Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
'NWA Founders' is a voice for Founders, Owners, and Builders driving growth in Northwest Arkansas, hosted by Cameron Clark and Nick Beyer.
To recommend a guest or ask questions, reach out at nwafounders@gmail.com and follow us on YouTube and LinkedIn for video content.
Cameron: [00:00:00] All right, Alicia, good morning. Um, um- Good morning ... Alicia Watkins with Paradox. Um, what you built here, um, in the retail marketing space in Northwest Arkansas, um, is absolutely amazing. Really excited to dive in more and kinda get the story. Um, appreciate you coming on with Nick and I here at Northwest Arkansas Founders.
Um, and just to... I wanna get the story, but to kick us off here, you know, one of the things that, um, as I was, like, I think listening to another podcast you were on before or reading something, um, one of the things I heard you say was, you know, real marketing triggers a change, uh, a change in behavior. Um, and I was curious because it seemed like, you know, emerging brands and the challenger brands is what you call them, the two you had...
you know, you really spur on or try to have as your ideal client. Um, I was curious more on the emerging brand side. Um, how do you see that trigger, like real marketing trigger a change for an [00:01:00] emerging brand?
Allisha: Oh gosh, that's a, that's a tough question for them, right? Because they're just babies, right? And they're just trying to lay a foundation for getting visibility.
Um, they just are, are just trying to, um, you know, create something, um, that's differentiated to, um, fill a gap or a void in the market that maybe doesn't exist or to stand out in some sort of way. And so, um, that change for them is, um, to do something different. And usually for us it's a client that wants to, um, be bold- Um, to go against the, um, the norm, right?
And they wanna show up differently. Um, they want to, um, create something that, um, that's just different than, than what anyone else has, has seen out there, um, for various reasons. It could be founder-led, right? It could be very, um, purpose-driven. It could be something that [00:02:00] is deeply personal to them, or it could just be something that doesn't exist today.
So, um, usually there's a story behind it, and our job is to make sure that we tell that story, and that it connects with that audience in some sort of way that's meaningful and relevant to them.
Cameron: How do these brands find you?
Allisha: Oh, gosh, in all all different ways. Oh, gosh. Uh, a lot of times, um, in our social, uh, right, they connect with me a lot on, on LinkedIn or, or Instagram.
Um, most of the time it's referrals, uh, for us. It's with people that we've worked with in the past, um, 20, 25 years, um, who have been like, "Hey, I know someone who could help you out with whatever X, Y, Z problem you have." That's where we have generated the majority of our business, is through other people that we've worked with and for.
Cameron: Talk about how y- how did you get into this space? So you went to high school here in Rogers, went to JBU. What, what got you into the [00:03:00] marketing world?
Allisha: Hmm, curiosity. Um, I went to school for physical therapy. I realized it wasn't the physical aspect of, um, humanity or, or what, um, really drove people. It was the psychology part of it.
And so I started studying business and marketing, and it just fascinated me, um, that change in behavior and what motivated people, their, their desires, their beliefs, and, um, how the psychology part of how all of that worked and, um, you know, just seeing how marketing was evolving during that time. And I got a unique opportunity, um, to enter into the marketing space.
Someone took a chance on me, uh, without any background or experience, and, um, then went into the agency world, got to work on the Procter & Gamble business- Mm-hmm ... uh, which is, um, something I don't take for granted. That was my first foray into [00:04:00] CPG world, and I learned a lot.
Nick: Hmm.
Allisha: And, um, that was a pretty strong foundation for consumer products for me.
Um, it was, um, such an incredible experience.
Cameron: What would you... I mean, it, obviously here in Rogers, the CPG world's the heartbeat of, or one of the heartbeats of, of the Northwest Arkansas economy. Um, I think it's It's unique, you know, you're, that you as in Paradox, you and you inside the company are, are leading, you know, leading that.
When you're, when you're defining value for marketing, how do you show someone that you're adding value I mean, how do you, I mean, I assume it's like on the financial end, "Hey, here's how we grew, how we grew your, grew revenue." But I- I mean, if it's that, how do you, how do you, how do you identif- how do you measure that?
And then, or I mean, if it's not, how else?
Allisha: Yeah. Well, it has to be that, right? If we're not growing their business and not helping them sell more [00:05:00] whatever product- Yeah ... then we're not, um, truly, um, doing our job. But also, value is more than just sales. Um, and we have this conversation all the time. Value for us is, are we being a good partner?
Are we, um, really supporting them in what they need? Are we adding, um, you know, support to them that they need, whether it's advisory services, um, truly being an extension of their team, and giving them, um, the resources that they need above and beyond just a transaction? Because quite honestly, there are a lot of people who can do what we do.
They may not do it how we do it, but, um, the value comes in our team, our experience in bringing all that knowledge forward to them. And so our value is making sure that they get all of that and not just, um, the transactional part of it.
Cameron: Can you give an example?
Allisha: Yeah. Um, well, they get our full team, right?
And so it's not just someone [00:06:00] who is working on their business, um, managing their retail media, for example. They'll get a full, um, input and maybe even strategy from myself or my, um, COO or my CMO, who is deeply involved in, um, the business from a planning perspective and checking in. So we are as involved as their account manager, as their media manager, as anyone else in this team.
Cameron: Do you have a story with, like, a brand?
Allisha: Yeah. Um, oh gosh, uh, there's a lot of stories. Um, I'll give you an example. Um, the ... We just talked about a brand on our social, Althea Farms. Um, they are a pecan brand out of Morrilton, Arkansas. Mm-hmm. Um, and, um, they are what I would call an emerging brand, right? They're just getting their story started, and they, um, have an incredible history and legacy to, um, to their product [00:07:00] and to, to their business.
Um, and we're all deeply involved in that, um, all the way from the brand development, um, to the brand strategy and how they are going to market. Um, my CMO is on the phone with them almost every day, um, working through what that looks like and making sure that it's not just the account team or, or, um, a media manager that's working on that, but, um, that they have the right resources to make sure that they feel confident that they're moving forward in the right direction, and they've got the team in place, um, that is surrounding them.
Nick: That's good. So dumb it down more for someone who's, like, not in the CPG world.
Allisha: Okay.
Nick: So that brand-
Allisha: Mm-hmm ...
Nick: does it even exist in stores right now?
Allisha: They do not.
Nick: Okay.
Allisha: Uh, I say they, they don't. They do not exist in probably the stores that you shop in regularly. Okay. The Walmarts- Do
you
Nick: have product?
Allisha: They do have product.
Um, they're in more your natural channels, so they may be in a fresh market, um, [00:08:00] store. Um, they'll be in some, um, um, you know, natural grocers, um, type stores. Um, so they're just getting started. Okay. Um, and we're helping them figure out, okay, what is the next be- best path for their business that makes the most sense?
Uh, Walmart is probably not it. Um, so what does that look like?
Nick: Sure. Okay. And that, and is it just marketing y'all are focused on, or is it, I mean, is it product design? Is it packaging? Is it ounce size? Is it-
Allisha: All
Nick: that is marketing ... pricing? Okay.
Allisha: Yeah, all of that is marketing. So we are helping them with the full, what their, how their brand is showing up.
So their logo, um, their brand, um, their story, the content, um, the packaging design, what that should look like, and, and how people will perceive them, um, both, uh, on shelf as well as off shelf.
Cameron: How's that different than a retail brokerage?
Allisha: A retail brokerage firm is [00:09:00] someone who would work with a brand to help them, um, navigate the conversations with retailers directly.
We do not do that.
Cameron: Mm.
Allisha: We partner with retail brokerages, um, who may not have the marketing, um, function like we do, and we support them with that. So there are quite a few of those that we partner with today. But, um, but yeah, we work hand-in-hand, but we don't call on retailers directly.
Cameron: You're, you don't... Okay, yeah, you don't call on the retailers directly, but the, the brands and the retail brokerages- As far as like client allocation goes, are you primarily focused on brands or the retail brokerages?
Allisha: Both. Mm-hmm. Is it about
Cameron: 50/50?
Allisha: Um, our end client is the brands, right? But brokerages will come to us when they have a brand that they need help with. So, [00:10:00] um, they'll come to us and say, "Hey, I've got this really great brand. They need packaging support. Can you help them? I've got this brand who we're getting ready to launch in 2,000 Walmart stores.
They need a plan-
Cameron: Mm ...
Allisha: to make sure that they are super successful. Can you help them?" Because they don't do that. Um, there are a few firms that do some of the things that we do, um, but they don't do all the things that we do, 'cause really our services are end to end when it comes to marketing, so it's your...
Even creating brand new brands from scratch. So right now we're creating a brand new beer brand, for example, or we created a new pet brand, all the way from logo design, the look and feel, the naming, all the way through execution.
Cameron: These new brand, new brands, are they... Are, are you doing a f- like a feature revenue sh- share or...
on those brands, or is this... Is it truly like even a new brand's paying you a flat... They're just taking the risk of paying a flat fee?
Nick: [00:11:00] They're paying a flat
Allisha: fee.
Cameron: Okay.
Allisha: Yeah. Yep. Yeah, it's a services model, so, um, they'll sign up to say, "Okay, these are the things that we need." Um, and then we'll scope that out for them.
They'll pay us, and we'll deliver the product, and then they'll go to market with that. Um, in a lot of cases we'll then support them when they do get into retail from there, um, with a correct marketing plan to make sure that they survive, um, once they get on shelf. Because half the battle is getting in, but the really hard part is making sure that they actually stay on shelf.
Mm-hmm.
Nick: And how much of... Is your business ongoing for clients? Like, is, is any of it transactional, or is it all, like, long-term relationship oriented?
Allisha: Yeah, most of it, 80% of it is, um, ongoing retainer model.
Nick: Cool. Well, let's back up and talk about how Paradox was started, when it was started. Yeah. Just share a little bit of the origin story.
2019?
Allisha: Yes, [00:12:00] 2019. So I left corporate after, um, about 20-ish years in 2017. Um, my last role was Mars Wrigley. I was leading marketing for them. They're actually upstairs. Um, and, um, found myself in, with an opportunity to, um, consult a number of different clients, and had about, gosh, anywhere from 15 to 20 clients on my own on any given- Wow
day. Yeah. And I thought, "You know what? I've either got to say no, um, because I need to really make sure that I'm servicing them the right way, or what if? What if I created this agency that I know should exist, that we could support these brands in the way that they deserve to be supported with a model in the way that serves them best," right?
Because I truly believe the agency model is broken. The holding companies, the way that they're set up today, [00:13:00] um, is not in service of these challenger brands.
Cameron: Why?
Allisha: Um, they're in service of themselves. Yeah, the way that they're structured, um, their fee structure, how they operate. Um, most brands don't know how those agencies make money, and they're not given visibility to that.
Nick: Is it a percent of revenue or what, what- Um ... can you give a little bit more detail on, like, how it's broken?
Allisha: Yeah. So when a brand usually, um, has a campaign or project, um, they are not aware how those fees are structured. Um, let's say a brand is running an influencer campaign. There are fees baked into a lot of those campaigns that they are not given visibility to, and then the service providers also have fees baked in, and then there's fees within the media, and they don't have any visibility to that.
Nick: Hm.
Allisha: Mm-hmm.
Nick: So you saw that- [00:14:00]
Allisha: Mm-hmm ...
Nick: and?
Allisha: Mm-hmm. And part of w- well, one of my projects that I had in consulting was with a large corporation, was to evaluate, um, that business, and one of the things that I discovered was over 50% of their budget was going to fees to all these agencies.
Cameron: How does someone not notice that?
Allisha: It just happens. It stacks, and if they're not asking the questions, um, it, uh, it's just become the norm, honestly, in the agency world. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. And when you're an emerging and challenger brand, you cannot afford to have over 50%, and even upwards of that in some cases, going to fees. Yeah. You need more of your dollars going to working, right?
And so this conversation with this client, I said, "Listen, like, if you have $100, and [00:15:00] $50 of that is going to fees, like, and your, but your team is being evaluated on that $100."
Cameron: Yeah. "
Allisha: And your business is as well. So it's a pretty broken process. We, we've gotta fix that." So that's one of the, one of the issues that I saw of the brokenness with agency, and just the lack of transparency and integrity, right, that I have a problem with.
Mm. And it's still happening today. Um, you know, a lot of the, the partners will bring in other partners to outsource. Um, and that's why, quite honestly, we've brought a lot of the work in-house to reduce a lot of those third-party fees- Mm-hmm ... to put more of those dollars back into working for our clients.
Cameron: Yeah, then it all goes to the end consumer.
Allisha: Yeah, exactly.
Cameron: Anyways, so.
Allisha: Yeah. And the goal is to just increase that return for clients so their business is stronger- Mm-hmm ... um, and we grow together.
Cameron: Mm-hmm.
Allisha: It just works better that way.
Cameron: So what was your first step? I assume going to your [00:16:00] existing-
Allisha: Yeah ...
Cameron: um, like, clients that you already had.
"Hey, I'm formalizing this thing, and..." From what I read, you ha- you had a partner at one point, or ...
Allisha: Yes. Okay. Yeah. So first step was to start to map out what this agency could, should look like. And the vision all along was to be a place of, um, you know, an agency that felt different, it looked different. It wasn't, um, just to create a business for business sake.
It was, um, you know, to, to show up differently in the industry. Um, you know, what if, um, we created something that brands, you know, uh, especially in the challenger space, wanted to work with, right? The goal wasn't to work with the Coca-Colas of the mar- or the Mars of the world. It was to really be in service of those challenger brands who needed and deserved an agency to support them.
Cameron: Define challenger brand.
Allisha: Yeah, that's a good question. Um, there really isn't a solid definition of that because there's no particular revenue [00:17:00] number, um, for, for companies. It's a brand who, or a company who is ready to, um, go up against, um, you know, maybe a legacy, um, brand. They wanna operate differently. Um, they're ready to do things differently, um, to challenge status quo- Mm-hmm
um, to look at different opportunities or way of going about their business. It's a mindset. Is
Nick: there a quintessential one that comes to mind?
Allisha: Oh, there's actually quite a few. Um, I would say, um, there's, yeah, uh, um, Igloo's a really good example of this. Uh, legacy company, been around for a long time. They operate as a challenger brand.
They're not afraid to do things differently. They, um, are willing to test things. Um, the way that they approach, um, even their marketing, their communication [00:18:00] strategy, how they, how they do things is, is very different. Harry's is another good example of this. Um, willing to go up against Gillette, right? Um, pretty big business, um, who owned a pretty big share in the category.
Um, and we just did it differently.
Cameron: When you're having those conversations with those challenger brands, how much of it is you identify a brand and you're, and you are, you're, you're calling them saying, "Hey- You need to flip this on its head here. Like, this is ... You need to be different, and here's what different is defined in y- your, in your lane that we see it.
Or how much of it is, hey, it already is their identity, or they're, they're, "Hey, we're gonna go after the big guy, and, you know, we're gonna, you know, do X, Y, and Z that the big guy's not doing." Um, and then you're just kind of alongside them because they saw, "Wow, the, this is, this is what y'all do."
Allisha: Mm-hmm. Um, usually it's the latter.
Most of the time they've [00:19:00] found that they are, um ... There's some staleness in the category. Um, for example, this, this beer brand, um, that we're creating, um, you know, the category's been declining for five years. Um, there's a lack of excitement in the space, and we wanna bring it, bring the fun back, right? And so what does that look like?
You're going up against some pretty big companies, um, who have some pretty big dollars- Mm-hmm ... and, um, and a lot of, uh, loudness in the category. And so how do, how do you do that? Um, you've gotta take a different approach. Um, and so these brands who are ready to do that, they're, they're studying the space, um, a- as, as are we.
We're looking at all the dynamics in the category. We're looking at what's happening, looking at the shopper behavior, um, the competitive landscape, and then we're developing a different path, um, because we can't play the same game.
Nick: Hmm.
Allisha: Um, otherwise we'll get eaten up. Um, there, there will be a [00:20:00] lot of money that will shut that down, um, very quickly because a lot of those legacy brands are on the defense- Mm-hmm
and they have been for a while, coming after these smaller, uh, emerging and challenger brands. And if we try to play the same game, we're not going to win-
Nick: Yeah ...
Allisha: just by price alone. Yep.
Nick: So talk more about the Igloo example, 'cause I think that's one that if you're not in the CPG space-
Allisha: Yeah ...
Nick: most people know what an Igloo cooler is.
Um, when did... How long have they been a client, and like what is, what's an example of something that y'all have done for them, um, that maybe people could be familiar with or may not be familiar with? Whatever you can share, so.
Allisha: Yeah. So they've been a client for a while now. I don't know-
Nick: Yeah ...
Allisha: how, exactly how long.
Um, at least a year. And they, um... One of the things that we worked with them on, and it's really interesting, um, is you think [00:21:00] that a lot of these brands know exactly everything about their consumer and shopper. And they do seemingly, right? Everyone buys a cooler, right? Mm-hmm. Um, and same for, for some of our other clients.
Everyone buys tools or toys, um, in some regard if they're, they're parents, right, of certain ages. Um, but do they really know their shopper? Do they know the mindsets and the motivators and the barriers and the beliefs? And then how do they wrap that information around their go-to-market strategy, their messaging, their playbooks, their innovation, um, how they market to them?
And so we flipped that recently with that data and information, just taking already what they had, because a lot of times brands don't have a problem with data. They just have a problem really taking it and putting it into a [00:22:00] story that makes sense for the business, and getting traction with that and making some decisions based on that information, right?
And using it to, uh, and applying it to a strategy to go forward. So said in a more simple way, what we did with them was took what they already had and what they were already building as a, as a brand and as a business, and created a better strategy and a path forward that really put some structure around what we needed to focus on from a micro season, macro season, what products fit which consumers, how we needed to connect with them, how we needed to message with them, and it just makes sense.
Um, it's not rocket science, but it, it was very intentional.
Cameron: That's awesome. How does that typically go when you're developing a strategy for a client? Um, is there usually a, a gut feeling on here- [00:23:00] I immediately know this is, this is what we need to do. Does it take a few months? Um.
Allisha: I wish we had a few months.
Yeah.
Cameron: And prob- probably not. Yeah. No,
Allisha: yeah. We, we don't. Um, and it's, it's a process. Strategy isn't something that's one and done, right? It's not just something you create and you're like, "Oh, okay, here you go. It's beautiful, wrapped up in a bow." Constantly evolving. It is. Um, there is strategy and execution, and it's constantly, um, an iterative process- Mm-hmm
for us. Now, when we're developing a brand strategy, for example, when we start working with a client, we're taking in all this information, and we're studying, um, everything as much as we can. A lot of times they don't have a lot to work with, so we're looking at outside resources, whatever we can get our hands on.
Um, Google is pretty powerful.
Cameron: Okay.
Allisha: Um, so a lot of times we'll just work with what we've got, and then, yeah, in that case, it is gu- it's [00:24:00] pulling in the past 25 years of experience to say, "This is what we believe based on what we have experienced in this category," because we work across all cate- categories in this space.
So usually in a case like that, it's, "All right. Here's, here's, um, what we believe. Here's what we have found. Um, this is where we're going to start."
Cameron: Yeah. "
Allisha: And we're gonna let the data tell us then where we need to go based on this. We might need to refine some things as we go along, but this is where we're going to start.
Um, how does that feel?" Mm. Right, client? And, um, and usually, usually, I haven't run into a case where we haven't hit that, right? Um, it doesn't mean that there's not optimizations along the way, um, because it is really, really important that the data tell us where to go. Otherwise, we're flying blind.
Cameron: And you just tell the client on the front end, "Hey, we're gonna, we're gonna be, we're going to be changing this."
Allisha: Oh, yeah.
Cameron: And it's like-
Allisha: Yeah ... just you're- It's an iterative process ... yeah. Yeah. You're
Cameron: along for the [00:25:00] ride. Trust us.
Allisha: Uh-huh.
Cameron: It's part of the process. Yeah. Yeah.
Allisha: That's what they pay for.
Cameron: Yeah.
Allisha: Yeah.
Cameron: Are these, are these typically, like, year-long contracts? What's the... What's an ideal client setup for you to make it successful for them and for Paradox?
Allisha: Yeah, um, minimum a year, um, when they're on a retainer. Um, our, our standard agreement is two years.
Cameron: Okay.
Allisha: So, um, we have done some tests with some folks, um, that are shorter than that, which is, is fine. We're willing to get started, um, if it's worth it, if it's the right client for us, too. So when- What's the
Cameron: right client?
Allisha: Yeah, uh, good question. So we have a couple of rules. Um, one is that they're, they're good humans. We have a no asshole policy. Just- Yeah ... it just is. Life is too short, right, for us. Um, and so usually that's a gut check and/or some references, right? People who they've worked with in the past. I think second is, [00:26:00] um, can they pay their bills, do they- Yeah
'cause, like, that's a real problem, um, especially for small businesses and female owners in particular, I think. And then third is, are they willing to trust us, right? Are they ready to do something that's different? Are they open to, um, receiving, you know, our support and services and value the work that we do?
And we have to have those three things, otherwise it's not going to work.
Nick: That's good. So 2019, you start the business with a partner, starting a- Yeah ... marketing agency. Like, do you guys both have to bring capital to the table? Did you have to raise money? Like, what, what is needed when you start a business-
Allisha: Two gals-
for sure ... just going, sitting at a table with a lot of energy drinks and wine, and, um, you know, working through it together. That was about it. And a really good attorney working on, on some paperwork. But, [00:27:00] um, other than that, no, we just brought our heads together and, you know, what we had experienced the last, um, 20 years in, you know, parallel, um, businesses.
And, um, you know, she was more operations-minded. I'm more of a visionary. And so it worked, um, in, in bringing that thought leadership together. And, you know, it's really interesting when you start a business, um, where you were and h- and how that evolves over time. Um, it's pretty cool to see that, um, that journey and that transformation, um-
Cameron: You talking about you as a person?
Allisha: Um- Or as the business? Just even the, the business Yeah ... both, um, person and, and business for sure. Um, I think you grow up, um, the business and the, and the person together. So, um, yeah, so started out, had some really great traction. COVID hit. You thought that... You would think that that would be a hindrance on the business.
It was not. In fact, we took off, [00:28:00] um, um, and did quite well. There were a lot of companies who did not know what to do because the game changed. Yeah. Marketing changed quite significantly. The, the playbook, um, was, um, completely thrown out the window- ... and they needed to figure out what this e-commerce thing looked like for them.
Yeah. And we were a great resource for that. So we did really well during that time, um, grew quite significantly. What we didn't see was the supply chain part that came after that- Mm ... um, and where that had a pretty big impact to our business. Because if there's not product, we can't market it So, um, the after f- the aftermath of COVID was, was where that, that hurt us pretty bad.
Now, it gave us the opportunity to kind of reset and rebuild a little bit, and take a look at, okay, really, who were we serving? Who were the clients that we wanted to work with? Um, and really that's where we realized, like, this space ... [00:29:00] 'Cause we were working with some pretty big brands, the space of this challenger, um, that's where we were seeing just such a huge insurgence of- Mm-hmm
these new brands being created that came out of COVID, and, uh, fell in love with those brands, so.
Cameron: And when did the team start to grow?
Allisha: Really about that time.
Cameron: Okay.
Allisha: Really about that time, um, or shortly after.
Cameron: And when, when did your partner leave? Or what, what, uh, like when did it become you as the sole founder?
Or you g- you act as CEO-
Allisha: I do ...
Cameron: correct?
Allisha: Yeah. Yeah, so I took over the business at the end of 2023-
Cameron: Okay ...
Allisha: um, as CEO, and, um, and rewrote the entire business, um, from ground up. Kept the name, but, um, vision, mission, values. Really the vision has always stayed the same. Um, values changed. Um, and just really got back to the root and core of, um, our ethos and, and who we wanted to [00:30:00] be, um,
Cameron: to- What are your values?
What's your ethos?
Allisha: Yeah. Integrity is number one. Um, that's, that's most important, and again, it goes back to the comment I made earlier about why we were created, why Paradox, right? And why these challenger brands, um, deserve a better agency. So- Transparency, I guess, in that ... transparency- Yeah ... comes with that, yeah.
Um, authenticity is, um, the second most important with that, showing up your whole self, who you are. We have one of the most diverse teams for a group of sub 15 that I have ever seen, um, in any organization, and I'm pretty proud of that, and it's because of the culture that we've built here, um, for being so open and collaborative and welcoming.
And it's not to hit a specific number. You know, as i- in larger organizations they've got, you know, goals that they're trying to meet. It's just [00:31:00] naturally happened- Mm-hmm ... um, because of the way that we operate. Um, but what's really, really cool to see, um, the individuals here and their backgrounds and experiences and diverse thought and, um, you know, what they bring to the table because of that.
So pretty proud of that. So, um, authenticity is, is really important. It allows us to show up, um, uniquely ourselves and to celebrate that, and our clients love that. Yeah. Um, and then second or third, um, is curiosity. If we're not curious, um, constantly, um, asking questions and, um, being curious into why and what, um, we're not doing our jobs.
Cameron: How do you stay curious?
Allisha: Mm. Asking questions. Um, constantly asking questions. Um, seeking to understand. Um, exploring new avenues and paths. Testing new [00:32:00] things. Being open to feedback. Um, and making sure that, you know, we've got an environment that feels safe to do so. Mm-hmm. Um, and then the last one is driven.
I know for us, um, growth is critical, um, both personally and professionally. Um, and if we're not doing that both for ourselves and our clients, then we won't get to where we're going.
Nick: How do you measure growth?
Allisha: Mm. Uh, personally or professionally?
Nick: Professionally.
Allisha: Professionally. In the
Nick: business.
Allisha: In the business.
Yeah. Um, we measure it, um, on a number of different ways. We run on EOS, um, if you're familiar with that model. Um, so for us, we know exactly where we're going over the next 10 years and what that traction looks like to get there. So it's both within our revenue model as well as how that comes to life, um, our people, our profit, um, and what that looks like.
Um, it's also, um, how it shows up in the industry, [00:33:00] um, and our clients and how successful they are.
Nick: That's good. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think your, your business is similar to mine in, in that growth means retaining and actually growing.
Allisha: Oh, yeah.
Nick: And so how do you kind of-
Allisha: Mm-hmm ...
Nick: focus on both of those things?
Allisha: Yeah, I mean, we track that every week.
Um, and our retention goal is 90%, um, for clients. Um, and, um, you know, it's, that's a, that's a hard thing to do, especially when you've got these big retainers. Um, it's also, uh, it's also our biggest focus, right? 'Cause it's c- so expensive to gain new clients. Um, and our, our- To gain
Cameron: new clients?
Allisha: Mm-hmm. And our, our- Why?
process, um, because it can take anywhere from six week to, six weeks to six months or longer.
Cameron: Of courting, like, a new client?
Allisha: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. So time. Mm-hmm. Time is money. Yeah. [00:34:00] Um, any type of marketing activity, um, conferences.
Cameron: Sure.
Allisha: Yeah. So for us, it's making sure we're doing as much as we can for our current clients.
Um, yeah.
Cameron: And when... So 2023, you said you kind of rewrote the book on, on where, not necessarily where you were going, but, like, the, the values behind it, how you get there, uh-
Allisha: And what we were doing- Okay ...
Cameron: as
Allisha: well.
Cameron: And the offering.
Allisha: Yeah. What I realized we're, prior to that we were doing these six things, and that was okay for the period prior to that.
But what was happening was we weren't meeting these brands where they needed us to meet them in their journey, and it looks different for everyone.
Cameron: What were the indicators that, that... How'd you pick up on that?
Allisha: Mm, the sales process was broken
Cameron: Was your client telling you that, or were you just, "Hey, this is, like, not smooth," you could feel that?
Allisha: I could feel that. Um, I could feel that. I [00:35:00] could sense that in the conversations. Um, and the, there were discussions around, "Well, if you could, if we could just do this." Yeah. "Well, we need this, but not this." Um, and so one of the things that I also realized was our team was craving some work that they were really good at as well, that we were fully capable of doing.
And so bringing that back into the agency, and that's what our clients needed, and we wanted to do, and we were uniquely set up to do that. And so we brought those services back into the agency to support them, and really set up a different model for how we were supporting them. So we don't do everything, um, for our clients.
There are some things that we don't do. But there are some fundamental services that we do offer them that will set them up for success that we are very capable of doing.
Cameron: And is the ... I know you said there's obviously, like, multiple people that are, a [00:36:00] lot of people in your space. Um, and from what you said so far, like, the, you know, how you, uh, go about strategy- Mm-hmm
how you listen to the client, um, the attention to detail there. Is the offering necessarily different, q- unique here versus- Mm-hmm ... somewhere else?
Allisha: Yes. Yeah, we sit at this weird intersection of service providers, so someone who might do one of the things that we do. Mm-hmm. Right? They may have a, a widget or something that they offer.
Um, retail sales brokerages that you mentioned, and some of them kind of do some of the things that we do. We have these, um, larger brand agencies, and then some of these shopper agencies, um, that exist that really serve more of your larger CPG companies. So we, we kind of sit in the middle space. Um, and there's really not a lot of us.
In fact, there's really none of us that exist here in Northwest Arkansas. Um, so [00:37:00] we're in a unique position to be able to serve these challenger brands in a way that they need us, and we meet them where they are.
Cameron: Yeah, what makes you different from shopper marketing?
Allisha: We are shopper marketing Said another way, retail marketing.
It's the same thing
Cameron: Okay. But like the other- Yeah ... like these other larger companies that are here that say, "Hey, we are shopper marketing."
Allisha: Mm-hmm.
Cameron: But like I th- I thought what you just said then was-
Allisha: Mm-hmm ...
Cameron: you are, you're not fully in that spa- like
Allisha: So they are s- they are set up to support your Coca-Colas, your Kimberly-Clarks.
Yes, yes. They're supporting the, the larger brands. They don't, they don't work on the challenger brands, the smaller brands-
Cameron: Gotcha ...
Allisha: that we do.
Cameron: And that's, that's the differentiator. Correct.
Allisha: Yeah. Yep. And their, their model isn't set up to do that.
Cameron: Mm-hmm.
Allisha: Mm-hmm.
Cameron: Can, is that sustainable to be s- set up for that long term?
Allisha: Yes.
Cameron: When did the [00:38:00] business really take off?
Allisha: Hmm. 'Cause
Cameron: I mean, y'all have got some... I mean, I, I feel like you're kinda downplaying, "Hey, we have a few little clients." Y'all have some very, like- Hmm ... y'all are doing a lot here. Uh-
Allisha: Yeah ...
Cameron: and, uh, I mean, like, I, I guess na- national presence. But, uh, yeah, when, when did it feel like, "Oh, wow, the, the rocket's starting to take off," or, "Hey, we're, we're, we're really, we are really moving"?
Allisha: Uh, gosh, I don't know that, um, there was a rocket per se. Um, I feel like, um, really after 23, after we rewrote the playbook for ourselves, right? And set a stronger foundation for our offering and how we wanted to go to market, how we wanted to serve these challenger brands, how they needed us to serve them.
Mm-hmm. Right? We listened. We wrote it. We set up the models, the [00:39:00] systems, the process- Yeah ... the tools to be able to do that for them, and that's when it started to work and take off.
Cameron: Were you doing a lot of outbound sales then?
Allisha: No. No, we weren't. We have a, a growth manager and myself. Um, I think it was just having more conversations, um, going back to some of those discussions that we had had in the past to say, "Hey, like, these are some things that we offer now."
Um, it's really been one-on-one discussions. Um, we've never really done a lot of marketing for ourselves until just recently. Yeah.
Nick: And talk about the full suite of things y'all do. Did- sounds like that did change. Like, was marketing always pricing, packaging, promotion? Like, was that always part of the plan, or did that change in '23?
Like...
Allisha: Yeah. [00:40:00] No, it wasn't. Um, there were really six things that we did before, and they were more tactic driven than anything. Um, I think we were missing a lot of the strategy component. We didn't do a lot of brand development work. We wouldn't have done, um, a lot of packaging design. We wouldn't have been really involved in creating a new brand for Dollar General or building a new pet brand or a new beer brand.
Um, and so those opportunities have been pretty cool. Um, we didn't do a lot of research before, um, shopper research. We do a lot of that now for brands, which helps us build those strong strategies- Mm-hmm ... right, um, and better marketing plans. And so a lot of that foundational work, um, really helps feed into some of the more commerce work that I call, because no media or influencer plan or marketing plan is going to work if we don't have a solid foundation.
Sure. [00:41:00] You're flying blind. It could work for a little bit, but sustainably, no. I mean, it's not going to, um, it's not going to, um, work long term unless you have a lot of money to throw at it.
Cameron: Yeah. What, what's been one of your most, your, one of your proudest moments over the last three years with a client?
Allisha: Okay. I wasn't sure where you were going with that- Yeah ... with a client or- With a, with a brand ... or internally. Um, gosh, that's a really good question. There's so many. Um, proudest moment with a brand. Hmm. I would say-
Good question
Cameron: Gotcha on that
Allisha: one You did. Oh my gosh. Um, you know, it's really cool to be able to create something and see it come to life from scratch. So we did [00:42:00] launch a new brand, um, with a partner for Dollar General, and it's in market. It's a owned brand from nothing. So the naming, the development, um, and that, that's really cool from all the research, um, and the packaging.
It's not super sexy, but it's really cool- Yeah ... to be able to see something that you created come to life. Um, additionally, I would say, you know, being, um, a partner with a new brand now that we've been courting for the last five years- Mm ... um, and advising, um, you know, in the background, and now seeing their success come to life, and being their agency of record, and helping just be part of that rocket ship that they are on, that feels pretty proud for me, um, knowing that we had a small part in that.
And we've been cheering them on, we've been [00:43:00] advising and helping them, but now we get to be part of that story, and that feels pretty cool. Um, that sometimes, you know, timing is everything, and just being a good, um, partner it, it may look a little bit different
Nick: Is that Health-Ade?
Allisha: No, it's- Okay ... Genius Gourmet.
Okay. Um, Health-Ade is an incredible story. You know, for them, they are a, um, partner for us that is near and dear to my heart. They took a chance on us almost three-ish, almost four years ago, and have been ... When, when I say, like, an ideal partner, they are an ideal partner for us. They have gone through massive changes internally with being bought out by Generous Brands.
They have continued to lean in and trust us. Mm. Um, you know, we've, we've won some of their business, lost some of their business, won some of their business back, and lost some of their business [00:44:00] in terms of some of the services that we bring to the table. And, um, you know, they just continue to lean in, um, in terms of their, their openness in working with us, and their, our relationship with them is super strong.
Um, and it's fun to see them continue to grow-
Cameron: Mm ...
Allisha: um, in the space that they're in. And now with the Generous Brands portfolio, um, beverage is hard. Um, that's a really tough category, and they're doing it, and they're doing it really well, and they're doing it in a smart way. Um, and it's really cool to see their success, for sure.
Nick: What's the hardest category you compete in?
Allisha: I would say that one
Nick: Yeah
Allisha: But yeah. There's just so much churn.
Nick: Yeah
Allisha: Um, if there's 15 beverages that launch in a year, there may be three or four that make it, maybe.
Nick: Hmm.
Allisha: Mm-hmm. There's a lot of innovation. Um, there's not a lot of loyalty in this space. Um, so [00:45:00] it's, it's a really, really tough category.
That and beauty- Yeah ... is really hard. Beauty's tough because of, um, the younger generation and their lack of loyalty as well. TikTok shops. Gen
Cameron: Z.
Allisha: Yes. My daughter.
Nick: Oh.
Allisha: Yes.
Nick: That's funny. And then talk about, have you guys always serviced... I mean, not, not maybe in putting wear. Or how many retailers do y'all service?
Allisha: Uh, all.
Nick: Okay.
Allisha: Yeah.
Nick: So if I come to you with this brand, and I sell it in Fresh Market, I don't even know how many Fresh Markets there are.
Allisha: Yeah, I don't either.
Nick: Oh.
Allisha: Uh, but yes, yes. Okay We have brands that are in Fresh Market.
Nick: Okay.
Allisha: Um, obviously being here in Northwest Arkansas, our bread and butter is Walmart, and we've worked on Walmart business for a long, long time and have really great relationships there.
We're a preferred partner to them, too, so we get the opportunity to work directly with them and do some testing and, um, things like that. With that being said, not everyone [00:46:00] is the right fit for Walmart, and that's okay. And so oftentimes we'll work with brands who are m- maybe more in the natural space, or they're e-commerce focused, or, uh, maybe they're direct to consumer, and then eventually they wanna move into the retail environment.
So, um, we will meet them where they are. It just depends. But yeah, there's some brands, like, uh, Jinx, um, Pet Food, for example. I, I don't even know how many retailers we have, um, working with them, but it's a lot. Um, g- HealthAid is another one. There's a lot of retailers- Mm-hmm ... that we service with them. And the reason why is because- The more that we can work on additional retailers, the more that they are able to be able to pivot if they need to, to pivot, um, and spread their dollars.
But then also make sure that they have, um, consistency in how they go to market, because people shop multiple retailers, and you want that consistent communication strategy, um, no [00:47:00] matter if they walk into a Harps store or a Fresh Market, um, that they... the brand is showing up in the same way, um, and they have a great experience no matter where they shop.
Nick: But I assume that creates a lot of work for your team, because every retailer has specific rules on how brands can show up.
Allisha: Oh, they do.
Nick: Okay.
Allisha: Yes. But we know them. Sure. Uh, we know them really well. Um, and they change often, so we're constantly studying that, refreshing that, and making sure that our team has the resources to be able to, uh, keep up with it.
So that's the challenge, especially with all the technology and AI, um, that is coming out, um, is just keeping pace with that.
Cameron: Mm.
Allisha: Mm-hmm.
Cameron: Yeah, I mean, in, in challenges, yeah, let's get to today, the-
Allisha: Yeah ...
Cameron: you know, kind of talking about the, I guess, today's and, like, the last 12 months. Um, um, how have you seen, like, the industry as a whole, and then, I guess, Paradox specifically, [00:48:00] rising cost, and then, you know, the A- AI piece?
What's happening in, uh, with the industry, and then maybe, like, what's been the most challenging thing with Paradox right now?
Allisha: Hmm. Well, the industry in itself is a paradox right now. You have this weird dichotomy of rising costs, um, some, you know, tariff Hangover-ish, some uncertainty with the economy Yeah, maybe not your
Cameron: product, but your, in your shopper, shopper marketing.
Allisha: Sure. Uh, so you still have all of that that impacts us- Mm-hmm ... right? Um, especially our businesses and brands, um, because at the end of the day, uh, these companies that we work with, they only have so many resources. And, um, a lot of times we're sitting at the table not just having conversations about marketing, we're discussing supply chain.
We're discussing their [00:49:00] full business model, and what their strategies are, and what this year and next year looks like for them. So it's not just marketing, um, that we're discussing. So there's a, a lot that's going on in that space. And, um, you know, I talk a lot about this, the, the uncertainty aspect of, of what the rest of this year's going to look like from a consumer and shopper perspective.
Um, and, and including what next year will look like. And so brands are already starting to prepare for that. Um, what they're not necessarily thinking about is, okay, how do I really create a solid strategy for myself in making sure that I'm showing up when maybe others are getting quiet, um, and that my voice is clear and that it's strong during that time?
So that's one conversation we're actively having with our clients. Like, don't go dark, just be smart, and make sure that it's strong and clear. [00:50:00]
Cameron: I think- The money that you spend, use it wisely.
Allisha: Correct. And then, um, secondly, there's still so much energy and excitement around, so you- you're met with both of these things.
There's still so much energy and excitement around, um, this industry and this space for all that innovation, and newness, and new brands launching, and, um, um, you know, what's happening in quite a few of the categories which we are seeing growth. So it's this weird, um, intersection of, and, and sometimes all in the same day, of, you know, excitement and then worry Yeah
um, that these brands are facing, and it's exhausting for them. And especially as, uh, for these founders, they're constantly going through these motions of exhaustion and, um, and, uh, overwhelm.
Cameron: What's it like for you?
Allisha: Same. Same, 'cause I carry a lot of their, uh, worry and stress as well. [00:51:00] Um, and you know, even for us, it's like, okay, if I'm thinking ahead, um, because we have to, uh, COVID taught us that a lot if nothing else, um, how do we prepare for that?
And how do we make sure that our clients are set up for success in that way, and that they're not going to have some of the same experiences that they may have had in the past too?
Nick: What, um, what's been, like, the hardest moment since you started the business over the last seven years?
Allisha: Oh, gosh, there's a few of those.
Um, there have been a lot of hard moments, I'm gonna be honest with you. Um, I... They're there on purpose, right? This, this story is already written. God's got this, um, beautifully laid out, and it's very intentional. And those hard moments I know now are there, um, for various reasons. Um, and I don't take those lightly.[00:52:00]
And, um, grateful, you know, for the opportunity to weather some of those storms, as hard as that is. Um, I will say there's some of those that I hope to never go through something like that again. But with that being said, I think the people part is the hardest part of this job Of any owner, the people part is the hard part.
The marketing part is the easy part. I think about it in my sleep. I dream about what I do all, all day long, all night long. Um, the people part is, you know, they're the first ones that I wake up thinking about and the last ones I think about before I go to bed. I carry their weight, their stress, their emotions, you know, what's going on in their lives, and their livelihood on my shoulders every day.
Um, and when we have to make hard decisions, that, that, uh, that hurts, and it gets, it gets real tough. Um, and it's really hard to separate [00:53:00] the business from that- Yeah ... too, especially when you're surrounded by these incredible individuals, and you get really close to them 'cause you're here all day working really closely with one another.
Um, and those decisions will never get easy. All right? Um, but that's part of the job. Um, and that's the hardest part
Nick: Who've been some mentors or people you've looked up to or who've been just a great resource for you and leaned into you during this season of business ownership since you started-
Allisha: Oh, for sure
Nick: with Hogs?
Allisha: I wish I would've had them earlier on, to be honest with you, um, and sought out their advice earlier in this journey. But, uh, man, I'm surrounded by some incredible individuals. I have a coach that I work with, and I meet with her, um, lately daily, uh [00:54:00] but if not, um, on a weekly basis. Um, she doesn't tell me what to do, but she guides me very clearly.
Um, her name is Lauren, and she has been an incredible partner to weather some of those storms and, and help me navigate, um, some of those tough times, so... And also cheer me on, um, when, when I need that, too. So entrepreneurship, um, as you probably know, is a lonely road, um, sometimes. And, uh, you know, even when you're surrounded by incredible people and spouses and advisors, it just feels that way.
So having a coach has been, um, one of the best decisions. Our EOS facilitator, Justin, is also just such a wonderful human, and he has been a game-changer. So one of the things that we did when I took over the business was implemented EOS, and that, um, that is when we saw the trajectory of the business [00:55:00] change, when we had a clear vision, a clear plan for traction, and, um, and a path forward.
Cameron: Mm-hmm.
Allisha: Right? And so when you have that vision and that path laid out and everyone knows what that looks like, and you can all move in the same direction, it's pretty clear. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Now you just gotta execute it. It's just the reps. Right? Yeah. Over and over again. Easy, right?
Cameron: Keep rowing.
Allisha: Right. Yeah.
Cameron: Um-
Allisha: Um, and then the, uh...
There's a few, quite a few other folks, right? Steve Blair. What would Steve do? Um, and he's, he's a phone call away usually. But there's, there's quite a few other folks that are out there that are just... They've gone before me. Um, I, um, look up to them and are constantly, you know, trying to absorb as much information from them as I can, um, and then also pay that forward to others.
I spend a lot of time mentoring other businesses and founders and, um, students as well. Yeah. Um, [00:56:00] if I can give back or help support them in any way- Mm-hmm ... I'm happy to do that.
Nick: That's awesome.
Cameron: So let's, let's talk about the future a little bit now.
Allisha: Okay.
Cameron: Um, what's exciting about the future? What's, uh, what can people look forward to at Paradox, um, whether it be clients or just kind of the out- you know, tho- those on the outside just watching what's going on?
Um, yeah, what's in store for the next couple years?
Allisha: So many exciting things. Um, gosh, where do I start? Um, we are on a massive growth trajectory here. Um, we have built a solid foundation. We have worked through every process, every system, every tool. We've built some incredible, um, stuff here as well over the last 12, 18 months, and have some more work to do, but we're in a really great place of doing that hard work, um, and getting some of that ironed out, which feels really good, right?
And I don't think you're [00:57:00] ever done as a entrepreneur or, or founder of, of building and tinkering. Um, I try to remind my team that. But, um, but finally, like, settled, right? Seven years finally, like- Yeah ... feeling really good about that. Um, and now it is just, just going, right? Um, and so it, it really is cool to see the clients that are coming to us, um, and the caliber of clients that are coming our way.
And somewhat surprising, um, there are some, some bigger companies, um, that are, that are interested. I think they are tired of, um, the broken agency model. Mm-hmm. And they're ready for someone different. They're ready for something new. Um, they're ready to, to show up in a different kind of way, um, and ready for a different team to, to do that with, which is awesome, and we're here, and we're now built for that, and we're ready for them.[00:58:00]
Um, we've got some strategic partnerships that are underway that are ... I'm so excited about. Um, and we now are structured in a way that allows for us to be able to bring in the right talent and the people, um- Mm-hmm ... to continue to grow our team.
Cameron: Uh, I guess, like, an out- outside investment angle?
Allisha: Potentially
Cameron: Yeah, yeah
Allisha: Yeah.
We haven't taken any funding yet. Um, it's not off the table, but there's, um, conversations.
Cameron: Okay. That's amazing. Yeah, it feels like kind of back to what you were saying right before then, the, the nature of this economy we're in is, is rewarding those who are, um, who are creative and who are, who aren't just getting in line on, "Hey, this is how things have been done," even two years ago.
Allisha: Mm-hmm.
Cameron: Um, I think it'll be really interesting to see how all this plays out over the next 24 months.
Allisha: Yeah, I agree. Um, you know, it's, [00:59:00] it's been really interesting also. We've had a few companies ask about, you know, or inquire about acquisition and, um, you know, partnership, and I'm not saying that that's off the table, but, um, I'm not done here yet, so.
Cameron: How do you know?
Allisha: How do I know what?
Cameron: That you're not done here yet.
Allisha: Mm, I don't know. Maybe I'm never done. Um, you know, I think that there's still just, uh, there's still some things to be done. There's still some work to, to happen, and maybe that is in partnership with someone, but we shall see.
Nick: What's, like, the most fulfilling thing to you about what you do?
Allisha: This team Watching them grow. Watching them grow, watching them succeed, um, watching them get recognized for their work with our clients, um, watching our brands grow because of them. And, um, yeah, it's pretty cool to be able to see what they're [01:00:00] able to achieve, and the- my job is to pour as much into them as I can and to support them in every way, no matter where their journey goes, right?
If it's here, if it's somewhere else in their career, um, my job is to make sure that they're ready for that.
Cameron: And how do you define success?
Allisha: For me or just in general?
Cameron: Or personally. Mm. I mean, like p- personally or, or can, in, in general- Oh, gosh ... but obviously would love a more personal touch on it.
Allisha: Yeah. I think success is, uh, a very personal, um, definition because it just depends.
For me, it's happiness. Um, for me it's, um, you know, at the end of the day, have I lived truly into my values as a person? Have I shown up authentically myself, um, with integrity? Have I, [01:01:00] um, done what I said I would and fulfilled what my mission is that God gave me to do? And did that bring me joy and happiness?
That's success for me.
Cameron: And, uh You know, you said you're not done yet. You wanna keep going, keep growing. Hopefully even more businesses keep coming to Northwest Arkansas or are started here. Um, that's one of our goals here with the podcast. It's our ethos or our why. Um, what would you tell someone why build a business here in Northwest Arkansas?
Allisha: There's so much potential. This community is so incredible. I got to be part of a mentor camp a- a couple weeks ago, where there were some new businesses that came to Northwest Arkansas to be part of, um, a group of, of different mentors from different, um, [01:02:00] industries and backgrounds. And it was so fascinating to be able to watch, um, the different, uh, experiences that they had and what they were able to gather, the amount of knowledge and support.
Um, there's a genuine care for, uh, entrepreneurs and founders in this community. People want you to succeed here, and, um, they're willing to support you and to give you advice, to cheer you on, um, and to sit across the table from you, you know, whether it's a cup of coffee or a glass of wine, and just listen, um, and, uh, and just be there.
So I think, you know, there's no other place in this country or world that this type of community exists today.
Nick: Well, one of the things we do at the end of every episode is we try to summarize and capture what we learned from you today, what [01:03:00] we think our listeners are gonna learn from you, and the whole goal is to encourage entrepreneurship, encourage people starting businesses in Northwest Arkansas.
And, uh, the first one that, like, really stuck out, even from walking into the office, was the, this word creative. Like, you're obviously creative. You're, the people here are obviously creative, the, the chairs we're sitting in to the way the office is designed. Um, even talking about your service offerings for Paradox, like, it's, it's very creative.
Um, and it's, it's unique the way that you guys are going about business, being more transparent, flipping the script on how agencies are run. And so I think from the onset, like, anybody who's gonna listen to this is going to see what it's like to be creative, and that's something I could use a lot of help on.
Um, so it's good to learn from you in that way. The, the next one's curiosity. I think that was, like, a very common theme throughout the whole conversation. You're, you're, you're curious, asking questions. Your team's curious. [01:04:00] Um, that's clearly what drives success is the ability to be curious and to ... Like, you can't serve your customers unless you truly know what they're walking through.
And even hearing you talk about marketing, I think a lot of people have this idea in their head of what shopper marketing is, and it's not the way just the, the package is designed or how many ounces scissors in it or how it's priced, and that's holistic. And, um, I think that's driven by your curiosity.
So really, really cool there. And then I think the last one, um, that we learned today was just, just how focused you are. Um, and talking about just who your ideal client is, even defining it as a challenger brand, having a very vivid description of what a challenger brand is. Um, a lot of people are 10, 15 years in the business, they don't even know who their, you know, ideal client is.
And so you've, you've clearly been very focused on that. It's led to a lot [01:05:00] of growth. Um, and so just really cool to hear you talk about that, and even just the integration of EOS into your business, how that's helped you stay focused, and how much growth has come from, from having an actual process. Um, so just really cool.
We both learned a ton today.
Cameron: Yeah, I think the one thing I'd add to that, too, I think what's been so unique in our conversation this morning is d- different from, you know, I think each one of these founders have kind of had a different little take. But it seems like you, like, ache in your bones for your people here and your clients more than anyone we've talked to.
Like, it- how you, like... I mean, when we walked in, you kind of carried it on your face, and, like, and just the... It just, it's... I, I mean, I feel it, like, very, in a really real sense, and, uh, it's encouraging. So, um, I think, yeah, I hope, hope, hope we take that and everybody else takes that, but-
Allisha: Thank you ...
Cameron: appreciate it.
Allisha: Yeah. [01:06:00]
Cameron: Yeah. Well, thanks for joining us, Alicia.
Allisha: Yeah. Thanks. Thank you for having me.
Cameron: Yeah. Thank you.