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In an era where the line between work and life blurs, we're asking: why do we still treat employees less like humans and more like machines? There's plenty of talk about "enhancing the employee experience" but the conversation overlooks the core of it all - the human experience.
Getting Personal with Compt, hosted by Head of Brand and Communications Lauren Schneider, ditches the formalities and gets real with trailblazers and thought leaders who simply give a hoot about humanity. Join us as we explore the successes and challenges of shaping a workplace where people come first.
Stay connected with the movement and follow Compt on LinkedIn, or explore our insights and updates at www.compt.io.
Welcome to Getting Personal, a monthly podcast diving deep into the stories of the heartbeat of HR, brought to you by Compt, a global lifestyle benefits platform where companies empower employees with benefits and rewards they'll use and appreciate, whoever and wherever they are in life. Today, I have with me Matthew Thomas, VP of people and organizational development at Conger Construction. Thanks for being here, Matthew.
Matthew:Yeah. Thank you, Lauren. I appreciate the, the time we get to spend together here today.
Lauren:Likewise. So before we dive into what you're doing right now, I know you have a background in talent, but I'm wondering, was that your original career plan? I'll I know a lot of people don't necessarily go to college and say, I'm gonna do HR, so tell me about how you ended up where you are.
Matthew:Yeah. For sure. No. I appreciate the question, and and I totally agree that, most people don't really know what they wanna do when they're going through college. Most people don't have the proper guidance to help them identify what those things are that bring them the most those things.
Matthew:And so I was I was no different than anyone else. I was just trying to follow in the footsteps of, you know, my parents, the things that I knew knew of, my older sister, and I just kinda did what I thought was the right thing to do. And when I was going through college, I took, like, one HR class. They didn't even really talk about talent. They talked about policy and procedure.
Matthew:And
Lauren:Mhmm.
Matthew:I don't know too many people that get totally geeked out about, you know, policy and procedure. I know there are those, and we appreciate them greatly. Right. But HR didn't necessarily move me. Right?
Matthew:And, it wasn't until I got a job and was working full time, and I had a leader who I will call a mentor now who I still talk to after twenty plus years, who really had the ability to look at someone, understand their natural character strengths, where should they fit in the organization that best them up for success, put me in front of, different situations that would utilize my strengths. And I didn't even I didn't even know that that's what he was doing, and that's the kind of crazy cool thing about it. Right? Right? And so, he was helping me live my strengths before I knew that the strengths even existed because going through college, I didn't know talent development existed.
Matthew:He opened my eyes to this, just with the the genius that he has and the natural ability to lead, put people in positions where they're gonna be set up for success, and that's that's what this guy did. And so from that, I knew that these things existed, and, he was so impactful to me that I was like, you know what? Like, I can totally dig this. Like, helping people achieve their goals, putting them in a position where they can be successful, putting them in a position where they can utilize what comes most naturally to them. A majority of the time for work, they're gonna be better engaged.
Matthew:They're gonna have a higher quality of life. They're gonna have good family time because they had good work time, and it's this this flywheel that keeps spinning in in with positive energy as the fuel because they're doing what they love to do. And if we can figure that out, I truly believe organizations will be high performing teams, high performing organizations, and, that's just what I've seen, and and, I love it.
Lauren:That's awesome. What traits do you think he saw in you that, I don't know, indicated that this would be something you'd be really good at?
Matthew:That's a great question. I still tell him today. I was like, I have no idea what you saw in me or or or why you did what you did. Why'd you put your arm around me? That's a great question.
Matthew:I you know, it definitely wasn't my my facilitation skills at the time. Mhmm. Because if you ask me back then, would you rather write, like, a 40 page paper or give a four second speech or, you know, presentation? I would like give me the 40 page paper. Interesting.
Matthew:He he worked with me a lot on that skill. I but what I think to answer your question, what I think that he did is he saw how quickly I can go into organizations or groups or departments and build trust and build relationships and break down the barriers and partner with them on trying to achieve a goal, culture change kinda thing. Because my first role out of college that he was helping me with was more of like a customer experience role.
Lauren:Yeah.
Matthew:And I I had to if something happened with one of our products or services, I had to figure out why do a SWOT analysis and and work with the customer and our people and create and change policy procedures and, you know, more constructions and all those kinds of things. And and and not a lot of people like change, and so I had to go in there and pull information and knowledge from the people and use their ideas to make the good positive change. And so not not really knowing what I was doing because I didn't really take quality training or classes in college. But after a year or two, like, our quality numbers started to improve.
Lauren:Interesting.
Matthew:So that was super cool. And then anytime you have change or policy change or procedure or work construction change, anything like that, you gotta communicate it out to the people. Right? So change. Now we gotta communicate.
Matthew:Now we gotta implement, execute on those new things. So that led me to be up in front of people way more. And so I started to facilitate. I started to create training classes on these new policies and procedures and, you know, all this kind of stuff like that. And before I know it, like, I'm up in front of people just speaking and presenting and facilitating and doing some instructional design and figuring out new and creative ways to really grab the attention of my audience.
Matthew:And this he is just like a mastermind, like, making things where he's like, I knew this was gonna work. You know? Like, he's just doing it like that. And so, so we change quality for the better, in about three years in that role. And then, I was getting kinda comfortable in that role, and then he I kept on asking him in our one on ones and touch base meetings like, hey.
Matthew:What's next? What's next for me? What's next? And so our safety record wasn't really where it was, where we wanted it to be. Mhmm.
Matthew:And I didn't know anything about safety. Right? And so, again, didn't take any college classes on safety, like environmental health and safety. And so he entrusted in me to take over the whole entire safety program, for the whole entire company. At that time, I think we had, like, a 50 people.
Matthew:It was manufacturing, sales, and service. So no Yeah. No small task. But I had to learn the jet the general industry, rules and regulations, and then I had to communicate those out to all people as well. And so, again, he he put me in a position where I was up in front of people doing culture change, building these relationships, showing the value, executing on on the high level strategic plan for the business all along, like, just making really, really good friends with really, really good people, across the business.
Matthew:And so I think in the first year, we improved our OSHA recordables by 66%, and we at the end of the day, we went, like, almost thirteen hundred days without an OSHA recordable.
Lauren:Wow.
Matthew:And so so it was it was really cool. And I think he really what he instilled on me with that experience was it's it really starts with the people, understanding them, understanding what their needs are, putting yourself in in their situation. He he wants I was young and and dumb, and you could argue if I still am. But there was a late Friday afternoon, and we had a manufacturing facility, and he's out walking around. And I'm just like, it's Friday afternoon.
Matthew:He's just killing time, wasting time, like, disrupting all the manufacturing from happening. But he was going around station to station. He's like, hey. Like, how's little Johnny doing? Like, you know, what about Sally and, you know, her softball game?
Matthew:You know? Like, I'm like, these people are trying to work. Like, let let him go work. And, like, this was a total trap for me. Like, he knows what he's doing, and I go up there, this young this young punk, inexperienced, acknowledged, well, he definitely taught me a lesson in that day.
Lauren:Oh, I
Matthew:was like, you're just wasting time on the manufacturing floor, You know, trying to, like, stick my chest out and, you know, show off or whatever. He's like, you know, he put his arm around me, and he's just like, tapas. The leadership I'm walking around saying, you gotta go and get to know people on a personal level Yeah. For you to be able to lead them. And I was like, schooled.
Matthew:Totally schooled. So, yeah, he taught me a lot of really, really valuable lessons, about putting me putting people in an opportunity where they don't necessarily see their strengths for them to execute on their strengths and just hit goals and do things that they never thought that they could do. So he was definitely a massive impact on me, drove me to be who I am today. Still talk to him probably once a quarter every every six months, something like that, just do a check-in. So yeah.
Lauren:That's a great relationship to have and also something that I imagine really solidified your view or understanding of what professional development should look like for every single person in the workplace.
Matthew:Yeah. I agree because he he is a high level well, at the time, and still is today, like, a high level leader in the organization. So you have a million things going. Right? But he took the time.
Matthew:I don't know what I did to deserve someone like that to influence me. He's awesome.
Lauren:Wanna talk, a little bit about how your, I guess, approach, methodology, whatever you wanna call it, to professional development, talent development, has changed because you've worked in so many different industries. I mean, I've seen you talked about manufacturing. I know you're at Gorilla Clue. Now you're in construction. Is it very different across those?
Lauren:Or I don't know. Fill me in.
Matthew:Yeah. I've been in talent development for, I would call it, fifteen plus years. But pretty much my whole entire career, it has been about culture and changing and growing people, growing Yeah. Growing people to grow the organization. And I think not much has changed from my perspective of how to do it.
Matthew:Meaning you have to establish a clear strategic foundation first Mhmm. And then deploy the means and and ways of of doing it. So that hasn't changed, but the the means and the ways of executing on your strategy have definitely changed from a lot of the link like, online learning, like LinkedIn. It was, you know, Linda.Lindalearning or whatever was it. And then it was popping up, like automation.
Matthew:You could talk about AI. You could talk about podcasts.
Lauren:Mhmm.
Matthew:So all of those things are are truly great and vehicles to the end goal, for sure. And as we as the talent development industry continues to to grow and expand, new new vehicles will come out. There's no doubt.
Lauren:Yeah.
Matthew:But but the bottom line is the foundation doesn't really change. And so, like, I'll give you an example of this. Right? So I could go into an organization and start teaching leadership.
Lauren:Right.
Matthew:And that's great. K? But what what's what's the meaning? What's the why behind that? And companies could say, well, it it's good.
Matthew:It's good practice. It's, everyone needs to have good leadership skills. I'm like, I don't doubt that. There's I feel good about teaching people leadership, but, like, what does leadership mean to you and and your organization? Because, you know, there's a reason why there's I don't know how many leadership books there are.
Matthew:There's probably hundreds of thousands of leadership books out there. Yeah. But which one resonates with core mission, vision, and strategy of the organization?
Lauren:Mhmm.
Matthew:So we can go out, and we can hire consultants to teach leadership and customize training and send our whole executive team through it. But but what does what does leadership mean to the organization? So let's figure out what that foundational definition is, and then let's build on that. That's your blueprint. That's your strategy.
Matthew:That's your this is why we're doing it, and this is how we're doing it. And then you build your foundation. And so from the very, very beginning days, we put together a strategy, and we had kinda a light a layered learning approach to it. But as I continue to to grow my knowledge and talent development, things that I added to the blueprint or the strategy, made it better, but it's still foundational. You gotta have that strategy.
Matthew:You gotta have that blueprint. You gotta communicate that out to the masses. You gotta get everyone on the same page. You gotta have clear definitions of what, for this example, what leadership means. Mhmm.
Matthew:And then what are the behaviors that show you are living that leadership? Because as companies grow, you have people coming in from different experiences, different companies. What does that mean? Like, what what is this company's definition of leadership? Because we could go a lot of different ways.
Matthew:And and I don't want to spend thousands and thousands of dollars of teaching leadership that doesn't align with our mission, vision values, and I don't wanna pull people off the job for days and waste that time, energy, and money in those talents to train them on something that does not align with our mission, vision, values. So before we go spending all this time, energy, and money, why don't we come up with our company's definition of leadership?
Lauren:Mhmm.
Matthew:Communicate that out so everyone's on the same page, then we'll go find facilitators or in house expert, then we'll execute on the training, print it out, and then we'll grow our leaders from there.
Lauren:It's really interesting that you had also brought up the fact that especially in these industries, you have to bring people in for this training. You have to take them off the job, out of the field, away from whatever they're doing that ultimately impacts, business and revenue. And that is something that in a company I used to work with, we struggled with, trying to make sure that whatever training we were going to offer was super impactful or highly relevant to their individual job, their responsibilities, or, like you said, something that aligns with the company vision and mission and values and all of those things. So I'm wondering, have you figured out, like, I don't wanna say a hack to do that, but a a specific way that companies can accomplish both of those things, the professional development for these people who clearly want it and and benefit greatly from it, but then also make sure that you are still driving business impact, like, beyond the, mission and values and things like that. You know?
Matthew:Yeah. So I I think, you know, your question revolves around, you know, how how are you training and growing these people when they also have a full time job to do? Yeah. And that's that's a great question. I get it a lot.
Matthew:You know, my my immediate response to that is their job is to grow and develop and, quote, unquote, their full time job. So that that's part of their job. That's the part of the responsibility. One of the leaders of the organization I I worked for, I have a massive respect for, he once said, promotion is optional. Growth is mandatory.
Matthew:And he just set the tone with that right there. So that really created, cultural development across the whole entire organization to let everyone know that it's your job to grow and develop. So put it on put it on your calendar just like, you know, a meeting. So that's my that's my knee jerk response to, you know, that question is Yeah. When someone says, well, you know, I got a full time job to do.
Matthew:Well, your full time job is to grow and develop as well. There's a saying that a lot of times I say is, don't be too busy cutting down the tree to sharpen the saw because then, you know, eventually, you cutting down the tree, you're not cutting down the tree at all. There's some lean construction, you know, terminologies and theories. You gotta be able to slow down to speed up. Right?
Lauren:Mhmm.
Matthew:So if I slow down to sharpen the saw, I'll be able to speed up with my production. So, you know, I use those kinds of things a lot, but, I think depending on I I think that to to answer your question on, you know, how do you deliver training when people have, you know, jobs to do, I think it's also situational Yeah. Depending on what the training is. You know, if it if it's a if it's a, like, a leadership training that's focusing on relationship building, like, I wanna do so you just gotta plan ahead and plan accordingly to get coverage and know that the value of you being off the job learning is greater than than you being there because the things that you're gonna learn are you're gonna go take those and and implement it and bring everybody up. A rising tide raises all ships.
Matthew:Right?
Lauren:Mhmm.
Matthew:So you you have to have those kinds of conversations. And then, you know, the so the rebuttal that a lot of people say, well, well, I'm too busy. Maybe this is not the right training for you. Maybe we need to focus something else because you should be able to run your project and be able to take a day off and everything still goes smoothly while you're gone.
Lauren:Right.
Matthew:And those are the kind of leaders that we want to train and grow. And so as long as we set that tone, I think most people do wanna grow. Most people do wanna there's pressures of, like, your quote, unquote job, but to take the mindset of a cultural development and part of your job is to grow and learn so that you can get better and more effective and efficient, that really helps navigate those reluctancies to, like, to go to a training. I'll give you an example. So True.
Matthew:Depending on what the training is, sometimes you have to go to your customer. Mhmm. And so we talked about a little bit earlier about, you know, what's really changed in the talent development world. And probably about ten years ago, I really got into gamification, and really saw the value, because there's other larger companies that do gamification, you know, like the Nike fit app or, like, even Starbucks. Like, go to Starbucks, I get a coffee, then I get a point.
Matthew:Yep. And more points I get, then I can earn another free coffee. And, and so people are just naturally drawn to that. This is a phenomenal book. All reality is broken by Jamie McGonigal that just is mind blowing.
Matthew:And so we created this gamification training program that was online where people, no matter where they were, could just log on the computer, and they could go into the sandbox, accomplish a challenge that was sent to them, respond to it, earn your points, show up on a leaderboard, and then win the competition at the end of the at the end of the we had thirteen weeks of this challenge. But so I think it really depends on on what it is. So, like, I knew that I could accomplish my goal of just knowledge transfer Mhmm. With a gamification model and assigning a task to someone that could be accomplished online. So this particular one, we got feedback with while I was killing time with this concrete pour, I was able to jump on, do the challenges, learn what I need to learn, and then move on to concrete pour at 03:00 in the morning.
Matthew:So I guess, you know, kinda answer your question is it all depends on what you're trying to accomplish and aligning the vehicle to the end goal would be would be how you would accomplish that from live training to elearning training to gamification to podcast, etcetera, etcetera.
Lauren:Right.
Matthew:So
Lauren:So I know, we've talked a lot about how your, mentor has influenced a lot of your experience and beliefs and, and also just working in this field has shaped your experience and beliefs and knowledge about learning and development. But have you ever come across an employee or two or three or whoever, who have also challenged your assumptions and maybe made you think differently about the way that you were doing something or the way that you couldn't prove the way you were doing something?
Matthew:Yeah. I think I I've had the opportunity to meet a lot of different people that have impacted my approach on helping grow people. So knowing that everyone's different and knowing that everyone has different strengths, motivators, behaviors, and weaknesses, you kinda gotta craft your style a little bit different with each one and then create create a plan. So so, yeah, I feel like most people in the training development world get challenged every day. Like, I don't have time.
Matthew:I don't need this. You You know, I remember I had I had a very high level leader that we were doing leadership training, and I wanted him to look at the agenda to see if we were missing anything, see if he wanted to add anything. And at the end, he was like, yeah. This is good. I like this all, but he's like, I I don't need to go through this, though.
Matthew:Then I'm like, well, maybe you should be the first one to sign up. I didn't say that, but, like, if you have high level leaders in an organization that aren't interested in continuously growing or being part of something that they're sending their their own employees through, like, that shows a lot of character and attitude about their own leadership skills.
Lauren:Yeah.
Matthew:Because I I don't and and, again, maybe I was spoiled rotten by this one mentor leader of mine, but, like, he would never say anything like that. He would never he would never have anyone go through something that he hasn't already gone through, and he he he wouldn't he wouldn't stop learning or stop stop wanting to learn or attend training programs just because he hit a certain level in the organization. And so, you know, I've been I've been with different companies that you have certain leaders that are like, I made it to a certain level. Like, I, you know, wash my hands. I made it here.
Lauren:Yeah.
Matthew:Now I can stop learning. I can kinda relax in my personal growth and development journey. We've we've we've hit it, so there's no more work I need to do. And I just think that's that's a very flawed attitude.
Lauren:So since we're talking about forever learners, what is a skill or something that you're currently working on to develop in yourself? And then what sparked that interest?
Matthew:Yeah. I I'm I'm a super geek, and I really like to watch, like, survival shows. One of the pieces of advice I learned from one of those shows is, like, the first rule in survival is don't panic. And, you know, a lot of times in business, it's like you just get dropped off in the middle of a desert, and now you gotta figure out, you know, you get just dropped off in this problem. You just dropped off in this conflict or there's a massive issue that that you now gotta gotta figure out.
Matthew:Don't let these external factors impact how they go about handling themselves. And so, a lot of a lot of Navy Seal work is around mental toughness of how can I control my own emotions and thoughts to remain calm, to remain strategic, to remain that solid foundation for others around you because they're looking at you and how you're behaving? And if you remain calm and have a strategy and can execute in during chaos Mhmm. Like like, that's that's leadership. That is you're gonna be a good problem solver.
Matthew:And so, I really think the ability to not let your own personal emotions, behavior impact get impacted from external factors really sets you up for success and the other people around you up for success, because you can you can think clearly, you can think strategically, and take, you know, maybe a time of chaos and turn it into a positive outcome. So it's a long journey. I mean, it is it's a very, very long journey of building mental toughness for sure.
Lauren:I can understand that. Speaking of journeys, before we go, I want to ask about how things are going right now because I know this is a new chapter for you at Conger Construction. So what excites you most about your role here, the future of what you're trying to do, the future of professional development for all of your employees? What lies ahead?
Matthew:Yeah. That's a great question. I'm super excited about this opportunity, because I feel like this organization is is is a family, a family that helps support each other, a family that puts their arm around each other, and it helps lift them up. It's it's a family that looks at each other and expects high quality product, high quality interactions, and it's a family that has high values, high faith. And I and I can really lean into that.
Matthew:And so what I'm excited about this opportunity is is just really building relationships with those high quality character people, and helping them make an impact in their own personal lives, in their community, and, you know, the projects that we work on. So I'm super excited about that. From from the work perspective, it goes back to what I was saying before about building the strong blueprint to be able to build foundation.
Lauren:Mhmm.
Matthew:And so the work that I'm doing right now is really foundational. It's really understanding our true values, our true mission, what we're trying to accomplish, what our strategy is, how we're gonna execute it, and how do we use people growth and talent development as a vehicle to execute on our strategy.
Lauren:Right.
Matthew:And so what that looks like is, again, building building a blueprint that's completely transparent, provides clarity for every single person in the organization on what's expected of them, how it's expected to be done, what that ultimate career path looks like for them to be successful with a career at Conger Construction. So that's, I mean, that's why I wake up in the morning. Right? It's because doing the doing that kind of work with really good people that that care, that wanna make a difference in the community, and providing that pathway and and helping them along that journey and seeing the successes, seeing the failures too. People are gonna fall down, but you pick them up, dust them off, you learn from it, you move on.
Matthew:But that's, gosh, that that's so exciting. That's so moving because if we can put together that blueprint and that foundation, that's so solid that years come, you know, when I'm retired and this company is in a better spot than when I left it or when I was here, like, that still remains solid. That's solid foundation for people to build their lives, to build their communities around. And knowing that that I was part of creating that blueprint to build that foundation for people to grow themselves and grow their communities around them, I think that's that's the purpose. That that's a purpose I can I can feel really, really good about?
Lauren:I think that is a great legacy to leave, leaving a workplace better than you found it. You know?
Matthew:Yeah. I I would agree with that. So, yeah, this is this is fun work. I mean, if you look at the Gallup studies that are out there, about the engaged workers where it's I think it's, only 30% of employees are engaged, and they have different mechanisms to measure that.
Lauren:Yeah.
Matthew:I'm really happy to say that that I am beyond blast to have had people in my life to navigate me into a situation. I'm kinda making my mission to help those other 70% that aren't in that position and open their eyes to the options that are out there to align their strengths with the work that they do each and every day. And I think that's a good day's work that I can sleep well at night with doing that.
Lauren:I think that's a sign of a excellent people leader. So, Matthew, thank you so much for your time and your knowledge and your wisdom. I appreciate it, and I know our audience will too.
Matthew:Always good to talk to you, Lauren. Thank you for the opportunity. Thank you for the the vehicle to get the message out to help continue to grow people, hit their goals. And, I look forward to continue talking to you in the future.
Lauren:Likewise. Thanks for joining us on getting personal brought to you by lifestyle benefits experts at Compt. Remember, you can always find more stories and helpful insights on our LinkedIn and blog.