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Hosted by journalist, speaker and Certified Meditation teacher, Leslie Zanoff, A Lifetime to Learn is where authentic conversations shed light on how we can live with a deeper sense of purpose.
Together, let’s learn from entrepreneurs, health and wellness experts, thought leaders and luminaries. Don’t forget the change-makers and women who are rewriting the rules.
This podcast is a culmination of Leslie’s desire to equip listeners with practical tools and inspiring stories on how to show up as your best self. You’re not too old and it’s never too late. Life doesn’t come with an instruction manual – only lessons revealed through living. So let’s get going. We’ve got A Lifetime to Learn.
TJ Barnes (00:00.286)
Our kids, especially my kids, I'm sure some with your kids, they're everything is immediate. Like success to them can be immediate. They play video games and if they don't immediately win, they can hit the reset button. You know, and it's kind of like like that we can order anything from Amazon immediately. We can go to Walmart and buy anything now. Like we don't have to wait. One thing I think that that Youth Sports
you know, teaches us what to do is patience. I mean, we have to be patient. Sometimes you gotta be patient in how teams come together. We have to be patient with playing time. I mean parents and and having your your kid on a court, you know, patient to to seeing how they develop. I mean you have some kids that are ready and developed as seventh graders with with us and some kids that won't be ready and developed until they're sophomores in high school. So the probably the the first thing to teach kids nowadays is being patient.
Leslie Zanoff (00:58.126)
This is a space where presence meets purpose, where we explore the moments that shape us. From entrepreneurs and change makers to women in leadership. It's about learning out loud.
Together with honesty and humor. We're luminaries with real stories. Remind us how to live by our own rules. Because progress doesn't come from having all the answers, it comes from staying open. And we've got a lifetime to learn. I'm your host, Leslie Zanoff. Let's get started. Today's guest is someone that I've wanted to have on the show for a while now. And I couldn't have picked a better person to break the streak of having all the women before now.
TJ Barnes is the athletic director and head coach at St. Joseph Catholic School in Fayetteville, where he spent over a decade building an athletic program from the ground up, 12 sports, 25 conference championships, and a reputation as one of the most organized, detail oriented people you will ever meet. He's deeply supportive and encouraging, and he genuinely loves what he does. His wisdom goes far beyond the classroom and coaching.
I'm excited because today we're talking about an important topic, youth sports, what it teaches, what we're getting right, and what we still need to work on, and what it means to lead with honesty, even when the lessons are hard. Coach TJ Barnes, welcome to a lifetime to learn.
TJ Barnes (02:27.886)
I'm excited. I can only I can only go down from here, right?
Leslie Zanoff (02:32.138)
No. All right, so let's just start getting to know you. You grew up in Lewis, Kansas, a small town, which I grew up in a small town too, and I loved it. But looking back, what part of that small town upbringing do you think shaped you the most?
TJ Barnes (02:50.74)
I would say community is probably the the big word that I like to use and you know, what I think brings everything together. There was only five hundred people in the town I grew up in. There was fourteen kids in my graduating class. So just the sense of of you know, community on when I was in high school Friday nights, you know, it was all about high school football and you know, went to high school musical into basketball season. I mean the community was what everything was about and
me still to this day the well there's fifteen kids in my graduating class, three have passed away, so there's twelve of us, eleven of us are on a text thread together. So just that community aspect of it all and and that's you know, what I love about where I'm at now is is the the community, the the parents, to the kids, to the the teachers and you know, and then of course to the school.
Leslie Zanoff (03:43.618)
Okay. my gosh. You guys are still on a text chain. I love that.
TJ Barnes (03:47.798)
It's great. We celebrate everybody's birthday by text. So I mean we planned our entire thirtieth class reunion by text. I mean yeah. Pretty crazy.
Leslie Zanoff (03:58.286)
Okay, this is not a surprise to me when I learned it, but I didn't know that you are an Eagle Scout with vigil honor. That's a really big deal. And I learned that's a distinction reserved for someone regarded as a true leader, someone who's selfless and who looks out for others, which doesn't you know, knowing you that does not surprise me. But what did you learn from that?
TJ Barnes (04:25.368)
You know.
The character the leadership characteristics are probably the biggest. You know, we w where I grew up, you know, the the one of the things you looked forward to was scouts, because there wasn't a whole lot of we didn't have club sports, you know, to to pass the time. You either were working on the farm or you were, you know, trying to get together with your friends. And I think scouting was a way that we all connected as friends. And then me you
know me, one of my faults or I guess we call it a fault is that I'm all in. And so, you know, once I went in, I was gonna go all in. And whether that meant to get to the the top level we could get to, that's what we did. And and I was pretty lucky. I had wonderful my parents pushed me and I had wonderful scout masters. wonderful the men in my life at the time directed us to make good decisions. Mm-hmm. And that
definitely shaped who I am. You know, I tried to get my kids involved in it and neither neither one of them where we're at now were as involved as what I was in it. But for me it was the right thing to do at the right time, most definitely.
Leslie Zanoff (05:38.198)
Okay. I know. I mean it's such a big deal. And when I like I said, when I learned about that, it doesn't surprise me at all. Yeah, that you went all in and that's what you what you did. All right. And so let's talk about your path to coaching because it wasn't a totally a straight line. You managed equipment for the XFL and you ran optical retail across the Midwest before landing at St. Joseph. How did that
Road leads you there.
TJ Barnes (06:08.128)
Transition. So right out of college. I knew I knew when I went to college what I wanted to do. I mean, I wanted to work in sports somewhere. started in sports broadcasting, went into sport management or into coaching. was very fortunate. I worked for the University of Kansas Athletics as a student and got to work in multiple sports.
Once I graduated from college, the XFL was the new thing. This was back in nineteen ninety-nine, two thousand. Went from the first year of the startup league where we were basically planning a football league, was hired right out of college. The league lasted a year and it folded. While the league was going on, I was in Chicago, met my wife. The XFL folded while I was in Chicago. I was single.
TJ Barnes (06:59.618)
The crazy story has to do with nine eleven in of all things, but was sitting in a in our condo in Chicago on the morning of nine eleven, September two thousand one, interviewing with the University of Indiana for an equipment job while the second plane hit the hit the World Trade Center. Well it was on the Today show. It was sitting right in front of me as a doing a phone interview and you know, the whole world kinda stopped then. I sat around for a couple of days and told my
then fiancé like I gotta find something to do. And she said, Well, we're looking for somebody to work in optical for at one of my stores in Chicago. And that's how the whole optical career started and went into that and and just kind of worked my way up through the retail management side there until we moved to northwest Arkansas. So and then moved northwest Arkansas and we were gonna be here for five years. Five years like everyone, we were gonna put in our five years time in two thousand and three and
Leslie Zanoff (07:37.857)
Okay.
Leslie Zanoff (07:52.47)
Put it.
TJ Barnes (07:59.362)
You know, we had kids and life happened and got involved in the in the church and at the same time the church was the was involved with the school and at the same time the school was gonna get involved with athletics to which the the whole thing just kind of happened where, hey, we're gonna start an athletic program and I was on the board for that and they you know was lucky enough to be hired as the first athletic director once we started junior high at Saint Joe's. So
Leslie Zanoff (08:24.906)
Okay. I love that. I did not know all that. So great.
TJ Barnes (08:28.018)
Crazy career path, but you know, it was great. The sports management side of it really taught me the budgeting side and the of of the equipment part of it all. when I first started to the retail side and taught me how to work with people.
you know, how to deal with people in all sorts of circumstances and then of course into the the Saint Joe, you know, the school side of it which kind of was a culmination of everything together.
Leslie Zanoff (08:59.534)
Okay. Which also back up and we need to give a shout out to Dr. Dina Davis. For sure.
TJ Barnes (09:05.899)
Awesome.
Leslie Zanoff (09:09.248)
Okay, well and then but you've spent time head coaching six different sports and building a program. Is it six sports and building a program that won twenty five conference championships. What do you think actually separates a good coach from a great one? I've
TJ Barnes (09:27.626)
I think a a good coach is never satisfied with just being a good coach. He's always trying to be a great coach. Whereas a great coach puts everything together and is never satisfied with being a good coach.
Leslie Zanoff (09:47.859)
Yeah.
TJ Barnes (09:49.752)
You know, there's lots of great coaches who aren't great people and there's lots of good coaches who, you know, are great people. So I mean there's it's a it's a play on words for lack of a better thing, but I've always tried to you know my philosophies, I guess, as a coach is to you know, what can I do to make a person better at something.
You know, you've got athletes who you can make better athletes and you've got, you know, individuals who c you can make better individuals and better students, you know, who are gonna be better students. But at the end of the day where I'm at we're trying to make kids, you know, better to be ready to go into high school.
Leslie Zanoff (10:29.024)
Right. Which you do a total a great job at that. Like every day. I s I've seen it. And I right, I mean, as a parent, I've seen firsthand what having a good coach and a bad coach can do to your kids' self confidence and outlook on playing sports. I mean I I could cry when I think about it because it just has, makes such a difference. And when you have a good coach, I mean you're just so so grateful.
You know, beyond the wins and losses, right?
TJ Barnes (11:01.922)
Well, and there's lots of learning that go goes into it. I mean, I I don't it's funny to hear people say that you're a good coach because I mean in in my mind you always are I'm always trying to be a good coach, right? But you know, and there on the school side there's completely different than, you know, on the recreation or the club side of coaching as well. We're coaching the whole person as opposed to just coaching the the
the kid to be a better athlete. I mean we're coaching the the student athlete. You know, we want the kid ready academically, athletically, Saint Joseph, you know, with their faith. So there's a lot more that goes into coaching students where we are as opposed to coaching students at the at the different youth sports levels.
Leslie Zanoff (11:53.304)
So it's probably something I need to remind myself of because the only time I was involved in team I mean cheerleading, team sports or or tumbling, it was also through the school. So people were develop working to develop you as a whole person and maybe that's not the case all the time. I need to keep that in mind, I guess. Even though I don't want to.
TJ Barnes (12:16.952)
Well, I think, you know, in especially in youth sports is there's different agendas for everybody, you know. Parents on your team have different agendas for their own kids. Coaches on teams have different agendas for them themselves and in in their club, whether or not they're trying to, you know, advance themselves. I'm pretty satisfied with where I'm at, you know. So if that means that, you know, we have to take a different approach, you know
Leslie Zanoff (12:27.778)
Right.
TJ Barnes (12:46.444)
with our with our teams and I'm I'm willing to do that. And I'm lucky I have, you know, administration and parents who allow me to do that with their with their student athletes versus, you know, at the club especially with the way you know, they have to win or else right you know, they don't have a job. Yes. And and I think it's it's a totally different mindset than what we have.
Leslie Zanoff (13:11.682)
Okay, which that kind of leads me to my next thought on your approach to coaching from sport to sport, because you're leading so many at the school. Is there one constant no matter the sport that you're coaching, or does it change depending on
TJ Barnes (13:26.872)
I mean it changes and it changes yearly with the sport. You know, your expectations or my expectations going into, you know, this season for junior high volleyball are quite different than my expectations were last year, you know, to to the year before.
So you know, even even you know, with with the sport itself, yes, going from a coach junior high girls volleyball to junior high boys basketball, there's a completely different mindset in in how do you how you you build and structure, you know, everything when it you know, from the the the way that we practice to the especially the way you communicate to the way that you discipline to you know, and and of course, you know, to to the way that it all comes together in the end. And you just kind of hope that you
You push the you you pull the right strings and you push the right buttons that that it comes together in a way that's effective for everybody. I remember my first year coaching volleyball, I knew nothing about volleyball. I I learned everything I knew from volleyball. I we went Dean and I went on vacation and the reason I got into coaching volleyball is that I got tired of hiring volleyball coaches. We'd have a volleyball coach for two years and there on to the next thing or
I just so I got tired of hiring volleyball coaches. Man, it can't be that hard to coach volleyball. Really? What am I getting? So I I bought how to a coaching volleyball for dummies book. I love it. And I read it on vacation. we were at at Santa Bell on the beach and spent the week reading it and I was like, Man, this is a lot harder than I thought it was going to be And it's 'cause volleyball is chess. It's chess on a court and a lot different when it comes to to handling of the the game of basketball. But
the one thing I never took into account was how much more different, not difficult, but different it would be to coach twelve and thirteen year old girls versus twelve and thirteen year old boys. Mm-hmm. And there's lots of lots of tears involved with those first couple months of my first season, because you can't, you know, talk to young women the way you can talk to young men. And coaching it a lot differently. So I've had to learn and adapt.
TJ Barnes (15:40.972)
And then to change that to shift that mindset into boys once volleyball season over, it takes a while, but it's completely completely different. But at the end of the day, you know, we're trying to get have everyone ready to play and to compete and to try out and hopefully we have them ready for high school.
Leslie Zanoff (15:58.198)
Right. But as you say that I'm I mean, right, the difference in girls and boys and I can imagine but you do such a great job of coaching the individual too, because I know how you coach one student or y athlete may not be the same way that you can talk to and coach another student athlete. For some they may need to be like, Come on, get it together and another kid is like, if you say that they're going to cry. I mean that
TJ Barnes (16:28.152)
Yeah, you're right. I mean it's it it's taken a lot to to figure out. I mean I'm you know I'd parent my own kids differently. I mean, you know, it it all comes down to to that part of it as well. It's it's yeah, you you learn and and I'm I'm fortunate enough that I've known most of these kids since they were kindergarten second grade, you know? Since they've come to s to to school at St. Joe's. So you figure out how and what you can say to
each person. Sometimes it takes failing to figure out how to do it correctly the next time. And you know, I'm not naive enough to say that I haven't failed with some kids when I've first tried to coach and then, you know, it takes learning both ways, me and them, to to know to know what it what it took to get
Leslie Zanoff (17:14.318)
Right. Well, but I've seen too, I mean, they have such a trust in you that they know, okay, even if I'm hard on you when we're on the court, like I'm still cheering you on. So there's not quite as that level of tears and upset after they get off the court. Okay, let's shift gears a little bit, but why do you think youth sports matter? I mean, in your opinion, what are we really teaching underneath
the game itself.
TJ Barnes (17:48.59)
In today's world, this is my philosophy, so don't you know, it's the way that I think.
Our kids, especially my kids, I'm sure some with your kids, they're everything is immediate. Like success to them can be immediate. they play video games and if they don't immediately win they can hit the reset button.
You know, and it's kind of like that we we can order anything from Amazon immediately. We can go to Walmart and buy anything now. Like we don't have to wait. One thing I think that that U Sports, you know, teaches us what to do is patience. I mean, we have to be patient. Sometimes you gotta be patient in how teams come together. We have to be patient with playing time. I mean, parents and having your your kid on a court, you know, patient to seeing how they develop. I mean, you have some kids that are ready and
Developed as seventh graders with us and some kids that won't be ready and developed until they're sophomores in high school. So the probably the the first thing to to teach kids nowadays is being patient, and I'm the least patient person in the world. So I've had to I don't believe that so I've had to learn, you know, how to become patient as well. And then have them them ready to succeed, you know. Every kid is gonna succeed at their own rate. You know, some kids
can go out and be the the the best kid at what they're doing at at whatever they're trying to do right now. Some kids it takes a a full season to get them to serve a volleyball over a net, you know, and then that's a success when we all celebrate it. So, you know, that the thing that youth sports can continue, especially w where we are, where I'm at, is is you can, you know, teach how to be patient and learn teach how to come back from from failing because we're all gonna fail at some point.
TJ Barnes (19:40.15)
And then to see that the success, you know, we eventually wear off, you know, to w all at all different rates for all of us. So you know, I I get off on this soapbox sometimes about we're we're too and I'm the worst at it. It's it's too easy to reset nowadays. Like to it's too easy for all of us just to hit the the reset button and to start over. If we don't like something's going on our way, we can just start over. We don't like the the food we're eating, we just throw it away and start something new. You know, we're
Instant gratification, I guess. And and that's something that's been, you know, important for me to teach our kids over time. It, you know, things don't happen instantly. We have to work at it and and if you you buy in and and you, you know, work hard, you know, eventually we're gonna succeed at whatever we're doing.
Leslie Zanoff (20:28.11)
Okay. Yes, right. I mean you're right. I love that. I have not even thought about that from that perspective, but absolutely the patience and not always hitting the reset button. Okay, well from both a coaching and a parenting perspective, we're getting right in youth sports right now?
And I mean I guess there's many different levels, right? There's the playing at school, club, whatever angle. Recreation, whatever.
TJ Barnes (20:57.269)
I here's
TJ Barnes (21:00.766)
I me, I remember the failures a lot more than I remember the successes. But you know, what we get right
When you see a kid leave and then they come back and they say, Thanks for having me ready for this That makes sense that's when you know you you've got it right. when you see a kid who has struggled with with something and it could be sports, academics, life, parents, we what a right and they come back and they thank you for
for s for something that you helped them through and now they've gotten through it, that's when you know, you know, you've done it right. And whether that be sports or that be whatever else we're trying to do, you know, where we're at. I mean, in sports, you know, we're trying to teach them we really try to preach, for lack of a better word, how to handle things correctly. You know, talk to the officials the right way. Talk to your teammates the right way.
You know, and that all comes down to communicating and you know, all carries on through. But even how to juggle sports and school together, you know, how to handle that. And when you see, you know, kids that that might be struggling with a friendship off of the court and then they get on the court and they're the first to hug and high five and you know, now we've done that right. So it's the real little itty bitty things that all kind of add up.
you know, over time doing it right. I mean there's a lot that we do wrong, but the the things that that we do correctly is are the little moments like that that you see and parent might not see it from the stands, but we'll see it when we're sitting over on the side and that's when you know you've done it you've done it right. You know.
Leslie Zanoff (22:56.888)
Well, and you're good to communicate and tell parents this of like you might not have seen this at practice or you might not know this and I always appreciate hearing that from
TJ Barnes (23:04.85)
And it's important. Thank you. I mean it's important for me to you're right. I mean we I see your kids as much as you do and probably more while they're up and going during a day than a parent does. So, you know, we're real easy, this you know, schools and not just my school, but you know, schools or people life, we're it's real easy for us to tell you when you or your kids have done wrong. Mm-hmm.
You know, you'll get an email saying, you know, your kid was this way at class or your kid did this incorrectly. We're not good enough at telling people when they're kids or when you have done right. Yeah. That makes sense to
Leslie Zanoff (23:41.26)
Yeah, which is so appreciated and so needed too.
Okay, well, on the flip side of this, what are we still getting wrong or what do we need to work on? I mean, I know there's so much, but maybe from a parenting and or a coaching perspective when it comes to youth.
TJ Barnes (24:00.61)
I think that the thing that that really stands out to me and and just thinking back on things, especially the last few years, is you know, goes back to the instant gratification is is we and and maybe it's 'cause we've had success where where I am that you give parents that parents and kids the false sense of hope of that when they leave things are gonna be
just as easy as to come by as what it was. And you know, they they forget how hard the work was to get to where they were. That once they they they leave that everything's gonna be given to them just the way it was. I mean you're you know when you leave junior high, you're basically starting over again in high school. And you know whether that comes from going from a school our size into the schools the s the size of that our kids are getting ready to go into or
you know, on on club teams. You know, they might have a lot of success playing at the level that they're playing at and think that it's gonna be just as easy to play at that next level up.
Leslie Zanoff (25:04.876)
So, running an athletic program at a Catholic school for thirteen years, how has faith shaped the way you coach or the culture that you've tried to build?
TJ Barnes (25:20.526)
Another hard one. It's like a deep one for me. So, I'm a cradle Catholic, born Catholic. You know, born and raised in the Catholic church. My mom always said life would be easy if you'd married Catholic. So, I married Catholic. Both of my kids, you know, Catholic educations, my public-school education. But
TJ Barnes (25:46.54)
Working, coaching, teaching in a Catholic school has made me a more faithful person. You know, I've been able to see how faith how we can, you know, implement faith into our practices. You know, we we pray before every practice is probably my favorite part of practice is the first five minutes when we're all together and just, you know, kind of get everything out, you know, that we need to to get out together. You know
Being at a faith filled school can also make things a little more difficult. You're held to a little bit different expectation. You know, the way that we conduct ourselves away from away from the school is a little bit different than than what some of my colleagues can do at the at public schools, for better or for worse. I've really implemented implemented faith in you know, ever it my beliefs are
Leslie Zanoff (26:33.452)
Right.
TJ Barnes (26:43.446)
My faith is gonna be different than your faith is gonna be different than than her faith. So, let's come together in a way that we all can and and you know, do what we can do in order to, you know, who we need to do it for.
Leslie Zanoff (26:57.56)
Hmm. Makes sense. Yeah. Okay, that's good. I love it. Well, I know that's that's kinda you know what I wanted to talk about, which you mentioned, but how your own faith has guided how you handle the harder moments with kids when it comes to a cut, a loss, or just tough conversation.
TJ Barnes (27:14.386)
With two kids and going to college, one kid just graduating high school, I've said, Jesus, I trust in you more th in this last in those last three months than I ever have before.
You know, y you you have to believe that, you know, everything is there for the in a for the purpose. You know, and and like I said, it the the way that I believe in that purpose is gonna be different than the way that you do. But what is really neat or fulfilling for me is when you know, and I'm not this I wasn't the perfect high school Catholic boy, I stopped going to church when I was in high school.
But I got back into my faith in college and when I see the kids that I've coached, you know, eight, nine, ten years ago come back in and and we we'll talk about especially the boys. For some reason we talk about more with boys than do with the girls. But they'll say, hey, I remember when you talked about refining your faith when you're in college. And you know, it was that was big for me. And I'll see that in some of our kids come back now and say, you know, how involved they've got with the with their their their campus ministries and there's a couple of them
That aren't Catholic anymore that have gotten pretty involved in their in their faith in in in opposite directions. And that's really fulfilling for me as well. It's pretty weird. Thirteen years now, so I'm starting to see students who are in seventh and eighth grade, who are now married, have kids and been to weddings. In different in different denominations. But that's that's pretty awesome.
Leslie Zanoff (28:38.294)
Right. Okay. my gosh.
Leslie Zanoff (28:46.998)
Okay. Yeah, I bet. my gosh.
TJ Barnes (28:51.19)
Weddings are a lot more fun than funerals.
Leslie Zanoff (28:53.582)
Well for sure. my gosh. Okay, shifting gears again here, because we've talked about getting kids ready for high school, and you've mentioned how important it is to talk to kids about substance abuse before high school. Why does that timing in junior high matter so much to you?
TJ Barnes (29:15.598)
probably my favorite hour of of my week as a teacher coach is I teach seventh grade health class. Okay. And and part of the seventh-grade health class curriculum is drugs and society. So, we take about four weeks and which is probably not enough, but we take about four or five weeks time and and talk about, you know decisions 'cause
When you leave the the walls of of Saint Joseph or you you leave your parents' house going into high school and you are on your own with making decisions. And so we try to, you know, try to really give them decisions or throw at them different decisions they're gonna have to make in high school. And and the one of the things that really came to light in me working when I went back into coaching was the drug use at at the high school and not just one high school in every
Every high school, whether it be the Catholic high school, the you know, the the the public high schools, you know, everywhere where our kids were going, they would come back and say, you know, man, you know, I I was not ready for my first week of class of walking down the hallway and and, you know, having something presented to me the way that it is. So my third year at Saint Joe's w we started this part of our our health class curriculum was drugs and society. So
Leslie Zanoff (30:27.319)
Okay.
TJ Barnes (30:44.224)
And you know, you you got to see a little bit of it last year, but we assign every kid their drug of choice and they get to pick their drug of choice and we give them a list of drugs for them to choose from. and then it's a group project. They have to go in and and of course we've talked about in class, you know, decisions and what that can do and the different things it can do to you and your mind and your body. but then they have to go and research that drug of choice and it goes from how it's consumed, how the drug is consumed to
the effects it can have on that person and their their families and then of course into the how they can get help or receive help once they and then they they have to present that drug of their drug of choice to their class in front of their class. So it makes them stand up and and talk about and talk about the the different the ways the different the drugs can affect them in in so many different ways. And it just it to me
it helps them when they leave to know when it's presented to it's not such a shock. Yes, I know about this, I heard about it. And, you know, as if if we've talked about a little bit, is is I'm not the the perfect parent to say that that my kids weren't ever exposed or or or or not. But at least I had confidence knowing that they were exposed to it prior to, you know, in in in a safe way.
choices that they can make. Correct. And it's it's funny because it's one of the things that that a that a kid will come back, especially their first year out. The the ninth graders are always fast. They'll come back first time they see Ms Coach. Drugs and society day one. Walking down the hallway and boom, here it is. Okay. You know, and and it's helps parents too, especially parents whose first kid is their, you know, their their oldest kid is their their their first kid who's just left, you know, is
'Cause your kids are gonna be exposed to it no matter where they go and how much we try to to to shield them from it, you know, whether it be a school event or club, athletic event, uhhuh or even a camp event. So
Leslie Zanoff (32:50.168)
But it's so important to talk about and to educate kids. I was almost a little surprised, but then I thought, No, this is good to have these conversations because I mean when I was growing up, right, it's like here's your dare red ribbon and there you go. There was no discussion, there was no education. And so and I also didn't realize you had been doing talking about this or educating kids for a long time on this. So for ten plus years then. This has been something
Okay.
TJ Barnes (33:20.17)
It was probably the tenth or eleventh the how was my first it was my second or third year when we started it. The our seventh grade health class is set up like a ninth grade health class in high school. Okay. So it's pretty, you know, it's advanced in what in what we're doing and then we added the drugs and society thing. And the administration was great with it. I mean they were really open to it. You know, how can we do it in a respectful kind of a way? You know, here here's the drug, here's the effects of the drug.
Leslie Zanoff (33:25.144)
Okay.
TJ Barnes (33:49.102)
But at the same time, here's how you can come back from you know, because not just them but seeing their friends.
Leslie Zanoff (33:52.716)
Right.
Leslie Zanoff (33:56.226)
Right. I mean that's an important discussion too. Yep. Yeah. Instead of ha I like that they can have the conversation before it you know, it's hit head on with never having a discussion or not knowing what is this, what's happening. Yeah. Yeah. my god.
TJ Barnes (34:14.34)
I'm glad we're doing something right.
Leslie Zanoff (34:17.065)
Well, no, I think it I I think it's an important but hard conversation, things we want to avoid and so I appreciate that you're hitting the conversation head on.
TJ Barnes (34:28.6)
And and I always think you you feed back from parents, right? I think I've had one email in ten years that I can think of. And I'm sure there's been people question it in other ways that I don't ever see or know of. But once you know, me and the in the administration sits and says, Well, this is why we're doing it this way, it's always well, yeah, it kind of makes sense. Thanks for explaining it to me. And, you know, we're always open to doing it better, you know.
Leslie Zanoff (34:57.506)
But you're ver very transparent. I mean, you have sent an email ahead of time to parents and families saying, This is what we're going to be doing. This is what your child will be learning about. So there's no it's really transparent and I think that's important.
TJ Barnes (35:13.89)
There's a reason behind this kind of a funny story too. first year we did it, you know, it was w eleven years ago, I guess, methamphetamine was a thing, but it wasn't what it is, you know, you the the word meth. And I remember I got an email from a parent pretty fired or not fired up, but freaked out on their search engine on their home computer was they their kid had been searching for the word meth. Right. And, you know, when wanted to make sure that
that you know, they had said that we were talking about this in health class. So learned over time, make sure before we ever get into the talking about the drugs that we send the email to the parents saying, Your kids will probably be searching for things they're not, you know, yes normally exposed to or that you wouldn't want them to search. So, you know, and that's why I I'll send out a list now saying your kids drug of choice was blank so that you know Yeah. And they're gonna if they ask questions, you're not hit blindsided by it as well, you know, like
Leslie Zanoff (35:54.104)
Right.
Leslie Zanoff (36:04.898)
Yeah. This is what they're
TJ Barnes (36:12.696)
Whoa, what's you know? Well thank ya.
Leslie Zanoff (36:14.862)
It's great.
Okay, so but on a lighter note, and I n some people may not know this about you, but I have heard you I know you can sing. Where where does that come from? When did you know you can sing?
TJ Barnes (36:27.564)
We just had I a s in a school our size we had this unbelievable music program. From the time I was a freshman in high school until I graduated my senior I actually got a vocal jazz scholarship. So I was saying in a jazz choir my first two years of college. And that was awesome. I mean, paid for you know, paid for books and some some stuff. But
I just I fell in love with it. I mean, I never really sang at church much as a kid. When I got to college we started singing in church. When I got to when I came to Saint Joe's, it was a you know, I I I remember looking over the first probably the first Tuesday or Friday morning mass that we had and none of the junior high boys were singing and it drove me crazy. I thought, Well, if if I'm gonna be upset that they're not singing, then I need to sing. So
And and I'm thank you for saying I'm a good singer, but I've put myself out there, you know, saying if if it's kind of a follow by me type of thing. So if I get up and I can sing in front of the whole school or the church at at a mass or whatever, then you know, they sure can put themselves out there as well. But I mean it it all comes back to I I mean my my parents pushed me into it. My high school junior high high school music director, she's in the Kansas Hall of Fame for teaching.
Wow. I mean, she was amazing. you know, it all goes back to her. I always say she probably she's probably do more credit for scholarship money than at at the little school I grew up in than any coach. Well you know, for the number of kids that that went through school on on music scholarships in college. But it was she was it was awesome. I and I and still enjoy doing it. Both of my kids have done it in high school. Just we were blessed with the talent of singing, I guess.
Leslie Zanoff (38:20.742)
Okay, well your own kids, I know one Tate is about to start college and Taylor's in college. So they're past some of maybe the toughest years now being in college and but looking back, what do you wish someone had told you?
TJ Barnes (38:37.218)
Well, first of all, coaching your kids is the hardest thing you'll ever coach. And I tell that to all of my especially the younger coaches coming up who are getting ready to coach their children. I mean, there's nothing more difficult and more satisfying than coaching your own kids. because you hear about it everywhere, you know, coach's kid plays too much and you get home and the wife says, Well, why didn't you play you know? And not that Dina really ever did it, but you know, why didn't my kid play more to
Sure. Well he's the coach's kid, so he gets special treatment to know you're twice as hard on your kid as you are everybody else. So the the constant juggling of coaching your own kid was probably it was tough, but at the same time fulfilling.
I mean, I wish I'd have listened to my mother more, you know. I know it's okay. It's easy for the fifty one year old me to say, but
You know, it it took my kids being probably seniors in high school to realize that you can't not love them more. You know, I was always the stern, you know, do better and, you know, pusher. To once yeah. So once they became, you know, seniors, I'm like, Wow, you know and you know, I'm I've we talked about this earlier. I'm the constant I'm always trying to do things better.
Right. I don't my patience is bad. So, you know, I know you think about the things that I think about the things that I did wrong a lot more than the things that I that I did hopefully did right. But you know, just being supportive, especially as a as a parent who coached their kids, watching them at the next level perform completely had to change my mindset. It it came down to
TJ Barnes (40:29.546)
Asking you know, especially Tate in football, because football was kind of my background growing up, is you know not getting in the car with him and saying, Man, I can't believe you didn't do this better. It was a man, how do you think you did? You know. And he had success in in high school football. So, you know, it was fun to follow his personal success through up through his senior year. But you you changed that coaching mindset to being parent.
mindset pretty hard. And I've seen or I think I've seen how I wouldn't don't want parents to act with their kids, so I tried not to be that way with mine. But at the same time you're still a a parent. You know, I really tried to distance myself from contacting their coaches. You know, when it came to questioning like playing time or why did you do it this way to more of a support role of
Leslie Zanoff (41:09.28)
Right.
Sure.
TJ Barnes (41:29.314)
you know, what can I do to help you to the coaches? You know, so that's that was a hard
Leslie Zanoff (41:36.312)
Right.
TJ Barnes (41:37.598)
you know, path t to change from what from what I was used to. But
be able answer that question a lot better next year when we're empty nesters and we're all alone at home and and and going from there with them. But it's it's most fulfilling thing I've ever done is coaching my own kids and the hardest part of coaching youth was coaching my kids.
Leslie Zanoff (42:01.24)
Well, right. I mean I joke with my kids, I'm like, here's me. I'm this Instagram meme of I don't know how to play your sport, but I'm gonna tell you how. Get in the car afterwards and it's hard not it's hard not to do that. And I do have to check myself on, okay, let me give you some space. Then we'll have a conversation. But also, I mean you have given good advice to parents navigating kids, you know, sports experiences, the disappointment, and I know you've
Told me like, don't sugarcoat the disappointment. Yeah. Tell tell the truth. Let let them grieve. Let them have the hard times. Why? Mm-hmm. You know? Where does that come from?
TJ Barnes (42:43.662)
Well, it I mean, eventually someone's going to. Right. You know. You you can my my theory or whatever you want to call it is you you can control that narrative. You know, you can be the one to you know I always say the the hardest parents and I've I deal with great parents. I mean, I don't want to say that I don't because I'm very blessed with where I work with with the parents when I talk to my colleagues in coaching. But the hardest parents that that I deal with are the parents who
really try to make up for their kids' mistakes. Make sense? Like they're there's always a reason why their kid didn't perform the way that we all thought they should have. Those are the hardest parents. Versus the in the the t to to the parents that are hard on their kids in in ways that they sh you know unfairly should be, you know, right, you know, why didn't you make that basket? He made that basket. You know, why did you miss that layup?
You didn't have any problem missing that layup. You know, your kids are already gonna beat themselves up enough for missing that layup. You know, it's to but then it's you know, you don't want to be that parent that's like, it's okay for missing that layup, but you know, at the same time you should, you know, and I understand it it's hard, you know, and and you know, maybe we go out and we work on this a little bit harder next time you you have that opportunity, something's different. You know.
Leslie Zanoff (44:08.096)
Right. But I think too, especially in the work that I do, just sitting with those hard emotions that we don't want to do, but having it be your kids, I feel like it's harder. It's even harder to watch. And to sit there and be like, Yeah, that was terrible. And I'm sorry, and there's really nothing else I can say. I mean we gotta sit with it for a minute. I I
TJ Barnes (44:32.834)
Well I I say this, if I'm the worst at it, is you look at my Facebook and my Instagram and you see all of mine and my kids' accomplishments. Right? I put our accomplishments out there. We had a great vacation, you see the great vacation. We That's it br right. But then you you you never see the the fight in the car during the vacation or the you never you know
Leslie Zanoff (44:49.068)
That's everyone.
TJ Barnes (44:58.998)
we don't show the struggles that's right as much as we show the accomplishments. So that makes the the struggles then more difficult to absorb because, you know, f for that's kind of what I believe than it is for for any of us, you know. I if it's you know it to me it's just gonna be as important to celebrate the team that was supposed to win five games in a season 'cause we won six as it is the team that won the championship. You know, but we're
Leslie Zanoff (45:25.112)
Mm-hmm.
TJ Barnes (45:27.126)
It's real easy to say you've won twenty five championships. Well, what about the years where we won, you know, seven games when we should have only won four or five? You know, it's you y that doesn't give the same you know, the the same thing due. But you know, we put numbers on banners when we win championships. We don't put numbers on banners when we don't.
Leslie Zanoff (45:34.52)
Right.
Leslie Zanoff (45:47.52)
Right. That's right. But sitting and sitting in the struggle, you're right. We're not seeing it and so to you you feel like other people aren't, but you're right.
TJ Barnes (45:57.282)
We had it we had a girl last year in volleyball and you'll I'm not gonna name names 'cause it's not fair, but she didn't serve a ball over the net in a game the entire season until the eighth grade day. Okay. In eighth grade day she served a ball and th to me that was like maybe the highlight of the season was this girl who never played a meaningful minute of volleyball won't ever play a meaningful minute the rest of her life in volleyball. But for that moment she accomplished something she had never done before. And to see the reaction
Of the the girls on the bench and the parents in the stands is that's why we do what we do. I mean it's it you know, at the end of the day that's why we do it. So
Leslie Zanoff (46:35.378)
I was gonna ask you if there was a moment or a situation that comes to mind with the student athlete that reminds you why you do this work.
TJ Barnes (46:46.006)
Yeah. And it everyone's different. Have you been f to listen to eighth grade speeches yet? I mean you'll get to this year. Okay. Eighth grade speeches to me are always like the it's the last day of the eighth grades is that the eighth graders are in school. So they get up in front of the whole school and they have a speech, right? About what they do, their accomplishments.
Leslie Zanoff (46:52.991)
No, I have not.
TJ Barnes (47:08.184)
To hear the things that they remember that was the best things that happened to them when when they were in school versus the things that we think that they're going to remember or that we celebrate are always different. Right. And so when you when you hear a kid say about the the volleyball serve, you know, we've kind of forgotten about that volleyball serve until you just mentioned it, but now that you mentioned it, that was a pretty big deal. It's pretty awesome. You know.
TJ Barnes (47:41.144)
probably the the one of the most fulfilling things with with what I get to do is it's you know a little bit different relationship than what the teachers have. You know, even the even the parents have. So you'll get a kid that'll come in, you know, that's having difficulty at home with the situation. And then to see them, you know, where they're at when they walk in versus, you know, where they're at when they walk out, you hopefully you you've done something correctly. You know, those are
Those are the w the the wins or when you know y you've you've made a little bit of a difference to even showing up for their
when they graduate as seniors and and seeing the the accomplishments that have nothing to do with sports, but that you hope that sports had something to do with their accomplishments. You know, those are those are pretty cool, pretty cool moments. When when you know you're doing what you love to do.
you know sports banquet nights. on sports banquet nights we bring back our seniors who participated in a varsity sport. And I've never had to beg a senior to come back. You know, that's that's an you know, and it might be the kid who was on the bowling team, but they're gonna come back and talk about them being members of the bowling team when they were in high school. You know, those are those are the the little itty bitty things that that really stand out, you know, that that I love. Yeah.
Leslie Zanoff (49:05.868)
I know that's that's great to to see and to for you to talk about that. It's never the things necessarily that you think the kids are gonna talk about and remember, but you're making a difference every
TJ Barnes (49:18.092)
Day. now we'll say this. I mean, this is this will be thirteen years. At one point in time, every parent thinks that their kid is going to be very successful in high school and then go on into college. This is in in thirteen years now we've had, you know, only five students, you know, get some sort of college scholarship in athletics. They're getting, you know, scholarships and and succeeding in in other things.
not related to sports. But you hope that sports had something to to or that you know, that their story had something to do with sports in high school to the success that they're having.
You know, it's all about setting kids up for helping them succeed once they leave our hallways. Yeah.
Leslie Zanoff (50:06.262)
Well, I think it it does. That's the whole the importance of patie, right? The team, the the community, the bonding. That's why I feel like personally it it's so important.
Okay, so since this show is called A Lifetime to Learn, is there a lesson that you're still learning or a lesson that's maybe taken you the longest to learn?
TJ Barnes (50:33.004)
I learn I mean I've every day I'm trying to learn. I told you earlier, patience is is my I'm always learning something about being patient and letting things in life come to you. I don't always have control of the situation. I'm a bit of a bit of a control freak, which is most coaches are. But I am I've there we're learning we learn something every day. There's something that happens
at least weekly that that myself or Coach Q or somebody around there is like, yeah, that's never happened before, you know, and and you figure out how to to deal with it. We're constantly learning how to manage parents and relationships with parents. We're constantly learning the the changing of the way things happen once they leave Saint Joe's. I mean, there's a constant learning in in sports. When when I think that I've
learned it all, I know that it's time to do something else. And I I mean and I know that I'm nowhere close to to knowing it all right now 'cause things are all constantly changing. I mean it's changed it's different, you know, this year than what it was last year.
Leslie Zanoff (51:48.898)
And that's a great mentality. That's what I think, right? We should continue learning, so yes.
TJ Barnes (51:54.574)
I need to come to some of your like think better myself things meditation.
Leslie Zanoff (51:59.794)
my gosh. Coach TJ Barnes, thank you so much for being here.
TJ Barnes (52:03.406)
For inviting me. Had a blast.
Leslie Zanoff (52:05.794)
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