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Welcome to The Admin Avenues Podcast!
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Own Your Edge – Recognising and Communicating Your Professional Value with Megan Corfield
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[00:00:00]
Candice: Hello and welcome back to the Admin Avenues podcast. I'm your host, Candice Burningham, and today we have Megan [00:01:00] Corfield, who is one of our speakers at the Brisbane... Not just one of our speakers, the ending keynote speaker of our Brisbane conference next week on Monday, on the topic of Own Your Edge: Recognizing and Communicating Your Professional Value.
Now, Megan is a corporate and leadership strategist who helps organizations build commercially astute leaders capable of navigating complexity, uncertainty and rapid change. Drawing on more than 25 years in executive leadership and now - chairing boards, Megan knows what it takes to lead people through growth, disruption, and transformation, a phase that we are very much in at the moment.
Her executive career includes C-suite roles with ERM Power, Shell Energy, PwC, Director General of Tourism and the Gold Coast 2018 Commonwealth Games in Queensland. The list goes on. She's also the CEO of Brisbane Sustainability Agency, chair of boards, and also the CEO of Glass Ladder, which I will get you to explain, when we go through this.
So Megan, welcome to the [00:02:00] show
Megan: Thanks heaps, Candice
Candice: Thank you for joining us, and thank you for joining us at the conference. We cannot wait to hear your keynote, Own Your Edge. , So tell us a little bit about you. I've just read your bio, but tell us a bit about you. How did you come into this space?
Megan: well, I, you know, I'm a professional woman ~and like,~ as like most professional women, you know, you can get there. There is no glass ceiling, but the climb is often harder for women.
So that's hence it's how we came up with the term Glass Ladder. Uh, it's a harder time, uh, climb, sorry. It's not the ceiling.
And I think that, what really made me wanna go and found Glass Ladder and try and move the dial for women and get more women into leadership positions- is the, It's not just the stats at the top in Australia where there's a real imbalance, of females, it's the pipeline as well. And then as I started to, uh, dig into more of like what's going on, why are there not women in the pipeline that feed our top positions, it just was right, the whole, chain of females, [00:03:00] regardless of whatever position you're in in a corporation, right?
The same sort of issues are turning up. Like, women don't know their own value, uh, they or they don't value their value, or they don't know what they're worth or how to ask for their value. , Every woman I spoke to, was pretty much like, "Well, if I work hard enough, I'll be noticed." But working hard enough and being good at your job versus positioning yourself for the next job, they're two very different things.
And then for the women that wanted to get higher and higher and into executive positions, there was a huge gap around executive fluency. Like, not-- they didn't even know what sort of language they should be using, how to position themselves, , what skills that they truly needed to get there. So , a lot of women are in functional roles when you have a look at corporate Australia there's about, the P&L roles that are held in the top 300, just as an example, like 82% of those are held by men.
And so, the women in the functional roles don't [00:04:00] necessarily understand that they've got to be able to, talk strategy. They've gotta be able to set strategic direction. They've gotta be able to read the story and the numbers. They don't need to be an accountant, but they need to have a certain amount of commercial acumen.
Anyway, look, there was just all these patterns coming up, and I thought that somebody needs to get in here and disrupt this and break this cycle. And feedback that I was getting-- Like one woman actually said to me, "Oh, I just got married, and my boss said to me, 'It's not, not much point investing in you.
You'll just leave now to have kids.'" And I thought, "Oh my God, this stuff still happens. How crazy is this?" And when I look at all these women I coach then, and they come and tell me that, "This was said to me, I was asked to take the notes. I did this, no v- I picked up a coffee cup at the end of the meeting, and somebody said, 'Oh, thanks for cleaning up, Jane.'"
It's the same sort of systemic stuff that happened to me twenty-five years ago, and twenty-five years ago I didn't have anyone to talk to about it. I remember trying to reach out to [00:05:00] one really accomplished female actually, and she actually said to me-- And I said to her, "How do you balance everything?
Like, you know, I, I wanna have a family." And she actually said, "Megan, women like you and I weren't meant to be mothers." And I went, "Whoa, what a call." Like, you know, that is so not okay. And anyway, it's the same stuff, and the pace of change is so glacial. We've gotta change it, otherwise we're not gonna change what's going on for women.
Candice: I would agree with that. Like, I've worked for two very influential, , women. One is a very famous interior designer, and she's got a whole bunch of other businesses in the UK, Kelly Hoppen, and Deborah Turness, who, was recently the CEO of BBC News, but I worked for her when she was the president of NBC Universal News.
very Cool. That would've been really cool.
very cool. Both mothers, and never, ever, ever spoke like that. ~Never. They were ... ~I remember one newsreader came in and she was interviewing with Deborah, and she said, "Oh, you're not gonna wanna really talk with me 'cause I'm pregnant." And [00:06:00] she was like, "Why wouldn't I wanna talk with you?
You're perfect for this role. You're a, born, you know, star for the camera. You ... What, what? 'Cause you're having children?" Like, and I was just like, "Oh, thank gosh there's people like you in the world." Like, children wasn't a thing for me, and I never wanted it, and they were completely supportive of that too.
They were always like, "Good for you. You know what you want." Like, cool. That's ... You need to have different women with different abilities to help women with their choices as well, don't you think?
Megan: Absolutely. And there's... Look, there is a whole cohort of women who are reaching down to help the next sort of layer of women rise. , And unfortunately there's a couple that aren't. that still happens. That, that still exists in Australia, which is really, it's competitive,, and there's jealousy, and there's like, you know...
And I actually thought that you might grow out of it as you got into the board roles later in your career, but it just happens again . That's right. So, and there, you know,
Candice: perimenopausal [00:07:00] glaze.
Megan: that's it. But there's women who will say to you, "Oh, oh, you got a new board role. Oh." And they won't be f- before they even say congratulations, they'll say, "What recruiter rang you for that?"
Like, it's really, it's competitive even at this level. so you've just gotta focus on, you know, what you can control and what you wanna do to try and~ change the, change the,~ move the dial, and how, how we can help, like, advance women and just make it more balanced
Candice: Yeah. ~And your keynote will be helping attendees recognize their unique strengths and be able to help them articulate their contribution with confidence and build a~
~, ~so your keynote will be helping attendees recognize their unique strengths, articulate their contribution with confidence, and talking about building like a personal brand that reflects the strategic partner that they, most of them already are.
Some of them are building towards that. But I guess what inspired you, the idea behind Own Your Edge?
Megan: Yeah. So I think I met too many women that didn't, they were really good at talking about everybody else around them and, how great they were, and the people that they work for, particularly like, you know, the executives or CEOs that they support, they'd speak really [00:08:00] highly of them. But then you ask them about themselves and then it's either people don't know it or they feel really uncomfortable because they think it's self-promotion.
And it's not, self-promotion to let other people know your value. It's actually communicating your value so that they can use it. So it's two different things, and I think a lot of women, uh... And then, then finally they focus on their weaknesses. So, , you know, like I do all of this coaching with men and women, and~ it's really cra-~ it cracks me up.
I use the Gallup Strengths assessment tool, and when you coach a guy, they go straight to the top and go, "Oh yeah, I'm really good at this." And the women go straight to the bottom and go, "Oh, what am I not great at?" And I'm like, "It's not about that. You will get so much more return if you amplify your strengths."
Candice: Yeah. It's the Kanye West theory. Just go ahead and put your name in for the ballot to be the president of the United States just 'cause you're a man.
Megan: Yeah, well may- maybe, yeah, right. They all, they joke about our... Maybe it's testosterone. Wouldn't it be great to bottle[00:09:00]
Candice: I'd love to. Well, apparently I'm gonna put in a tube one day and put it on my arm to help me with my rage.
Megan: All right.
Candice: Ev- everyone on this podcast know I'm going, going through the perimenopausal rage. It's just like, oh my God. And, and you know, things like that, like our bodies change. We are changing, like everything about us.
So I used to be such a confident executive assistant, and looking back on it, yes, I probably did introduce myself as someone's executive assistant. I would put them first and put myself to the placement of them. Like, that's why you know me is 'cause I support them. Yes, I think that happens a lot, but I, don't think I...
It, it wasn't that I didn't value what I was doing, 'cause I loved my job. I loved being executive assistant. It's that I guess I didn't have the words to articulate it. I didn't have the language to articulate my value, and no one ever taught me either. No one was ever like, "Do you know your value? Do you know who are you if you're not so and so's executive assistant?"
" I'm an auntie. ~No, that's a, that's a,~ that's [00:10:00] a gift that your sisters gave you. No, what are you? Who are you? And I just did not have the words to articulate. Actually, I'm a quite an entrepreneurial thinker. I'm a bit of a rebel. I like to st- color outside the lines. I stand up for things I believe in.
Like, there's so much more to me than
Megan: And
Candice: was willing to own, I guess
Megan: Yeah, plus I haven't met you for long, right? But I imagine you are quite a strategic thinker, and you are an excellent communicator. You know, like, those things are obvious straight away. But it's the ability to reflect on what you're really great at, and then work it into a brand, and then use the words in the brand that you want to be known for.
and I think a lot of people go, "Oh, you know, well, I don't really need to manage my brand or m- manage my reputation." But look, everyone has a brand and a reputation, and if you're not managing it, someone else out there is giving you one. so it's that process of the step-by-step, what am I really great at?
What do I wanna be known [00:11:00] for? How do I use the language to get people to think that of me? and then how do I put it out to the world?
Candice: Yeah. So why do you think admins are so, I guess, so often underestimate their own value?
Megan: I don't know, maybe it's because they're so humble, or also because when, admins are doing a great job, right, there are no problems. So y- you are prioritizing, you're looking at things strategically, you're using judgment, and you're coordinating a whole heap of stuff so that nothing goes wrong.
And when nothing goes wrong, people don't value all the work that, goes in behind that because it's a bit like, oh, there's nothing to see there. So, ~you know, my,~ my whole career I've had the very best admin, in my team and I've absolutely loved and adored them, and they've become friends sort of thing.
Candice: out Roz.
Megan: yeah, actually Roz~ Roz is awe-~ is particularly awesome. Tessa was also awesome. I've had a couple of others too, like Julie, Kylie, But when I, [00:12:00] look at how hard they work and look at what made them good , and super valuable, and it was all about me in my head.
I was like, are, are they making me look good? Am I turning up prepared? Am I kicking goals here? Is the whole team kicking goals here? it's under the radar is probably what happens. but to underestimate the value of the strategic judgment that goes into things, like, I reckon my admin assistants knew the business almost as well as I did, and they had to know who needed time when people came and asked for time, , which external stakeholders they needed to form the relationships with.
they were the gatekeeper, not just to the diary, but to any old access. They needed to know, like Tess was so great. We got to the point where, you know, somebody would say, "I need to speak to X, Y, and Z about Megan." And she would say, "Well, Megan's gonna need this research done, this evidence.
She'll need to see the numbers behind X." and that meant that the, that it only needed one half an hour meeting instead of, , two one-hour meetings sort of thing to get that person on the right [00:13:00] track. she was incredible
Candice: Yeah. And I, I guess a, a terrible fault of ours is that we frequently describe highly complex work by saying, "I'm just doing my job," and sweeping the value under the carpet
Megan: Yeah. And look, that's not just an admin thing, that's a female thing too. And you think that being good at your job is easy and everyone can do it, and it's the same for when you think about your own personal strengths. You don't take a lens as to how unique they are. So, I'm just gonna give a quick shout-out.
Like, if you guys wanna go and have a look at what your own individual strengths are, there is a website called the Gallup Clifton StrengthsFinder. It's the best tool around. So I've done all these different, personality tests, psychometric tests, all that sort of stuff. This one, you pay $100 and you do the assessment online, and it will send you your results, and it...
Your results are one in 33 million So it actually is telling you what you are [00:14:00] unique at, and then it's everyone's report. Like you and I might have strategy,, in our top five strengths, but mine will be different and how it's just explained to me will be different to how yours is explained because of all the algorithms behind how the rest of your results balanced out.
And it pretty much says to you, are you great at doing your job? You're an executor. Are you great at getting people to follow you? You're an influencer. Are you great at, forming the path, analyzing the data? You're a strategic thinker. And are you great with people? You're a relationship builder., And to understand that stuff is really terrific, and if anybody does it, then, and it comes back, I always tell people, sit down with a highlighter, go through the report, and have a look at what the-- at the words that really resonate with you, that you think about yourself like that, and that helps you then create a brand.
And when you're thinking about the brand that you wanna be known for, you wanna be distilling it down and down and down into three words., [00:15:00] And a lot of people will throw values into that too. Like a lot of people wanna be known as kind or warm or, , caring or empathetic, whatever. You can put those in.
Mine are strategic, team, and real, and every room that I walk into, I think that through my head and go, "How am I showing up? I'm gonna be strategic, I'm gonna keep it real, and it's all about the people, it's all about the team." ~And so~ and then if I am in a new room, , like had a bit of a situation about a few years ago where I started on a new board and one of the, male, , directors and I didn't get on s- quite so well at the start.
And he went pretty hard at me. He was complaining that I hadn't done the induction, I hadn't-- I was asking too many questions, like, you know, a range of things. And I really needed to change my brand in that whole room and just get people thinking of me differently. And I got some brilliant advice, from a very accomplished female, , board chair [00:16:00] who said to me, "Use the language that you want them to think about you."
So I started to turn up and say, "Putting a strategic lens over this issue-" Or the people impact is always really important to me. Let's talk about how the team's affected. you know, I would constantly use the language. Took me about six months, but I finally got my brand,, turned around. , And this guy had a lot more respect for me.
It changed the dynamic in how I was working with him, and, it just really lifted. And I actually got feedback. Like, this is three years ago, right? But I got feedback recently from a recruiter who rang me just to talk about a different board role, who said to me, "I've heard that you're quite strategic and a great people leader."
And I went, "Bang, that's what I want. That's what I want people to be saying about me in a room." So, and I've influenced that. So and it doesn't matter what level of the organization you're in, right? You need to know what you're good at. and another way to do that, if you don't wanna do the Gallops thing, is to try and notice [00:17:00] the patterns.
Like, Candace, do you sit in a room with people and think, "Why are we still talking about this? I can see the
Candice: I said like that a family, family conversations.
Megan: so and this is why I think that you would probably have strategic in your top five, right? Because your brain, when you've got, uh, you're quite wide strategically, you can go bang, bang, bang, bang through all of the information and g- and see the path or the outcome that you need to get to really fast.
and has anyone ever said to you in your career, "You need to slow down and take people on the journey"?
Candice: Yes
Megan: Yeah, okay. So that is your biggest blind spot, too, because you're so fast that everybody else is sitting back at the start going, "She's a maverick. She couldn't have possibly thought of everything. You know, Candace can't...
That can't be right. She couldn't have got there too quickly." And meanwhile, you're going, "Why are we still talking about this? This is a half an hour of my time that I would love back." Yeah, so, knowing, like recognizing some patterns, , that, that are constantly [00:18:00] happening ~is another ~or getting feedback from different people.
Like, just even emailing people and say-- like ~peop-~ people you trust, ~um,~ and say, "If you had to pick three words that you would associate with my brand, what are they?" And then you can pull all that information together, you know. Go, go and get Claude or ChatGPT to help you. And, um, but the three words are what you need to own and continuously keep putting out there
Candice: Yeah. Now I'm gonna, uh, veer you off your thinking at the moment, but is your dog sleeping next to you?
Megan: Yeah.
Candice: I can hear him.
Megan: Can you, can you hear his snoring?
Candice: And I love it. It just makes me... It... But I've got Millie next to me as well, and I love it. It just makes me, it makes my heart smile. It makes the... Like, uh, as you're saying this, I'm thinking, yes, people see me as such an alpha and such a red personality, and now, now, now, now, yet this blue side of me hears a dog snoring in the background, it lights me up.
I'm like, "Oh, there's a little pooch there." Like,
Megan: So he's, [00:19:00] he is
Candice: Yes, good. That's what we want. That, that, that makes me happy.
Megan: so Charlie is a corgi, and he's six years old. He's a COVID corgi,~ and, uh, uh, he was a, like a savior for our family.~
~2020 was awful for us, like the family broke up. Um, the dad sort of disappeared on my two kids, and, uh, Charlie was... ~has just been the absolute best decision we ever made, and the first dog I've ever had.
Never had a dog before. He's cool as.
Candice: the best.
Megan: He's, he's just amazing, except he's a loud snorer.
Candice: I love it. Okay, I'll pull you back. So, um, okay, so many admins explain their roles by listing their responsibilities. You know, I'm really good at calendar management, or I'm really good at projecting travel or when we need to do events, and I'm great at managing the inbox.
You know, how do we get them to shift from describing what they do
Megan: Mm.
Candice: and, like, communicate more of the impact that they're making?
Megan: Yeah. And so first you're gonna be aware of the impact, but every- you always wanna be talking in impact. So, um, you know, at the end of the day, a task is a task, but it- the [00:20:00] impact is where you add value for the business. So, like, if, if that was me, if I was in a room trying to explain what I did and I was, um, an admin, I would actually say, "I work really closely with the executives that lead our company, and I use, um, my judgment to make sure they're spending their time where we're going to create the most value."
Candice: Yeah
Megan: I just, I just made that up on the spot. I'm not sure if
Candice: Yes, ~but that's ex- that's...~ It is. We have a horrible habit of saying tasks as value. And, uh, one of the speakers ~who y-~ who you'll meet there, Rachel Binetti, is talking through that, ~um,~ talking about how you need to talk about your impact. And I guess it's that shift of change of language. For the longest time, admins were told, you know, k- I guess like children, you know, "Be, be seen, not heard," and, "Just get things done and, and with as little impact as possible."
Like, and now it's like absolutely not. We're flipping the script and being like, "You absolutely need to turn around and show your value now. You absolutely need to talk about what you're [00:21:00] doing. ~You..."~ And it, it's hard, especially for the old ducks like me that have been in there for over 20 years. It's very hard to change that perception of speaking loudly on value, especially an Australian woman with po- tall poppy syndrome.
Like, it's hard to say your wins without feeling like a bit of a dick.
Megan: It is, but if, if you don't talk about the value you add, nobody will know about that value to be able to use it. You know, I'm, I'm a big believer in that. , And you know, other impact-oriented stuff, like admin people, they manage strategic relationships,
Candice: Yes
Megan: man. Like, um, I think about the doors that I got open just 'cause Tess managed the relationship at the other end.
~Um, and,~ and Ros does that now, actually. She's brilliant at it. ~Um, you know, they,~ they prioritize work. coordinate teams. They drive engagement. There's a whole heap of... Like, think of differently about what was better because you're at the table, you know? , If somebody helped me organize an event, as an [00:22:00] example, like just the seamless delivery of an event that engaged 160 stakeholders that created new opportunities for the business to talk about X.
You know, that's the impact of, of... Versus I ran an event. Like, it's, it's trying to take it all the way down. Like, why is the business better and why was it better 'cause you're involved? Yeah.
Candice: Yes. And taking like the things like network, like people take for granted their network. Like the amount of times I networked, I went to an EA event and made contacts at different companies that then provided value for my executives or companies. Like I remember when I worked in executive, , investment banking, they, they were trying to get a meeting with this particular client and could not get it through the door.
Well, I met the EA at a function, and we had a right old time, and I said to her, "Hey, I think my team's trying to get in touch with your team. Can we make it happen?" She was like, "Yeah, let's do it now." And we literally booked a meeting that night on our phones, our BlackBerrys back then, a- and made it happen, and they got a deal out of it.
[00:23:00] Like I... You don't realize that was your value add,
Megan: Yeah
Candice: was a way of you being able to do that. And y- yes, that was taken for granted as well on, on, on the business side as well, being like, "Oh, great, we've got it from here." Actually, you wouldn't have had it from here if it wasn't for me going to these networking events and creating this network and getting meetings across the line.
So I think~ there's, there's...~ It's not always a visible value. It's, you've gotta start looking at what you've done, what you have achieved, the small wins instead of always the big wins.
Megan: Yeah, plus you have to be ready to take a bit of credit in the room too, right? Like, um, it was great to be part of the team that got this over the
Candice: thing for women.
Megan: Yeah. Yeah. Or ~like, you know,~ I am so pleased, that, you know, the other EA and I, who, let's say her name was Mary, so pleased that Mary and I, , could get you guys together.
What a great impact for the business. Like we've gotta-- you sort of gotta claim, your credit [00:24:00] sometimes, because you will continuously be overlooked if you're not sure how to bring it up without sounding like a knob. ~Uh, you know? And, ~and you've gotta practice that. That is seriously like-- And you've gotta have lines in your kit bag, that you can bring out.
Like, you know, uh, you know, whenever you're in a room and a bloke steals your idea?
Candice: Yes
Megan: Like that, that happens all the time, right? and it happens at every level, ~every, every, you know,~ from, the grad right through to the chair of the board. It still happens to women a lot. ~And, um, ~so I say now, ~um,~ "That's a really good point, Mike, and it's very similar to what I just said, um, a couple of minutes ago, so it sounds like we're aligned and on the same page.
That's terrific."
Candice: Perfect.
Megan: ~And then I~
Candice: ~Very~
Megan: and then sometimes the penny doesn't drop, but most of the time it does, and I just think... And then he goes, "Well, what do you mean, you know, that you said a couple of minutes ago?" And I go, "Well, well, when we were talking about X, Y, and Z." And then, you know, you can nicely look like you're still a team player, but you're not going to have your ideas pinched at the table.
So yeah, that [00:25:00] happens a lot still. Mm.
Candice: Uh, I, we had a, um, panel at the Sydney conference recently where one of the panelists was saying that she put her ... She said to Copilot, "Go through all my emails, go through all my meeting requests, go through all my notes, and pull out what I've done this year, the work that I've done, the connections I've made, things like that."
And she was floored with the amount of work she hadn't put into account, of the work that she had done, and that she was just like, uh, like, "I forgot about that," or, "Yes, I did do that," or ... And it would say, "It looks like you were the reason that this came together. It looks like you contacted this person."
Like, and she's just like, "This is amazing." Like, it was able to pull out all this stuff that she didn't see value on that she could then use for her self-assessment, and also, like, her, her end of year assessment, but also her self-assessment. Like, I'm a true believer that you should do a self-assessment every year looking at what you've done, [00:26:00] what you can do better at, what are you gonna invest in next year.
Like, I put up a post over the weekend about a job ad on the Gold Coast, and it says, "I want an EA that has the AI capabilities that can show what they've done with AI and building agents." And the amount of people that are not across this in my industry, in the admin industry, is mind-blowing. And it's like we don't need to say anymore it's coming, it's there.
This is a live ad on SEEK right now.
Megan: Absolutely.
Candice: So we need to be doing that
Megan: And it's not hard, to be honest. Like,~ Like, um, it, it's,~ it's about finding the time where you can sit down and create an agent and give it the guardrails that you wanna give it. Like even I've done it, and I consider myself a bit of a digital dinosaur. Um, but to be able to do that, I've done it for the business, and I've done it also for my coaching, where I've got an agent that can come in and have a look at all the notes, , that I've taken on a,, electronic notepad, and then it'll come up with [00:27:00] what that person needs to be focusing on.
It'll go and take it over to HeyGen. HeyGen's got a digital twin of me that creates a little video with that content that goes into the hub, to the CRM and gets sent back to the coachee, couple of weeks after we've met and said, "Hey, don't forget, you're supposed to be looking at X, Y, and Z. Have you managed to practice that yet?"
Or, "How are you doing with X, , P, Q, and Y?" sort of thing. So they are pretty easy to build, , believe it or not, which is a bit scary too. Hey, Candice, can I just bring you back to the networking comment that you made? , Because I think a lot of women generally, , don't-- aren't very strategic about their network, and they don't sit down and go,
Like you, you just talked about, you know, you go to functions, you meet people, and that's a network for you. But then putting another layer over it strategically to say, "Well, who do I really need to have a relationship with or get to know?" Making a-an opportunity for that door to be open and make a connection.
Once I've made the connection, how do I keep that alive? How do I [00:28:00] sort of pay it forward and create value for them? And how do I, touch base, you know, every three months or so to make sure that I'm constantly on someone's radar so that when I might need the network for something, uh, you know, I've got a few brownie points ahead of the game, and I've got the relationships where I can call it in.
But I actually encourage people to sit down and write it out and make it, ~um, you know, ~make a table so that you are keeping yourself accountable every three months. Yeah. And I, I...
Candice: a big believer in that, and I send follow-up emails from the conference. Like, they think the conference is a one-and-done day. No, my friend, I'm in your face for a while. because
Megan: in a good
Candice: do attend... Yes. They do these events, and then they, they, they've got the work. They're s- they're engaged, they're this, they've got the, they've got the list of what they need to do, but then they just don't do it.
And so I keep following them up, being like, "What have you done? Have you tried to build an agent? Have you tried to do this?" H- Just keeping them accountable, and that's [00:29:00] also my reason to keep in contact with them. So they then also come back to me and go, "I did it. I built my first agent. It's really terrible, but I've done one."
And having reason to be able to pick up on conversations throughout the year is something that I value so much, and I genuinely love when people tell me that they have been able to do something from something that I facilitated for them to learn and develop from. So, ~uh, you know, uh, ~my network might be, ~you know, uh, ~uh, yes, I have a h- a high number of, LinkedIn connections and whatnot, but as to actually connecting when with people, I fly around the...
Like, I, I actually need to do a report on how much I flew this year and plant some trees. you know, I flew around the country that many times this year connecting with people, finding out what's important so that I could curate this conference and make sure that it was perfect for what admins needed, and I feel like I nailed it.
I feel like people are gonna come away from this event and be like, "That was what I needed. That was the information, but also the kick up the bum that I needed at the moment."
Megan: Yeah, which is... And that's awesome, [00:30:00] isn't it? The feeling of when you move the dial for people. That's great.
Candice: big part of that is meeting people at those events and building your network at that, those kind of events
Megan: Absolutely. And, and don't-- And as you said, don't underestimate that it is a network and get strategic about it. You also made a comment before about people sitting down once a year and doing a self-assessment. , Now there is-- and I'm just c-coming back to Gallups for a moment. There's a profile in Gallups, and nearly every, driven or successful woman I've come across has this as in their top 10 strengths.
It's called Achiever, and I imagine a lot of, , your admin listeners would probably really resonate with this. It's when you know that you love an outcome, and you'll go really hard, and usually you are naturally gifted with a higher capacity to go hard, so you work harder. And a bit of a sign for you is if you start to judge other people and you think that they're not working hard enough, um, that's usually a bit of a sign that you're an achiever.
And [00:31:00] you absolutely love outcomes. So you need to sit down more often than once a year if you are an achiever and you wanna see outcomes and remind yourself, um, as to what you're good at. 'Cause what they do is they set the bar, and they go hard, and they reach the bar, and they don't stop and celebrate.
They just lift the bar, lift the bar, lift the bar. Um, and a lot of-- Yeah, absolutely right. A lot of women do this, and, um, I think this is also the pattern of how much achiever turns up in all of the women that I coach who are professionally successful in, in whatever they've chosen to do, Look, it's there in 95% of them, and I think it's because women are prepared. When they have achiever, they're prepared to go really hard. They've got this huge capacity where they can go really hard. They're focused on outcomes. They keep driving themselves hard. Obviously the blind spot there is burnout, uh, 'cause you can go too much, ~and, um, ~but also they've gotta keep-- y- you've [00:32:00] gotta find a way, personally, to stop and celebrate what you've achieved and what you're good at because it reminds you of your strengths ~and, um,~ and it feeds your soul.
Like, as soon as you can feed your strengths too, it creates so much energy for you. Like, you know you have those days and you, you've come home after a day and you're doing fist pumps and you go, "That was such a great day." And then other days you come home and go, "Oh my God, I so need wine," you know? Like, "I'm, I'm so drained."
So it's, and it's the difference between whether you got to use your strengths or whether you didn't get to use your strengths and you had to try and go somewhere else, and,~ um, and,~ do some different stuff that isn't naturally great for you. So the more you lean into what you're good at, know what you're good at, lean into what you're good at, it's actually, a bit self-perpetuating.
It really energizes you. And achievers need to somehow... I, I have a little book of awesomeness where I write stuff down, that, uh, I'm really proud of. It al- that also helps with your inner critic. 'Cause when the inner critic turns [00:33:00] up, the little book of awesomeness helps shut that up too
Candice: Yeah. it's all well and dandy that you and I are talking about this because we're quite confident women and we know what we're doing. We've started businesses. What about the people who have the self-doubt confidence issues? Like, your keynote also explores overcoming self-doubt without losing the desire to keep growing.
~Could you,~ can you talk us through that, that side of it?
Megan: Yeah, look, I still have self-doubt. I think that everyone has an element of self-doubt, right? And,~ and s- there's, ~there's a level of self-doubt that is needed to keep growing. So it's not like you wanna go, "Oh, I never wanna doubt myself." That's rubbish. You always... That, it's the dip. It's how big the dip in doubt is.
Like, ~if you're, ~if you're growing and you have a bit of a dip in self-doubt, that's 'cause you're learning something new. Then you'll grow again, and you'll have a bit of a dip. It's when you have really big swings, like a rollercoaster, where you are saying to yourself, "I'm not good enough," or, ~"They're going to,~ they're going to see my bluff soon.
They'll find me [00:34:00] out soon," right? So the first thing is, like we all know that sort of stuff goes on in our heads sometimes, and when you're tired or, ~um, you know, ~whatever state your health is in, it can compound. It can get worse at some times than others.
So the first thing I, I try and say to people is understand how your imposter might be turning up for you.
So, there's almost, like, five different personas, that they take. If you're the perfectionist, you know, and you don't wanna release anything until it's absolutely 150%. ~Uh, some people are the soloist, where they just never wanna ask for help 'cause they think they'll be found out that they can't do something.~
~Some people, don't say anything. They sit in a room and go, "I have to be the expert before I open my mouth and contribute."~
~Have I lost you? Candace, are you there?~
Candice: ~just, just dropped out for a sec. You~
Megan: ~Yeah. Yep. It i-- yeah.~
Candice: ~Picking up from some people are the soloists~
Megan: ~Yeah. Okay. So some people are the soloist where they don't want to ask for help 'cause they think that that's a sign that they're-- people will know they're not good enough at their job.~
~Uh, there's people who are the superhero who just do-- If they think, "If I look really, really busy and I'm doing lots and lots of stuff, then nobody will question my worth." , There's people who are the, um, expert, and they think that, "I need to know everything before I make a contribution." So they sit there and they say nothing~
~okay.~ So sometimes it turns up as the soloist where people are like, they never want to ask for help 'cause they think that'll be a giveaway that they don't know what they're doing. ~Um,~ some people, it's a superhero where they go, "Oh, I need to be really busy and I need to look really busy.
~Uh, ~otherwise people will think that I'm not adding value." There's ~a, um,~ an expert where people will sit at the table and think, "I'm not going to say anything because I don't know absolutely everything about this topic," and then they don't contribute, and then they don't add any value at all. [00:35:00] Or there's actually one that's called the natural genius, where people question whether they're smart at all, and they will have got this dialogue in their head which is saying, "You're not smart.
People are gonna find you out. You're not clever." So the first tip is working out how is it turning up for you?
Like, are you falling into one of those personas or even a couple of those personas, and then trying to catch yourself when it happens. Now, when it does start to happen, the most effective thing that I have found anyway, and I'm not a psychologist, but is in real practical terms, is to ask yourself, is this fact or is it feeling?
Because we all feel like it sometimes, but you've got to go back to the facts.
Like, what's the feedback around this? What actually happened from this? What are the outcomes? What are the inputs? And that's why that little book of awesomeness is so good because you'll have a feeling one day where you go, "I'm just not good enough."
And then if you go back and you can flip through where [00:36:00] people have told you that you are, where you've got results or you've won an award or whatever's happened where you are, those facts actually help you reframe the dialogue. Another thing that, that does work for some women, , is they actually name their inner critic.
And so I've got one, , I've got a couple of, uh, women that I coach who have done this. So one's called a Brenda, one's called a Wanda, like crazy names, right? And then they can feel the inner critic come in and the voice in their head start, and they pretty much turn around and say, "Fuck off, Wanda." And then...
And, and it stops it. And they... So they've named the inner critic, and then they've told them to get lost. So, , yeah, that, that works for some women too. But you've got to work out what's going on for you at the start. ~Um, and, ~and other people say that you can often look back and there's like one point , in your upbringing that something got said to you that made you start to question yourself.
, I don't know if that's true or not, but, like I look back and I went... I had an exam, in grade 11, [00:37:00] and I remember my, both of my parents... I got ninety-eight out of a hundred, and both of my parents said to me, "What happened to the other two?" And I remember thinking, "Oh my God, everything has to be perfect."
And so I did, I fell into that perfectionism chasm for a long time before I realized this is not serving myself well, and I don't-- I'm going to be just as effective if I go back to the eighty/twenty rule.
Candice: Yeah.
Megan: And I've got the greatest parents in the world, right? They, they would have, they would die if they heard me say that.
But,
Candice: they probably didn't realize it. They probably thought that was encouraging back then. Like,
Megan: Yeah,
Candice: God, my, my parents were like, "She turned up to school today. Happy days."
Megan: Yeah, well I, I've I've been there as a parent myself, to be honest. Yeah.
Candice: I was that kid that, you know, that was told, "You talk too much," you this, you that. Uh, am I probably, undiagnosed ADHD? Probably. We have two that are definitely diagnosed. They were the lab rats that had to have ~the pra-~ the brain scanning and everything with Ritalin. [00:38:00] Do I think that's probably in me?
Maybe, but I have been able to channel it into something that I'm really good at., I can hyperfocus. I can do things with it that I probably wouldn't have been able to do if I didn't have that
Megan: Yeah, which is great, right? But it starts with awareness. Like, whatever's going on for you, just be aware of it. How's it showing up? Like, and you know, you've got gifts that you channel, that you just talked about, which is awesome
Candice: Yep. Yep. I think, , one of the issues that people have is positioning themselves for what's next, Do you think that failing to articulate your contribution affects salaries and recognition and y- your ability to progress?
Megan: Yeah, absolutely. Because I think that, if people aren't aware of your value, then how are they going to be aware of how you might fit another opportunity, ~you know? And,~ and people talk about sponsors and mentors and that sort of stuff. It's really great, but it's not going to help you unless you are articulating the impact that you [00:39:00] have, which is part of the brand that you bring.
, And you do it in a way... and look, the reality is you have to get comfortable with this. People go, "Oh, it's just self-promotion." And I'll say it again, it's about making people aware of your value so that they know how to use it. So you've got to reframe it in your mind and y- and y- and you gotta practice how you're gonna deliver it, right?
You don't wanna walk in there and look like arrogant Little Miss. , You wanna be able to say, "Hey, I just wanna make you aware of this because we've got this big project coming up, and I think I could add a bit of value to that." Like, it's... That doesn't... That sounds fine. If somebody said that to you, you'd be fine with it.
Candice: Yep, absolutely
Megan: yeah. But it also, like, reputations are everything, and if people think you're good to work with, you deliver, you're quality, you've got skills that they need, yeah, reliable, trustworthy, huge one, right? Admins. Um, yeah. Like, you know, they need to know that about you. And, like, I've [00:40:00] even had a situation in my career where I really needed to change a brand, and it was when I was a director general and some falsities had been told to the premier.
So it was big stakes, and I had to change my brand with the premier, and I wasn't gonna be able to do that directly. So I actually got the help of some third parties and said, "Hey, when you meet with the premier next, can you just mention, uh, that I've added value with boom, boom, boom?" I was really direct about the ask, but I had that relationship with them in my network that they were super happy to do it.
And, you know, I got that brand turned around in two weeks, which, to be honest, ~um, you know,~ saved my bacon. ~Uh,~ and I managed to shut down the rubbish that was being said about me elsewhere. So third parties are also really great if you can get a couple who, ~um, ~will have influence
Candice: Yeah. And it, it's, it's uncomfortable doing that. Like, I, I am constantly told, "Go and ask for testimonials after your events. Go and ask for testimonials for your LinkedIn." [00:41:00] It's uncomfortable to ask that. But sometimes I will, and I'll be like, "Can I do it for you as well?" I had a fantastic woman help me with the event in Adelaide, and I just said to her, "C- do you have a Google review?
Do you have something that I can share the wor- so the word of how valuable you were to me at my event?" And she was just like, "Oh gosh, yeah. Oh yeah, if you wouldn't mind." Like, but we are, we're just so bad at doing things like that when it's just such a simple ask that can have quite a big effect
Megan: Absolutely. And we should be doing it for other people without even thinking about it, you know? Like, if you think someone's good, put it on LinkedIn that you thought they were good. If you think, that somebody gave you a lot of value, , like publicly thank them for it. , Or if you're in a room and someone says, "Hey, what do you think of Candace?"
, Be the person that says, uh, "She's got the fantastic entrepreneurial mind. She's moving the dial for admins. Straight talker, lots of experience, knows what she's [00:42:00] doing." You know, that's... You just have to be really, generous and pay it forward a bit, and it will come back at you. I'm a big believer in that
Candice: Such a huge believer of that. Such a huge believer of that. All right, so you are closing the Admin Avenues Brisbane Conference after a full day of professional development, and some bloody honest conversations are gonna be had throughout the day. So what do you hope attendees will understand about themselves when they leave your session?
Megan: Oh, I hope that they walk out and they have a glimmer of, , what they're truly great at, and they've started the process of thinking through, what are my unique strengths? What should I be putting together in my brand? Why does it mean that I'm awesome at what I do, and how do I put it out there to the world without feeling like a dill about it?
Like, like if, if they can even have the start of that journey, then I'll be doing the fist pumps on the way
Candice: Love that. And without giving too much away about the keynote, what can [00:43:00] attendees expect from Own Your Edge?
Megan: , Well pretty much that sequence actually. I wanna be walking them through, how do you know and understand your, your strengths, why it's important to really lean in and focus on them, how to convert that into a brand for yourself, and then how to put that brand out to the world, in the way that you're comfortable with.
As well as then when you have the self-doubt stuff coming in, what are some very practical ways that you can get on top of that?
Candice: And if it's a long day, if, uh, if they only remember one message from your session, what would that be?
Megan: Stop thinking about your weaknesses. Lean into your strengths. If you amplify your strengths, you'll get way more of a return on your energy and on your career
Candice: Yep. It's so true. Why do we lean to the negative instead of the positive?~ It, it, ~it's a brain rewiring exercise we all need to go through
Megan: It, it absolutely is. It's a huge reframe. And, um, but once you've done it, like I really, you know, I've, I've sort of done it [00:44:00] across my career, but it was only 10 years ago that I really sat down and did it in earnest, took myself to a beach at Straddie,~ uh,~ and worked out what is really going on, what am I really good at, what gives me energy, and I have not looked back from that.
It's been such a game changer for me
Candice: Yep. It's so true. Like, and this conversation is the reminder of the greatest professional strengths we have might be hiding in plain sight. Like, uh, even I'm like, "Well, what am I good at? What do I want to do?" I get a buzz of being around that many people at a conference. I get excited of seeing people's aha moments.
Like,, I often walk around and I'm taking photos or taking videos, and I'm watching people literally just go, "Oh my God, yes, that clicks with me," or, "Yes, I can do that," or it is something that literally lights me up that I wasn't aware of, is that I'm like, it gives me a buzz seeing other people come into their own and their own messaging and their...
And particularly, as you say, if they post about it, [00:45:00] it just makes me so happy to be able to be like, "Yes, I hit someone. I re- I've reached someone right in the, in the good feels of where they feel like they've, they can achieve more, they can do more." That if I got one person, I'm happy. , But yeah, it, that, that, that's one of those things that I need to look at as a, a skill that I have hiding in plain sight, is I have that ability to do that to people
Megan: And, and in Gallups, there's a strength called developer, Candace, which is how much you love to see other people grow and how much you will put yourself out to invest in seeing other people grow. And it's just, it's a, it's a beautiful trait.
Candice: Now,
Megan: leadership trait
Candice: well, I am so excited to be seeing your keynote. , We are... Well, we'd be getting close to when you're coming in and doing it this time next week. Uh, although this will go live on Friday, so people will have the weekend to listen to it before they lock in. But, , really excited for you to be closing the ke- [00:46:00] uh, with your keynote, Own Your Edge, at the Up and Avenues Brisbane conference on Monday.
Megan, thank you so much for joining me today. I can't wait to see you in Brisbane. I can't wait to see your session, and we're going to put the, in the show notes how you can connect with Megan, how you can learn more about GlassLadder, and about the Gallup CliftonStrengths. We'll put that in there as well for people that are curious to hear more about that.
, And yeah, just really looking forward to, to actually meeting you in person.
Megan: excited, Candace, and I'm, I've, um, I've designed something that's quite high energy too, so that, uh, it's the end of the day, right? We've gotta get people over the line. Yeah.
Candice: Awesome. Well, thanks again, Megan. Thank you all, everyone, for~ j- uh,~ joining us today, and we shall see you in our next episode
Megan: Awesome. [00:47:00]