the solution for The Bahamas. And it excited me just to be able to do the training. For a time as well, I sold educational software. Because again, it gave me a chance to be in the schools and this is when education, technology and education was just becoming a thing.
Kimberley Minors:I was able to do, to be involved in schools that way. And of course, my kids were in school. So, I'll be honest with you, Brian, sometimes the schools were happy when I left. It was like, Do not let the door close, you know, slam on you on your way out. But I enjoyed being a part of my children's school because it it kinda connected me
Bryan Dewsbury:to Right.
Kimberley Minors:To education as well.
Bryan Dewsbury:Okay. Yeah. I mean, I was you know, one concept of what education that I love is sometimes when people think of you as an educator or a teacher, the first thing they think of is, oh, what's the class you teach or what subject you teach? And I you know, my argument is, you know, education is every way. Mhmm.
Bryan Dewsbury:Every interaction that results in learning results in growth and possibility. As education, you have to kinda broaden your mindset outside of credit hours and curriculum. And and not to say those things aren't important, but but it limits the possibilities that are available to you if you only think of it as that.
Kimberley Minors:100% agree. Can I say on that point, Yeah, As a parent, I and again, one of the things that really saddened me in the Bahamas Public School is we couldn't get parents to take ownership of their children's education? And so, I would love parents to start thinking of themselves as the first educators for their children. We give a lot of I don't know the way it is in Trinidad or even in The United States, but we give up so much authority to the school system instead of keeping engaged. So, I would love to see a program for parents that say, listen, you are responsible for your child's education and make sure you're more We're here to support that.
Kimberley Minors:Make sure you're more engaged in what's happening in the schools. Make sure it supports the values that you want your children to know. So a class for parents as your child's first educator, I would love to see that.
Bryan Dewsbury:Yeah. I I mean, I was certainly was blessed in my own life. Like, you know, my parents didn't, you know, complete college degrees, but they they probably fall along the lines of some of the parents you described earlier in that. Even if I mean, they they understood most, I guess, but maybe not necessarily technical aspects of my work, but they understood what had to get done. Right?
Bryan Dewsbury:Like, so they they were checking in. They were you know, I mean, if things were kinda going left, know, pulling aside and but, of course, now my children, I mean, they practically come home to university. Right? That is a professor, so I could offer things that you might experience. Let's pivot a little bit to so I don't remember all the details of it.
Bryan Dewsbury:So there's a project twenty forty that The Bahamas has developed that is kind of a subset of the United Nations Sustainable Development Goals. And I mean, to just summarize a little bit here, a big part of it is to enhance public awareness of the blue economy. Right? So Bahamas has all these rich resources. It's beautiful ocean.
Bryan Dewsbury:Even the name Bahamas, I believe, means shallow water. I think Bahama is is what it kinda came from. And just stereotypically, I think most people who when they think of The Bahamas, what they think of is is the beautiful beaches and and the sand say that again?
Kimberley Minors:Sun sun.
Bryan Dewsbury:Sun, sand, and sea. Right? Three s's. And I think I read somewhere that to the point where the the tourism contributes, I think, 65¢ to every dollar, right, of the of the local economy. So it's a big it's a big contributor.
Bryan Dewsbury:But then I also was told that some 67 percent of Bahamian youth can swim. Right? So Yeah. So but but here's here's the thing. Okay.
Bryan Dewsbury:I'm saying this in an incredulous way, but I'm actually not surprised just because and I don't know the number in Trinidad, but I know that for most I hope I'm not speaking out of turn here, but swimming wasn't part of the curriculum when I was in school. Right? My mom sent us to learn to swim. And I think a lot of people, like, especially in The US, I hate to say it, but all you're from the island, obviously, you could swim. Well, no.
Bryan Dewsbury:We went to the water. That's the same thing as So being able to I'm curious to hear your view on this relationship between the Bahamians, the marine resources, what you think they know of it, don't know of it, what are barriers to perhaps a deeper awareness of what these marine resources are bringing and can bring going forward beyond tourism. Right? And not even just, like, in those dollars and cents. But but just like the this is ours.
Bryan Dewsbury:Right? There's beauty in here. There's complexity in this in this environment that that needs to be taught and engaged with. You know, what is it in the curriculum? If it's not in curriculum, if it's is it sort of after school programs?
Bryan Dewsbury:Is there are there class differences in who accesses I know access is a broad word, but who really gets excited about being new? I think you know where I'm going with I I do. So you can take this however you want.
Kimberley Minors:You know, unfortunately, twelve years of schooling I had, there was absolutely no information on anything that had to do with our marine. And like you say, most people, even in New Providence, who know how to swim, they went to swim lessons they went to schools, and sometimes private schools, where they were taught to swim. Or they went to one of those family islands and during the summer, someone may have thrown them overboard, they had to, like, sink sink
Bryan Dewsbury:or swim. Was that
Kimberley Minors:the class? That that happens as well. So I think The Bahamas is only 51 years old as a nation.
Bryan Dewsbury:Right. 1973, I believe.
Kimberley Minors:1973, July 10. And so we're only 51. So we're still young as a nation, if you really think about it. I mean, I'm just a few years older than the country. Oh, right.
Kimberley Minors:Yeah. I would consider myself. Yeah. Would yeah. You You would about it.
Kimberley Minors:So think in terms of years and just being new, just being still young, there's a lot of things that need to be developed where we begin to look now at ourselves as a country and how do we groom Bahamians to understand what it is that we do have. But you know what I believe, Brian? I believe that there is almost like a deliberate effort by forces unknown for us not to know more about our land and our resources. Because the more we know, the more empowered that we are, then the less foreign investment. And I really believe this.
Kimberley Minors:We may be less interested in nothing involved with no problem with foreigners. My husband, by the way, is a foreigner, so you know I have no issues with foreigners in The Bahamas. But I think there needs to be a deliberate effort to bohemianize even more of our curriculum in terms of what really is this country about. Those 19 islands each have different resources. There are different things about these islands.
Kimberley Minors:There are different resources on these islands that we don't know about. I did not travel, really, even as a Bahamian until, for me, you know, I was poor growing up. I didn't know about even outer islands until I was much older because in school, I didn't get that this is what your country is about. I thought that we were a Caribbean country for a very long time. We're not in The Caribbean.
Kimberley Minors:Did you know that? Knew that. Knew that later on. Yeah. I knew that much later in my life.
Kimberley Minors:Now culturally, we identify with The Caribbean. We're proud to be a part of The Caribbean. You know, we have the sporting. One of these years, we're gonna beat Jamaica in Carrifter. So we're sporting.
Bryan Dewsbury:Is that is that your most of your fiercest rival?
Kimberley Minors:For for track and field. For track
Bryan Dewsbury:and field.
Kimberley Minors:We're on top for swimming. I'm very proud to say that. Uh-huh. But there are some things that I did not know about The Bahamas until I was an adult. And I was reading these things, even online in some instances.
Kimberley Minors:So I do believe that there needs to be an overhaul of our curriculum, not by politicians, but by educators who understand, or people. You know, there needs to be more of a broad based conversation. And I know they attempted it before. I've heard about these initiatives. But people like Erin Johnson, who's a part of this project to bring more awareness to the ecosystem, they need to contribute more to conversations about what is in there, in our waters, so that we can appreciate it more.
Kimberley Minors:Do you know I learned that one of the most photographed places from space Do you know where that place is? One of the most photographed places?
Bryan Dewsbury:I'm assuming one of the 19 islands.
Kimberley Minors:One of the 19 islands, the Exomas. And you can Google that. I learned that on Google, actually, that astronauts such as Neil Armstrong live, love to photograph the waters, the beautiful Just play of because
Bryan Dewsbury:the clarity
Kimberley Minors:of Just because of the clarity of it. Never heard that in school. So, I do think there needs to be an overhaul of our educational system. Yeah, tourism has carried us well initially out of the gate. Now, we need to develop more of those resources.
Kimberley Minors:And we need to develop more. You talk about the carbon credits and all the rest of it. I'm not as knowledgeable on that. But what speaks to me is that there are so many untapped resources in this country that we as locals or residents, and I'm not just saying citizens, but there are people who come here and invest in this country and they take up residency because they love the land, that I think there could be more of a deliberate effort to educate us on Right. The the beyond the sand, sea, and the sun.
Kimberley Minors:Yeah. Even though we're grateful for that, that has helped as well.
Bryan Dewsbury:I know, man. And I I know it's a struggle, and I'm I'm speaking as somebody who comes from a country that does rely some on tourism, maybe not as much as Bahamas. I mean, Tobago, I think, versus two islands, as you know, And Tobago is is more much more tourism. But tourism is like a cash 22. Right?
Bryan Dewsbury:Because on one hand, the economy is the economy. Right? I mean, that's what keeps the lights on and and and, you know, keeps the people kind of financially together. But at the same time, almost for it to work, it requires a kind of sterilized codification of what, you know, the essence of what The Bahamas is and what it looks like to the point where I wonder if it's if some of it is even unrecognizable to people who who are who are born and raised here. So you are you see why it needs to exist.
Bryan Dewsbury:Right? Because you you get a big cruise ship, and they all come on the sand and and that then trickles down to a whole bunch of stuff. But, you know, I I just wonder where's that sweet spot between that welcoming aspect to it, but also the investment in, you know, local knowledge of of what all these things really mean.
Kimberley Minors:There has been some attempt over the past several years at, you know, you call it religious tourism, for instance. Seriously, I've someone has coined the phrase religious tourism because I don't know if you know about The Bahamas, but we are considering, I put it in quotes, a Christian nation because of the way the preamble to our constitution was written. So there has been attempts to say, you know what? You want to come to a place where if you're a believer and you want to have these big conventions, The Bahamas is the place for it. And there's something in The Bahamas called sports tourism.
Kimberley Minors:We recently hosted the World Relays. Can you imagine? The small little island, twenty one one, the World Relays.
Bryan Dewsbury:In track and field?
Kimberley Minors:Absolutely. And so The United States qualified on our soil. I think there were like seven countries, I might be
Bryan Dewsbury:Oh, yeah.
Kimberley Minors:Around that qualified for the Olympics right here on Bahamian soil. So we because the weather is kind of good for us. And then flights, because we're so close to The United States, it's easier to access our islands. So, we do have some development beyond tourism. But I don't think that there's enough.
Kimberley Minors:I really don't. I think it's gonna take more of a beyond the government, I think in this country, we rely too heavily on the government. So I would like, for instance, you know, this podcast, I'm sure, is gonna go around the world. I would like the diaspora, those who are in The Bahamas, who are from The Bahamas, who have roots in The Bahamas, to think of kind of giving back. How do I now give back to a country that kind of gave me my foundation?
Kimberley Minors:Yeah. That helped me. If you are a black person in The Bahamas, you didn't grow up feeling black. You didn't grow up for a second feeling that I couldn't. Right.
Kimberley Minors:If you go beyond our shores and you are succeeding, because that actually does happen with with Bahamians. Think of giving back.
Bryan Dewsbury:Throughout The Caribbean.
Kimberley Minors:Yes. You are no. You are correct. It is it is throughout The Caribbean. Do you know who was the first Academy Award winner black person in The United States Of America?
Bryan Dewsbury:Sydney Poitier.
Kimberley Minors:Guess where Sydney Poitier is from? The Bahamas.
Bryan Dewsbury:I actually didn't know that.
Kimberley Minors:A lot of people did
Bryan Dewsbury:I did not know that. A lot of
Kimberley Minors:people don't
Bryan Dewsbury:know I think it was mentioned, but it didn't mean to slip my mind. But, yeah, I I I
Kimberley Minors:I think
Bryan Dewsbury:knew he was like, his heritage wasn't Absolutely. But I didn't know where.
Kimberley Minors:Was The Bahamas Cat Island. Cat Island. And so his foundation was laid in a country where, because of the color of his skin, he wasn't told he couldn't.
Bryan Dewsbury:Right.
Kimberley Minors:And I think if you read his autobiography, I've heard some of the stories he tells of going, for instance, to Florida for the first time and being treated like, you know, he ran there's a story of him going to deliver something to a home of a white person, and they told him all deliveries done in the back. He went to the front door because you're born in a country where you don't think just go and you deliver it to the front door. And that kind of was an experience. That's kind of apparently and and, you know, I hope I'm telling the story correctly. But apparently, they fared for Sidney's life because the Ku Klux Klan came was organizing against him, who is this black person
Bryan Dewsbury:So where where was
Kimberley Minors:that Terry thinks. This is this happened in Florida. Okay.
Bryan Dewsbury:And then Where where in Florida was he?
Kimberley Minors:No. I'm I think it's Miami again. I don't wanna misquote it. If we have someone who can Google
Bryan Dewsbury:that Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Kimberley Minors:We're right now. But I do know the incident happened. Mhmm. And he ended up in New York because his family fared for his life. Mhmm.
Kimberley Minors:And so they sent him to New York, and that's where his his love of acting and all the rest of that was actually born. Yeah. I'm learning how to read and and all the rest of it. And I love to see Sydney on the on the big screen. And he was very intentional, though, about the roles he played.
Bryan Dewsbury:Guess who's coming to dinner? Is that Chris or favorite?
Kimberley Minors:Want to play those traditional black roles. Yeah. Because remember Yeah. You know, you're from a country where you don't think black.
Bryan Dewsbury:Yeah.
Kimberley Minors:Yeah. You just think that you're a person who can. Yeah. Do you know, Brian, the first time I felt that someone was was reacting to me because I was black was in New England. Mhmm.
Kimberley Minors:I went on a retreat. I was 20, I had taught for one year, and I went on a retreat, a Christian counseling retreat it was called. And I remember going to this food store and resting my stuff on this counter. This little old white lady took up her stuff and looked at me in a particular way, and I knew she was reacting to me because I was black. I had some American white friends who were there with me, and when we went back, they were so scared.
Kimberley Minors:They were afraid that I was going to react to the way because they knew it. Everybody just knew instinctively that she was reacting to me because of the color of my skin. I grew up in a country where being black was never a thing. Because my prime minister was black.
Bryan Dewsbury:Right.
Kimberley Minors:Most of my teachers were black. The doctors, the lawyers, they were black. So I didn't even think about it.
Bryan Dewsbury:I joke with people that I I figured out I was black in America, and I had to learn to be black in America. I mean, and I do mean that you know, obviously, I knew I was black, but
Kimberley Minors:I understand.
Bryan Dewsbury:It wasn't the thing it wasn't the first thing that I was made aware of in any situation I was in, like, you know, like, 99% of the times. And so then your in group, like, my in group was was was being Trinidadian. Right? And that that was the thing that that really was first and foremost in my mind of how I would think of myself. And then I moved to Atlanta, Georgia in 1999, and all of a sudden, I'm in a whole different context.
Bryan Dewsbury:Right? And at 44, I have I now have the words to put to what I was experiencing.
Kimberley Minors:Right.
Bryan Dewsbury:But, you know, at the time, you know, when I had too many incidents like what you just described, and I remember the feeling that I had was confusion. Like, why are you like, what? It's exactly what I know. It's wanting to read it in a textbook. It's another thing to just actually have it play out in real time.
Bryan Dewsbury:Right. But the other side to that, though, and I think this is the point you're making earlier about the the need for people who have gone abroad to kind of come and give back is when I talk about inclusive classrooms and education as a possibility and all this stuff, I I am actually speaking about that not just from an intellectual standpoint, but from a I know what it feels like to just go to a classroom and be excited to do that work. Yep. Right? Not feel like if I belong, not, you know, worried if this campus only has, you know, 10% people of color, wonder how they will see, like, none of that.
Bryan Dewsbury:Right? They're with you. And, like, I know exactly that feeling. And so when when I'm trying to encourage people to think about their teaching, whatever context it is across The United States in particular, that that's where you want to be. That's how you want and it's not every teacher can kind of retransform American society by themselves to make that environment happen.
Bryan Dewsbury:But that's the goal we should be aspiring towards. Right? I absolutely agree with is yeah. It's huge.
Kimberley Minors:I agree with you. I actually did my so I started my I did got an associate's from the College of the Bahamas, and I got my bachelor's degree at Barrie University. Miami, Florida. Loved it. Loved the experience there.
Kimberley Minors:It's in Miami Shores, Florida. And like you said, it's almost as if people want me to think that I'm black. And they try to say things, because even some of my professors try to say things to make me aware of my blackness. But up here, it was like, okay, and? Okay, and?
Kimberley Minors:I know I'm black, but okay, and? Because by the time I went off to The United States, and you hear a lot about the racial tensions that's there, my identity was intact. Wasn't I was just a Bahamian. I was female. I'm a born again believer.
Kimberley Minors:I'm a teacher. I'm passionate about education. Because when I went to do my degree in math, I had already taught for six years.
Bryan Dewsbury:So, that
Kimberley Minors:actually brought a wealth of I was an older student. Because I taught for six years here first, and I needed two years to complete my master degree. So, I was an older student. I was, I think, 24 at the time, or 26 maybe. I think I was 26 or 27 at
Bryan Dewsbury:the Okay. Producer said he was 23. He's like, Older? What?
Kimberley Minors:I was an older student. I was an older student. But because my identity was intact and all the rest of it, I was not okay, I hear what you're saying that I'm black, but okay, and I'm here for an education because I'm looking forward to going back home and sowing more into those students. So, agree with you, even to the extent that when we think of education, as educators in particular, we need to get beyond the whole color thing. We have to stop seeing students as colors or race or even religion.
Kimberley Minors:We have to see students as opportunities. And that's it. That's it for me. Every child who's in front of me, I believe I've been gifted with an opportunity to sow something into this person, to let them know that, yeah, like I said, the three R's are important, but there's light beyond the three R's. To instill even with my kids, I do the very same thing, is to instill that the things that are really going to matter ten years from now, nobody's going to care if you got an A on your transcript.
Kimberley Minors:A's are important, but C's get degrees. Something I learned recently, that C's get degrees as well. You know a doctor who's operating on you? He might have gotten a C in this very same technique that he's doing. So, the things that are going to carry you are the soft skills.
Kimberley Minors:And so, as an educator, I was happy that I understood that very early on. I don't know where it came from. So, I was happy I understood that. And I believe that some of my students are better for the fact that it wasn't just about those As and Bs or not to get the F, but it's about the things that are going to make you more successful and more productive for your family, for your society, for your neighborhood, all the rest of that.
Bryan Dewsbury:Yeah. Well, I'm excited. So my program is beginning, hopefully a long, fruitful partnership with the Ministry of Education to look at some aspects of the marine curriculum led by the future Doctor. Aaron Johnson. So we're pretty excited about that.
Bryan Dewsbury:And I think one of the biggest aspects of this we've enjoyed at least so far is just getting to learn, getting to learn about how humanity unfolds in the classrooms here in Bahamas across at least a couple islands for now. I'll get you out of here on this one. As we, you know, enter into this project, into this partnership Mhmm. And it's a it's a curriculum development project. Right?
Bryan Dewsbury:So what are some of the maybe main things you would hope, a, that we accomplish, but also, b, that we learn as we hope to transform the way students are taught about the marine environment?
Kimberley Minors:Well, I'll tell you this. First of all, you know, I've known you for how long? We've been together for five days. Feels longer, right?
Bryan Dewsbury:I hope that's a good thing.
Kimberley Minors:But I want to compliment you, I mean, very sincerely, on the way you approach to this, you and your team. You and your tech guy. I'm sure your audience know him.
Bryan Dewsbury:Sigil, I'm a say.
Kimberley Minors:But what I love about it is you both came to this country and you made no assumptions. You asked questions. You came to learn, to listen, to grow. And you did well with pivoting. And I said to you earlier today is that you listened.
Kimberley Minors:And I noticed that you didn't just listen so that you got your chance to speak. We talked about that. But I felt as if you listened so that you can have intelligent and meaningful conversations. So, I appreciate that about you and I want to thank you for that. I watched you in Abaco among the most of them are expats in Abaco, right?
Kimberley Minors:So, watched you among them and you're comfort level then. Watched you among here in New Providence. Nassau is the capital of New Providence. It's the island, just saying. But I watched you among the educators in New Providence in that same sense of, I am here to listen and to learn.
Kimberley Minors:I'm going to give some pushback. I'm going to ask my questions. But it wasn't canned. So I appreciated that. What I want to see from this project is Bahamians understanding the wealth of resources we have right here in this country.
Kimberley Minors:That we don't have to go far and wide, because guess what's happening, Brian? Friends and I always say this, Only the Bahamians want to be in The Bahamas because everybody else wants to be in The Bahamas. So, I think this gives an opportunity for locals, children who are in the schooling systems, because we're doing it in both the private and the public schools, that's so important to understand that we have a wealth of knowledge right here in this country. And I would say that, because I know your podcast is beyond The Bahamas, but I would say that to wherever this podcast is heard, that learn the resource, learn what's unique and good about where you live. You're there for a purpose.
Kimberley Minors:You were placed there for a purpose. And there's some good things happening right there, right under your nose. So, I'm hoping that what you're doing is we're surrounded by water. You know, 700 islands, rocks and cays surrounded by water. Why doesn't every Bahamian know how to swim?
Kimberley Minors:Why doesn't every Bahamian understand about the microbes and the beautiful ecosystems? People come to this country
Bryan Dewsbury:just to go Hive scuba high top money to
Kimberley Minors:Can you imagine that? You know, had a friend who came here. He worked for the US embassy, and we developed a friendship. When he left, he would say to me, Kim, you live on an exotic island, right? Never thought about it that way.
Kimberley Minors:Just complaining about was
Bryan Dewsbury:just home. It was just home.
Kimberley Minors:Complaining about the government is doing this, and it's like, you know what, you're right. But what I've learned is that wherever you are in the world, there's something special about where you're from. You just got to take the time to notice. Stop complaining about what the government is or isn't That's one of the things I need to stop doing. And just kind of take a moment to notice.
Kimberley Minors:And I want to talk to educators as well and just encourage us. We have such a gift when those students are in front of us. I really believe that we have such an opportunity. You know, they say those who can do and those who can't teach. You've heard that before?
Bryan Dewsbury:Oh, yeah. Unfortunately, I have.
Kimberley Minors:I think
Bryan Dewsbury:I've those seen it like operationalizing how people treat teachers as well, which is sad.
Kimberley Minors:That is actually unfortunate, but I believe that I know we'd like to see it in our paychecks, you know, because we are the ones who teach the doctors and we teach the lawyers and all the rest of it. But I do believe that we have a unique opportunity as teachers. We have gifts in front of us that we can mold and not make it about what the culture is saying, but making it about understand what is it that I can impart to the student that's going to help him to be more productive. Yeah, you need to get the curriculum down, you know, that's what they pay us for. Right.
Kimberley Minors:But we also get kind of life changing opportunities as well. You know, as a teacher, I never went into the staff room during the break and lunch times. You know where I was? Where? I was in my classroom talking to my students.
Bryan Dewsbury:Yeah, it was
Kimberley Minors:And it's not as if I didn't want to hang out with my colleagues, but I wanted to use the opportunities as well, just to sow as much as I could into my students. Okay. I'm grateful for my ten years. Yeah. I miss it.
Bryan Dewsbury:I I feel I feel I feel like a wave of manage magic wand and get you back in there. But with you know, like you said earlier, education happens everywhere. Yes. And, you know, you're you're you're called to do that work in different ways. It doesn't necessarily have to be classroom.
Bryan Dewsbury:I just wanna say thank you for just being so welcome in allowing our team to come here and learn and and just continue to be in community with the teachers here and just just really looking forward to that partnership going forward. And thanks thanks for spending an hour with us on Knowledge Unbound.
Kimberley Minors:Well, I love it, and I'm looking forward to getting my Knowledge Unbound. Tea mug, you guys
Bryan Dewsbury:get me. Yeah. Finally all good. I have tea.
Kimberley Minors:That's a British that's a British in me. I don't mind coffee, but I love tea.
Bryan Dewsbury:So I look forward to receiving making some merchandise suggestion too.
Kimberley Minors:Yes. So I look forward to receiving my my mug in the mail.
Bryan Dewsbury:Kimberly Miners, thank you so much.
Kimberley Minors:Thank you for having me.
Bryan Dewsbury:Allergen Bound is brought to you by the RIOS Institute for a racially just inclusive open stem medication. We are generously funded by the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation. Najan Brown is produced as always by mister Segev Amazai.
Segev Amasay:And we're still going global.
Bryan Dewsbury:And we are still going global. Well, speaking of going global, how was The Bahamas when we filmed this live? How was that? Do you I mean, I know the answer, but I want the audience to know how nice it was being there doing this.
Segev Amasay:As I mentioned in the beginning of, this episode, you know, coming back to the islands after quite a bit of time is it definitely felt refreshing. It kind of felt like home away from home, not mentioning the fact that there are several Haitians that have moved to The Bahamas. And I did overhear a couple of them speaking Creole, so
Kimberley Minors:I was like,
Segev Amasay:Definitely definitely home away from
Bryan Dewsbury:home when you think about it. You could just stay. Nobody would even notice. Right? Like, just
Segev Amasay:The same way I stay the the same way that I just, you know, answer all these spaces, and I hear someone mention that they're Haitian, you know.
Bryan Dewsbury:Yeah. Yeah.
Segev Amasay:Yeah. When the time is right,
Bryan Dewsbury:I drop in the Creole.
Kimberley Minors:You know
Bryan Dewsbury:what to code switch. Yeah.
Segev Amasay:And then mind blown. It happened to me pretty recently,
Bryan Dewsbury:come to think of it. I I I like the fact. So in this episode, you know, Kim talked a lot about, you know, teachers and who teaches. You know, she mentioned the fact that they import a lot of teachers. One of the thing that was really special when we visited The Bahamas, especially in Nassau, was meeting the teachers themselves and meeting the people from the ministry and so it just gave some additional context to what she was saying when they were telling me their story and what they think about when they show up to their classroom.
Bryan Dewsbury:And it it reminds me, my mom always says this to me all the time about, you know, Brian, no no matter where you go, no matter, you know, what people's culture is, currency is, station in life, People are people. And everywhere around the planet, everyone's getting up to go and do their thing, to feed their children, to hopefully do good. And I think maybe for me that's the takeaway. Right? Like to the extent our going global nature of this podcast.
Bryan Dewsbury:You know? I I hope people hearing this story of of education in the in the Commonwealth Of The Bahamas and, you know, hearing some similarities and how people think about it, but also things we could learn from. I hope that resonates with you this week. Thank you so much as always for listening, and please be excellent teacher.
Kimberley Minors:As a parent, I and and again, one of the things that really saddened me in the Bahamas Public School Mhmm. Is we couldn't get parents to take ownership Yeah. Of their children's education. So I would love to see a program for parents that say, listen. You are responsible for your child's education Right.
Kimberley Minors:And make sure you're more engaged what's happening in the school. Make sure it supports the values that you want your children to know. So a a a class for parents as your child's first educator, I would love to see that. I believe that I know we'd like to see it in our paychecks. Mhmm.
Kimberley Minors:You know? Because we are we are the ones who teach the doctors and teach the lawyers and all the rest of it. But I do believe that we have a unique opportunity as teachers where we have gifts in front of us that we can mold and, you know, not make it about, what the culture is saying, but making it about understand what is it that I can impart to the student that's gonna help them to be more productive. Right. Yeah.
Kimberley Minors:You need to get the the the curriculum down. You know, that's how they that's what they pay us for. Right. But we also get kind of life changing opportunities as well.