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The Harvester Podcast is brought to you by the Florida School of Preaching. Listen weekly to take a dive into biblical topics and thoughtful studies on things that matter to our eternal souls.
Jesus gave his life a ransom number on Calvary, on Mount Calvary, cruel Calvary.
Welcome to the Harvester Podcast, season number two, episode number five.
And we are here with you from Lakeland, Florida.
I am Brian Kenyon and with me is
Steven Ford
Forest Antemesaris
And we are glad that you have joined us today for our podcast.
And we've been dealing this season two with cultural issues.
And last episode, we were talking about uh cultural lies in disguise.
And we're going to finish that out.
And we were looking at three basic lies in disguise in our culture.
And the first one we looked at last time.
Was the status quo is oppressive.
And what this is referring to is kind of goes back to Marxism and the status quo is
oppressive.
means all the troubles we have now is because of our traditional American way.
And so the way to get rid of the status quo is to just tear it down and get rid of
everything traditional.
which would unfortunately include the Bible, would include the Constitution, and all these
kind of things.
But we looked at that and saw how that God has never promised a utopia on earth, and so
there's always going to be oppression no matter what, especially for those who live godly
in Christ Jesus.
The second lie in disguise we looked at was self-expressed individualism is necessary for
your worth and identity.
And in looking at this, we consider things like, your identity consists of your inner
feelings, your inner self, and whatever you think your inner self is.
You must be allowed to express it, which is why sometimes when you see the pride parades
and see the way people are dressed and all that, that's why they have all these just far
out outfits and stuff, because it's what they think is them on the inside.
But yet we realize, and from that we looked at some passages in the Bible that talk about,
our identity is bound in creation made in the image and likeness of God.
Well today, the third lie and disguise that we'd like to talk about culturally is that
sexual relationships are inconsequential.
Sexual relationships are inconsequential.
And what really started this, you know, I thought it was Woodstock or the 1960s, but it
wasn't in so much the decade itself or the, you know, the concerts, but it was the, I
don't know if you say the invention or the development, I guess, the development and
release of the birth control pill.
And that changed society's view, the cultural view of sexual relationships.
And before that time, you know, sexual activity was basically reserved for marriage.
But since that time, since the pill, then now sexual relationships are almost
recreational.
And whereas there used to be a fear of visible consequences by somebody getting pregnant
out of wedlock, but now that fear has pretty much subsided with the pill.
And so because of that, marriage
is no longer necessary in the minds of many.
And so that has done a lot to really affect the culture's view of sexual relationships.
Yeah, this idea of kind of like consequence less sex.
I don't need it to be in the confines of marriage because I'm not worried about
childbearing.
I'm not worried about the responsibility.
I'm not worried about the commitment.
I don't have to find the perfect Prince Charming.
can just it could just be with whoever whenever.
And I think, too, you know, I know we talked about the pill.
think, you know, Roe v.
Wade happened there in what 70 early 70s.
So I think that plays along with it, too, because I know a lot of people who
You know, the only people I personally know who got an abortion did so almost as
contraceptive means because they were pregnant and they didn't want to be, not because of,
you know, the situation around the pregnancy per se, just simply because they were
pregnant and they didn't want to be.
So I think, you know, those things really go hand in hand too.
Not that all contraception is bad, that's probably a whole other podcast episode, you
know, but this idea that I can have a sexual relationship or sexual activity without
consequence, I think is novel, but also is false.
I'm going to get to that later, so I don't want to go ahead of us, but God designed sex in
such a way that it will always have consequences.
Even if there's no pregnancy, there are emotional consequences, there's psychological
consequences, there are...
Spiritual consequences, etc.
Etc.
So the idea of you know, sex without consequences really is a bill of goods that Is just
sold to us without any truth
And not as you mentioned for the way they got to design sex, it has things that are
intrinsically involved with it.
Not necessarily negative things, but there is an emotional aspect to a sexual relationship
that is supposed to be there.
And when it's treated casually, you have all sort of chaotic.
know, fallout as result of it.
There is an actual psychological connection that you have with a person in an intimate
sexual relationship and when those things are overlooked, you know, regardless about the
contraception argument and those sorts of things, but in addition to that, just ignoring
the emotional, psychological, spiritual aspect of it has tremendous fallout and it's no
wonder people are willing to do
any and everything as a result of engaging relationships.
mean, if you just look at the last 150 years of all the things that people have done for
the name of love, which is really lust for sexual relationships, and you think the way
that people behave.
people shoot one another over sexual relationships and you have all these sort of demented
ways of thinking now because we've engaged in sexual relationship with three, four, five,
eight, ten, twelve, a hundred people and we think that's not going to have an emotional
consequence and it absolutely does if you just follow the biblical pattern you'll see that
just
exclusively in the book of Proverbs.
know, there's all these warnings and admonitions about being cautious about sexual
relationships.
And if we would just take the time to heed some of those warnings, I think we would do
well as a society.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, that's good.
I want to touch on that too, but when Forrest was talking and reminded me, I need to make
a distinction between birth control and conception control and birth control.
just dawned on me as Forrest was speaking, sometimes they'll include abortion in with
that, that include the abortion pill, the so-called quote abortion pill unquote.
And so a lot of things.
so uh those methods, well, of course, depends on what you mean by, by
abortion pill.
Yeah, I guess that's it.
Depends on what you mean by that, of course, and that's a different, I guess, podcast or
topic altogether.
But what I'm saying is, know, abortion is not, even though people use it to control birth,
it's not really what we're talking about here.
Conception control would be scriptural.
uh Induced abortion would not be.
And so that's the distinction that has to be made.
And I've always thought of it better as conception control, preventing the conception.
is not sinful, terminating a pregnancy intentionally would be.
All right, but anyway, having said that, and of course other things are involved in that
as well, but sex is just looked at today so much differently.
Even, of course, I'm older than you guys, but even in my lifetime I've seen the way that
has changed, the culture's perception of that has changed.
But as we realize, you know, God has defined
marriage.
And of course Genesis 2 is the place to go for that to begin with.
And of course in verse 18 of chapter 2, and of course chapter 2 beginning in verse 4,
Moses goes back and he gives more details on certain parts of the creation.
We do know that Genesis 1, 1 through 31 are the six days of creative activity.
the exodus talks about and six days god made the heavens and the earth and the seas and
all that in them is but then beginning in chapter two verse four he begins to detail some
different parts of creation and so in verse eighteen the lord god said it is not good that
the man should be alone i will make him a helper comparable that's the new king james
translation out of the ground the lord god formed every beast of the field and brought
them to adam to see what he would call them and wherever adam called
each living creature that was its name and and gave names to all the cattle the birds of
the air to every beast of the field but for adam there was not found a helper comparable
to him and so god already knew that it was not good for man to be alone and always
wondered why he would have adam name all the animals and course maybe there's something to
him having dominion over them that's involved in that
But as I read this, when I get to verse 20, it kind of seems that the main reason why God
had Adam to name all the animals is because now Adam himself knows it's not good for the
man to be alone.
And so these verses tell us that uh mankind needs intimate companionship.
And that intimate companionship is not found in the animal world.
And so in verse 21, the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam and he slept and he
took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh in its place.
And then the rib which which the Lord God had taken from man, he made a woman and he
brought her to the man and said, this is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh.
She shall be called woman because she was taken out of man.
so mankind needs intimate companionship.
Verses 21 through 23 tell us that that intimate companionship is to be found in the
opposite sex or the opposite gender and When you notice here God made the woman from his
side And he brought her to the man But God didn't have to introduce her to him because as
soon as he saw her He said bone of my bone flesh of my flesh.
In other words, she is just like me only different
And as he named all the animals, you know, they were created male and female.
And so as he names them, he sees each animals has a male and a female.
But for me, there was not found to help me.
But now he immediately recognizes she is just like me, not like any the animals, but like
me, bone in my bone, flesh in my flesh.
And so she shall be called woman, which woman from my understanding as means wound man in
its etymology.
And when you think about the natures of men and women,
They are the same except for the reproductive organs and as I like to say the wiring that
goes with it.
But man, that intimate companionship is to be found in the opposite sex.
And then finally verse 24, therefore shall a man leave his father and mother and shall be
joined to his wife and they shall become one flesh.
And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
so mankind needs an intimate companionship.
that intimate companionship is found in the opposite gender, and that intimate
companionship found in the opposite gender is to be fulfilled in marriage.
And that's what God planned for marriage.
That's a good text.
This past Sunday there was a sermon here on this very topic on marriage right from this
exact text and one of the interesting things like you mentioned in verse number 19 and 20,
Adam is naming the animals and I've always been kind of curious with the same thing, what
was this process like?
So Adam has to see, okay, here's a cow, okay, a tiger, all right, a bear, a penguin,
whatever these animals are that he's looking at and he has to notice that biologically
there's not one suitable for him.
I'll use that term, complimentary for him.
And so as he's seeing all these things, and it is my opinion only, this is not a Bible
commentary, this is Steven Ford's opinion, that that happened for a reason, so that he
could see that these things are not designed for me, and not just designed for me
physiologically.
And that's where sex is going now, where it's only about biology.
But there is also a...
I'll just use the term theology with it also, where God is absolutely involved in the
relationship between man and woman because God first brought them together.
God also created a complimentary mate for Adam, so it's all involved with God's authority
and how he put it together.
Then, like you mentioned, when Adam, can you imagine seeing a bear, a dog, all these
animals, and then for the first time, you wake up and boom.
there's Eve.
What must that have been like to have to see Eve for the first time, man?
You know, that had to be amazing for him to, and not in a sexual way, know, perverse way,
but for him to open up his eyes and for the very first time see a mate that's
complimentary to him, that, you know, that can communicate like him, that is made in God's
image like him, that, you know, has the same, you know, physiological makeup as him,
sexually complimentary like him.
And this is the one that got brought to him.
to become one flesh with, which indicate not just the physical part of it, but there's the
emotional, spiritual connection, and then the physical part that they get to enjoy
together.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think, you know, you see this paralleled.
I know I don't want to jump ahead of us, but you these other references here to Matthew
19, Ephesians 5, where the Bible is constantly pointing back to here to show us, hey, this
is this is what it's about, right?
Like everything the Bible really teaches about marriage originates right here from this
text.
And it's this idea that there's something inherent to us.
So to take something that is a part of the marriage relationship, which is so foundational
to who we are as human beings, and to divorce it from the marriage relationship, is
there's gonna be consequences and it's not gonna be wise.
Very good.
And I don't know, Steven, if you realize, but when you first mentioned those animals,
those were all animal crackers.
I got hungry when you mentioned that.
No, but seriously, no, good stuff.
yeah, Genesis 2.24, and I always like to think of those passages, because Matthew 19, 5
and 6 quotes Genesis 2.24 as does Ephesians 5, 31 and 33.
And I've always said that marriage is not a Church of Christ thing.
It's not a law of Moses thing.
It's a human thing, human relationship.
And, you know, Genesis 2.24, it was written by Moses, but it occurred during the time of
patriarchy, whereas Matthew was spoken of to the Mosaic dispensation, talking about the
Pharisees there that tested him by asking him that question.
And then Paul uses it in Ephesians 5 in the...
you the christian age and so in each period of human history religiously that marriage
stands you know god-ordained marriage
And even the age to come, because sometimes people say there's no marriages in heaven, but
there is a marriage.
And the bride and the bridegroom, right?
And sometimes we forget, like, that's what it's all working toward.
And that's how much, that's how important marriage is to God.
Of all the things he could use to describe, you know, the eschatology of where we're
headed as the saved, he uses marriage.
He uses the lamb and the bride.
Ephesians 5, one of my favorite passages to teach and preach from for that exact reason.
He could have used anything in the world but to show the beauty of the harmony between
Jesus and his church.
He says...
I'm gonna use relationship between making love with this marriage institution.
That's just like one of the most awesome things in It shows also how serious God takes it
because sometimes it would be the argument about marriage, divorce, and remarriage.
Why is that this way?
Why is it that way?
Look how high God views marriage.
Look at where it is on the priority list in terms of the way God looks at it.
So if that is the case, if he takes this institution and compares it to this eternal
vision that he had for all of mankind, it's probably pretty important.
be trivialized.
yeah people say it's just a piece of paper don't make sense of his neighborhood but we
will say it when i remare in heaven i was saying about you but i'm gonna be happy i'd like
i plan on being part of the right there you know m
because kind of going back to what Steven said, it's like, because when you read that the
whole context from 21 22, Ephesians 5 22, all the way through the end, he has in there
over and over again as Christ loved the church as like as and so he's comparing it.
But we would never know that until we get to, you know, verse 32.
This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ in the church.
And so the whole time,
Marriage was intended to be an illustration of Christ in the church, but it wasn't
revealed that that was the purpose of it until Paul reveals it.
Because, you know, a mystery is something that was once hidden but is now being revealed.
And I just think that's so awesome that we can look back, you and this is another
illustration as to why, you know, we're more blessed to have the completed Word of God
than, you know, those in the miraculous age, because we have stuff like this that we can
go back and look
Absolutely.
lot of people think the miraculous age was the best age.
Oh, I wish I could live in this age.
It's like, no, we have all of it to be able to look at.
And before we move on from marriage to find by God I just want to mention five points of
God ordained marriage and this I got from Sammy Jones back in 1990s at Fritz Hardeman
graduate school of marriage and the family he taught a class and these have always stuck
with me but from Genesis 2 24 marriage is a monogamous relationship a man and his wife and
of course now day and age we to say a monogamous heterosexual relationship
That's just our culture, but it was never intended to be multi spouses uh Same-sex
marriage that was never intended.
It was a man and his wife Secondly marriage as God ordained is intended to be a
companionship relationship and the word help meet The old King James help meet which I
believe is even two words in the old King James and Then this one had help helper suitable
What did you have in the ESV?
Do you remember?
Anyway, but comparable, think maybe helper comparable.
And so anyway, but it's a companionship relationship, helper comparable.
also secondly, the with the companionship, and this was said at my wedding, and I
sometimes say it when I do wedding ceremonies, but she was taken from his side, not from
his feet, that he should trample over her or from his head, that she should rule over him,
but from his side.
And so they are companions, husband and wife, uh equal by nature, but different roles in
the home and in the church, but they are companions.
Thirdly, it's an interdependent relationship, interdependent, which means that they rely
upon one another.
Husband and wife rely upon one another, therefore shall a man leave his father and his
mother.
And so leaving...
father and mother of course doesn't mean we don't have anything to do with them, but it
just means we're going to rely upon one another now, husband and wife.
When things happen, we don't go running back to mom or running back to dad.
We work things out, we're dependent upon one another.
And then fourthly, God ordained marriage as a commitment relationship, a commitment.
Shall Cleve, leave father and mother and Cleve, or be joined to his wife?
And so the
D-I-V-O-R-C-E.
The seven letter D word should not even be an option when people get married.
And I know in our day and age it's like, know, we'll just try it for a while, try before
you buy or something like that.
oh That's just not going to cut it.
When it comes to marriage, there must be that commitment as we enter into it.
And then fifthly, the permanency of marriage.
Marriage is permanent.
Therefore shall a man leave his father and mother, shall cleave unto his wife, and those
two shall be one flesh, the permanency of it." And although the one flesh does involve
that sexual part of the relationship, but even more than that, it's referring to
permanency.
We often hear in wedding vows, you know, till death do us part.
And there is no human marriage with one another, Matthew 22, in heaven, but there is
course marriage married to the lamb spiritually uh...
to christ but but those five things are marriage avoid stuck with me the parts of god
ordained marriage monogamous companionship interdependent commitment and permanent
And it takes something that's reserved for a relationship like that.
And it just do that with whoever, wherever, I think just shows.
And again, not to bash people over the head or anything, but I think that's why, know,
fornication, Paul even says, first Corinthians six, there's something about it compared to
other sins that is different because it's like to your own body, you know, and you're
uniting yourself with somebody in a way that's reserved for a specific relationship.
that always has consequences that come with it.
Yeah, we, several years ago, we got that Covenant Eyes thing for our cell phone and kids
and stuff.
Yeah, and when you sign up for that, they send you all this stuff about pornography and
all this stuff.
And so I was reading through that and it was talking about pornography's effect on the
brain.
And it kind of compares it to heroin and stuff like that, like drugs.
But as I was reading that, I was thinking, wow, God is awesome.
Because if
If we fulfill those desires and things in marriage, which is where God meant it to be, all
those brain receptors and stuff, they cling to your spouse.
And that becomes, you know, all the negative things that pornography does to the brain
when those intimate relationships are done right the way God made it.
uh All those evil negative things of pornography are positive things in marriage because
just the way the brain just the Yes, and I remember Thomas B Warren's book marriages for
those that love God to love one another added language Yes, we added language.
He talked about that in there and that's kind of kind of all goes together the way God
made marriage
Right.
And I love that image Thomas B.
Warren had of sex and marriage as an added language.
I remember I had a friend and he and his sibling had a made-up language that they would
speak to each other that only they knew.
It was like Pig Latin.
It was like a weird version of Pig Latin or something.
But all that to say that illustrates that was a bond in their relationship.
They only spoke that language with each other.
Right.
And if they start speaking that language to all these other people,
that language would become less special to each other because it wasn't something that
just they had anymore.
You know what I mean?
And I think the sexual relationships like that where it's supposed to be that added
language in the context of that commitment.
m
It's a perversion of what God created.
You're still using the physical act that God created, but you're misusing where it
belongs.
And that's why the brain is just kind of turned to mush almost emotionally.
Like you were talking about what happens when you look at pornography and all that kind of
stuff because it's not designed to be...
divided like that.
It's supposed to be attention toward one person.
And when that attention is given to that one person that one way, it creates an amazing
connection and bond, which takes away the desire and need for the other people.
all of that energy is focused in that one person.
There is nothing that's gonna break that connection.
Whereas if you have it divided all over the place,
Well, it's weakened now, it's perverted now, it's twisted, it's gonna just be kind of all
over the place.
And so it really speaks to why God made sexual contact between the husband and wife to
have so many facets to it.
It's not only reproduction and it's not only physical pleasure and it's not only
psychological, it's all of those things wrapped up into one.
And it has so much effect on the mind.
I think most people understate and
don't appreciate how much it affects us, which is why you have all the kind of craziness
and things that people will do now to try to achieve some sort of happiness or joy or
pleasure, is it's supposed to be in a certain place.
And then when you dilute it and pervert it and change it, it just warps everything.
And again, that just goes back to the awesomeness of God's design.
Absolutely.
That's the way He designed it.
And when we utilize things, no matter what it is, but especially in this case, marriage
and a sexual relationship, when we practice it the way God intended it for to be done, I
mean, that just is awesome.
It just goes a long way and just, you know, binds husband and wife together.
for life like they should be, like God intended for them.
If you use God's things, God's ways, you get God's blessings.
That's right.
Man, that's awesome.
which is his intended result.
By design.
By design.
It's not like an accidental result.
It's like, oh, okay, well, I guess, yeah, that's okay.
I know he designed, he worked in that we would have this blessing at the end.
And if we just do it his way, we can have that blessing.
Right.
And so yeah, marriage, of course, it, you know, there's about three reasons I found in
scripture that, you know, marriage is for procreation.
Uh, marriage is for intimate expressions of love and marriage can just be for just plain
old companionship.
I mean, the old idea that, you know, your marriage is not consummated unless sex occurs.
I mean, you know, that would rule out paraplegics from getting married, you know, sex is
not.
it's important for the mayor doesn't define marriage
I think the sarcophagus idea so that they can know.
Yeah.
I know some brethren that have tried that too.
Yeah.
What if there's a situation where you have some sort of physical limitation for a while?
You get married but you can't join yourself to your spouse for 60 days or you're not
married.
What about that?
And it also goes exactly against Scripture in Matthew chapter one, that Joseph took unto
him Mary his wife, but he knew her not till she brought forth her firstborn son.
And so she was his actual wife, but they did not biblically know one another until Jesus
was born.
that's a good point But the procreation thing I mean a lot of people I think even
sometimes in the church Christians have a worldly view of children sometimes, you know
that they are a burden and obviously there there's difficulties that come with it, but You
know that they're a burden and that sometimes even they're like disposable and things like
that Not that Christians faithful Christians may be getting abortions, but just this idea.
I think sometimes we drink the Kool-Aid
of how the world views children.
And I think it's unfortunate because of what the Bible says about children.
know, there are arrow in your hand, blessed is the man whose quiver is full, all those
kinds of descriptions later there's an episode you guys will hear about building Christian
culture.
And I think one of the big ways we do that is our kids, that our kids are different, that
our kids are trained up.
that our kids are, you know, all those things.
And that's part of the way I think we change the world for good.
You know, as our children and the light that they can shine.
In addition to you know, and I agree with you this is not to refute that necessarily but
just to agree with We have to start it at home at ground zero We've got to teach our kids
but they have to see a model too if they see mom and dad, know hugging and loving But then
they see dad also winking at the waitress they are going to learn that behavior too and
they're gonna
they're going to minimize the sanctity of marriage.
But if they see a solid Christian relationship like the Bible describes it should be, and
we live it out, they see it modeled, they will...
duplicate that same thing hopefully.
And they can find other spouses.
I pray now for my daughter's future spouses and they are 12 and 16.
And for their families so that I know that somebody, God is raising two boys that
hopefully will marry my two girls and they can go on and create good Christian families.
But we gotta start it in our home and not just by teaching, though that is also good in
scripture, but by.
about modeling.
Yeah, I'm thinking about Matthew 1, that sermon about, you know, people can see the way we
live, they'll glorify God.
So too will our kids.
And I get I would made a point one time last time I preached on marriage that a Scriptural
marriage is not just two people who are scripturally eligible to be married to each other
If that is the definition of a scriptural marriage, that's not I mean a scriptural
marriage involves a lot more Absolutely than just two people who are scripturally eligible
to be married to each other You know, there has to be love there has to be service has to
be sacrifice has to be all those things
And I think that should be our goal to build truly scriptural marriages.
Yes, both parties are eligible, but that's like the least common.
That's a bare minimum.
know what I mean?
oh
Like the preacher getting in the pulpit, I mean that's just the easy part.
Studying and all the stuff that goes behind that sermon, that's important part.
And when that part's done right, then the sermon comes out right.
Yeah, for sure.
That's a analogy.
As the home goes, so goes society.
We've heard that before and it's so true.
And people think I'm nuts when I say this, but I mean the husband wife relationship with
some people, that's the most important relationship on this earth.
Absolutely.
Between earthly people than you can have.
Yeah.
You your spouse, your relationship with your spouse should come before your relationship
to your children.
Absolutely.
And the best thing you can do for your children is to love your spouse.
Husbands will love your wives like the church because they will learn so much just from
that about God about Christianity about commitment and just by doing that and then
presupposes as Steven said that husband wife are Conducting their marriage as God wants us
to and that that just speaks volumes
and so marriages for procreation children being brought up and appreciate what force it
about that change in the culture by through our children and instilling those values in
them and then of course marriage is for intimate expressions of love and we'll just know
these passages to read on your own the proverbs five fifteen to nineteen and first
corinthians seven three through five and so those passes talk about the intimacy that god
intended to be in marriage
I heard this a long time ago and I just can't refute it that I know of, I don't know
everything about it.
you know, humans are the only ones of God's creation where that sexual relationship is for
other reasons than procreation.
I don't know if you ever thought about that before, but in the animal world, it's only for
procreation.
But in the human world, as God created us, it can be for pleasure, it can be for intimacy,
can be that added language that we talked about earlier.
And that's just a tremendous blessing that God has given us.
Yeah, use, use, use rightly.
the answer the air and this relationship is not a dirty thing when done in the place where
god put it but it's god's design god's blessing particular proverbs five passage will talk
about the blessing of of that relationship and so god is good but we did uh...
mention is throughout this that the ultimate marriage is that marriage feast of the lamb
that will commence when jesus comes again
And so being able to analyze and weigh through and make our way through these cultural
issues and these lies and disguise will help us to be better Christians and help us to
change the culture for good in Christ.
And so any final thoughts?
I think you should, we should read your last slide here because I think this is the
perfect summary.
Yep, to counter lies in disguise, we must know the truth, believe the truth, live the
truth, and teach the truth.
Amen.
John 8.31 and 32.
so we appreciate you listening to our podcast, and we'll have another couple of episodes
dedicated to the subject of homosexuality, which is really a big subject in our culture
today.
But thanks for joining us.
and we'll look forward to having you again the next time on the Harvester Podcast.