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In Ecclesiastes 3:11, we read that God makes everything beautiful in its time. It is comforting to know that nothing is wasted in God's economy, but all of it will be used for our good and His glory. You're invited to join us for poignant conversations and compelling interviews centered on believing for His beauty in every season.
Shannon (00:01.137)
Well, hey, Jeannie, welcome to the Everything Made Beautiful podcast. I'm so excited that you're here. Thank you for doing this.
Jeannie (00:08.613)
I'm so excited to join you. Thank you, Shannon.
Shannon (00:11.794)
I remember when we met, I don't know if you remember this, but I remember this was pre COVID. So it's been like over four years ago. We were at an event at Church of the City and you were emceeing. And I was the, you know, person at the church that was in charge of the event. And I just remember thinking.
Jeannie (00:25.646)
Yes.
Jeannie (00:30.702)
Yes.
Shannon (00:39.154)
What a delight she is. I want to know more. But that was the first time we met. Do you remember that event? That was such a special night.
Jeannie (00:43.918)
Thank you.
I do remember that event. That was a really special night. And I'm just so grateful for our friendship that has developed despite us not living in the same city and discovering that we have all these mutual friends. And it's, it's, you are a pleasure. It's, I'm so happy to join you today.
Shannon (00:53.234)
Yes.
Shannon (00:58.066)
Yes.
Well, thank you. Well, I, you know, when we started the podcast, I just prayed and I was like, Lord, I want to have conversations with people who understand and grasp this really, frankly, challenging theology of God's sovereignty and the fact that even in the things that feel uncomfortable or tragic,
or unexpected or painful for us there is a way that and only God can do it that he can turn those hard things into beautiful things in in their time and in his time. And so your name kept coming to mind. I've already shared your intro with everybody but you've written so many wonderful books and Bible studies and have a new Bible study coming out that I can't wait for you to tell us about but
I just would love for people to hear your heart and kind of hear where it all began. Like, how did you grow up? Like, take us back to the beginning of Jeannie and how did you arrive where you are?
Jeannie (02:06.254)
Yeah, all right. I was born, no, I'm kidding. We won't go that far back. I am an accidental writer, so I'll tell you that story. I was raised as a preacher's kid in South Florida. My daddy was the pastor of a Presbyterian Charismatic Church, so try to make sense of that, okay? All right? And I loved
Shannon (02:12.083)
Hehehehehe
okay.
Jeannie (02:35.47)
being a preacher's kid. I know not everybody can say that, but I really loved it. Now, an important part of that story is that I have two sisters who are 11 and 12 years older than me.
And my dad had to learn the hard way through my sisters that you have to make a choice about who comes first, right? So they had gone through some hard things for my mom and dad to learn that how do you balance family and church family and the responsibilities that come with leading a church and the responsibilities that come with leading a family? But I am really grateful because my dad was willing to learn those things and be humbled by some of those.
Shannon (02:55.733)
Mm.
Jeannie (03:17.536)
things and so I had a really beautiful experience growing up in the church and I very much attribute my love for Jesus and my love for scripture to my parents and to the church I grew up in. So I'm just really grateful for that. It was a grace -filled home. Fun fact, my dad was really good friends with Brennan Manning.
Shannon (03:36.726)
wow!
Jeannie (03:37.454)
I know, isn't that fun? And we have a son named Brennan. He's one of my favorite authors. But so I was raised as a preacher's kid and I knew from a very young age that I wanted to be an adoption social worker. And that is what I thought I would do for my whole life. I really, I felt this calling on my life around 13 years old when one of my sisters had an unplanned pregnancy and placed that baby for adoption. And that
Shannon (03:39.8)
Yeah.
Jeannie (04:07.278)
impacted me in a significant way. And so I learned at a very young age about the beauty of unborn life. And I learned about the very hard and heartbreaking, but redeeming option of adoption. And so that's what I thought I would do forever. And so I had that goal in mind. I got a master's in social work. I went to Auburn University and got a master's in social work and began working in the adoption field. And that's what I did for about 14 years. I counseled birth moms. I did home studies.
for prospective adoptive families and then I had this really cool opportunity to travel the country for 40 for three years to 48 states doing adoption advocacy and training work and Mike and I got married and we had very soon thereafter three boys within five years and it was right around when our the youngest of the three was around one and
I was struggling so deeply to be the kind of mom that I thought I was going to be.
Shannon (05:08.663)
Hmm.
Jeannie (05:15.694)
I thought I was I was equipped for this. I was a preacher's kid. I had great examples in my parents. Why is this so hard and why am I so bad at it? Right. I mean, I just the shame was so real. And that was a significant time in my life because I was just journaling and reading and studying scripture and reading all the books I could get my hands on. And it was in that time that I
Shannon (05:32.343)
Yeah.
Jeannie (05:45.6)
I felt the Lord very clearly, and I won't get into all the examples because it would take up all of our time, but very clearly leading me to start writing about what he was teaching me about his love for me as a mom who felt like she was always failing him. I didn't just feel like I was failing my kids. I felt like I was failing him because I could not be a perfect mom. I had set a very, very, very high bar for myself and I could not get over that bar.
Shannon (05:51.895)
Hehehehe
Shannon (06:02.679)
Mm.
Jeannie (06:15.504)
So it was really stealing all of the joy that we're supposed to have as moms, even when it's hard. Yeah.
Shannon (06:19.127)
Yeah.
I think so many people are resonating with what you're saying right now. And it's funny because would you say, I mean, you've already said you set that bar, but based on what? Like just what you thought a perfect mom should be like. And I think we do that to ourselves. It's like, nobody's necessarily given us a list, but we're still trying to check it off.
Jeannie (06:39.47)
I'm.
Yeah, I think we're comparing ourselves to what we see other moms doing in being in public versus the struggles they have at home. I think that...
us talking about grace and parenting is a new thing in the last 10, 12, 15 years. And I think that there was, dare I say it, even a lot of pressure in the church. And we have misapplied Bible verses to read as though God has promised us certain outcomes if we put in certain things. And all of that was just like this perfect storm of comparison and the pressure from the world and the pressure from what I thought scripture said. And it was just
Shannon (07:01.143)
Yeah.
Shannon (07:09.079)
Yeah.
Shannon (07:19.671)
Yeah.
Jeannie (07:26.272)
this perfect storm that that I could no longer take the pressure. I could no longer take the the the just that burden of perfection and so I just felt the Lord leading me to start. I was in the cool thing as I was doing a Bible study at the time called Breaking Free by Beth Moore.
Shannon (07:43.959)
Mm -hmm. I'm familiar.
Jeannie (07:46.446)
Right? And the Lord used that very powerfully in my life, but I was journaling and writing and praying and time after time, I felt the Lord leading me to write and I couldn't shake it and it didn't make any sense to me. None. I was like, Lord, you're the one who put this passion for adoption on my life. Why would you tell me to push pause on that to do something I have no training in, really no desire to do other than I love journaling. It helps me make sense of how I feel and I love words, but I had no
desire to be a writer that was not on my roadmap, so to speak. And I have my oldest sister is a prolific author. She writes women's fiction and historical fiction. And I called her. It's a really profound moment. Talk about the power of our words and people's lives. I called my sister and I said, hey, Patty, I know you're the author and I know I'm the adoption social worker.
but I can't shake this sense that I'm supposed to be writing. And she said, Jeannie, I have been waiting for you to figure that out.
Shannon (08:51.959)
What? Yeah, we need more people to say things like that to us.
Jeannie (08:53.678)
Right?
Right?
the power of our words. Like if my sister had said, you're out of your mind. You have any idea what it takes? Because she could have said that. And I would have been like, you're right. That's crazy. Back to adoption social work, right? And it made no sense. I had three kids under five at home. Like who has the time to learn whatever. But I will tell you, and I believe this with everything in me, when you know that there is something in your heart, in your soul that is burning, like you know the Lord put it there. Like it's not like maybe he did
Shannon (09:08.503)
Yeah. Yeah.
Jeannie (09:27.552)
but like I know this is from you. There have been too many coincidences that tell me this is from you. He is so faithful. Like he's so ready to show off the miraculous things that he will do if you are willing to trust him with something that makes absolutely no sense at all. No sense.
Shannon (09:47.703)
Yeah, so good.
Jeannie (09:48.494)
And so I started to write, and the rest is history. The Lord opened doors, and I entered writing contests that I didn't win, but that's because the Lord had a contract coming for me from Zondervan that made no sense.
Shannon (10:00.023)
Wow.
Jeannie (10:01.902)
So there were closed doors, but the Lord had other doors He wanted me to walk through. And I just kept saying, all right, Lord, I'm going to trust you. I'm going to keep going with this if it's you. And here we are. I think my fourth book is about to come out in two Bible studies. And now I can't imagine doing anything else. But I love it. And I'm so honored that I get to write about the things that the Lord has used to change my life and draw me deeper into His love and His grace. So that's how it started.
Shannon (10:09.815)
Yeah.
Shannon (10:27.927)
Well, and that's what is most authentic and most helpful to people is for people to write and teach from a place of authenticity and lived experience versus just being a good writer or a good teacher, but not having lived what you're writing and teaching. So yeah.
Jeannie (10:46.734)
Yes, I don't have that gift. I admire people who can. I can't. It has to have profoundly impacted me for me to feel like I have anything worth sharing.
Shannon (10:58.135)
That's so good. Well, tell everyone about mom set free. Because when I came across that, you and I did a podcast interview during COVID. And we released it to parents in our church and women. But talk about mom set free because that has been such a transformative and profound impact on people. Just the whole principle of it. You're way better at telling it than me, but I would love for you to talk about it.
Hehehehe
Jeannie (11:27.086)
Yeah.
So Mom Set Free was my second book and it was the first one was about parenting, knowing God's grace for ourselves as moms so that we're able to give grace to our kids, right? Because we can't give what we haven't received and that's what the Lord taught me to receive his grace so that I could be a giver of grace to my kids because I was putting that same burden of perfection on them and that's not good either. Mom Set Free was kind of, it was the journey really because now it was like, okay, what does it look like to live in our freedom in Christ?
Shannon (11:49.591)
Yeah.
Jeannie (11:57.968)
The truth is a lot of people assume that mom set free is just for moms with littles. But as you and I have talked about in the past, the older they get, the more we need to know our freedom because we play a very significant role in our kids' lives. Very significant.
but God is sovereign over their lives. We are significant, but he is sovereign. And I love that you opened talking about his sovereignty. And I'm telling you that changed my life. It changed how I parent. I am significant, but I am not sovereign. I do not control the outcome. So you can parent in this unbelievable freedom and rest in Christ saying, Lord, every time I call them my kids, I'm gonna reframe that and call them your kids because they believe.
Shannon (12:17.591)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.
So good.
Shannon (12:30.711)
Mm.
Jeannie (12:45.6)
to you and you have loaned them to me and I am going to obey you Lord in raising them up in the knowledge and the love of you. That is the role that I will play but I do not control the outcome and to want to control the outcome which I often do still knowing everything I know to want to control the outcome is to say to the Lord I know better than you and that convicts me every time.
Shannon (13:11.607)
Mm.
Yeah.
Jeannie (13:15.886)
I want to control this Lord." And he's like, really? Because you see the whole picture. You see what I'm doing. You see how I'm going to redeem this thing that your son is having to walk through right now. And I'm going to use that shape him and humble him and know me in a way that he wouldn't if everything was fine. So, man, I still get fired up talking about it. And I wrote that almost six or seven years ago because I need it more than ever with a child who's launched from college, one in college,
two in high school and one in third grade. It's like, Lord, I, it's all about trusting Him. And so we have, we play this significant role, but we have to trust in the sovereignty of God over our kids' lives. And if we can do that, we will parent with so much freedom. I mean, it sounds so cliche, but I'm telling you where, where worry controls us, it will turn into wonder, right? Instead of, I'm so worried about what's happening. I can go, Lord, I am going to live in
hopeful expectation of your faithfulness to my children.
Yeah, I need it more than ever and I am living it out. So we walk through the pressure, the book walks through the pressures that moms are under, the pressure to control our children's future, right? We have to do all the right things from kindergarten on to make sure that they launch into really successful circumstances or the pressure to ensure that Christ -like character is produced in their lives, right? We think it's called the fruit of the mother. It's not called the fruit of the mother. It's called the fruit of the spirit, right?
Shannon (14:48.16)
you
Jeannie (14:51.52)
to lead them to salvation. It's the Holy Spirit who opens the eyes of their heart to the love of Jesus. We get to plant seeds, but we don't get to produce fruit. So I walk through all of these pressures that Christian moms in particular feel, oftentimes because we have misunderstood or misapplied scripture, and hopefully help them know their freedom in Christ so that we really can take these clenched fists, which I parent with, right?
and we can open them to say, Lord, I surrender them back to you. So that's really a mom set free. And I'm so, so grateful that so many moms have found freedom in Christ and a new path forward or a new way forward with their kids through it, because the Lord changed my life and he continues to use it to help me let go of things that I do not control.
Shannon (15:27.904)
Yeah.
Shannon (15:43.169)
Yeah.
Shannon (15:50.978)
And I love that you're saying it isn't just for moms of small kids, because we think about those as the really intense years. But you know, you and I both have kids who are older or have left the nest, as they say. And that's just a different kind of struggle for control. The details are different, but the proclivity for wanting to control and manage outcomes is the same.
Jeannie (16:08.526)
Yes.
Shannon (16:18.116)
So the surrender and the release and I love that we are significant, but we are not sovereign. So good. I, I know people are saying, what was it again? I'm going to to all of Jeannie's books, Bible studies, everything in the, show notes for this. So you'll, you'll want to have all of Jeannie's stuff. It is amazing. but, so I would love for you to tell us about your kids, start with the youngest and work your way up. And then I would love for you to talk to us about Haiti.
Jeannie (16:24.366)
Yeah.
Jeannie (16:28.686)
Thank you.
Jeannie (16:47.886)
Okay, so Finn is eight, he's going into third grade. Owen is 14, he's going into ninth grade. Brennan is 17, he's going to be a senior. Our son Cal is a rising sophomore at Auburn University, War Eagle.
Shannon (17:05.731)
Mm -hmm, mm -hmm, mm -hmm.
Jeannie (17:07.502)
and our son Andre, who joined our family from an orphanage in Haiti five years ago. He just graduated from Lipscomb University in Nashville and he has a degree in theology and he is about to take a really interesting, exciting job and so unbelievably proud of him. Yes, we have five boys and
Shannon (17:17.507)
Yeah.
Shannon (17:28.355)
Hmm.
Jeannie (17:32.206)
Like I said, Andre joined our family five years ago from a children's home in Haiti called Danita's Children's Home. It's a home we started traveling to probably nine years ago and we would visit, no, that's not true, seven years ago.
And we go every year except the last two years because of how dangerous it's become. But I met Andre on my very first trip there. And I really want to tell this story. I have to tell this story. I'm going to tell this story. OK. So really fast. So when I felt the Lord leading me to stop doing adoption work and to start writing, I made a deal with God. And I know we're not supposed to do that. So I say that. I'm joking when I say this, but I did say like, Lord,
Shannon (17:53.123)
Yeah.
Shannon (18:00.804)
Tell it, tell it.
Jeannie (18:16.686)
Promise me you'll bring me back to adoption work. Promise me I'll obey you, but please don't let this be the end. This is just in me, right? So the crazy story is my first book, Parenting the Whole Hearted Child, comes out.
A couple months after it comes out, I get this email through the submission form on my website. And it's this woman named Karis Hudson. And she says, hi, Jeannie, my name is Karis Hudson. I don't expect you to write back. I just felt compelled to reach out and tell you that I read your book, and I can't tell you what it meant to me. I grew up in Nashville. We're a similar age, and I am basically a mom to 100 kids. And I was just really moved by what you wrote. And I just wanted to say thank you. So of course, I wrote her back.
Shannon (18:36.26)
Mm.
Shannon (18:40.424)
Hehehehe
Jeannie (19:01.216)
And I was like, wait, who are you? Where are you? What's happening? I told her my history. We developed this friendship. Two years later, we took our whole family to Haiti because I had to meet these kids and meet her and understand how we could help. And it was supposed to be just my family, which at the time there was just five of us. And told some friends, we told some friends. And the next thing I know, we were taking a group of 25. So we get to Haiti and Danita, who runs the orphanage, said, I would love for you to speak to the women in the village.
Shannon (19:02.02)
Yeah. Yeah.
Shannon (19:15.652)
Yeah.
Jeannie (19:31.12)
if you could just share a little bit about God's grace. And I said, I don't feel like I'm qualified to do that. Like what they, they're suffering. I don't understand it. Like it doesn't feel fair that I would try to encourage them when I don't even begin to understand what they go through every day. And she said, Jeannie, do you need Jesus? I was like, so bad. I needed so bad. And she said, they need Jesus too.
And so I said yes, because how do you say no after that, right? And she said, well, you're going to need a translator. And I said, great. So the next day, she introduced me to a young man named Andre. And Andre was my translator. And so I met my son by sharing the gospel together. And he was supposed to leave three months later. He had an opportunity to go to a community college in Florida. His paperwork got lost in the visa office.
Shannon (20:01.156)
huh.
Shannon (20:14.692)
Wow.
Jeannie (20:23.886)
He didn't get to go. He lost the whole opportunity. So when we came back the next February, I said, why are you still here? And he said, I lost my opportunity. They lost my paperwork.
I have no sponsor family. I have no opportunity. I don't know what I'm going to do. And in that moment, in that moment, I knew, I knew, I was like, Lord, I see what you're doing. And
Shannon (20:47.942)
Yeah, you're holding up our end of your end of the deal.
Jeannie (20:50.638)
We held up his name in the deal, you're so good. And five months later, Andre's paperwork was processed and he was living in Connecticut and he was going to Norwalk Community College and he became a Cunyan. And so talk about redeeming things, right? Not only did the Lord redeem, there's so many stories of redemption here, making things beautiful in its time. Shannon, I mean, from Andre feeling like the Lord first, that he had been forsaken and forgotten to other people, they got to go. And he just felt like, I'm going to trust you, Lord.
Shannon (21:02.918)
Mm.
Shannon (21:09.382)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Jeannie (21:20.592)
going to pray and I'm just going to pray and I'm going to pray that you would bring me a new family and a new opportunity." And the Lord made that so beautiful in its time. So that's how that's how Haiti happened. So he joined our family five years ago and he did two years of community college here in Connecticut and then he transferred to Lipscomb. So and he recently started a foundation. We co -founded a foundation with him called the 509 Foundation, which creates opportunities for his classmates who are still in Haiti, have graduated and who
Shannon (21:25.959)
Yeah.
Shannon (21:30.599)
Yeah.
Jeannie (21:50.464)
who are longing for the same opportunity that Andre has been given. So we launched this foundation to help create opportunities and raise money so that they can pursue higher education and employment and entrepreneurship. And that has been really fun. We brought our first student over last fall. He's a freshman at Hope College in Michigan. And we have two more coming this fall. So, ma 'am.
Shannon (22:11.272)
This is amazing.
Jeannie (22:12.814)
The Lord does really, really, really fun stuff. If we will trust Him and we go on that adventure with Him, He does fun stuff.
Shannon (22:16.552)
Yeah. Yeah.
Shannon (22:22.376)
I love it. You know, you talked about specifically, especially in Andre's story of feeling forsaken, but little did he know what God was up to and his intent to make a really beautiful story. If you're willing, what would you say when you look back over your life and you think about
going. That did not seem like anything beautiful could come of it. But I've seen God make it beautiful. Like what comes to mind when you when I say that?
Jeannie (22:51.022)
Yes.
Jeannie (22:55.054)
several things, several things. But I think probably the most painful thing and the thing that caused me the most shame was a divorce when I was 25 years old. It was a marriage that only lasted 10 months. And it was very, very painful and very, very unexpected. And I came out of that.
Shannon (23:04.615)
Wow.
Shannon (23:15.847)
Hmm.
Jeannie (23:20.302)
so unbelievably ashamed of myself because I'm a preacher's kid. And I always said I would never ever under any circumstances ever get divorced. And so to now be a 25 year old woman who had who had already struggled with the performance mindset for the Lord, I really as much grace as my parents gave me, I was so so in this posture of just trying to prove to him that I was worthy of his love and pleasure and delight.
Shannon (23:20.468)
Hehehehe
Yeah.
Shannon (23:49.895)
Hmm.
Jeannie (23:50.208)
And I thought that I was mostly pulling that off, although I look back and know I wasn't even a little bit. You know, the longer I follow Jesus, the more in awe I am that He loves me and gave Himself for me, right? Because we understand that it's about the heart and not about the performance that we're trying to please Him with our good works and good behavior when the motive of our heart is off. And so...
That was a deeply painful time and just covered in shame, feeling like I had, I really, I honestly felt this way. I felt like the Lord had no use for me anymore. I really felt like what testimony do I now have? I have failed.
Shannon (24:24.711)
Mm.
Hehehehehe
Shannon (24:30.633)
Right. I've gone and done it now. Like this was the thing I was never supposed to do. Yeah.
Jeannie (24:33.966)
This is the thing. I was raised in the purity culture. You know, you pour all that into it, right? So there was so many layers of shame now. And I just deeply thought that the Lord didn't have much use for me anymore. Like, of course, I was still going to follow him and love him. But how would he ever use me now as somebody who got divorced after such a short, short time in her marriage from really tragic circumstances that I had no control over? And so
Shannon (24:37.48)
Mm -hmm.
Jeannie (25:03.502)
I lived with that shame and I carried that shame into when I met my husband Mike.
Shannon (25:09.608)
Mm.
Jeannie (25:09.71)
and we got married, but Mike was so filled with grace. I mean, he just was like, why would I ever care that that happened to you? Like, I love you. I don't like the shame didn't come from Mike. It came from my own, the stories and the and the condemnation and just, you know, the thoughts going through my own head. I was doing it to myself or the devil was doing it to me. However, you want to think about it. But he
He and I got married and then we got pregnant three months later. And so what I now know is that I carried that shame into my parenting.
And I was more determined, I talk about this, I think it's in parent -to -child, no, it's in mom set free. I was more determined than ever to make the Lord proud of me. Really, that was my goal. Like Lord, I'm gonna be an amazing mom and an amazing wife and I'm gonna make you proud of me again. I know I let you down, I know I ruined my story, I know you probably can't use me in any way that I would want you to use me now, but I'm gonna make you proud of me again. And so there was this immense pressure, going back to what we talked about earlier, to please the Lord and make him proud.
out of me by how I parented. And as we all know, parenting not only enlarges your heart, but it exposes all of your weaknesses, right? So anything I struggled with before, like being impatient, I mean, now I was just a jerk.
Shannon (26:25.769)
Yes.
Jeannie (26:33.134)
So like it just magnifies the things that you already struggle with and you become so unbelievably aware of your need for the Holy Spirit to do a whole house transformation in you, right? To really truly deeply transform you and pour His character through you. And so that's really something that the Lord has made so beautiful and it's time because when I got set free from that shame,
Shannon (26:44.745)
Yeah, yeah.
Shannon (26:56.681)
Hmm.
Jeannie (27:01.39)
It felt like new birth all over again. I really felt like I was born again all over. I mean, it was like it literally, and it was, it sounds so cliche, but the truth is it was 2 Corinthians, I had to write down, because I always forget the exact, 2 Corinthians 12, 9, right? I mean, his grace is.
Shannon (27:04.393)
Yeah.
Shannon (27:15.881)
Mm -hmm.
Yep, His grace is sufficient. Yes.
Jeannie (27:20.814)
His grace is sufficient. His grace is made perfect. His strength is made perfect in my weakness. And now I will boast. I love this part and we don't talk about it. And now I will boast about how much I need him. I will boast about it so that I can experience his power and his grace even more. I love to boast about how much I need Jesus because I am so.
Shannon (27:30.313)
Mm -hmm.
Yeah. Yeah.
Shannon (27:44.81)
Yeah.
Jeannie (27:45.39)
set free from needing to perform for Him. Like I have His delight and His pleasure and His acceptance because I have the perfection of Jesus covering me. And when we grasp that, we are able to live and therefore parent in a radically new way. And when I could look in the eyes of Jesus and truly believe that He loved me more than He had ever loved me, despite the fact that I had gotten divorced and disobeyed Him,
Shannon (27:48.49)
Hmm.
Jeannie (28:15.296)
obeyed what I thought was like the unforgivable thing. It changed my life. It instilled a love for him, such a deeper love for him because again, just I stopped performing for him. And when we can stop performing for him, there is a new level and depth of intimacy with him that is undeniable and un -
Shannon (28:17.834)
Mm -hmm.
Shannon (28:32.139)
Yeah, so good.
Jeannie (28:43.822)
And it can't be explained because we can't have intimacy with him when we are busy performing for him. I shouldn't say we can't, but there's a depth of intimacy that comes when we just get authentic and real with Jesus and lay it out before him and be vulnerable with him and allow him to fill us with his grace. And so, yeah, he made that beautiful in its time. And I don't know that I...
Shannon (29:08.074)
It's so good.
Yeah.
Jeannie (29:14.894)
It's humbled me a lot. Going through that has humbled me in so many ways. I think it showed me how self -righteous I was as well, I think, in a way that I didn't understand. And it has humbled me in a way that I don't think, I don't, few things probably would have. And so for that, I'm deeply grateful because it really, I had to stop thinking that he loved me because I was doing all the right things and checking all the right boxes.
Shannon (29:39.915)
Yeah, and I think for those who grew up the way you and I did, and I grew up also with the added legalism component. And so to your point, my parents were, you know, wonderful and there was grace there, but I went to a very legalistic Christian school. And and so things that aren't actually equated in the Bible were equated for me as though they were in the Bible. So skirt length and music.
type and dancing and alcohol and whatever you can possibly imagine. I had all of the legalistic experiences with that that almost always tend toward a self -righteous person as the result. But what would you say because I have felt everything you're saying. I have felt it not just in relation to my parenting but my marriage and just my personal walk with Christ.
Jeannie (30:22.99)
That's right. That's right.
Shannon (30:36.877)
What would you say to someone listening who is going, I love hearing that you've been set free. I love knowing that that is a possibility. I struggled to understand how it can be a possibility for me because I don't even know the next right step to take to begin figuring out how to be set free from it. Because I think for a lot of us, we were done the disservice of
the more performative you are, the holier you are. And that's just not true and not in scripture, but it takes a long time to undo that amount of, if I can call it spiritual brainwashing. Even if the motive was good, the outcome was the same, which is a generation of certainly women, but I think men as well who...
Jeannie (31:11.182)
That's right.
Shannon (31:33.933)
believe we're only as good as how long we've gone without doing something bad, which is 0 .6 seconds, you know? So what would you say just by way of encouragement for those who want to take a step to figuring out how to be set free from thought patterns and maybe even a theology that isn't rooted in the truth of scripture?
Jeannie (31:39.95)
Yes. Yes.
Jeannie (31:58.67)
Yeah, so I deeply, deeply, deeply believe in the power of the word of God. And it's where he set me free. And I believe it's where we most often get set free. I believe in the power of word and spirit. So we'll talk about both. But...
Shannon (32:12.876)
Yeah.
Jeannie (32:14.67)
One of the things I did in the back of Mom Set Free is I listed Bible verses for specific pressures that we as moms are struggling with. And so if you're feeling the pressure to perform for God, for Him to love you, there are four or five or six verses, and I would encourage you to open your Bible, and I would read those and marinate on those and invite the Spirit of God to make those
Shannon (32:33.42)
Hmm.
Jeannie (32:43.982)
real to you, to help you believe that this is true. Read the Word and invite the Spirit. Holy Spirit, help me believe what the Word of God says is true about me. There is so much power in that.
Shannon (32:47.244)
Yeah.
Shannon (32:52.492)
Yeah.
Jeannie (33:03.918)
Sometimes what helps me is also realizing that when I believe that I can add anything to the cross, what I am saying to my Savior is that what you did for me was not enough. What he did for me was enough. It was more than enough. And scripture...
Shannon (33:17.773)
So good.
Jeannie (33:27.054)
when read rightly is very clear that it is the perfection of Christ that covers us, that makes us beautiful and welcomed and beloved, and we cannot add anything to it.
On your best day, He loves you because you were covered in the righteousness of His Son. On your worst day, He loves you because you were covered in the righteousness of His Son. Now, does that mean He wants to leave you on your worst day? Like leave you there? No, no, no, no. Like we get, we think about grace as just the thing that freezes, but grace changes us. If we really understand what grace is, when we have that perspective of, of
Shannon (34:05.005)
Yeah.
Jeannie (34:11.598)
Amazing grace, how can it be that you my king would die for me right that Chris Tomlin so beautifully sings? That grace is empowering grace that is transforming grace that doesn't make you want to Stay in sin that doesn't make you want to keep turning away It makes you want to run to him when you know his arms are open It makes you want to run to him in repentance not run from him in shame And so grace is very empowering so I would
Shannon (34:16.206)
Yeah. Yeah.
Shannon (34:39.726)
Yeah.
Jeannie (34:41.552)
encourage people to start with the Word of God and invite the Spirit of God to help them believe and to welcome His work and to keep going back to it until you believe it. I mean, it's not always for me, it was in that one instant, but I had been studying breaking free. I had been in the Word and then there was this moment where the Lord just, the Holy Spirit opened my eyes to my acceptance.
Shannon (34:48.558)
Yeah.
Jeannie (35:06.478)
in God because of Jesus Christ. So we have to be in the Word of God, I think, if we want to experience freedom.
Shannon (35:08.942)
Yeah.
Shannon (35:13.713)
Yeah, so good. Thank you for that. I know you have a new Bible study coming out and I want you to tell us about it because I've heard a little bit from other people who know what it's about. But I would love for you to just tell us all. I think it comes out October 8th. Yes. Yes. So tell us what we can expect.
Jeannie (35:30.094)
Yes, yes, yes. So it's a 40 -day devotional called Closer to God and the subtitle is A 40 -day Pursuit of God's Personal Presence and I am so
excited about this devotional because again what the Lord taught me and showed me about the pursuit of holiness and the practice of repentance and the purpose of his life -giving call to obedience I can't wait for people to read it because we have so misunderstood
the purpose of the pursuit of holiness. And we have so misunderstood what repentance is, right? I mean, most times you say repentance and people see an angry guy in a street corner with a bullhorn and a sign, right? Or a pastor with a pointed finger telling you to do better, right? It goes back to the thing we just talked about. No, repentance is for refreshment, right? It's his kindness that leads us to repentance and it's the Holy Spirit that takes us there. And so if we can understand that the
Shannon (36:26.672)
Yeah, yeah.
Jeannie (36:40.16)
pursuit of holiness and the practice of repentance are these life -giving, freedom -bringing things that the Lord invites us into, then we get to enjoy more of God's presence. So the whole thing started with, I was having so much, I'd written a book about the Holy Spirit, so I wrote a book called Don't Miss Out, 30 Benefits to the Holy Spirit Presence, and that was profound for me because growing up in a charismatic Presbyterian church,
Shannon (36:52.752)
Yeah.
Shannon (36:58.804)
Yes.
Jeannie (37:05.55)
I was comfortable with the Holy Spirit, but I put him in a spiritual gifts box. And so I did not understand the significance of the Holy Spirit for daily life in Christ, right? So we have all of these Christians trying to follow Christ and live in the likeness of Christ without the power of Christ, right? So we have Jesus dropouts, or we have people who are just exhausted and unchanged because they're trying to follow Jesus on their own and they're trying to keep them happy.
Shannon (37:09.107)
Mm -hmm.
Shannon (37:22.067)
So good.
Shannon (37:29.331)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jeannie (37:33.678)
Right? So after that book came out, so many people, I had just had so many conversations, people really struggle to know God's presence, to experience Him. We know Him, but we don't really know Him. Right? Like the way Paul talks about Philippians 3, I want to know Christ and the power of His resurrection. And so
Shannon (37:44.211)
Yeah.
Shannon (37:53.267)
Mm -hmm.
Jeannie (37:56.782)
We have a lot of Christians who say, I don't know how to hear from him. I don't feel his withness. I know he's with me, I guess, but I don't enjoy God or experience God the way you're talking about. And I'm like, well, we have to change this. We have to change this because God's purpose for us is to know his personal presence.
Shannon (38:09.107)
Right.
Jeannie (38:19.822)
And His presence is fullness of joy and His presence is where we are changed, right? It's in the abiding that we are transformed and it's not something you get down the line when you do all the right things and follow them long enough. No, there's so many Christians who don't realize that God's personal presence takes up residence in them the very moment they put their trust in Jesus.
Shannon (38:24.182)
Yeah. Yeah.
Jeannie (38:42.286)
Right? Salvation and the Spirit, they're inseparable. They're a package deal. But so many of us don't know that. And so we're not experiencing intimacy with Christ, and we don't have relational depth with God because we don't know that He's living in us and that He wants to make Himself so incredibly real to us. But do we want that benefit without the pursuit of holiness and the practice of repentance?
Shannon (39:02.07)
Yeah.
Shannon (39:07.451)
Yeah. Yes.
Hmm.
Jeannie (39:12.398)
Right? These things go hand in hand, right? Separate them. If we grieve the Spirit of God, He doesn't leave, He's still with us, but the sense of His presence is diminished. We don't enjoy that relational intimacy and depth when we are resisting the Spirit or intentionally living in rebellion to God. And so if we can understand that,
Shannon (39:15.542)
Yes, cannot separate them.
Shannon (39:26.518)
Yeah.
Shannon (39:36.918)
Yeah.
Jeannie (39:40.27)
And then we can better understand what it means to pursue holiness, which is really just pursuing Jesus, right? Because Jesus says, be holy because I am holy. So we're just, we're just doing Jesus people. That's what it is. And then we're repenting every day when we fall down so he can pick us back up and refresh us and revive us and we can get back at it and we can experience his presence while we do it. So it was like, it's 40 days of questions, Shannon. So
Shannon (39:49.078)
Exactly.
Shannon (40:06.422)
Mm, mm. Yeah.
Jeannie (40:07.118)
That's what excites me. Like, what is intimacy with God? How can I have intimacy with God? What is holiness? What is repentance? What is the benefit of repentance? So it's just answering questions that I think a lot of us ask and would love to know the answer to. But ultimately, it's all about taking us into a deeper life with God.
so that you know his presence, whether you're in church on a Sunday morning or you're washing dishes on a Thursday night, because that is life. Knowing his presence is life. So that's October 8th, and I'm really excited about it. Closer to third. Yes. Yes.
Shannon (40:37.566)
Yeah. Yeah. Closer to God coming out October 8. So good. I think you're right though. I think if we're honest, if many of us are honest, we want kind of a tchotchke Jesus that we're like, look, I have Jesus. We don't want transformative Jesus that, you know,
Jeannie (40:59.598)
Okay.
Shannon (41:05.846)
And then I think we go, well, I have tchotchke Jesus. I don't know why I don't feel fulfilled. I don't know why I'm unable to weather hardship and storms and suffering. I don't know why many of these scriptures that promise X, Y, and Z when we are abiding in Christ don't seem true for me. And I think it's because we want the kind of Jesus that we can pick up and show off when we need to, but then we set over there when we don't. And he just won't do that. He won't be that.
Jeannie (41:34.19)
That's right. That's right. He loves us too much to honor our lukewarm Christianity. Yes. He loves us too much to honor our lukewarm Christianity. He just, he loves us too much and he knows what he has for us. And so, and it's not until we're willing to surrender and really submit that we will experience it. We think it's gonna, it's, you know, there's so many.
Shannon (41:35.862)
It's transformative Jesus. Yeah, yeah.
Yes, so good.
Yeah.
Jeannie (42:00.334)
reasons that we're unwilling to do that and yet everything we long for everything we long for is in Jesus it's all in him he literally is the answer to everything we long for and and yet we're resisting him because it feels like he's just asking for too much
Shannon (42:02.774)
Yeah.
Shannon (42:08.63)
Yes, he's the answer to everything we're seeking. Yes.
Yeah. Yeah.
Jeannie (42:23.182)
But if we just understand that what he is asking for is for our benefit and for our good and for his glory, we will walk in a freedom, not free of suffering. no. no. Right? He promises, yeah, no freedom of suffering here. But there will be a freedom of.
Shannon (42:23.222)
Mm -hmm.
Shannon (42:38.966)
No, no, no.
Shannon (42:43.574)
Yeah.
Jeannie (42:46.67)
of life and supernatural hope and joy and peace that supersedes our circumstances if we will trust him with all of us.
Shannon (42:56.889)
Yeah, so good. Thank you so much for your willingness to steward the gifts that God's given you. I love that you said I'm an accidental writer because it's only an accident to you. It's not an accident to the person who made you to do this. So it is for our benefit that you steward that in obedience. And so thank you. I can't wait until Closer to God comes out. I'm so excited.
Jeannie (43:13.006)
Yeah.
Shannon (43:26.585)
by what you have shared. But before we go, I want to ask you the question that I ask every guest, okay? So you can think about it or you can say the first thing that comes to mind. And also in this question, there are no limits like if you have allergies or if you have a gluten allergy or something like that, it doesn't apply in this question, okay? So just.
Jeannie (43:30.67)
Yes.
Yes.
Jeannie (43:51.694)
my, okay.
Shannon (43:53.529)
Yes, I want you to feel set free in more ways than one. Okay, so if you could design your perfect, beautiful day, what would it look like from start to finish?
Jeannie (43:53.685)
I'm sorry.
Okay.
Jeannie (44:04.91)
I'm sorry, I'm going to say this out loud. I would just eat bagels all day. Because I have celiac and I've had it for 10 years. And my kids know, they always say, like when mom goes to be with Jesus, just know that all I'm doing is worshiping him and eating bagels. Like that's all I'm doing. That's it. Okay.
Shannon (44:10.553)
Ha ha ha!
Shannon (44:22.521)
Right, right. Yes. That's so funny. Like I didn't even know that. I just picked gluten out of the air. I did not even know that.
Jeannie (44:29.582)
So when you said no guide to our ship, I was like, well, that changes everything. No, what I would do is I would pack bagels and I would go on a long hike. I love, I love, so I would spend the day on a trail with my family by a babbling brook that ends at a waterfall. That's my perfect day with a backpack full of bagels. And then we would go on the boat at night for a sunset cruise. That, that is my, that is my.
Shannon (44:55.897)
Yeah.
Jeannie (44:58.926)
perfect day. Yeah. With my people Yeah.
Shannon (45:00.281)
Yeah. yes. Woo, sign me up for that. That's wonderful. That is wonderful. Yes. Well, I'm so thankful that you spent this time with us. I know that for people watching and listening, it has been an encouragement and a much needed word in season for people, especially people who so long for a transformative.
Jeannie (45:04.814)
All right, let's do it. Come visit me at the lake. Let's do it.
Shannon (45:27.513)
relationship with Jesus Christ. Like we've heard that it's available. But we've heard that we have the same power within us that raised Christ from the dead. But I think we struggle to have any clue how to access that power and how to appropriate that power. so casually. Yeah, same power. But we don't know. And so I'm so thankful for your willingness to help us learn out of the overflow of all God is
Jeannie (45:31.534)
Yes.
Jeannie (45:39.438)
That's right. We say it so casually. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Jeannie (45:52.814)
I'm so thankful that you asked me.
Shannon (45:55.449)
teaching you. Yes, my joy and we'll have you back because there's so much more to talk about. Thank you.
Jeannie (45:59.534)
I want to respect you. I'm so grateful for you. You are a leader and a mentor, really, honestly. I learned so much from you, the way you lead, the way you teach, the way you love. So thank you for your friendship and thank you for having me on today.
Shannon (46:12.697)
Hmm.
Yes, absolutely. Well, people, make sure you check the show notes. We'll link all of the information there as well as to the 509 Foundation. I know that so many people are thinking, ooh, how do I get involved in that? I love the sweet, just the kindness of the Lord to go. I'm calling you out of adoption social work in this way, but I'm calling you into it in this way.
Jeannie (46:42.062)
Yes.
Shannon (46:42.141)
And so so kind of him and so yeah, so make sure that you keep up with Jeannie follow her on Instagram do all the things and pay attention to everywhere she'll be when you get a chance to go hear her speak do it and definitely get her books and Bible studies because they will so impact you and it will be It will be a refreshing take on familiar things. That is how I find that you write Jeannie
Jeannie (47:08.782)
Thank you.
Shannon (47:11.58)
It's things I've heard, scriptures I've heard or principles I've heard for so long and you bring a freshness to them that is obviously a work of the spirit, but it's so helpful and so needed. So thank you. All right, we'll see you guys next time.
Jeannie (47:22.798)
Thank you.