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Dig In is your go to source for insights innovation. It's for anyone with a genuine interest in fostering brand and product growth, exploring groundbreaking innovations, and embracing the dynamic world of expanding businesses and brands.
Jess Gaedeke (00:05)
Hi everybody, I'm Jess Gaedeke Chief Commercial Officer at Dig Insights and host of the Dig In Podcast. Today I was joined by Kunal Mehta. He is Global Head of Marketing, Communication, and Brand at DSM-Firmenich, Animal Nutrition and Health.
And we talk about a lot of really interesting things. We talk about his time with the Kit Kat brand in India and one of the most inspiring campaigns that he was a part of, some of his viewpoints on brand building, both from a corporate but also a personal brand standpoint. so we talk about a lot of really interesting topics. let's dig in.
Jess Gaedeke (00:35)
Hi Kunal thanks for joining me today.
Kunal Mehta (00:37)
Hey Jess, wonderful to be here. Thanks for having me.
Jess Gaedeke (00:39)
Yeah, we're gonna get into it with an impromptu question that you have not seen coming. So here we go. What's one smell that instantly takes you back somewhere?
Kunal Mehta (00:48)
that's an easy one actually. you know, the smell of this deodorant called Brute, I don't know if you you know this in a in a green bottle. growing up, my my dad when he would come back from from work, that was the smell that I remember even until now. I would go and hug
Jess Gaedeke (01:02)
Really.
Kunal Mehta (01:03)
him and and that's the smell or sleep next to him. That's a smell that's still so powerfully instilled in my mind. And maybe it's got to do with that I'm now in the world of branding and it kind of connects back. But that's that's the name that immediately came to my mind.
Jess Gaedeke (01:15)
Yeah, yeah. that's so special. And I love how immediate that answer was. You could tell that it really does stick with you.
So tell us a little bit about yourself, your background, and where you are now.
Kunal Mehta (01:24)
Sure. So well I'm from India but now I live in Switzerland. I have about twenty years of experience in marketing. Worked across companies in India and now Switzerland, retail, consumer goods, C P G and now in animal nutrition. So that's that's really what what I've been doing. But across all these different companies they sound very different, but I think one thing that connects them all is so called human behaviour.
And that's something I really enjoy, irrespective of whichever company I work with. Why do people choose what they choose to do, why they buy, why they behave the way they do. So I think that's something that I always find as as a common ground. and maybe it's also got to do with my background. So I specialize and at my my MBA in strategic brand management and integrated marketing communication and consumer psychology was one of the topics there. So maybe there is it's it's got to do with that.
But this is something I sort of enjoy doing. currently I'm the global head of marketing, communication and brand at Animal Nutrition and Health at DSM Firmenich animal nutrition is not something that people associate as easily as consumer goods companies. But I think it's an it's exciting place because it's it's at an intersection of what's happening with the food system, what's happening with the climate, sustainability.
but I think this industry is going through a a revolution of source, so it's it's an interesting time to be in here.
Jess Gaedeke (02:42)
Definitely.
Well, a very rich journey and a lot of experiences that I'm sure we'll tap into as we get into the conversation. So so let's dig in. our listeners really crave inspiration from leaders and one of the best ways to inspire is to tell a story. So I think you've got a really interesting story from your time at Nestle. And I love stories like this that are about a brand that we all know and love.
that was going through a moment of change and you're gonna talk to us about the Kit Kat brand. So go back to the beginning or the time that you sort of joined this initiative. What was the context at the time? What was the brand sort of facing?
Kunal Mehta (03:15)
Yeah, yeah. And of course I gave you a bit of a teaser, but I think you know, even before we get into the story, probably for for your audience it's important to r to tell them that when you work on a brand as big and as iconic as Kit Kat, it's a responsibility, first of all. You know, every person who r manages a brand like that, they they take it that is a responsibility. And therefore everything about that brand is important. and and if we talk about the tagline, for Kit Kat the tagline, have a break, have a Kit Kat.
is not just a slogan. It's it's a ritual. It's a philosophy. It's been there for more than sixty five years. And marketers can come and go across the different markets that the brand operates in. But that is something that they keep very sacrosanct. So and my story is about that, that we decided to to flip it completely. Not tweak it, not modernize it, flip it completely. And that what I thought would be an interesting story to share with you and the audience. But I need to give a bit of context.
Before I moved to Switzerland, I was working with Nestle in India and I was heading marketing for Kit Kat there. And back in 2016, we came across some disturbing statistics. So in India, forty percent of girl child were not completing secondary education as per UNESCO estimates. And eight out of every hundred girls were dropping out of class ninth and class tenth, grade nine, grade tenth. and the numbers were really staggering.
But the stories behind that were even more heartbreaking. So we tried to understand what's going on, why is this happening? And reasons were like there was social pressure, there were things like household chores, caregiving duties, financial pressure. So there were houses where people were choosing to put that limited money on a male child or educating the male child instead of the girl child, so a bit of patriarchy there. things like infrastructure.
So girls, especially when they reached grade eight and ninth and when they started having the periods, they found it difficult to walk in schools that were so far away. So the infrastructure was a problem. And also linked to that was a bit of digital vulnerabilities. We started seeing cases of online bullying, harassment and all of those were were reasons that that girls were just pulling out. and we as a company felt that this is a crisis that we need to speak about.
We need to do something about it. And Nestle actually decided to to do a campaign using three of its iconic brands, Maggie, Nescafe, and Kit Kat. So that was the starting point. And for Kit Kat, for for me the question was that look, this is a brand that's always been a brand for breaks. Can we talk about something which is not a break? Which means then not a break from education, because you know when we talk about breaks, it's a sort of a luxury. But in this case it was becoming a threat.
Because for them, for these girl child, it was almost that break was becoming permanent, that break from education. They would not come back the minute they would stop. So how do we really talk about it? And we thought that you know, a brand as big as Kit Kat, the biggest property that it has it is is its packaging. That's one of the biggest cultural real estate that it has. And Kit Kat packs are consumed by millions of households in India, through supermarkets, through retail stores. So we decided to
change the packaging completely and change the slogan completely from have a break, have a kit kat. The line that we chose was no break and we called it no break from education. And for me it's it's really a wonderful story because it was a great example of showing that you can actually take a brand and give it a voice and give it a voice for people who cannot be heard, who cannot really say what they're going through. So that was that was really nice because the campaign opened conversations.
It raised awareness. people were speaking about it. They were not just buying an another wafer and chocolate brand. They were now buying into the message that girls of India should continue on their education, their future should not get interrupted. So that was something that was really powerful. But I must tell you just that it's very easy to tell the story now, many years down the line. At that moment, like I said, a brand who's kept its brand guidelines so sacrosanct.
It's not an easy job to go and tell the global headquarters that we're gonna flip the the tagline completely. How do you convince them? You know, and and I I remember those were tough conversations. They were not willing to see it. Of course, then we had to show some statistics, we had to give and tell them what's the big thing behind it. I also remember telling them that, you know, you're actually not diluting the brand. You'll you'll make the brand so much more powerful in India, emotionally so much more relevant. Because imagine a brand that stands for break
he's taking a stance of talking about those breaks that the girl child should not be taking. You know, education should not be like a choice that's forced on them. So all those reasons kind of they saw the light of it. They gave us the green light. And then for that short moment we were able to really flip the tagline. But it was so powerful that it even got recognized after we did the campaign in the global headquarters. And probably that played a role in me moving then to manage Kit Kat globally because I then moved to Switzerland. So
Who knows? But this is my story and I thought you know it's a great way that sometimes you can break the rules of these global brands as long as you know that you're doing for a bigger cause and you still believe that it's not gonna harm the the thoughts of the brand.
Jess Gaedeke (08:08)
Yeah, absolutely. Gosh, there's so much inspiration built into that story and what a meaningful, campaign that really changed people's lives at the end of the day. And you mentioned, it's really a challenge to convince the global headquarters that this is the right, the right choice. I am curious, like did you face barriers along the way? Like what types of tough conversations did you have to have or where did you have setbacks as you tried to bring that to market?
Kunal Mehta (08:32)
Yeah, I think some the conversations were in line with okay, if we allow one market, what stops other markets from trying to mess around with the brand? the fear that this is a brand that's been built on the power of consistency. Are we are we walking away from that? What about that? Are we going to confuse our consumers that this is a brand that's always stood for breaks and suddenly we're talking of no break? So that was something that it took a bit of convincing. But
But when you have statistics like that and we show that what's going on and it's it's a the cause is bigger than that momentary risk, I think everyone sees the you know, the importance behind why it matters.
Jess Gaedeke (09:05)
Yeah, definitely. Well, what's your biggest takeaway from that experience? And and no doubt it contributed to your continued growth, but I am curious as you reflect on it now, what's your biggest takeaway?
Kunal Mehta (09:14)
Yeah, I think my biggest takeaway is that as marketers we can play a role beyond just the immediate profitability and sales. We can create long term impact for people who we directly or indirectly connect with or reach out to. And I think sometimes you can be brave enough to challenge some of the norms as long as you believe that it's not in the long term
you know, harmful way of the brand, but it's also it's it's the right thing to do. That that's one thing that that I've held on even until now.
Jess Gaedeke (09:43)
Well, what a tremendous story. Thank you so much for sharing it. another reason to love a a well loved brand moving forward. So we're gonna dig into now some of your passionate points of view as a leader. And I'm really excited to get into this topic because I'm also very passionate about it. but talk to me about some of your views around brand building and especially how that's changing in today's world. Like what does it mean to really build a brand today?
Kunal Mehta (10:06)
Yeah. you know, one of the things I'm I'm extremely passionate when we speak about brand building is the power of consistency. I've always believed in it. I've been taught to to kind of you know, think like that on the brands that I worked on. I've seen the impact of that. In fact now in the past few years we we saw the success of James Clear's book Atomic Habits. If you think about atomic habits, basically he's talking about the power of consistency.
And and you know what really I find delightful is the fact that in the world of AI, L LMs are actually rewarding brands that have been consistent. So it's not walking away from the fundamentals of marketing. you look at Kit Kat, I I spoke about its tagline being around for more than sixty five years, but all these iconic brands that we know, that we associate, that we recognize across the world, they have reached their success because of the power of consistency. So for me brand building is all about
deciding to be consistent and it can be consistent in terms of whether it's the logo, the messaging, the positioning, the tagline, could be one of the elements of those brand properties, could be many of those elements. But you go and choose some of them and then go behind that. And and the fact is that Jess, you spoke about brand building. Today we all know that personal brands matter as much as commercial or these marketing brands. And even in personal brands, consistency is the foundation.
You know, you and I are connected on LinkedIn, so you may have seen this. I am I'm pretty consistent when it comes to posting on LinkedIn. I've been doing this for the last eight, nine years almost on a daily basis. And I've seen the impact of that consistency in terms of things that I didn't even even imagine. So while there is a certain joy that I get in doing a post, but those posts have opened doors for me. I've I've got invited for podcasts like these, I've got invited for jury roles, I've met people
at trade shows who I don't know and then they've told me that we know you because we've seen some of your content on LinkedIn and and and that's really wonderful to hear. I also sometimes do mentoring and sometimes when I meet some younger marketers and when they tell me that they got some great value out of a post of mine without me even realizing for me these are just examples of the rewards that you get by being consistent. So that's why for me consistency in brand building
are are two sides of the same coin.
Jess Gaedeke (12:18)
Yeah. Yeah, they go together. Well, and it's interesting because when you do have that consistency as a brand, whether it's a personal or you know, a corporate brand, it actually gives you freedom to take big swings. So as long as you have the anchor of your ethos and what you stand for and how you consistently communicate, then you can do wacky things because you've built that that sort of foundation. Do you agree with that? I've and have you taken any big swings either in your personal brand or brands you've worked with?
Kunal Mehta (12:44)
Well personally of course when I do some of these things like like posting regularly, I'm also trying to experiment a bit in terms of going out of my own comfort zone. I mean I can talk about brand building and marketing at any time of the day, but sometimes I'm trying to speak about geopolitics and economics and I'm not the expert there, but I can have a point of view. So I like to also see what happens when I do that.
And because you built your own personal brand in terms of being authentic, in terms of sharing your point of view, people respect that as well and they they also engage with that. So so that possibility does exist. so that's that's definitely there. I'm trying to think of examples of from my career as well. And one of the things now that I I suddenly remember is that before Nestle I also worked with another C P G company, Britannia, which is a big biscuit manufacturing company in India, and I was
heading their cookie brand Good Day. And we were running consumer promotions there for for many years and one of the consumer promotions that we were running were we were giving these nice plastic bowls free with every pack of a biscuit or cookie that that the consumer was buying. And we had seen some great success for three years in a row. But the third year in a row we wanted to dial up the value of that. And we thought that, you know, sustainability being one of the reasons, aspiration being another reason
so the idea was that we wanted to dial up the consumer promotion and we said that let's let's you know start giving these glass bowls free with our packs instead of the plastic bowls. And it was a logistical nightmare because you can imagine sending glass bowls thousands of kilometers from one part of the country from the factories to the different retail stores, never been done before. how do we take that risk?
What if this consumer promotion fails completely? and we decided to take a swing in terms of that we thought, what if you bring an insurance company into into the conversation? and this was something unique, not something that had been tried. So we reached out to an insurance company and we said, Will you be willing to to kind of insure all these glass bowls? And of course we'll pay a premium and if it took a while for them to also see is this something that they could pull off. And then we agreed on a certain percentage that
When we receive the bowl from the supplier, we'll do random checks at our factory. If there are breakages at the factory level, then it's for the supplier to make the payment. If the glass bowls break in the transit, and then we do some checks at the retail stores, then the insurance company comes in and pays. And all of this, you know, really helped us in in achieving huge success in our consumer promotion, but also the credibility because
Consumers who were interacting with this brand already expected that they will get not a broken bowl. Even if we're promising a glass bowl, they will get an intact bowl. And so when they would go out at the retail store, the the sheer delight on their faces to to get a glass bowl, which they were not expecting, and that too complete unbroken, it was something that you know, it's a swing that we took and it paid off.
Jess Gaedeke (15:30)
Yeah, definitely. Wow, gosh, I can't even imagine those logistics. Sounds like you were able to navigate through it pretty well. I'm really curious what your hot take is on the future of the animal nutrition industry. I find it very fascinating and I'd love to hear your your point of view.
Kunal Mehta (15:44)
Yeah, I I mean, of course, been here now in this company for eight years, I've seen lots of changes. But I think for me, right now what's interesting is that we're standing at the edge of a massive leap forward. And I'll tell you why I say that. You know, for a few years this industry was talking a lot about sustainability, transparency, productivity, efficiency, all as separate ambitions. But we've reached a stage where now the future is all about convergence. You know, it's all about bringing together this the nutrition science.
data measurement, sustainability impact into this one integrated value chain. And and and I think that that really makes it exciting. And it's no more theory. We've seen this. Companies like ours, companies like DSM Firmenich Channel Nutrition Health, we are proving that when you can connect the dots with feed millers, with feed producers, with farmers, you can really unlock a completely new operating model of how we do animal farming. You know, we used to speak about better feed for the animal, but now we're speaking of better outcomes, better outcomes in terms of
emission management, healthier animals, things that are right for the planet. So this makes it really exciting. and you know the good part just is that it's no more something that only the industry talks about. And I'll tell you give you two examples of the change that I saw that others outside the industry are picking this up. So earlier this year, BBC launched a show called Animals and Us where they wanted to talk about the interdependence between animal health
human health and the planet. Now this is rare and unique. BBC wanting to talk about our industry and of course we leapt on at that opportunity and we partner with them. And out of their 14 episodes, one of the episodes features us where we speak about one of the challenges of the industry. We speak about what we're doing to mitigate those challenges. We show how our how we partner with our customers. But for me what's important is that a a big platform like BBC is now coming and talking about
what this industry is doing. And and so therefore you know the great work that the industry is doing is no more hidden, is no more just limited to our limited value chain. So that's one example that that really comes to my mind. And and the second one that's coming to my mind is earlier this year, and this is where Jess you and I met, I was at the cannes lion festival and I was invited at a podcast there at the sport beach where people wanted to ask and understand from us that what's the parallel between sport nutrition for human health
for human nutrition and animal nutrition. And for me to be able to talk and draw those parallels to talk about precision, measurement, data, performance, this for me was was such an aha moment that here we have all these top athletes sitting and talking about what they're doing to to drive performance and I could connect the dots with what they're doing and what we're doing. So I think I've seen that shift in the past few years. And that's really what's
What's my hot take and what's also getting me excited?
Jess Gaedeke (18:25)
Yeah, what an interesting bridge and be able to talk about that at a stage like can, that's pretty cool. So we're gonna move to the final dig. This is all about you as a person. So feel free to take off your professional hat for a moment and give us the the consumer Kunal what's the last product or service you bought on Impulse?
Kunal Mehta (18:41)
I think a few days back I picked up two limited edition cans of Red Bull and I'm not a Red Bull drinker at all, so this says a lot. There was the colours of the cans, the flavors. It was this special summer edition and the FOMO in me got to me and said that I should I should pick this up. So one was a lemonade and the other was wild berry. So I just picked them up. So
Jess Gaedeke (19:01)
Yeah.
All right. And still still buzzing. Still buzzing from it.
Kunal Mehta (19:05)
Yeah.
Jess Gaedeke (19:05)
let's say category or a brand or a product that you could rationalize any price point for. You just have to have it in your life.
Kunal Mehta (19:12)
I don't have a direct answer to this, not at on not a particular category of product, but one of the things I use to introduce myself on LinkedIn is that I call myself collector of experiences. And then for me, experiences are extremely important. You know, these are these could be like I said, I love traveling, it could be travel related, it could be sport related, it could be something that I get to learn. and and for for me, if I'm paying for an experience, then price becomes secondary. So as long as it's something that
helps me to really try something new, broaden my horizon, I'm willing to pay for that. So that would be my my answer to that.
Jess Gaedeke (19:45)
Yeah, yeah, it's a really good answer. And we know that brands have distinct personalities. We've been talking a lot about brand building. What's a brand that you would date and a brand that you would marry? And it's up to you. They don't have to be the same brand.
Kunal Mehta (19:56)
A brand I would marry would be Tiffany, the jewelry brand. I think Tiffany stands for grace, quality, class, trust, predictability, all the things that you would want in in you know, in a in a marriage. So I think Tiffany would be my answer to that. And a brand that I would probably date would be Zara, because
Jess Gaedeke (20:15)
Mm-hmm.
Kunal Mehta (20:15)
Fresh, modern, constantly changing, i is a bit unpredictable, is is trendy, fun to be with. So yeah, Zara would be answer
Jess Gaedeke (20:24)
Yeah. Yeah. Really good answers. Absolutely. What's one word that you would use to describe your job two years ago and a word that you would use to describe it today?
Kunal Mehta (20:34)
Just one word?
Jess Gaedeke (20:34)
Just one or a phrase or whatever. You you take it wherever you want.
Kunal Mehta (20:38)
I think two years back I would have said simplifier. Because coming from a CPG world, I I was my own litmus test. I would I would try and un you know, there's these industries, there's a lot of science and technical knowledge, but my my litmus test was that how can I simplify the science, how can I simplify the complexity and then take it out there? So I would probably call my my role the simplifier.
Jess Gaedeke (20:59)
And today, is it different today?
Kunal Mehta (21:01)
Yeah, today actually we I I like to call myself the voice of the company. So the voice. We we we kind of take I mean as it's quite obvious, but we take to the world externally what we're doing internally. So it's the voice.
Jess Gaedeke (21:14)
Yeah. Good one. I li I really like those phrases. They're nice end posts. and so finally as we wrap up today, Kunal, what keeps you inspired at work?
Kunal Mehta (21:21)
You know, we we have a purpose line which I also use sometimes when I need to explain to someone about animal nutrition and health, without getting into the complexity and science. This this one single line is what is so powerful and it's also a great way to explain. So we our purpose is feeding the planet without costing the earth. And what that means is that we want to provide food on the table, food on the plate.
And the population is rising and we need to make sure that we can provide for that rising population. But the second line is as powerful without costing the earth because we have to respect and take care of the planet. And and therefore this one single line is what inspires me and what I use to also explain who we are and what we do.
Jess Gaedeke (21:59)
Well, I think that was a nice arc to the story because you basically concluded with a very foundational brand building consistency. So I I I love that you sort of gave us your lesson slyly there at the end. And what an inspiring vision and and brand ethos. So thank you so much for joining today, sharing your wisdom, sharing your perspective. It's been a really great conversation.
Kunal Mehta (22:19)
Thank you very much. I enjoyed the conversation as well. Thank you for having me.