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This Dental Specific Podcast is dedicated to the Dental "Entrepreneur" Michael Dinsio, Founder of Next Level Consultants, delivers #TRUTH when starting up a dental practice. From the very first step to getting the keys of a dental practice, Michael shares his raw & unscripted playbook with you. Not only does this podcast provide you with "What To Do" but more importantly "What Not To Do". With over over 15 years of experience & over 150 past clients, Michael delivers an educational and informative program in a real and genuine way. Start w/ Episode 01 - as we go through a STEP by STEP process.
00:03
That question is so loaded, John. I don't even know where to start with Well, I guess the problem is, and by the way, I love that question. Interesting. This is an interesting topic. What's the solution here? Show up, understand your part, and just crush it. Pay per click, social media, we can talk about all this stuff. But what really matters is patient experience, that wow factor.
00:33
Please are you listening to yourself? Come on! What are you talking about? Yeah exactly, so sit back, take notes and listen. Oh, oh, I love this. This is gonna be fun.
00:48
Startup Unscripted. The questions you have with the truth you need to hear. And now your hosts, Michael Dinsio and John Bertagni.
01:08
Right, all right. This is episode real estate shark tank. We're getting, we're getting after it. This is, this is the big week. What we're doing today is we're, we're interviewing one of the biggest powerhouses in, in Arizona, Colorado, Nevada. These guys get it. And this is, this is startup unscripted. Let's get right into this. John, my friend and partner. Thanks for being here today. How you doing buddy?
01:37
I'm doing good. I don't know if I had a choice of not being here, but I'm glad I'm here. Oh, okay. Well, so now I'm excited about this. This, you know, Christian Guile of Guile Real Estate. mean, come on. It's, he and I go way back. I know you do too. And we're just happy to have him on. He's, done a great job for me over the years and he's done a great job for people in.
02:04
all the markets you mentioned and I, you know, I'm just happy he's a, he's a part of the team here. Christian, how are you my man? I'm good, man. It's always great to reconnect with you homies. Um, just thinking back when we, when back to when we first met John and, uh, Colorado is back in Colorado. None of those stories, please. Yes. Yes. We're going there. And I do remember one specific night in downtown Denver after the, the
02:34
Rocky Mountain Dental Convention.
02:37
You don't have any idea who you're dealing with until he breaks out of harmonica. In lower downtown Denver, takes the stage, takes the stage and actually runs the whole bar. Just starts ripping tunes from... you have the harmonica with you? I... Don't even lie. I'm fastened to this chair. I'm fastened to this chair. In your pocket. Is the harmonica in your pocket?
03:08
That's amazing. It's a great story. No, he's actually really good. So it was a blue they were playing blues that night and he got up there and everybody's like, what is Bert doing? And you get gets up there and he starts he starts rocking it. It's it was really, really sweet. But anyway, moved down to Arizona and you know, in pursuit of family sunshine and opportunity. Hang on one second, Christian, I think you should maybe do a little segment right now like a 20 second.
03:36
tidbit or 30 seconds of, you know, deeper of why the West, you know, why the West because people are moving out of Chicago. They're moving out of those places because of taxes, whatever the hell else is going on. So really quick, why the West right now? So it's a good question that the answer to your question is, I think that people are looking for kind of like the new some going back to normalcy.
04:06
We have 250 people flowing in to Maricopa County on a daily basis. And we're not losing that many right now. Like it's not like 250 coming in and 250 going out. It's like 250 coming in and two or three going out. And the reason is because it's that the politics are still normal here out in the West. People are coming out of Chicago. I hear people are fleeing from New York.
04:34
they're for sure fleeing out of California, because we're seeing more California plates than you can possibly, it's like, there's a ton of that going on here. So I think it's politics, I think it's taxes. I think that people just want to get back to what they remember as a normal US. so- And a little bit of sunshine, right? mean, that's- A whole bunch of sunshine, Tell us about Guile. Let's get right into Guile. Give us a 30 second commercial on Guile. And if anybody knows it,
05:04
Christian, there's no such thing as 30 seconds, but I'm going to challenge you. 30 seconds. Why is Guile the premier commercial real estate broker in the dental space? Go. What gives you guys the success you've got? Well, first, I've been in the business for about 17 years. Actually, it's 18 now. We've negotiated a ridiculous terror of business in terms of specifically dental, but dental
05:32
far and away is our biggest vertical. I we've done, I've personally negotiated over 1500 dental related transactions. And then we have additional, I've got brokers in the office that I've overseen that also handle a ton of negotiations. We're in constant contact with those guys. So we've been there, we've done that. We've got the t-shirt and the coffee mug to go with it. We've seen a lot of
06:02
a lot of different scenarios. So a lot of deals, a lot of deal flow, a lot of deal flow. we, and what's, makes this very different than any other group out in the market here in Arizona is that we only represent one side of the transaction and that's the doctor side of the transaction. Never landlord or seller. So there's never that conflict of interest that the other guys never quite mentioned. It's like a dirty little secret in commercial real estate. You have to be represented. And if a doc calls on a sign and they're like, Hey,
06:31
you know, I just made a phone call that the guy was super nice. Yeah, they're gonna be very nice. They're skilled at being nice, but they don't represent the doctor side of the transaction. They represent the landlord and the other side. The reality of it is that they're trying to get two sides of the transaction. There's the fees designed for two brokers. And if there's, if only one shows up, which represents a landlord or the seller, they're going to dictate all the deal terms and take two sides of that.
06:57
the transaction. my takeaway there, my man, is obviously, you know the business, you know the dirt, and it's integrity based. And you're going to represent our listeners and viewers to the utmost. that's my takeaway. Yeah, 1000%. By the way, that was more than 30 seconds. Easily, easily. But Dinzio also mentioned that there's no short answer. So
07:26
That's true. I want to go back to your system because I remember you telling me at one point in time, the way that you built out, know, Guile and how you did this. And it was really analytics driven. And I think it might've even been some sort of spy stuff you and your brother did. Correct? Like you guys pulled some crazy, crazy data sets that allows you to really understand concentration.
07:56
and also the availability of space. And it really was mind blowing what you did, which is in my mind, I think, pretty darn unique. Yeah, that was pretty... Am I right, by the way? Yes, you are. That was pretty skunk works, if you will, like the dark ops kind of stuff. We bought a whole bunch of databases. We had people on the other side of the planet.
08:24
Scrubbing that data for literally for six months 24 hours a day. We got really clean data set. We took that those data sets and dumped them into a very big data set and then My brother-in-law was is is the number one data scientist in the army. He's he's in charge of determining where the next most likely Terrorist attack whether it's cyber or whatever is so he's
08:52
He was commissioned by these guys to go get his PhD at Stanford. He got that PhD at Stanford. And that allowed us to have the opportunity to go in and work with 100 different data scientists with Stanford. And we got this thing called a hackathon going on. And they said, OK, it's like, all right, here's $500. There's 100 data scientists at Stanford in a room. And I said, I want to know within.
09:20
within the next three years, an 80 % probability of the next doctor who needs to move or to renew their lease and also where the best locations would be. So we had this and also by the way, I wanted to pop up on a Google on a Google device and then go so my brokers can just literally go start hitting balloons and try to help because our goal in life is to help as many doctors as possible. What's going on right now? By the way, yes, this is crazy.
09:50
We're doing Russian spy stuff? What's going on right now? So yeah, so basically involved. So to timestamp this like COVID moment where everybody lost their jobs and the economy's kind of getting going, I want to share something with you guys. I just got this for those that aren't watching on YouTube and are listening audio, I'll share these numbers, but you guys- your eyes on the road. Look at this chart, okay?
10:19
See this? This, if you notice the dates, do you see the curve, right? So the dates are November, December, January, February, March, April, May, June, July, and all the way through to today. That's new patients. Okay. So this is a startup that literally started up before COVID and right in the middle of this was COVID. Okay.
10:45
And I asked them yesterday, said, what was the single thing, the single thing that accomplished that? This is a startup. What do you think they said? Location. Location and referral sources. Well, and for people that are not watching, it's a steady flow of growth on this chart. Let me read it off. Two patients, nine patients.
11:14
25 patients, 45 patients, 69. I mean, it's just blowing up for them. And these are just new patients, of course, because they're starting. 69 was March. Yes, that's exactly right. Yes. So they're growing. They're growing. And so I guess that's the point is, is if you're positioned well, Christian, and you've got a great location, location, location, location, we've all presented, we've all talked about this and
11:43
Who's at the helm of that? That's you. That's you and your firm. And so get into that a little bit. What are some of those things that can get people high visibility? We've heard the shopping. We heard, pair yourself up with the Starbuckses. We've heard some of these things. What's your take on it? What gets you that exposure? So in the dental specific commercial real estate world,
12:12
we target 35,000 cars north of 35,000 cars. 35,000 cars is good visibility for a dental clinic. It's really good. You get to 50,000 cars, that's savage. I just put, they don't need it, the endodontists, they don't need the visibility, but I had this location that I kept my eye on in Raintree in 101, just right in the heart of Scottsdale. Everybody's like, don't do a startup in Scottsdale. It's already built out and so on and so forth. That's true unless you have...
12:38
a bomb ass location. this so we put him right on the highway 250,000 cars per day just like we did with with Dr. Corson at Yale and I 25. Remember that? Yeah, he's like just find me the best location. I can't share his numbers, but they were ridiculous for the first year. This guy's already starting off with the bank. He's an endo it's loop 101. And the Donnix is visible from the interstate. Everybody sees his sign and he's off.
13:07
to the races. So 35,000 cars is good. 50,000 cars is savage. And 250,000 quarter million cars seeing it every day is ridiculous. So this is the way, man, that's, love that you actually shared that data set, because that actually is, you know, data that everyone says, oh, it's cars, number of cars, number of cars, you actually broke it down to
13:33
actually, I haven't heard ridonkulous used on this show. thank you. you know, it's gonna be the first, there's gonna be lot of firsts on this show. No, that's fantastic stat. That's a fantastic No, that's, I really like that because that's something that someone can take to the bank, whether it's in Florida or whether it's in the Southwest. And that's what we're trying to do. It's, this is not only about these particular areas. So, you know, I also look,
14:00
You know, more thing, Here's the next thing. So you can have visibility, but if you don't have access, you're scrizzled. That's another one for you. Scrizzled. So that's interesting because you're talking about access, know, and Mellodin Krall, a dentist out of Chicago, talks about parking. You know, like that's not as much of a big deal in Arizona, or maybe it is, but like, so these are the things that we want on the, you know, access visibility parking.
14:29
Like boom, come on, let's go. So you have to have the visibility. You have to have the access. If it's not easy, people are going to blow and go. They're not super excited to go about going to the dentist to begin with. You have to be able to get in and out super, super easy. You have to also, one of the other things that you very much want to pay attention to is to have access to visibility. You want to make sure you have good signage along the Boulevard. Try to locate on main and main as much as possible. Again, we're targeting specifically GP, ortho, pedo.
14:59
you can get a sick location for endo that's fantastic but you you embed those guys different you put them with the in a hotbed of GPS or referral sources but and that's a different that's a different flavor but you've got to have the parking parking you you would think that here in in the desert where the sand just goes on forever and ever and ever that there's not gonna be a parking issue it is the number one issue in Phoenix you have to be parked at five per thousand to even get a permit
15:28
Little anecdote, we had this one gal that we were working with and she was like, hey, I found a location on my own. And we're like, okay, which one is it? And she told us which one it was and we're like, it's not going to work out. That's why we didn't show it to you. Well, she's like, I'm to do it anyways. We're like, okay. So she gets this location. Eight months later, she's still fighting with the city. After having signed a $750,000 lease, she can't open up because the parking's not there.
15:58
That's why you have to have an expert. So that's exactly what I was just going to say. That's why you need someone. And I love stories. People love data, but they also love stories. So we're going to keep on driving things through stories. And you brought up, you're currently in Phoenix, Arizona, or Scottsdale, or where have you. But when I look at that sprawl, and Colorado is the same way, Nevada is the same way, things just keep on moving outward.
16:28
And you brought it up, you you could actually go back to where there's concentration of dentists. Like you said, Scottsdale, there are still pockets. You don't always have to go, you know, I call it caterpillar of homes where there's just rolling hills of homes to build a startup. You could actually build a new startup within. What are your thoughts on that? That's such a great question.
16:56
The answer to that question, I've been thinking about this a lot, a lot, a lot. And then the reality is, that the new high ground for dental. So if you're in a built out market, like we're in here in Arizona, like there, there are so many dentists, you can't even believe it. Go ahead and if you're crazy down there, how long you're sitting at watching this podcast, go onto your Google, hit a search and say dental and look at the Phoenix Metro area. You will see so many red balloons pop up everywhere. You think that there's not an opportunity.
17:24
The new high ground in a built out market is superior positioning, where you park in the main and main location, you take the best location, and then you just wait for the other guys to start tapping out and then you buy their patient base and then you bring them on over. It's savage, but that's the reality of this of this environment. It's like that. so there's so there's so there's a strategy there. I that that's a great. That's a great strategy. Hey, Christian, I got a question for you real quick. I was
17:53
just working with a startup yesterday and Pito, so a little different, but specialty, you mentioned it, specialist needs to be in the heart of a bunch of GPs. Number one, isn't it interesting for the specialties and how they've gone direct now versus so dependent on the GPs? Like that's still, obviously there's a referral strategy and you need to stay.
18:21
on top of your referral sources and you need to be sending the cookies and the dinners and you need to do that. But isn't it interesting specifically for pedos, patients are smarter, moms are smarter. They're looking for the pediatric dentist sign, right? And so they're going direct. So is there a strategy there for specialists? That's question one. And then, oh, I'll just roll with question two, size.
18:48
You're gonna remind me, because I'll forget number two. That's why I was pausing. But the other thing was size. She wanted to go bigger, 2500 square feet. But I'm finding that construction costs are a factor where we can't afford the build out because we're going too big. Now I'm all about going bigger because you don't want to limit your growth capacity.
19:16
But with the construction issues, which is going to be really where we're heading with this podcast next, we can't afford to build out 2,500 square feet. those are my two things. Sorry, that's a two-part question. Yeah, so that's a great question. So you guys on the consultant side are going to have to figure out how to make those smaller spaces work if we start getting priced out in terms of the build out and so on and so forth.
19:42
know, when you go into a really nice location, obviously, the rents are going to be higher, you got to pay to play the there's a reason why they get higher rents in the in the the sassier locations because they can and that's that's what that's why you drink terrible coffee because you that it there is present and convenient. How much better? Fantastic dental service in a great location. If you're not going to do it, somebody will. So you might as well jump in there and then you have to figure out okay, well, we've got a
20:11
We're going to make the production work and it will work with the high visibility location, but it's got to be positioned just right. Going back to what you're saying is that, the pricing has gotten absolutely crazy. There's two things that are kind of working against us right now in this environment is that the pricing has gotten crazy in terms of labor and materials. Those have shot way up in this market, in the Phoenix Metro market and in the Arizona market, cost around $135 a square foot to build out a dental space. Used to take four months.
20:41
now it's taking six to six and a half months, they actually get the exact same dental space open because as crazy as it sounds, and you think that with this downturn, everything's like slow, it could be going faster. It couldn't be hotter right now. The contractors are as busy as they can possibly possibly be. And so getting the subs to stay focused on a project is very difficult right now. So they're calling their numbers in terms of labor. And then the actual cost of the materials has gone.
21:10
on the way up. what do you say 2025 22 2000 square feet is your max? What what do you what are you seeing? Well, so it completely depends on the specialty if you've got an endo who can operate a pretty, pretty bump in practice on you know, three to four chairs, and doesn't need a lab.
21:35
then you can get into a smaller space. You'd be sub 2000 and they can still have a phenomenal career. The higher production offices, like if you wanna spin it off, eventually like build up a dental practice and then spin it off to corporate, which some people have that strategy, then they're gonna be looking for six to eight chairs minimum because they're thinking that they're gonna be able to do it better than the sole practitioner.
22:01
So in that case, think 2,500 square feet is the dental wheelhouse. Let me restate that. It's about 2,000 to 2,500 square feet depending on special feet. Pedo, you probably need a little bit more because you're going to have the quiet rooms and so on and so forth. Lab, sterile, you're have, obviously it's going to be open bay concept, but you want to have the parents come back so they can hang out with the kids and make sure that everything is going okay with those little guys.
22:29
But then you have the GP offices are usually between five to eight chairs. And I think we're getting those things done right on 2200 square feet, at least in this market. So things are taking longer, number one, right? And then also that option of expansion and without paying too much for the build out. And I already know the answer to this, but it's first right of refusal for the space next door.
22:59
or adjacent to you, that's gonna be a obvious thing that we wanna put in that lease, correct? Christian? Yes, and I think that not only that, you definitely wanna put that in the lease in terms of the expansion, because things are gonna pick up significantly later on down the road for a properly positioned, properly guided dental practice. You do wanna have that your lease if you can squeeze it in there for in the first right refusal and adjacent space.
23:25
The other thing that's very important is that you've got to begin with the end in mind. When you're talking to your architect, you have to talk to them and say, listen, I do plan on expanding it, I plan on expanding in the future. So please build this with the concept that I may take the space over next door and I don't want some weird growth on my practice in terms of size. You have to design it so that when that space comes available, I can jump on it and still have really good patient flow. So what that means is from a architectural standpoint in construction, it might mean that a trunk line
23:55
goes to an exterior or demising wall that allows you to not ruin your space or have to shut down your space, you could actually be working alongside that space as your construction is going for expansion. Am I correct? Just like we did with Dr. Forreston and Demi. He took over the space next door and he needed it sooner than he thought he was going to need it. we're glad that we pre-
24:23
designed that back in the day so that when he expanded into it, it was smooth, the patient flow still worked great. that was smart. Those people on that job project were really smart. Yeah. The other question I had- They were, who were they? I'm not sure. But here's another piece that I was thinking about. We were talking about how long these projects are taking to come to fruition.
24:52
And then how that relates to, you know, delayed lease payments and how a delayed lease starts in terms of the, you know, when you start paying your lease. That's a big piece that is important no matter what timeframe we're in. But when there's construction delays and access to product and construction materials, it's even more important. Tell us about how you're negotiating those waters today and how
25:22
and how our listeners should guide their real estate people if they're not choosing, if they choose to go against everything that we're saying, picking a real estate based healthcare provider, if they say I'm using my brother or my buddy and they give them a pearl to guide those waters, God darn it.
25:51
But I always tell my clients is like, yeah, you can use your your buddy who's an architect or does but doesn't know anything about dental and you can use your buddy who's a who's a commercial or residential broker doesn't know anything about commercial real estate, something that costs you about 150,000 bucks, you'll spend the rest of your career paying for that. But go ahead, it's completely up to you. But it does make conversations at Thanksgiving super awkward. No, you definitely need to have the right people in place in order to do it. The
26:23
Yeah, I don't know how else to say it. You gotta have the right folks who know what they're doing to help you on down the road. Yeah, and I mean, this standpoint, it's about, know, landlords are willing to work with the dentist. Yeah, this is not an adversarial situation all the time. It's how you approach that situation.
26:46
Well, they want you to be successful and going back to your question is, we try to get as much free rent as possible for it's not always possible, but a majority of the time we get free rent for them to do their build out, which is it used to be like I said, four months now, then it turned into five months. Now it's six months. So we build that in so that their rent doesn't even start. You don't want to be paying rent on a space you can't produce out of. And neither does the bank wants you to do that, to do that. So it's really tough on the pocketbook. So you want to make sure that once you open your doors for business, you haven't been paying rent during your build out.
27:14
like six months and you and you also want to be able to have some free rent once you open your doors for business so you can start collecting on your accounts receivables and so on and so forth and not have to deal with that. So you need a delay from the bank in terms of when you actually get your you have to start paying on your loan. The banks know that the good dental owners know that by the way, stick with the with the bigger ones because the smaller ones are have their project management in terms of the banks or end up being a dumpster fire because they don't understand dental. They don't know what needs to happen but you get that
27:44
you get that delay in the payment on the banking side, you get that delay in payment on the real estate side, you get your foundation underneath you as a dental provider, and then you never look back. But you definitely have to have that available. here's, and going back to your question too, very astute question is that during COVID, we need to also say that we can have a little bit more of a delay, and we've been doing this with our leases as well. If something comes up, they used to call it,
28:09
acts of God, but we can't be blaming God for what's going on is force majeure is what they call it now. If force majeure, i.e. some sort of weather thing that slows production or God forbid another virus comes through, got to have some sort of delay in place so that you're you're not burning time on something that you have no control over. love I love that. I love the force majeure clause. That's that's a that's a takeaway, John, for the folks that don't understand dental.
28:39
Couple things, back to the free rent discussion, I talk about these levers that you can pull with the landlord. Like there's some big levers that you pull, free rent, TI allowance, the base rent, you know, all of these things are levers, right? And I like to say, if you pull hard on two of them, the one's gonna go back up, right? Because the landlord's
29:09
It's got to be a win-win. You can't pull all three down. That's not going to happen. so... exchange. It's a fair exchange. And what's interesting, Christian and John, you guys have both been a part of so many deals. Each deal has its own nuances of what it needs. This guy might get 700 grand from the bank and have a ton of money in the checking account, right? Personal checking account.
29:36
So maybe we don't need TI allowances so that lever goes up, but then we pull these two levers really hard. Can you talk about some of these levers? Because it's, when I talk to my clients, it's like, no, dude, you don't get all of this. it's a lever, it's a lever system. So tell me more about these levers, Christian. What you're referring to is basically just, every deal is an economic balancing act. It's gotta be a win-win-win situation. gotta work for the dentist.
30:06
which is the tenant, it's got to work for the landlord and it's got to work for the bank. There's certain parameters we just have to work inside of. And I love that what you said is that the, if you have money set aside or if you get a little bit more from the bank, maybe focus that more on your build out and then just work on getting your, your, your base rent lowered and maybe get a little bit more free rent. like, like you said, I think it's really important for everybody to know out there. You can't have it all. We all know that.
30:35
We know that from childhood, you can't have everything. It's got to actually work for the landlord as well for them to maintain a nice little property. I don't let the landlords know that nor do throw that flavor out there because I'm going, we just represent one side of transaction, which is the doctors. But at the end of the day, we're educating our docs saying, hey, listen, we got to choose our battles and each one of them, like what's their hot buttons? Okay, so you want to keep your rates down or maybe you don't have as much TIs.
31:05
In that case, rent's going to go up a little bit because the landlord is going to be feeding in a little bit more in terms of in terms of the GIs, it's going to be reflected in the rent. So a good broker will be able to navigate that and tell you when there's nothing left on the table and leave no scraps behind. go ahead, Mike. Christian, here, us a little bit more on to your why. I see a lot of your stuff online. I see your videos. You guys
31:35
You guys spend a lot of time educating the market and just being that that authority. And I've always been impressed with your firm, what you and and your wonderful wife, Kimberly, do for for the firm. So, you know, give us a little bit of give us a little bit of, know, what what you guys can do for these docs and and and also maybe a little bit of why Colorado, why Arizona?
32:02
to really good markets. We have viewers all over the country and these two markets, Colorado and Arizona are hot. And why is that? And how can you help them? My why is just like I said, is my why is for the doctors. I wanted to find somebody I could take care of and watch out for. And I love my docs. you know, the Ogmandino.
32:29
You guys probably read the greatest salesman in the world. I love that book. Basically, the bottom line is that you just got to fall in love with the people that you're serving. Tony Robbins, we're big fans of Tony Robbins and what he's doing. We're actually platinum partners with that group. And it's all about finding people that you can just fall in love with, take care of them, continue to deliver more more value than anybody else, and just continue to...
32:56
to just help them as much as possible because I've seen so many crazy situations and it's sad when a doc gets locked into a 10 year lease with terms that suck. That's just the bottom line. And it's just, you know, it was done by somebody who was just there to take a fee and it's not about fees and it's never been about fees for us. And I think that's why our business is really mushrooming and because we actually do care about docs and it's our culture.
33:25
I won't have a broker on board. We've had to get rid of several that you get in there and they're just, they're just, it just commission breath, you know, they get out. That's not what we're about. The money will come if you take care of your people. As a commission breath, commission breath, baby. It breath. It's horrible. It's got some stank dude. Yeah. Well, you know, Christian, I think, I think that really personifies what
33:54
why you're doing so well, why you've always done really well now in your 18th year of doing this. And congratulations to that, to you and Kim. In my mind, this is what the industry needs. Someone that is putting the client first, not themselves. And you brought up a great thing there. You brought up a book and mentorship and different outlets of
34:23
vision quest, if you will. By the way, just because you're a real estate person or a consultant or an equipment salesperson, whatever it is, guess what? A dentist is a salesperson too. They have to build the same trust that we have to. And so these books that are mentioned by some of our, you know, our partners in this, pick those books up because they're really powerful tools.
34:49
And so I thank you for bringing that up, but more importantly, I thank you for being a friend, for being open and honest, and for doing right by the industry. And I love you to death. I love you guys too. You guys are awesome. And I'm super honored to be part of your programming. And just thank you. All right, buddy. Well done. We'll catch you on the flip side. Thanks, homies.
35:21
Check out Startup Unscripted on Facebook and YouTube. Click like, subscribe, and interact with Michael and John.
35:32
Thanks for listening. Tune in next week for another truth-filled episode of Startup Unscripted.