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You've heard the book publishing podcasts that give you tips for selling a lot of books and the ones that only interview world-famous authors. Now it's time for a book publishing show that reveals what actually goes on behind the cover.
Hosted by New York Times bestselling author Anna David, Behind the Book Cover features interviews with traditionally published authors, independently published entrepreneurs who have used their books too seven figures to their bottom line to build their businesses and more.
Anna David has had books published by HarperCollins and Simon & Schuster and is the founder of Legacy Launch Pad, David is the founder of Legacy Launch Pad Publishing, a boutique, founder-led hybrid book publisher that helps entrepreneurs turn expertise into authority-building books. In other words, she knows both sides—and isn't afraid to share it.
Come find out what traditional publishers don't want you to know.
John Levey
Wed, Oct 15, 2025 5:56PM 31:40
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
John Frank Levy, Emmy award, casting director, podcast, book launch, creativity, acting classes,
theater director, collaboration, community, Instagram followers, book sales, creative journey, Burbank,
publishing.
SPEAKERS
Speaker 1, Speaker 2, Speaker 3
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Speaker 1 00:00
Welcome to the show where writers fill the tea process and their therapy. We'll talk about the
money.
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Speaker 2 00:13
Hello and welcome to Behind the book cover with your host, Anna David. I am bringing you
interviews with authors, telling you about the past, present and future of publishing, what their
books have done for them and what their books have not done for them. Today, I have the
great John FRANK LEVY as my guest. He's a four time Emmy award winning casting director.
He's cast shows like China Beach, er, the West Wing. Shameless he has his own podcast, which
is the same name as his book, which is right for the role. So what was interesting about this is
he is somebody that we worked with a legacy Launchpad published his book a few years ago,
and I didn't know what had happened with it or him. Sometimes, when we work with clients,
we're such a small company that we're really it's there's some clients I get to know really well,
and other times other team members get to know but anyway, I never really got to know him
that well, and so I was thrilled to hear that this book has done so much for him in the time since
we published it. But what he gets into is how this book led to a podcast, how it led to him
making his debut as a director, a theater director, at the age of 78 and how it actually
transformed his life at a time when he kind of thought he was going to be wrapping it up. So
with that, I give you John FRANK LEVY. John it's lovely to see your face. And I was the thank you
for being here. I was thrilled, Trudy. I had no idea what was going on with your book, because
it's kind of like if you know, you raise a child and they go off and never speak to you again.
Sometimes that happens with our books. And I was so thrilled when she said, Oh my God, John
is doing so much of it with it. So tell me what's happened since the book came out.
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Speaker 3 02:06
Well, you know, the book really started sort of a cottage industry of right for the role, which is
the title of the book, of course. And it came at a perfect time for me, as I was slowing down on
my casting career, but still really wanting to be, continue to be a creative person. That's been
my the energy source of my life is creativity, and I was kind of ready to let go of the casting
work, as the industry is changing and it got to be less and less fun, so I but, but the book gave
me an opportunity to talk to people on podcasts, but also to go into acting classes here in Los
Angeles and actually around the country and around The world, and talk to acting teachers and
acting students about my experiences, and then that led to a podcast called right for the role.
The podcast, we did a Trudy, who is my invaluable partner, Trudy Roth. We did a season of six
episodes with Noah Wiley and Eric LaSalle from er days and Shinola Hampton from shameless
days, and my dear friend Tim Bagley, who I don't think is related to your previous guest, but is
a wonderful actor and a very soulful and insightful person. Also the wonderful Sasha Alexander
from Rosalie and Isles days, who is also a most interesting woman to talk to. And finally, the the
director, actor, writer, producer, Dennis Dugan, who I directed in a play in God 1980 or 81 it's
also led me back to the theater, which is where I first started to live. And I'm actually going to
be directing a reading of a prize winning play in New York City with a fabulous cast that's
coming together in early December here in my dotage, I'm making My New York theater
premiere. So the book was like spring loaded with opportunity for continued creativity, growth,
change and development and and continued community and collaboration, which are important
themes in the book and things. I care a great deal about and enjoyed so much during my long
career in television.
Speaker 2 05:07
And was that part of the plan? Did you figure it out as you went?
Speaker 3 05:11
There really was no plan. I got introduced to Trudy, and I did what I did in casting for all those
years, I fell in love and then behaved myself, and Trudy asked, you know, we were interviewing
for the source material of the book during the pandemic. And so at first, we did it like this on
Zoom, and then we did it at an eight foot table in my backyard, where she sat at one end and I
sat at the other, and she just asked me questions and talked to me. And pretty much every
time we met, she said, you know, your stories are great and you're funny and smart, but you
got to make it more personal. And I kept saying, Oh, I'm kind of a private guy, and I don't really
want to do that. And she kept saying, well, otherwise, there's no point in doing this. So I
relented and made it more personal. Eventually, my ex wife, the mother of my children, read
the was one of the first people to read the book, and she said, God, John, you had a great
career, and you loved what you did, and but why'd you have to talk about our marriage so
much?
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Speaker 2 06:22
Well, so, so it was Trudy's idea that you would do the book. It was your idea, right? I mean, how
did this all coalesce and come together?
Speaker 3 06:33
A mutual friend of Trudy and mine, who's an acting teacher here in town, who I've known for
many, many years, I did her podcast, which I think is a limited podcast to mostly her student or
a group, and at the end of it, she said, You should write a book. And I have now said this a few
times on podcasts, but I think I sang for the first time in my life, because I am seeing Johnny.
One note was written for me, but if you ask me if I should write a book, I might have told you
you were one stupid snook. But I met Trudy pretty reluctantly, and she had done some
research about me, and she made me feel like there was a book that would be valuable to
readers and to people and and a great experience for me. And she turned out to be right, as
she often does.
Speaker 2 07:33
I love this story. So, so, so this person says this on a podcast, you are introduced to Trudy. You
guys are doing covid interviews. What was the process like? I mean, you had to talk about
personal things. Did you enjoy the process? Well,
Speaker 3 07:49
it was hard because I am primarily a kind of a quiet and introverted I mean, that's people will
laugh when they hear me say, I'm introverted because I'm I'm a combination of introverted and
extroverted that given different circumstances, different aspects of me come out, but I don't
often like to reveal my secrets to People I don't know, and so that was hard and but it was
really fun, because Trudy asked me great questions and elicited memories that I had forgotten.
She gave me a book about the first day we met, called How to write about yourself, I think
something like that about a memoirist, and that was very interesting, and I just trusted her.
And when you have trust and you can, you can collaborate, and you can bring out the best in
each other. And that happened, and it happened organically, which is a 60s word. I'm a 60s
guy, but it's sort of a word I hate, but, but it really did. It just evolved very naturally that we
seem to know each other as if we had known each other and been friends for decades and
decades, although she's quite a bit younger than I am. So that would would only be possible in
this decade, not in previous ones,
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Speaker 2 09:24
time machines. Time machines. Yeah, so and so you so. You said you had, you didn't really
have a plan. You just sort of were going off of somebody said this. It's felt right, you know, the
organically, it's all happening. And you did have a party. I remember because you invited me,
but I couldn't go because I was in Greece, because I'm that glamorous, but you had a party.
What so? So tell me what the plan was, and you got, you know, you discovered some huge
people, and how fascinating and great that Noah Wiley has come back to be the biggest star
ever. You know, you're the guy who. Found him, right?
Speaker 3 10:00
Well, you know, we find nobody in casting does anything by themselves. So casting directors
who say I discovered so and so, or I launched so and so are, to my mind, sort of full of shit. You
know, the great thing about working in television and working in casting is that it fed right into
my stuff about collaboration and community, and that evolved into, really the theme of the
book that that you know, not everybody can be number one on the call sheet. Not everybody
can be the quarterback on the football team or the star of whatever event, or, you know, a
community you're part of. And that goes back to my days in the theater too. You know that
whole mentality of, let's, let's put on a play. You sweep the floor, you do the lighting, you do the
costuming, you go get lunch, and I'll read the poems, you know, and that's my 60s orientation. I
was part of a community of people, sort of commune as a 21 234, year old. So all of that just
kind of emerged as the theme.
Speaker 2 11:23
And so do you have this party and you get these people to did they promote it? Did they put it
on social media? How did you do that?
Speaker 3 11:32
I guess you're referring to the book signing thing that I did at at the kind of historically
important Smoke House Restaurant in Burbank. And you know, we just the two women who
worked for me in casting, Kim Wong and Tony tam Eddy, which is really fun to say, they were
there with copies of the book, and people I've known from various walks of my life, personal
friends and members of writing staffs and directors and writers and actors and new people who
had heard about the book came and a lot of them bought the book and I signed them and and
then the smokehouse did really well that day. Everybody went to the bar and had a drink or
two, and it was really fun. We had it. We had a great time.
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Speaker 2 12:27
book?
But so how did you get the word out? Aside from that, how did you tell people that you had this
Speaker 3 12:32
Well, I guess I was just beginning to be on Instagram, and I also went through both my personal
and professional email. You know, whatever you call it, that the list of all of the people's emails
you once had contacts, I guess. And I did an email to a couple of 100 people, and probably over
100 people showed up.
Speaker 2 13:01
But then how did Trudy has told me the book continues to sell all the time. How is the word
getting out?
Speaker 3 13:09
Well, I now, despite the fact that I revealed to you at the very beginning that I'm a Luddite of
the first order, I now have almost 5000 followers on Instagram, and imagine I'll cross that
threshold in the next couple of weeks. And Instagram has been remarkable. And every time
anything happens with the book, we post something about it, and it generates, you know, it
does what it does. The Instagram is quite remarkable, and it's a whole new world for me. I'm
not really a self promoter, but I have enjoyed sharing the success of the book. And you know,
my longtime partner, Karen cease checks the book sales for me on Amazon and on the you
know. And the book is available autographed copies at the Barnes and Noble in Studio City. And
I go in and sign it. Every time they sell three, I go in and sign three more. And it was, it was in
the window for a while. That was a total gas
Speaker 2 14:25
that's cool. How did that did you go in there and ask them? How did that happen?
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Speaker 3 14:29
Well, you know, I'm a big reader, so I think during the pandemic, the one place beside my
longtime partner, Karen's house, that I went to was the Barnes and Noble in Studio City, and,
you know, in a mask. I think they got used to me, so they knew I wasn't coming to rob them.
But I, you know, I would buy two or three books a week, and and then when the book came out,
I went in and talked to the manager and said, You know, I'm not just the custom. Or I'm an
author, and she said, Let's order some and, and she did, and it's sold, you know, not a giant
amount of books, but it's, it's, it's been remarkable, the legs that the book has. And, you know,
primarily, I think the audience is the young actors, but it also, I think, speaks to, you know,
people in Pivot moments in their life, and how do you go on and maintain your creativity when
the when your daily life is changing? And I think it's reached out to people in that way as well.
And I think, you know, other members of the community, and also people who loved er, people
who loved the West Wing, people who loved shameless and animal kingdom. And you know,
Southland and China beach. And, you know, I happen to be incredibly lucky, and then I did my
job in these iconic television shows. And people love television,
Speaker 2 16:16
and do people treat you differently now that you're an author, did you, I mean, you were
already terribly respected in your field, but did you, is it a different thing when you're an
author?
Speaker 3 16:28
I suppose it is, you know. I mean, I think my friends are kind of impressed that, that I, that I did
it and, and I think, you know, I don't know if you remember, but my longtime boss and creative
collaborator, John Wells, wrote a introduction to the book, the forward to the book that I can still
barely Read. You know, without getting emotional. The wonderful thing about the book for me
is that it made me realize that I had impact. You know, in my podcast interview with Noah, you
know, I tried to accentuate the idea that we were part of a creative community, and that we
were collaborators, and that we were people who had worked together, and he kind of impishly
said, Well, I didn't cast you. So, you know, I got to feel I never was looking for it. Attention. I got
a lot more attention than I ever thought I would as a casting director awards and accolades and
all that kind of stuff. But more importantly, people said I impacted their lives, the actors who we
hired, and the audiences that watched the content that we created together,
Speaker 2 18:00
and you mean, it was the book gave them the opportunity to sort of tell you that you didn't
know that well.
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Speaker 3 18:06
I mean, I it so wasn't important to me. You know, you just eat the meal that's served and and
then suddenly you're 38 years into it, and your house has some statues in it, and people have
expressed their gratitude over the years, but but a collective kind of resounding noise
happened. It was like, Hey, John, thanks you. You changed my life, and I'm glad you did.
Speaker 2 18:43
And so how was the book the springboard for the podcast and the going to the acting schools?
We just walked me through how that happened.
Speaker 3 18:51
Well, you know, I know a lot of the acting teachers in town because I've been a guest at their
schools over the years, or just because they know who I am and and so I reached out to them,
and they said, Yeah, we'd love to have you come in and Margie Haber and Deshaun. Hell, I've
just lost his last name for the first time in my life, but it'll come to me in a moment, you know,
and all of the eight or 10 different acting schools in town, and they invited me to come, and we
sold books, and we talked about my experiences, and that was just an out, an outgrowth of of
the book, and a way to promote the book and sell the Book. And then the podcast really was
something I wanted to do for a while. And, you know, I mean, I think the best thing about the
podcast is that I realized again, that I have access to important members of the creative
community. Television. And, God, the Dennis Dugan episode, he tells some of the funniest
goddamn stories I've ever heard. And and he and they're all about hutzpah and about just kind
of, he said at one point, if you want to wait, you'll be a waiter. And you know that, you know,
and we, those of us who made something happen in our lives and in our professional lives, we
did it with forward thrust and kind of, you know, without being rude and unpleasant or
inappropriate, get the hell out of my way. I have something to do.
Speaker 2 20:45
But, and so, but, but what was the How did this go from book to podcast? You just sort of the
book made you go, Oh, God. I know a lot of people. I should be interviewing them. Is that
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Speaker 3 20:55
what happened? And also, I wanted to, I wanted it not to be like another talk show where the
people I was interviewing were kind of pimping their most recent project and and that kind of
stuff I really wanted to talk like the book does about, you know, what, what got in your way on
the way, and what did you how did you overcome it? And what were some of the things where
the doors opened wide fast? And how did that happen? And how did your dream of life and
creative in a creative endeavor start? And you know, were there other people in your family or
your life who had a creative life and gave you the impetus to have one? You know, it was, it
was just, I wanted to talk with people about their journey, and talk about journeys and and talk
about, you know, how you can enhance your opportunities by doing certain I heard I the tail
end of your previous interview. And you know, I'm a great believer that creative people should
be in therapy. I'm a great believer that creative people should be chronicling their experiences,
you know, in a written form or whatever form makes the most sense to them. I think we have to
be creative people, especially. But everybody would benefit from being on a journey of self
actualization, self realization, being, you know, being deliberate and trying, you know, steering
the boat and and, you know, in order to steer the boat, you got to know what makes the boat
go and and we each are on a journey of sort of growth and change, and to the extent that we
can embrace that, I think we'll be better mothers and fathers and sisters and brothers and Sons
and Daughters and lovers and, you know, co workers and all of that. And for me, that's the
goal. I want to keep getting further in touch with myself, so that I can be more intimately in
touch with you.
23:18
And the book really helped you do that?
23:20
Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 2 23:24
And so and so. Then you said it, this is somehow morphed into you making a debut in New York
as a director. How is this all connected?
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Speaker 3 23:33
Well, a young woman who I had hired as an actress on a couple of occasions, and who had
done, actually a workshop of a new play written by a friend of mine from college. Wrote a
wonderful Jewish family play that won the Jewish play project in New York's playwriting contest.
And the one of the prizes that she got was that they would fund a workshop here in Los
Angeles. And I suggested that we approach the road Theater, which is a wonderful equity
waiver company here in town that specializes in new plays. And I got attached to direct the
workshop for to Lisa Friedman and her wonderful play. And she combines talent with ambition,
and she wanted to do a play and play reading workshop of the play in New York, and she asked
me to cast it and direct it, and so we've been working on it. I sent it to Julianna Margulies, who
has agreed to play the female lead, the mother, and Polly Draper is going to do it, and a bunch
of young people who are part of the New York theater scene. I sent it just. The other day to Josh
Molina to see if he wanted to read the father, but he lives here in LA and won't be available. But
he wrote back and said, I don't even need to read it. I do it just to work with you, John, and
what a wonderful cast you've put together. So that, you know, I think Spielberg said that
directing is at least, I don't know what percentage number he said, 60% casting. And so I've
done almost all of my work already.
Speaker 2 25:28
So is there anything else about about how the book kind of gave you a new life? I mean, it
sounds to me like that's what happened.
Speaker 3 25:40
It gave me an old life. It gave me a renewed creativity, and when some people might beginning
to fade out a little bit, I am connected to my five year old self and my 12 year old self, and my
21 year old self, and my 35 year old self, and all the way up to my present 78 year old self, and
all those Johnnies are coming together to make this chapter into Maybe one of the most
fulfilling and exciting chapters yet. Wow.
26:24
And you don't think that would have happened without the book,
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Speaker 3 26:26
absolutely not. I might have started to downshift and diminish. And you know, the world,
especially show business, at a certain point, they kind of kick you to the curb. And some of that
has to do with age, although I'm entirely capable of doing my job today, and that was beginning
to happen, you know, during the days before, you know, inclusion and all of that was the
watchword. I started to be less desirable to people who cared about that. You know, projects
that involved women, like China Beach was primarily about women. I wouldn't get those jobs
today. If there were a lot of characters of color, the studios in the network would insist upon a
casting director of color, and I have. I don't think that's wrong by any means. I rather think
that's has its but, but I I can empathize with anybody and and as a result, I can cast anybody
Speaker 2 27:50
Right, right. Well, that's one of the more beautiful things. I haven't ever had someone, you
know, we've done about 60 books. I have never had someone say this sort of gave me a, I don't
know what you said it better than I'm just going to sum it up, but like a new lease on life, when
I thought I was wrapping up, that is a incredible, incredible thing.
Speaker 3 28:11
Yeah, well, it's a glorious thing. And it's, it's a wonderful place to be, because it gives you
worth, and it gives you value, and then you can go about, you know, I just became a
grandfather for the first time. I feel right for that role, and that's going to be an exciting part of
my life. And the book is actually helping me feel right for that role. It's making me feel right for
a wide variety of roles. And I think, I hope that the point of the book is beyond that journey to
find the roles you're right for. Obviously, it's a kind of reference to actors wish to be right for
every role. But really, the story of the book and the story of my creativity in my life is searching
for the roles that I was right for so that I could be my best self.
Speaker 2 29:09
I love it. Well, if people want to find you, you're over there on the Instagram. You also have a
podcast called right for the role you listening. You are a podcast listener. So, so any other ways
that people should reach out to you?
Speaker 3 29:26
Well, you know, they can go to, I have a website which is right for the role.com, yeah, and, and
the email and, and the Instagram, those are the places I am that and local restaurants and bar
and grills and smoke house.
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Speaker 2 29:47
You know, I'm now a Burbank resident. So
Speaker 3 29:50
we're neighbors. You live in Burbank? I do. I'm in Burbank right now,
Speaker 2 29:55
as am I I'm obsessed. I mean, I joined the Burbank Chamber of Commerce. I am like, I'm getting
into it. Listeners, you don't need to
30:03
hear fantastic. I'm
Speaker 2 30:04
obsessed. Why didn't you tell me this?
Speaker 3 30:08
You know, one of the reasons I love Burbank so much is that I got a fabulous gift from Michael
Crichton and Steven Spielberg and John Wells of a bunch of profit participation in ER, and I
bought the little house across the street from my house, and my mom lived in it for the last
seven Oh, no, I guess it was just three and a half or four years. And I kept saying to her, we live
in Burbank, mom, and if you have problems, the firemen and the ambulance and the cops will
be here in one minute, if we lived in Los Angeles, I'm sad to sad to say you'd be dead five times
already.
Speaker 2 30:48
Seriously, I know that. I mean, I could just talk about this forever. When I lived in Hollywood, I
called the police and said there is a man outside my house. They said, we'll be right there. I'm
still waiting. That was 10 years ago, and, oh my god, Burbank, we're obsessed. Okay, you guys,
thank you so much for listening, John, thank you so much for doing this.
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Speaker 3 31:05
Oh, my pleasure. Anna, and thank you. You're so welcome.
Speaker 2 31:11
Thanks for listening to behind the book cover. If you loved it, I hope you'll consider liking and
subscribing, because it helps more people find the show and look. You can like and subscribe
even if you only liked and didn't love it, but if you hated it, you can skip the review. Or who am
I kidding? I'll take one from you too.
Speaker 1 31:27
We'll talk about the money, or the lack there of the research rabbit hole behind the book cover.
Let's skip with asking the questions that you've always been.