Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
There’s a story behind every great business. We started the podcast, Stories with Soul, to dive into the wins, lessons, and secrets behind the success of heavy hitting leaders, entrepreneurs, and artists in our community. Join host Jamey Ice and co-host Jimmy Williams every other Tuesday to unpack another great story behind Fort Worth’s favorite brands. Brought to you by 6th Ave Storytelling.
00:00:07:04 - 00:00:27:20
Jamey
Hey, I'm Jamie Ice Fort Worth native musician turned entrepreneur and someone who loves diving into the stories behind great brands. In each episode, we sit down with the leaders, dreamers and builders who are shaping our community. Pulling back the curtain on their journey and the real lessons and tactics that got them to where they are today. No fluff, no highlight reels.
00:00:27:22 - 00:00:50:06
Jamey
Just real conversations with remarkable people about what it takes to build something that truly matters. I'm your host, and this is stories with soul. All right. Welcome to stories with soul. Today, I'm thrilled to host Hal Brown, my friend, who I've been asking you to come join us for probably a couple of years now. So it's finally here.
00:00:50:06 - 00:01:13:22
Jamey
How is the founder and owner of Panther City Media Group, which is the powerhouse behind Forth Magazine and Fort Worth Ink over his career? How has played a pivotal role in shaping Fort Worth's media landscape, launching numerous successful publications and supporting over 225 local non-profits through his magazines. Resources. How is a Fort Worth native a TCU alum? You got the big old tech ring there, so we'll get into some of that.
00:01:14:00 - 00:01:29:14
Jamey
And is deeply tied to the city he loves. From playing safety on TCS football team to the new Panther City Media Group. He's the driving force of so much of the city's storytelling. How his commitment to Fort Worth shines in every aspect of his work. So how thank you for joining me.
00:01:29:16 - 00:01:31:17
Hal
Happy to be here. Glad new studio to.
00:01:31:17 - 00:01:47:11
Jamey
Thanks, man. Thank you. So I so let's let's kick it off in the beginning. You are a fort worth native. And then you stayed here for college. So you've lived and you hit the heights. Is that correct? I did.
00:01:47:17 - 00:01:47:23
Hal
Yeah.
00:01:48:01 - 00:01:49:15
Jamey
Okay. With the heights?
00:01:49:17 - 00:01:50:04
Hal
Yes.
00:01:50:05 - 00:01:52:06
Jamey
With T.C., did you ever leave?
00:01:52:08 - 00:01:52:19
Hal
What's that?
00:01:52:21 - 00:01:54:12
Jamey
Do you ever, like, leave it.
00:01:54:12 - 00:01:58:05
All? No, no, actually, I. And, you know, I'm.
00:01:58:06 - 00:02:00:18
Hal
So people have asked the question, where are you from?
00:02:00:18 - 00:02:03:18
And.
00:02:03:20 - 00:02:12:20
Hal
I like to. This is something I brought up in, I guess in 2014, we had, the protesters from the LTA organization.
00:02:13:00 - 00:02:13:06
Do you know.
00:02:13:06 - 00:02:17:06
Hal
What little I know is breastfeeding, organization.
00:02:17:08 - 00:02:20:08
Jamey
And the magazine had protesters.
00:02:20:08 - 00:02:21:12
Hal
Yes. And coming.
00:02:21:14 - 00:02:22:09
Jamey
From a breastfeeding.
00:02:22:09 - 00:02:24:18
Hal
Organization. Yes. Because they were protesting us for a story.
00:02:24:18 - 00:02:27:09
We did. And, and CBS.
00:02:27:09 - 00:02:27:19
Hal
Was there.
00:02:27:19 - 00:02:28:06
And.
00:02:28:09 - 00:02:29:02
Hal
NBC, we had all the.
00:02:29:02 - 00:02:32:15
Cameras on us, and they asked a question about where I was from. And, and I said I.
00:02:32:15 - 00:02:34:08
Hal
Was,
00:02:34:10 - 00:02:34:22
Born and.
00:02:34:22 - 00:02:35:14
Hal
Breastfed.
00:02:35:18 - 00:02:36:18
Right here in Fort Worth.
00:02:36:20 - 00:02:39:06
Jamey
Okay. Does that your tagline know?
00:02:39:06 - 00:02:40:17
Hal
Yeah. I'm born and breastfed right here.
00:02:40:17 - 00:02:43:12
And, and I said, yeah, I have nothing. I have no.
00:02:43:12 - 00:02:45:08
Hal
Issue with breastfeeding whatsoever.
00:02:45:09 - 00:02:46:11
00:02:46:11 - 00:02:49:12
Hal
It was a rider that was, a.
00:02:49:14 - 00:02:50:12
00:02:50:14 - 00:02:51:08
Hal
He was a.
00:02:51:08 - 00:02:52:02
Opinion rider.
00:02:52:02 - 00:02:53:03
Hal
Right? It wasn't it. Yeah.
00:02:53:03 - 00:02:54:08
It wasn't somebody that was.
00:02:54:08 - 00:02:59:21
Hal
From our staff. And so she happened to write something about about.
00:02:59:21 - 00:03:03:12
Being, being distracted in church by somebody doing that, and they jump.
00:03:03:14 - 00:03:05:11
Hal
Right? And they say, hey, opportunity.
00:03:05:11 - 00:03:06:18
Jamey
To piss off some moms.
00:03:06:19 - 00:03:12:10
Hal
So it was it was it was a lot of news, but it was I mean, what are you going to do? Yeah. So,
00:03:12:12 - 00:03:16:03
It we have some people were mad at us, but not very many.
00:03:16:05 - 00:03:34:18
Jamey
That's that's some that you have. We'll get we'll get into one of my questions I want to go into. There is people you have made angry because if you're doing any sort of journalism and it's meaningful or interesting, you're going to push people one way. Yes, you're going to put. So we'll get into it. So, so born and raised here.
00:03:34:19 - 00:03:42:00
Jamey
Yep. And then you you played football, right? Yep. Okay. Play football. Yeah. In which case you to play football.
00:03:42:02 - 00:03:42:23
Hal
Yes.
00:03:43:01 - 00:03:43:14
Born here.
00:03:43:14 - 00:03:49:22
Hal
Went to, Country Day. Okay. Early, failed kindergarten.
00:03:50:00 - 00:03:52:19
Couldn't get the square block in the ground. And,
00:03:52:21 - 00:03:53:16
Hal
Did that twice.
00:03:53:16 - 00:03:55:17
And then we transferred into Tanglewood.
00:03:55:19 - 00:03:56:11
Hal
Which is where we.
00:03:56:11 - 00:03:56:23
Lived in that.
00:03:56:23 - 00:03:58:01
Hal
Neighborhood. Yeah.
00:03:58:03 - 00:04:02:03
So went to Tanglewood and then, in second.
00:04:02:03 - 00:04:04:01
Hal
Grade, Fort Worth was late.
00:04:04:01 - 00:04:05:19
In segregation.
00:04:05:21 - 00:04:06:19
Hal
Schools.
00:04:06:21 - 00:04:08:00
And we.
00:04:08:02 - 00:04:12:15
Hal
Were bus to Como. So we were the first class ever.
00:04:12:17 - 00:04:14:18
In segregation. And so we were bus.
00:04:14:18 - 00:04:17:06
Hal
To Como, which.
00:04:17:08 - 00:04:20:08
Was an interesting experience. So,
00:04:20:10 - 00:04:21:18
Hal
That's where I learned to fight.
00:04:21:20 - 00:04:24:16
Really had my first fight and my probably 20th fight there.
00:04:24:21 - 00:04:25:16
Hal
00:04:25:16 - 00:04:30:23
And and then they came back to Tanglewood, and then we went, went up going to McLain, I mean.
00:04:30:23 - 00:04:31:09
Hal
To, to.
00:04:31:09 - 00:04:32:07
Stripling instead of.
00:04:32:07 - 00:04:35:00
Hal
McLain. Yeah. Because,
00:04:35:02 - 00:04:36:08
Stripling is not the.
00:04:36:08 - 00:04:37:06
Hal
School you go to.
00:04:37:06 - 00:04:38:04
If you're coming out of our.
00:04:38:05 - 00:04:42:10
Hal
Tanglewood district. But we did that because I.
00:04:42:12 - 00:04:43:09
My parents didn't want me to.
00:04:43:09 - 00:04:46:08
Hal
Get a Pascal, so they want me to go to heights.
00:04:46:10 - 00:04:47:01
00:04:47:03 - 00:04:50:13
Hal
They had a better football team. Okay. So I couldn't go there.
00:04:50:13 - 00:04:51:14
And I'd have to sit.
00:04:51:14 - 00:04:52:18
Hal
Out. My first year.
00:04:52:20 - 00:04:53:10
In high.
00:04:53:10 - 00:04:55:03
Hal
School if I didn't.
00:04:55:07 - 00:04:56:11
Come from a feeder.
00:04:56:11 - 00:05:00:16
Hal
School. So I had to go to Stripling. Right? To play football at.
00:05:00:16 - 00:05:01:07
Heights and not have.
00:05:01:07 - 00:05:01:20
Hal
To sit out.
00:05:01:23 - 00:05:02:07
Jamey
Okay.
00:05:02:07 - 00:05:02:21
Hal
So we went to.
00:05:02:21 - 00:05:07:10
Tanglewood and then Stripling and then Heights. Yeah. And I was going to.
00:05:07:10 - 00:05:08:21
Hal
Go to Texas.
00:05:08:23 - 00:05:09:07
And.
00:05:09:10 - 00:05:10:10
Hal
Do the football route.
00:05:10:10 - 00:05:10:19
And.
00:05:11:00 - 00:05:11:06
Hal
Was.
00:05:11:06 - 00:05:13:23
Registered in Jester Dormitory.
00:05:14:01 - 00:05:15:08
Jamey
Are you were like going to go to I.
00:05:15:08 - 00:05:17:17
Was done, I was ready, I was in and I ended up.
00:05:17:17 - 00:05:18:17
Hal
Staying here.
00:05:18:19 - 00:05:20:10
Last minute.
00:05:20:12 - 00:05:22:22
Hal
Tim Wacker was the coach.
00:05:22:22 - 00:05:24:15
That was coming in.
00:05:24:17 - 00:05:26:18
Hal
Replaced for DRI.
00:05:26:20 - 00:05:29:04
And he had won an at two national championships.
00:05:29:04 - 00:05:31:13
Hal
At Southwest Texas State.
00:05:31:15 - 00:05:35:10
So he was coming in. I thought I had a better chance on playing.
00:05:35:12 - 00:05:36:09
Hal
With him.
00:05:36:09 - 00:05:37:03
Coming in as a new.
00:05:37:03 - 00:05:38:22
Hal
Coach. Okay, so I stayed here.
00:05:39:01 - 00:05:42:08
Jamey
Yeah. And and and was TCU good at that time?
00:05:42:10 - 00:05:45:12
My freshman year we had won one game.
00:05:45:14 - 00:05:47:11
Jamey
Oh gosh.
00:05:47:13 - 00:05:47:18
Hal
We.
00:05:47:18 - 00:05:48:07
Jamey
Answer is.
00:05:48:07 - 00:05:48:16
Hal
No.
00:05:48:18 - 00:05:51:20
Hadn't been to a bowl game in, 19 years.
00:05:51:20 - 00:05:54:15
Hal
Yeah. Now, granted.
00:05:54:17 - 00:05:55:05
There weren't as.
00:05:55:05 - 00:05:56:17
Hal
Many bowls back.
00:05:56:17 - 00:06:00:00
Then. Yeah. My dad was an All-American. He played.
00:06:00:00 - 00:06:00:23
Hal
At.
00:06:01:01 - 00:06:05:10
Vanderbilt when they beat Auburn and the Gator Bowl in 55.
00:06:05:11 - 00:06:08:09
Hal
Okay. They had like 5 or 6 bowls.
00:06:08:11 - 00:06:08:23
Jamey
Wow.
00:06:09:01 - 00:06:10:03
And then when I played in the.
00:06:10:03 - 00:06:18:00
Hal
80s, we had 14 bowls. And now there's 44, I think. Right. Yeah. It means a lot more.
00:06:18:02 - 00:06:19:19
And a lot more then going to one.
00:06:19:19 - 00:06:20:10
Hal
So we went to.
00:06:20:10 - 00:06:21:13
The Bluebonnet Bowl my second.
00:06:21:13 - 00:06:23:17
Hal
Year. We were the biggest.
00:06:23:18 - 00:06:24:23
Comeback in the history.
00:06:24:23 - 00:06:25:17
Hal
Of college football.
00:06:25:22 - 00:06:28:18
Now we won one game, in 80.
00:06:28:18 - 00:06:29:06
Hal
380.
00:06:29:06 - 00:06:29:22
Four and then 80.
00:06:29:22 - 00:06:32:07
Hal
Four, 85.
00:06:32:09 - 00:06:36:17
We were the media darling. What to do on the bowl?
00:06:36:19 - 00:06:38:09
Hal
Ended up losing to.
00:06:38:11 - 00:06:39:11
In the it's.
00:06:39:13 - 00:06:48:20
Hal
Heartbreaking loss, but, but it was Fort worth was purple. You couldn't go anywhere. We couldn't go, like, anywhere that have people biased dinner.
00:06:48:22 - 00:06:49:12
Jamey
How cool.
00:06:49:12 - 00:06:51:00
Hal
Because they were so happy that you.
00:06:51:01 - 00:06:51:19
Finally.
00:06:51:21 - 00:06:53:07
Hal
Is finally.
00:06:53:09 - 00:06:53:21
Winning.
00:06:53:22 - 00:06:59:05
Jamey
Yeah. So and so. So your dad played. So y'all kind of an athletic family?
00:06:59:09 - 00:07:01:12
Hal
Yes. At least.
00:07:01:14 - 00:07:03:06
At least my dad and my twin sister.
00:07:03:09 - 00:07:03:18
Jamey
00:07:03:18 - 00:07:05:12
And I. But the other one's not so much.
00:07:05:12 - 00:07:28:11
Jamey
Yeah. And so were you. Were you writing to the kids? Because that's like. That's you have sort of this juxtaposition of athlete jock who then goes and becomes a journalist, like, is it kind of like when you think of when it's like the creative guy with the notepad and then you're out there smashing people on the football field.
00:07:28:13 - 00:07:33:16
Jamey
So were you like a writer when you entered journalism? Like, did you get because you that's what you studied TCU, right?
00:07:33:18 - 00:07:34:05
Hal
Well.
00:07:34:05 - 00:07:36:12
Interesting that, there was not a.
00:07:36:12 - 00:07:36:23
Hal
Choice.
00:07:36:23 - 00:07:39:12
Of the matter. I ended up in this.
00:07:39:12 - 00:07:40:04
Hal
Journalistic.
00:07:40:07 - 00:07:41:13
Industry not.
00:07:41:13 - 00:07:45:15
Hal
Because I was a gifted writer. Okay. At TCU.
00:07:45:15 - 00:07:46:20
At that time, there was an.
00:07:46:22 - 00:07:47:13
Hal
Ad PR.
00:07:47:13 - 00:07:49:06
Program, and it was.
00:07:49:06 - 00:07:50:08
Hal
Out of the journalism.
00:07:50:11 - 00:07:51:09
Department.
00:07:51:11 - 00:07:52:00
Hal
Right.
00:07:52:02 - 00:07:55:08
And so if you wanted to be a journalist, if you want to be a video.
00:07:55:08 - 00:07:56:16
Hal
Journalist, if you want to do.
00:07:56:19 - 00:07:57:18
Anything on that end of.
00:07:57:18 - 00:07:59:08
Hal
The business, you you.
00:07:59:08 - 00:08:00:06
Were in that school.
00:08:00:06 - 00:08:02:04
Hal
But you also could be.
00:08:02:06 - 00:08:02:10
In.
00:08:02:10 - 00:08:04:19
Hal
Advertising, a creative and advertising.
00:08:04:19 - 00:08:05:13
Person that.
00:08:05:13 - 00:08:06:09
Hal
Was,
00:08:06:11 - 00:08:07:14
Not graphics necessarily.
00:08:07:14 - 00:08:09:16
Hal
Had a graphic school. But this is.
00:08:09:18 - 00:08:10:14
You know, any on the.
00:08:10:14 - 00:08:13:22
Hal
Business side of advertising. So the advertising.
00:08:13:22 - 00:08:15:02
Is where I wanted to go.
00:08:15:07 - 00:08:17:07
Jamey
Okay. You wanted to go into journalism?
00:08:17:12 - 00:08:18:00
Hal
Yeah.
00:08:18:02 - 00:08:21:08
So there was a show on at that time called thirtysomething.
00:08:21:10 - 00:08:23:00
Hal
There's a bunch of really cool.
00:08:23:02 - 00:08:25:01
Ad agency dudes, and I'm like.
00:08:25:04 - 00:08:30:22
Hal
I like, right brain creative. You know, I was good with people.
00:08:31:00 - 00:08:32:01
You know, so I.
00:08:32:03 - 00:08:33:07
Hal
I was like, that looks like a.
00:08:33:07 - 00:08:35:01
Lot of fun.
00:08:35:03 - 00:08:42:13
Hal
And so I had to your sophomore year, you have to declare a major. And so it was that or nothing.
00:08:42:13 - 00:08:44:00
I mean, it was like I didn't know what I wanted to do.
00:08:44:00 - 00:08:45:14
Hal
You know, you have to declare a major. Yeah.
00:08:45:20 - 00:08:50:03
And so I go, yeah. And my roommate at the time was Bob Lilly.
00:08:50:05 - 00:08:50:20
Hal
That's.
00:08:50:22 - 00:08:51:14
Not.
00:08:51:16 - 00:08:56:05
Hal
Obviously the first draft pick ever of the Dallas Cowboys. Bob Lilly was his son.
00:08:56:08 - 00:08:57:08
Jamey
Okay.
00:08:57:10 - 00:09:01:09
And so he and I were roommates, and, and he goes, man, if I had to do this again, I.
00:09:01:09 - 00:09:03:23
Hal
Did I a PR. Yeah, that sounds good.
00:09:04:01 - 00:09:05:07
Jamey
Yeah. Sign me.
00:09:05:07 - 00:09:06:10
Hal
Up. Sign me up.
00:09:06:10 - 00:09:09:15
So, so that was my that was my.
00:09:09:15 - 00:09:12:23
Hal
Objective to do that, which is what I did when I graduated.
00:09:13:00 - 00:09:16:05
Jamey
So you graduated and went into advertising world.
00:09:16:07 - 00:09:16:16
Hal
So again.
00:09:16:16 - 00:09:17:23
Jamey
So you went into advertising? Yes.
00:09:17:23 - 00:09:21:02
Hal
Yes. Worked for three different ad agencies.
00:09:21:04 - 00:09:26:00
And that's, you know, on my account service side. And then ended.
00:09:26:00 - 00:09:27:14
Hal
Up it's actually obviously.
00:09:27:14 - 00:09:28:09
How I ended up in the.
00:09:28:09 - 00:09:30:03
Hal
Publishing business, but that's a.
00:09:30:05 - 00:09:35:14
Story we can talk about maybe in a bit, but, you know, it's just kind of right time.
00:09:35:16 - 00:09:36:15
Hal
Right place, taking.
00:09:36:15 - 00:09:41:17
Opportunities that come, and there's an opportunity that came and,
00:09:41:19 - 00:09:43:07
Hal
The guy that I that hired.
00:09:43:07 - 00:09:44:20
Me in the third ad agency that.
00:09:44:20 - 00:09:46:16
Hal
I worked at was like a.
00:09:46:18 - 00:09:51:00
Huge entrepreneur, didn't graduate, didn't go to college.
00:09:51:02 - 00:09:56:06
Hal
And is is, a guy who I worked with as a partner for, you know, 12 years.
00:09:56:08 - 00:09:58:02
Jamey
On the publishing side.
00:09:58:04 - 00:09:59:21
Hal
Yes, but started out on the agency side.
00:09:59:21 - 00:10:02:05
Jamey
Okay. So he had an agency. You were working for him?
00:10:02:05 - 00:10:02:16
Hal
That's correct.
00:10:02:21 - 00:10:31:01
Jamey
Stories With soul is brought to you by my company, six App Storytelling, where we help entrepreneurs and small businesses grow through the power of storytelling. If you're stuck watching competitors get all the attention, or you're tired of wasting money on random marketing tactics that don't work, you're not alone. As an entrepreneur who's built multiple businesses, I know firsthand how frustrating it can be to have a great product or have a great service, but struggle to get the attention you deserve.
00:10:31:07 - 00:10:57:22
Jamey
Because here's the truth being good at what you do isn't enough anymore. You need a way to stand out and connect with your ideal customers. And that's why we created the storytelling pathway, a proven framework for story driven marketing that turns solid businesses into brands. People can't stop talking about it. So whether you're just starting out or if you're ready to scale, we can help you craft and share your unique story in a way that attracts the right customers and drives real growth.
00:10:58:00 - 00:11:09:14
Jamey
So if you're ready to stand out, visit sixth Ave storytelling.com today. I would love to chat with you. And then how so? How how did you wind up doing the magazines?
00:11:09:16 - 00:11:13:05
Hal
So we were I was hired I don't know.
00:11:13:06 - 00:11:25:09
This is like back in 91 or something like that. And, and there was a small, depression that year. And so, it wasn't a major one, but it was it's on the, you know, it's in the, in the record books.
00:11:25:09 - 00:11:26:20
Hal
And so a lot of businesses.
00:11:26:20 - 00:11:28:17
Were pulling back, the.
00:11:28:17 - 00:11:29:06
Jamey
Ad ad.
00:11:29:06 - 00:11:30:07
Hal
Budgets, ad budgets.
00:11:30:10 - 00:11:32:06
One of our biggest clients.
00:11:32:08 - 00:11:33:20
Hal
Was Michaels arts and crafts stores.
00:11:34:00 - 00:11:34:15
Jamey
Okay.
00:11:34:17 - 00:11:42:15
And they had at that time 450 locations. So they're not small. And it was a big account. It was a big national account.
00:11:42:18 - 00:11:46:19
Hal
Yeah. Which was, you know, for Fort Worth, Texas, it was a big deal. All the ad.
00:11:46:19 - 00:11:50:00
Agencies are really big. You know, we're in Dallas.
00:11:50:02 - 00:11:50:08
Hal
You know.
00:11:50:08 - 00:11:57:00
Even Dallas didn't have a lot of them. You had to go to LA or New York. And, so that's kind of I did.
00:11:57:00 - 00:11:57:14
Hal
I love Fort.
00:11:57:14 - 00:12:04:19
Worth. I don't want to move. Yeah. And I didn't want to move to Dallas for sure. And most other people did. Most people were trying to.
00:12:04:19 - 00:12:05:19
Hal
Get out of Fort Worth at.
00:12:05:19 - 00:12:07:07
That time. It's not what.
00:12:07:07 - 00:12:08:19
Hal
It is today. Yeah, I.
00:12:08:19 - 00:12:09:08
Didn't I love.
00:12:09:08 - 00:12:12:18
Hal
Fort Worth wanting to stay here. So I took the agency job.
00:12:12:20 - 00:12:13:22
00:12:14:00 - 00:12:16:02
Hal
So Michael's pulled their business.
00:12:16:04 - 00:12:25:09
I've been there a few months, maybe six months. And they. They took their business in-house. And so I'm like a great. I come on board and I lose the biggest client.
00:12:25:15 - 00:12:26:10
Hal
Right.
00:12:26:12 - 00:12:27:21
Jamey
Oh, for the for the agency.
00:12:27:21 - 00:12:30:02
That's not good.
00:12:30:04 - 00:12:33:10
Hal
But the the departure was not because of us.
00:12:33:10 - 00:12:34:06
We had nothing wrong.
00:12:34:06 - 00:12:36:10
Hal
They liked us a lot, had no issue. They were just.
00:12:36:10 - 00:12:37:06
Trying to save money.
00:12:37:08 - 00:12:39:06
Hal
Yeah. Right. Yeah. And so. So that.
00:12:39:12 - 00:12:40:17
00:12:40:19 - 00:12:41:08
Hal
They pulled it.
00:12:41:08 - 00:12:41:21
Away and we.
00:12:41:21 - 00:12:42:08
Hal
Went back.
00:12:42:08 - 00:12:42:20
To them and said.
00:12:42:20 - 00:12:48:01
Hal
We gotta figure out we have a great relationship. How do we keep these folks? So we approached.
00:12:48:01 - 00:12:50:19
Them about a concept.
00:12:50:21 - 00:12:53:03
Hal
There are, at the.
00:12:53:03 - 00:12:55:14
Time, there was two craft magazines that were just not well.
00:12:55:14 - 00:12:56:12
Hal
Produced.
00:12:56:14 - 00:12:57:00
And so we.
00:12:57:00 - 00:12:58:06
Hal
Designed ads to put.
00:12:58:06 - 00:12:58:21
In those.
00:12:58:21 - 00:13:00:03
Hal
Crappy.
00:13:00:05 - 00:13:02:13
Magazines. Okay. And other media we.
00:13:02:13 - 00:13:06:22
Hal
Did for them. But so, so when you thought through it and we had creative people, we had.
00:13:06:22 - 00:13:07:21
Advertising.
00:13:07:23 - 00:13:09:11
Hal
Copywriters and we had art.
00:13:09:11 - 00:13:14:17
Directors and, we said, why don't we take a run at publishing a magazine?
00:13:14:19 - 00:13:15:07
Hal
And so,
00:13:15:10 - 00:13:15:19
Jamey
Michael's.
00:13:15:19 - 00:13:19:03
Hal
Magazine and Michael's magazine, we turn this off.
00:13:19:05 - 00:13:19:19
And so let.
00:13:19:19 - 00:13:21:03
Hal
Us so we approached.
00:13:21:03 - 00:13:21:17
Them.
00:13:21:19 - 00:13:22:01
Hal
With the.
00:13:22:01 - 00:13:22:15
Concept.
00:13:22:16 - 00:13:24:11
Hal
We said, how about we do a.
00:13:24:17 - 00:13:25:20
Magazine that.
00:13:25:22 - 00:13:26:21
Hal
We'll produce?
00:13:26:23 - 00:13:27:16
00:13:27:18 - 00:13:28:12
Hal
We'll put it, we'll put.
00:13:28:12 - 00:13:30:02
Your name on it. It'll be Arts and Crafts.
00:13:30:02 - 00:13:35:06
Hal
Magazine, and we'll have Michael's logo. We were doing some book publishing at the.
00:13:35:06 - 00:13:35:18
Time, so we.
00:13:35:18 - 00:13:38:03
Hal
Had some distribution experience. So we said, we'll.
00:13:38:03 - 00:13:39:15
Put it on the newsstand.
00:13:39:17 - 00:13:42:03
Jamey
And so now just in Michael's, you're going to like.
00:13:42:05 - 00:13:43:04
On the national newsstand.
00:13:43:04 - 00:13:44:08
Hal
We had ability to do that.
00:13:44:08 - 00:13:47:10
So because we had done it with on the, on the book side.
00:13:47:10 - 00:13:47:21
Hal
So we had a.
00:13:47:21 - 00:13:48:20
Little understanding of.
00:13:48:20 - 00:13:49:04
Hal
That.
00:13:49:06 - 00:13:51:08
Jamey
Your agency had had published books.
00:13:51:13 - 00:13:53:08
Well, I told you, my partner, a.
00:13:53:08 - 00:13:55:04
Hal
Partner, he was, a huge.
00:13:55:04 - 00:13:56:03
Entrepreneur. And so.
00:13:56:03 - 00:13:57:14
Hal
He had he hired me to.
00:13:57:14 - 00:13:58:11
Run the agency.
00:13:58:11 - 00:14:03:14
Hal
Because he's, he started doing some book publishing, same company out of the ad agency. So he had.
00:14:03:14 - 00:14:07:02
Jamey
The distribution connections. Right. Okay. That's right.
00:14:07:04 - 00:14:07:14
Hal
And so.
00:14:07:14 - 00:14:08:13
Jamey
What a cool idea.
00:14:08:13 - 00:14:09:11
Hal
Yeah. So we.
00:14:09:11 - 00:14:10:15
Approached them and said.
00:14:10:15 - 00:14:14:13
Hal
Hey, we'll give you three full page ads. We'll put.
00:14:14:13 - 00:14:15:08
Your name on the.
00:14:15:08 - 00:14:17:02
Hal
Cover. All the crafts that.
00:14:17:02 - 00:14:18:23
We make and put in an agent will come from your.
00:14:18:23 - 00:14:20:17
Hal
Store.
00:14:20:18 - 00:14:21:17
And all we ask.
00:14:21:17 - 00:14:24:08
Hal
Is that you sell it at the registers.
00:14:24:10 - 00:14:25:13
And they said, how much is that going.
00:14:25:13 - 00:14:30:06
Hal
To cost us? And we said, it's going to cost you nothing. Well, we'll do it for free.
00:14:30:07 - 00:14:32:15
Jamey
Really? That's a no brainer, you say.
00:14:32:17 - 00:14:33:06
And they had.
00:14:33:06 - 00:14:39:02
Hal
Editorial control so that literally we had to get it approved, every issue approved.
00:14:39:02 - 00:14:43:23
Jamey
So y'all just bet on people will buy this right. And if people buy it.
00:14:44:01 - 00:14:45:01
Hal
Yeah.
00:14:45:03 - 00:14:45:17
It was.
00:14:45:17 - 00:14:48:00
Hal
A cash cow. It was. So.
00:14:48:02 - 00:14:54:15
Jamey
So y'all launched the magazine? Yeah. Had never done that. Right. It's in stores.
00:14:54:17 - 00:14:55:08
Hal
Yeah.
00:14:55:10 - 00:14:56:21
Jamey
And people are buying it and like the.
00:14:56:21 - 00:14:58:09
Hal
So crafters are.
00:14:58:09 - 00:14:59:18
Passionate about crafting.
00:15:00:00 - 00:15:02:01
Hal
Okay. So that's why the stores exist right?
00:15:02:01 - 00:15:02:09
I mean.
00:15:02:15 - 00:15:04:18
Hal
Some people are passionate about reading.
00:15:04:18 - 00:15:06:14
And some people I mean.
00:15:06:16 - 00:15:08:03
Hal
You know, it's a it's a.
00:15:08:03 - 00:15:09:18
National pastime crafting.
00:15:09:18 - 00:15:12:00
Hal
I guess. And and so they have a real loyal.
00:15:12:00 - 00:15:13:09
Audience and, and they have.
00:15:13:09 - 00:15:20:12
Hal
450 stores and there's 4 or 5 registers in every store. Yeah. And we have placement at every register at four.
00:15:20:12 - 00:15:20:21
Hundred for.
00:15:20:21 - 00:15:21:10
Jamey
Your own words.
00:15:21:10 - 00:15:22:23
Hal
I mean, you distribution over yourself and.
00:15:23:04 - 00:15:25:12
Not sell them. And plus.
00:15:25:12 - 00:15:31:04
Hal
It's just stuff that's here, right. Yeah. So it was, it was it immediately was a.
00:15:31:06 - 00:15:31:21
An incredible.
00:15:31:21 - 00:15:34:05
Hal
Success story. It's we use that later.
00:15:34:07 - 00:15:36:16
That same model.
00:15:36:18 - 00:15:38:06
Hal
You know, we did it everywhere except for Fort.
00:15:38:06 - 00:15:42:04
Worth magazine, probably. But everything else had.
00:15:42:06 - 00:15:46:21
Hal
At most everything else had a tie to it that was really successful, had a tie to it where.
00:15:46:21 - 00:15:47:18
We did something not.
00:15:47:18 - 00:15:48:20
Hal
Traditionally, but we did.
00:15:48:20 - 00:15:50:07
Something that had an advantage.
00:15:50:07 - 00:15:52:16
Hal
Over the other people that were doing it.
00:15:52:17 - 00:15:53:21
Jamey
Like, what do you mean.
00:15:53:23 - 00:15:54:17
Like Michael's?
00:15:54:22 - 00:15:58:23
Hal
Yeah. The example there is, not only did they.
00:15:59:00 - 00:16:02:08
Sell it in their stores, but when you walk into an ad agency.
00:16:02:08 - 00:16:04:22
Hal
Or you walk into a.
00:16:05:00 - 00:16:06:21
You know, a balloon company.
00:16:07:03 - 00:16:12:10
Hal
And you say, hey, we're with Jax Arts and crafts, and we'd like to sell.
00:16:12:10 - 00:16:13:03
You an ad.
00:16:13:05 - 00:16:13:22
Hal
They're like, okay.
00:16:13:22 - 00:16:14:08
I don't know.
00:16:14:08 - 00:16:14:15
Hal
Who you.
00:16:14:15 - 00:16:20:12
Are. I don't know who Jack is. When you say, I'm with Michael's Arts and Crafts magazine.
00:16:20:14 - 00:16:23:07
Hal
They assume that we worked at Michael's.
00:16:23:09 - 00:16:25:18
They've been trying to get balloons and Michael's forever.
00:16:25:19 - 00:16:26:07
Hal
Okay.
00:16:26:11 - 00:16:27:18
And or they have millions.
00:16:27:18 - 00:16:31:03
Hal
And Michael's. Yeah. They take your call. The president of the company takes your call.
00:16:31:04 - 00:16:31:17
Jamey
Yeah.
00:16:31:19 - 00:16:33:23
Hal
And they love you because you're.
00:16:34:03 - 00:16:35:05
One of their most.
00:16:35:07 - 00:16:38:00
Hal
They sell more of your product than anybody. Yeah. So that.
00:16:38:04 - 00:16:39:21
Advertising introduction.
00:16:39:23 - 00:16:41:03
Hal
Is easier. Oh, gosh.
00:16:41:03 - 00:16:43:13
Jamey
And you have your own distribution. It's like yeah.
00:16:43:18 - 00:16:44:02
Hal
Yeah.
00:16:44:06 - 00:16:57:21
Jamey
It was, it was like when, like when, Starbucks was like, we should start selling music back when you still if they would sell CDs because they were, you had all these stores and all. Yeah. So as you know, you brought a bunch of stuff here is the do you have one of the original Michael's?
00:16:58:01 - 00:16:58:23
Actually, I didn't bring.
00:16:59:00 - 00:17:00:04
Hal
Michael's like.
00:17:00:06 - 00:17:02:18
Jamey
But you want so you doing that and it's going well.
00:17:02:19 - 00:17:04:00
Hal
Going well.
00:17:04:02 - 00:17:06:11
Jamey
And then you're like let's do more of these.
00:17:06:12 - 00:17:08:16
Hal
Yeah. We had, we, I, we still.
00:17:08:16 - 00:17:10:13
Had the agency,
00:17:10:15 - 00:17:13:12
Hal
And, so I.
00:17:13:15 - 00:17:15:16
It was my client. It was an agency clients.
00:17:15:16 - 00:17:16:05
Hal
We had two.
00:17:16:05 - 00:17:17:18
Divisions kind of at the company.
00:17:17:20 - 00:17:18:22
Hal
They decided it was better.
00:17:18:22 - 00:17:21:15
To be in the other division. The division.
00:17:21:17 - 00:17:23:00
Hal
So they bought me out.
00:17:23:00 - 00:17:25:07
In essence, and moved it.
00:17:25:09 - 00:17:25:13
Hal
Okay.
00:17:25:17 - 00:17:26:15
And then.
00:17:26:17 - 00:17:29:15
Hal
I was like, well, I don't I really like that.
00:17:29:17 - 00:17:30:05
Jamey
Magazine.
00:17:30:07 - 00:17:30:23
Hal
I like that.
00:17:30:23 - 00:17:33:05
Jamey
So you inadvertently fell into Magazine World?
00:17:33:10 - 00:17:35:02
Hal
Yes, I did take a I.
00:17:35:05 - 00:17:36:00
Did take a stance.
00:17:36:04 - 00:17:40:03
Hal
Away. I actually went to work at Witherspoon.
00:17:40:05 - 00:17:43:15
And then my for my, my.
00:17:43:19 - 00:17:44:06
Hal
Future.
00:17:44:06 - 00:17:44:18
Partner.
00:17:45:00 - 00:17:45:19
Hal
The guy who hired me.
00:17:45:19 - 00:17:47:06
At the agency called me.
00:17:47:06 - 00:17:51:16
Hal
Up and said, hey, I, I want to have you can work here. I've got.
00:17:51:18 - 00:17:53:04
An idea and I'd.
00:17:53:04 - 00:17:54:05
Hal
Like you to do it with me.
00:17:54:05 - 00:17:57:05
And, and so.
00:17:57:07 - 00:17:59:05
Hal
I said, let's do it.
00:17:59:07 - 00:18:05:21
This is what I want to do. And so I came up, came back, and then he and I started a new company, and then we.
00:18:05:21 - 00:18:06:15
Hal
Just we broke.
00:18:06:15 - 00:18:10:09
Off from the, agency and book side and started the magazine company.
00:18:10:09 - 00:18:13:00
Hal
So we bought Michael's.
00:18:13:02 - 00:18:14:09
Jamey
You bought that magazine for.
00:18:14:11 - 00:18:15:13
Hal
From his company.
00:18:15:18 - 00:18:16:16
He used, you know, he.
00:18:16:16 - 00:18:17:01
Hal
Used his.
00:18:17:01 - 00:18:19:18
Stock and, and, and they.
00:18:19:20 - 00:18:21:02
Hal
He took out his partners.
00:18:21:02 - 00:18:23:23
In Michael's, and then he divested himself from all the other.
00:18:23:23 - 00:18:24:23
Hal
Products they were.
00:18:25:01 - 00:18:34:13
Putting out. So it was him and I, I was a minority partner, by the way. Very important. And and so we did the same thing with.
00:18:34:18 - 00:18:37:16
Hal
Bass Pro Shops, a very similar thing with Bass.
00:18:37:16 - 00:18:40:13
Jamey
Pro, Bass Pro Shop fans or hardcore fans.
00:18:40:19 - 00:18:41:05
Hal
Yes.
00:18:41:05 - 00:18:41:12
Hunting.
00:18:41:12 - 00:18:42:05
Hal
Fishing guys.
00:18:42:05 - 00:18:43:04
Right. And you.
00:18:43:04 - 00:18:43:14
Hal
Put Bass.
00:18:43:14 - 00:18:45:02
Pro Shops on there and.
00:18:45:03 - 00:18:48:03
Hal
People are, you know, this is
00:18:48:05 - 00:18:49:07
They don't they didn't have all.
00:18:49:07 - 00:18:50:19
Hal
The stores they have today, but it was still.
00:18:50:19 - 00:18:52:05
The iconic. I mean, it.
00:18:52:05 - 00:18:53:20
Hal
Was the big time leader.
00:18:53:22 - 00:18:57:16
Jamey
Yeah. And so and you're approaching these as ad guy. You're not writing articles.
00:18:57:16 - 00:18:57:21
Hal
Right.
00:18:58:01 - 00:19:03:04
Jamey
Okay. You're not you're not doing any article kind of stuff. You're putting it together and selling it.
00:19:03:06 - 00:19:04:02
Hal
Yeah.
00:19:04:04 - 00:19:06:18
Jamey
And getting other folks to advertise in it.
00:19:06:20 - 00:19:08:12
Hal
Yeah. So I, I think I.
00:19:08:14 - 00:19:11:19
I'm more of an entrepreneur, than I am.
00:19:11:21 - 00:19:12:22
Hal
A journalist, I can.
00:19:12:22 - 00:19:13:21
Write I mean, obviously I.
00:19:13:21 - 00:19:14:08
Hal
Went to school.
00:19:14:08 - 00:19:15:13
For it, but it's not my gift.
00:19:15:13 - 00:19:21:00
Jamey
Yeah. You're, you sent me your culture index profile.
00:19:21:02 - 00:19:22:04
Hal
Yeah.
00:19:22:06 - 00:19:29:16
Jamey
Which which I talk a lot about culture index on on this. We use it as a profile assessment. But you're you're a rainmaker. Was that right?
00:19:29:18 - 00:19:35:23
Hal
Yes, I was, I sent it to you, but I haven't looked at it. We used to. We have, I guess, subscribe to it for a couple of years and use it for new.
00:19:35:23 - 00:19:38:08
Hires and to analyze our internal people.
00:19:38:08 - 00:19:39:01
Hal
Yeah. We.
00:19:39:01 - 00:19:40:05
Did all of our employees.
00:19:40:05 - 00:19:43:04
Hal
And so I just for that to you, I haven't looked at it in five years.
00:19:43:04 - 00:20:02:17
Jamey
Yeah. So so rainmakers are called rainmaker because they, they, they can go outside and dance and make it rain. Yeah. They love sales. They kind of have this, like, magic and charisma where doors just magically open for them and things happen and they get people excited, but they hate being put in a box. Yeah. Like, don't put me in a box or give me.
00:20:02:18 - 00:20:08:00
Jamey
They have I would assume you have a hard time like following rules. If you think the rules are.
00:20:08:02 - 00:20:09:01
Hal
Hard, rules are.
00:20:09:02 - 00:20:09:21
Suggestions.
00:20:09:21 - 00:20:11:12
Hal
I like congestions, I mean, yeah.
00:20:11:14 - 00:20:13:17
Guidelines is when I call them,
00:20:13:19 - 00:20:17:16
Hal
My wife is opposite of that. Yes, she's a rule follower.
00:20:17:16 - 00:20:18:23
I'm not.
00:20:19:01 - 00:20:28:23
Jamey
Yeah. But rainmakers, like, they, they just kind of make it happen. But yeah, they don't like doing the same thing over and over again. But they're always really talented. But then draw outside the lines.
00:20:29:00 - 00:20:31:06
Yeah, I kind of ADHD folks.
00:20:31:08 - 00:20:31:13
Hal
Yeah.
00:20:31:18 - 00:20:32:09
A lot of them are.
00:20:32:09 - 00:20:33:07
Hal
Probably that way.
00:20:33:07 - 00:20:49:15
Jamey
Yeah. So not not not a true journalist. You're entrepreneur selling putting the deal together. And so you go, do you have this model now where you're doing Michaels and you're doing bass bass Pro shop. Yeah. And then you know around me some of that, the magazines you did.
00:20:49:17 - 00:20:51:06
Hal
So,
00:20:51:07 - 00:20:51:20
Run you through.
00:20:51:20 - 00:20:53:01
Jamey
What, some of the other magazines. Oh.
00:20:53:02 - 00:20:55:09
Hal
Oh, okay. Yeah. So, yeah. So we actually did I.
00:20:55:09 - 00:20:56:02
Think in a.
00:20:56:04 - 00:20:57:11
Hal
So that's so we said.
00:20:57:11 - 00:20:59:16
Jamey
Life. You did a pet life one pet magazine.
00:20:59:16 - 00:21:00:01
Yeah.
00:21:00:03 - 00:21:01:09
Hal
So the the.
00:21:01:10 - 00:21:02:21
Connection there was again I told you.
00:21:02:21 - 00:21:03:10
Hal
We did.
00:21:03:12 - 00:21:04:02
We didn't do.
00:21:04:02 - 00:21:05:18
Hal
Traditional stuff. We did it look.
00:21:05:18 - 00:21:07:08
Like a traditional magazine. And it was.
00:21:07:08 - 00:21:11:21
Hal
But there was a twist to it. So the twist for that was we had a relationship with.
00:21:11:21 - 00:21:14:13
The Ralston, not a huge but on the agency.
00:21:14:13 - 00:21:15:16
Hal
Side, we.
00:21:15:18 - 00:21:16:16
We knew of them. And so.
00:21:16:16 - 00:21:18:23
Hal
We, we worked to deal with.
00:21:19:00 - 00:21:21:06
Ralston Purina and.
00:21:21:06 - 00:21:24:06
Hal
We created we were doing Pet Life as a separate.
00:21:24:06 - 00:21:26:15
Publication that we owned, but then we.
00:21:26:15 - 00:21:26:21
Hal
Would.
00:21:27:01 - 00:21:27:21
00:21:27:23 - 00:21:31:03
Hal
Brand specific issues for pet.
00:21:31:03 - 00:21:35:09
Life, I mean, for Ralston Purina. So it'd be Ralston Purina Pet Life.
00:21:35:11 - 00:21:36:06
Hal
And we utilize.
00:21:36:06 - 00:21:37:17
The content from.
00:21:37:19 - 00:21:40:01
Hal
The regular issue of Pet Life, and we'd add some other.
00:21:40:04 - 00:21:43:00
Ralston Purina, information in their.
00:21:43:00 - 00:21:44:20
Hal
Editorial as well.
00:21:44:22 - 00:21:46:03
And so then we would send that.
00:21:46:03 - 00:21:49:21
Hal
Out to all of their they would we basically produce it for them, send.
00:21:49:21 - 00:21:50:21
It to them, they just buy.
00:21:50:21 - 00:21:51:07
Hal
The copies.
00:21:51:07 - 00:21:51:20
For us and they.
00:21:51:20 - 00:21:53:10
Hal
Distribute it to their list to.
00:21:53:10 - 00:21:54:08
Jamey
A built in.
00:21:54:10 - 00:21:55:17
Hal
Which were hundreds of thousands.
00:21:55:17 - 00:21:56:00
Jamey
Wow.
00:21:56:00 - 00:21:57:01
So we were sending hundreds of.
00:21:57:01 - 00:21:58:15
Hal
Thousands of copies of.
00:21:58:17 - 00:21:59:13
Or selling hundreds of.
00:21:59:13 - 00:22:00:09
Hal
Thousands of copies of.
00:22:00:09 - 00:22:02:00
Ralston Purina Pet.
00:22:02:00 - 00:22:03:12
Hal
Life to Ralston Perino.
00:22:03:15 - 00:22:11:07
Jamey
Yeah. So you kind of have found this hack of how to sell magazines without you have this built in audience.
00:22:11:09 - 00:22:20:09
Hal
Yeah, it helps to have that. You know, I said I did it with most all the publication except for Fort Worth magazine. Which is why that's a slower grow.
00:22:20:11 - 00:22:22:03
You know, everything else was national, too.
00:22:22:08 - 00:22:24:19
Jamey
Yeah. And you did. You did a cowboy.
00:22:24:21 - 00:22:27:02
We bought a magazine called Cowboys and Country.
00:22:27:02 - 00:22:28:17
Hal
Which was, if you see Cowboys.
00:22:28:17 - 00:22:30:14
And Indians magazine was very similar to that.
00:22:30:15 - 00:22:31:07
Jamey
Okay.
00:22:31:09 - 00:22:33:08
We bought that one.
00:22:33:10 - 00:22:38:14
Hal
From a gal that was, it wasn't ever really profitable for us. And we looked at selling it, but.
00:22:38:16 - 00:22:39:08
00:22:39:10 - 00:22:44:00
Jamey
What is she magazine? Well, she does she.
00:22:44:06 - 00:22:49:01
Hal
Oh, no issues. She was essay. Yeah. So it was. Shoot.
00:22:49:06 - 00:22:51:13
You remember? Well, you know, cigar aficionado.
00:22:51:15 - 00:22:56:10
Hal
If you're from. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So, I guess.
00:22:56:12 - 00:22:56:22
We need back.
00:22:56:22 - 00:22:57:21
Hal
Up a little bit, because. Yeah, we.
00:22:57:22 - 00:22:59:06
Are launching all these magazines in that.
00:22:59:06 - 00:23:05:23
Hal
Period of, like five years, I think we published a we started ten magazines.
00:23:06:01 - 00:23:06:16
Jamey
Holy cow.
00:23:06:17 - 00:23:09:09
Hal
I mean, so in five years, time magazine. So it's like every.
00:23:09:09 - 00:23:10:18
Six months we got a new magazine called.
00:23:10:19 - 00:23:11:10
Jamey
New Idea.
00:23:11:10 - 00:23:16:05
And it's and they're all national titles, and, and so in that period.
00:23:16:06 - 00:23:16:16
Hal
Right at that.
00:23:16:16 - 00:23:19:04
Five year mark Michaels.
00:23:19:04 - 00:23:20:21
Hal
Decided that.
00:23:20:21 - 00:23:23:04
They wanted to own.
00:23:23:06 - 00:23:24:09
Hal
The magazine. We were building.
00:23:24:09 - 00:23:26:20
This huge Michaels magazine and, and they.
00:23:27:00 - 00:23:28:09
Hal
Realized they were helping us build it, but.
00:23:28:09 - 00:23:29:23
They announced it.
00:23:30:01 - 00:23:31:08
Hal
So.
00:23:31:10 - 00:23:34:23
They bought it. We actually we ended up selling it.
00:23:35:00 - 00:23:36:01
Hal
To a publishing.
00:23:36:01 - 00:23:40:17
Company. Not in Fort Worth, not related to Michaels, but we continued to.
00:23:40:17 - 00:23:41:16
Hal
Publish it.
00:23:41:18 - 00:23:42:10
On a contract.
00:23:42:10 - 00:23:45:07
Hal
Basis that we sold it. We had it for five years.
00:23:45:07 - 00:23:46:21
And.
00:23:46:23 - 00:23:47:23
Hal
And we just had the licensing.
00:23:47:23 - 00:23:51:19
Agreement with Michaels. And it had a time limit, so we.
00:23:51:19 - 00:23:52:23
Hal
Couldn't do it forever.
00:23:53:01 - 00:23:53:22
And so.
00:23:54:02 - 00:23:54:06
Hal
There.
00:23:54:06 - 00:23:55:03
Was some risk that.
00:23:55:03 - 00:23:57:17
Hal
We could lose it, but they were happy with it anyway.
00:23:57:18 - 00:23:58:17
Bottom line is we.
00:23:58:17 - 00:23:59:16
Hal
Sold it for like three point.
00:23:59:16 - 00:24:00:17
6 million.
00:24:00:19 - 00:24:01:12
Hal
Wow.
00:24:01:14 - 00:24:02:01
And that was.
00:24:02:01 - 00:24:03:12
Hal
Five years after we started it.
00:24:03:15 - 00:24:05:03
Jamey
That's know that's a big win. So you're like, this.
00:24:05:03 - 00:24:05:13
Hal
Is this.
00:24:05:13 - 00:24:11:10
Better than the. Yeah. So no ad agency is going to sell for that kind of multiple.
00:24:11:14 - 00:24:12:06
Jamey
Yeah.
00:24:12:07 - 00:24:13:16
You know, just wasn't going to happen.
00:24:13:16 - 00:24:15:16
Hal
So that's why I really like the publishing side.
00:24:15:16 - 00:24:19:12
I like owning something that I can flip and sell. That.
00:24:19:12 - 00:24:27:16
Hal
Has value other than just a service business. Yeah, sure. It's hard to sell those because, you know, so much of it is the people that your that work for you.
00:24:27:16 - 00:24:29:19
And that's kind of like an ad agency.
00:24:29:21 - 00:24:31:07
Hal
It's hard to sell those.
00:24:31:09 - 00:24:31:23
Because clients.
00:24:31:23 - 00:24:33:05
Hal
Aren't they.
00:24:33:05 - 00:24:35:02
Jamey
Don't they come and they go and. Yeah.
00:24:35:02 - 00:24:36:23
Yeah. And they and their relationships. And then if.
00:24:36:23 - 00:24:40:05
Hal
You, if you take the rainmaker away.
00:24:40:06 - 00:24:42:16
You know, are they really going to be successful.
00:24:42:18 - 00:24:45:00
Hal
So they're much harder to sell.
00:24:45:02 - 00:24:45:10
And the.
00:24:45:10 - 00:24:46:00
Hal
Multiples.
00:24:46:04 - 00:24:47:19
Are much smaller.
00:24:47:21 - 00:24:53:03
Jamey
So you see y'all kind of found like we're going to build these up and sell them. That was kind of the goal.
00:24:53:05 - 00:24:59:09
Hal
I don't think we thought we were going to sell them. We didn't think that way. It's just the timing.
00:24:59:09 - 00:25:23:04
Jamey
Hey, I'm interrupting this episode because I want to share something with you that I'm really excited about. One of my biggest missions in life is to make entrepreneurship easier than it was for me. After spending over a decade building multiple businesses, I've learned some hard lessons, often the expensive way. And here's the thing I see so many talented entrepreneurs struggling with the exact same challenges that I faced.
00:25:23:06 - 00:25:44:20
Jamey
They've got great products, they've got great services, but they're stuck trying to figure out how to stand out and how to grow. They're wasting time and money on random marketing tactics. They're watching competitors get all the attention and they're feeling overwhelmed about what to focus on next. That's exactly why on my team. And I just created two incredible free resources that I genuinely wish I had when I was starting out.
00:25:44:21 - 00:26:08:06
Jamey
The first is our storytelling marketing assessment in just five minutes, it'll show you exactly where your marketing stands today and give you a clear roadmap of what to work on next. No more guessing, no more wasting time on strategies that don't work and second is our complete storytelling pathway framework. This is the exact system that we've used to help hundreds of businesses grow through the power of story.
00:26:08:06 - 00:26:29:06
Jamey
This isn't just a theory. It's practical, proven framework that shows you, step by step how to turn your business into a brand people can't stop talking about, and giving both of these away completely for free. Because I truly believe that when local businesses thrive, our whole community thrives. This isn't about making a quick buck, it's about sharing what works and helping other entrepreneurs succeed.
00:26:29:08 - 00:26:49:12
Jamey
You can get both resources right now at six at storytelling.com/free. I promise you, these are absolute game changers. They're going to help you get clear on exactly what you need to do to grow your business and give you the roadmap to make it happen. Don't miss out on these head over to six App storytelling.com/free and grab them now.
00:26:49:14 - 00:26:52:10
Jamey
All right back to our conversation.
00:26:52:12 - 00:26:54:16
Hal
But we got pretty cocky.
00:26:54:18 - 00:26:55:15
Thought we were doing pretty.
00:26:55:15 - 00:26:56:04
Hal
Good.
00:26:56:08 - 00:26:59:22
And we knew what we're doing. And then we went out and did the shoes thing.
00:27:00:00 - 00:27:01:20
Hal
Because you had asked about that.
00:27:01:22 - 00:27:05:03
In, my partner.
00:27:05:05 - 00:27:05:13
Hal
He was.
00:27:05:13 - 00:27:07:14
Running that one I was running we.
00:27:07:14 - 00:27:09:04
Hal
Had the Signature Kitchens and Bass.
00:27:09:04 - 00:27:11:08
Magazine, which I ran, and.
00:27:11:10 - 00:27:11:23
Hal
Huge cash.
00:27:11:23 - 00:27:14:00
Cow for us. And he and that had.
00:27:14:00 - 00:27:16:14
Hal
Attached to it as well. Every single page catches, every.
00:27:16:14 - 00:27:17:04
Single page.
00:27:17:04 - 00:27:21:22
Hal
Was paid. Wow. It was credibly successful.
00:27:22:00 - 00:27:22:16
And so.
00:27:22:17 - 00:27:23:11
Hal
He decided he.
00:27:23:11 - 00:27:24:06
Want we were going to do.
00:27:24:07 - 00:27:29:19
Hal
Well, we decided, we were going to do this magazine called shoes. Like Cigar Aficionado.
00:27:29:19 - 00:27:32:18
Cigar aficionado. Not a who would think that.
00:27:32:20 - 00:27:33:20
Hal
You could be.
00:27:33:20 - 00:27:34:04
Buying.
00:27:34:04 - 00:27:43:16
Hal
Cigars for $25 a cigar or more? You know, it's so that's a people that are passionate about cigars. Yeah. If you look at the advertisers.
00:27:43:16 - 00:27:45:01
In cigar aficionados.
00:27:45:05 - 00:27:45:18
Hal
It was.
00:27:45:23 - 00:27:46:22
Every major.
00:27:47:03 - 00:27:48:00
Hal
Luxury car.
00:27:48:00 - 00:27:48:13
Company.
00:27:48:15 - 00:27:49:08
Hal
Rolex.
00:27:49:08 - 00:27:50:00
Jamey
I mean, the.
00:27:50:02 - 00:27:51:17
Hal
Highest of highest of.
00:27:51:19 - 00:27:52:06
Income.
00:27:52:06 - 00:27:52:17
Hal
People.
00:27:52:21 - 00:27:53:02
Jamey
Yeah.
00:27:53:03 - 00:27:53:23
00:27:54:01 - 00:27:55:14
Hal
So that's who the advertisers were.
00:27:55:14 - 00:27:56:23
So we were going to do that.
00:27:57:01 - 00:27:58:08
Hal
With shoes because.
00:27:58:10 - 00:28:00:08
Jamey
In towards women.
00:28:00:10 - 00:28:00:23
Hal
They'll pay.
00:28:00:23 - 00:28:01:12
1500.
00:28:01:12 - 00:28:02:13
Hal
Bucks for a.
00:28:02:13 - 00:28:04:02
Pair of Louis Vuitton, right? I mean that's.
00:28:04:02 - 00:28:06:12
Hal
Easy. That's. So we go, hey, this.
00:28:06:12 - 00:28:07:07
Is a very similar.
00:28:07:07 - 00:28:09:01
Hal
Industry. They'll pay a.
00:28:09:01 - 00:28:11:02
Lot of money. And if we're.
00:28:11:07 - 00:28:11:22
Hal
If we're.
00:28:12:00 - 00:28:13:20
Bringing in the eyeballs.
00:28:13:22 - 00:28:14:14
Hal
Of all these.
00:28:14:14 - 00:28:16:05
Women, people.
00:28:16:05 - 00:28:18:14
Hal
Will buy that advertisers. Why that? Because I can't.
00:28:18:14 - 00:28:19:10
Reach that audience.
00:28:19:10 - 00:28:21:19
Hal
Many other places. Ultra ultra.
00:28:21:19 - 00:28:26:07
High end. The problem is we didn't have a tie in and you.
00:28:26:07 - 00:28:27:00
Jamey
Didn't have the built in.
00:28:27:00 - 00:28:28:18
Hal
Distribution. We had the.
00:28:28:19 - 00:28:29:20
We could put it on the newspaper.
00:28:29:23 - 00:28:33:20
Jamey
The the meaning, the way like Michael's had all these good every register.
00:28:33:20 - 00:28:35:11
Hal
Right. So we called it we were shoes.
00:28:35:11 - 00:28:37:12
Magazine and we didn't have any.
00:28:37:14 - 00:28:38:02
Hal
You know.
00:28:38:04 - 00:28:40:01
It wasn't Neiman Marcus shoes.
00:28:40:03 - 00:28:43:16
Hal
It was just shoes.
00:28:43:18 - 00:28:45:13
And we had to have a.
00:28:45:15 - 00:28:46:20
Hal
We got a post office.
00:28:46:20 - 00:28:50:11
Box in New York, you know, and we had, like, a, like, one little, tiny little.
00:28:50:11 - 00:28:51:22
Hal
Office and.
00:28:52:00 - 00:28:56:11
And so, but it's expensive. And so we had to kind of fake it till you make it.
00:28:56:12 - 00:28:57:03
Jamey
Yeah.
00:28:57:05 - 00:28:57:23
We never made it.
00:28:58:03 - 00:28:59:07
Jamey
Okay, so.
00:28:59:09 - 00:28:59:16
Hal
It didn't.
00:28:59:16 - 00:29:00:05
Jamey
Go well.
00:29:00:06 - 00:29:02:15
We ended up we ended up selling it.
00:29:02:17 - 00:29:05:08
Hal
Like, right before we were about.
00:29:05:08 - 00:29:06:13
To put it down.
00:29:06:15 - 00:29:09:11
Hal
And we luckily sold it before. Okay, put it down.
00:29:09:12 - 00:29:10:01
They didn't know.
00:29:10:01 - 00:29:11:03
Hal
That. But if they.
00:29:11:03 - 00:29:12:14
Didn't buy it, we weren't going to continue to.
00:29:12:14 - 00:29:16:05
Hal
Publish it. So, so that.
00:29:16:06 - 00:29:16:23
And then and.
00:29:16:23 - 00:29:18:10
Hal
We did like I said, we did.
00:29:18:14 - 00:29:21:04
Like in five years, like ten magazines and.
00:29:21:06 - 00:29:21:15
Hal
00:29:21:18 - 00:29:22:11
We had another.
00:29:22:11 - 00:29:23:17
Hal
Bass.
00:29:23:18 - 00:29:24:05
Fishing.
00:29:24:05 - 00:29:26:05
Hal
Magazine.
00:29:26:07 - 00:29:27:02
And we did.
00:29:27:05 - 00:29:30:01
Hal
We did, of course, like the Ralston period. Now, we did a.
00:29:30:03 - 00:29:32:01
00:29:32:03 - 00:29:33:06
Hal
A.
00:29:33:08 - 00:29:36:01
Automotive magazine tied into.
00:29:36:03 - 00:29:38:04
Hal
A chief auto parts.
00:29:38:06 - 00:29:38:14
Jamey
Okay?
00:29:38:18 - 00:29:40:20
They're not so passionate.
00:29:40:22 - 00:29:41:19
Jamey
Auto parts people.
00:29:41:23 - 00:29:42:23
Yeah, they're not as.
00:29:42:23 - 00:29:46:05
Hal
Passionate about, so that didn't work. Okay.
00:29:46:07 - 00:29:47:14
But. Yeah. And then.
00:29:47:16 - 00:29:48:06
Hal
So we.
00:29:48:08 - 00:29:49:13
We we did a lot of magazines.
00:29:49:13 - 00:29:51:05
Hal
We did signature kitchens, bars.
00:29:51:09 - 00:29:53:22
And that one.
00:29:54:00 - 00:29:56:12
Hal
Really cool because it was high.
00:29:56:12 - 00:29:57:00
End luxury.
00:29:57:00 - 00:29:57:14
Hal
So if you looked.
00:29:57:14 - 00:29:59:00
Back in back in that time, if you.
00:29:59:00 - 00:29:59:08
Hal
Looked at a.
00:29:59:08 - 00:30:04:00
Kitchen and bath magazine, Better Homes and Gardens would do them and they'd have.
00:30:04:00 - 00:30:05:09
Hal
2 or 3 pictures.
00:30:05:11 - 00:30:06:10
And they'd be like.
00:30:06:12 - 00:30:07:14
Hal
2400 words.
00:30:07:19 - 00:30:18:15
Talking all about it. You're in the homebuilding business. And who controls the decision with most of the design of the house? The female in the house.
00:30:18:15 - 00:30:19:21
Hal
Right.
00:30:19:23 - 00:30:22:05
So central kitchen, the buyers.
00:30:22:07 - 00:30:25:10
Hal
It was they don't care about all the copy.
00:30:25:10 - 00:30:25:21
They want to.
00:30:26:01 - 00:30:27:15
Hal
They want to switch cabinets. Yeah, I.
00:30:27:15 - 00:30:29:03
Want to have that countertop. I want.
00:30:29:03 - 00:30:32:13
Hal
That sink. I want that refrigerator and those hardwoods I want.
00:30:32:15 - 00:30:36:13
You know, and so they come into the design of the magazine pictures and they say.
00:30:36:17 - 00:30:38:13
Hal
This is what I like, right?
00:30:38:15 - 00:30:39:15
I'm sure you've done that with.
00:30:39:21 - 00:30:41:04
Jamey
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
00:30:41:06 - 00:30:42:13
And so this is the kitchen I want.
00:30:42:13 - 00:30:46:09
Jamey
Yeah. Now it's Pinterest, you know. No Pinterest. But by then you're clipping up.
00:30:46:09 - 00:30:52:14
Hal
Oh, yeah, you're pulling out of, So, we flipped that and we said, let's just, let's do.
00:30:52:16 - 00:30:53:22
Jamey
Picture Heavy.
00:30:54:00 - 00:30:58:17
Hal
Wheel just every other page. So we'll do two pages. It will have a big picture that takes over three quarters.
00:30:58:17 - 00:30:59:13
And Payson will have two.
00:30:59:13 - 00:31:00:06
Hal
Other pictures.
00:31:00:07 - 00:31:00:23
And then we're going to.
00:31:00:23 - 00:31:02:00
Hal
Have just the.
00:31:02:00 - 00:31:02:17
Listing.
00:31:02:17 - 00:31:03:23
Hal
Of what all the products are.
00:31:03:23 - 00:31:05:01
That's what they want. They want to know what.
00:31:05:01 - 00:31:06:02
Hal
Refrigerator is that?
00:31:06:07 - 00:31:08:08
What brand cabinetry and countertop is that.
00:31:08:08 - 00:31:09:02
Hal
So we listed all of.
00:31:09:02 - 00:31:11:04
Those things on there and.
00:31:11:06 - 00:31:12:19
Hal
It was a huge success.
00:31:12:19 - 00:31:21:20
Put it on the new stand. This is everything we put on the newsstand. And it was selling for 695, which was higher than any other magazine.
00:31:21:23 - 00:31:22:06
Hal
Oh, really?
00:31:22:06 - 00:31:23:13
Nobody else was putting magazines out.
00:31:23:13 - 00:31:24:12
Hal
At that price, but it was a very.
00:31:24:12 - 00:31:26:04
High end kitchen math magazine, like really.
00:31:26:04 - 00:31:29:18
Hal
High end. And so, it was great.
00:31:29:20 - 00:31:36:09
And we're making tons of money and, and the newsstand sale three was amazing. And my partner goes, well.
00:31:36:11 - 00:31:37:09
Hal
I think we can get more.
00:31:37:15 - 00:31:39:17
And I go, six. And if I do, no one's selling anything more.
00:31:39:18 - 00:31:41:20
Hal
695 I mean.
00:31:41:22 - 00:31:42:14
Time Warner.
00:31:42:14 - 00:31:43:11
Hal
There's all these.
00:31:43:13 - 00:31:45:22
Magazine publishers. They're not they're not doing that.
00:31:46:00 - 00:31:47:14
Hal
You know, they're pretty smart.
00:31:47:16 - 00:31:48:00
You know, if.
00:31:48:00 - 00:31:51:07
Hal
They were if we could do it, they probably would. And so.
00:31:51:07 - 00:31:51:19
He and I argued.
00:31:51:19 - 00:31:56:21
Hal
About it. And so I go, okay, let's do a bet. I bet you that.
00:31:56:23 - 00:31:59:00
We can't sell it for 990.
00:31:59:00 - 00:32:02:11
Hal
Five. If we do, we'll have less sales.
00:32:02:16 - 00:32:04:01
So one issue, we.
00:32:04:01 - 00:32:05:01
Hal
Put out two.
00:32:05:01 - 00:32:10:18
Versions, exact same magazine. One wasn't my 95 and had a different one then. Other one was a 695.
00:32:10:20 - 00:32:11:13
Jamey
Same cover.
00:32:11:16 - 00:32:12:18
Same same everything.
00:32:12:18 - 00:32:14:00
Hal
Except for the price.
00:32:14:02 - 00:32:15:10
Jamey
Was it wasn't bigger.
00:32:15:12 - 00:32:17:17
Hal
Well, it's exact same magazine.
00:32:17:18 - 00:32:20:09
And what happened? The 995.
00:32:20:09 - 00:32:21:12
Hal
Outsold the six 90,000.
00:32:21:12 - 00:32:25:23
Jamey
No way. Because people think they're getting some sort of luxury. I don't think it wasn't that.
00:32:25:23 - 00:32:28:16
Hal
I think they didn't care. It wasn't like it was. Oh.
00:32:28:16 - 00:32:30:16
Jamey
So when like side by side on the. No.
00:32:30:17 - 00:32:32:23
On the same, they didn't even know they were selling it. Right.
00:32:32:23 - 00:32:36:02
Hal
So the point is, they bought it.
00:32:36:04 - 00:32:38:14
Jamey
It was priced agnostics. They were just not into it.
00:32:38:19 - 00:32:42:18
Hal
Right. So so then we did it again.
00:32:42:20 - 00:32:47:21
And 1095 then we did again. 1295 and then we did it 1495.
00:32:48:03 - 00:32:48:18
Hal
And guess what?
00:32:48:18 - 00:32:51:02
Go there. Look on the newsstand today, Time Warner in every.
00:32:51:02 - 00:32:51:15
Hal
Other.
00:32:51:17 - 00:32:58:22
Kitchen or home magazine that's on the newsstand. Ten 1295 no way. So they you know, we didn't know we were doing.
00:32:58:22 - 00:33:02:03
Hal
We just Fort Worth guys that are.
00:33:02:05 - 00:33:02:21
You know.
00:33:02:23 - 00:33:12:10
Jamey
Figuring it playing, playing around with. Yeah, we're just playing. So this at this time, are you making more money from actually selling it? Like, do you make money selling or are you making money from ads, or is this just kind of a common selling?
00:33:12:10 - 00:33:12:23
Hal
You mean selling the.
00:33:12:23 - 00:33:13:10
Businesses.
00:33:13:15 - 00:33:17:04
Jamey
You know, selling the Mac? Like I'm buying a 1295 magazine.
00:33:17:06 - 00:33:19:04
Hal
Right. Those are. Yeah.
00:33:19:04 - 00:33:21:19
You make money with magazines.
00:33:21:21 - 00:33:24:03
Hal
Either moving houses or you sell.
00:33:24:03 - 00:33:26:18
Them on, the newsstand value.
00:33:26:18 - 00:33:30:03
Hal
Or advertising or subscriptions. So it's three options, right?
00:33:30:05 - 00:33:31:22
Jamey
But what's making you the most money on this.
00:33:32:03 - 00:33:33:02
Depends on the magazine.
00:33:33:05 - 00:33:33:12
Hal
Sales.
00:33:33:12 - 00:33:35:02
Your kitchen, the mass newsstand.
00:33:35:08 - 00:33:37:06
Hal
Okay, people, once you buy your.
00:33:37:06 - 00:33:42:08
Kitchen, you don't want to read about kitchens anymore, right? So that's not a subscription product.
00:33:42:08 - 00:33:43:11
Jamey
Okay.
00:33:43:13 - 00:33:44:15
Hal
Michaels is a subscription.
00:33:44:15 - 00:33:48:18
Jamey
Product because they're like, I want to see the new. Yeah crochet.
00:33:48:19 - 00:33:51:11
Hal
You. But you also it's also a great new stand product too.
00:33:51:17 - 00:33:53:03
So that one did both okay.
00:33:53:05 - 00:33:54:03
Jamey
Right.
00:33:54:05 - 00:33:55:22
Advertising really though for the most it's.
00:33:56:03 - 00:33:56:11
Hal
Usually.
00:33:56:11 - 00:33:57:04
Really strong.
00:33:57:04 - 00:34:04:07
Hal
That's because if they're doing well in circulation, you can sell more ads or more use copies you have the higher you can price your advertising.
00:34:04:09 - 00:34:05:05
00:34:05:07 - 00:34:07:22
Hal
So signature kitchen, the bars, cash.
00:34:07:22 - 00:34:10:16
Cow on the new stand. And also.
00:34:10:16 - 00:34:12:03
Hal
As a subscriber.
00:34:12:05 - 00:34:14:00
Brought in. Oh, I'm sorry, not.
00:34:14:01 - 00:34:14:12
Hal
Subscriber.
00:34:14:12 - 00:34:18:16
On the newsstand since your kitchen and advertise. And then.
00:34:18:18 - 00:34:25:22
Hal
You know, it just depends on the product. So, bass Pro Shops, the Outdoor world magazine. That's a that's a big subscription one.
00:34:26:00 - 00:34:30:21
And on the newsstand. And you walked into an ad agency and said, I'm with Bass Pro Shops.
00:34:30:23 - 00:34:32:03
Hal
They're going to take your call.
00:34:32:04 - 00:34:34:08
Yeah, I want to go sell a, you know.
00:34:34:08 - 00:34:36:17
Hal
A buck call.
00:34:36:19 - 00:34:39:01
And you say your Bass Pro shops, they're much.
00:34:39:01 - 00:34:39:14
Hal
More likely to.
00:34:39:14 - 00:34:40:09
Buy ads from you.
00:34:40:09 - 00:34:41:03
Hal
Yeah, right.
00:34:41:03 - 00:34:42:06
Than than not.
00:34:42:06 - 00:34:44:20
Jamey
Yeah. So you're in your 20s doing this 30.
00:34:44:21 - 00:34:46:03
I'm in my upper 20s.
00:34:46:07 - 00:35:00:07
Jamey
Upper 20s and just. You're starting magazines and. Yeah, flipping magazines. It's going. Sounds like it's going well and you'll sell like. And then what what happened next. Because and this was Magnolia, right.
00:35:00:07 - 00:35:01:15
This was the Magnolia media Group.
00:35:01:16 - 00:35:05:16
Hal
This is my and I left, you know, I guess in.
00:35:05:18 - 00:35:06:10
91, I.
00:35:06:10 - 00:35:08:01
Hal
Think it was we.
00:35:08:03 - 00:35:11:04
We left the company and started with Michaels and then the.
00:35:11:05 - 00:35:11:21
Hal
Bass Pro Shops.
00:35:11:21 - 00:35:13:07
Outdoor world was a concept.
00:35:13:10 - 00:35:14:21
Hal
Yeah.
00:35:14:23 - 00:35:17:01
And then that he and I.
00:35:17:03 - 00:35:19:20
Hal
Started all those other publications.
00:35:19:22 - 00:35:20:03
And.
00:35:20:03 - 00:35:22:08
Hal
So I guess it was.
00:35:22:10 - 00:35:22:22
90.
00:35:22:22 - 00:35:26:07
Hal
Seven, we started I, we.
00:35:26:09 - 00:35:27:02
1997.
00:35:27:02 - 00:35:28:12
Hal
They're building Bass Hall.
00:35:28:14 - 00:35:28:23
00:35:29:00 - 00:35:31:20
Hal
And we.
00:35:31:22 - 00:35:32:10
We say, you know.
00:35:32:10 - 00:35:33:15
Hal
What.
00:35:33:17 - 00:35:35:06
Why don't we do something with them.
00:35:35:06 - 00:35:37:08
Hal
Because this is like for Fort Worth bass Hall was.
00:35:37:08 - 00:35:37:21
Jamey
A big deal.
00:35:37:21 - 00:35:38:18
Is humongous.
00:35:38:18 - 00:35:39:15
Hal
Huge. Yeah.
00:35:39:15 - 00:35:43:05
And we were downtown in the Tandy building.
00:35:43:07 - 00:35:44:11
Hal
And so we were like.
00:35:44:11 - 00:35:45:06
You know, let's.
00:35:45:07 - 00:35:48:14
Hal
We, we approached the basses about doing a, a product.
00:35:48:16 - 00:35:51:05
A magazine, kind of a book magazine product.
00:35:51:07 - 00:35:55:09
Hal
That followed the build of the, structure all the.
00:35:55:09 - 00:35:57:08
Way from, you know, when that started to the end.
00:35:57:08 - 00:35:59:01
Hal
We photograph it all the way through.
00:35:59:01 - 00:36:00:20
Jamey
And it was just about bass. It was just bass all.
00:36:00:20 - 00:36:05:21
It was basically a Niagara. But talking about the creation of, And then we would.
00:36:05:21 - 00:36:07:01
Hal
Have it, you know.
00:36:07:03 - 00:36:08:09
We'd sell it on the newsstand, but it.
00:36:08:09 - 00:36:09:01
Hal
Would be a short.
00:36:09:02 - 00:36:14:01
You know, like a window. And that really wasn't a profit center much for us, but.
00:36:14:03 - 00:36:17:11
Hal
It was just we'd sell advertising to it.
00:36:17:13 - 00:36:18:06
And there was a little bit of.
00:36:18:06 - 00:36:18:18
Hal
Twist, because if.
00:36:18:18 - 00:36:25:10
You wanted to be in, if you were a, a subcontractor building bass all, do you want to support.
00:36:25:12 - 00:36:26:06
Hal
This?
00:36:26:08 - 00:36:26:15
I mean.
00:36:26:15 - 00:36:28:06
Hal
Bass Hall, they just wrote you a check.
00:36:28:06 - 00:36:29:06
For $3 million.
00:36:29:06 - 00:36:30:13
Hal
To do.
00:36:30:15 - 00:36:31:01
Some.
00:36:31:01 - 00:36:31:15
Hal
Construction.
00:36:31:18 - 00:36:36:00
Yeah. And, like. And then we're calling up and ask him for five grand to run an.
00:36:36:00 - 00:36:41:02
Hal
Ad to say, we were happy to be a part of this. Right. So there was a little bit of a tie there.
00:36:41:02 - 00:36:42:14
Jamey
Okay. That's more.
00:36:42:16 - 00:36:44:01
And so.
00:36:44:03 - 00:36:45:05
Hal
We produced that.
00:36:45:05 - 00:36:46:08
And.
00:36:46:10 - 00:36:48:10
Hal
We sold. And this is.
00:36:48:12 - 00:36:48:23
00:36:49:05 - 00:36:49:15
Hal
What.
00:36:49:17 - 00:36:51:11
27 years.
00:36:51:11 - 00:36:53:11
Hal
Ago? We sold three.
00:36:53:11 - 00:36:54:07
Hundred thousand dollars in.
00:36:54:07 - 00:36:55:07
Hal
Advertising.
00:36:55:09 - 00:36:56:20
Jamey
Wow. And that is that a lot?
00:36:56:22 - 00:36:57:19
Hal
That's a lot. Okay.
00:36:57:19 - 00:37:04:07
It's just for one issue. Yeah. I mean, it's yeah, for one issue. I've. I've never sold $300,000 in one issue in any magazine.
00:37:04:07 - 00:37:09:22
Hal
Okay. Right. So, yeah, it's a lot. So $300,000.
00:37:10:00 - 00:37:10:10
So y'all.
00:37:10:10 - 00:37:11:10
Jamey
Are kind of freaking out like.
00:37:11:10 - 00:37:18:07
Hal
This was. We were freaking out. This was a good idea. Five and yeah, this is cool. This this this did more than what we actually thought it was going to go.
00:37:18:10 - 00:37:20:20
Jamey
And then people did people buy the magazine too?
00:37:20:22 - 00:37:21:16
Hal
Yeah, but it wasn't.
00:37:21:16 - 00:37:22:16
As much of that.
00:37:22:16 - 00:37:23:10
Hal
It was advertised.
00:37:23:10 - 00:37:24:08
That was just an ad play.
00:37:24:14 - 00:37:26:03
Hal
Right. So people.
00:37:26:05 - 00:37:28:06
Wanted to support.
00:37:28:08 - 00:37:30:00
Hal
That's all they wanted to support the.
00:37:30:00 - 00:37:30:20
Bass was they wanted to be a.
00:37:30:20 - 00:37:33:11
Hal
Part of this project. It's huge for Fort Worth.
00:37:33:12 - 00:37:34:04
And so.
00:37:34:04 - 00:37:35:12
Hal
They advertise.
00:37:35:13 - 00:37:36:01
And so.
00:37:36:01 - 00:37:37:04
Hal
We said, gosh, if we can get.
00:37:37:04 - 00:37:38:00
300,000.
00:37:38:00 - 00:37:40:09
Hal
Dollars out of people for this.
00:37:40:11 - 00:37:41:21
Maybe it's time.
00:37:41:23 - 00:37:42:13
Hal
Fort Worth had.
00:37:42:13 - 00:37:43:18
Its own magazine.
00:37:43:19 - 00:37:47:10
Jamey
And that wasn't a thing. No newspapers, Star-Telegram.
00:37:47:11 - 00:37:51:22
Star-Telegram. The behemoth. Yeah, I know you had rich on,
00:37:52:00 - 00:37:54:21
Hal
You know, it was a whole, whole different ballgame.
00:37:54:21 - 00:37:55:13
And.
00:37:55:15 - 00:37:56:13
Hal
You know, they were they.
00:37:56:13 - 00:37:56:16
Were.
00:37:56:16 - 00:37:59:05
Hal
Massive. They were one of the top.
00:37:59:07 - 00:37:59:21
20.
00:37:59:21 - 00:38:01:07
Hal
Or 30.
00:38:01:09 - 00:38:04:21
Magazines in the country. And, and, you know.
00:38:04:22 - 00:38:08:05
Hal
It was just two different products. Completely. They had tried a.
00:38:08:05 - 00:38:12:06
City magazine a couple of times, like, in the Star-Telegram had a.
00:38:12:06 - 00:38:12:19
Hal
Product called.
00:38:12:19 - 00:38:13:18
Indulge.
00:38:13:20 - 00:38:14:19
Jamey
Yeah, I remember indulge.
00:38:15:00 - 00:38:15:07
Hal
Yeah.
00:38:15:10 - 00:38:16:11
So indulge.
00:38:16:11 - 00:38:16:18
Hal
Was.
00:38:16:18 - 00:38:22:07
The city magazine kind of. Yeah, it was a high end, glossy magazine product.
00:38:22:07 - 00:38:24:21
Hal
That the Star-Telegram produced.
00:38:24:23 - 00:38:25:04
So.
00:38:25:07 - 00:38:29:01
Jamey
But y'all were like, let's start of a city magazine. And no one had really done that before.
00:38:29:02 - 00:38:30:04
No one had done it.
00:38:30:05 - 00:38:33:18
Jamey
Other cities doing it or other cities do. Yeah.
00:38:33:21 - 00:38:35:12
Hal
Oh, yeah. So one of our.
00:38:35:13 - 00:38:36:23
We're a member of City Regional Magazine.
00:38:36:23 - 00:38:40:18
Hal
Association, which is a really great.
00:38:40:19 - 00:38:45:09
Organization. And, you know, I'm the the Rainmaker guy, and I.
00:38:45:11 - 00:38:47:10
Hal
I like shortcuts and.
00:38:47:12 - 00:38:47:21
You know.
00:38:47:21 - 00:38:48:06
Hal
Instead of.
00:38:48:06 - 00:38:49:18
Research and development.
00:38:49:20 - 00:38:54:17
Hal
We like to rip off and duplicate, right. So city, is somebody doing.
00:38:54:17 - 00:38:56:15
Something in Boston or Philly and it's working.
00:38:56:16 - 00:38:57:06
Jamey
Yeah. That's good.
00:38:57:06 - 00:38:57:13
Hal
Dude, we're.
00:38:57:13 - 00:39:05:06
Talking to each other at a conference in, you know, in Colorado. I want that. I don't steal it from you because. Oh, no, you can.
00:39:05:06 - 00:39:06:02
Hal
Do it exactly like.
00:39:06:02 - 00:39:07:19
Theirs. And, you know.
00:39:07:19 - 00:39:10:00
Hal
What are the chances you're gonna get somebody from Philly.
00:39:10:01 - 00:39:10:15
That's in Fort.
00:39:10:15 - 00:39:12:02
Hal
Worth that goes, hey, this.
00:39:12:02 - 00:39:14:17
Looks like the thing that we saw in Philly. No one does that.
00:39:14:20 - 00:39:18:00
Hal
Yeah, we did a lot. We still do a lot of that with CRM.
00:39:18:02 - 00:39:22:15
Jamey
That's cool. Yeah. So y'all launched Fort Worth magazine officially in 90.
00:39:22:16 - 00:39:23:18
Eight of 98.
00:39:23:19 - 00:39:25:01
Jamey
Summer 98.
00:39:25:03 - 00:39:26:01
Hal
Yep.
00:39:26:03 - 00:39:30:02
Jamey
And it was received well. It went well.
00:39:30:04 - 00:39:34:05
Hal
Yes. It was I mean, it wasn't like,
00:39:34:06 - 00:39:35:18
Jamey
You know, like, were people excited about it?
00:39:35:18 - 00:39:38:13
Hal
Oh, yeah. Yeah, it was, it was, but you know, they.
00:39:38:13 - 00:39:41:00
Did have indulge and,
00:39:41:01 - 00:39:42:18
Jamey
But for the people love Fort Worth.
00:39:42:18 - 00:39:45:10
Hal
They do in most cities love their city. But.
00:39:45:12 - 00:39:46:06
You know, I don't know that.
00:39:46:06 - 00:39:48:05
Hal
People from Detroit.
00:39:48:07 - 00:39:48:20
Even though they.
00:39:48:20 - 00:39:51:08
Hal
Have a great city, one of the best, actually, are they.
00:39:51:11 - 00:39:52:13
Jamey
Probably love it now.
00:39:52:19 - 00:39:58:09
Hal
Better. Yeah. But they went through. Yeah. I'd much rather be fort worthy, and it just feels like, when people.
00:39:58:09 - 00:40:00:01
Come here, they go. Man, I love it.
00:40:00:06 - 00:40:05:09
Hal
Yeah. That's it. I told you, I watch Rich's podcast.
00:40:05:11 - 00:40:07:00
And I guess he was one of your first ones or.
00:40:07:00 - 00:40:08:00
Hal
Anyway, I saw that.
00:40:08:00 - 00:40:09:11
Jamey
Rich. Rich from the business press.
00:40:09:13 - 00:40:13:07
Hal
Yeah, from the business press. He was a star telegram before.
00:40:13:09 - 00:40:13:23
And.
00:40:14:03 - 00:40:14:11
Hal
He was.
00:40:14:11 - 00:40:17:12
Talking about when he came to star. Telegram like everybody from the.
00:40:17:12 - 00:40:18:02
Hal
Papers that he.
00:40:18:02 - 00:40:19:14
Worked with wanted to come to Fort Worth.
00:40:19:17 - 00:40:20:06
Jamey
Yeah.
00:40:20:08 - 00:40:20:16
Hal
Right.
00:40:20:16 - 00:40:33:21
Jamey
Because as people, people loved it. My my wife, took, to took a I think she's like a just PR. She was in town with visit Fort Worth, from New York to the rodeo.
00:40:33:23 - 00:40:35:00
Hal
00:40:35:02 - 00:40:52:14
Jamey
Like this past Friday. And so. But the the girl from New York was like. And like Melissa was introducing to people and they were. And she was like, I can't believe how much people love their city here. It's so crazy. She was like, everybody, you know, she's like, I'm a publicist from New York doing a story on a on Fort Worth.
00:40:52:14 - 00:41:07:00
Jamey
And everyone was like, anyway, she was she was blown away at how much people loved. Yeah, love, love, love the city. But you. So you okay? We got stuck in magazines here in front of us. And so you've you had you have the original magazine. I do the first issue.
00:41:07:01 - 00:41:10:02
Hal
Yeah. It's the one that's actually. Yeah. This one. Yeah.
00:41:10:04 - 00:41:11:13
Jamey
This is the first one.
00:41:11:15 - 00:41:12:07
So you'll notice it.
00:41:12:07 - 00:41:12:12
Hal
Has.
00:41:12:12 - 00:41:14:09
Texas on there.
00:41:14:11 - 00:41:15:01
Hal
That's the name.
00:41:15:02 - 00:41:15:12
Jamey
For.
00:41:15:12 - 00:41:17:04
Hal
Texas. So we had.
00:41:17:04 - 00:41:22:01
An idea of doing because Austin didn't have a good magazine San Antonio didn't and.
00:41:22:04 - 00:41:22:14
Hal
Waco.
00:41:22:14 - 00:41:24:00
Didn't. So our our concept.
00:41:24:00 - 00:41:26:12
Hal
Was hey, let's do Fort Worth, Texas, Waco, Texas.
00:41:26:12 - 00:41:28:13
Austin, Texas. Antonio, Texas.
00:41:28:15 - 00:41:30:13
Hal
So they would all have that Texas part, right?
00:41:30:14 - 00:41:32:21
Jamey
Oh, so you were going to go doing these in other cities, right.
00:41:32:21 - 00:41:34:21
Hal
So the idea of the Texas.
00:41:34:21 - 00:41:37:09
Was let's make it different and we can tie.
00:41:37:09 - 00:41:37:20
Jamey
It all in with.
00:41:37:20 - 00:41:38:23
Hal
That. Yeah. We can we can.
00:41:38:23 - 00:41:39:07
Make.
00:41:39:07 - 00:41:40:13
Hal
It a.
00:41:40:15 - 00:41:40:19
You.
00:41:40:19 - 00:41:42:19
Hal
Know, a product of home cities.
00:41:42:19 - 00:41:43:02
Jamey
A home.
00:41:43:02 - 00:41:50:16
Supply off on that. So, we ended up dropping it. So you can tell that someone's been a long time subscriber.
00:41:50:18 - 00:41:51:22
Hal
Or advertiser.
00:41:52:00 - 00:41:53:13
When when they referred to.
00:41:53:13 - 00:41:55:20
Hal
Fort Worth Magazine as Fort Worth, Texas magazine.
00:41:56:01 - 00:41:56:17
Jamey
Okay.
00:41:56:17 - 00:41:59:07
Hal
And there's still a lot of faithful out there that do.
00:41:59:09 - 00:42:02:21
Jamey
Look how cool the photos are. You can tell the photos are film.
00:42:02:23 - 00:42:04:11
Hal
Yes. That's right. That's pretty good.
00:42:04:13 - 00:42:10:21
Jamey
Yeah. They have that kind of graininess to how fun. And then this is the best haul.
00:42:10:23 - 00:42:12:06
Yes. That's one that.
00:42:12:08 - 00:42:14:18
Jamey
The business has had hundred thousand dollars in ads.
00:42:14:21 - 00:42:17:04
Hal
Yes.
00:42:17:06 - 00:42:22:17
Jamey
How cool is that. And so did you do the San Antonio.
00:42:22:19 - 00:42:23:15
Never got around.
00:42:23:16 - 00:42:25:18
Hal
That. You know, life.
00:42:25:18 - 00:42:27:17
Happens and,
00:42:27:19 - 00:42:29:16
Jamey
Y'all slowed your pace a little bit. It's a little.
00:42:29:18 - 00:42:30:23
Hal
Bit. Yeah. So, like, that's that's.
00:42:30:23 - 00:42:35:04
Kind of like where I'm like, you know.
00:42:35:06 - 00:42:35:13
Hal
You know, I.
00:42:35:16 - 00:42:39:07
Was doing ten magazines in five years. Every time you open a magazine.
00:42:39:07 - 00:42:43:04
Hal
It's like starting a company. It's not like you can just plug it and play.
00:42:43:04 - 00:42:45:04
Jamey
Which is like having a baby. And it's a lot of work.
00:42:45:10 - 00:42:47:08
Hal
It's a lot of work and a lot of work.
00:42:47:08 - 00:42:50:14
And you know, it's not like we were starting.
00:42:50:16 - 00:42:51:08
Hal
Like we were.
00:42:51:08 - 00:42:52:00
Doing.
00:42:52:01 - 00:42:52:10
Hal
Like.
00:42:52:10 - 00:42:57:09
City magazines and there were all city magazines. We were doing opportunistic things and we're doing it.
00:42:57:11 - 00:43:00:03
Jamey
And you're having to find, like, journalist who can write about fish.
00:43:00:03 - 00:43:01:02
Hal
You got to go. Yeah.
00:43:01:04 - 00:43:06:17
Jamey
I mean, you two are into lead crocheting, right? Or into shoes or into.
00:43:06:19 - 00:43:07:01
Hal
Yeah.
00:43:07:01 - 00:43:08:00
Or somebody that knows how to.
00:43:08:00 - 00:43:09:05
Hal
Tie special.
00:43:09:05 - 00:43:13:13
Fish knots and, you know, hunting and fishing experts and, you.
00:43:13:13 - 00:43:15:06
Hal
Know, pet experts.
00:43:15:06 - 00:43:17:08
Jamey
So you're having to go recruit people every single time.
00:43:17:14 - 00:43:18:01
Hal
Yeah.
00:43:18:03 - 00:43:22:15
So it's not it's not a plug and play for sure. And even though.
00:43:22:17 - 00:43:23:01
Hal
It was.
00:43:23:01 - 00:43:26:04
Helpful and actually the only reason we were able to start for this magazine at the time and be.
00:43:26:04 - 00:43:30:18
Hal
Successful is because we had the parent company, because we had.
00:43:30:18 - 00:43:31:20
The accounting department.
00:43:31:20 - 00:43:33:06
Jamey
There's some economies of scale.
00:43:33:10 - 00:43:34:06
It's company scale.
00:43:34:06 - 00:43:35:19
Hal
Yeah, exactly.
00:43:35:21 - 00:43:44:17
Jamey
And so but so that that was the for the magazine was a turning point for you all. It's no, I mean, that's what you're that's that's your world now.
00:43:44:17 - 00:43:46:11
Hal
Yes. It was it.
00:43:46:11 - 00:43:48:03
Was not my world then. It wasn't.
00:43:48:03 - 00:43:48:20
Hal
It was it was a.
00:43:48:20 - 00:43:50:00
Speck on the.
00:43:50:02 - 00:43:50:22
Jamey
It was okay.
00:43:51:00 - 00:43:51:20
It was a matter of fact.
00:43:51:20 - 00:44:00:15
Hal
We did it because we thought the reason we did it is we felt like if we didn't do it, somebody else may, and we would regret it. We are.
00:44:00:16 - 00:44:10:01
We're publishing ten magazines in five years, national magazines. And, and then somebody else comes out and poses for the magazine, and now they've come out with the first one.
00:44:10:03 - 00:44:11:03
Jamey
Yeah. You're not let them do it.
00:44:11:09 - 00:44:12:15
And so we said, you know what, let's.
00:44:12:15 - 00:44:14:22
Hal
Do this before they do it. And Fort Worth was growing.
00:44:15:00 - 00:44:15:10
I mean, we were.
00:44:15:15 - 00:44:16:16
Hal
But we were.
00:44:16:18 - 00:44:17:21
You know, we were not a fraction.
00:44:17:21 - 00:44:19:10
Hal
Of the size we are today.
00:44:19:12 - 00:44:22:14
And so, you know, Fort Worth aren't we were downtown to anything you could.
00:44:22:14 - 00:44:24:00
Hal
Look at at 530.
00:44:24:02 - 00:44:27:22
And there was nobody on the street. 530 on Friday afternoon.
00:44:28:00 - 00:44:29:18
Hal
It's different today. So back.
00:44:29:18 - 00:44:31:17
Then, it wasn't like people were.
00:44:31:18 - 00:44:32:07
Hal
We didn't we.
00:44:32:07 - 00:44:34:06
Had $300,000 sold in that one product.
00:44:34:06 - 00:44:37:17
Hal
Right. The baseball book. But, we still.
00:44:37:19 - 00:44:39:19
It wasn't a home run necessarily.
00:44:39:20 - 00:44:43:12
Hal
But, so it was a lot of work.
00:44:43:14 - 00:44:43:22
And the.
00:44:43:22 - 00:44:45:23
Hal
Other products were doing a whole lot more. So we were.
00:44:45:23 - 00:44:47:10
Selling.
00:44:47:12 - 00:44:51:03
Hal
You know, the signature kitchen. The bass was killing it.
00:44:51:05 - 00:44:52:13
And so the revenue that this.
00:44:52:13 - 00:44:54:12
Hal
Produced was tiny compared to the others.
00:44:54:13 - 00:44:56:12
Jamey
It's probably fun. You left foot work.
00:44:56:12 - 00:44:58:12
Hal
Yes. Yeah. It was a it was a project that.
00:44:58:12 - 00:45:01:00
We wanted to do and we did. And but.
00:45:01:00 - 00:45:03:18
Hal
We didn't really have a lot of focus on it. It was.
00:45:03:18 - 00:45:05:08
Jamey
Yeah, kind of an afterthought.
00:45:05:12 - 00:45:06:03
A lot of money.
00:45:06:03 - 00:45:10:10
Hal
Yeah. So fast forward.
00:45:10:10 - 00:45:12:07
And I, I've been doing this and it's a lot.
00:45:12:07 - 00:45:14:18
Hal
Of work and I was, I was CEO.
00:45:14:18 - 00:45:17:02
Of the company and operations.
00:45:17:07 - 00:45:19:01
Hal
When it was a lot and.
00:45:19:01 - 00:45:20:10
I was living there.
00:45:20:12 - 00:45:21:17
Hal
So it was.
00:45:21:19 - 00:45:23:21
It was like, you know, I'm a minority owner.
00:45:23:21 - 00:45:24:05
Hal
Here.
00:45:24:05 - 00:45:30:20
I can't and my partner, by the way, love him today. He's one of my dear friends and, one of the best thing ever happened to me.
00:45:30:20 - 00:45:31:05
Hal
Is.
00:45:31:06 - 00:45:37:03
His mentorship. But I was a minority owner of a company, and I didn't want to remain that way.
00:45:37:05 - 00:45:38:13
Jamey
You know, like, I'm running it. Running it.
00:45:38:13 - 00:45:39:04
Hal
So I try to.
00:45:39:04 - 00:45:44:12
I took a run at Signature Kitchens, buying using my stock and buying that from the company.
00:45:44:12 - 00:45:47:11
Hal
The company that I was the only other partner in. Yeah.
00:45:47:16 - 00:45:49:22
And, and and.
00:45:50:00 - 00:45:51:07
Hal
My partner was okay with.
00:45:51:07 - 00:45:53:04
It. I mean, he didn't want to lose me, but.
00:45:53:07 - 00:45:54:07
Hal
He knew that it would be good.
00:45:54:07 - 00:45:55:16
For me. And.
00:45:55:18 - 00:45:56:23
Hal
So I tried to.
00:45:57:03 - 00:46:03:07
So I you can use my stock, but it wouldn't give me enough to buy it, so I'd have to bring on an investor or.
00:46:03:09 - 00:46:03:23
Jamey
Get a loan.
00:46:03:23 - 00:46:04:21
Hal
Or get a loan.
00:46:04:23 - 00:46:15:05
And, so I wasn't I didn't know a lot of investors at that time, and I, I said, okay, I'll just take this to the bank. And it.
00:46:15:05 - 00:46:17:04
Hal
Was so we were we were right.
00:46:17:04 - 00:46:18:02
At $1 million in.
00:46:18:02 - 00:46:21:22
Hal
Sales. By the way, the product is it was the easiest.
00:46:21:22 - 00:46:22:12
Magazine to.
00:46:22:12 - 00:46:26:09
Hal
Publish. It required no employees.
00:46:26:11 - 00:46:28:09
I mean, I have one art director that was working on another.
00:46:28:09 - 00:46:28:21
Hal
Title.
00:46:29:02 - 00:46:30:02
And, I mean, it can.
00:46:30:02 - 00:46:33:00
Hal
Be put together by two people.
00:46:33:02 - 00:46:35:02
And we were, you know, we were only publishing.
00:46:35:04 - 00:46:37:16
Hal
You know, I think it was six issues a year.
00:46:37:20 - 00:46:38:07
Jamey
Okay.
00:46:38:09 - 00:46:39:07
Hal
And so it was really easy.
00:46:39:07 - 00:46:40:00
There wasn't any.
00:46:40:00 - 00:46:42:20
Hal
Overhead to it. And we were making we're.
00:46:42:20 - 00:46:46:00
Clearing $1 million in revenue.
00:46:46:01 - 00:46:50:09
Hal
It was had a EBITDA of 30%.
00:46:50:12 - 00:46:51:10
Jamey
Wow.
00:46:51:12 - 00:46:57:22
So we're making 300,000 bucks in EBITDA. And I had done it for five years.
00:46:58:00 - 00:46:59:05
Hal
Five consistent years.
00:46:59:05 - 00:47:00:08
Of doing it.
00:47:00:10 - 00:47:02:00
Hal
Five consistent years of newsstand.
00:47:02:00 - 00:47:05:20
Sales I can show to the bank. Yeah. And no one would loan me the money.
00:47:05:22 - 00:47:07:09
Jamey
Oh, the bank said no, because.
00:47:07:09 - 00:47:08:06
Hal
They don't do cash flow.
00:47:08:06 - 00:47:10:23
Lending and I didn't even know it. I'm like, well, I didn't know that,
00:47:11:01 - 00:47:11:19
Hal
I didn't realize that.
00:47:11:19 - 00:47:12:04
Banks.
00:47:12:10 - 00:47:12:22
Hal
I thought banks.
00:47:12:22 - 00:47:13:07
Just loan.
00:47:13:07 - 00:47:14:17
Jamey
They said no to that.
00:47:14:19 - 00:47:17:17
Hal
And they said. And so they didn't I couldn't get them.
00:47:17:17 - 00:47:18:17
I couldn't get the money to do it.
00:47:18:20 - 00:47:20:06
Hal
Yeah. So I've.
00:47:20:06 - 00:47:21:07
Jamey
Been there many times.
00:47:21:12 - 00:47:24:03
Hal
Yeah. It's frustrating.
00:47:24:05 - 00:47:38:13
You know, banks don't like doing that, cash flow lending. Some of them do, but most of them don't. And there's times and I don't know of at that time, in the economy, but but no one would do it. Had they done it, I probably wouldn't be sitting here. Because I would have been I would have done that.
00:47:38:13 - 00:47:39:21
But, a.
00:47:39:21 - 00:47:40:18
Hal
Couple years later.
00:47:40:18 - 00:47:41:22
Jamey
So you. So you didn't do it. You didn't.
00:47:41:22 - 00:47:43:13
I didn't buy signature kitchens. Oh, you.
00:47:43:13 - 00:47:45:00
Jamey
Tried and you couldn't get the money.
00:47:45:00 - 00:47:46:11
Right? Couldn't do it. And and I.
00:47:46:11 - 00:47:48:13
Hal
Was also so busy I didn't have.
00:47:48:13 - 00:47:51:00
Time to, you know, when the bank said, no, I'm pregnant.
00:47:51:00 - 00:47:52:01
Hal
With 4 or 5 banks.
00:47:52:01 - 00:47:55:01
And, and none of them said yes.
00:47:55:01 - 00:47:59:05
Hal
And so I just said, okay, I'll just keep running.
00:47:59:07 - 00:48:00:21
I'm staying pretty busy.
00:48:00:23 - 00:48:03:14
Hal
And so I, I said, you know.
00:48:03:16 - 00:48:13:05
For the magazine is not have it. No one was paying any attention to it internally. We didn't we didn't spend a lot of time on it because it was not bringing a lot of money,
00:48:13:07 - 00:48:16:22
Hal
Comparatively to the other stuff. So I.
00:48:17:00 - 00:48:19:01
I decided I want to take a run at that. I needed.
00:48:19:01 - 00:48:19:13
Hal
To focus.
00:48:19:13 - 00:48:21:20
On something. And I knew that one.
00:48:21:20 - 00:48:24:09
Hal
If I focused on it, I could. I could.
00:48:24:09 - 00:48:26:04
Turn it around, I see it, turn around, I could.
00:48:26:08 - 00:48:26:22
Hal
I could turn.
00:48:26:22 - 00:48:28:12
It into something much more than it was.
00:48:28:16 - 00:48:29:00
Hal
Yeah.
00:48:29:00 - 00:48:41:08
And so. And I love Fort Worth. My partners from Fort Worth at the time, but I, I knew he was destined for Dallas. And so sure enough, he ended up in.
00:48:41:08 - 00:48:42:12
Hal
Dallas.
00:48:42:14 - 00:48:46:23
And I, I ended up buying the magazine for the magazine from.
00:48:47:01 - 00:48:48:20
Jamey
Just that one individual magazine, just.
00:48:48:20 - 00:48:59:09
For the magazine. So I divested myself of my stock. But on a minority partner, in Bobby Patton. And and then then.
00:48:59:11 - 00:49:02:06
Hal
We actually office together for 2 or 3 more years.
00:49:02:08 - 00:49:03:06
00:49:03:08 - 00:49:05:10
Hal
Because we had such a great relationship.
00:49:05:16 - 00:49:08:10
And they ended up moving to Dallas, and I moved in to.
00:49:08:10 - 00:49:08:19
Hal
Fort Worth.
00:49:08:19 - 00:49:11:09
Jamey
And so when he went to sell those other magazines, you're no longer part of that.
00:49:11:13 - 00:49:13:14
Hal
Right? So that the other products I've.
00:49:13:14 - 00:49:15:12
Divested myself of Signature kitchens of.
00:49:15:18 - 00:49:16:22
Hal
Of all the other products, do you.
00:49:16:22 - 00:49:19:00
Jamey
Regret doing that or was it the right.
00:49:19:02 - 00:49:19:12
Yes or.
00:49:19:12 - 00:49:20:18
Hal
No? Yeah. It's.
00:49:20:18 - 00:49:21:10
Been a whole lot more.
00:49:21:10 - 00:49:23:00
Hal
Work.
00:49:23:02 - 00:49:26:17
That's what I say, you know, it's, the multiples you can make, something like.
00:49:26:17 - 00:49:27:23
Hal
That versus a.
00:49:27:23 - 00:49:29:13
Traditional magazine.
00:49:29:13 - 00:49:31:16
Hal
Completely different.
00:49:31:18 - 00:49:32:13
And one of the.
00:49:32:13 - 00:49:36:23
Hal
Products that we had started publishing was,
00:49:37:01 - 00:49:40:23
Is a magazine called Oreo.
00:49:41:00 - 00:49:42:05
Hal
Real estate owned.
00:49:42:07 - 00:49:43:07
Jamey
Okay.
00:49:43:09 - 00:49:44:13
Hal
Default service. Yeah.
00:49:44:15 - 00:49:45:23
So we changed the name of the magazine.
00:49:45:23 - 00:49:49:19
Hal
We bought it from a guy, changed it to DZ news.
00:49:49:21 - 00:49:52:22
And.
00:49:53:00 - 00:49:53:12
We were starting.
00:49:53:12 - 00:49:54:09
Hal
A trade show.
00:49:54:11 - 00:49:57:12
Around it, and so.
00:49:57:14 - 00:49:58:18
Hal
I was busy doing.
00:49:58:18 - 00:49:59:18
Everything else.
00:49:59:20 - 00:50:01:15
Hal
Mark was the.
00:50:01:17 - 00:50:04:06
The visionary of our company, and he.
00:50:04:06 - 00:50:05:08
Hal
He was out starting.
00:50:05:08 - 00:50:07:10
Everything with me. And then I would then he would.
00:50:07:12 - 00:50:11:12
Hal
Lead me to to put it all together. Yeah. And do all the, you know, the work there.
00:50:11:14 - 00:50:12:14
And so.
00:50:12:16 - 00:50:13:18
Hal
I got so busy, I just.
00:50:13:18 - 00:50:16:13
Didn't have time. And so.
00:50:16:15 - 00:50:17:16
Hal
Anyway, that's.
00:50:17:18 - 00:50:20:01
I ended up saying, you know, I need to.
00:50:20:01 - 00:50:21:04
Hal
Pull away, but he, he.
00:50:21:04 - 00:50:22:06
Ended up doing a.
00:50:22:08 - 00:50:24:23
Hal
Trade show that ballooned.
00:50:24:23 - 00:50:25:10
Into.
00:50:25:10 - 00:50:27:06
Hal
This massive.
00:50:27:08 - 00:50:28:13
Deal. I mean, you know, they've.
00:50:28:13 - 00:50:30:12
Hal
Had George Bush speak.
00:50:30:12 - 00:50:33:00
At it. I mean, it's it's it's massive.
00:50:33:05 - 00:50:33:13
Hal
00:50:34:00 - 00:50:38:06
He's no longer in that. He's he ended up moving on eventually.
00:50:38:08 - 00:50:39:00
Hal
But.
00:50:39:02 - 00:50:41:08
I would have made a lot more money.
00:50:41:09 - 00:50:43:20
Jamey
Have stayed in. Yeah.
00:50:43:22 - 00:50:45:17
Hal
But I wouldn't be as satisfied. Maybe.
00:50:45:18 - 00:50:47:16
Jamey
Yeah. Yeah. Even the. So you'd.
00:50:47:16 - 00:50:48:04
Have been.
00:50:48:06 - 00:51:09:21
Jamey
So you launched Fort Worth magazine, and and I, I will just say, you know, one thing I wanted, I wanted to talk about. And I think I've. I've told you this before, well, and I want to talk about, like, internet and how that changed everything because the internet came in completely flipped your industry upside down as it did movies and music and so many things.
00:51:09:23 - 00:51:37:12
Jamey
But I, I like for that magazine has just become such a pivotal part of our culture. And I feel like it's kind of the glue, you know, like highlight people and things that are happening. But for me personally and Melissa and for Sixth Avenue, my business is like getting in in the magazines gave us so much authority. And so I used to I remember like, I could never get a bank loan.
00:51:37:13 - 00:51:54:01
Jamey
We were flipping houses and we'd look at all these houses we've we'd have done it makes like, no, we're not lending money to a musician. But it wasn't until, like we were in the magazine, I think like that the magazine like then all of a sudden it's like, oh, now banks will lend to.
00:51:54:03 - 00:51:54:08
Hal
On the.
00:51:54:08 - 00:51:55:11
Cover, I think, which is.
00:51:55:14 - 00:52:01:23
Jamey
Yeah, one of our key, I don't know what. Yeah, I was on the cover. The first one was you did a story on Melissa and I in our house.
00:52:02:00 - 00:52:02:17
Hal
Yeah.
00:52:02:18 - 00:52:12:00
Jamey
And it was like, I remember at best, like, Jamie, I saw this like it was one of the first times I met him. He's like, oh, yeah, I read about you in the magazine. I want to see your house. And I was like, oh my gosh.
00:52:12:00 - 00:52:13:22
Hal
This is wow. You're like, this is yeah, that's cool. Yeah.
00:52:13:22 - 00:52:33:16
Jamey
And then I was on the cover, which was a big surprise. And but yeah, it just opened up. It just gives you a, it gives you a lot of story, like the power it has for a local business is a really big deal. Yeah. And even now and I'm like, what are the new restaurants? But like, flip through the magazine, I have like a thing where I sit down on Sundays and I read magazines on the couch.
00:52:33:18 - 00:52:54:00
Jamey
But I'm like, what are the new it anyways? It's it's powerful. If you hadn't done that, I think the it's shaped the community in a really big way. And one of my favorite, one of my like, just favorite moments in all of life. I'm on the cover of the magazine and, everywhere I would go, I would like intentionally, obnoxiously go to places that had it.
00:52:54:02 - 00:53:01:03
Jamey
And I, like, went to Central Market and I would pick it up at Central Market and like, show the cashier and be like, hey, you heard this guy.
00:53:01:05 - 00:53:01:11
Hal
And.
00:53:01:12 - 00:53:01:22
Jamey
All this. If I.
00:53:01:22 - 00:53:03:13
Hal
Could really, like, hold on, that looks like.
00:53:03:15 - 00:53:05:21
Jamey
It's a once in a lifetime opportunity right at.
00:53:05:21 - 00:53:06:19
Hal
The time. It's so.
00:53:06:20 - 00:53:09:10
Yeah. And there's. Yeah. And that's. Yeah. In Central Market.
00:53:09:10 - 00:53:11:01
Hal
There was you know, ten registers.
00:53:11:01 - 00:53:11:11
And they're all.
00:53:11:11 - 00:53:12:13
Hal
At the register.
00:53:12:13 - 00:53:22:02
Jamey
Right. Yeah. Yeah. It felt it felt like a celebrity. So you use you leave you you bring on a partner to go just deep dive and into this.
00:53:22:03 - 00:53:22:22
Hal
Yeah. Just focusing.
00:53:22:22 - 00:53:23:05
On it.
00:53:23:05 - 00:53:26:04
Jamey
And you had a vision for, like, this could be more.
00:53:26:06 - 00:53:26:19
Hal
Yeah.
00:53:26:21 - 00:53:28:00
And.
00:53:28:02 - 00:53:29:01
Hal
You know, we were just.
00:53:29:03 - 00:53:38:00
You know, it was. It's a lifestyle magazine and, you know, indulge at the time, was doing something that.
00:53:38:00 - 00:53:38:08
Hal
That.
00:53:38:11 - 00:53:40:11
We emulated.
00:53:40:13 - 00:53:42:04
Hal
That we'd change it up a bit because they.
00:53:42:04 - 00:53:44:15
Were doing we still wanted the very high end.
00:53:44:15 - 00:53:46:12
Hal
Fort Worth market.
00:53:46:14 - 00:53:47:00
And we're not.
00:53:47:00 - 00:53:47:14
Hal
Apologetic.
00:53:47:14 - 00:53:51:06
About that. Some people get mad at us and they think, well, how come you.
00:53:51:06 - 00:53:52:05
Hal
Don't represent you're called.
00:53:52:05 - 00:53:58:04
Fort Magazine, but you're not, you know, represent Fort Worth. I mean, there's more than just, you know.
00:53:58:04 - 00:53:58:17
Hal
People, right?
00:53:58:18 - 00:54:05:22
Driving, Range Rovers and Mercedes. And that's true, but but we're not a city.
00:54:06:00 - 00:54:06:16
Hal
We're for.
00:54:06:16 - 00:54:09:12
Profit company. And we do editorial.
00:54:09:15 - 00:54:12:00
Hal
We cover a lot in Fort Worth, but our.
00:54:12:00 - 00:54:13:10
Demographic and we're true to that.
00:54:13:10 - 00:54:14:13
Hal
Demographic is is.
00:54:14:13 - 00:54:17:11
A high end demographic. And I mean by that high income.
00:54:17:14 - 00:54:19:20
Hal
Yeah. And we do that because you're an.
00:54:19:20 - 00:54:20:18
Advertising driven.
00:54:20:18 - 00:54:21:14
Hal
Product. Yeah.
00:54:21:14 - 00:54:22:11
And city magazines.
00:54:22:11 - 00:54:24:09
Hal
Are. So if you don't have a that's a.
00:54:24:09 - 00:54:27:00
Reason why Star-Telegram and other newspapers are out of business. So most.
00:54:27:05 - 00:54:28:19
Hal
Is that they're.
00:54:28:19 - 00:54:30:05
They're trying to be everything to all.
00:54:30:05 - 00:54:32:20
Hal
People. Yeah. And so all the vertical titles.
00:54:32:20 - 00:54:35:13
That have come out have driven everybody away from the newspaper.
00:54:35:18 - 00:54:37:00
Hal
Well, of course digital as well.
00:54:37:00 - 00:54:38:01
But
00:54:38:03 - 00:54:40:08
Hal
So, you know, being.
00:54:40:13 - 00:54:44:17
Having your niche, having your market, you know, you're in marketing, right? You need to know who you're talking.
00:54:44:17 - 00:54:45:16
Hal
To, who your audience. If you try.
00:54:45:16 - 00:54:47:18
To do too much, then, you.
00:54:47:18 - 00:54:49:08
Hal
Know, Star-Telegram, they would.
00:54:49:08 - 00:54:50:19
Put up their numbers against us, something like.
00:54:50:19 - 00:54:53:03
Hal
That. You know, like we didn't.
00:54:53:03 - 00:54:58:04
Have an audit early on, audit as a circulation. Oh, that's what I'm talking about. But I'm like, why.
00:54:58:04 - 00:54:58:11
Hal
Would I.
00:54:58:14 - 00:55:02:04
Pay for an audit? It's just going to show the Star-Telegram kills us.
00:55:02:08 - 00:55:03:08
Jamey
Yeah.
00:55:03:10 - 00:55:05:10
And so people will say, no, I'm going to do the.
00:55:05:10 - 00:55:06:15
Hal
Star-Telegram because the.
00:55:06:15 - 00:55:07:14
CPM is so much.
00:55:07:14 - 00:55:08:04
Hal
Better.
00:55:08:06 - 00:55:09:14
And I'm like, yeah, but 95.
00:55:09:14 - 00:55:12:09
Hal
Percent of the people that you're reaching can't afford to buy your product. Yeah.
00:55:12:09 - 00:55:14:12
Jamey
So that's why we have this niche.
00:55:14:12 - 00:55:15:23
Hal
That's right. Yeah.
00:55:16:01 - 00:55:17:04
So.
00:55:17:06 - 00:55:20:00
Hal
So that was obviously we created.
00:55:20:00 - 00:55:27:06
Our niche and but we didn't have, any long form journalism happening.
00:55:27:08 - 00:55:28:23
Hal
It was,
00:55:29:01 - 00:55:30:05
You know, a lot of it's kind of.
00:55:30:05 - 00:55:31:02
Hal
What 360 has.
00:55:31:02 - 00:55:32:05
Done.
00:55:32:07 - 00:55:35:13
Hal
You know, lots of pictures.
00:55:35:15 - 00:55:40:08
Not as much editorial. No, not as much deep diving into.
00:55:40:09 - 00:55:42:17
Hal
Stories and people.
00:55:42:19 - 00:55:43:13
So telling the back.
00:55:43:13 - 00:55:45:14
Hal
Stories, which is what I love. Yeah.
00:55:45:16 - 00:55:48:05
I love telling people stories. Yeah.
00:55:48:07 - 00:55:51:20
Hal
So that's what we brought to the table that.
00:55:51:20 - 00:55:53:06
We weren't necessarily doing to.
00:55:53:06 - 00:55:55:02
Hal
Start with.
00:55:55:04 - 00:55:55:19
But when I took.
00:55:55:19 - 00:55:56:19
Hal
It over, I.
00:55:56:19 - 00:55:57:18
Started doing much more.
00:55:57:18 - 00:55:58:04
Hal
Of that.
00:55:58:05 - 00:56:09:10
Jamey
Yeah. And I feel like it's progressively gotten even the past few years. I feel like I've gotten maybe more aggressive in interesting stories. Is that would you say that's true? And what an interesting story.
00:56:09:10 - 00:56:10:03
Hal
Yeah. Well.
00:56:10:05 - 00:56:12:03
Interesting is,
00:56:12:05 - 00:56:16:09
Hal
Is up for I guess anybody could want anything from this person.
00:56:16:09 - 00:56:18:06
May not be. Yeah, sure.
00:56:18:08 - 00:56:24:08
Jamey
Yeah. In in depth. Meaning not because you. Because you cover, like, the new restaurants. The new thing.
00:56:24:10 - 00:56:25:04
Hal
Right.
00:56:25:06 - 00:56:25:16
Jamey
You know.
00:56:25:21 - 00:56:26:04
Hal
Yeah.
00:56:26:04 - 00:56:33:12
Jamey
The house, stuff like the top real estate agents. But you all do, like, pretty some pretty wild stories, too.
00:56:33:14 - 00:56:34:19
Long form journalism.
00:56:34:21 - 00:56:35:03
Hal
Yeah.
00:56:35:08 - 00:56:37:06
Jamey
Is what you call it. It would be the right. Yeah.
00:56:37:06 - 00:56:45:13
Hal
Yeah, I think for way too long. Long, form journalism. So you're, you're you're using a lot of words, because it's like I said, I love.
00:56:45:13 - 00:56:46:10
That story, but I want to know.
00:56:46:10 - 00:56:47:00
Hal
More.
00:56:47:02 - 00:56:47:09
Jamey
Yeah.
00:56:47:15 - 00:56:48:18
And so we.
00:56:48:18 - 00:57:01:07
Hal
Don't do a lot of those. We don't do a lot of people still just like to look through it, you know, still one of our best sections is a back to the book. And people look at the social column, right. Who went to what party and they want to see their pictures and, but yeah.
00:57:01:09 - 00:57:02:07
But we put in there some.
00:57:02:07 - 00:57:04:07
Hal
Deep features as well.
00:57:04:09 - 00:57:05:03
Some of them are.
00:57:05:04 - 00:57:06:10
Hal
Really, deep.
00:57:06:10 - 00:57:09:18
And, you know, some of them not as much, but.
00:57:09:20 - 00:57:10:17
Hal
But that's what we started.
00:57:10:17 - 00:57:11:00
Doing.
00:57:11:00 - 00:57:12:03
Hal
More of.
00:57:12:05 - 00:57:15:15
It's more long form journalism. Kind of like more like Texas Monthly. Yeah.
00:57:15:15 - 00:57:30:04
Jamey
Texas Monthly style. And so did it go well? You going all in on this? Like, was it what you thought thought it would be? And then internet stuff starts happening around the time. Yeah. Because you you you started Panther's Panther.
00:57:30:06 - 00:57:30:20
City Media.
00:57:30:20 - 00:57:31:09
Hal
Group.
00:57:31:11 - 00:57:33:06
Jamey
Was, was this new company.
00:57:33:09 - 00:57:34:14
Hal
Yeah. So that was the.
00:57:34:14 - 00:57:36:17
Parent company of Fort Worth magazine. Yeah.
00:57:36:19 - 00:57:39:00
Hal
So I started.
00:57:39:02 - 00:57:41:17
That magazine or that company, and we brought in Fort.
00:57:41:17 - 00:57:48:16
Hal
Worth H in 2015. Yeah. So and I'm not sure what your question was.
00:57:48:17 - 00:57:49:10
00:57:49:12 - 00:57:52:20
Hal
But Panther City Media Group owns both titles.
00:57:52:20 - 00:58:01:01
Jamey
So used to be started that and then at what point did like, the industry got massively disrupted.
00:58:01:03 - 00:58:02:12
Hal
On the digital side on the digital.
00:58:02:13 - 00:58:04:06
Yeah, that's where we were going. Yeah.
00:58:04:06 - 00:58:06:12
Hal
I knew that.
00:58:06:17 - 00:58:08:02
And everybody knew I mean, the.
00:58:08:04 - 00:58:09:15
Hal
Printer and the word on the street.
00:58:09:15 - 00:58:11:00
Was print going away.
00:58:11:02 - 00:58:12:21
Hal
You go to the ad agencies, they're going, well.
00:58:12:23 - 00:58:17:03
You know, prints going out, man. You know, I mean, it's not yet happened yet, but,
00:58:17:05 - 00:58:20:03
Hal
You know, people more people talked about it and, you know, aren't you scared what's.
00:58:20:03 - 00:58:21:20
Going to happen when.
00:58:21:22 - 00:58:22:15
Hal
Everybody can get the.
00:58:22:15 - 00:58:25:04
Stories online? And, you know, we weren't doing that.
00:58:25:04 - 00:58:28:06
Hal
So we I guess we had a digital flip book, early.
00:58:28:06 - 00:58:29:12
On, but.
00:58:29:13 - 00:58:30:08
Hal
But there weren't.
00:58:30:10 - 00:58:34:19
There wasn't as much traffic on it. And so but I knew.
00:58:34:19 - 00:58:35:01
Hal
It was.
00:58:35:01 - 00:58:38:01
Coming. And so we invested.
00:58:38:03 - 00:58:38:10
Hal
00:58:38:10 - 00:58:42:20
Significantly in our, in building up this infrastructure. Clients. Right.
00:58:42:20 - 00:58:44:18
Hal
Or digital base.
00:58:44:20 - 00:58:47:06
And, and so.
00:58:47:08 - 00:58:48:06
Hal
I guess probably 20.
00:58:48:06 - 00:58:49:14
11 is when that.
00:58:49:14 - 00:58:50:02
Hal
Started.
00:58:50:02 - 00:58:53:12
And I brought on the, web guy and, and.
00:58:53:14 - 00:58:56:01
Hal
We had two web, I had two videographer.
00:58:56:05 - 00:58:58:20
On staff doing this kind of stuff.
00:58:58:22 - 00:59:03:06
Hal
Literally we were interviewing people. We were, I had a TV show with Scott Murray.
00:59:03:07 - 00:59:03:21
Jamey
Oh, really?
00:59:04:01 - 00:59:06:06
Hal
Yeah. It was, you know, we we.
00:59:06:06 - 00:59:12:14
Bought the time, on channel 11, and then we, and I had him and Amanda macy, who is a.
00:59:12:16 - 00:59:18:00
Hal
The wife of, TCU's baseball, one of their coaches.
00:59:18:02 - 00:59:19:18
Back in the day. And.
00:59:19:20 - 00:59:23:06
Hal
So, yeah, we were doing a lot of video.
00:59:23:08 - 00:59:26:17
And, yeah, I invested in growing that back then.
00:59:26:19 - 00:59:33:02
Hal
Way before anybody else did. Yeah. Just why we are today, our digital footprint is so significantly.
00:59:33:06 - 00:59:35:20
Much higher than any anybody else in our.
00:59:35:22 - 00:59:37:06
Hal
Category. So, like, 360.
00:59:37:06 - 00:59:38:16
Does not hold a candle to us.
00:59:38:16 - 00:59:40:07
Hal
Digitally. Yeah.
00:59:40:09 - 00:59:44:03
They just press a button, send magazines to a demographic.
00:59:44:04 - 01:00:12:09
Jamey
Yeah, yeah. And what's interesting about, about the local side of things is like, I used to get rolling Stone magazine, and I used to get entrepreneur, and I used to. I don't get any of those anymore, but I still I love getting the physical for a magazine. I love getting like the physical thing. Thank you. And I think there's something like, I don't I think there was like physical went away on some level, but I don't feel like it went away as much on like the local level, like right.
01:00:12:10 - 01:00:14:02
City magazines didn't get affected.
01:00:14:02 - 01:00:16:13
Jamey
Yeah. Which is a much I don't know why that is.
01:00:16:18 - 01:00:21:13
Hal
I think it's because it's, it's your city. It's, it's it's like it's a.
01:00:21:15 - 01:00:21:23
You know.
01:00:22:04 - 01:00:23:16
Hal
It's a piece of.
01:00:23:18 - 01:00:24:09
Art on your.
01:00:24:09 - 01:00:30:18
Hal
Table. It's a, I used to say it's like a cocktail party in print.
01:00:30:22 - 01:00:31:23
Jamey
Yeah.
01:00:32:00 - 01:00:36:14
And so you want to and it's. And if it's a high end beautiful magazine.
01:00:36:16 - 01:00:37:15
Hal
Yeah. It actually looks really.
01:00:37:15 - 01:00:38:18
Good sitting on your coffee.
01:00:38:18 - 01:00:39:01
Hal
Table.
01:00:39:01 - 01:00:40:05
You have two of them. That's right.
01:00:40:07 - 01:00:40:14
Jamey
Yeah.
01:00:40:20 - 01:00:41:00
Right.
01:00:41:00 - 01:00:42:12
Hal
And it's almost like, oh, God, here's a.
01:00:42:12 - 01:00:43:14
Lifestyle magazine that I.
01:00:43:14 - 01:00:43:19
Hal
Like.
01:00:43:19 - 01:00:45:17
It represents something that I'm interested in. Yeah, but.
01:00:45:17 - 01:01:10:21
Jamey
There's something about the local side of it. It's just more I think as we've become increasingly digital as a society, as conversely, been a movement also back more towards local. I kind of want my local authentic things. So anyways, I think that's interesting. And then y'all's volume of, you know, the I wake up every morning, I get into the office around like eight and in my inbox.
01:01:10:21 - 01:01:23:17
Jamey
I always have my Fort Worth Inc updates, you know, the day, the day like I feel like that's my pulse. You know, the volume y'all put out digitally on email is crazy, but it's also like it's how I keep. It's like my news.
01:01:23:19 - 01:01:24:07
Hal
I love that.
01:01:24:12 - 01:01:25:06
It's here, that it.
01:01:25:06 - 01:01:27:22
Jamey
Really is. Like, that's how I know what's going on.
01:01:28:00 - 01:01:28:17
Hal
It's great to hear.
01:01:28:17 - 01:01:33:02
Jamey
You know, which I know that's that's a lot of work. That's probably easier said than.
01:01:33:02 - 01:01:37:21
Hal
Yeah. So the beauty of digital, was, hey.
01:01:37:23 - 01:01:41:03
Paper printing, postage, you don't have any of that. And that was the.
01:01:41:03 - 01:01:42:04
Hal
It's a hey, everybody's going to be.
01:01:42:04 - 01:01:43:13
Digital and it's free.
01:01:43:15 - 01:01:45:06
Jamey
Yeah.
01:01:45:07 - 01:01:46:12
Which, you know, one of the reasons.
01:01:46:12 - 01:01:47:16
Hal
Why it's hard to scale.
01:01:47:16 - 01:01:48:14
In the magazine business.
01:01:48:14 - 01:01:50:13
Hal
Is paper postage and printing.
01:01:50:13 - 01:01:51:04
Jamey
It's expensive.
01:01:51:04 - 01:01:51:11
Hal
It's just.
01:01:51:16 - 01:01:53:02
And that's a commodity that.
01:01:53:06 - 01:01:54:07
Hal
It goes up faster.
01:01:54:07 - 01:02:00:02
Typically than other commodities. And so it's just it continue to go up and it makes it very hard to.
01:02:00:04 - 01:02:01:07
Hal
To scale.
01:02:01:09 - 01:02:03:15
But on the digital side.
01:02:03:17 - 01:02:05:21
Hal
Everybody's like, okay, this is great because we.
01:02:05:23 - 01:02:06:09
Now.
01:02:06:09 - 01:02:06:20
Hal
Have the.
01:02:06:20 - 01:02:10:08
Ability to not print and not send any use, any.
01:02:10:08 - 01:02:11:07
Hal
Postage.
01:02:11:09 - 01:02:11:21
And so.
01:02:11:21 - 01:02:13:20
Hal
We can just put it out there.
01:02:13:22 - 01:02:15:01
And everybody will come.
01:02:15:03 - 01:02:15:16
Jamey
Yeah.
01:02:15:18 - 01:02:19:05
And, that's not always the case. And.
01:02:19:07 - 01:02:23:22
Hal
And it takes, it takes a while to build it up.
01:02:24:00 - 01:02:25:02
And there is competition.
01:02:25:02 - 01:02:29:03
Hal
But the biggest issue is you've got to fill the tank.
01:02:29:05 - 01:02:31:06
Jamey
And you got to be fast. I'm assuming.
01:02:31:07 - 01:02:32:08
Hal
You've got, you got to put out.
01:02:32:08 - 01:02:37:07
A lot of content. Content is key. Yeah. And if you don't put out good content and it's.
01:02:37:07 - 01:02:39:00
Hal
Not put out regularly.
01:02:39:02 - 01:02:40:02
You're not going to keep your audience.
01:02:40:02 - 01:02:42:08
Hal
So if we stopped doing it, we start.
01:02:42:08 - 01:02:43:00
Putting in.
01:02:43:02 - 01:02:45:11
Hal
Material you liked or cared about.
01:02:45:12 - 01:02:45:22
It's not free.
01:02:46:04 - 01:02:50:12
Hal
It's just. So. Yeah, the so the overhead that you have.
01:02:50:14 - 01:02:52:01
Not the outside.
01:02:52:01 - 01:02:53:04
Hal
Costs.
01:02:53:06 - 01:02:58:21
Because we were putting, you know, doing one magazine a month. We're putting out more content in two.
01:02:58:21 - 01:03:01:21
Hal
Days digitally and then you, when we put out the entire month.
01:03:01:23 - 01:03:03:20
Jamey
So your labor cost is way up. Yeah.
01:03:03:22 - 01:03:05:06
Hal
That's what they didn't tell you.
01:03:05:08 - 01:03:30:03
Jamey
Yeah. They had to walk me through scaling that too because you have and I think it's you know, you're sort of this entrepreneur business minded person. But then you're and I was kind of alluding this earlier. You're juggling creatives as well. Yeah. You know, you're juggling these creative writers, photographers, graphic designers. You have a team, you have an advertising team.
01:03:30:05 - 01:03:45:05
Jamey
And folks who are selling advertising are totally different, you know, breed than for some, you know, writing this in-depth story like walk me through just kind of how what you learned scaling and managing people. And from a leadership perspective.
01:03:45:07 - 01:03:47:18
You've been in my space. When was the last time you were there?
01:03:47:19 - 01:03:50:00
Jamey
I don't know, I mean, I've been a handful of times, okay.
01:03:50:00 - 01:03:50:16
But like in the last.
01:03:50:18 - 01:03:55:09
Hal
Three years, 3 or 4 years probably. Okay. So we, I guess,
01:03:55:11 - 01:03:55:18
Jamey
I came.
01:03:55:20 - 01:03:56:10
Hal
Five years.
01:03:56:10 - 01:03:58:19
Ago, maybe, I don't know, time, could have been.
01:03:58:19 - 01:03:59:19
Hal
6 or 7, but we.
01:03:59:19 - 01:04:01:05
Expanded and took,
01:04:01:06 - 01:04:01:15
Hal
The.
01:04:01:20 - 01:04:05:08
So now we start on can't be and it goes all the way back to the main building.
01:04:05:08 - 01:04:07:17
Hal
So it's like 6000ft².
01:04:07:19 - 01:04:10:23
And so we redesigned our space.
01:04:11:00 - 01:04:12:13
Hal
Creative is here.
01:04:12:15 - 01:04:13:19
Way on the other side of the.
01:04:13:19 - 01:04:20:12
Hal
Office. Is the advertising part okay? For good reason. Yeah. You talk about managing people.
01:04:20:14 - 01:04:22:04
You know, in the old office.
01:04:22:04 - 01:04:22:13
Hal
We were.
01:04:22:14 - 01:04:23:16
On that front and we were talking.
01:04:23:16 - 01:04:25:07
Hal
About it earlier, the, you know, the high, high.
01:04:25:07 - 01:04:26:13
Ceilings. And we didn't have.
01:04:26:18 - 01:04:30:00
Hal
You know, you didn't have privacy. We had walls, we had vertical walls. But it was.
01:04:30:00 - 01:04:32:01
An open space concept. Yeah. And so.
01:04:32:01 - 01:04:32:19
Hal
If I was.
01:04:32:21 - 01:04:35:02
Literally right, and again, art directors on one side.
01:04:35:02 - 01:04:35:20
Hal
Of a.
01:04:35:22 - 01:04:36:15
Seven six.
01:04:36:15 - 01:04:37:20
Hal
Foot wall sensor wall.
01:04:37:22 - 01:04:41:17
And, and then that was open on the top. And so.
01:04:41:17 - 01:04:41:21
Hal
They're.
01:04:41:21 - 01:04:42:10
Selling.
01:04:42:14 - 01:04:44:05
Hal
And they're going, yes, we can do that.
01:04:44:05 - 01:04:47:03
Of course we can do that. And then they hang up. And then the art.
01:04:47:03 - 01:04:48:16
Hal
Director walks over, goes, what did you just.
01:04:48:16 - 01:04:49:20
Promise?
01:04:49:22 - 01:04:52:16
Hal
Right. Yeah. So, yeah. So that was.
01:04:52:16 - 01:04:54:01
Something we did on the management.
01:04:54:01 - 01:04:56:09
Hal
Side. That was probably,
01:04:56:11 - 01:05:01:07
One of the better things we have done. But scaling,
01:05:01:09 - 01:05:05:17
Hal
You had asked that question. I saw it earlier, and one of your handouts was.
01:05:05:19 - 01:05:07:14
The question that you had ask was.
01:05:07:16 - 01:05:08:14
Hal
You know what?
01:05:08:16 - 01:05:10:03
What's one of the things that you've done to.
01:05:10:03 - 01:05:11:05
Hal
Scale that was.
01:05:11:08 - 01:05:17:14
Been, probably the most important in and for me,
01:05:17:16 - 01:05:18:18
Hal
We do iOS.
01:05:18:18 - 01:05:21:06
Traction.
01:05:21:08 - 01:05:22:05
Hal
Which.
01:05:22:07 - 01:05:23:21
Is been so good.
01:05:23:23 - 01:05:24:12
Hal
For our company.
01:05:24:12 - 01:05:27:00
I really don't know how I, I wouldn't be where I am today without.
01:05:27:00 - 01:05:27:13
Hal
It. Yeah.
01:05:27:13 - 01:05:38:04
Jamey
For those who don't know, it's entrepreneur operating system. Yes, it's it's basically a, a structure for running meetings and setting goals in an off. Yeah, yeah.
01:05:38:06 - 01:05:38:14
So.
01:05:38:14 - 01:05:40:06
Jamey
Harry implemented a do it. Do you do it yourself?
01:05:40:09 - 01:05:41:03
Hal
We actually brought.
01:05:41:03 - 01:05:44:17
Up implementer on, and the implementer.
01:05:44:19 - 01:05:46:03
Hal
Stayed with us for.
01:05:46:06 - 01:05:47:02
For the entire year.
01:05:47:02 - 01:05:51:04
Hal
So they did the so we did they did all four quarterlies. So we, we did.
01:05:51:04 - 01:05:52:04
Like an intense 2 or 3.
01:05:52:04 - 01:05:52:13
Hal
Day.
01:05:52:19 - 01:05:53:17
And then he would.
01:05:53:17 - 01:05:56:09
Hal
He attended all of our quarterlies for the year.
01:05:56:11 - 01:05:57:02
And helped us.
01:05:57:02 - 01:05:59:00
Jamey
So that's one of the best things you think you've done.
01:05:59:00 - 01:06:04:08
Hal
Absolutely. And well, part of that I was going to say that's part of it. But the biggest part of the.
01:06:04:08 - 01:06:10:21
Implementation of that is the integrator. So in iOS.
01:06:10:23 - 01:06:12:20
Hal
One of the things I highly recommend.
01:06:12:20 - 01:06:13:17
Is that you bring on an.
01:06:13:17 - 01:06:16:01
Hal
Integrator, which is the.
01:06:16:03 - 01:06:17:11
It's not the visionary.
01:06:17:11 - 01:06:19:21
Hal
Because usually it's the guy, it's the guy that's.
01:06:19:22 - 01:06:20:18
Owns the company.
01:06:20:18 - 01:06:22:08
Hal
Does all of it.
01:06:22:10 - 01:06:25:14
And he is involved in everything. And what happens.
01:06:25:14 - 01:06:27:00
Hal
Is he gets so business, so.
01:06:27:00 - 01:06:28:05
Busy in the business.
01:06:28:11 - 01:06:29:03
Hal
That he can't work.
01:06:29:03 - 01:06:29:11
On the.
01:06:29:11 - 01:06:30:11
Hal
Business.
01:06:30:13 - 01:06:36:02
And then and that's what happened to me over the years, so many times, you know, there's a.
01:06:36:02 - 01:06:37:06
Hal
There's a delegate.
01:06:37:06 - 01:06:45:13
And an elevate. And he was, I implemented that, but I brought on the integrator.
01:06:45:14 - 01:06:45:22
Hal
Which.
01:06:45:22 - 01:06:52:15
You know, my called him, who was my sales director. We're not large enough. We have two employees.
01:06:52:15 - 01:06:53:18
Hal
That have a separate.
01:06:53:20 - 01:06:54:11
Integrator.
01:06:54:11 - 01:06:55:12
Hal
So.
01:06:55:14 - 01:06:57:15
He is my sales director and integrator.
01:06:57:15 - 01:06:59:08
Jamey
Yeah, he's the operations.
01:06:59:08 - 01:07:02:05
Hal
He is a master. He's one of those guys.
01:07:02:05 - 01:07:04:08
He's one of the most gifted man I've ever known. He is.
01:07:04:08 - 01:07:04:19
Hal
Right.
01:07:05:00 - 01:07:09:17
And left. Right. I mean, he is a genius. Literally, on both sides.
01:07:09:19 - 01:07:14:08
Hal
Operationally, he is absolutely one of the best ever.
01:07:14:10 - 01:07:16:01
And usually that's not the same when you.
01:07:16:01 - 01:07:17:08
Hal
Have a sales director.
01:07:17:10 - 01:07:18:17
They're not worried about the details.
01:07:18:17 - 01:07:20:02
Hal
They're just worried about sales.
01:07:20:02 - 01:07:22:05
Jamey
Yeah, but he he can he can worry about those.
01:07:22:05 - 01:07:23:16
Hal
He is he wears both hats.
01:07:23:16 - 01:07:25:15
And I brought him on as a not only.
01:07:25:15 - 01:07:26:16
Hal
Just integrator, but after.
01:07:26:19 - 01:07:27:07
I made him.
01:07:27:07 - 01:07:31:04
Hal
Integrator, after a couple of years, 3 or 4 years, I.
01:07:31:04 - 01:07:32:06
Brought him on as a partner.
01:07:32:10 - 01:07:33:13
Hal
Okay. So he's.
01:07:33:13 - 01:07:35:19
The only one I have. And.
01:07:35:21 - 01:07:37:02
Hal
What that does.
01:07:37:04 - 01:07:41:21
Is it makes him aware, and he's kind of that guy anyway.
01:07:41:21 - 01:07:50:15
Hal
But most people, if they're your sales director, what do they worried about? Gross sales. I don't care what I have to get there. I just need to get there. Yeah, it.
01:07:50:15 - 01:07:52:13
Doesn't matter if I'm spending a lot of the money, because.
01:07:52:15 - 01:07:54:13
Hal
Don't. All I care is the gross. Yeah, because that's what.
01:07:54:13 - 01:07:55:18
I'm judged on. Well.
01:07:55:20 - 01:07:58:01
Hal
What if the company is losing money, right?
01:07:58:01 - 01:07:58:19
And not my.
01:07:58:19 - 01:08:00:07
Hal
Fault I'm bringing in lost money?
01:08:00:07 - 01:08:08:07
Well, you're the one that encouraged me or almost forced me into, bringing on two more reps, and I can't afford those two reps, and I'm making their numbers.
01:08:08:11 - 01:08:12:12
Hal
He goes, yeah, but look at our gross. We've got, you know, we've we've up 20%.
01:08:12:12 - 01:08:19:22
I'm like, yeah, but we're losing money on that 20%. You know, we need to change. So Mike is focused on the EBITDA.
01:08:20:03 - 01:08:20:09
Hal
Yeah.
01:08:20:11 - 01:08:22:15
Is he now is profiting from the EBITDA?
01:08:22:15 - 01:08:24:03
Hal
Not just yeah.
01:08:24:05 - 01:08:25:03
Jamey
He's thinking like oh.
01:08:25:05 - 01:08:26:09
He's thinking like an owner. Yeah.
01:08:26:11 - 01:08:28:12
Hal
Yeah. So that was that was the I think.
01:08:28:12 - 01:08:32:21
Probably the most important decision for us scaling.
01:08:32:23 - 01:08:34:05
Hal
To allow us to grow.
01:08:34:06 - 01:08:34:22
Jamey
That's amazing.
01:08:35:03 - 01:08:35:18
Yeah.
01:08:35:20 - 01:08:44:01
Jamey
What about the flip side of that. Like mistakes. Mistakes like things were like yeah this we should not have done this.
01:08:44:03 - 01:08:45:21
Done.
01:08:45:23 - 01:08:49:04
Jamey
Learn those, learn this the hard lesson the hard way.
01:08:49:06 - 01:08:49:12
Hal
Yeah.
01:08:49:12 - 01:08:51:08
So I'll touch on it.
01:08:51:10 - 01:08:54:10
Hal
So.
01:08:54:12 - 01:08:55:15
I brought on I was.
01:08:55:17 - 01:08:56:19
Hal
I was.
01:08:56:21 - 01:09:01:12
Back in 2011, we were doing the, magazine, and our web presence was.
01:09:01:15 - 01:09:02:02
Hal
There was just.
01:09:02:03 - 01:09:03:00
We had none to.
01:09:03:00 - 01:09:04:23
Hal
Speak. We had a website.
01:09:05:00 - 01:09:08:02
And, and if there's something I liked.
01:09:08:04 - 01:09:09:12
Hal
Somebody else was doing, I'd call and I.
01:09:09:12 - 01:09:10:08
Tell the guy, and then.
01:09:10:12 - 01:09:12:01
Hal
I'd get a quote, and they produce it.
01:09:12:01 - 01:09:20:11
And then the. And I'd pay them and, but I wasn't leading at all, and I wasn't looking forward. And so it was just kind of a, you know, I was doing the.
01:09:20:11 - 01:09:21:13
Hal
Absolute.
01:09:21:15 - 01:09:22:20
Bare minimum.
01:09:22:22 - 01:09:25:11
Hal
Which is what a lot of people were doing.
01:09:25:13 - 01:09:26:03
So I said, I need.
01:09:26:03 - 01:09:27:10
Hal
To do something more here.
01:09:27:12 - 01:09:28:04
I couldn't afford.
01:09:28:04 - 01:09:30:00
Hal
To go pay.
01:09:30:02 - 01:09:31:09
A lot of money to bring on.
01:09:31:14 - 01:09:32:19
Hal
Somebody to do it.
01:09:32:21 - 01:09:34:09
And so.
01:09:34:11 - 01:09:38:06
Hal
The web guy was working with us, and I tell him, make a deal.
01:09:38:08 - 01:09:39:15
On preneur.
01:09:39:17 - 01:09:40:11
Hal
Let's see if I can do.
01:09:40:11 - 01:09:41:07
This and make it.
01:09:41:07 - 01:09:43:03
Hal
Work for us both.
01:09:43:05 - 01:09:47:20
I don't want to. The relationship we have doesn't work for me anymore. Where I tell you to do it, and you send me a.
01:09:47:20 - 01:09:48:10
Hal
Bill, and you.
01:09:48:10 - 01:09:49:09
Do it nice to me, Bill.
01:09:49:09 - 01:09:53:22
Hal
And I said, I want somebody to be forward thinking about this. I want to be thinking about how we.
01:09:53:22 - 01:09:57:14
Can make money, how we can monetize digital.
01:09:57:16 - 01:09:59:06
Hal
How to what do we have to do.
01:09:59:08 - 01:10:00:03
Is I'm not a digital.
01:10:00:03 - 01:10:00:22
Hal
Guy.
01:10:01:00 - 01:10:07:01
At the time. And I didn't have, you know, and I was so busy doing everything else, I couldn't do them both anyway.
01:10:07:03 - 01:10:09:05
Hal
And so I said, I'll tell you what I'll do.
01:10:09:10 - 01:10:12:11
I'll bring you on, and I'm not going to pay you anymore.
01:10:12:13 - 01:10:12:20
Hal
But if.
01:10:12:20 - 01:10:13:09
You want to do.
01:10:13:09 - 01:10:23:03
Hal
This, I will split digital revenue with you and. But there's a catch. You have to. We have to bring. We have.
01:10:23:03 - 01:10:24:23
To bring in this much revenue in the first three.
01:10:24:23 - 01:10:27:16
Hal
Years, and then.
01:10:27:18 - 01:10:29:06
And and then after.
01:10:29:06 - 01:10:32:06
Hal
That, every year after that, you have to bring in this much. I say you.
01:10:32:06 - 01:10:32:18
We, my.
01:10:32:18 - 01:10:33:14
Hal
Salespeople will sell it.
01:10:33:17 - 01:10:35:12
Jamey
Yeah.
01:10:35:13 - 01:10:38:16
And, you know, and you're going to help lead them and then you're going to, you're.
01:10:38:16 - 01:10:41:13
Hal
Going to put the products together that will allow people to.
01:10:41:13 - 01:10:42:15
Buy it. I mean, if.
01:10:42:17 - 01:10:45:13
Hal
You got to have the opportunities, you have to have a create those.
01:10:45:15 - 01:10:47:14
All funded. I'll do.
01:10:47:16 - 01:10:48:02
Hal
Most of the.
01:10:48:02 - 01:10:50:23
Funding. And then.
01:10:51:01 - 01:10:51:05
Hal
Because.
01:10:51:05 - 01:10:52:14
There wasn't much there to fund, I.
01:10:52:14 - 01:10:54:00
Hal
Already had the salespeople.
01:10:54:02 - 01:10:54:22
Right.
01:10:55:00 - 01:10:56:04
Hal
So.
01:10:56:06 - 01:10:56:16
And most.
01:10:56:16 - 01:10:57:14
Hal
Of the stuff that was going to be.
01:10:57:14 - 01:10:58:13
Done was going to be done on his.
01:10:58:13 - 01:11:02:06
Hal
End. Yeah. Digitally. Well, we hit three.
01:11:02:06 - 01:11:03:08
Year mark and the number.
01:11:03:14 - 01:11:04:05
Hal
We hadn't hit.
01:11:04:05 - 01:11:04:15
That number.
01:11:04:15 - 01:11:07:04
Hal
Yet, but I didn't.
01:11:07:06 - 01:11:14:03
Cancel the contract. And then we had the next year and it didn't hit that number. And then next one, it didn't hit the number. But I continued to.
01:11:14:03 - 01:11:15:11
Hal
Have the relationship.
01:11:15:13 - 01:11:16:15
01:11:16:17 - 01:11:19:09
Hal
And, you know, but I could have.
01:11:19:09 - 01:11:19:23
Done it.
01:11:19:23 - 01:11:20:20
Hal
Myself.
01:11:21:01 - 01:11:26:08
And hired someone and paid them, and during that entire period.
01:11:26:10 - 01:11:27:07
Hal
The reason I.
01:11:27:07 - 01:11:28:17
Didn't is because I wanted to get.
01:11:28:17 - 01:11:30:09
Hal
There faster.
01:11:30:11 - 01:11:37:19
And so we weren't going to get there faster. We just ended up didn't have didn't happen. And I finally had to terminate the relationship. And when I.
01:11:37:19 - 01:11:39:23
Hal
Did,
01:11:40:01 - 01:11:42:16
He turned around and,
01:11:42:18 - 01:11:43:09
Hal
We had a.
01:11:43:11 - 01:11:53:03
Binding arbitration agreement, and he ended up filing an arbitration, suit against us. For wrongful termination. And.
01:11:53:03 - 01:11:54:02
Hal
So.
01:11:54:04 - 01:11:54:20
Hindsight, I.
01:11:54:20 - 01:11:56:12
Hal
Wouldn't do that type of a deal.
01:11:56:12 - 01:11:59:22
Again. You gotta know who you're working with.
01:12:00:00 - 01:12:12:03
Jamey
Do you think it was like a partner who you're yoking yourself with, or like it was destined to fail? Or, like, you know, the the the lesson gleaned from that lesson?
01:12:12:05 - 01:12:13:21
Hal
Well, yeah.
01:12:13:23 - 01:12:16:00
I should have done a background report.
01:12:16:02 - 01:12:22:20
Hal
First of all. Anytime you doing something like that, highly rested, you know, he seemed like such a great guy.
01:12:22:23 - 01:12:26:00
Jamey
Yeah. Because you're you're essentially going into a partnership.
01:12:26:01 - 01:12:27:15
Hal
It was. It was like, hey, this is.
01:12:27:15 - 01:12:28:11
A win win.
01:12:28:11 - 01:12:31:00
Hal
Hey, all ships rise with the tide.
01:12:31:01 - 01:12:36:20
I don't mind if you make a lot of money. And I want my friend. I want you to make a lot of money. Because if you make money, I make you money. I don't mind splitting 50% of.
01:12:36:20 - 01:12:37:04
Hal
It with you.
01:12:37:04 - 01:12:38:22
I mean, but I need to.
01:12:38:22 - 01:12:40:21
Hal
Do it quickly. Yeah. So what.
01:12:40:21 - 01:12:41:19
I didn't know is that.
01:12:41:19 - 01:12:43:13
Hal
He was,
01:12:43:15 - 01:12:48:04
You know, coming out. He was actually in the middle of a bankruptcy. And, you know, he had.
01:12:48:04 - 01:12:49:06
Hal
Failed miserably at the.
01:12:49:06 - 01:12:50:09
Agency when I came in.
01:12:50:15 - 01:12:52:08
Hal
He had this incredible space.
01:12:52:08 - 01:12:55:06
Downtown, and, he never mentioned the.
01:12:55:06 - 01:12:57:06
Hal
Bankruptcy at all. I.
01:12:57:06 - 01:12:58:20
Later found out.
01:12:58:22 - 01:13:00:19
Hal
You know, his partner.
01:13:00:21 - 01:13:01:08
Was.
01:13:01:08 - 01:13:02:15
Hal
Who they split. He actually was.
01:13:02:15 - 01:13:09:06
Selling the company, and, and and the guy didn't end up buying it. The company did end up buying the agency.
01:13:09:06 - 01:13:10:03
Hal
That he had.
01:13:10:05 - 01:13:17:10
And they brought on the one of the partners, but they didn't bring on this guy. And and that.
01:13:17:10 - 01:13:19:11
Hal
Was a huge deal.
01:13:19:13 - 01:13:20:09
They didn't want him.
01:13:20:09 - 01:13:23:04
Hal
Because he was so difficult to work with. Yeah.
01:13:23:06 - 01:13:23:21
You know, and so.
01:13:23:21 - 01:13:25:02
Hal
For.
01:13:25:04 - 01:13:28:04
For me, if I would have done this again, first of all.
01:13:28:06 - 01:13:28:17
Hal
If I would have.
01:13:28:17 - 01:13:31:11
Just done that by just on a background check.
01:13:31:11 - 01:13:32:01
Hal
Yeah.
01:13:32:03 - 01:13:34:09
I would have known that he was in the middle of a bankruptcy.
01:13:34:11 - 01:13:35:18
Hal
Yeah, it would have. I would have.
01:13:35:18 - 01:13:36:02
Put on the.
01:13:36:02 - 01:13:36:15
Hal
Brakes.
01:13:36:15 - 01:14:03:15
Jamey
Fitting a lot of different pressure you have in partnerships are hard. They can be a beautiful thing and they can be like just where your values are at and how you see business and how you see family and how you see money and how you like, have great experiences and heard back things, experiences with it. But it's a hard thing because you're like, because you're you're tying yourself, you know, to another person, to another, another thing.
01:14:03:15 - 01:14:09:04
Jamey
And it's just sometimes it's good for a season and then it's it's not. Yeah. But that's.
01:14:09:06 - 01:14:10:22
You know what I'm going to say.
01:14:10:22 - 01:14:12:12
Hal
About this? I thought about.
01:14:12:12 - 01:14:15:16
This and I didn't know if you'd hit on it or not, but.
01:14:15:18 - 01:14:19:19
Hal
It has to do with your gut feeling. And, you.
01:14:19:19 - 01:14:21:10
Know, you're saying judging people and it.
01:14:21:10 - 01:14:21:18
Hal
Feels.
01:14:21:18 - 01:14:22:22
Right. And.
01:14:23:00 - 01:14:23:11
Hal
The heart.
01:14:23:11 - 01:14:29:03
Of someone, you know, and you think, you know, people,
01:14:29:05 - 01:14:32:11
Hal
And so, one of your questions.
01:14:32:11 - 01:14:33:15
In your, in your.
01:14:33:17 - 01:14:34:14
Hal
Questionnaire was.
01:14:34:19 - 01:14:43:12
What's most important thing in your life? And, anyway, one of one for me, one of the things is marry my wife. And so, I had been.
01:14:43:12 - 01:14:44:08
Hal
Divorced before.
01:14:44:08 - 01:14:50:17
And, and I was going to get remarried at some point. I was going to get remarried.
01:14:50:17 - 01:14:51:17
Hal
I knew I was.
01:14:51:17 - 01:14:53:04
Divorced, and I.
01:14:53:06 - 01:14:53:21
Hal
Out of the divorce, I.
01:14:53:21 - 01:14:54:10
Didn't want to be.
01:14:54:10 - 01:14:55:11
Hal
Out of.
01:14:55:13 - 01:14:56:18
And, and so.
01:14:57:00 - 01:14:57:03
Hal
I.
01:14:57:03 - 01:14:58:19
Had spent a lot of money with the counselor and trying.
01:14:58:19 - 01:14:59:11
Hal
To keep it all.
01:14:59:11 - 01:15:03:08
Working. And so I went to the counselor and I said.
01:15:03:10 - 01:15:04:12
Hal
Hey.
01:15:04:14 - 01:15:13:05
I need your help. And he like, well, hold on, you're not even in a relationship. What do you need my help for? And I go, I need to know now. I need to have some tips. What can I do.
01:15:13:06 - 01:15:14:11
Hal
To better.
01:15:14:11 - 01:15:16:12
To give myself a better chance next time?
01:15:16:12 - 01:15:17:06
Jamey
Yeah, yeah.
01:15:17:06 - 01:15:19:02
Hal
So he goes, well.
01:15:19:04 - 01:15:20:21
My daughter's getting married.
01:15:20:23 - 01:15:24:11
Hal
In this year. And I told her that.
01:15:24:11 - 01:15:25:12
Her and her husband had to.
01:15:25:12 - 01:15:27:20
Hal
Take the MMPI.
01:15:27:22 - 01:15:29:21
Minnesota multiphase personality.
01:15:29:21 - 01:15:31:10
Jamey
Test. Okay, I've never heard of that.
01:15:31:12 - 01:15:32:16
And and so.
01:15:32:16 - 01:15:33:01
Hal
They took.
01:15:33:01 - 01:15:34:02
That and I said well, well.
01:15:34:04 - 01:15:36:15
Hal
What's that about. And he's like, well it it lets.
01:15:36:15 - 01:15:37:01
You know a.
01:15:37:01 - 01:15:37:14
Hal
Lot about the.
01:15:37:14 - 01:15:41:19
Person. Yeah. Because we all can look good on the outside.
01:15:41:21 - 01:15:42:03
Hal
Yeah.
01:15:42:03 - 01:15:45:20
We can all have great hearts. But maybe they weren't.
01:15:45:20 - 01:15:51:03
Hal
Always that way. Maybe they were, maybe they were. They you know, they have some baggage there that you.
01:15:51:03 - 01:15:51:12
Don't know.
01:15:51:12 - 01:15:54:08
Hal
About. So.
01:15:54:10 - 01:15:56:22
On our third date to me on our third date.
01:15:57:00 - 01:16:01:01
Hal
I said, hey, this is going well. And I said, I've got two.
01:16:01:01 - 01:16:02:16
Kids, young kids, and I.
01:16:02:18 - 01:16:04:02
Hal
I can't afford to.
01:16:04:04 - 01:16:05:21
Jamey
You know, risk risks are a bit higher.
01:16:06:00 - 01:16:07:07
Hal
So he I said, if.
01:16:07:07 - 01:16:14:23
You want to go on a fourth date with me, we're going to have to take the MMPI. And so before we went on our fourth.
01:16:14:23 - 01:16:15:09
Hal
Date.
01:16:15:12 - 01:16:21:03
She and I went in and took a MMPI, and I call it the Crazy test.
01:16:21:05 - 01:16:22:01
Hal
So I.
01:16:22:01 - 01:16:23:02
Go I've never taken it.
01:16:23:02 - 01:16:23:22
Hal
Before, and I highly.
01:16:23:22 - 01:16:24:14
Recommend this, by.
01:16:24:14 - 01:16:26:03
Hal
The way, I had never taken before.
01:16:26:03 - 01:16:29:22
So she will know if I'm crazy. I'll know if you're crazy.
01:16:30:00 - 01:16:30:15
Hal
And so as. And if.
01:16:30:15 - 01:16:32:05
You don't want to do it, I understand, but I can't.
01:16:32:05 - 01:16:33:03
Hal
Move forward.
01:16:33:05 - 01:16:34:00
01:16:34:02 - 01:16:34:23
Hal
Lady, you are crazy.
01:16:34:23 - 01:16:35:20
And that's why.
01:16:35:20 - 01:16:37:05
Hal
You want to take it. Yeah.
01:16:37:07 - 01:16:37:20
And so we ended.
01:16:37:20 - 01:16:38:15
Hal
Up taking the tests.
01:16:38:15 - 01:16:46:11
And, and, and it was wonderful. And, there were some things I found out about her I didn't know.
01:16:46:13 - 01:16:47:11
Hal
And some things about me.
01:16:47:11 - 01:16:48:21
That she didn't know.
01:16:48:23 - 01:16:51:06
Hal
But at least we knew what those were.
01:16:51:08 - 01:16:54:13
So I can't say now. Oh. I didn't know that when I married you.
01:16:54:15 - 01:16:55:08
Hal
Yeah, right.
01:16:55:08 - 01:16:57:15
It does make a difference, because I never bring up that.
01:16:57:15 - 01:17:04:03
Jamey
Yeah. Having having some sort of object of outside read is helpful.
01:17:04:08 - 01:17:06:18
Hal
Yeah, yeah. You can look at somebody.
01:17:06:23 - 01:17:08:21
And they look great. I mean, we're human.
01:17:09:00 - 01:17:10:06
Jamey
Yeah, we're all human.
01:17:10:06 - 01:17:11:17
And.
01:17:11:18 - 01:17:15:01
Hal
And so there's stuff that we have that makes us, the way we are.
01:17:15:01 - 01:17:15:17
And there's stuff that.
01:17:15:17 - 01:17:20:01
Hal
I thought, when you fall in love with somebody, you're stupid. I mean, it's just right.
01:17:20:01 - 01:17:21:23
I mean, we make stupid decisions. It's our heart.
01:17:21:23 - 01:17:22:14
Hal
Yeah.
01:17:22:16 - 01:17:23:18
And you don't know.
01:17:24:00 - 01:17:25:16
Hal
That there were some stuff there that.
01:17:25:16 - 01:17:26:19
Hadn't been dealt with and needed.
01:17:26:19 - 01:17:27:20
Hal
To be dealt with. Yeah.
01:17:27:20 - 01:17:29:08
It's going to affect you in a big way.
01:17:29:09 - 01:17:31:02
Hal
Yeah, it's going to affect the way you raise kids.
01:17:31:03 - 01:17:33:18
Jamey
And so you're saying don't trust your gut.
01:17:33:20 - 01:17:34:12
Hal
Yeah I'm saying.
01:17:34:13 - 01:17:38:02
Don't I said I'm saying yeah, you need to do more than just trust.
01:17:38:02 - 01:18:05:04
Jamey
Your gut. Yeah. And yeah. For business. That's so true. Like in general, the problem with being a business leader is generally when you're hiring someone, you need someone now, right? Like you're in that position. I need to get my digital going now. Yeah. Someone quit or someone fired her. Like I have this opportunity. There's an urgency and, you know, people always say, hire slow, fire fast.
01:18:05:04 - 01:18:05:11
Hal
Yeah.
01:18:05:15 - 01:18:18:13
Jamey
And it's like, I've heard that a hundred times. I've told people that a hundred times. I have not done that 800 times. And like my it's my biggest mistakes in business is not taking the time and not calling the references.
01:18:18:13 - 01:18:20:01
Hal
Not glad to have company.
01:18:20:03 - 01:18:26:23
Jamey
Yeah. And then and then not firing soon enough. Like, because I do think with your gut, like, you know, very quickly.
01:18:27:04 - 01:18:27:22
Hal
Yeah.
01:18:28:00 - 01:18:28:22
Jamey
It's not the right fit.
01:18:29:01 - 01:18:30:15
Hal
But you keep them because it's it's.
01:18:30:15 - 01:18:32:16
Personal. I don't have the time to replace them.
01:18:32:16 - 01:18:54:15
Jamey
Yeah. You don't have time. And it's fire sucks. Yeah. It's literally the most miserable sad thing I hate like, so there's this emotional level that's just like, yeah, but I would say so, so so so so, so many of my business mistakes have not do not taking that advice, not taking my time, not doing the research. Not yet.
01:18:54:15 - 01:18:59:00
Jamey
Also not acting quickly enough when it's like this is not the right person.
01:18:59:04 - 01:19:00:00
Hal
Yeah.
01:19:00:02 - 01:19:04:00
Jamey
Which is hard. It's easier. I'm burning my hand on that stove.
01:19:04:01 - 01:19:06:18
Hal
You know, it's one of those, you know what to do.
01:19:06:20 - 01:19:07:12
And sometimes.
01:19:07:12 - 01:19:08:08
Hal
There are excuses why you.
01:19:08:08 - 01:19:10:23
Jamey
Shouldn't. Yeah.
01:19:11:00 - 01:19:12:00
And I.
01:19:12:02 - 01:19:13:12
Hal
You know, firing as hard.
01:19:13:12 - 01:19:15:04
Doing, you know, reprimanding employees.
01:19:15:04 - 01:19:17:17
Hal
Is hard. I have less of a.
01:19:17:18 - 01:19:19:05
An issue with that even though it's not.
01:19:19:05 - 01:19:22:22
Hal
Popular because you're a people person too. So if you have.
01:19:22:22 - 01:19:25:23
Somebody that works for you, you know their wife, you know their kids, you know, you know.
01:19:25:23 - 01:19:27:11
Hal
It's part of who we are. We want you.
01:19:27:12 - 01:19:30:19
We want a family of people working with us. We're a family company, kind of. And.
01:19:30:21 - 01:19:32:16
Hal
So you want that relationship.
01:19:32:16 - 01:19:37:12
And then when you have the race up, now you're you're talking about they're going to be without a job.
01:19:37:12 - 01:19:38:22
Hal
It's almost Christmas.
01:19:39:00 - 01:19:41:12
Right. And then, you know, I can't do it now. Yeah.
01:19:41:12 - 01:19:43:07
Hal
And his wife just lost her job.
01:19:43:07 - 01:19:43:22
And you know.
01:19:43:23 - 01:19:44:07
Hal
Yeah.
01:19:44:11 - 01:19:45:08
01:19:45:10 - 01:19:47:08
Hal
But for us.
01:19:47:10 - 01:19:52:02
At the bottom, at the end of the day, if having that person on board.
01:19:52:04 - 01:19:52:16
Hal
You know, is.
01:19:52:22 - 01:19:54:05
Threatening your business.
01:19:54:05 - 01:19:55:04
Hal
Success.
01:19:55:07 - 01:19:57:18
And you have to do it, and, and sometimes I.
01:19:57:18 - 01:19:58:23
Hal
Justify by.
01:19:59:00 - 01:20:00:06
Saying, you know.
01:20:00:08 - 01:20:02:06
Hal
I can work with this person.
01:20:02:08 - 01:20:03:15
You know, I can make this work.
01:20:03:17 - 01:20:07:19
Hal
Yeah. But is it the perfect person for for the position?
01:20:07:19 - 01:20:09:18
Probably not. It's probably not. They're.
01:20:09:20 - 01:20:10:06
Hal
You know.
01:20:10:06 - 01:20:13:14
They're not, they get it, maybe.
01:20:13:14 - 01:20:14:05
Hal
But.
01:20:14:07 - 01:20:14:18
01:20:15:00 - 01:20:34:12
Jamey
Yeah. You know, one of the things I've been asking, one of the exercises I've been doing in my head the past several months, is, is just saying to myself, if I was giving someone else advice for what I say. Yeah, because we sustained flip the script, or if I took a motions out of it, what would I what should I do?
01:20:34:14 - 01:20:47:12
Jamey
Because when you're so close to it, again, there's this human element. If you do like hair care and it's like, if I was giving someone else advice and it wasn't my company, what would I tell them to do? And it kind of like gives you that different.
01:20:47:13 - 01:20:49:20
Hal
You know, the.
01:20:49:22 - 01:20:50:13
Interaction.
01:20:50:13 - 01:20:52:04
Hal
KPIs. Yeah.
01:20:52:06 - 01:20:54:17
And accountability to me, that's one of the.
01:20:54:17 - 01:20:58:12
Hal
Best things you can do, because if.
01:20:58:12 - 01:20:58:20
It's not.
01:20:58:20 - 01:21:00:06
Hal
Working.
01:21:00:08 - 01:21:02:16
Sometimes it's a personality thing. It's not working. But oftentimes.
01:21:02:16 - 01:21:03:03
Hal
If it's.
01:21:03:03 - 01:21:03:21
Jamey
Objective.
01:21:03:23 - 01:21:04:17
Hal
It's it's kind of.
01:21:04:17 - 01:21:09:23
Jamey
Like, hey, we didn't hit the numbers after three years, but I'm going to give you another year. Yeah. Hayden hit the number one.
01:21:10:01 - 01:21:14:06
Hal
Well, but the point is, I mean there are other jobs like art director. Right?
01:21:14:06 - 01:21:14:21
I mean, that's kind.
01:21:14:21 - 01:21:15:04
Hal
Of.
01:21:15:06 - 01:21:15:21
That's not the.
01:21:15:21 - 01:21:16:05
Jamey
More so.
01:21:16:09 - 01:21:17:09
Hal
It's not a hard.
01:21:17:11 - 01:21:18:07
Hard number there.
01:21:18:07 - 01:21:19:06
Hal
So.
01:21:19:08 - 01:21:19:20
When you have.
01:21:19:20 - 01:21:27:00
Hal
Hard KPIs that related to numbers, it's easy to say. And then it's very it's easier because you're like, hey, you. We didn't.
01:21:27:04 - 01:21:27:12
Make.
01:21:27:12 - 01:21:28:00
Hal
It.
01:21:28:01 - 01:21:29:08
You didn't make it. We didn't make it.
01:21:29:13 - 01:21:30:02
Hal
You know what?
01:21:30:03 - 01:21:30:21
Maybe it's not.
01:21:30:21 - 01:21:31:06
Hal
You.
01:21:31:06 - 01:21:34:16
But with you in this position, we haven't done it.
01:21:34:16 - 01:21:37:00
Hal
So I've got to bring somebody else on. That's easier to.
01:21:37:00 - 01:21:38:06
Do when you have good.
01:21:38:06 - 01:21:39:11
Hal
KPIs in place.
01:21:39:12 - 01:21:40:08
When you don't.
01:21:40:13 - 01:21:41:06
Hal
It's really.
01:21:41:06 - 01:21:42:15
Hard because now it's now. Now it's.
01:21:42:15 - 01:21:43:07
Hal
It's like.
01:21:43:09 - 01:21:44:07
I'm not doing.
01:21:44:09 - 01:21:44:13
Hal
Well.
01:21:44:13 - 01:21:50:18
What have I not done that you wanted? You know, and if it's, you know, the artwork's not just quite. It's not quite good enough.
01:21:50:21 - 01:21:52:01
Hal
Yeah. That's subjective.
01:21:52:02 - 01:21:52:22
Jamey
Yeah, that is subjective.
01:21:52:22 - 01:21:53:11
Hal
It's harder.
01:21:53:11 - 01:21:54:05
Because they can't understand.
01:21:54:05 - 01:22:01:09
Jamey
It. That's a hard thing about creative world photography. Graphic design. Like it's harder to put KPIs to those things.
01:22:01:09 - 01:22:02:00
Hal
Yeah it is.
01:22:02:03 - 01:22:34:20
Jamey
It's it's much harder. Okay. I want to pivot a little bit because we talked we was you're coming in. We kind of talked about it. It's a part of writing stories, part of covering things, part of like choosing who do we feature? Who do we not feature having awards. You you have several awards. Different things that you do is I, I would assume you have made people mad by covering a story or by not covering a story, or by taking a stance or having an opinion feature, or like, well, I walk me through like how how you have dealt with some of that.
01:22:35:00 - 01:22:56:16
Jamey
Are you some of the like you? Because again, I think you you are a social person. You like people to like you. But how how have you have you had to get thicker skin and you're also kind of public because you're like you, the guy behind this big old magazine that everybody in Fort Worth has.
01:22:56:18 - 01:23:07:08
Hal
There are people that don't care what people think of them. And in a lot of ways I respect those people. I appreciate the people because yeah, they have that ability.
01:23:07:10 - 01:23:09:13
And I'm just not one of them.
01:23:09:15 - 01:23:10:09
Jamey
I'm not either.
01:23:10:09 - 01:23:11:16
Hal
I just care, I care.
01:23:11:16 - 01:23:13:19
Jamey
About like Elon Musk. He just does not care.
01:23:13:19 - 01:23:17:06
Hal
He doesn't care that he doesn't care. That's his, you know.
01:23:17:08 - 01:23:19:04
Jamey
But you're not you're not one of those people.
01:23:19:06 - 01:23:20:14
No.
01:23:20:16 - 01:23:21:06
Hal
He's part of.
01:23:21:06 - 01:23:25:14
That's a spectrum thing for him. Yeah. I'm not one of those guys, and I wish I.
01:23:25:14 - 01:23:26:02
Hal
Was a little bit.
01:23:26:02 - 01:23:27:08
Sometimes.
01:23:27:10 - 01:23:28:10
Hal
But, yeah, that's.
01:23:28:12 - 01:23:29:15
01:23:29:17 - 01:23:34:00
Hal
That's hard. Yeah.
01:23:34:02 - 01:23:37:07
I don't know.
01:23:37:09 - 01:23:38:21
Hal
Bring me back. Bring me back.
01:23:39:01 - 01:23:39:17
Because I might.
01:23:39:18 - 01:23:41:02
Jamey
But just just just do it.
01:23:41:02 - 01:23:42:03
Musk can then I.
01:23:42:05 - 01:23:42:10
Hal
Just.
01:23:42:15 - 01:23:50:14
Jamey
Dealing with. You're going to you may. You've probably made a lot of people mad. Yes. Either from articles or from lack of articles.
01:23:50:16 - 01:23:51:16
Hal
Yeah.
01:23:51:18 - 01:23:53:03
And I think you were saying, well, how do you.
01:23:53:04 - 01:23:54:08
Hal
How do you deal with that? Yeah.
01:23:54:12 - 01:23:57:02
01:23:57:04 - 01:24:01:15
Hal
I mean, there's some there are some, some examples out there. We try to I try not to.
01:24:01:17 - 01:24:06:23
We are for one thing, we do this. We are one of the, that our mission is to celebrate for, to make it better.
01:24:07:05 - 01:24:07:19
Hal
Okay.
01:24:07:21 - 01:24:10:05
And so we have an opportunity to do negative stories.
01:24:10:05 - 01:24:13:13
Hal
We could, the Fort Worth weekly, they'll do whatever.
01:24:13:13 - 01:24:14:18
They can for a headline. Right.
01:24:14:18 - 01:24:17:11
Hal
If people will buy it, they're going to structure it or, you know.
01:24:17:11 - 01:24:18:11
Position in such a way.
01:24:18:11 - 01:24:20:00
Hal
That it's to, it's going.
01:24:20:00 - 01:24:21:11
To bring in people and they're going to pick.
01:24:21:11 - 01:24:22:19
Jamey
It up for some feathers.
01:24:22:21 - 01:24:24:12
Hal
Yeah. Because they, they're.
01:24:24:12 - 01:24:25:16
They're not getting sources.
01:24:25:16 - 01:24:26:02
Hal
For their.
01:24:26:04 - 01:24:27:06
You know, material.
01:24:27:07 - 01:24:29:09
Hal
Necessarily. You know, credible sources.
01:24:29:09 - 01:24:33:09
Jamey
Say I've been a victim of, of the weekly a few times where they did this stuff. That wasn't.
01:24:33:09 - 01:24:34:04
Hal
True. Yeah.
01:24:34:04 - 01:24:34:22
Jamey
They manifesto.
01:24:34:22 - 01:24:35:03
Hal
Yeah.
01:24:35:08 - 01:24:39:00
So we make sure we don't do we? You know, we have to.
01:24:39:00 - 01:24:41:01
Hal
Attribute everything we do.
01:24:41:03 - 01:24:43:06
But we make decisions on what.
01:24:43:06 - 01:24:43:18
Hal
Stories.
01:24:43:18 - 01:24:46:11
We're going to run. You know.
01:24:46:14 - 01:24:47:05
Hal
The.
01:24:47:07 - 01:24:49:12
Shadow over Sundance Square was one, and I brought.
01:24:49:12 - 01:24:51:00
Hal
A copy. You saw it earlier, and yeah.
01:24:51:00 - 01:24:53:16
Jamey
That was with all the 2020, like post-Covid.
01:24:53:16 - 01:24:54:07
Hal
Post Covid.
01:24:54:10 - 01:24:55:07
Jamey
Sundance drama.
01:24:55:07 - 01:24:57:06
Downtown Sundance, there's so much talk.
01:24:57:06 - 01:24:57:23
Hal
About what was.
01:24:57:23 - 01:25:01:01
Going on and no one knew what was happening. And.
01:25:01:03 - 01:25:02:08
Hal
That's,
01:25:02:10 - 01:25:02:21
And, and.
01:25:02:21 - 01:25:04:06
Hal
Sasha had started.
01:25:04:09 - 01:25:05:11
Fine Line and they.
01:25:05:11 - 01:25:06:00
Hal
Most people.
01:25:06:00 - 01:25:06:12
Didn't know that.
01:25:06:14 - 01:25:06:20
Hal
That.
01:25:06:23 - 01:25:08:03
They now owned.
01:25:08:07 - 01:25:09:00
Hal
38 blocks.
01:25:09:00 - 01:25:09:20
Of Sundance and.
01:25:10:01 - 01:25:12:18
Hal
The other businesses. And the brothers were out.
01:25:12:20 - 01:25:14:07
They only owned.
01:25:14:09 - 01:25:15:11
Hal
The towers.
01:25:15:13 - 01:25:19:12
And a lot of people didn't know that. And all this was happening, and.
01:25:19:12 - 01:25:22:00
Hal
People were being, you know, leases were going.
01:25:22:00 - 01:25:23:06
Away. And.
01:25:23:08 - 01:25:25:03
Hal
There was just a huge change.
01:25:25:05 - 01:25:27:11
And everyone was talking about it.
01:25:27:17 - 01:25:28:22
Hal
Yeah, everybody.
01:25:28:22 - 01:25:29:21
But no one wanted to.
01:25:29:21 - 01:25:31:04
Hal
Write about,
01:25:31:06 - 01:25:32:03
01:25:32:05 - 01:25:36:07
Hal
Because a lot of, you know, just it was it's one of those taboo topics. We love.
01:25:36:07 - 01:25:36:20
Our Sundance.
01:25:36:20 - 01:25:38:12
Hal
Square. It's one of.
01:25:38:12 - 01:25:39:16
The best things.
01:25:39:18 - 01:25:40:12
Hal
The bastards have.
01:25:40:12 - 01:25:41:04
Ever done.
01:25:41:04 - 01:25:43:21
Hal
It has changed our city, more.
01:25:43:21 - 01:25:46:15
Significantly than anything done in the last.
01:25:46:17 - 01:25:50:12
Hal
40 years. You know, stockyards.
01:25:50:14 - 01:25:54:04
It's been there, and it's great. And what they've done with that is amazing.
01:25:54:06 - 01:25:55:03
Hal
But this is new.
01:25:55:03 - 01:25:57:05
And what they did at Sundance was.
01:25:57:07 - 01:25:59:12
Hal
So we have so much appreciation for what they do.
01:25:59:14 - 01:26:00:14
And what they did.
01:26:00:16 - 01:26:01:01
Hal
But it was.
01:26:01:01 - 01:26:04:09
Changing, and everybody knew there, and there was something happening, and they couldn't.
01:26:04:11 - 01:26:05:12
Hal
Figure it out. And.
01:26:05:14 - 01:26:13:03
And the masses weren't talking or Ed wasn't talking. And society had become much more involved. And so no one would do the story. No.
01:26:13:03 - 01:26:14:13
Hal
With their story. So.
01:26:14:15 - 01:26:16:22
We finally said, you know what.
01:26:17:00 - 01:26:19:16
Hal
Our, our objective is to celebrate Fort.
01:26:19:16 - 01:26:20:06
Worth and make it.
01:26:20:06 - 01:26:21:11
Hal
Better.
01:26:21:12 - 01:26:22:04
And so the.
01:26:22:04 - 01:26:25:03
Hal
Justification here was.
01:26:25:05 - 01:26:25:16
We need.
01:26:25:16 - 01:26:26:01
Hal
To talk.
01:26:26:01 - 01:26:27:08
About it. We want to get.
01:26:27:10 - 01:26:28:12
Hal
The bases.
01:26:28:14 - 01:26:30:03
Involved. We want to get them to come out.
01:26:30:03 - 01:26:30:15
Hal
And give us.
01:26:30:15 - 01:26:31:18
The vision.
01:26:31:19 - 01:26:32:19
Hal
They have, because.
01:26:33:00 - 01:26:36:18
That's a problem. No one knows the vision. Yeah. And if we knew the vision.
01:26:36:18 - 01:26:38:04
Hal
We could probably.
01:26:38:06 - 01:26:41:15
Go along with it. But you're not talking anymore. So we didn't know because they.
01:26:41:15 - 01:26:43:01
Hal
Used to tell people what they were.
01:26:43:01 - 01:26:46:01
Doing. And, you know, parking is going away.
01:26:46:01 - 01:26:52:21
Hal
It was like, well, that's that's crazy. That stinks. I hate that. I can't believe you're taking parking away. That's horrible.
01:26:52:23 - 01:26:54:04
And I you know.
01:26:54:06 - 01:26:54:20
Hal
What I said.
01:26:54:20 - 01:26:55:17
As a businessman?
01:26:55:17 - 01:26:56:18
Hal
I said, okay.
01:26:56:20 - 01:27:03:14
They've been supplementing parking for ever. And so they're paying for people to park downtown and just.
01:27:03:14 - 01:27:04:04
Hal
To help build.
01:27:04:04 - 01:27:06:04
Up Sundance. Not because.
01:27:06:06 - 01:27:06:12
Hal
I mean.
01:27:06:12 - 01:27:07:22
Because it was non-profitable.
01:27:07:22 - 01:27:09:23
Hal
To do it. It was only big picture profitable.
01:27:10:00 - 01:27:10:07
Jamey
Yeah.
01:27:10:12 - 01:27:11:16
Hal
But that was a huge risk they.
01:27:11:16 - 01:27:15:08
Took in doing it, but they did it and funded it forever. If they would just come out and said.
01:27:15:11 - 01:27:15:17
Hal
Hey.
01:27:15:17 - 01:27:17:19
We're not doing parking anymore.
01:27:17:21 - 01:27:22:22
Hal
Because we, we have, we have paid for it for 20 years.
01:27:23:03 - 01:27:24:16
And that was our.
01:27:24:18 - 01:27:26:16
Hal
Original idea, 20 years.
01:27:26:16 - 01:27:27:23
And we're going to stop funding it.
01:27:27:23 - 01:27:29:02
Hal
Or it's just gotten.
01:27:29:02 - 01:27:29:10
To be.
01:27:29:10 - 01:27:30:12
Hal
A cost.
01:27:30:12 - 01:27:31:13
A line item that's too.
01:27:31:16 - 01:27:33:14
Hal
Too heavy for us to carry anymore. If they.
01:27:33:14 - 01:27:34:14
Would have come out and said that.
01:27:34:16 - 01:27:35:02
Jamey
Yeah.
01:27:35:02 - 01:27:36:05
People would have understood.
01:27:36:05 - 01:27:37:08
Hal
Yeah, but they didn't.
01:27:37:10 - 01:27:39:00
And so now they're just complaining.
01:27:39:00 - 01:27:40:12
Hal
They're getting rid of the parking.
01:27:40:12 - 01:27:41:14
And they're not renewing these.
01:27:41:15 - 01:27:42:18
Hal
Leases. So.
01:27:42:20 - 01:27:43:18
We wanted to get.
01:27:43:18 - 01:27:44:18
Hal
Their official.
01:27:44:20 - 01:27:48:23
Opinion and, and we were granted an interview first one that said.
01:27:48:23 - 01:27:50:01
Hal
Or at is has.
01:27:50:01 - 01:27:50:19
Done in.
01:27:50:21 - 01:27:52:23
Hal
15 years probably.
01:27:53:01 - 01:27:53:20
And we.
01:27:53:20 - 01:27:54:06
Hal
Sat with.
01:27:54:06 - 01:27:58:06
Sasha and asses, myself and my
01:27:58:08 - 01:28:00:10
Hal
For the editor.
01:28:00:12 - 01:28:03:05
At the time and.
01:28:03:07 - 01:28:04:20
Hal
They were giving us an hour.
01:28:04:22 - 01:28:07:17
And so Ed was with us an hour and 45 minutes.
01:28:07:19 - 01:28:08:23
Hal
Maybe two hours.
01:28:08:23 - 01:28:09:08
And then.
01:28:09:08 - 01:28:10:00
Hal
Sasha was with.
01:28:10:00 - 01:28:10:11
Us for another.
01:28:10:11 - 01:28:20:14
Hal
Hour. So we had, you know, three hours, to talk with them before we did the story. After story was published, their PR.
01:28:20:16 - 01:28:21:11
Person.
01:28:21:13 - 01:28:21:20
Hal
Said.
01:28:21:20 - 01:28:23:04
They felt ambushed.
01:28:23:06 - 01:28:26:19
Hal
They think the story was sensational.
01:28:26:21 - 01:28:30:00
And not that I was invited to.
01:28:30:02 - 01:28:30:15
Hal
Many.
01:28:30:17 - 01:28:34:09
Functions before, but I'm certainly never going to be invited.
01:28:34:11 - 01:28:35:00
Hal
To a mass.
01:28:35:00 - 01:28:38:10
Function. Again. Because they were not.
01:28:38:10 - 01:28:39:15
Hal
Happy with the.
01:28:39:15 - 01:28:40:01
Angle that.
01:28:40:01 - 01:28:44:20
Hal
We took, and we we did exactly what we said we were going to do.
01:28:44:22 - 01:28:45:23
01:28:45:23 - 01:28:49:23
Hal
We provided the facts, right? Everything was attributed.
01:28:50:00 - 01:28:51:16
We didn't come up with.
01:28:51:18 - 01:28:54:06
Hal
Conjecture. We didn't, we didn't create.
01:28:54:06 - 01:28:54:15
Something that.
01:28:54:15 - 01:28:56:16
Hal
Wasn't there.
01:28:56:18 - 01:28:57:08
And we and I.
01:28:57:08 - 01:28:59:07
Hal
Was really hoping it would go the other way.
01:28:59:09 - 01:29:01:09
I was hoping they would be able to come out with a plan that we could.
01:29:01:09 - 01:29:03:08
Hal
Everybody's support. They didn't.
01:29:03:10 - 01:29:04:23
Yeah. So, yeah, sometimes you.
01:29:04:23 - 01:29:09:11
Hal
Do stories like that, but we don't typically do those because we just hey, a lot of people can.
01:29:09:11 - 01:29:11:01
Report on.
01:29:11:03 - 01:29:14:02
Hal
Other stuff. We we like making people happy. Yeah.
01:29:14:04 - 01:29:14:15
And so.
01:29:14:19 - 01:29:15:18
Hal
The thought was by.
01:29:15:18 - 01:29:17:08
Doing this story, maybe.
01:29:17:10 - 01:29:18:18
Hal
Maybe it'll change.
01:29:19:00 - 01:29:24:02
How Sundance is being handled. And, and that's a good thing for our city.
01:29:24:07 - 01:29:24:23
Hal
01:29:25:01 - 01:29:29:16
Jamey
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So sometimes you have that and then the folks are not happy.
01:29:29:16 - 01:29:29:21
Hal
Yeah.
01:29:30:01 - 01:29:31:01
I did get in when.
01:29:31:01 - 01:29:35:18
Hal
I said something about you didn't talk about demographics and.
01:29:35:20 - 01:29:35:22
Fort.
01:29:35:22 - 01:29:41:16
Hal
Worth eight magazine a few years back after Covid. I said something about
01:29:41:18 - 01:29:43:09
Our demographic being.
01:29:43:11 - 01:29:44:22
Hal
This. Yeah.
01:29:45:00 - 01:29:46:07
And.
01:29:46:09 - 01:29:47:10
Hal
The Fort Worth Weekly.
01:29:47:10 - 01:29:52:05
Took it and ran with it and, and, and they were like, you know.
01:29:52:08 - 01:29:58:06
Hal
The person's point was you need to represent all of Fort Worth, not just these people that.
01:29:58:06 - 01:30:02:22
Are making this much money. And fit in this, you know, window.
01:30:02:22 - 01:30:04:04
Hal
Of who you are.
01:30:04:06 - 01:30:05:09
And, and I'm like.
01:30:05:09 - 01:30:06:15
Hal
Well, that's a business.
01:30:06:15 - 01:30:11:14
Model. That's not, you know, I'm not the city. I'm not, I'm not making I'm not.
01:30:11:14 - 01:30:13:22
Hal
Passing any judgment at all. It's just that this is what it is.
01:30:13:23 - 01:30:14:16
Jamey
This is a niche.
01:30:14:18 - 01:30:15:13
Hal
It's a demographic.
01:30:15:13 - 01:30:16:12
Jamey
Yeah, this is a niche.
01:30:16:17 - 01:30:17:21
Yeah. And,
01:30:17:23 - 01:30:25:02
Jamey
But you can't. And I think to your point of earlier Star-Telegram trying to be all things to all people when you're at all things to all people, you're nothing.
01:30:25:06 - 01:30:27:18
Hal
Yeah, yeah. So, yeah.
01:30:27:18 - 01:30:29:19
And that did not go well.
01:30:29:21 - 01:30:31:17
Hal
Because it was, you know, people hear what.
01:30:31:17 - 01:30:32:02
They want to.
01:30:32:02 - 01:30:33:10
Hal
Hear.
01:30:33:12 - 01:30:34:05
And so.
01:30:34:05 - 01:30:34:17
Hal
The person.
01:30:34:17 - 01:30:35:04
That was on the.
01:30:35:04 - 01:30:38:03
Hal
Other side of this took it.
01:30:38:05 - 01:30:40:20
And and ran down this path.
01:30:40:20 - 01:30:41:07
Hal
That was.
01:30:41:07 - 01:30:46:03
Ugly and and spun what I, what I said into something that it.
01:30:46:03 - 01:30:47:14
Hal
Wasn't.
01:30:47:16 - 01:30:56:14
And so, you know, Brian Bird, he was a city councilman at the time. He reached out to me and we met with.
01:30:56:16 - 01:30:57:15
Hal
The person that wrote this.
01:30:57:15 - 01:30:58:21
In my office during Covid.
01:30:58:23 - 01:30:59:05
Hal
And the.
01:30:59:05 - 01:31:00:07
In the meeting, the person.
01:31:00:07 - 01:31:02:03
Hal
Said, if I if it wasn't Covid, I'd hug.
01:31:02:03 - 01:31:04:04
You right now.
01:31:04:06 - 01:31:05:13
Hal
But she never went back.
01:31:05:13 - 01:31:05:17
And.
01:31:05:17 - 01:31:14:08
Hal
Said on her podcast or in the weekly, hey, I, we spoke and we resolve this. This is really what he was talking about.
01:31:14:08 - 01:31:17:06
And, and we were on the same page.
01:31:17:06 - 01:31:18:00
Hal
And we appreciate.
01:31:18:03 - 01:31:18:10
Him.
01:31:18:10 - 01:31:19:09
Hal
Being up front.
01:31:19:09 - 01:31:21:05
Yeah, yeah. None of that happens. Yeah.
01:31:21:06 - 01:31:22:17
Hal
Right. That did it. So that.
01:31:22:17 - 01:31:23:11
Happens.
01:31:23:13 - 01:31:24:09
Hal
01:31:24:11 - 01:31:25:04
And it's not.
01:31:25:04 - 01:31:26:03
Hal
Good.
01:31:26:05 - 01:31:27:15
Unfortunately most people don't see that.
01:31:27:20 - 01:31:48:01
Jamey
Yeah, most people don't see that. Yeah. I've been I've been there a couple times. Yeah I've been there. Yeah. But it's hard. But you gotta have, you can't, you can't make everybody happy. And it's also like if you're, if you're doing something meaningful, like some folks are going to throw rocks at it no matter what. Let's pivot.
01:31:48:03 - 01:32:11:21
Jamey
Walk me through just sort of, staying grounded and how you do that. Juggling a big team, riding, riding the waves. Like what? Sort of like a day in your life. The other their habits, rhythms, things that you do that help set you up for success as a leader and help you stay grounded and help you balance. And, all of all of that.
01:32:11:21 - 01:32:23:13
Jamey
You've been you been doing this now for a while. I'd be curious. Are there any tools in your tool belt that help you? Yeah. You know, and when it's hard, when you have those kind of moments like you just described.
01:32:23:18 - 01:32:29:04
Hal
Yeah. You know, I think as.
01:32:29:06 - 01:32:30:01
Entrepreneurs.
01:32:30:01 - 01:32:32:08
Hal
As business owners, we all.
01:32:32:08 - 01:32:33:05
Have the tendency to.
01:32:33:05 - 01:32:33:23
Hal
Get sucked.
01:32:33:23 - 01:32:34:09
In to the.
01:32:34:09 - 01:32:35:16
Hal
Day to day.
01:32:35:18 - 01:32:38:11
And, and that's, that's certainly for me. And I'm a.
01:32:38:16 - 01:32:39:10
Hal
Servant type.
01:32:39:10 - 01:32:40:18
Leader and I'm, I'm there.
01:32:40:18 - 01:32:42:05
Hal
Usually before everybody.
01:32:42:09 - 01:32:42:20
And I'm the.
01:32:42:20 - 01:32:43:05
Hal
Last to.
01:32:43:05 - 01:32:46:12
Leave. And and so.
01:32:46:14 - 01:32:47:18
Hal
You know we oftentimes.
01:32:47:18 - 01:32:49:04
Get caught up in the.
01:32:49:04 - 01:32:52:00
Hal
Day to day. And so
01:32:52:01 - 01:32:54:07
Again traction has been a huge help for me there.
01:32:54:07 - 01:32:57:08
Hal
I can't imagine where we would be with our goals if we.
01:32:57:08 - 01:32:58:08
Didn't do that, because, I mean.
01:32:58:10 - 01:33:09:03
Hal
You blink your eye. And it's a year. We've been, we've been needing to do this, we've been talking about but then we, nobody ever does anything about it and we say let's do this. And we said well.
01:33:09:05 - 01:33:11:02
I can't tell you how many times I walked out of the.
01:33:11:02 - 01:33:11:21
Hal
Meeting, I felt so good.
01:33:12:02 - 01:33:14:18
About what we're gonna do. And then six months later I'm like, whatever.
01:33:14:18 - 01:33:15:13
Jamey
I haven't done a.
01:33:15:13 - 01:33:20:13
Single no one, no one. That's because no one was assigned the task and everybody assumed somebody else.
01:33:20:13 - 01:33:21:05
Hal
Was going to do it.
01:33:21:05 - 01:33:27:10
And and it just. And I actually assigned somebody to do it, and they were going to do it, but they're what memorialized. Yeah. And so and I.
01:33:27:10 - 01:33:28:05
Hal
Go, guys, all right.
01:33:28:05 - 01:33:34:14
Who was responsible. And the person that's responsible for it that's in the room. They're not going to put their hand up.
01:33:34:18 - 01:33:35:12
Hal
Yeah. Because if.
01:33:35:16 - 01:33:36:23
You don't know, that was me.
01:33:36:23 - 01:33:38:13
Hal
That didn't do what I was supposed.
01:33:38:13 - 01:33:43:01
To do that I'm tell you. And that happened to me so many times. It was as an owner.
01:33:43:06 - 01:33:45:19
Hal
It was so frustrating because I spent we.
01:33:45:20 - 01:33:50:00
Had spent so much time talking through it and then it didn't happen. And ultimately that was my fault.
01:33:50:04 - 01:33:53:09
Hal
As a leader. Because I don't have the structure set.
01:33:53:11 - 01:33:55:13
To enforce it and not, you know, the.
01:33:55:13 - 01:33:56:02
Hal
Quarterly off.
01:33:56:02 - 01:33:57:00
Sites in the US.
01:33:57:05 - 01:34:01:11
Hal
Really help with that. And so that's a, a big thing.
01:34:01:11 - 01:34:03:10
And then one of.
01:34:03:10 - 01:34:08:00
Hal
My so on your scorecard you have to do.
01:34:08:00 - 01:34:15:07
Certain things and everybody's reporting on what's important. So if I'm on a desert island and I'm running the business from there.
01:34:15:09 - 01:34:16:01
Hal
I just need the.
01:34:16:01 - 01:34:17:00
Bullet points and to.
01:34:17:00 - 01:34:18:01
Hal
See if this business is.
01:34:18:01 - 01:34:22:17
Successful or not. One of mine is meeting with.
01:34:22:19 - 01:34:24:22
Hal
Key executives in Fort Worth.
01:34:25:00 - 01:34:27:01
Jamey
One of yours on your your.
01:34:27:03 - 01:34:28:13
I'm on the desert island.
01:34:28:14 - 01:34:30:06
Hal
Yeah, but I'm still reporting back.
01:34:30:06 - 01:34:31:04
If I wasn't on the desert.
01:34:31:04 - 01:34:32:00
Hal
Island, if I was here.
01:34:32:00 - 01:34:34:02
Reporting back to my boss, which I don't have one. But if I.
01:34:34:02 - 01:34:34:19
Hal
Was.
01:34:34:21 - 01:34:35:21
That, that's what.
01:34:35:23 - 01:34:36:10
Hal
I would be.
01:34:36:10 - 01:34:37:00
Reporting on.
01:34:37:00 - 01:34:38:08
Hal
So for me.
01:34:38:13 - 01:34:40:16
I want to. For me, one of the most important.
01:34:40:16 - 01:34:43:19
Hal
Things is to, is to be able to get out.
01:34:43:21 - 01:34:51:01
And even though I'm out a lot in our events doing those, outside of that, I'm in my office a lot. I'm not out.
01:34:51:03 - 01:34:52:17
Hal
And so it's like, hey.
01:34:52:19 - 01:34:54:06
Let's go meet for,
01:34:54:08 - 01:34:59:13
Hal
You know, a late lunch or an early, early, you know, 4:00, beer at.
01:34:59:13 - 01:35:00:13
Someone. So I'm like.
01:35:00:15 - 01:35:01:11
Hal
Dude.
01:35:01:13 - 01:35:02:06
I mean, I never.
01:35:02:06 - 01:35:03:07
Hal
Go at 4:00 beer.
01:35:03:07 - 01:35:04:16
Time. It's like, I don't.
01:35:04:16 - 01:35:06:16
Hal
Do the, the three hour.
01:35:06:16 - 01:35:10:01
Lunch. Yeah, I just don't. Yeah, I mean, I can meet for breakfast.
01:35:10:04 - 01:35:10:16
Hal
I can meet.
01:35:10:16 - 01:35:13:11
For lunch, but, I mean, I don't ever meet after.
01:35:13:13 - 01:35:15:02
Hal
For business lessons.
01:35:15:06 - 01:35:18:00
Jamey
I don't do lunches or coffees. Okay? Ever.
01:35:18:04 - 01:35:18:11
Hal
Okay.
01:35:18:14 - 01:35:34:17
Jamey
Like, maybe like, it's so hard, like, because I have so much work to do. Yeah. And it's very disruptive to, like, like, stop what you're doing, go in the car, go someplace. And I know, like, networking and relationship wise and. Yeah. But anyways, all that being said, I can relate. I can relate to some of.
01:35:34:17 - 01:35:35:08
Hal
That, but I.
01:35:35:08 - 01:35:36:05
But for me I gotta.
01:35:36:05 - 01:35:38:13
Hal
Eat. I usually eat at my desk. Yeah.
01:35:38:15 - 01:35:39:00
You know.
01:35:39:00 - 01:35:39:23
Hal
In coffee I drink.
01:35:39:23 - 01:35:40:08
But I don't.
01:35:40:08 - 01:35:41:02
Hal
Typically go to drink.
01:35:41:02 - 01:35:43:01
Coffee in the morning. I just make it and come to the office.
01:35:43:01 - 01:35:44:10
Hal
But.
01:35:44:12 - 01:35:44:22
I meet with.
01:35:44:22 - 01:35:46:04
Hal
People early.
01:35:46:04 - 01:35:48:05
So I can meet with them, like at seven.
01:35:48:07 - 01:35:49:01
Hal
30, seven.
01:35:49:01 - 01:35:51:04
O'clock, 730. And I'm, you know, if I, if I.
01:35:51:04 - 01:35:52:01
Hal
Meet with them 738.
01:35:52:01 - 01:35:53:04
30 I'm ten minutes late.
01:35:53:04 - 01:35:57:03
Hal
To the office. Yeah. So my objective KPI.
01:35:57:05 - 01:36:01:20
Is to meet with once a week, have some interaction with.
01:36:01:20 - 01:36:02:21
Hal
A CEO.
01:36:02:21 - 01:36:03:17
High end of.
01:36:03:19 - 01:36:05:16
Hal
Executives.
01:36:05:18 - 01:36:08:21
Not necessarily somebody that is can affect my business right.
01:36:08:21 - 01:36:12:19
Hal
Now, but there, there are people.
01:36:12:19 - 01:36:13:17
That are in Fort Worth.
01:36:13:17 - 01:36:14:03
Hal
That are.
01:36:14:09 - 01:36:15:07
In the know.
01:36:15:07 - 01:36:16:09
Hal
That are like.
01:36:16:10 - 01:36:26:21
I can learn something from. Yeah. That I can maybe benefit, then they can benefit me and I can find out, and I'm building relationships. So that's one of mine. And I think it's.
01:36:26:23 - 01:36:29:14
Jamey
Does that mean good? Have you and if you enjoyed that.
01:36:29:16 - 01:36:31:15
Yeah. I mean, I'm doing this, by the way.
01:36:31:16 - 01:36:34:07
Hal
Yeah, yeah. Because, because of that.
01:36:34:09 - 01:36:35:21
I get to count it as one of mine.
01:36:35:23 - 01:36:37:01
Hal
This week is counts.
01:36:37:01 - 01:36:39:17
Yeah, I got one. And I don't do it every week.
01:36:39:17 - 01:36:46:07
Hal
And so I try to. That's my goal. Yeah. Yeah. But, I think that is the.
01:36:46:09 - 01:36:49:10
That's been helpful. It's been helpful for me.
01:36:49:12 - 01:36:51:22
Hal
You know, because like, you're saying you don't do.
01:36:51:22 - 01:36:53:06
Coffee, you don't do lunch.
01:36:53:12 - 01:36:54:08
Hal
And.
01:36:54:09 - 01:36:56:18
And so when are you, if you're not doing these, when are you meeting.
01:36:56:18 - 01:36:58:19
Hal
With these executives that.
01:36:58:21 - 01:37:00:13
Maybe down the road.
01:37:00:15 - 01:37:05:19
Hal
You'll call on them for business, right? You need a favor? They need a favor.
01:37:05:21 - 01:37:07:03
Something that is. Again. No.
01:37:07:03 - 01:37:12:06
Hal
Jamie, we had coffee once, two years ago. Great conversation. Yeah. So.
01:37:12:08 - 01:37:32:14
Jamey
Yeah, it's it's an interesting balance because I feel like a lot of my success in my life has been from relationships and doing that and making myself available, and connections. And then also I get in, like, hermit mode and I'm like, I just want to grind away. Yeah. I'm like, I want to be antisocial. And just, yeah, build, build things.
01:37:32:16 - 01:37:51:00
Jamey
Yeah. You need both. There is an intentionality of both those. So so for so for you, you were saying having things like iOS have been hugely helpful, having these relationships, having and putting on a scorecard. I'm going to go network and glean wisdom and build.
01:37:51:02 - 01:37:51:06
Hal
Yeah.
01:37:51:06 - 01:37:56:04
Otherwise if you're not being held accountable. Yeah. I mean, I need to be held accountable just.
01:37:56:04 - 01:37:59:02
Hal
Like everybody else. Yeah, right. That's one of our biggest issues is.
01:37:59:02 - 01:38:02:06
Holding people accountable. You know, our we had a you know.
01:38:02:11 - 01:38:03:13
Jamey
How bring it a little closer.
01:38:03:15 - 01:38:03:23
In our.
01:38:03:23 - 01:38:06:22
Hal
Weekly, level.
01:38:06:22 - 01:38:09:21
Ten meetings, which is an iOS thing. You know, we have.
01:38:09:21 - 01:38:11:00
Hal
To we have to go over our.
01:38:11:01 - 01:38:15:22
Accountability and we have to report on those. And if you're not reporting on them, I mean.
01:38:15:22 - 01:38:18:09
Hal
Literally, you turn around in six months, it's like.
01:38:18:09 - 01:38:19:06
I've been I've been.
01:38:19:06 - 01:38:19:20
Hal
Focused.
01:38:19:20 - 01:38:21:09
Right? I've been working. I can say I work.
01:38:21:09 - 01:38:22:08
Hal
Since I work.
01:38:22:13 - 01:38:24:09
But you're not doing some of the big.
01:38:24:09 - 01:38:27:00
Hal
Things. I've been doing it for things that are.
01:38:27:02 - 01:38:28:13
They don't see important now.
01:38:28:16 - 01:38:30:08
Hal
But but really, they.
01:38:30:08 - 01:38:31:04
Lead to more important.
01:38:31:04 - 01:38:31:16
Hal
Things. Yeah.
01:38:31:16 - 01:38:35:07
So that's something that I know I need to be doing. So that's when I'm held accountable to do.
01:38:35:07 - 01:38:36:18
Jamey
The things that push the company forward.
01:38:37:00 - 01:38:38:19
If I didn't have to report on it, I guarantee.
01:38:38:19 - 01:38:40:03
Hal
You it would be.
01:38:40:03 - 01:38:41:05
Maybe once a month.
01:38:41:06 - 01:38:42:13
Hal
Yeah. Right.
01:38:42:15 - 01:38:42:19
So I.
01:38:42:19 - 01:38:43:06
Hal
Just wouldn't do.
01:38:43:06 - 01:38:43:17
It. I mean.
01:38:43:17 - 01:38:45:07
Hal
Because it's hard. It's hard.
01:38:45:11 - 01:38:46:07
Jamey
Those are getting.
01:38:46:09 - 01:38:47:16
Hal
You got to be intentional about it.
01:38:47:18 - 01:39:04:22
Jamey
Those are really good. What about, we start talking about this earlier, but any any books or resources or things that were very, like influential in sort of your journey as a leader, entrepreneur?
01:39:05:00 - 01:39:10:02
Hal
Of course. Traction. We talked about that, good to great, great book.
01:39:10:04 - 01:39:10:19
And a lot.
01:39:10:19 - 01:39:11:09
Hal
Of great.
01:39:11:09 - 01:39:13:02
Stuff in that,
01:39:13:04 - 01:39:13:17
Hal
Which is pulled.
01:39:13:17 - 01:39:14:01
From other.
01:39:14:01 - 01:39:15:04
Hal
Stuff that other people.
01:39:15:04 - 01:39:15:11
Have done.
01:39:15:11 - 01:39:16:10
Hal
But it's a really.
01:39:16:10 - 01:39:20:15
Well-written and inspiring book. And then.
01:39:20:17 - 01:39:22:00
Hal
A Purpose Driven Life.
01:39:22:03 - 01:39:22:14
Jamey
01:39:22:20 - 01:39:25:05
Hal
Is,
01:39:25:07 - 01:39:26:12
It's it's an amazing.
01:39:26:12 - 01:39:27:08
Hal
Book. It's a book that I.
01:39:27:08 - 01:39:33:13
Read a number of years ago and, my son is, working in an RV dealership, and.
01:39:33:15 - 01:39:34:04
Hal
Rockwall.
01:39:34:09 - 01:39:41:09
And, and I gave him the book. I guess it's been about a month ago. A month and a half ago.
01:39:41:11 - 01:39:43:07
Hal
After that, I think.
01:39:43:09 - 01:39:46:00
10th day, I'd give it to him. I.
01:39:46:02 - 01:39:46:19
Hal
He goes, hey.
01:39:47:00 - 01:39:47:14
Dad, you know that.
01:39:47:14 - 01:39:48:00
Hal
Book you.
01:39:48:02 - 01:39:49:04
Gave me? I he said.
01:39:49:04 - 01:39:49:15
Hal
I've already read.
01:39:49:15 - 01:39:51:06
27 chapters.
01:39:51:07 - 01:39:52:05
Hal
Yeah. Yeah.
01:39:52:06 - 01:39:54:00
And so it's,
01:39:54:02 - 01:39:57:01
Hal
Yeah, it is to me, life is.
01:39:57:03 - 01:39:57:17
It's not all.
01:39:57:17 - 01:39:59:09
Hal
About business.
01:39:59:11 - 01:40:00:16
And one of the things he was.
01:40:00:16 - 01:40:01:17
Hal
Struggling with is he's.
01:40:01:17 - 01:40:05:04
Like, hey, I'm making really good money now, you know, and I'm.
01:40:05:06 - 01:40:07:02
Hal
He's he's like me in a lot of ways.
01:40:07:04 - 01:40:08:02
01:40:08:04 - 01:40:11:11
Hal
And, you know, it's it's important to,
01:40:11:13 - 01:40:16:10
He didn't have a family, but kind of. We feel like, you know, our worth sometimes if we're the.
01:40:16:12 - 01:40:17:05
Hal
Provider.
01:40:17:11 - 01:40:19:09
You know, if we're making money,
01:40:19:11 - 01:40:20:18
Hal
That we check that box.
01:40:20:18 - 01:40:29:01
And that's important. As a man, it's important it's females, too, and that's no question. But, we're just kind of more that way, I think.
01:40:29:06 - 01:40:29:15
Hal
Yeah.
01:40:29:17 - 01:40:30:09
Oftentimes.
01:40:30:09 - 01:40:31:01
Hal
And so he.
01:40:31:01 - 01:40:36:10
Was like, hey, I'm making lots of money. And I just but, I don't know, there's I just.
01:40:36:10 - 01:40:38:21
Hal
I feel like I thought I'd feel differently. I think I.
01:40:38:21 - 01:40:41:19
Thought when I had, when I was making this money, how much money I'd.
01:40:41:19 - 01:40:43:14
Hal
Feel accomplished.
01:40:43:16 - 01:40:45:06
And I don't.
01:40:45:08 - 01:40:48:12
Hal
And and so I gave him, the book.
01:40:48:14 - 01:40:51:01
And, and he has.
01:40:51:03 - 01:40:54:10
Hal
We've talked about a couple times. We're going to, go back through it and.
01:40:54:10 - 01:40:56:08
Have him read it again, and I'm going to read it again.
01:40:56:09 - 01:40:57:03
Jamey
Oh, cool.
01:40:57:05 - 01:40:58:12
And then we're going to get together and talk it through.
01:40:58:12 - 01:41:01:03
Hal
But I think that is that to me is.
01:41:01:07 - 01:41:01:19
Incredibly.
01:41:01:19 - 01:41:02:23
Hal
Powerful.
01:41:03:01 - 01:41:03:20
Because it's not all.
01:41:03:20 - 01:41:04:15
Hal
About us.
01:41:04:17 - 01:41:05:12
Jamey
Yeah.
01:41:05:13 - 01:41:05:21
Living.
01:41:05:21 - 01:41:07:11
Hal
For other people.
01:41:07:13 - 01:41:07:16
You.
01:41:07:16 - 01:41:09:14
Hal
Know, we have a purpose.
01:41:09:16 - 01:41:12:12
And it's it's not just serving us.
01:41:12:14 - 01:41:14:05
Hal
Right. So it's a if.
01:41:14:05 - 01:41:14:16
Y'all don't know.
01:41:14:16 - 01:41:16:07
Hal
It's listening to this, it's a.
01:41:16:09 - 01:41:21:07
A Christian book and it's about serving God. And he.
01:41:21:07 - 01:41:23:04
Hal
Has us here for a purpose.
01:41:23:06 - 01:41:25:04
And it's, it's not just doing business.
01:41:25:09 - 01:41:55:13
Jamey
Yeah. I think, yeah. I think that's the, the most important because it's like you and I can. Okay. And I think it's cool for him to have realizing that soon. Sometimes it takes it took me a long time to realize that. But it's like no matter the fame, the money, all those things doesn't make you happy. And so if you don't have a foundation of of more than that, if it's just about you, it's like, that's a, it's a it's an unfulfilling place to be.
01:41:55:13 - 01:42:20:12
Jamey
Like some of my most depressing moments were the days after, like our biggest concerts ever, where it's like we did this thing and then I'm like, why? Why do I have this giant hole? Yeah. You know, but having a foundation of of it's not about you and you can't shake it. And I know for you and I are similar in that it's, it's God's love and acceptance for us in that purpose, which is what the book is about.
01:42:20:14 - 01:42:32:09
Jamey
But it just gives you a bedrock where you can weather the storms, you can weather when it's good. My the news not on the this weather when it's bad, you know it's it's yeah I think I think it's a great one. It's a foundation.
01:42:32:09 - 01:42:36:03
Hal
It's a, it's a philosophy. Our, our corporate philosophy.
01:42:36:05 - 01:42:37:00
Which is on our business.
01:42:37:00 - 01:42:37:15
Hal
Cards.
01:42:37:17 - 01:42:46:15
It's to honor God in all that we do. And it goes on business cards. If you don't want it on your business card.
01:42:46:17 - 01:42:49:10
Hal
You just don't get business cards.
01:42:49:12 - 01:42:50:22
And that's happened before.
01:42:51:00 - 01:42:52:15
Hal
You don't have to believe in God to.
01:42:52:17 - 01:42:53:18
To work for my company.
01:42:53:18 - 01:42:54:07
Hal
Yeah, but.
01:42:54:07 - 01:42:56:20
What you do need to know is that,
01:42:56:22 - 01:42:57:14
Hal
That it is the.
01:42:57:14 - 01:43:00:12
Way I run my company. And if there's something that's not honoring to.
01:43:00:12 - 01:43:02:17
Hal
God that I won't do it.
01:43:02:18 - 01:43:04:14
And I do certain things, and I.
01:43:04:14 - 01:43:10:00
Hal
Like coverage editorially. People, what does that mean? What's it look like? Well, editorial.
01:43:10:00 - 01:43:10:18
There's some that I don't.
01:43:10:18 - 01:43:12:09
Hal
Cover because it's.
01:43:12:09 - 01:43:13:17
Not honoring to God for me to do it.
01:43:13:17 - 01:43:14:17
Jamey
Yeah.
01:43:14:18 - 01:43:19:05
And there's, you know, and my editors and I get into arguments about it sometimes.
01:43:19:06 - 01:43:21:00
Hal
Respectfully. Yeah.
01:43:21:02 - 01:43:25:22
And they respect my position. And when I bring people on, I tell everyone the story and I'm like.
01:43:25:22 - 01:43:26:10
Hal
Hey, this is.
01:43:26:10 - 01:43:37:06
What it means for me. And, you know, I'm not going to push God on you, but just know that's the way we run the company. And, it's part of our DNA.
01:43:37:08 - 01:43:44:15
Jamey
I love that. That's cool. Very cool. What advice would you give your younger self?
01:43:44:17 - 01:43:45:20
Hal
What advice would I give.
01:43:45:20 - 01:43:50:03
Jamey
Yeah. Your younger self. If you could go back okay.
01:43:50:05 - 01:43:55:10
Great question.
01:43:55:12 - 01:43:56:23
Hal
I think probably.
01:43:56:23 - 01:44:01:22
Especially when I was younger
01:44:02:00 - 01:44:06:07
Hal
Is don't be afraid to take calculated risks.
01:44:06:09 - 01:44:10:04
And you know.
01:44:10:06 - 01:44:10:17
Hal
You know.
01:44:10:19 - 01:44:12:00
Branching off and back and forth.
01:44:12:00 - 01:44:15:03
Hal
Magazine was a calculated risk.
01:44:15:05 - 01:44:21:06
You know, I didn't know if it would. What happens if what happens if. And, and so.
01:44:21:07 - 01:44:21:20
Hal
So that.
01:44:21:20 - 01:44:26:20
Making, making a decision, you know, and that's so.
01:44:26:20 - 01:44:30:13
Hal
So calculated risks huge.
01:44:30:15 - 01:44:31:11
And because.
01:44:31:11 - 01:44:31:22
Hal
A lot of people.
01:44:31:22 - 01:44:32:10
Don't that's.
01:44:32:10 - 01:44:38:06
Hal
Why a lot of people don't work or they work for somebody else, right? They have ideas, they have this, but they can't.
01:44:38:06 - 01:44:41:23
They're not going to pull the trigger and take the risk. Yeah. And I'm saying especially when you're younger.
01:44:42:03 - 01:44:50:11
Hal
If you don't have kids, you know, even what kills me? What it's hard to me today is like, if I was trying to do this today with.
01:44:50:11 - 01:44:52:12
Kids in the family and, you.
01:44:52:12 - 01:44:53:10
Hal
Know.
01:44:53:12 - 01:45:00:09
You know, I was going to start up something from. And then if if I went bankrupt, then what? You know, much harder now.
01:45:00:11 - 01:45:01:22
Jamey
Yeah. And just like your 20s.
01:45:01:22 - 01:45:03:12
Well, actually, now I'm 60 and my kids are.
01:45:03:12 - 01:45:04:06
Hal
Out of school, so.
01:45:04:09 - 01:45:06:17
Except for my youngest, which I have another.
01:45:06:19 - 01:45:09:21
Hal
My wife, I got remarried, you know, 16 years ago. 15 years.
01:45:09:21 - 01:45:11:06
Ago. And I've got a 14 year old.
01:45:11:06 - 01:45:12:08
Hal
So.
01:45:12:10 - 01:45:15:03
Still got that at home and loving it, but,
01:45:15:05 - 01:45:20:04
Hal
Yeah. So taking risk. Calculated.
01:45:20:06 - 01:45:23:05
And, you know. Yeah. Swinging the bat.
01:45:23:07 - 01:45:24:12
Hal
Right. So we did a book.
01:45:24:12 - 01:45:30:16
Back in the early days when we were doing books and, Mark, my partner.
01:45:30:18 - 01:45:31:21
Hal
Did a book. It was part of.
01:45:31:21 - 01:45:33:08
The company that I was on the.
01:45:33:08 - 01:45:35:23
Hal
Agency side, but the book was from Bobby.
01:45:35:23 - 01:45:36:19
Brogan, who was.
01:45:36:19 - 01:45:37:10
Hal
01:45:37:12 - 01:45:38:04
01:45:38:06 - 01:45:40:22
Hal
National League.
01:45:41:00 - 01:45:43:09
Player, American League. And he was.
01:45:43:11 - 01:45:45:14
Hal
Also a coach, and he.
01:45:45:14 - 01:45:46:08
Coached in the major.
01:45:46:08 - 01:45:49:21
Hal
Leagues, and he coached the fourth cats for Team.
01:45:49:23 - 01:45:50:14
And he wrote a.
01:45:50:14 - 01:45:52:14
Hal
Book called You Can't Hit a Ball with.
01:45:52:14 - 01:45:53:02
The bat on your.
01:45:53:02 - 01:45:55:12
Hal
Shoulder.
01:45:55:14 - 01:45:55:19
And.
01:45:55:19 - 01:45:59:20
Hal
So you got to take, you got to swing the bat. Yeah. Yeah.
01:45:59:23 - 01:46:03:18
If you want to get somewhere, you got to swing the bat and you know.
01:46:03:20 - 01:46:06:00
Hal
Babe Ruth led.
01:46:06:02 - 01:46:06:13
The American.
01:46:06:13 - 01:46:07:21
Hal
League.
01:46:07:23 - 01:46:13:10
And led the nation in, in home runs. But most people don't know that.
01:46:13:10 - 01:46:16:15
Hal
He was a strikeout king for five.
01:46:16:19 - 01:46:17:21
Seasons in the American.
01:46:17:21 - 01:46:19:11
Jamey
League. Was he really? I didn't know that.
01:46:19:11 - 01:46:20:18
Hal
He had more strikeouts than anybody.
01:46:20:21 - 01:46:21:12
Jamey
Really?
01:46:21:12 - 01:46:21:18
Hal
Yeah.
01:46:21:18 - 01:46:23:10
Jamey
So what a cool anecdote.
01:46:23:11 - 01:46:23:19
Hal
Yeah.
01:46:23:19 - 01:46:25:22
So, I mean, they don't talk about that.
01:46:25:22 - 01:46:27:03
Hal
They just he is one of the.
01:46:27:03 - 01:46:28:06
Biggest homerun hitters.
01:46:28:06 - 01:46:30:13
Hal
Of all time.
01:46:30:15 - 01:46:31:13
But he swung the bat.
01:46:31:18 - 01:46:47:17
Jamey
Yeah I love that. Those are really good. Take risks calculated calculate risk. Swing swing the bat. Okay a couple quick quick quick questions. I'll have my final close it up. Favorite. What's your go to meal in Fort Worth?
01:46:47:18 - 01:46:48:15
Restaurant or meal.
01:46:48:20 - 01:46:51:05
Jamey
Yeah. Restaurant. Restaurant meal.
01:46:51:11 - 01:46:55:12
Hal
Restaurant. Yeah.
01:46:55:14 - 01:47:00:09
I it depends on the, mood I'm in.
01:47:00:11 - 01:47:04:06
Hal
Used to be, for a really nice. I used to be Del Frisco's.
01:47:04:06 - 01:47:06:13
Not anymore.
01:47:06:15 - 01:47:07:18
Hal
You know, a probably.
01:47:07:22 - 01:47:08:18
Right now would.
01:47:08:18 - 01:47:15:17
Hal
Go Capital Grill for the best steak for me, which is butcher.
01:47:15:19 - 01:47:16:04
Maybe a.
01:47:16:09 - 01:47:19:16
Hal
Wicked butcher today, but they're really close. Yeah.
01:47:19:18 - 01:47:20:10
And so I would.
01:47:20:10 - 01:47:20:21
Hal
Go there.
01:47:20:21 - 01:47:23:21
For the high end meal. You can't ever beat.
01:47:23:23 - 01:47:24:15
Hal
Joe Ortiz.
01:47:24:15 - 01:47:25:22
Jamey
For better food. Yeah.
01:47:26:00 - 01:47:26:15
I don't care.
01:47:26:15 - 01:47:28:18
Hal
What people say. It's good. I think it's really good.
01:47:28:19 - 01:47:30:04
Jamey
I love to,
01:47:30:06 - 01:47:31:05
And the atmosphere.
01:47:31:05 - 01:47:32:04
Hal
Is the best.
01:47:32:04 - 01:47:32:16
Jamey
It is.
01:47:32:19 - 01:47:33:01
Hal
Yeah.
01:47:33:02 - 01:47:34:23
Other than the line, if you can.
01:47:35:00 - 01:47:36:23
Hal
Avoid that, you're, you're.
01:47:36:23 - 01:47:37:09
Golden.
01:47:37:09 - 01:47:42:19
Hal
But, yeah. Mexican food for sure. Joe Ortiz and, yeah, I typically.
01:47:42:23 - 01:47:47:03
I'm a fast food. I'm a, I'm a low carb guy on the. During the weeks.
01:47:47:04 - 01:47:48:13
Hal
I'll do chicken salad. Chick.
01:47:48:19 - 01:47:49:20
Jamey
Oh, you,
01:47:49:22 - 01:47:54:07
Hal
Right. Just no bread. Just check us out or, Chipotle. Without the.
01:47:54:12 - 01:47:55:09
Rice and.
01:47:55:14 - 01:47:57:20
Hal
Tortilla. Yeah. Yeah.
01:47:58:02 - 01:48:03:16
Jamey
Favorite, favorite place to get a cocktail?
01:48:03:18 - 01:48:05:15
By the way, let me go back. You know, Mambo.
01:48:05:15 - 01:48:07:13
Hal
We do it every single week at.
01:48:07:13 - 01:48:08:16
Least once or twice.
01:48:08:16 - 01:48:09:19
Jamey
I you do remember every week.
01:48:09:19 - 01:48:10:04
Hal
Every.
01:48:10:04 - 01:48:11:19
Jamey
So this is like, go to family night.
01:48:11:19 - 01:48:13:15
Hal
So. Yeah, I say Joe tease is a.
01:48:13:15 - 01:48:19:08
Great cause the ambiance. But, the food at Real Mambo and.
01:48:19:10 - 01:48:20:00
Hal
I created a.
01:48:20:00 - 01:48:20:10
Drink on the.
01:48:20:10 - 01:48:22:12
Hal
Menu. So if you ever go to Fort Worth, if you're going.
01:48:22:12 - 01:48:26:14
To real mambo, any of them, and order the Fort Worth Margarita.
01:48:26:16 - 01:48:28:03
Jamey
Oh, really? So that's your drink?
01:48:28:03 - 01:48:28:21
Hal
So it's the.
01:48:28:23 - 01:48:29:21
Jamey
Answers that.
01:48:29:21 - 01:48:31:01
Hal
Mag.
01:48:31:03 - 01:48:31:13
Jamey
Jean.
01:48:31:16 - 01:48:34:10
So it's Margarita. No one really gets it. I don't think I thought.
01:48:34:10 - 01:48:37:13
Hal
People would that they don't.
01:48:37:15 - 01:48:38:00
Jamey
What's it.
01:48:38:02 - 01:48:39:08
Hal
Called? The Fort Worth mag.
01:48:39:14 - 01:48:40:03
How do you make it?
01:48:40:03 - 01:48:41:16
Hal
Not Marg, it's spelled.
01:48:41:16 - 01:48:43:05
Mag. And.
01:48:43:07 - 01:48:45:12
Hal
It was our favorite drink. I created it with.
01:48:45:12 - 01:48:48:21
The owner, Brant Johnson. And it's a.
01:48:48:23 - 01:48:51:03
Hal
A schooner frozen.
01:48:51:05 - 01:48:52:05
And it's.
01:48:52:05 - 01:48:52:17
Hal
Got a.
01:48:52:17 - 01:48:55:09
Champagne, the little cooked champagne, the dry champagne.
01:48:55:11 - 01:48:56:00
Hal
Oh, interest.
01:48:56:01 - 01:48:56:14
Balances.
01:48:56:14 - 01:48:57:09
Hal
Out the sweetness.
01:48:57:09 - 01:48:58:19
And it's flipped over inside.
01:48:58:23 - 01:48:59:12
Hal
The,
01:48:59:13 - 01:49:00:07
Schooner. And,
01:49:00:09 - 01:49:02:13
Hal
There's a small half shot.
01:49:02:13 - 01:49:03:12
Of Grand Mornay.
01:49:03:17 - 01:49:04:21
Hal
Okay, so it's.
01:49:04:23 - 01:49:06:03
Jamey
I have to try that.
01:49:06:03 - 01:49:07:05
Hal
So it's,
01:49:07:07 - 01:49:08:17
Yeah. Don't,
01:49:08:18 - 01:49:10:01
Hal
Don't drive if you had to.
01:49:10:01 - 01:49:11:12
Jamey
Okay. Yeah. The ship.
01:49:11:13 - 01:49:12:15
Hal
We call it the sleeper.
01:49:12:17 - 01:49:13:06
Jamey
Yeah.
01:49:13:08 - 01:49:16:00
Hal
Yeah, it'll put you to sleep. It's, It's great.
01:49:16:02 - 01:49:30:02
Jamey
That's a that's a fun one. Okay, other quick question. Have there been any any, like, people you've covered where you geeked out? Like, I don't like musicians. Athletes like, is there anybody where like, okay, I want to go be be there for that interview.
01:49:30:04 - 01:49:30:23
But I want to be at.
01:49:30:23 - 01:49:31:12
Hal
The end of.
01:49:31:14 - 01:49:33:18
Jamey
The interview. And that you were like, we're kind of geeking out.
01:49:33:19 - 01:49:36:07
Okay, I know where you're going.
01:49:36:07 - 01:49:36:18
Hal
With this in.
01:49:36:20 - 01:49:37:05
Jamey
Any, like.
01:49:37:05 - 01:49:38:04
Hal
Magazine.
01:49:38:06 - 01:49:40:09
Well, okay. My mind is,
01:49:40:11 - 01:49:45:02
Hal
It's it's related to that. So, it's a book project that I did.
01:49:45:02 - 01:49:46:10
So something I did in my.
01:49:46:10 - 01:49:47:08
Hal
Business that I.
01:49:47:08 - 01:49:52:05
Regretted not taking advantage and being on the interview.
01:49:52:06 - 01:49:54:00
Hal
We were doing books.
01:49:54:02 - 01:49:57:05
When I started. Remember Mark was doing that, and he had.
01:49:57:05 - 01:49:58:18
Hal
And right after I started.
01:49:58:18 - 01:50:00:04
At the ad agency, he was doing a.
01:50:00:04 - 01:50:00:23
Hal
Book.
01:50:01:01 - 01:50:02:18
On Ronald Reagan.
01:50:02:18 - 01:50:05:21
Hal
It was the authorized pictorial history of Ronald Reagan.
01:50:05:23 - 01:50:07:20
And I just bought my house.
01:50:07:22 - 01:50:09:03
Hal
And he goes, how.
01:50:09:05 - 01:50:15:22
I know you're a huge Ronald Reagan fan. We're going to go hand Ronald Reagan the book and.
01:50:16:00 - 01:50:17:10
Hal
Would you like to come?
01:50:17:12 - 01:50:19:03
Jamey
And you said, no.
01:50:19:05 - 01:50:20:06
And I.
01:50:20:06 - 01:50:21:09
Hal
Thought it was going to be a shake.
01:50:21:09 - 01:50:23:09
Smile, shake, take a picture and go.
01:50:23:11 - 01:50:26:05
Hal
And it's still I would love to have done that. But.
01:50:26:07 - 01:50:26:14
He said.
01:50:26:14 - 01:50:28:05
Hal
I'll, I'll cover your your.
01:50:28:05 - 01:50:29:02
Hotel room and.
01:50:29:04 - 01:50:32:01
Hal
Food. Just pay for your flight.
01:50:32:03 - 01:50:35:17
And it was, I just bought my house and I was 20.
01:50:35:19 - 01:50:36:15
Hal
Four, five.
01:50:36:15 - 01:50:38:21
Years old and it was, and it was like 1500.
01:50:38:23 - 01:50:42:02
Hal
5000 bucks for flight or airfare or something. It was expensive.
01:50:42:02 - 01:50:44:06
Yeah. And I go, I can't afford it.
01:50:44:08 - 01:50:45:00
Hal
I can't afford it.
01:50:45:00 - 01:50:45:12
I said, I mean.
01:50:45:12 - 01:50:48:22
Hal
I'd love to, but I can't. And I thought it was gonna be. They spent two.
01:50:48:22 - 01:50:52:05
And a half hours in his office.
01:50:52:06 - 01:50:52:21
Hal
Shooting.
01:50:52:21 - 01:50:54:16
It and talking and.
01:50:54:18 - 01:50:55:12
Hal
Pictures.
01:50:55:12 - 01:50:55:15
And.
01:50:55:17 - 01:50:58:16
Hal
And just to have three people there was Mark,
01:50:58:18 - 01:51:02:02
One other person, they would have been me. And I. And I said, no, I did.
01:51:02:03 - 01:51:03:19
Hal
Well.
01:51:03:21 - 01:51:06:10
So that was my biggest regret. One,
01:51:06:12 - 01:51:11:17
Hal
That I should have said yes to, yeah. Cover.
01:51:11:18 - 01:51:15:18
The Taylor Sheridan one. We covered him. That's when I said.
01:51:15:18 - 01:51:16:01
Hal
I did the.
01:51:16:01 - 01:51:16:18
Ranch.
01:51:16:20 - 01:51:18:03
Hal
Did you go out to that? Oh, yeah.
01:51:18:05 - 01:51:19:06
Jamey
Was it cool?
01:51:19:08 - 01:51:20:21
Hal
Yeah. Of course. Four sixes ranch.
01:51:20:21 - 01:51:23:00
Jamey
Yeah. I would kill to go see that thing.
01:51:23:00 - 01:51:25:09
Hal
Yeah, and we were on horseback together.
01:51:25:09 - 01:51:26:12
I was me and him. And then.
01:51:26:12 - 01:51:27:15
Jamey
Are you ride horses with him?
01:51:27:16 - 01:51:35:21
Hal
Oh, yeah. We had fun. They were cutting cows. And, you know, we have the. It's a great photo essay. If you haven't.
01:51:35:21 - 01:51:40:03
Seen it, it's a great. You can look at it, look it up online. He's on the cover.
01:51:40:05 - 01:51:41:09
Hal
Taylor is,
01:51:41:11 - 01:51:43:21
That's when I said. Yeah, I definitely need to be on that. Okay.
01:51:43:23 - 01:51:45:15
Hal
You know, he's a he's a Fort Worth guy.
01:51:45:20 - 01:51:47:09
Yeah. Most people didn't know he went to.
01:51:47:09 - 01:51:49:16
Hal
Pasco High School and.
01:51:49:18 - 01:51:51:19
You know, so he's done a lot obviously.
01:51:51:19 - 01:51:53:01
Hal
For for Fort Worth.
01:51:53:06 - 01:52:04:10
Jamey
Bringing the film, film world here. Yeah. Those are fun. Those are good stories. Okay. Final question is just is is legacy. What is that? What does that word mean to you?
01:52:04:12 - 01:52:09:21
01:52:09:23 - 01:52:11:08
Hal
One of the, I read that.
01:52:11:08 - 01:52:14:04
Question and what came to mind.
01:52:14:04 - 01:52:16:03
Hal
Was.
01:52:16:05 - 01:52:21:13
Raymond Carter, and I have, you.
01:52:21:13 - 01:52:22:04
Hal
Know, I've held.
01:52:22:04 - 01:52:22:12
Him up.
01:52:22:12 - 01:52:23:19
Hal
Here for he's like.
01:52:24:01 - 01:52:26:13
If I'm in, I'm never going to be naming Carter.
01:52:26:15 - 01:52:27:10
Hal
01:52:27:12 - 01:52:32:14
And no one ever will because the time of Fort Worth growing at that time. What the influence.
01:52:32:14 - 01:52:33:23
Hal
That he had.
01:52:34:01 - 01:52:35:05
And what a newspaper.
01:52:35:05 - 01:52:36:12
Hal
Could do at that.
01:52:36:12 - 01:52:38:03
Time.
01:52:38:05 - 01:52:40:11
Hal
You know, it was it was.
01:52:40:13 - 01:52:40:22
Not what.
01:52:40:22 - 01:52:42:09
Hal
It is today.
01:52:42:11 - 01:52:43:20
There's so many news sources now.
01:52:43:20 - 01:52:46:00
Hal
Right. But that is a huge, huge.
01:52:46:00 - 01:52:47:11
Thing that he did in Fort Worth.
01:52:47:15 - 01:52:49:01
Hal
What he did over his career.
01:52:49:01 - 01:52:49:17
And how much.
01:52:49:22 - 01:52:52:23
Hal
Notoriety he brought to our city.
01:52:53:01 - 01:52:55:23
You know, and, and his publications.
01:52:56:01 - 01:52:56:15
Hal
They did a great.
01:52:56:15 - 01:52:58:11
Job of telling stories.
01:52:58:13 - 01:52:59:08
Hal
A lot of that.
01:52:59:08 - 01:53:03:20
And so, you know, when you think back about, I mean, they got.
01:53:03:20 - 01:53:05:00
Hal
To have the.
01:53:05:03 - 01:53:10:00
Named after him, right? I mean, it's, one of the small things that he has going for him, but.
01:53:10:01 - 01:53:14:22
Hal
He left a legacy in Fort Worth for what he did philanthropically.
01:53:15:00 - 01:53:15:16
What he did.
01:53:15:16 - 01:53:18:08
Hal
Business wise, and, you know.
01:53:18:10 - 01:53:20:02
I don't know anybody else.
01:53:20:04 - 01:53:23:18
Hal
That really has matched that.
01:53:23:20 - 01:53:26:22
You know, the bastards have done so much, but.
01:53:27:00 - 01:53:28:00
Hal
But, yeah, he has.
01:53:28:01 - 01:53:29:11
Because he's in the same industry.
01:53:29:11 - 01:53:31:05
Hal
And he would, by the way, was a sales guy.
01:53:31:07 - 01:53:32:15
Okay? He was not a creative.
01:53:32:20 - 01:53:37:02
Hal
Yeah. He was the sales guy that bought the the paper. Yeah.
01:53:37:04 - 01:53:47:10
And, you know, his his, you know, I bring my lunch to Dallas so I don't spend money in their economy. That was one of his, you know, and.
01:53:47:12 - 01:53:48:02
Hal
He is he's.
01:53:48:02 - 01:53:49:01
Got so many wonderful.
01:53:49:01 - 01:53:51:14
Hal
Things. Legacy wise, that I look at and.
01:53:51:14 - 01:53:55:17
Say, man, I'd. I'd love to be considered something like that.
01:53:55:19 - 01:53:56:11
Hal
So when it's all said.
01:53:56:11 - 01:54:00:00
And done as a person.
01:54:00:02 - 01:54:00:09
Hal
What.
01:54:00:09 - 01:54:01:18
He did in Fort Worth and as a.
01:54:01:18 - 01:54:02:06
Hal
Business.
01:54:02:06 - 01:54:02:18
Person.
01:54:02:18 - 01:54:03:23
Hal
And as a.
01:54:04:01 - 01:54:04:11
01:54:04:16 - 01:54:08:22
Hal
Publisher. What he was able to do for Fort Worth.
01:54:09:00 - 01:54:09:19
01:54:09:21 - 01:54:11:12
Hal
I would love to be able to.
01:54:11:13 - 01:54:14:01
To have someone think, hey man.
01:54:14:03 - 01:54:14:12
Hal
How was.
01:54:14:12 - 01:54:15:02
Kind of like.
01:54:15:02 - 01:54:16:17
Hal
That? I'd be okay with that.
01:54:16:17 - 01:54:19:12
He's kind of he's kind of.
01:54:19:14 - 01:54:24:01
Hal
Got a legacy like that on a different scale. Yeah, I would be happy with that.
01:54:24:04 - 01:54:45:14
Jamey
Yeah, I think you. I think you have that. I think I think for us to be very different without the magazine, my personal career, business wise and everything, like, like, as I told you earlier, it's just it really is like a community glue and a culture glue and, and you highlight so much that's going on and people that are doing neat things and then it just brings.
01:54:45:15 - 01:55:02:22
Jamey
Yeah. So but in, in my day and age that it has made a huge, huge impact. So I think so thank you. Thank you. Doing it I appreciate you doing it. Yeah. Thanks for spending all this time and sharing your story with us. What a what a fun one. And then what's what's next? Anything new and exciting on the horizon?
01:55:03:00 - 01:55:04:14
Hal
We've got to, you know, dream or.
01:55:04:14 - 01:55:05:15
Dream homes, dream streets.
01:55:05:15 - 01:55:10:02
Hal
Or, or big part of our company.
01:55:10:04 - 01:55:11:02
And we've got.
01:55:11:04 - 01:55:16:23
Hal
We've got some great things happening. We got Dream Home we're doing in Aledo this year.
01:55:17:00 - 01:55:19:04
And you know, Alito, as you know, is blowing up.
01:55:19:04 - 01:55:23:08
Hal
And they've got the blue Jack ranch, which is the Tiger Woods golf course.
01:55:23:10 - 01:55:24:23
Which a side note.
01:55:25:01 - 01:55:25:17
Hal
I lived across.
01:55:25:17 - 01:55:27:05
The street from that with 28 acres.
01:55:27:05 - 01:55:28:03
Hal
For 25 years.
01:55:28:03 - 01:55:28:14
Jamey
Oh, really?
01:55:28:14 - 01:55:30:13
And I sold it in 17. Now they.
01:55:30:13 - 01:55:32:14
Hal
Put Tiger Woods golf course across the street.
01:55:32:14 - 01:55:33:15
Jamey
To be worth a lot, a.
01:55:33:19 - 01:55:34:01
Hal
Lot.
01:55:34:01 - 01:55:35:04
It's going to kill when every.
01:55:35:04 - 01:55:35:11
Hal
Sale.
01:55:35:11 - 01:55:38:04
So but and then.
01:55:38:10 - 01:55:39:23
Hal
Between here and there where.
01:55:39:23 - 01:55:40:17
Whitestone is.
01:55:40:17 - 01:55:41:13
Hal
Right past that is.
01:55:41:18 - 01:55:42:02
The new.
01:55:42:02 - 01:55:42:13
Hal
Discovery.
01:55:42:13 - 01:55:43:03
Land, which is.
01:55:43:03 - 01:55:44:09
Hal
The Vaccaro.
01:55:44:11 - 01:55:45:05
01:55:45:07 - 01:55:50:02
Hal
People that developed Vaccaro and places all over the world. High, high, high end.
01:55:50:04 - 01:55:52:07
Development. So,
01:55:52:09 - 01:55:55:16
Hal
That's incredible for us as a city.
01:55:55:18 - 01:55:57:17
What they're doing, and it's going to bring in.
01:55:57:17 - 01:55:58:18
Hal
Business.
01:55:58:20 - 01:55:59:12
And for us.
01:55:59:12 - 01:55:59:21
Hal
Are if we can.
01:55:59:21 - 01:56:02:00
Get our dream streets and we're meeting with them about doing a dream.
01:56:02:00 - 01:56:02:13
Hal
Street there.
01:56:02:17 - 01:56:04:13
Oh that's cool. So in a number of ways.
01:56:04:13 - 01:56:04:21
Hal
Those two.
01:56:04:21 - 01:56:07:05
Developments,
01:56:07:06 - 01:56:11:01
Hal
Are going to be a big, big part of what people are talking about.
01:56:11:03 - 01:56:12:00
Over the next couple of.
01:56:12:00 - 01:56:14:11
Hal
Years, because the Tiger Woods golf course, the.
01:56:14:11 - 01:56:15:14
Second one ever in.
01:56:15:16 - 01:56:16:11
Hal
The US.
01:56:16:13 - 01:56:17:20
And then.
01:56:17:22 - 01:56:18:12
Hal
The Discovery.
01:56:18:12 - 01:56:19:12
Land, they have an 18.
01:56:19:14 - 01:56:20:21
Hal
Hole golf course, a 12 hole.
01:56:20:21 - 01:56:22:16
Golf course, and then a.
01:56:22:18 - 01:56:26:04
Hal
An a three hole course. All right. Right there. Yeah, yeah.
01:56:26:04 - 01:56:28:11
So it's it's going to be an amazing.
01:56:28:13 - 01:56:29:00
Hal
Resort.
01:56:29:04 - 01:56:32:06
Jamey
Yeah. Cool, cool cool. How thanks so much, man. Appreciate it.
01:56:32:06 - 01:56:36:21
Hal
Thank you brother.
01:56:36:23 - 01:57:01:16
Jamey
Congratulations. You made it to the end. Appreciate you listening. If you enjoy what you heard, if you enjoy these episodes, please subscribe and like and share wherever you listen to podcasts. When you do that, it goes a long way and helps us continue to produce great new content. This episode is brought to you by six App Storytelling, where we help businesses grow their brands.
01:57:01:17 - 01:57:09:11
Jamey
The power of storytelling. If you're an entrepreneur who is interested in learning more about that, please visit sixth App storytelling.com. Today.