Let's Talk with Leaha & Rhonda December 23, 2023

What is Let's Talk with Leaha & Rhonda?

Leaha Crawford and Rhonda Nolen are business consultants that discuss the current struggles of small business owners and entrepreneurs. Each episode covers steps necessary for smaller businesses and business owners to grow and prosper.

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You're listening to locally produced programming created in KU NBC Studios on public radio K, u and v. 91.5. The following is a paid program sponsored by Crawford management group and smart time consultants. Please be advised that the voices and opinions you hear did not represent the views of 91.5 Jazz anymore. The University of Nevada Las Vegas or the Board of Regents of the Nevada System of Higher Education.

Unknown Speaker 0:34
Hi, my name is Leah Crawford.

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And I'm Rhonda Nolan.

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And you're listening to the let's talk with Leah and Rhonda show for

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all the beautiful entrepreneurs out there. This is for you. Good morning. Las Vegas. Hi, Leah. How are you feeling this beautiful Saturday morning.

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Wish You a Merry Christmas? Are you ready?

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I'm ready. I'm ready.

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You finally ready? Finally.

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Finally ready? Last week was rough but this week? You got it?

Unknown Speaker 1:02
You gotta get how many trees did you put up?

Unknown Speaker 1:04
None yet, but I will be I'm in the spirit now. I'm feeling excited. Okay, it's not gonna take me long. I have the easy trees that you know kind of put two pieces you put them together and lights already on. That will take you just put the ball was on there. I begin. Okay,

Unknown Speaker 1:19
so I am. All trees are up. Oh, I purchased another little teeny tree. So now we have five Oh, am superduper excited. It feels like so, so excited.

Unknown Speaker 1:34
Well, Las Vegas today is the 23rd. And tomorrow was Christmas. See, even in Monday. It's Christmas. We're so excited. We hope that all you all of you all have lots of fun plans with your family and kids and loved ones over this holiday

Unknown Speaker 1:48
season. Yes, we do. Well, today we are again, we, y'all we're gonna we're staying with this trust in the States. Because we we find that it's very, very important. Right? I can't tell you the number of people telling me when we set up a trust. I think it was set up in the state and don't have a clue.

Unknown Speaker 2:03
Do they have? I mean, do they have any property? Or do they have anything to? Do they have any money? Do they have anything? They don't need a trust?

Unknown Speaker 2:11
That's what I say. So that's it. But they heard Tiktok Esquire Oh told them that they needed to trust. Oh, I see. So today we found someone that this is what they do. So we have attorney Pamela Jones in the studio with us.

Unknown Speaker 2:26
Good morning. Welcome. Welcome.

Unknown Speaker 2:29
Thank you. Good morning to both of you.

Unknown Speaker 2:30
Good morning. So Pamela, first, thank you for accepting our invitation to come and talk to the listeners. Thank you just about what you do. And this is painless for someone already. So everybody welcome her. She, she's smiling. She's grinning, and she's ready just to give you a bunch of information. Talk about your background and talk about what you do. What does your law office do?

Unknown Speaker 2:51
Sure, my law office focuses exclusively on probate and estate planning matters. My background, I went to college, and I thought I was going to be in business. And I worked for a Health Policy Center for many years until my mother in law died one night without any. I mean, it was a complete surprise to us. And she died without any documents in place whatsoever. And so we went through a probate for her death because none of us knew what to do. And it was expensive and confusing. And everyone started fighting immediately, you know, including who's going to be in charge. So that I decided then in there, I was going to go to law school. So Wow. Yeah. So I went to law school, I was about 40 and went to school at night. So I and I knew that this is what I wanted to do Probate and Estate Planning when I went to school. So that's what I've been doing for the last 1516 years and after I graduated from law school, so

Unknown Speaker 3:49
that's fantast oh my god that is that that that is never

Unknown Speaker 3:52
too late to follow your dream, never to whenever it comes to you doesn't come to everybody the same time. That's I love that.

Unknown Speaker 3:58
I love it too. All right. So let's talk about it probate. What is probate?

Unknown Speaker 4:02
Well, probate is the process we have to go through to it's through the court, and it's whether you have a will or you don't have any documents in place. The court wants to make sure that all your creditors are paid and the court wants to make sure that the correct will is being sent through the system and that all the beneficiaries are protected. So there are good parts about probate, but it's expensive and it's public and it's time consuming and most people want to avoid it.

Unknown Speaker 4:31
Okay, so then how do you avoid it? Well, you avoid it

Unknown Speaker 4:34
usually by establishing some sort of a trust and there are all types of different all different types of trusts. The most common is a revocable trust because,

Unknown Speaker 4:43
okay, so revocable Thank you revocable trust. What is a revocable trust.

Unknown Speaker 4:49
A revocable trust is a trust where you can make changes to it and and you can revoke it just get rid of it completely. When you establish a trust you Put property in the trust. And if you revoke it, you just take it back out and you go on your own way, put it back in, in your individual name. But a revocable trust is the most flexible and the most common trust that people establish. It's really a probate avoidance technique. When you want to avoid court, because of the assets that you hold or probate double assets, then you establish a trust and what is it profitable asset is?

Unknown Speaker 5:28
Thank you. You know, I was I was writing it down, ready, come on, right.

Unknown Speaker 5:31
If you have a real property, if you own your own home, that's a probate double asset, the assets and you usually hold it in your name as an individual or if you're married commonly, it's joint tenancy. And that property, if it's joint tenancy, the survivor can take it without going through probate, but at the second death, then we have to probate the property and and it will go if you haven't established a will or anything, it goes by intestate succession. And if you have established a will, it goes to whoever you you said it, it should go to

Unknown Speaker 6:00
oh, wait, I gotta ask your I say,

Unknown Speaker 6:01
right. Because you you don't go some terms out there. More of this revocable

Unknown Speaker 6:06
trust, say I put, I'm just making this up. I put my brother's name on it, and then his son's name on it. And I'm thinking that my brother would outlive me. So he would be next in line. But then thinking ahead, his son would outlive him. So his name would be next on the trust to handle any business or take over any property or anything like that. Is that correct? Yes.

Unknown Speaker 6:28
Yes, you always have alternates, because we never know what's going to happen, right? You can name your best friend, and that person could die before you do or not want to act. And frequently we have people who are, maybe they've got a lot of issues in their own life, they don't want to act you should always have I always say two alternates. Okay, two alternates,

Unknown Speaker 6:46
that's a revocable trust. Okay, so what's, what was the other type of trust? I'm not I'm not gonna say it was. There

Unknown Speaker 6:55
are lots of different types of trusts. But if, as opposed to revocable, irrevocable, meaning, you can't amend it, change it, you're essentially transferring money into this trust, and you've set the terms and, and you, technically, you can't revoke it.

Unknown Speaker 7:10
Technically, you can't revoke it, right. So you set the terms. And the terms just are the terms,

Unknown Speaker 7:16
the terms are the terms and frequently, you may be able to take an income interest off of it, but it's no longer your property, you know, you You're, you're putting it in this irrevocable trust, you're transferring out of your name. And the and the terms of the trust designate where it goes, maybe you can take an income interest during your life, but you can't take the principal. And there are various reasons to establish an irrevocable trust, the primary reason would be one of them is asset protection, if you want to if you're worried about being sued, etc.

Unknown Speaker 7:47
Okay, so basically, now let me ask you this, if the trust generates an income, does the trust need to do a tax return? It

Unknown Speaker 7:55
does. And if we have, this is so frequent, if you have a revocable trust, which most people have just to avoid probate, and then you die, your trust becomes irrevocable at your death, when it becomes irrevocable. It gets its own tax ID number. And when it gets its own tax ID number it has to start paying taxes. So we file a 1040, the trust would file a 1041. And that's it's just an income tax return for a trust. Now, do

Unknown Speaker 8:23
you do that service as well?

Unknown Speaker 8:24
I do not I refer to qualified CPAs to do that.

Unknown Speaker 8:28
Okay, let me get this straight. Okay. So now if the trust makes money, so okay, for trust makes money

Unknown Speaker 8:37
give you let me give you an example. Give me Give me Give me an example. You have royalties. Okay, so royalties you set up to trust. So all the monies goes to the trust. So they don't go to you personally, you protected, the royalties go there. So the trust then can either give money to the designated beneficiaries, give them K ones, or the trust pays attack, to pay taxes on the income that is earned.

Unknown Speaker 9:02
So if I, if I had, if I had money coming from a trust to me, say, once a quarter, right, four times a year, then the trust, then I would have to file taxes on the money that I received from the trust and then the trust itself would file taxes as well saying that it gave me the money, is that correct?

Unknown Speaker 9:17
Well, if the trust can pass through the income to you and give you a k one, and or the trust can pay the tax itself. And so it's sort of one of the other interesting

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is one

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or the other, but we're okay. Now, let me ask you this. Do you need people when you do this? Should someone just jump out there and do it on their own? Or should they really use a professional in this instance,

Unknown Speaker 9:41
I've had, I would highly suggest using a professional and there are a lot of options out there for preparing your own documents. And I'm not saying it can't work. Absolutely. But I've had several instances where people think they know what they're doing. And they've set up a document which will end up in litigation later or or ended up very, you know, devastatingly for the family, the property is not going where they thought it was going to go.

Unknown Speaker 10:07
Okay, the property is not going where they thought, right, because they didn't have a conversation right beforehand, right.

Unknown Speaker 10:13
They set up the trust, and they said, they just set up the wrong terms. And and, you know, essentially, it's, the court will look to the document and they signed the document, they prepared the document, and it will do what it they said that it was going to do, and unless you have overwhelming evidence, that that to the contrary, the court will go by what what the document says, interesting.

Unknown Speaker 10:40
So I have covered so many questions, so many, we will be here all day, I have a quote now, should a person have a will and a trust or just a trust?

Unknown Speaker 10:49
Well, if you have a revocable trust, you also want to have a will we call it a pour over will, okay, just grabs anything that's not in the trust already. pours it over to the trust. So we only have distribution terms under one document.

Unknown Speaker 11:02
Oh, interesting. Because so many people leave this earth with no trust, no will know nothing. And then families are left to try to figure out what the person wants it, you know? And it just becomes a nightmare. It does. Yes,

Unknown Speaker 11:17
it's the the worst thing you can do is leave no direction whatsoever. Because the family will listen to what you say people are always worried about hurting someone's feelings. But if you put it down in writing, and you say what you want, the family will accept it and and move on. It's when we have ambiguous terms or questions. That's when we have people fighting and trying to take control with so

Unknown Speaker 11:40
let me say this. So if you if you've heard this information, it's intriguing to you, Attorney Pamela Jones at 702-370-6102. Again, 702-370-6102. Look, the holiday seasons here. You're about to be around family and friends. We can laugh joke, but y'all let's get the planet. And let's plan because we never know

Unknown Speaker 12:05
you never know never know. And let me tell you something. My sad story very quickly. My grandmother, my mother's mother was had 20 Brothers and sisters. So when the parents died, they were all fighting over the house and whatnot. So when she saw all of this, she said everything up. She had two children. She said everything up equally two separate bank accounts, same amount of money. She had our will done everything and the property and whatnot. She left she put it in her will that you know they split everything 5050. So when she passed it, she would pay for a funeral and picked out her outfit and did her obituary picked all her songs the whole night. And I thought to myself, she made this very easy. So my my mother and her brother didn't have to have one negative word about anything because she had left it all set up a particular way where everybody would be okay. And that's what we have to think about is the people who were leaving behind to deal with all of our business. Absolutely. That

Unknown Speaker 12:56
was a real gift she left. Yes, she

Unknown Speaker 12:58
did. She did.

Unknown Speaker 12:59
You just got dressed and showed up. It's all we did. She did. What did she tell you what time she wanted

Unknown Speaker 13:03
to have? That's the only thing she picked out everything else. I asked her to pastor the phones, the obituary, she loved the flowers, too. She didn't do that. So we had an opportunity to pick the time at a funeral and to purchase the flowers went well, but that was it everything else she had done.

Unknown Speaker 13:21
So I say I I am someone did they just did just die and I am the executor of an estate I now I don't know what to do. I mean, where do I start? What do I do?

Unknown Speaker 13:32
Right? If you're the trust name trustee of the trust an executor of the will then you start the trust administration process. And we can help people with that. But it is daunting. And the first thing to do is read the documents read the trust as much as you can understand of it because they're generally very complicated and long documents, but get some help and and just get some guidance on how to move forward and how to file the tax return what to do, and there are people out there who can help and and we do help with trust administration. Okay,

Unknown Speaker 14:02
so I'll say that because I messed it up. I said the executor or the trustee of the trust is executor of the will. And trustee of the trust trustee of the trust trustee of the trust executor of the will. Right. Got it and the when you name these people you want someone that's responsible. Absolutely.

Unknown Speaker 14:20
And don't call it trustee for now. Right.

Unknown Speaker 14:23
Right. Well, no. And but the thing about it is you have to know your children because you're old. I mean, you're just the people that are around you.

Unknown Speaker 14:30
Yes. Yes. And I have people who want to name all their children to act get together. And I generally recommend against that. Pick one, somebody who's who's responsible, who's maybe dealt with financial transactions before and just put them in charge and they can always hire people to help them. But when you put everybody in the same pot and they all have equal decision making power, then people tend to fight. People tend

Unknown Speaker 14:53
to fight. Yeah. All right. So you're saying just pick one, let them and you assist because Louie did those documents? A lot of times, yes, they're very long. Yeah, they're very long. And most of us don't read, we read two pages in this like, Okay, we got to come back to this.

Unknown Speaker 15:09
Right. And a lot of those provisions are in there for just in case they're not necessary for the eighth day to day administration of the trust. So someone like me could look through it pretty quickly. Whereas it might take someone who's never read a document like that before. A day and a half to read through

Unknown Speaker 15:24
it. Easy. Yeah, I will say about two weeks.

Unknown Speaker 15:27
Yeah. Hire the professional. No, cuz they're gonna cry because you got to cry and everything,

Unknown Speaker 15:30
because you Oh, we bought your boo and your emotional Yes, during that time. So in a you might think that's a if somebody noticed me, right, give the wrong information. Now, again, your number 70237061027023706102. And she has two offices, one downtown Las Vegas, we are neighbors, we are gonna go walking at 627 South Seventh Street and Hawala pie in twain. So talk to the professional, somebody that is passionate about what they do to ensure that your business is handled properly.

Unknown Speaker 16:11
And if you're a business owner, you absolutely need a will and a trust you. Absolutely. So the first thing you should do is you should reach out and talk to him if Joe so she can talk to you about how you can protect yourself and protect your business.

Unknown Speaker 16:25
Ya know, this is huge. This is huge. So we talked about how you got How did you get to Vegas? Because I mean, you educated in California, how'd you get to Vegas?

Unknown Speaker 16:36
Well, my parents both lived here. And and they started meeting some help. And so I moved out here. And my sister eventually moved back here. She used to live here. She lived her from 86 through I think 2001. She moved away, and then she came back. So my dad's passed away now, but it's my mom, my sister and I so family brought me family brought you here at how you like it. I love it. I moved out here, I did not expect to stay long or to like it. And I fell in love with it. And this is my home, this is your home, this is your home.

Unknown Speaker 17:08
For those people who are thinking about a career change. Tell me about your experience is going to law school at age 40. And going at night part time. Tell me a little bit about that.

Unknown Speaker 17:20
I don't have that energy now. But it was it was terrifying and exciting. And probably the best thing I could have ever done it it was it was challenging to say the least. And it required. You know, it requires help. And at the time I was married and so had some assistance there. But it was, but I would highly recommend it. And like you said it's never too late and to follow something that you feel so passionate about want to do. Got

Unknown Speaker 17:53
it. So because I always say the first year Hall did your little the first year of law school is difficult. Yes. For everyone. Did you find that to be your experience?

Unknown Speaker 18:06
Very much. So I was older than the other students generally. And it I think the first year of law school is designed to make you believe or not believe in yourself to really, you know, it's it's it stretches you in every way rites of passage. You're right. Yes. And just really think I'll never make it through. And so you know, when you finally get through, it's it's you know, I had a great study group that I got together with we met every weekend, we were in the library together every weekend. And so, you know, like I said, support from all different areas really helped me through it really helped

Unknown Speaker 18:44
you through it. But you had done your MBA before that, but you had done that closer to the time you did your bachelor's? Exactly. We had a little bit of time in between,

Unknown Speaker 18:52
right? Yes.

Unknown Speaker 18:53
Did you find that the MBA helped you in law school?

Unknown Speaker 18:55
You know, I think the MBA was helpful, just in a general sense. Yes. And, and in, in business in general. And law school was just a different way of thinking completely for me. And so I think the MBA helped with business part. And then after law school, when I can start my own practice, then then it comes in handy as well.

Unknown Speaker 19:17
Yeah, no, because, honestly, because lawyers do think differently. A lot they do is like, How'd you get that? Okay, okay. All right. I understand. So do you tend to take the LSAT? First, you took the LSAT? I did. Yes. The bar, where do you take the bar? Because did they have the universal bar exam when you took the bar or

Unknown Speaker 19:37
I took the bar, I took the bar in California in 2007. And that was the three full three day exam. And then I took the bar out here in 2015. So I had I wish I had done that closer together.

Unknown Speaker 19:52
Did you pass the bar the first time you took it? I did. Oh, congratulations. That's the California Bar is off. Hard bar. That's

Unknown Speaker 20:01
what they say yes. And it was, it was challenging. But again, you know, they have they have prep courses and stayed with my study group that was through the whole process. And they prepare you, if you do the work, they prepare you if you do the work, right. So

Unknown Speaker 20:15
again, follow your dreams, but just know following your dreams, it's going to require just you to build a different type of grid, and you're going to have to do the work. And whatever the work is because you don't know what the work is until the work presents itself. And yours was to study and probably, yes. A lot of studying and working out. Yes, yes. Not a study, if you were very

Unknown Speaker 20:35
serious, you know, by the time you decided to go to law school, you were like, Hey, I've, you know, I've saw what these things do to people. Let me figure out how I can help other people. And so you went into law, and that's and that's, that's great. It really is.

Unknown Speaker 20:47
It's like anything else? If you have a driving purpose, it helps tremendously as

Unknown Speaker 20:51
a driving purpose. Yes, I drive. And

Unknown Speaker 20:54
now let's talk about your business. Do you have any children who are gonna walk into your footsteps and take over the law firm and keep it going? Nope. No children? Oh, yeah.

Unknown Speaker 21:03
But I, I would love to have a junior attorney. And I won't call them Junior, but an attorney and Associate Attorney at some point, come along and take over the practice eventually. But that's gonna be a long time from now.

Unknown Speaker 21:14
Do you hear that? UNLV law students? Yes, they there is a law firm here that will train you teach you and would like for you to take over one day in life.

Unknown Speaker 21:24
I've had I've had two fabulous when was an intern when he was a law clerk working for me from UNLV. And I also have a student working for me now as an assistant. And she's incredible. And she's a senior here.

Unknown Speaker 21:36
Oh, wonderful. And that's amazing. Because I know when I was at Howard, I worked for a older attorney. And he would use their year he always hired third year law students. And we had a third year law student and Officer every year, we had a new 1/3 year law students and most of them passed the bar on the first time. That's great, nice. But just because I haven't had experience i Something about that one on one. And they're able to talk through some things. And they're Yeah, most of them pass the ball on the first time. We did that for years.

Unknown Speaker 22:06
And it's interesting, because law school and working in a law office are also two different things. And it and just having that concrete experience helps tremendously with all the concepts you're working with.

Unknown Speaker 22:16
And that's what he's because they would have conversations and I will sit down like I am I have no idea what you're talking about. And they write eloquently.

Unknown Speaker 22:24
I was gonna ask you Do you love writing?

Unknown Speaker 22:26
Do I love writing? I think that I've grown to really appreciate writing. And, and I think that as I've gotten older and gotten more experienced, brevity is what I always strive for. As opposed to in the beginning, I think I was a little more flowy.

Unknown Speaker 22:41
Like, once upon a time, and we were because I told somebody I was like going to the store for an attorney is, you know, I had to sit down, I had to tie my shoe. Then I looked at the floor. I mean, they it's just drawn out is drawn out. But I love the fact that you said brevity. Now do you use a lot of software's to like in your practice?

Unknown Speaker 22:58
I do. Yes. We have client management software. And then we have software for the documents creating the documents. Of course they have, you know, accounting software, it also all sorts of software is a

Unknown Speaker 23:10
slightly easier now, I know when you first started, you probably will they probably weren't using typewriters yet. They probably don't own a computer. Because I know at one point this was all typewriter work. Yeah. I thought it was typing all the stuff. And if there was an error, they had to go back and fix it all that but it got easier when we when when computers came into play, and have to go in and make edits and do the things that you need it because the typing. Yeah. No,

Unknown Speaker 23:31
I agree. wordprocessing was one of the greatest greatest inventions ever.

Unknown Speaker 23:35
And the fact that she said we're processing so you know, right? She said, we're processing. We're processing because I remember what the remember the first computer? Yes, the first. I mean, I remember in elementary school, and they were talking about computers, and that was I saw where you can put this big thing. It's huge. But now it's on your phone. So I know it's made the practice a lot. I wouldn't say easier, but a lot more efficient.

Unknown Speaker 23:58
Absolutely. And you'd mentioned the phone, even my client management software's on the phone. So if I need to take notes, I can do it right then and there. And if I'm on the phone with someone, so it is, you know, technology has some drawbacks, but overall, it's very helpful. It's very helpful.

Unknown Speaker 24:13
As a female entrepreneur, was it hard for you to start your own practice? Here?

Unknown Speaker 24:18
That is a great question. I, I worked for another attorney for six years before I started my own practice. I wanted to get some experience under my belt. And I don't think being a female. What? I didn't view it as a challenge. Because but I think that's also a part of the area of law that I'm in. It's a very family oriented, it's very, you know, there's a lot of private information. Yeah, a lot of nurturing conversations, so I didn't feel it was a drawback.

Unknown Speaker 24:46
That's wonderful. No, that's that's actually amazing. Amazing. Well, I I'm glad so I want to go over this one more time. So most popular revocable trust, right, because you can pull stuff in and out now with a revocable trust. If it's income generating, then it needs a federal ID number.

Unknown Speaker 25:04
Well, if it's a revocable trust, if I'm just establishing a trust to avoid probate, then it's using my social security number. So I'm not going to have to file a separate return at all until until I die. And that then it then it has to file its own return.

Unknown Speaker 25:18
Okay, so it only files want to return upon death. I mean, just the last return, right?

Unknown Speaker 25:24
Well, it's yes. So let's say I die and I have a lot of money and my trust becomes irrevocable, that trust may be in existence for several years after that. So there may be several returns to file for that as it as it generates income, to be distributed for whatever purpose I set I have, but generally, the idea is with revocable trust, I die, my assets are distributed fairly quickly, because the beneficiaries are always eager, eager, yes, eager, and wrap that up within a year? Yes. Got it,

Unknown Speaker 25:53
I have a quite a crazy question. What happens when people leave, they have trust, they leave everything to their dog or cat,

Unknown Speaker 25:59
you certainly can do that. And it can just be held in trust for the benefit of the dog or the cat that it has statutes on the books to allow for that. And, and then when the animal dies, you provide for what happens to the money at that point.

Unknown Speaker 26:13
So in that case, I would have my pet's name and say that he was a pet, but then I'd have somebody a couple of people after him. Because, you know, we know that the life existence for a pet is not that long, but we would have a person after that who could take care of everything.

Unknown Speaker 26:27
Absolutely. Yes, you have to have a trustee and that person is usually in charge of taking care of the pet. Right. And I've had clients who leave their entire home to for it to be left for the pets to be taken care of until the pets pass away. Now,

Unknown Speaker 26:40
interesting in that guy. I'm

Unknown Speaker 26:41
stunned. Right. I'm stunned. I'm stunned. Well, you want to know what attorney JONES Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for accepting the invitation coming on the show and educating our audience again. Attorney Jones can be reached at 70237061027023706102 Rhonda, do you have anything good going on next week? Oh, boy,

Unknown Speaker 27:10
it's just Christmas. I'll just be with the family and hopefully it won't be snowing and I'll have my home. I'm going home. You're

Unknown Speaker 27:17
going home. Okay, I'm gonna be I'm gonna sit right here and look at my trees in front of the fireplace. And I'm gonna send me some songs and eat drink me some cocoa and probably you know, just go around town and look at the lights. I like it. I like it the lights. Alright. Until next

Unknown Speaker 27:30
week, until next week, Las Vegas you've been listening to Let's Talk with Lee and Rhonda.

Unknown Speaker 27:34
I'm Lea Crawford. I'm

Unknown Speaker 27:35
Rhonda Nolan. Thank you, Attorney Jones. Everybody have a fabulous holiday season. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai