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The iGaming Leader is hosted by Leo Judkins, founder of The iGaming Leader Mastermind.
Every other week, Leo sits down with Founders, C-suite executives, and VPs from across the iGaming industry for conversations you won't hear on a conference panel. The real decisions. The hard calls. What leadership actually looks like from the inside.
No keynote polish. No PR answers. Just honest conversations between people who know the industry.
New episodes every other Wednesday.
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:18:16
Yoni Sidi
My aim and vision was actually generating traffic. I was brand. I'd be playing golf. No pressure, no stress. We make plans and God laughs. The morning focussed on the European Middle East. And then come six in the evening until 1:00 in the morning. Your Mexico focus right here and look like shit. Working 1415 hour days.
00:00:18:18 - 00:00:23:02
Leo Judkins
Learning to switch off has been harder than any commercial decision you've made. Why is.
00:00:23:02 - 00:00:39:19
Yoni Sidi
That work at this time? It's difficult. The bad times will feel like you have five elephants on your shoulders. The good times, but not feel as good as you expect to be. It can be a really lonely place at the top and you're making your own decisions. Go wasted. A lot of my own time and energy kind of deteriorated my own mental health to ashamed to ask for help or for advice.
00:00:39:20 - 00:00:46:16
Leo Judkins
If you'd go back to 2022 when you first founded whimpered, what's something that you would have liked to have known back then?
00:00:46:17 - 00:00:54:02
Yoni Sidi
There were periods I felt I had bitten off more than I could chew. I would go back 2022 and said.
00:00:54:03 - 00:01:18:21
Leo Judkins
Welcome to the iGaming leader podcast. I'm your host, Leo Jerkins, founder of iGaming leader mastermind. And on this show, I sit down with some of the most inspirational and forward thinking leaders in our industry diving into the real challenges, high stakes decisions, lessons that shape our industry. If you're a VP, director, or an executive and iGaming, this podcast is built for you.
00:01:18:23 - 00:01:44:21
Leo Judkins
Before we dive in, a quick thank you to our sponsor sums up the full cycle verification platform trusted by top iGaming operators worldwide. Some sub helps operators onboard players quickly stay compliant and prevent fraud, all without slowing growth. More information in the description. Let's dive in. Hey guys, welcome to the iGaming Leader podcast. I'm here with Yoni City today, CEO of Winstedt Group.
00:01:44:21 - 00:02:07:17
Leo Judkins
And when he built his own operator on his own proprietary platform, signed up over 4.5 million registered users and turn it into one of the leading casino and sportsbook brands in Mexico, all since 2022. Before that, it was part of Hill's At the Hills and Playtex of a joint venture. European operated discipline on one side, platform technology on the other.
00:02:07:17 - 00:02:23:04
Leo Judkins
And now he runs both B2B iGaming tech business and fast growing operator. And he's steering expansion across Latam. Today, we're going to talk about your journey all the way to where you are today. I'm super excited to talk to you. Welcome to the podcast.
00:02:23:05 - 00:02:29:07
Yoni Sidi
Very much. It's a pleasure to be here and I'm very excited. That was a great intro, by the way. Really good. Thank you.
00:02:29:09 - 00:02:48:04
Leo Judkins
Hey, I wanted to start with football, actually. I know it's a bit of a weird start, but Ronny Rosenthal was. Was Uncle Ronnie to you? Right. And you grew up around and field and the Spurs changing room. What did that, you know, teach you about performance before you even ran a business? Because that's that's a level football that you're around.
00:02:48:05 - 00:03:06:18
Yoni Sidi
It was an amazing part of my childhood. And I think you can actually appreciated more now when you're a father and you take your kids to football games. Ronnie, for those that don't know, is probably Israel's greatest ever footballer. He had a very, very distinguished career, won the Division one championship before it became the Premier League when he was at Liverpool.
00:03:06:19 - 00:03:27:07
Yoni Sidi
Then he moved to Tottenham, so he played for top club Standard Liege and when he first moved to England, he came from Belgium to Liverpool. And my father, just because of the business that he was involved in, kind of helped people who came from Israel to to England. But he was an important exporter and that's how we kind of got introduced to him.
00:03:27:08 - 00:03:54:13
Yoni Sidi
And whenever Liverpool would come down and play in and around London, they would always say in the same hotel. So my dad and who always take me would go and visit them the night before and when he was at Liverpool, basically in the bedroom with, you know, me, my dad, Ronnie and John Barnes. On Sunday, I remember once they did a show, the click of, I think, a game against QPR where Ronnie Rosenthal took Darren Peacock, who was a big centre back from QPR on his back, beat him a few times and then scored.
00:03:54:13 - 00:04:16:03
Yoni Sidi
And I'm sitting there and John Barnes goes to run. He goes, oh, that was good. Running. Running goes yeah, yeah, thanks. Like, you know John writes that the icon and then when he moved to Tottenham at Tottenham fan, it was just amazing because I would go with him to Chase Lodge, which is in Mill Hill, north London, when they used to train and I'd be sitting there watching the training actually behind the ropes sometimes actually be involved in training.
00:04:16:03 - 00:04:41:05
Yoni Sidi
I remember days when the likes of Ian Walker would be, you know, oh, kid going gold and there's no looting. And as I got closer to Ronnie, and also saw the people that he was close to. So Jurgen Klinsmann was a really big friend of his. Dumitrescu, PepsiCo. A lot of the foreign players, you see the level of professionalism that they have, not just when on the pitch, but when they're not on the pitch.
00:04:41:07 - 00:04:59:03
Yoni Sidi
And this could be down to dietary stuff where they go, you know, how they enjoy themselves, how they relax, how they recover. During the training sessions, you see the level of dedication that needs to go into it. You know, and I remember Ron, even when he had injuries, he'd still. No, no, no, I've got to go. I've got to play.
00:04:59:03 - 00:05:16:00
Yoni Sidi
And he would still turn up and I'd watch him at games. And I know that he's injured and still give 100%. I think it kind of even then, I may not have realised it. That helped me understand or realise the sacrifice and the dedication. You need to be the best at what you do and on who makes it to that level and even a few levels below.
00:05:16:02 - 00:05:41:17
Yoni Sidi
In professional sports, you have to have something inside you that can drive you. Would that be mental strength? All these types of things? So yes, I was young and I was in awe of seeing all these celebrities and, you know, going to school and telling my class, you know, what I did yesterday? But when I actually looked back at my time there, it was as much the excitement as as well as the educational side of, wow, these guys to be the best.
00:05:41:18 - 00:05:58:22
Yoni Sidi
What they do, they have to make sacrifices and you know, they can't go out in the evenings, they can't eat what they want. They must go to training. They must perform the best they can every day. And I would say that's probably what I took out of it. But it was it was phenomenal to be a child and and have those.
00:05:59:00 - 00:05:59:12
Yoni Sidi
It's great.
00:05:59:13 - 00:06:25:04
Leo Judkins
I bet it's it's also I always think about the environment that we find ourselves in. Right? Like that, that old expression about the average of the five people you surround yourself most with. It's it's a bit like that, right? It's almost normalises that high standard of high performance. And you know, where other people might see it as something that requires too much discipline for them or it's too far away or, you know, and of course, it requires much discipline and of course, it's far away.
00:06:25:04 - 00:06:29:03
Leo Judkins
But for you, it's it's normal. It brings it close. Right? Isn't that true for you?
00:06:29:04 - 00:06:54:22
Yoni Sidi
Yeah. I think excellence around you helped push you further. A grade of this. I did three years military service in Israel, and there is I was a combat instructor. And to finish the it's a three month course. And the last part of the course is a very, very tough physical exercise that involves hiking in sea water up to your chest, carrying a log, shooting, running a.
00:06:54:22 - 00:07:15:08
Yoni Sidi
So it's a good couple of hours. And I'm not the biggest I'm not the most physical, but seeing all of my soldiers around me, you know, we get they wake you up at 4:00 in the morning with loud music, shock you out of bed. Go pick up this huge log. You have two platoons either side. You're carrying this log for kilometres and very easily you can say, fuck this.
00:07:15:11 - 00:07:32:18
Yoni Sidi
What do I need to be doing this for? I can just give up. But that is what taught me that if someone else around me can do something, there's no reason why I can't do it. It may be hard or may it may take me more time to get on to something. But if someone can do something, then there's no reason why that can't inspire me to at least try my best to do what he can do.
00:07:32:21 - 00:07:50:11
Yoni Sidi
Yeah, it's very similar to to the environment that I have here at wisdom, and we have some great candidates, some great, great staff and colleagues. And I don't sound cliche and say they inspire me every day, but there are things that they do. But on a day to day basis, it does make you think, okay, that's good. I know that that can be that.
00:07:50:11 - 00:07:57:01
Yoni Sidi
So I think having strong people around you would hopefully should only kind of help you raise your levels and raise your standards.
00:07:57:02 - 00:08:14:12
Leo Judkins
Yeah, I love it. Yeah. It's true. Yeah. We build our we create our own ceiling. Right. And that that helps you break through it. So yeah, it makes total sense. You built a win pots with no outside funding. Share all the backs. Right. Brick by brick. What's what did say no to outside money cost you. And what what did they give you?
00:08:14:13 - 00:08:18:00
Leo Judkins
What why why that decision and what? How did they help? Or how did they slow you down?
00:08:18:00 - 00:08:37:22
Yoni Sidi
You never know what might have happened. And you know, if all I know, taking outside, outside funding could have catapulted us or made our, success quicker, it could also have crippled us. The reason that we didn't really want to and we didn't really need to is I think I just come out of 17 years of being an environment where it was a corporate environment.
00:08:37:22 - 00:08:55:07
Yoni Sidi
You're very, very restricted to what you can and can't do. And to do that at the intensity that I had done it for, for the 17 years, to be honest, actually wanted to break my idea and concept to, to start with tech was to actually step away from the intensity, high pressure environment. I said, I want my own platform.
00:08:55:08 - 00:09:13:22
Yoni Sidi
I have a vision in my mind what a good platform will look like. Having been in industry and seeing many different pros and cons to other platforms that are out there, and my aim and vision was to literally stop generating traffic. Have a.com brand, not be home. I'd be playing golf. No pressure, no stress. And that's what I think initiated the you know, we don't need external funding.
00:09:13:23 - 00:09:29:01
Yoni Sidi
We want to just chill out a bit. That was the the aim. We make plans and and God laughs. And it kind of snowballed into okay, well we've turned down the money now we can't really go back and ask for money, but we'd be okay. And we're going to have to do this by ourselves. Now that gave us a lot of freedom.
00:09:29:01 - 00:09:51:13
Yoni Sidi
Freedom to make our own decisions. Also, freedom to make our own mistakes. And hope held a hold ourselves accountable for the mistakes that we make. But then when you've also been in environment that is, you know, a corporate environment with not unlimited cash flow, but much more resources than you have on day one. You have that kind of safety net, you have the security, you have the experience of others to help in a situation.
00:09:51:13 - 00:10:05:13
Yoni Sidi
So when I was, you know, part of the tech group, you kind of never had to worry because you always had the best of the best. If it's a CRM guy or a developer or finance guy, marketing guy, you've had them or you could easily go and get them because it's an, you know, I'm part of play tech, come work for me.
00:10:05:14 - 00:10:37:10
Yoni Sidi
Yeah. And we're some of those people always, you know, who's wisdom. So it definitely affected our growth at the beginning. But here's what I actually find quite interesting. So because we didn't have the resources or I was actually against, you know, going out and getting the best of the best and having high salaries, not because, you know, I think I, I know me and my partners know better than them, but the environment that we were trying to create, which was a Start-Up environment, I was actually quite, quite attractive to the idea to actually bring in younger, unexperienced people and grow them and see how they grow, because that's how I started industry.
00:10:37:10 - 00:10:57:08
Yoni Sidi
I was given a chance, really, it was a chance. I just left the Army. It was the first job I ever had and didn't really want to take, but they gave me that chance and it kind of helped me develop into who I am today. And we have members of staff that are with us looking across across the room, but we have 7 or 8 with us, with us from day one that they wouldn't be out of place in, in any company in iGaming.
00:10:57:12 - 00:11:13:05
Yoni Sidi
They came to us with little or no experience. And I think us not being answerable to, you know, the money or outside investment, let us kind of build what we wanted to. And I think the environment that we have built here is, is really, really good. I think it's a huge part of our success is that, you know, we've done it all ourselves.
00:11:13:05 - 00:11:37:02
Yoni Sidi
We've literally rolled up our sleeves and not being lazy, not, you know, if I need the right content. For years ago, I was writing content, even if it was in Spanish, if I had to do a design or something like we did everything as partners of the business, and I don't think that's a bad thing. I think that's helped us fall in love and stay emotionally attached to the business that we have because we've really, really built it ourselves, have a great connection with this staff that we have.
00:11:37:02 - 00:11:54:05
Yoni Sidi
It really is a very, very close knit company that we have here. Like I said, very few people have left us and we we don't pay the most. We're not the most attractive person on the island, that's for sure. The benefit of us being so involved with the staff and helping them learn and grow, and letting them also make their own mistakes like we have them.
00:11:54:06 - 00:12:04:19
Yoni Sidi
I don't think we would have been able to build a company like that if we were dependent on external funding, so it may have been easier to take it, but I don't regret the decision that us doing it ourselves.
00:12:04:20 - 00:12:21:11
Leo Judkins
Yeah, it makes sense. I was talking to Eva Gross a few two months ago or something. I had him on the podcast and he said he we were talking about the same thing, and he said, the thing is, if I would have taken money, I would have traded my crown for a fuel tank. You know, I thought it was such a great expression because it's true, isn't it?
00:12:21:11 - 00:12:38:05
Leo Judkins
And that fuel tank also you sometimes. Then you become only as good as your last quarter. I think one of the benefits that you have is that you can make slower, but more long term decisions. Right? You can you can build for the future. How close do you feel you still to that original vision that you had of kind of slowing down and reducing that pace?
00:12:38:05 - 00:12:40:11
Leo Judkins
And, you know, where are you now with that.
00:12:40:11 - 00:12:55:00
Yoni Sidi
Very, very interesting question? Because I think you can make your own decision that I'm I've made millions and I can retire tomorrow and don't need to work, but I could always, like you, can always slow down your own life. It's decisions that you make. Yeah. Part of that. You know, it might be selfish reasons. I love my job.
00:12:55:01 - 00:13:16:14
Yoni Sidi
I love the company, I love, I love what we built. I'm definitely overly emotionally attached with what we have. It's a decision that I make. I could say no. 7:00 at night, I got night, I can stop, I don't need to still be beating the drum. Yes, it's slightly more complicated when you're dealing with different time zones and different companies, and it's something that I often think about myself, you know, and my wife, obviously we see them okay.
00:13:16:14 - 00:13:36:07
Yoni Sidi
When, when, when. And for me, it's as long as I love what I'm doing and I'm really in it, as in every day, I'm happy to come here and happy to see what it brings and the team that we have and the partners that I have and people that I'm spending most of my time with. It doesn't make me want to slow down my business perspective from a personal perspective.
00:13:36:08 - 00:13:54:10
Yoni Sidi
Yes, I definitely get it. You know, I'm 44. Oh, but it's definitely not. Not young. Have a family. I try and be as a as possible. It's extremely difficult with the travelling and with the hours. But I have a vision. I'm someone who, if I put my mind to something, it's very difficult for me to stop off way.
00:13:54:11 - 00:14:18:23
Yoni Sidi
And yes, that vision might be slightly expanding due to the results and due to us seeing, you know, okay, we can actually do a little bit more. But I also said when we started Wind Pot that something I was never able to do because I was always involved in a big corporation is create some kind of legacy. And there are brands out there and you've had a lot of wonderful speakers on your podcast that actually take some inspiration from some I've known for years, some I've been or done business with.
00:14:18:23 - 00:14:32:22
Yoni Sidi
I want to leave something and for me and it is mine. And until what I feel that, you know, I can put the flag down and say, yes, guys, you're going to look around the room and say, we've done it, which we're no, no, we're not near. We simply finish the World Cup and see what happens now, the World Cup.
00:14:32:22 - 00:15:05:17
Yoni Sidi
And then you have the NFL and the be in January. We're doing a relaunch and then you're doing a new TV advert. And then so it's it's never ending with going now into Peru. So another market. So as long as I'm enjoying it I, I'm not even thinking about, you know, moving away or, or slowing down. I think if my wife and family would say to me, and we need you and you've got to spend more time, then yes, I obviously put my family for everything, but I'm kind of doing this for them and for me as well, you know, saying, you know, this is my legacy and hopefully leave something for, for my kids
00:15:05:17 - 00:15:14:20
Yoni Sidi
to be proud of. And for now, we still have the energy. I still feel like I was 24, starting in a call centre in back in the day. And yeah, I just love it.
00:15:14:21 - 00:15:32:00
Leo Judkins
The thing is, it's your brainchild, right? So it's like your kid. It's and and you're passionate about it and it's for most, most founders it's a hobby as well. Right. It's not just way it's a hobby. It's something that you despite the challenges that you go through and the the problems that need sorting and the headaches that you might have.
00:15:32:01 - 00:15:50:05
Leo Judkins
But one of the things that you said that I found really interesting is that, learning to switch off, which is a continuous, never ending problem to solve, I suppose has been harder than any commercial decision you've you've made. Why is that? You feel and is that true for all families that you like, other people that you run into in similar businesses?
00:15:50:06 - 00:15:50:16
Leo Judkins
Yes.
00:15:50:17 - 00:16:17:11
Yoni Sidi
If you want to be the best at something, you want to excel at something. It requires dedication and sacrifice in all aspects of of life, whether it be sport, business, education, parenting. It involves a lot of factor prices. And I think when you are emotionally attached to something, but it is something that you just you just mentioned, we stick and win put on my children brought them into this world, and I've nurtured them every day, and I've given them food and water and tried to guide them as best I can.
00:16:17:12 - 00:16:35:14
Yoni Sidi
It does become very difficult to switch off, especially in such a dynamic industry like ours, where something is happening all the time. Just refreshing your numbers to see see what's happening. Or you know, during the World Cup, every game you're you're sweating because you're the other side of the book and your problems and regulation. There's always something going on.
00:16:35:14 - 00:16:49:22
Yoni Sidi
And again, it does come back to what I said earlier, that there are certain things that you've probably delegate away and don't have to be so involved in, but I think when you are as emotionally attached, this is what I've learned, what I'm finding anyway. But you know, I would get a whisk tech or win pot tattoo on my my heart and chest.
00:16:50:00 - 00:17:09:12
Yoni Sidi
You don't want to switch off and not out of fear of being able to delegate responsibility. But I do want to know I'm genuinely intrigued and interested. But every facet of the business that we have, and a lot of the time I don't have an input to give on CRM flow, on, structure or for reconciliation, all these types of things.
00:17:09:13 - 00:17:26:16
Yoni Sidi
But I do like to, to be involved. I like to understand I'm also still learning. Been doing this now for for five years. I've still got a long way to go. And I've I've worked with some of the best. I've been very, very, very fortunate to be around some really successful, smart, hungry, driven people. I know how far I have to go.
00:17:26:18 - 00:17:47:16
Yoni Sidi
I'm just at the beginning of this journey in terms of my professional level, being a CEO. Enjoy it. I love it. It makes it all of those kinds of things together do make it extremely difficult to switch off. And it's only only weighing yourself up against your love for your family and your kids. And I think, well, I'm trying to do now much, much more is what I am with them is to really put the phone to one side or the laptop to one side and said, okay, right.
00:17:47:17 - 00:18:05:20
Yoni Sidi
You know, that's play a board game that's in Judaism. On Friday and Saturday you have a day called Shabbat, where if you're an observant drew, which I'm not totally, but you, you kind of you stop no electricity, no nothing. And so my Friday and Saturday is when I'm with my my family in Israel, that's when I try and shut up the most like my phone will be on.
00:18:05:20 - 00:18:25:21
Yoni Sidi
Yes. Because, you know, like a doctor on call sometimes and it always seems to be a Friday night when, but it's not with me. It's, you know, I'm with there and that is my, my shut off time. And that's when I try and give them as much attention as possible. Equally so I have four, but, you know, 20 minutes playing football, 20, 20 minutes dressing up as a ballerina and play fighting.
00:18:25:23 - 00:18:41:05
Yoni Sidi
You do the best that you can. Is it the right thing? I don't know, I really often ask myself, you know, for what? What are we doing this all for? You know, you won't get this time back. So it's difficult. It's really, really difficult. But that I'm, you know, really wrestling with inside of how best to manage.
00:18:41:06 - 00:18:58:01
Leo Judkins
Right. I think I often believe a lot of it is, you know, when you're, when you're at work, be at be 100% at work. And when you're at home, be at home 100%. And that's very difficult. Nobody I don't think anybody can do that. But don't you think that that's what it comes down to, to being more in the moment with whatever it is that you do and just just fully do that?
00:18:58:01 - 00:19:01:04
Yoni Sidi
Yes. But I just don't think it's it's not an easy thing.
00:19:01:05 - 00:19:02:11
Leo Judkins
No it's not. No.
00:19:02:12 - 00:19:19:07
Yoni Sidi
Because of the, the world that we live in, because of the phone and because, you know, you're always available, always on call for an extent. But I agree with you. But it is a trade off. And when I was growing up, my dad was was never around. You know, he was he was working I think the the older generations it was much more natural.
00:19:19:08 - 00:19:34:20
Yoni Sidi
I feel like today us and I believe with a similar age there is a bit more of an expectancy to be more involved. Not that I think it's a bad thing that can be wrong. I love it and I if I could, I would be with them and my family all as much as I could, for they might be crazy or I drive them crazy.
00:19:34:20 - 00:19:51:07
Yoni Sidi
But I think today a lot is expected of the modern day father, if you want to want to put it that way. And it's very, very difficult to be 100%, you know, even when I'm in the office and my family applauding me or something, you know, I would always answer them, even if I'm in a meeting with it doesn't matter who would be like, everything okay.
00:19:51:10 - 00:20:05:18
Yoni Sidi
And when I'm, when I'm at home. So to give 100% of something at that moment, I find extremely difficult to do. I don't even know if it if it's possible. It's something that I want to try and do better, but I also like to be focussed. Like I said, I have that notepad and I like, ride things down.
00:20:05:18 - 00:20:22:06
Yoni Sidi
So I do like to be focussed and finish something. I just think today, with today's environment and especially the business that I've created, it's extremely, extremely difficult and you just make you do the best that you can, but still go back to that kind of and are we doing it for the right reasons? Are we doing it because I'm.
00:20:22:06 - 00:20:37:20
Yoni Sidi
I doing it for myself? Am I doing it for my family? Am I being selfish? Am I trying to provide for them? You're always kind of weighing it up and and I don't know if there is a right or wrong answer. I'm sure people have have handled it better than than myself. But like I said, I'm also still learning, still relatively young.
00:20:37:23 - 00:20:53:04
Yoni Sidi
My kids are growing up and hopefully I will be a bit more be able to be a bit more present for them. But they try on down the line. But for now, my vision and what I believe is the best path for myself and for my family is to grow my business and succeeded my business. Give it everything.
00:20:53:04 - 00:21:10:04
Yoni Sidi
Confessional as they know, we spoke about the part. This is what they need to do. They need to give up everything just to kind of put their mind, body and soul towards being the best that they can be. And we're the same. Yes. No, we don't need to score 15 goals in the Premier League, but I our goals are similar, kind of convert to our world and we have to give everything.
00:21:10:05 - 00:21:31:01
Leo Judkins
Yeah. And look there is no right or wrong and there is no better or worse. Right there is just your truth and the thing that you do and, look, that's different for everybody. And it's not something to be judgemental about. It's just that's the way it is. And that's what your reality is like. One of the big things that is that I is really challenging for you is that you run like you run to be Cyprus, Mexico.
00:21:31:02 - 00:21:53:21
Leo Judkins
Right? I mean, there are two different verticals, two different, two different. Yeah, there are two different, very different locations that split in time. Attention travel. That must be challenging as well. How like how do you manage that? How do you where do you get that? How do you have that balance? Where does it go wrong sometimes. How do you make sure that you spend sufficient energy and time in one area and you know too little somewhere else?
00:21:53:21 - 00:21:54:19
Leo Judkins
How does that work for you?
00:21:54:20 - 00:22:17:17
Yoni Sidi
Normally when it goes wrong is arranging meetings and not taking inspiration. The time zones, everything that always happens to me, it it kind of snowballed. Often tell people we kind of stumbled upwards to to get to where we are. I always had the vision of what a good platform would look like for me and I. I really believe that the platform I've got, a really talented CTOs, is a partner in the business and one of my best friends.
00:22:17:22 - 00:22:35:18
Yoni Sidi
We spend hours and hours and hours together. We've built a really, really good platform. If we go back to the original concept that we just wanted to have a platform run on traffic, happy days, because the platform kind of evolved itself into what it is today. We did see a gap in the market, but it wasn't because we were actively looking to be a busy business.
00:22:35:19 - 00:22:52:11
Yoni Sidi
It's because I'm blessed to have 25 years worth of experience in I gaming, and I have a lot of connections. You know, people would generally come to me and say, do you know any good platforms? Well, you know, you can look at all one time what you're thinking. Yeah, it's quite good. We'd take it okay, no problem. And then another one and another one and all this at the same time.
00:22:52:11 - 00:23:10:05
Yoni Sidi
What we're borrowing Mexico now tech wise, we were we build a really, really good, piece of tech that was very easily able. We can very easily handed out as a B2B business as just a platform and content. So it didn't really involve too much until it became too big. And then we kind of said, okay, I need to step away from this.
00:23:10:05 - 00:23:28:08
Yoni Sidi
So yes, I'm the CEO of the company, but I can't be involved in the day to day business today. There's in 14 or 15 crimes using our platform. I'm very, very, very rarely involved. It's only really when there's a problem or they want me to close a deal or to advise them on certain elements and mainly to help.
00:23:28:10 - 00:23:57:04
Yoni Sidi
But at the beginning it wasn't that difficult because of the time difference. The mornings were easy to be spend, focussed on European and Middle East and facing business and then come six in the evening until 12, one in the morning. You're Mexico focussed, but obviously when you're finishing every day at one 2:00, now you can understand why I'm bit of an absent father, but also why the grey hairs and look like shit?
00:23:57:07 - 00:24:19:13
Yoni Sidi
Because sleep is, is is difficult because they said you're pretty much working, you know, 14, 15 hour days. Now, again, it's not intense labour. And I'm not, you know, carrying bricks. There's people that really work really, really hard. But to stay organised, to stay focussed. You know, to maintain kind of your own identity and make the right decisions.
00:24:19:15 - 00:24:40:05
Yoni Sidi
It's important to manage yourself and especially with diary very, very carefully. So at the beginning it was it was really, really tough because you're building the business. There was much more going on. There was much more problems. There's much more to be involved in where as I think this is the first summer after the World Cup that I felt that, you know, my evenings are getting easier.
00:24:40:06 - 00:24:55:15
Yoni Sidi
I feel like it's been three and a half years of of wimp to get to where we are today, which is phenomenal, like really, really phenomenal. But this is the first summer because every summer me and my family, we go away. We have a house in London, we go away for two weeks, and the last four years that we've done it, I literally haven't been with them all summer.
00:24:55:16 - 00:25:14:10
Yoni Sidi
It's been accepted. It's fine. In the evenings we have a dinner, but during the day they're going out and I'm just working. And this was the first time where my wife said to me, you're not working. Today was like, no, no, it's okay. It's by no things under control. So I think the beginning was much harder. And again, that could be because my own management of myself wasn't right.
00:25:14:11 - 00:25:33:21
Yoni Sidi
Maybe I could have delegated more. But like I said before, I got so emotionally invested into into this business that I'm happy to make those sacrifices and finish my days or nights so late. Where now I kind of sit back and think, you know, I'm actually quite proud that this summer showed me that the businesses in a much better place than it was before, that I don't need to be involved.
00:25:33:22 - 00:25:56:13
Yoni Sidi
I don't need to give myself. I can now focus on other things, like launching in Peru and not have to worry about a business that's running itself relatively well. And I think that's also important aspect. Once you're and you're involved in something very difficult to start planning for two far ahead in the future. But now I feel like when Port in Mexico has done well on the B2B businesses generating good revenues, it's kind of like, what next?
00:25:56:14 - 00:26:04:23
Yoni Sidi
And then that brings back to what is that we were speaking about. Why do I need something else? Surely now if they don't, maybe now's the time. Time to relax. And I'm like, well, there's just one more.
00:26:05:04 - 00:26:23:01
Leo Judkins
Yeah, but look, it's like addiction, isn't it? I think it's very normal. I mean, one of the one of the big challenges. I feel you have a level of speed and urgency that nobody else in the business has. Right. And you mentioned it when we've talked before. We mentioned it in, in writing as well. To me, where you said the hard part of leadership isn't strategy, it's people.
00:26:23:02 - 00:26:41:11
Leo Judkins
Right? Like balancing speed with empathy, getting that urgency in because like you said, ultimately you want to know about everything, right? The reconciliation you mentioned the CRM campaign and you have an opinion about everything. And so maybe that getting better, right, the business being in a better place, maybe it's also you being in a better place and the team being in a better place.
00:26:41:11 - 00:26:48:00
Leo Judkins
How do you balance that, that kind of that empathy with the need for urgency and and quality?
00:26:48:02 - 00:27:12:05
Yoni Sidi
I had a mentor when I was working kind of under the umbrella, a guy called the Owl, and he, Stanley passed away six years ago. But he was such a big influence in my life. He was the the CEO of one of my past companies. And because my English was good, I was actually working very close with him, especially with William Hill and Playtex joint venture that that we were part of.
00:27:12:05 - 00:27:33:08
Yoni Sidi
And, you know, he turned into a father figure to me. I spent years literally sitting, you know, right next to him, navigating some extremely choppy waters, but but always with a smile, smile on his face, a great, a great man you will not meet. He was kind, compassionate, smart, empathetic, funny, spiritual. It kind of. It takes every box.
00:27:33:08 - 00:28:04:09
Yoni Sidi
It was amazing. That's one of the big reasons that I wanted to do whimpered is kind of because of of his influence. And in the environments that we work in and in the cultures that we work in. So especially, you know, dealing with different cultures, Israelis, for example, and Mexicans and, and Cypriots, they're extremely different cultures. And I learned through him to be patient, to be a people person first, because without your people, you're nothing with all the goodwill in the world and everyone has a story to tell.
00:28:04:10 - 00:28:19:23
Yoni Sidi
You know, everyone has their own issues, their own problems, their own struggles, their own successes. And if you, as they're kind of being the per se, can't be the one, it's going to be there for them. They can't be scared to come to you and speak to you if something goes wrong. Same with kids. Always tell my kids and if you do something wrong.
00:28:19:23 - 00:28:34:15
Yoni Sidi
The other day my my daughter smashed my iPhone. I get back to the counter. I just sit thinking that wasn't how I left it in my mouth. And she had the, you know, the courage to listen, I did it. I'm very, very sad. I was like, hey, it's all good. It's the same with with stuff, you know, with human beings.
00:28:34:20 - 00:28:54:07
Yoni Sidi
And not everyone is going to be as emotionally attached and passionate about this business as I am, and rightly so. And because everyone is different than what I learned from from me, I just always listened to people, you know? Yeah. Couldn't instruct them, you know, do it in the right way. There's no need to scream. There's no I never heard scream, shout.
00:28:54:07 - 00:29:16:00
Yoni Sidi
And and we had lots of lots of issues, back in the day. And once you can understand who you're working with and who's working with you and how best to talk to them and how best to motivate them, that sometimes can be leaving them alone, that sometimes could be putting your hand around the shoulder, taking them aside and speaking to them, helping them advice, saying, listen, it's all good.
00:29:16:01 - 00:29:32:21
Yoni Sidi
Take the day off. You know, it's like I said, everyone is different. So when it comes to kind of the speed against the authentic side of the business, I would always choose the people over the speed. Yeah, it's very for me to make a decision very, very quickly, but it's not very easy for the people to implement my decision as quickly.
00:29:32:21 - 00:29:51:08
Yoni Sidi
And I understand that and understand that everyone has a limits and and without my staff and my colleagues, then we wouldn't be where we are today. We could, you know, everyone is replaceable, but I think the environment that we've created here, the the events we put on and I see that, you know, my staff are friendly and I've got an open door policy.
00:29:51:10 - 00:30:12:08
Yoni Sidi
And, you know, I know the names of the kids, and I've got a christening that I'm going to on Saturday and Sunday. It's these type of things that remind me of what I had with the owl, because he built something very, very similar. But, you know, we grew up together. It was ten years that we were together, and we saw people from early 20s, girlfriends, weddings, brick, bricks.
00:30:12:09 - 00:30:29:07
Yoni Sidi
You put them in Hebrew, but, births of children and whatever. And I was actually with his brother in, in Mexico, who we still speak to. He works for, for another brand. And we spent four hours just laughing and crying about the stories that we had, about how we've all evolved as kind of kids into adults. And that's what I've created here.
00:30:29:07 - 00:30:48:09
Yoni Sidi
And that is something that gives me great pride. But I know that AR be looking down at me saying, you know, even when I met a christening or a wedding, that for me is a huge accomplishment to be able to manage, you know, 150 people not I think headcount is is a badge of honour. But, you know, we're 150 people as there is, is really, really good.
00:30:48:11 - 00:31:10:08
Yoni Sidi
People are kind and the people work hard, the people work long hours. And they do that because I believe partly because they've seen me leading by a form of example and being able to give them everything they need. If they have a problem, they they come to me straight away. And that for me is is the balance. But I would always choose the people as long as the people are the right people, I would always choose the people over the speed.
00:31:10:09 - 00:31:28:04
Leo Judkins
I find it's a really interesting yoni because 150 people, you also get to this size where kind of the baroque starts coming in, you know, a little bit, maybe not in your in the culture that you're, you've created in the business, but you know, it starts coming in. Right. The meetings for meetings don't yet happen, which you have maybe out of 500 employees size.
00:31:28:04 - 00:31:55:14
Leo Judkins
But that starts happening because it's also we were talking about it earlier because your business, because you founded it, you're also really passionate about it, right? You really care. And so I think as a, as an Israeli, maybe you have this disadvantage, which I can really relate to as a Dutchman, of this directness, where you go, oh, you know, like I'm going to just say, say what I think here, which is not, you know, it's not a terribly appreciated in every culture, but that can I bet that that happens to you, right?
00:31:55:14 - 00:32:15:23
Leo Judkins
When, when, when it's something that, that you really care about and something that really matters. And maybe that lands, lands differently than you intended it. So how do you deal with that? Like from a, from a you're talking about different cultures. And you know, we've all worked with people in different. Of course with different cultures. But how how do you deal with that, with that, you know, changing maybe your leadership style based on that?
00:32:16:00 - 00:32:39:23
Yoni Sidi
I think I was able to take away a lot of positive learnings from the William Hill Playtex joint venture, where you had corporate British people, doubtless brands, you know, 100 plus three year old brand William Hill and and Playtex, where you had suits and you had tracksuits and this type of of mentality. And that JV fell because of a lack of understanding of the difference in cultures.
00:32:40:00 - 00:33:06:21
Yoni Sidi
You know, I'm a British guy, but I was brought up in, in Israel. So I do have the benefit of, of being on to play both sides just to touch on on the question that you asked. There are things that I've felt passionate about, and there's definitely times in the past where I've let my emotions overcome a discussion, and it actually happened a few times at the beginning, but I would find myself getting press or frustrated at something that was happening in the business.
00:33:07:01 - 00:33:23:09
Yoni Sidi
As frustrated as I was, I still wasn't able to tackle the problem with actual solid solutions. Yeah, I think that's something that changed with me. I think after third or fourth time, it happened at the beginning, where I was trying to say why something wasn't good and why it was bothering me, but I didn't actually have the reasons.
00:33:23:09 - 00:33:40:22
Yoni Sidi
Now I'd be like, you know what? Give me a day. Let me just think about it. I take a step back. So yes, the Israeli in me would be like, no, no, no, no, no needs to be like this. That's it. And it, it was, you know, like that at the beginning. And I think I've been able to learn to, like, take a step back.
00:33:40:23 - 00:33:56:02
Yoni Sidi
This is your opinion. I don't think it's right. Let me do some real investigation. Let me go speak to people I know in the industry. Let me speak to other members of the of the team. Let me get all the information and let me come back to you in a in a constructive way. I can tell you why.
00:33:56:02 - 00:34:11:07
Yoni Sidi
I don't think this would be the right thing and then we can discuss it. So I've kind of learned to not decide everything on the spot and try and be a little bit more patient, give it at least 24 hours. But at the beginning it was it was definitely, definitely a problem that, that I had to try and overcome.
00:34:11:08 - 00:34:26:09
Yoni Sidi
So I did get frustrated. Again, I'm not someone who shouts and screens, but I like to be able to put across my argument in a detailed manner as possible, so it's clear for the person I'm speaking to them also to myself. You know, I need to also believe in direction, not just say, oh, this is the way I feel about it.
00:34:26:09 - 00:34:53:08
Yoni Sidi
This is the way it needs to be done. I think that's helped a lot, especially planning for the World Cup. There are lots of instances where we weren't sure what to do, what not to do, and everyone had different opinions in the end of the World Cup. Worked out, worked out well for us, but I still think it's a slight privilege to be able to have the learning of working for 20 years under the Israeli environment because like you said, you know, we're direct, you know, we're not afraid to to say things if, if we feel something.
00:34:53:08 - 00:35:13:19
Yoni Sidi
But also, I believe there's a lot to be said for the for the British and Western European approach, you know, slightly more patient, slightly say toned down. It may sometimes come across as a lack of emotion, but, you know, we know better being being Westerners. And I think it's served me quite well in, in my 25 years in, in iGaming.
00:35:13:21 - 00:35:19:01
Yoni Sidi
And, but being able to kind of know when to be this and, and when to be like that. Yeah.
00:35:19:03 - 00:35:36:00
Leo Judkins
Yeah. Love it. You know what? I found that the hardest bit when I first started working with British people, understanding what they actually meant when something was crap, you know, understanding that they actually meant it was crap by not not exactly saying that. It's like really difficult.
00:35:36:02 - 00:35:38:13
Yoni Sidi
Be a little bit better, I think.
00:35:38:15 - 00:35:50:06
Leo Judkins
Right. My last question, mate, if you'd go back to 2022 when you, when you first founded whimpered, what's something that you would have liked to have known back then that you know now about yourself or about the business?
00:35:50:07 - 00:36:19:11
Yoni Sidi
Everything would be okay. There were periods, especially at the beginning. I felt I'd bitten off. I probably had bitten off more than I could chew. There were times where I felt lost, extremely like not knowing which way to go, what decision to make. There were times where I kept a lot inside and didn't share the problems. And above everything, there were people that I could turn to that eventually I did turn to more by chance than by kind of my own desire.
00:36:19:12 - 00:36:41:18
Yoni Sidi
But I would go back to 2022 and say, listen, everything would be fine. Nothing is life or death. Speak to people. Share your problems. People out there that generally care. You know, we're not trading nuclear secrets. You know, it's it's a really, really good industry. We have some really great, talented people, especially people I've had the pleasure to work with over the past 20 odd years.
00:36:41:20 - 00:37:00:11
Yoni Sidi
And you don't need to be ashamed to say, listen, I'm I'm finding this tough or I'm struggling with this, even if it's something that can be quite simple. I think that affected me a lot. You know, when I was there, especially when I was, I spent a bit of time in Mexico and bottling everything up and think, you need to take on the world by yourself is a mistake because you have enough.
00:37:00:12 - 00:37:16:12
Yoni Sidi
You should hope you have enough people to to speak to. And if you don't reach out, reach out and speak. Because, you know, I get it occasionally. Now people say just starting the business because I grab a coffee. Even if they're selling, I don't know, cause it doesn't make a difference. I'm I'm more than happy to to speak to people.
00:37:16:12 - 00:37:31:16
Yoni Sidi
Actually had a company the other day that I'm doing a product. It wasn't very good. I told them it wasn't very good and actually I sat down. It's been to them. They asked me to be on their board. I said, there's no need. You don't need me on your board. I'm happy to help. Yeah. Just just to say, listen, the bad times will feel bad and they will feel terrible.
00:37:31:16 - 00:37:49:01
Yoni Sidi
The bad times, they will feel like you have five elephants on your shoulders. And the good times will not feel as good as you expect them to to to be. They're not evenly balanced. The bad times you really, really feel and it can be a really lonely place at the the top. I say. But when you're making your own decisions and the highs, you're, you know, you fit yourself.
00:37:49:01 - 00:37:50:18
Yoni Sidi
Oh great. It's done, it's finished.
00:37:50:19 - 00:37:51:10
Leo Judkins
Next thing.
00:37:51:11 - 00:38:14:21
Yoni Sidi
Yeah, exactly. Next thing. And, you know, I feel like I wasted a lot of my own time and energy kind of deteriorated my own mental health by not knowing that back then, and kind of being too ashamed to ask for help or ask for advice. So now, most important advice I give to anyone that's listening is reach out, speak to people you know, never be ashamed and everything really will be okay.
00:38:14:21 - 00:38:16:13
Yoni Sidi
But take care of yourself.
00:38:16:15 - 00:38:32:09
Leo Judkins
Yeah. Love it, love it. And it doesn't have to be in a moment of struggle, right? It can be in a moment of performance, right? It should be. Should be well before then. It doesn't have to happen when things break down or you break down the only great conversation. Thank you for being so open and honest. Really, really loved it.
00:38:32:12 - 00:38:34:02
Leo Judkins
Thanks for for sharing today.
00:38:34:08 - 00:38:36:11
Yoni Sidi
Thank you for having me. I really enjoyed it. Thank you so much.
00:38:36:15 - 00:38:37:12
Leo Judkins
Thank you for listening.
00:38:37:12 - 00:39:02:22
Speaker 3
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Speaker 3
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