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Lead The People is your guide to unlocking your true potential as an authentic leader. Hosted by Dr. Matt Poepsel—The Godfather of Talent Optimization—this podcast dives deep into the art and science of what it takes to lead at the next level. With insightful conversations and practical strategies, each episode equips executives, strategic HR pros, and aspiring leaders with the tools it takes to boost performance, inspire teams, and drive meaningful impact. Whether exploring the latest workplace trends or tackling real-world leadership challenges, Lead The People offers an enlightened approach to leadership. Embark on a rewarding journey to become the leader your people deserve—the leader you were meant to be.
Adam Weber (00:00):
Business is problems. It's just a series of problems. And the best executive teams are the ones who can not avoid problems, but face problems in a healthy way, work together as a team, and do great things. Those are the moments when you do that. And I think most executives, when they look back on their career, the moments that they're the most proud of are those moments. Not when things were perfect, it was when we faced a hard problem and we all leaned in as a team and figured it out.
Matt Poepsel (00:34):
Hey there, leader listeners. I think you're really going to enjoy this conversation with Adam Weber. Unbelievable stuff. We are talking all about the executive team. It's special, obviously. It has a lot of impact on the organization, but we're talking about team dynamics. We're talking about the challenges that those teams can experience, and most importantly, the downstream effects and what we can do about it. One of my favorite things that Adam talks about is that the hard problems live in the margins. It's really those interfaces between a couple of functions or a couple of teams, and that's where the executives find themselves getting pulled in. They're going to need to make sure that they have their dynamics tight before they can go down in the organization and help unblock others. And then finally, that awareness. We talk so much about awareness. Once you have awareness of the dynamic and of some of the challenges, then you have a fair shot at fixing it.
(01:21):
When it's invisible, it's kind of in the room, but nobody's talking about it, that's where the problems really ensue. So have a listen to Adam's great advice for us. I think you're really going to enjoy it.
(01:35):
If you sit on an executive team, here's an uncomfortable test. Ask the room where it last changed its mind about something that actually mattered, not adjusted a number, changed its mind. Nobody can answer that fast. You found the problem that this episode is all about. The executive team is the most important team in most companies, and it's the one nobody can see. Revenue is fine, board deck is clean, something's still off. It shows up in how a room of talented, hirable, anywhere leaders behaves once the pressure hits. Adam Weber has been on both sides of that room. First as an operator who built and sold two companies. Now is a coach CEO's call when something feels wrong. He's back after last year's episode on leading heart in a metrics obsessed world, this time measuring the whole team at once. Candor, agility, ownership, altitude, and cohesion.
(02:19):
If you're the VP who joined an executive team last year and you can't tell whether that drift feeling is real, this one's for you. Adam, welcome back to the show.
Adam Weber (02:27):
Matt, it's so good to be with you. I always like when we get to hang out and even better when it's recorded and shared. So
Matt Poepsel (02:33):
Great to be here. I know. I know. We should just have cameras on us all the time. We could just totally talk shop every day. No, but it's great to see you. And I'm so excited because you've got a new problem that you've been working on, a new venture. I just really can't wait to dig into it. We got a lot to cover, so I'm just going to drop us off this way. You have sat on all kinds of different types of executive teams and you've advised so many more too. I want you to see if you can take me to a moment when you could feel something was wrong with the team. We've all had that feeling before, but it's hard to articulate it. What does it feel like when you're inside of one of those high altitude rooms where things just don't quite feel right?
Adam Weber (03:08):
Yeah, I think it's a feeling anybody who's been on an executive team has felt. And there's a lot of different feelings that show up, but the one that comes the most to mind for myself and these rooms that I'm in right now is this collective sense of I'm looking around, everybody's super talented, everybody's got a great resume. Why does this feel so freaking slow? Why are we moving so slow? And what ends up happening in that moment is it's the third meeting where you're having the same conversation over and over and nobody's saying anything new and nobody's saying the actual thing either. The real conversation starts happening in the hallway and it's usually the one faction is over on one side of the hallway sharing their perspective and the other side sharing theirs. And no one is saying the real thing to the CEO anymore.
(03:57):
And so they're keeping it to themselves. Maybe it's a well-worn pattern. I've been in environments where I've seen that go on for years, that kind of, maybe we brought something up to a CEO once and it didn't go well. And I was like, that didn't make me look great. And so I have a strong point of view, but I'm going to keep it to myself.
Matt Poepsel (04:13):
Yeah, I can see that happening. It's almost predictable. So as an example, in a software company, you can see the head of product and the head of technology continuing the conversation after the meeting when they're having the real conversation. Meanwhile, HR and finance are off having their side of the conversation and you're like, why did we end the meeting? We're all clearly still talking. What's happening here?
Adam Weber (04:31):
Right. And it's like, how many weeks do we keep doing that? We show up, we don't have a great plan for what we're talking about, and then we just sort of end up passing time. And what we end up doing is talking about one of the least important things to talk about, whatever it is. It's the easy topic, but it doesn't actually move anything. We're still a bottleneck as an executive team in that environment. It's
Matt Poepsel (04:50):
Going to be frustrating for the CEO too, who knows that there's a certain amount of realness that we need to have. And even if they open the door, it doesn't mean people are necessarily going to walk through it because even if they're not necessarily threatened by the CEO, maybe it's just not seen as polite. You don't want to call somebody out for if they have an idea. I'll just touch base with them after the meeting and not in front of the mixed company. Is that some of the dynamic that can happen?
Adam Weber (05:13):
Yeah. Some CEOs have pretty strong reactions when you have the courage to bring up a thing different than their perspective, even though they need to hear it. And so they've got growing to do on their end and how they receive information. Executives have a duty to share information that is their perspective that helps and protects the business. When you think about CEOs, and you'll see this all the time like, oh, it's so lonely. This is one of the moments they're talking about when they're paying all this money for these great executives to be on a team and they can deep down tell that we're not talking about the real stuff. Or just something's off and I cannot put my finger on what is not working right now.
Matt Poepsel (05:51):
And one of the most popular remedies perhaps is, oh, let's have an offsite. We got to get the team offsite. Let's get out of the building. And you've told me before that works for probably about 90 days or so, best case scenario. What is it that makes the offsite sort of so amorphous in terms of its lasting impact?
Adam Weber (06:08):
90 days might even be generous. I think what really happens, especially at good ones, you break through. We'll talk about these five signals that make a healthy executive team, and one of them is altitude. So altitude is your ability to get out of the day-to-day and really think collectively about the business. Are you up at a high enough level where you can really think about the business? And offsites are an incredible resource for that. The atmosphere in the meeting is different. We're starting to actually say some of those conversations that we're not saying in the day-to-day. And maybe we brought in an outside facilitator who facilitated something about our dysfunction or something about how we operate together, whatever it may be. And one person cried and it's a real thing and it really is powerful. But it also does have a bit of a summer camp feel to it.
(06:57):
It has that where you have the summer camp girlfriend and you think you're in love and then you get back to the real world. And then on Tuesday, when you face that same problem, you're back in that low altitude mode and you start repeating the same old patterns. And so that magical moment doesn't sustain itself.
Matt Poepsel (07:13):
Yeah, it's so true. You get out and you get to set up the environment in a certain way, but it's kind of just like vacation. You're like, "I feel so relaxed." You go back to work for five minutes and then all of a sudden it unwinds itself.
Adam Weber (07:23):
Every exec deals with this, that competing altitude challenge where it's like I have to show up in the exec room and work on the whole business. And then right before that meeting, there was some wild, crazy fire that came up. And then right after that meeting, you're constantly dealing with this push-pull in between those two.
Matt Poepsel (07:39):
Yeah, like an elevator that's just going up and down and up and down. And you're like, "Oh my gosh, I can't hardly get my head straight." I love it. Well, you went there and I want to spend most of our time today talking about this new solution that you've created. You mentioned the dynamics that an effective executive team needs to have five different signals. And I'll name them again, candor, agility, ownership, altitude, and cohesion. I love them all equally, and I'm sure you do too. But how did you land on those five? What is it based on your experience or where did they come from that you said these are the five that really help an executive team perform at its best?
Adam Weber (08:10):
It's based on thousands of hours of coaching and spending a lot of time with teams. My background originally, my first company was Emplify where we measured cultures, so employee bases. And then we coached executives on how to build high performance teams. And from that angle, I kept running into these challenges of I could tell them every tip in the book to build a great culture, but then there was still a bottleneck and that bottleneck was the executive team. So then you think about the big story of my life, then I become an executive coach to start fixing the top of the organization. But it's only working one-on-one with people and it's not solving that team as a group has a set of traits that dictate whether or not they accelerate the company or whether or not they hold the company back. Far too often, and employees hear this and they'll go, "Yep," nodding their head.
(08:59):
The executive team is a bottleneck inside of the org. It makes things feel slow. And so those five are my spin and my partner Andrew's spin on a lot of legacy research, but also in a fresh way that meets the world where it is today. And that's what we're really trying to do is bring those words to life so they have new meaning. It's really how those work at the team level. How does the whole team do with those five? Candor is not just, can I say hard things? It's also, can I hear hard things? A lot of executives are great at saying hard things, not half of them. But hearing a hard thing, a different perspective than your own and creating a safe environment where it's okay to have differing opinions. Agility is like, are we still learning? Are we growing? Are we adapting to the modern world that is changing so fast right now?
(09:48):
Or are we set in our old ways doing a playbook that was before AI and recreating a world we've already done? Ownership and CEOs feel this is like, do the executives push things forward themselves? Are they accountable to their results? I wish it were not true, but I have seen this with the teams I work with. Some execs are missing numbers and then kind of hiding, like hoping it doesn't get brought up, hoping the system doesn't flag it or there's always some excuse and it's like, no, are you accountable to your results? And do you recognize your role in achieving those results? Altitude's the one we talked about. Are you able to maintain that high level view of the company or are you just working on your function? Or do you show up and represent the whole business? And then cohesion, that's like the end product of all these things coming together.
(10:32):
Are we as a group, a unit? And when we make a hard decision, healthy teams kind of go out and push that as one unified front. A common thing that we run into is I call it commiserating down. Well, I didn't get my way and then I have to get in front of my team and they're going to ask that one question I know they're going to ask. And instead of representing the executive team, I commiserate down with them, which creates all sorts of issues inside of cultures too.
Matt Poepsel (11:02):
Yeah. I really love the fact that you're highlighting the team dynamics. I've rarely seen a situation where an executive team is not working together super well, let's just say, that it gets better downstream as you go further down the organization because it can whipsaw entire functions and departments and inadvertently pit them against each other. So I think a highly functioning executive team should be the A, number one priority for a CEO. If they know that they're in a room that's not working together well, don't expect the business to just get better in spite of it. So I love that you're shining a light on that.
Adam Weber (11:33):
Yeah, I think you're spot on. That's so true too. And I think how often do CEOs go, "Well, this group isn't okay, but maybe our product's the right fit in the market or we've got enough traction or we've got great managers beneath." It'll all work itself out. And what you end up with in that environment is just a bunch of individual kingdoms that all operate, but where work gets lost is in the margins. It's when the two departments that are at odds with each other have to collaborate. And most of the hard work inside of a business, not the keep the lights on work, but the, we're going to do something totally different or we're trying to solve a hard problem. It happens in the margins right between two departments. And so that's where that executive team alignment and health is so critical.
Matt Poepsel (12:16):
Yeah, I think it's so true. One of those things where the team dynamics are palpable in a way, but they're also hard to pin down, which is why I love the five dimensions you're bringing to this. These are the things that we need to have. But my question for you, Adam, is it better to have a common strength in an area? What if everybody's really good at candor? Or is it better that we have balance or that we compliment each other? What's the configuration ideally for a team?
Adam Weber (12:39):
I think that all five of these are necessary to create kind of that accelerator, top performing executive team. And so the key is balance. Nobody's perfect, but the key is balance. And with awareness, I know where we as a team, as a collective unit sit on this issue. And so we're going to name it and then we're going to work on our development with it. A really common challenge, I'll just say a 300-person org or a 200 person company. They have a fully formed executive team, but a lot of the executives likely worked their way up through the function. So they're functional masters who then are first time executives. And that's a good environment where they might struggle with altitude collectively because every single person is used to leading their function and not working on the business. Well, that's a learned skill of becoming an executive.
(13:27):
On this podcast, you and I actually talked about this last episode we were on together. Management is a learned skill. We dump people into management and then somehow expect them to become like exceptional managers. This is the same thing that happens with executives. They earn their way onto the executive team by being a functional master, but they haven't gained the executive level competencies that make teams great.
Matt Poepsel (13:49):
I think one of the things that I'm really empathetic to CEOs to a point, and I say that because it's a hard job. It really is. And I don't think we think about CEOs in that light very much, but I think that CEOs who have a poorly functioning team dynamic have this undue burden. They have to do more of the team's job. And it sounds absolutely exhausting to me. Now having said that, I say limited empathy because it's up to them to fix it by working with people like you and using these types of tools. That's why I say there's a limit to that empathy. But let's talk about that for a second. What happens when the CEO's calendar is chock-a-block full of fires and they're just feeling like, "Am I the only one who sees this? Am I the only one who's going to drag this company up this hill?" How does that show up for a CEO when they're feeling that way?
Adam Weber (14:34):
It's interesting how altitude cascades itself. When a CEO isn't able to operate, they start rescuing. So sometimes that is work of a CEO to one, stop rescuing the development of their executives by covering for them. Literally right before I started recording, I was having coffee with a CEO. He was sharing his own journey of his own life of where it came from the CFO function. And so what he would do is he would do some rescuing of helping fix things at the last minute before a board meeting or things like that. And so you're pulling down your altitude and simultaneously then you're pulling down the altitude of that next level. And that simply cascades throughout an organization as well. It's not an easy problem to solve, but I do think it's a common thing that happens though.
Matt Poepsel (15:20):
Yeah. And I think what's really powerful about your approach, and I'm so excited about it, you've got a visual component, you've got data you're collecting, you're presenting it in a way that demystifies what's happening, and you put it under this amazing name Helm, which is like you're at the helm, you got to have your instrument panel, so to speak. And in that you have an actual heat map where it kind of shows, I'm not sure the term, but when you think about the numbers on it, you mentioned that we need to have a certain amount of these things. So I'm wondering what it's like with a peer who might be saying like, "I'm at a two and everybody else around me's at a four." That's a lot of transparency and some of that feeling. How do you turn that visibility into the most productive thing possible without experiencing some of the downside?
Adam Weber (16:03):
Yeah, I mean it's a great question. It's something like we're really leaning into and trying to build this concept with teams that one, if you've made it into the executive room, what we're after are these teams that want to be great. And we also want to remind people that what we're working on is the team as a unit first and foremost, the big problem and challenge that we're solving. Now we want people, we want individuals to have their own clarity into their role and how to get better. One, we take a decidedly optimistic view for each executive and go, "Hey, this is where you are, but also this is what growth looks like for you." And not just growth for you, but how your growth would impact the team as a unit or as a whole. We're really trying to frame everything we do around growth, not grading.
(16:46):
That is really the spirit that we're after where every single leader on the team is thriving, but people have clarity on areas that are growth edges for them, where they're still emerging as well. And a lot of times, and I'm sure you've experienced this on leadership teams too, a low score on one of these things sometimes is a condition of the team, not of the individual too. And so we've got aspects that, by the way, are not fully public to each executive. We're trying to give them their own visibility. So we share to the team what's helpful for the team's growth, and then we let each individual have a clear read and clear picture of where they actually are as well.
Matt Poepsel (17:21):
Yeah, I think that's such a great point. And it's very similar to if you ever try to get in shape and you're working with a nutrition coach or a fitness coach or whatever, and they're like, "Okay, step on the scale." You're like, "Oh boy, here we go." It's just a number. We can get to wherever you want, wherever your picture of fitness is, but we need to measure. We need to see where we're at. We need to track our progress. So I think I like the idea that you're taking this team that wants to be great, have a reasonable amount of psychological safety, you're framing it very well. And I think it's such an important point that the team dynamic could take a certain type of person and make them less effective. And I don't think we talk about that often enough. So if I have another executive who just is struggling with altitude and they just won't think strategically and long-term, that could show up in my candor.
(18:04):
I'm like, "I'm tired of bringing this up because you just won't go there." There's a reciprocal effect or I guess things are more interconnected than they might seem. So I like that you're framing it that way so that somebody doesn't look at their number and be like, "Oh boy, everybody's looking at me and now I'm on the way out." That could be an understandable reaction otherwise.
Adam Weber (18:20):
And I think that I'm tired of bringing this up is such a common feeling that an executive feels. And we don't expose each individual's score to everybody else, by the way. Just the CEO would have access to that and then the individual has access to their own number. But beyond that, what we're really trying to do is create, because that's just the product side, which is really just serves as a guide for what conversations we as coaches need to have with the team. And so we come in and use that so we don't waste time. So we are productive in solving the right problems on the team. So we get them having the right conversation. So we've got a series of workshops that we run based on what we learn inside the data. So it's kind of data-driven guidance, but ultimately what it's setting up are these series of conversations for them.
(19:06):
Hey, let's practice these elephant conversations. The things that we're not talking about, let's put those on the table. Let's talk about candor, both what it is, but let's start actually practicing saying those things. And you can imagine with each of those signals, those aren't just like one-time conversations. There's some real weighty, there are years long issues that oftentimes need a safe space and a facilitator to help kind of unlock. But what happens is when you take these things that it's almost like a pressure cooker, these taboo topics that create issues on executive teams, once you start bringing them into the light, it feels like it's going to be the most difficult thing ever to say that thing out loud that's never been said out loud. But once it's in the light and it's open, it starts to unlock things and you start to create this friction starts to be reduced and you start to look at it and go, "Oh, that wasn't as scary as I thought it was." But it's a hard thing to do without outside support.
(20:02):
These are real deal heavy topics that you've gotten to because of the conditions that have been created.
Matt Poepsel (20:09):
And I really like the combined effect of having something like a product that serves as a guidance system. It's got real data and visuals behind it, but the ongoing support of an outsider to help unlock this. And it's an unfolding too, because behavior change takes time for any individual. It certainly takes time for a group and for a team because it's more complex. So over the course of, let's say, 12, 18 months working with a client, the executive team, how does that unfolding happen? What might it look like? I'm hearing workshops, I'm hearing some individual coaching. It's a very holistic approach you've put together. How does that actually unfold over the course of time?
Adam Weber (20:44):
It starts like our phase one is a leadership diagnostic. We go out and get feedback on every single executive and the team as a unit. And as we take all the individual data, we merge it together to get a cohesive look at how that team is functioning. Then we meet with the CEO, make sure they've got kind of clarity on, "Hey, here's some real opportunity for you to lean into. This is the way that you could get the most out of each person on your team and help them develop on their own journey." So I coach half CEOs, half other executives. And the other executive bucket is begging for better development from CEOs. They are the least developed function inside of all companies. Down in the org, we're developing our people. You get up to this level and the CEO's super busy or they don't know what to work on.
(21:30):
And so we give the CEO actual guidance on what to work on. And then we run a team session and start talking about what we learned in the data and get them talking about, but how's this really show up? Where do you see these strong things that we found? Our goal is also to really highlight strengths and help them know what those superpowers are that they can lean into. Talk about where those opportunities are and how does that really show up? So we build some trust with them. And then we have them build their own growth plans and share it back. It's the coolest session we run. They show up each individual and share, "Hey, here's what I learned and here's how I'm committed to growing." And then from there we lay out a roadmap. It usually looks like two hours a month where we meet with the whole team and we facilitate the hardest conversations that need to be had.
(22:13):
So it's a safe container, but it's more disciplined and consistent than just an offsite once a year. It can look different for different teams. It could be once a quarter, but our ideal is that we're meeting with teams once a month and working through those challenges and then remeasuring. Are we making progress as a team? Are we really unlocking this team?
Matt Poepsel (22:30):
From what I'm picking up, it's high data, high context, and high touch. It's the things that are really hard to do for yourself. If you're an executive team, you're like, when am I going to take the time to actually decipher all this stuff? It's pretty challenging. So I like that a lot. And one of the last questions I want to ask you here is, you talk about wanting to rid the world of bad leadership, bad executive leadership. I love it, but it's a big swing. It's a big swing, Adam. You're shooting for the fences here. So if it works the way that you hope it does, what's different for certainly the executive team, but what's almost even the trickle down effect? What do you see as really fueling your passion for getting executive leadership to where it needs to be?
Adam Weber (23:08):
I view this as a continuation of a journey I started almost 15 years ago, a long time ago, working on company cultures and really trying to create high performance teams. I think the big swing for me though is teams of people that are showing up as their healthy best version of themselves and that we create this dynamic on an executive team that ripples throughout the whole organization. That perfect picture I had when I started my first culture and engagement company of a highly engaged company needs a group of highly engaged leaders who are willing to be real with each other. One of the most common phrases I say in coaching is business is problems. It's just a series of problems. And the best executive teams are the ones who can not avoid problems, but face problems in a healthy way, work together as a team, and do great things.
(23:59):
I think most executives, when they look back on their career, the moments that they're the most proud of are those moments. Not when things were perfect, it was when we faced a hard problem and we all leaned in as a team and figured it out. And so that then you look back and you go, "Hey, that moment when we were all working together, I want to create those moments for teams."
Matt Poepsel (24:17):
Yeah. And it's hard to imagine that impact you talk about and that satisfaction is going to happen if we just don't get those team dynamics at the highest level to where they need to be. It's not going to happen on its own.
Adam Weber (24:28):
It doesn't happen on its own. It's the bottleneck or it's the accelerator and everything really does hinge on that team being unlocked.
Matt Poepsel (24:35):
Well, right now everything's going to hinge on your ability and mine to answer a trivia question. You've been on the show before. I just can't help it. Are we smarter than AI, Adam? That's going to be the question. You and I are team. We're going to get a question. I'm confident in
Adam Weber (24:46):
Our answer. I'm confident in my answer if I'm smarter than AI. I'm not sure it's a yes.
Matt Poepsel (24:52):
But either way, you're not disclosing, but you're confident.
Adam Weber (24:54):
But I'm confident.
Matt Poepsel (24:55):
I went and I looked at a podcast appearance you were on. It was something on YouTube. And you mentioned something about maybe at on time you were an aspiring comedian or something about comedy. So I ripped on that. I have similar interests and I enjoy a good. Is that true?
Adam Weber (25:07):
Oh yeah. Yeah. It's funny because I've never actually done it. I just say that. My business partner, Andrew, actually does stand up comedy. He's really good. I just say I want to do it and then I chicken out and then try to say jokes on podcasts.
Matt Poepsel (25:18):
Story for another day, but I had a boss one time and he said, "You're funny, but you could be funnier." Sent me to a week-long comedy class to do standup, basically. It was amazing. Yeah, we'll have to talk about that sometime, but it's not for the faint of heart, that's for sure. But we're going to have a simple trivia question here. And it is this, which legendary comedian and actor voiced the genie in Disney's Aladdin and starred in Mrs. Doubtfire? Is it A, Jim Carey, B, Robin Williams or C, Steve Martin? Oh, just not even without - Be shut
Adam Weber (25:42):
It down. Robin Williams, we
Matt Poepsel (25:43):
Got that one. All over. Sorry,
Adam Weber (25:45):
AI.Don't
Matt Poepsel (25:46):
Have to be any sort of genius. Yeah, you're not stumping us with that one. That is absolutely the correct answer, of course. Very nicely done. Adam, I have a much better question for you though, which is where can my listeners go to learn more about you and all the great work you're doing?
Adam Weber (25:58):
Two easy ways to connect. Our website is helmteams.co. So helmteams.co. And then my name's Adam Weber. Find me on LinkedIn. I try to post about your own personal growth and development, and then these leadership team dynamics as well. Try to share content that's meaningful and real at least three times a week. So those would be the two places to connect with me.
Matt Poepsel (26:18):
All right, listeners, I'm going to have those links for you in the show notes. You're only one click away from getting in touch with Adam, learning more about his amazing suite of executive tools. Adam, thanks so much for coming back onto the show, making a second amazing appearance. Really appreciate you.
Adam Weber (26:31):
Matt, you're the best. Thank you so much for having me. It was great to be with you.