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The Restaurant Roadmap is your guide to building and running a successful restaurant. Each episode explores the full journey of operations—from planning and development to menu design, execution, and growth. Hosts Danny Bendas, Amanda Stokes, and Chef Eric Lauer bring decades of expertise, joined by industry leaders and restaurant professionals who share their insights and stories. Together, they uncover strategies, tools, and lessons that help operators improve performance, strengthen teams, and elevate the guest experience. Whether you’re opening your first location or refining an established brand, The Restaurant Roadmap equips you to navigate every step with confidence.
Danny: Welcome to The Restaurant Roadmap podcast, powered by Synergy Restaurant Consultants, your go-to source for actionable insights and real-world strategies from the industry’s top experts, clients, and special guests. Whether you’re building a new concept or refining an existing one, we’re here to help you create a forward-thinking sustainable brand, elevate guest experience, streamline operations and maximize your bottom line. With decades of hands-on experience, our mission is simple: to deliver practical, proven solutions to the everyday challenges restaurant operators face. Let’s dive in and get to work.
Danny: Hello everyone. This is Danny, managing partner of Synergy Restaurant Consultants. Welcome to The Restaurant Roadmap, powered by Synergy. We have a great 40 minutes or so today to talk about the front-of-the-house. We’ve talked about back-of-house, supply chain, finance. We have two great guests that know the front-of-the-house very, very well that we’re going to give you a bunch of insights today. So, I want to welcome Amanda Stokes. Amanda, how are you?
Amanda: I’m great, Danny. How are you doing today?
Danny: I’m doing great. And Eric Lauer. How’s he doing, buddy?
Eric: Doing great, Danny. Glad to be here.
Danny: Yeah. So, you know, I know everybody knows who you guys are. We’ve done a lot of these podcasts before and everybody appreciates all of your expertise or insight and those sorts of things. So, front-of-house today, we’re going to be talking about diving into one of the most important pieces of your business is very often misunderstood. People don’t really—you know, they think of, we’re just going to deliver food or it’s not—in whatever it is. We really want to take a deep dive into what the front-of-the-house is really all about.
Amanda: Yeah, so I think, you know, today we’re really going to talk about, you know, how to build front-of-the-house systems that align with throughput, you know, how to coach managers across the entire operation to build consistency. And a lot of people think that, you know, consistency is really a back-of-the-house thing, but really it is a front-of-the-house thing, and so you have to have front-of-the-house systems that drive consistency. So, front-of-the-house excellence doesn’t happen by accident. It happens, we build through systems that are repeatable and executable. So, I think we’re really going to dive into the heart of that tonight.
Danny: Yeah, you know, and Eric, I wanted to have you comment quickly on, you know, front-of-the-house is key. You know, and you’re a back-of-house guy, probably more than front-of-house, so there’s always this yin and yang with the back and the front. So, I wanted to get your take on all of this stuff as well.
Eric: Yeah, absolutely. So, the front-of-the-house really dictates the business flow of the restaurant on every evening, right, or during lunch service. You know, they dictate throughput. They also dictate the business side of it that nobody really looks at it. A lot of people think about the service side, but if you think through, you know, check average and PPA, the servers drive that, and then that really determines your labor percentage, right?
So, if they can get more sales from each guest that’s in the building, your labor percentage drops, and it makes it easier to run your business. And also, if they’re ringing checks in correctly, you know, they’re not going from table to table to table and grabbing all 12 orders, ringing it all into the kitchen at once and ruining the flow of the business. You know, they really impact the bottom line more than most people realize.
Danny: Yeah, you know, it’s interesting. I was at a restaurant over Christmas in Chicago visiting family, and they closed between, like, 3:30 and five o’clock, so, like, at, like, 4:55, all of a sudden, like, all these guests and tables started coming into the dining room, and I was thinking about this podcast, going, man, I feel sorry for the kitchen. They’re just going to get hammered here at about 15 minutes, and the bartenders, right? So, you know, we’re going to talk about how you mitigate that to get a really smooth front-of-the-house flow in operations. So, we want to talk about systems, processes, differentiated service models.
How do you build systems that are going to prevent something like that from happening? I think to your point, both of you guys, the front-of-house, the greeter, really dictates how the whole restaurant flows. Like, if you just sit in waves all day, it’s just murder on everybody, as opposed to having a really nice, steady, you know, seating. And the greeter, whoever’s in charge of managing the seating in the dining room, really kind of manages a whole lot. And then if you’re a back-of-house person, you know, you think about the expediter and the kitchen managing throughput. You know, between the two, they kind of run the joint, right?
So, we’re going to be talking a lot about that. And you know how to coach managers. We want to talk about what kind of metrics we want to look for. And what are we thinking about in terms of what’s happening, you know, whether it’s technology, what’s shaping the industry and what’s the future of hospitality?
Amanda: So hey, I want to go back to one thing you said, with the host. And so, I used to think of that person as my air traffic controller. They were the person that just kept everything flowing. And I think for many years, we used to put the least experienced person who’s never worked in a restaurant up there. They were the greenest, they were the youngest, they were the least confident person, and that person, to your point, controlled everything.
If we had a rough turn where we seated it once, it would happen all night. It would be virtually impossible to get out of that, you know, fast turn, where they all come in at once and they leave at once. So, I think the smart operators put somebody there that’s competent enough to control the flow of the business and have the right balance of personality. I think that position is one that is just typically not staffed with the best person.
Danny: Yeah, yeah, you’re absolutely right. Usually, it’s like an entry point for someone that wants to work in the restaurant to be a server. That’s probably the worst place you can put them, you know, as opposed to being a busser or something else.
Amanda: Let me go back to that also, one second, with Eric. I know that in his past, he tells a story about this woman that he put at the door that was just, like, the best host in history, that controlled everything, and it was almost like—you said it was like having another manager in the building.
Eric: It really was. And the best part of that story is, I was picking my kids up at the bus stop, and she was picking her kids up at the bus stop, and she had mentioned that she needed just a job during the daytime, and I needed a lunch host. You know, our business was building in the lunch section, and I wanted to add a host. Added her to it. Not only did it help my throughput, but it built sales because she was so engaging with the guests, and she was that person that you want, the bright smile when you’re walking in, holding the door and thanking you for coming walking out, and just it the exact thing Amanda talked about: the opposite of that very green young person. This was someone who had business acumen, who had hospitality genes, she knew what we needed, and she did a great job. It was phenomenal. I never worried about anything when she was in the building up there.
Danny: Yeah, and, you know, we talk about first impressions and last impressions, right? I mean that literally, that’s the first impression. My first restaurant job when I was 16 years old, you know, the owner of the restaurant, everybody knew him by name. He knew everybody by name. He greeted, he sat.
He was the ambassador. You know, he was the brand, really, for all intents and purposes. He was the face of the brand, he was the culture, it just really set the entire mood. So, I think the greeter is really, really a very critical part of it, to everybody’s point. You know, really [unintelligible 00:08:00] notice or forgotten or an afterthought, which is kind of a scary thing when you really think about it, right? So, how does a brand identify its service identity? And how does it scale? How does it maintain that cohesive and that great service and that great mindset?
Amanda: You have to have great training systems from the beginning. I’m a big fan of setting the service standard from day one, meaning I’m not a fan of a scripted service model, meaning, “Hi, my name is Danny. I’ll be your server today.” I like to say these are the six service points that we hit at every table, and I want you to bring your personality, Danny, to work, and you do it the way that makes you feel the most comfortable and makes you able to connect with guests. So, I think 20 years ago, our service philosophy was, you have to say these exact things. This is our service script.
Now, our philosophy is, bring your whole self to work, be you because I hired you. I don’t want you to be me. And so, I think that that dictates the service style, and it’s repeatable because it’s individualized. And so, I think when you have a service model that’s individualized, it makes somebody more comfortable. I will never remember a script. You could tell it to me ten times. I would have been a horrible actress because I like the idea that people have the ability to change it up and read the guest. It’s really important because the way you and your wife want to be waited on at the bar might be different than you know, Eric and his wife being waited on at the bar. It’s giving that person the autonomy to deliver the experience that the guest wants, not the experience that we think every guest wants.
Danny: Well, and that’s getting again, reading tables, understanding your guests, learning your guests, and all that sort of stuff. So, Eric, anything you want to add?
Eric: Yeah, I think you know the evolution of the guest expectation has changed, right? In the ’70s and ’80s, everybody went to Fridays and they wanted the exact same expectated service. But today, you know, people walk in, they go to so many different places. There’s a million different experiences you can have. They don’t want that cardboard cutout service.
They wanted to be treated special, they wanted to feel valued, they want to know that when they come into your establishment, that person greets them as an individual, not as just somebody walking through the door. So, that has changed in our culture, and I think that hospitality has done a very good job reflecting that change, for the most part. And if they haven’t, you’ve seen some dinosaur brands kind of go extinct. So, we’ve all seen what happens when you don’t change with the evolution.
Danny: Yeah, and I think, you know, it’s really interesting, and not that this is any sort of a prediction that’s been going on for a long time, but you know, 30 years ago, in order for chains to grow, they had to have these systems and standards and all of these processes in place. So, they basically tried to create robots. Well, I think in the industry now, a lot of successful companies, they don’t necessarily roll out a chain. They have all these different restaurants underneath their umbrella, and they’re all sort of independently operated, but owned by a company, right? And again, being in Chicago over Christmas, you think about the Melman Group and, like, they don’t build chains necessarily. They build a restaurant that becomes a localized favorite.
And I think that is a trend that we’re seeing more and more, where they’re still a really big company, but they’re building individual brands, which is a lot more creative and a lot more fun, right? So, the other thing, I think, is interesting, many, many years ago, we actually had a consultant work with us, and you know, he was an interesting character. And when he sat down at a table and when the server came up, he would say, “Hey, hi, my name is Mike. I’m going to be your customer today,” because he got so tired of every server saying, “Hi, my name is Julie. I’m going to be your server today,” right? So, he said he used to start that off by harassing the server before anything ever happened, which was sort of embarrassing, but that was just the way he was, right? So anyway.
Amanda: So, that brings me to a point. There’s a difference between hospitality standards and brand standards, right? So, if our hospitality standard is to connect, right, that’s our hospitality standard. A brand standard might be to make sure that you offer, suggest a starter to every table. There’s a difference and great leaders know the difference, so that people don’t feel tethered to doing a specific robotic thing, like, “Hi, my name is.” And I think the best leaders in the business, the best brands, really understand that.
Danny: Absolutely agree. So, what does it look like if you engineer a front-of-house service flow that just helps encapsulate all these things and help you grow sort of organically, but not robotically, if robotically is a phrase. Eric, what do you think?
Eric: I think you just have to you—you have to know your audience, number one. You have to meet your audience where they are, right? Your guests coming in, they’re going to tell you exactly what they want. And the best leaders have the thumb on the pulse of their community and they know exactly how to meet their guest. So, it’s not basically, you know, that ten-step service that we used to do back in the day.
It’s, this table might need a little more extra time and a tour through the menu that we used to do with everybody. This guest comes in three times a week; they know what they want. You know they want you to say, “Hey, Tom. Great to see you again. I’ll have your coke right over.” Right? And that’s what it’s all about.
So, it’s really reading the guest and the best managers and the best leaders partner those folks that are emotionally intelligent and can meet the guests where they are with the other servers next to them, who are very task-oriented because they’ll kind of flow together, and it really makes that dining area a better spot in the restaurant.
Amanda: Yeah, we do a lot of openings for clients, and so I love the opportunity to kind of start from the beginning. I say it’s like an empty Etch-A-Sketch, for those old enough to remember what that is. And so, I think what our team does really well is we map those friction points that could cause, not just friction for the guest, but friction for the kitchen. It’s like what’s going to happen? And I think it’s understanding what creates the best flow in the restaurant.
Like, years ago, just something that would be a friction point for a guest was seating the whole back of the restaurant first. So, a guest walks into an empty restaurant with no energy. That doesn’t feel great for the guest. So, it’s understanding from the beginning that we’re not going to do that. Or, hey, we’re going to fill up one server and then the next server, and what friction point does that cause?
So, I think it’s really understanding how to create the smoothest experience for not just the guests, for the server, for the cooks, for the manager, and mapping that out in the beginning. And if you don’t have the luxury of creating that from the beginning, it’s going back, kind of working backwards, and seeing what does that look like, asking your team, what are the friction points, what’s causing this, identifying them, putting systems in to make sure that you eliminate that.
Danny: And I think the other thing that’s important, that I think oftentimes goes unnoticed, is when you’re actually designing your restaurant, if you were starting over again, how do you create areas where you can enlarge your dining room or shrink your dining room based on your volume? Because you walk into this huge restaurant and it’s not very busy, you don’t feel the same energy where, if you could sort of petition a section, close a section, seat an area, so you still have that, you know, that energy, I think. And I think in design, that’s something that, as we look at design, we always try to look at that. You know, and then it gets down, we’re going to talk about staffing and labor metrics here in a minute, but it allows you to upsize and downsize, but still feel like you’re in a restaurant that has life, versus one table is, like, all the way over there or the other tables all the way over here.
But Eric, I want to ask you a question. And things have changed over a whole bunch of years, but in the old days, at least for me anyway, like, the front-of-the-house and the back-of-the-house were two unique kingdoms, and when carpet ended and tile started, that’s where the war started, right? So, that’s changed, I think, for the better, so I’d like to get some insights from you on these—they have to work together, right? Otherwise nobody wins, right? So, what do you think?
Eric: Well, we’ve talked about dinosaur brands. I think when we’re looking at some of those dinosaur chefs that were led by just the iron fist, and you didn’t do anything in my kitchen. And we’ve done assessments over the last couple of years and we’ve seen these folks, but they’re far and few between now versus where it was very commonplace before. We were just in a restaurant, and we watched one of the cooks do something, and I waited to watch the chef’s reaction, and I thought he was going to go up one side of him and down the other side, and he calmly walked to the back station, and he coached him very calmly and worked him through the issue. And I was so happy to see it because this was a seasoned chef with a very strong reputation in the market he works in, and he was very calm and talked through it with them, and it was inspiring for me to see.
And then how that translates now is, you have this chef who is not screaming at the cooks and yelling at the cooks, and treating them like they want to be treated. So, now they’re not lashing out at the servers because of a simple mistake because they see when they make a mistake that’s not the way it’s being handled. So, now you have these folks that are working cohesively and as a team, showing mutual respect, and then now that server goes out of the kitchen and into the dining room, and they have a clear mind and head and they’re not thinking about how they just got yelled at for a simple mistake. So, now they can give the best guest service to the guests that are dining in our dining rooms. It’s changed a lot, and for me, I’d love to see it because we’ve all been there. You know, at certain points in my career, I was that chef, and I’m glad I’ve evolved away from that. So, it’s fun to watch nowadays.
Danny: I’m glad that you were at first to admit that because I was about to admit that, too. When I was young, you know, it was like, “Get out of my kitchen, damn it. I’m in charge.”
Eric: I started in Navy kitchens, right? So, in Navy kitchens, there’s no nice way to say anything. It’s very blunt, it’s to the point, and if you didn’t like it, you were brought to the reefer decks, and [laugh] there was a different conversation, but mouths weren’t moving. It was something else.
Danny: And Amanda, it’s hard to be in tears and walk out through the dining room with a smile on your face to approach the next table that you have, right?
Amanda: I think it’s creating systems that feel cohesive for everybody, and that starts with communicating with one person to communicate with the kitchen, and teaching the importance of that, having a great expediter that drives everything that’s going on behind the line in the kitchen, that helps bridge that gap between some of the frustrations of what’s happening on the cooks line to what’s happening on the front server line. I think when you have that, you have streamlined communication, you have respect, I think it makes it easier for everybody to operate. I think those days of the yelling chef or the yelling expediter doesn’t work. I think, you know, I’ve seen a lot more chefs that are more front-of-the-house oriented because, let’s face it, the front-of-the-house can’t operate without the back-of-the-house, back-of-the house can’t operate without the front-of-the-house, and the most successful restaurants, you know, figure that out. And it all lies between great communication and having respect for what everybody does.
Danny: Well again, which is why we always advocate, when you do a pre-shift meeting, having—if you can—the front and the back-of-the-house so, you know, everybody’s communicating, and everybody is in tandem. You know, and also, I think. You know, kitchens, in certain ways, have to be very dictatorial, but they can be dictatorial in a nice way. And so, to your point, Amanda, there’s one point of contact in the kitchen, if you need a change or there’s a problem. But then, you know, everybody listens to that one person because in order to make everything coordinated, it has to work.
Amanda: I’m going to say something unpopular, too. It boils down—you know, everything goes back to training. That’s not just because I have a passion for it, but when you have a service team that is ill-prepared to understand the food, doesn’t understand what could be eliminated and what could be changed, it causes friction points with the kitchen. You know, you’ll commonly hear, like, these, “Servers are idiots.” Well, no, they’re not idiots. They just weren’t trained correctly. So, I think it’s reducing those friction points through good training, understanding the food, not ringing in silly stuff that makes the kitchen crazy. You know, those are the things that help make it cohesive.
Eric: Real quick, I will add to that because there’s two things I want to add. Number one, yes, the training and everything is the most important, and ensuring everybody consistently follows it because if you have one sous chef who does it, he does it his way, and another sous chef does it his way, and they’re the people communicating to the line at different points, that’s going to cause friction as well. And then, just to follow up on the training thing, one of my favorite items I’ve ever seen rung up in the history of my time was we had a cheese ravioli dish. And it’s ravioli, so it’s way more important than, like, a simple pasta and way more expensive than a simple pasta, and a server rang up cheese ravioli, sub bowtie [laugh]. So, they charge this guest, like, twice as much as just a simple pasta with sauce. So, it was one of the—and the cooks all laughed. And it was good, but you know, that’s a funny aspect of it. How many times do we see the other aspect where they bring up something so ridiculous that causes a lot of issues.
Danny: Yeah, where can I get that ravioli with meat instead of cheese, right? But I think the other big point is you can’t have an intimidation factor where servers aren’t afraid to give feedback. You know, Amanda, you talk all the time about, you don’t want the guests would be doing your line check for you, and the servers have to have the ability, without getting screamed at, if they’re not comfortable serving something, they need to be able to speak up, and there should be no questions asked. And you know, they’re the ones that have to face the guests and deal with the problem, so they should feel very comfortable to give feedback if they don’t feel the product is right or there’s a problem.
Amanda: There’s a culture of feedback in your restaurant, and you have set this great culture that the guest is the primary function, right? Sometimes we lose sight. Why are we in this business? We’re in this business to take great care of guests, and if that is the central theme through your culture, then everybody should feel comfortable saying, “Hey, I’m not comfortable serving this.” And it’s not a, you know, you’re a terrible cook and I can’t serve this; it’s a, this doesn’t meet our standard collectively. Eric and I did an assessment recently, and it was just they had a little bit of that culture, and you could tell it felt good to be in there that people could do that. So, you know, I think starting with that as the basis of, like, everyone has the ability to say that. That’s my two cents on that.
Danny: Yeah, and it should have never gotten that far to the server anyway, right? So, I mean, the server is really doing everybody a huge favor by not allowing that to leave the kitchen.
Eric: Well, I’d like to bring out, we’ve done multiple assessments in the last couple of years, Amanda and I together, and three of them stand out to me in just polarized opposites. So, we did one recently that Amanda just spoke to, where the servers could walk in and say, “Hey, I’m not going to bring that to the table,” and it would be fixed immediately, and no problems, no questions asked. We did one earlier last year, and it was, the servers could not even walk into the kitchen. So, the servers stayed in the dining room, run things up, the expo gave it to a food runner, and it went out. One food runner, one expo, 27 tables. How quickly do you think food got out? Not very, right?
So, the servers couldn’t go in, they couldn’t talk to anybody, they had to make everything right on a computer. So, that’s a really bad example as well versus the good one. And then we were at one that was in the middle where servers could go in, they could voice their opinion, and then some days, “Hey, we’ll remake that for you,” and other days, it was, “Get the hell out of here. You don’t know what you’re talking about. This is perfect, and you’re a dummy.”
Danny: Hard to keep good servers in that environment, right?
Eric: Yeah. They better be making a lot of money in a dining room if the cooks are going to talk to them like that.
Danny: So Amanda, give me an example, if there—we’ve done a lot of work with a lot of clients. We’ve made a lot of recommendations, and we’ve redesigned service models. So, what do you think? What have we done to help people redesigning service? There’s a lot of different ways to do service in restaurants, so what have we done? Or what do you suggest for redesigning? Or at least, how would you go about looking at it?
Amanda: No, it’s really understanding what the ultimate goal from this client is, what their vision for their restaurant is. So, you know, if we’re talking about a restaurant that’s struggling with labor, we try to find the white space there, and what’s happening? Are they overstaffed? Are they not staffed with the right people? In some cases, it’s let’s—in, I’d say, in most cases—we want to keep the server in the dining room. We want to give them as much guest time as possible.
How do we create that? It’s either looking at the number of tables they have to deliver this service model that we have. So, we look at that. Is this possible? And you know, a lot of it is restaurateurs don’t stand and watch what’s happening in the moment with their servants. You’re asking them to do 17 things, but they have nine tables, and explain to me how that’s possible. So, it’s either reducing the amount of things that you’re asking the server to do, or reducing the amount of tables.
So, everybody is a little bit different. Recently, you know, we have a client that we kind of looked at, bringing back the old-school French brigade. It’s really understanding what the client’s need is, what the labor targets are, and then how do we deliver the guest experience that our service model dictates? And thinking of all of those factors and then the X factor, which is the talent level. What’s the talent level in this market? So, we look at it through so many different lenses, and it’s an art and a science, right? It’s an art because we’re looking at the people part of it, and it’s a science because we know how many people it takes to deliver that.
Danny: Eric, anything you’d like to add?
Eric: I think she touched on it briefly, and I’ll expand on it is these restaurant owners and the general managers don’t spend a lot of time in their dining room, bearing service, kind of, experiencing that service as a guest would. So, when we go into a market or we’re doing a restaurant assessment, the first day we go in, we do a secret shop, and we sit down in the dining room and we gage our service. We also watch the tables around us and we watch the service of those folks as well. And I think you can learn so much from that as a leader or an owner to change the guest experience, and you can see those holes, those white spaces that Amanda was talking about because it comes down to hospitality in the front-of-the-house, and you can’t cut your way to prosperity, right? So, everybody wants to look at that labor number, and maybe it’s because that server has nine tables, like Amanda talked about, and they can’t really go through the menu and upsell and really maximize the guest spend, but if they had seven tables and you added another server on and you raise your PPA by $5 a person, now you’re talking about, you know, exponential gains in sales, and that labor number doesn’t matter. I’ve seen it many times, over and over again. And we used to say, you staff for the business you want, right? And people would put three servers on and expect to do $5,000 in sales. It doesn’t work.
Amanda: Or they let the servers dictate how many people they have on because they got used to making so much money in turning and burning and not delivering hospitality. So, we’ve heard some owners and leaders say, “Well, if I add an extra server, everyone’s going to quit because they’re used to making x money,” instead of thinking, if I add an extra server, we can deliver the hospitality that we’re promising our guests, everyone will make more money, and it’s like they’re afraid to do that because they think everyone’s going to quit.
Danny: Yeah, and you know, that’s interesting. That’s sort of a battle, too, of trying to convince servers that less tables is more money because they’re going to give better service, they can upsell, they can reset their tables faster. You know, and even, I think you guys had an example with a client not all that long ago, where the servers, you know, just really made it miserable for a new server because they don’t want a new server to come in because then they were going to get less tables, right? So, it was like, you just got to really understand how to manage those kinds of things.
Eric: I think the big key to that is anytime that we go in and we recommend that somebody adds another server to the floor, we go through and we look at tip percentages, and we look at what they’re making currently, and we kind of draw out a model of, hey, if you’re making 17% now, and we can get you up to 20% in tips, you know, that’s going to cause this amount of money for you over the course of a week, then we break it down over the course of a month, and then we extrapolate it to the entire year. And then servers are like, “Oh, I can make that much more?” Yeah, and you have to work less. You’re not working as hard, and you’re having a better time at work and creating a better guest experience. No brainer. But they just don’t see it. They’re blinded. They can’t see the forest through the trees.
Danny: Yeah, and I think you know you’re right. You know they don’t have to work as hard. They’re not running around like mad [banshees 00:30:08] all over the place, right? So, Eric, let me ask you, how do you balance consistency with hospitality? Because not everybody is a great hospitality giver; they require training. But how do you balance that? Because you want to deliver a great service, but you don’t want to be a robot either.
Eric: You have to create an environment where the servers are enabled to say yes to the guest and they’re able to take care of guest issues without fear of reprisal from the management team. So, if a server comes to you and says, “Hey, table 12 really had an issue. This is what I did to fix it,” and the manager yells at them, they’re probably not going to do that same thing the next time, right? So, they’re the ones that are face-front to the guest. They know what’s going on.
Most of the time, they know exactly what will fix it. Give them the power to do that and really help them. That’s where hospitality comes in, and that gives you that consistency because the server is the consistent one in front of the table. Obviously, if there’s a bigger issue, they can come to the manager and get them involved, but give them the ability to say yes and really take care of the guests. That’s where hospitality comes in. That makes it consistent. It’s just better that way.
Danny: Amanda, anything you’d like to add?
Amanda: Yeah. So, I think when a brand simplifies their service model thinking, like, fewer touch points, but more meaningful ones, you know, for me, it results in, you know, faster table turns, you know, it reduces server stress, like, we talked about that server friction, it increases check averages. So, I think you get consistency by having just more meaningful touch points. Like, we’ve gone into some brands where they have, like, 17 different steps of service, and I’m thinking, like, I was a pretty good front-of-the-house person. Like, I’m not even sure I can do that. And so, it’s just having the goal being to connect more with your guests versus having to do some more task and tactic things or tactical things.
Danny: Yeah, and we’re going to talk about training here in a little bit, but I think servers, knowing the food, knowing the drinks, the more confidence they have because they know, the better service they’re going to give and then they’re going to feel empowered to make it right because they know what’s right, right? So, I think that’s really, really important.
Amanda: And you know, guests want predictability, right? So, they want predictability in their experiences. Like, you go to the same restaurants because you get a predictable experience, but at the core, they also want authenticity in that engagement. So, I think that’s, you know, helping people to deliver that and teaching them what the difference is.
Danny: Yeah, and I think, you know—just, you know me, I love to go off script on occasion—there’s this whole thing about AI and all of this. And the trend in my mind always has been and always will be, people want to talk to a human and a real person. You know, it’s like when you make a phone call and you get AI and you have to hit 20 buttons in order to get to a person, drives you crazy. And so, I think restaurants have the advantage, if done correctly with everything we’re talking about, to really allow people to talk to people and have a real interactive experience, and get off of their phones, get off their computers, and just talk to a live person that cares. I think it is really an advantage that everybody should strive to have.
Eric: It’s a lost art, Danny. You’re absolutely right. There’s so many people that want to go in and you see them. They put their phone down, they put it away. It’s not even visible on the table, and they want to talk to the server and they want to have that interaction.
Like, when my wife and I go out to eat, we typically sit at the bar because, you know, we like to talk to the bartender, and it’s fun for us. But you see less and less of it these days because a lot of people are interacting with their phone. And the server, they can change that around. They have to pick up those nonverbal cues and really try to meet the guests where they are and bring them out of their shell and give them that great hospitality that we’ve been talking about all day.
Danny: Yeah, I’m going on record. That’s the trend for 2026. More social engagement and more communication with a human, you know? Because I think people long for that in this world. And you know, AI can do a lot of things, but you know, it’s just never going to replace a human being that really cares about somebody.
Hey, so let’s switch over. Let’s talk about labor here. Now, I mean, all this is great, but now we still have to make money, right? So Eric, I’m going to ask you, what kind of labor metrics, and how do you look at labor, and how do you look at staffing, and are there some tools that can be used to help that so that you’re giving great service, but you can still be profitable, and you can manage the cost at the same time?
Eric: Yes, one of my favorite metrics to look at for this is sales per labor-hour. So, you can look at how much the guest or the server is selling on the hours that they’re on the clock. And it really helps them to understand what their percentages are and how they get those higher. And really can show it through days where they’ve worked on a busy shift or a slower shift, right? So, you can really see it, and they can see that, hey, sometimes when it’s slower, my sales per labor-hour is higher because I can give that better guest service.
So, that’s what I like to look at in sales per labor-hour directly translates into the labor percentage because it’s basic math, right? That’s what it comes down to. The restaurant industry is basic math, right? Guest spend versus what we spend, and boom, that’s your profit, and that’s how we get to where we want to be. So, looking at sales per labor-hour is one of my favorite ways to do that.
Danny: One thing I just want to make a comment here. We’re talking about sales per labor-hour. Amanda’s dog wants to chime in and say, I need a doggy menu because I’ll spend $4 for a burger and a bowl of water at the restaurant, so don’t forget about me, right?
Amanda: It’s barks per UPS driver driving by the house. That’s what they’re worried about.
Danny: Yeah. But no, I’m glad there was a bark there because I do think thinking about the pets is, you know, it’s crazy how much money people spend on pets and the opportunity to raise your average check, which raises your sales per man-hour, so your dog’s timing couldn’t have been more perfect, Amanda [laugh].
Amanda: We did work for a brewery—it was, like, a chain of breweries—and, you know, I did some visits, and it was unbelievable. Now, I have never seen this anywhere. And you know, I’m an avid dog lover. This restaurant, everybody on the patio had a dog. Everybody. Some had two. And the dog menu prices started at $5 and everybody’s dog had something from the menu.
And you think about that, now, you can’t get more actual butts in seats, but you can get more paws on the ground. And so, to see that, I was—I mean, it was unbelievable. So yes, that’s a way. You know, we always say, is it easier to cut somebody or sell something? So, you are thinking, if you’re a taco bar, is it easier to sell a margarita or cut a server?
Danny: If you can train your dog to paw at what they want on the menu, they get a free dessert.
Amanda: Oh, my goodness.
Danny: So, that it just segues right into the next perfect thing is, how do you improve throughput without rushing the guests? Because I know there are brands and there are servers that will say, “I don’t want to sell a dessert because that’s going to take another 30 minutes at the table.” I want my table back. So, Amanda, how do you balance it because you need throughput, but you don’t want the guests to feel rushed, right?
Amanda: Yeah, so I think you just remove the internal delays. You know, we talked about those friction points and making it easier for servers to get what they need to their table. So, for example, if it takes seven minutes to get a drink from the bar, guess what they’re not doing? They’re not suggesting drinks because they know that it slows the service down. An improved flow. So, making sure that you know the server is not going to sell something that either takes too long or they have to make themselves, right? So, the old thing is, if the server makes desserts, they don’t sell desserts.
So, you can increase throughput by reducing any of those friction points and making it easier for the server to do their job, get what they need to their guest, and get that table turned in a pacing that seems right for the guest. So, I think that’s another thing that we like to focus on because everybody has a different pacing, and you know, some people, that is their day. So, it’s designing throughput that makes sense for the restaurant’s financial bottom line, but also makes sense for the guests that they’re waiting on.
Danny: You know, and I hate to say it—and Eric, I have a question here in a second—but you know that when I go out to dine, I’m with you, I like to sit at the bar because my wife and I go to restaurants, the same ones a lot, we know the bartender, so it’s kind of like that friends kind of thing. But you know, oftentimes, if we’re dining out, I never order my entree with my appetizers because nobody ever paces things correctly. So like, you just get your appetizer, and then five seconds later, your entree and your salad and everything else shows up, so now you have all these plates in front of you with everything getting cold. You can’t enjoy it, you feel rushed and then they don’t take it back because, you know—I don’t—you know, it just drives you crazy, right? But my point had nothing to do with where I was going next, but hey, I thought it was worth saying.
Amanda: I want to go back to something with throughput. So, throughput starts at the door. So, we talked about that great host. Eric alluded to somebody that he brought on. So, you know, throughput starts with accurate quoting, you know, making sure that, you know, we have the people to service the guests that we want to bring in and then creating table turns that make sense for the restaurant and make sense for the guests. So, you know, it really starts that at the door.
Danny: Yeah, and Eric, my question to you was, here again, we’re managing front-of-house and back-of-house, you know, you have to be able to meet ticket times in the kitchen in order to get the throughput, but not in such a way that you’re rushing the guests. How do you manage the back-of-house to try to get—so that all of it works together at the same time, right?
Eric: We haven’t talked a lot about technology in the kitchen and that today. So, when you look through how servers are ringing stuff up, you talked about pacing meals. There’s course buttons, there’s definitely different ways to do it, right? So, especially today, right, these guys have the handhelds. They’re walking around the dining room. You can bring something up and not send it on the handheld, and then as soon as you see your appetizer walk out, just hit send and it goes to the kitchen. There’s so much better ways to handle throughput in that respect nowadays. It just makes it easier.
Remember, before, it used to be a three-part check, right? Appetizer, entree, and then the kitchen controlled everything, and hey, sometimes one of those parts got lost, and guess what? Nobody’s entree went out and guests were unhappy, but utilize the technology side of it, right? And to Amanda’s point, in the dining room, the throughput is so much about communication, right? You have a dining room manager, you have a dining room attendant, whether you call them a server assistant, busser, whatever it is, everybody’s walking around, right?
Hey, desserts just dropped on table 12. Table 13, signing their credit card check, you know, and they’re talking to the host, so the host can start pre-staging those next tables, getting them ready to go down. I worked at a restaurant that when we opened for dinner, we were on a wait within ten minutes of opening, and we closed on a wait, so we had to be one hundred percent ready all the time and where we’re pushing tables left and right. Servers loved working there because they showed up, they worked their entire shift. They didn’t have to worry about getting cut. Nobody’s getting sent home early. It was great, right?
And then imagine closing with 21 servers [laugh]. Everybody closes their own station. There’s no nothing. It was great, fantastic. So, you have to communicate with each other no matter what, whether it’s the manager in the dining room, the host, the busser, the servers, right? Hey, the server knows that they’re going to get an eight top in their section next. Hey, they’re trying to rush that table out. They’re trying to get them out the door so they can get the next table in. It makes a lot of sense to keep everybody involved in the conversation.
Danny: Yeah, absolutely, you know. And I think the other part about the whole throughput, designing your menu, or maybe running specials when you know it’s going to be busy, items that are easy to get out of the kitchen. I always use prime rib as the best example: you slice it, you plate it, you serve it, and you’re done, you know? Or a dish up an item, or something that holds legitimately, you know, over time. But ultimately, the key is great communication and great management and great leadership.
And, you know, and I’m going to throw this back to you guys, but I use the term that, you know, great managers, they don’t run shifts, they’re not busting tables, they’re orchestrating. And that, really, in my mind, is very, very critical and key to a great front-of-house operations. I want you guys to comment on that because both of you guys have run very busy dining rooms over your career. Amanda, I’m going to ask you to go first.
Amanda: Yeah, I think that great managers anticipate what’s happening. They’re not reactionary because they’ve staffed for the business that they’re going to do, the team is well trained, and everybody is in position to deliver the hospitality that the guests expect. And so, when you’re staffed correctly for the business that you expect to do, the manager can truly be—you know, we used to, you know, in a previous life, they used to call it hosting the party. When you think about it, it’s a party in your living room, but it happens to be in the dining room, and so that they’re able to kind of see what’s happening and engage with your team members, engage with your guests. It’s being purposeful without being functional.
It’s helping to make sure, like, you know, they’re standing in the corner and they’re watching, but they’re also engaging. So, managers that you see bussing tables and seating guests and moving menus from one box at the front-of-the-house, they’re very functional, they’re task and tactic-oriented, but they’re not strategy-oriented.
Danny: Very well said. Eric, anything you’d like to add to that?
Eric: I think she touched on all the points. You know, there will be times in a shift where you may have to bus a table, you may have to pick up a dish here and there, but I think nowadays, when we’re looking at restaurants, sight lines are so important. When a manager is in a dining room and they’re talking to tables, and they can see everything that’s going on around them, and—it’s tough, but you’ll get to a point where your servers, that you can have very good nonverbal communication with them. Just shoot them a quick glance, they know exactly what you mean, they get moving in the right direction. It’s very important, and those are the best managers, right, because you have those pre-shift meetings, you have those post-shift meetings, you talk constantly, and you’re coaching constantly, and then it just becomes a look, a glance, non-verbal communication. It’s important, and I think the best managers are great at it.
Danny: Yeah. And two points I’d like to add is, I think when you are, to your point, Amanda, when you’re organized, you’re ready, you’re properly staffed for the right volume at the right times, you have really great opportunities for coaching moments, right? So, you can touch the server, the bartender, and say, “Hey, you did a fantastic job of that table. Thank you very much.” Or, “Hey, we’re running a little behind. I need you to bus a little bit better or pre-bus because we need that table.”
And then the other thing that, you know, I’ve always tried to tell for the house managers is, every 30 minutes, every 40 minutes, just stop and stand somewhere and look, or if the table’s empty and you’re not going to be a distraction, sit down and see what’s going on from the guest level and just watch because just watching really allows you to manage and orchestrate, versus, like you said, you know, you’re running around. And that’s hard for us. Like, a server that’s promoted to a manager, their comfort level is to revert back to being a server, so you have to teach them how to be a leader and how to be the maestro or the host or the hostess.
Amanda: When I would hire somebody to be a front-of-the-house manager, I knew from the moment I was interviewing them the kind of leader they would be, just by asking them what their leadership style is. And when they were very young in their career, they would always say, hands-on. A hands-on leader. I like to show the team I’ll do everything that they’re doing. And I said, “Well, that’s great because people need to know that you have their back, but what they really need is for you to lead the shift.”
They need for you to be the pilot of the plane. You can’t be a passenger in the plane and fly the plane at the same time. So—another airport reference, I don’t know where I’m going with this. I think it’s because Eric’s flying to the UK today—so I think it’s just if you have a leader that’s very comfortable being hands-on, it’s teaching them what it could look like, and showing and role modeling that behavior. I also want to get back to something Eric said. He said that he was talking about the sight lines. When you’re five feet tall, Eric, there are no sight lines. I was like a home improvement guy in every dining room that I’ve ever worked, it was like my—just all you’d see was the top of my head peering over the little walls.
Danny: I wasn’t going to go down the height thing, but you know, I’m glad you brought it up, right? So sorry, Eric. Go ahead.
Eric: I just wanted to talk really quickly about what you said, like, having the opportunity to stand off in the corner or something. Just make sure you’re cognizant of your body language when you’re doing that because sometimes you look like a creeper. Sometimes it’s just not the best. And yeah, and sometimes—not you specifically, but the manager can look like a creeper, I’ll say that. And then there’s a restaurant that I go to pretty often and they have a ledge that when you come out of the kitchen, there’s, like, a little half wall, and I always see one of the managers kind of doing this on a half wall. That’s not good, right? If I get what you’re trying to do, but stand tall, right? Show your team that, you know, you’re engaged, you’re doing the right thing. When you do that, you look lazy and you look like you’re not paying attention.
Danny: And make sure the wall is not more than five feet tall, right, so that [unintelligible 00:48:44]—
Eric: [laugh]. I did say half wall, yeah [laugh].
Danny: But you know a couple things here, and then I have a couple of closing question or request. You have to teach managers to think that if they’re not doing something, they’re not doing anything, right? You know what I’m saying? You know, like, they feel like they have to be doing something in order to be a manager or they’re being lazy, or they’re, you know, and you know, it’s really hard to train people to learn that you know you are doing something, even if you’re not bussing the table or running a plate or doing whatever. And I used to—because I hated working the front-of-the-house because I’m a back-of-the-house guy—but I always use clearing a plate or filling a water glass as an opportunity to get into the table to talk to the guests, to see how their experience was, as opposed to, you know, you go to a chain restaurant or a lot of restaurants, and you see the manager go to every table.
“How was your meal today?” “How was your meal today?” “How are you doing today?” “How was your meal today?” One table after another because they’re either bonus or a part of their system that they have to touch a certain number of tables. They do it because they have to, not because they want to. So, I wanted to close off. Amanda, I know that you say this a lot. I think it’s an interesting, very funny story—or not funny, funny, but you know what I mean. When you’re interviewing a potential server, and this gets back to service, hospitality, selling, one of the first things you do is what?
Amanda: I ask them to sell me the pen that’s in my hand. I’ll ask them to sell me the pad that I’m writing on. They look at me like I’m crazy. And I want to know two things, if they can think on their feet, if they have the ability to sell me something that really, it’s just a pen. I had this one server tell me that it had ink that was imported in from Dubai, it was the best ink that you could ever get, it was guaranteed to last for ten years, and I mean, it was really, really incredible. I think it shows you a lot of things, the comfortability with selling and the ability to think on their feet. And those are two qualities that you really want your servers to have.
Danny: I bet she was on the floor that afternoon, right?
Amanda: Oh, my gosh, like, I swear, you know, we’ve said—this girl could sell ice to Eskimos. I mean, she was one of the best servers that I had ever seen.
Danny: Yeah, that’s a great tip. So, that one of the things we wanted to make sure is, as you’re listening to this, pick one item. I think that would be a great one. It’s really a great way to judge the energy and how a person is going to be a server. So, for Eric, last question for you, before we part for today is, if there’s one thing that you think people should learn from today’s podcast, what would it be?
Eric: I think it’s meet your guests where they are, give them the experience that they deserve and want. Keep it simple for the people in the front-of-the-house. It just makes it easier for them and it allows them to give that great service. You know, Amanda talked about training, and one of the restaurants had 17 steps. Nobody’s doing it. Nobody’s doing it. It’s nonsense. And then when you allow that to happen, then what else isn’t important, right, throughout the restaurant? So, keep it simple. Meet the guests where they are. Keep an eye on your bottom line.
Danny: Yeah. And I think the other big rule is—and, Amanda, you said this early in this podcast, don’t forget the reason why we’re in the restaurant business. We’re not in the restaurant business to fill out checklists and forms and everything else. We’re in the business to take care of guests and if we take care of the guests, the money will automatically flow into the register, right? So, I want to thank you guys. This was a fun, God, almost an hour. Time flies when you’re having fun, but a lot of great information.
I want to thank you guys and everybody remember, info@therestaurantroadmap.com. Give us your feedback, comments, what kind of subject would you like us to talk about. In the next week or two, we’re going to be sending out some information. If you submit a question to us, and we get it on to the podcast, we’re going to give you a free 30-minute consultation with one of our consulting experts. So, send something in. We’d love to hear from you. So again, I want to thank you, Amanda, great seeing you and having you on the show again today. And Eric, always a pleasure. Have fun in the UK. I know that you’re going there later today, so have fun, stay warm, okay. And come back with the accent. I love the British accent. All right?
Eric: [laugh]. We’ll do, we’ll do.
Danny: Take care, you guys.
Amanda: I thank you.
Danny: Thanks for tuning in. We hope today’s episode gave you valuable insights you can put into action. If you have questions, want more info on today’s topic, or need support with your restaurant-specific challenges, we’d love to hear from you. Reach out anytime at info@therestaurantroadmap.com, and visit synergyrestaurantconsultants.com to explore our services, sign up for our newsletter, and catch up on past episodes. Don’t forget to follow and subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, LinkedIn, Instagram, TikTok, and Facebook so you never miss what’s next. Do you have feedback or a topic you’d like us to cover? Contact us. We’re here to help make the world a better place to eat.