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Get a seat at the table and build the design career you want. This podcast is for designers looking to break in, level up, and take control of their careers—whether you're freelancing, climbing the corporate ladder, or just trying to get noticed. Every two weeks, we dive into career fundamentals, design best practices, and the hottest topics in the design community.
I set aside 50%. It's on the high side, but I'd rather have something left over at the end of the year instead of having to pay extra because I didn't set aside enough, you know. From the 50% that remains, I put it all, you know, to the side in a savings account and once a month, I pay myself a salary from the savings account. So and regardless of what comes in, you know. So and when you have a good month, which hopefully, you you do most of the time, that salary buffer.
Nick:And you're officially live. We're officially live. Exactly. I mean, this is just an experiment.
Tyler:Alright. So Nick, we've we've learned a lot about your your story and that you're a freelancer, but I want and then all about kind of like your design methodology, what you like to do, what you don't like to do. But I think for someone jumping into freelance, I think what's important for them is to understand the business side of freelance. So outside of the kind of pixel pushing the the strategy part, like how to keep the lights on, like things like getting new business, accounting, inbound, outbound, all all of the things. I think it'd be a really good subject for us to dive into this episode.
Nick:Yeah. I I agree. I it's it's there's so much more going on behind the look at this redesign I made. You know? There's there's all business behind it, obviously.
Nick:So, yeah, I mean, where do you want to start?
Tyler:So I guess I guess we'll maybe frame this. For someone who's new and then wants to kind of who's thinking about, like, maybe they're starting out, maybe they're in house, they wanna transition to freelance, what are the what should someone be first thinking about when kind of diving in? What what is what should they be thinking about? Should it be getting clients, setting up some some infrastructure? What what what is the first thing they should be doing?
Nick:I think it should be able for people should be able to find you online. I I think that's really key. Like, that's really the starting point. So this this, you know, hypothetical person, you you mentioned that they probably have a a LinkedIn account and the website. They probably have if you say they currently are in house, they probably have an an employee's website.
Nick:You know? Like, I'm currently working here, and I'm doing this, but there's probably nothing about things they offer on the website. So that's what that's the first thing I did is I had one of those hello, I'm Nick. I'm a designer hero sections, you know, the ones you really like, the hello, I am, you know, the you know the one. So the first thing I did was to to add between brackets freelance to it.
Nick:So I'm Nick. I am a brackets freelance product designer. So I was in between. So I had my job, but I also wanted to do something extra in the evenings and in the weekends just to see if I if I could do it, if I would enjoy it. So that was the the very careful, like like, toe in the water type situation I I did.
Tyler:Is there a imagine, like, if you're, yeah, if you're going from in house to freelance, there's a I guess you don't wanna head for it in. You're gonna test it out first. But in there, there's a there's a work life balance you're probably not being careful of. You're probably, like, to do jump in, you'd probably wanna do both till potentially maybe the revenue you're generating for freelance is at par, if not greater. Yeah.
Nick:Yeah. I I I've seen someone who who always shares that it's, like, 60%. If you if your freelance business makes 60% of your, you know, latest salary, I think that's probably the the the jump point. But depending on how much risk you can handle and the number of responsibilities you have, might as well be 100 or even more percent before you feel comfortable to make that jump. I started when I didn't have children, so I had way more time.
Nick:Like in the evenings, I was just at home more or going places with my wife and then going to a movie or having a social like someone in their twenties, that type of social life. So it was easy during the week for me to do something extra in the evenings. One thing I just thought of for the website, like, the the freelance between brackets is like that in addition to it. I also started to mention the things I could do for you as a business owner instead of just telling you know, mentioning the things you might find in a job opening. So in a job opening, you see things like needs three years of experience with Figma.
Nick:So then I would have on my portfolio website, I would have, you know, can do Figma. But when I wanted to go into freelance, I changed it to I can improve your revenue by improving your website. Mhmm. And I might use Figma to do it, but, you know, you don't care as a business owner. So it's it's it's a of reframing.
Nick:You know, the the focus group is different. I'm not no longer focusing on hiring managers, but more on business owners.
Tyler:Interesting. And are you, like, the topic of, like, should you niche down? Should you go wide? Like, what is your like, jumping off that, like, what do you offer? Like, how important is, like, niching down part of, like, that initial strategy?
Nick:In the beginning, I went very wide. I would basically say yes to anything. Like anyone in my network or anyone reaching out to me, like, hey, can you do Webflow? I was like, yeah, of course I can do Webflow. But at that moment, I never I never did anything with Webflow.
Nick:I just learned it like on the spot. Because I was like, well, it's probably similar to WordPress, you know. It's it it has CMS, and and it's it's a visual builder, and I was a bit slow in the beginning. But, you know, within a week, was like, oh, you know, I get it. And then also, like, last episode, newsletters, I was like, yeah, sure.
Nick:Of course, I can design it. Because I know it's code and I kinda do a bit of coding and but then I found out, well, design is really tough. Know? This looks great in Gmail, but it looks horrible in Outlook. You know, I can make it better for Outlook, but now it's very boring in Gmail.
Nick:So I went very wide, said yes to everything, but then at some point, you start to notice that you either like something more or you're better at something compared to the rest. And only then you start to niche down. So now for me, like in The Netherlands, I'm mostly focused on SME, you know, small medium enterprise or SMB. I'm not sure. But at least, you know, smaller businesses, not tech savvy, but want to do tech stuff.
Nick:And then I I'm, like, a very broad design role for them. And then internationally, I'm more focused at startups in this one to a 100 phase. Like, not zero to one, but they have something. And then they're at this point of, you know, it's it's kinda working. We got a bit of revenue.
Nick:We've done everything ourselves so far, and you can really see that this is designed by a non designer. We need a designer, you know? So now I'm really narrowing it down to find more of the things that I really enjoy.
Tyler:Okay. So
Nick:that broad phase the broad phase was was two years. Like, I had two years of saying yes to everything and failing and falling on my face and saying yes to things I couldn't do, and then turns out I really couldn't do it, angry client, know, that type of thing. So I really experimented to until I figured out what I liked most.
Tyler:Okay. Okay. So it's about, like, going wide initially. Just have your feel areas out. Like, what what are, like, what do I hate doing?
Tyler:What what's annoying Yeah. Client interaction that I want to avoid?
Nick:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's gonna push you. It never was the goal.
Nick:It, you know, it it was not my goal to go white because I like to be white. I don't like to do everything. It really was to just to figure things out and then Okay. And then narrow it down back again. Like you do in a design project, actually.
Nick:You know?
Tyler:And what is like, you're being freelance, so you are the CEO accounting everything. How much time do you or should you spend or do you spend actually doing design client work? And then what percent are you actually doing running the business piece?
Nick:Right. I I think I can do about 80% of my time actual client work Okay. Which I I think it's it's pretty decent, I would say. I actually would like to bring it down slightly because I have, you know, I I have plans for our show and things I want to do more on our website and things we offer. But also for the Dutch market, I am I'm building a a training program, but it's, you know, it's kind of in progress, but not really finished yet, that type of thing.
Nick:I want to focus more on that. And then there's also a bit of, you know, admin stuff. You have to send invoices. You have to do your taxes, that kinda kinda thing. But that's the ratio isn't as bad as some people say it is.
Nick:You know, I I can still do, like, four days a week actually working.
Tyler:Okay. And then, like, if we're narrowed down on, like, that 20% or if it grows, like, what like, if we're to, like, to picture what that week looks like, what are you doing in that week that it's a part of that 20%?
Nick:Well, example for it is the value added tax. Over here, I have to do once a quarter, I have to submit a list to the, you know, the tax authorities. But once a month, I have also for some clients, I have an hour tap. So they we agree on the maximum budget Mhmm. And my hourly rate.
Nick:And then whatever they ask of me and I work for them, I keep a list. And then at the end of the month, I have to, you know, submit the list and the invoice. So it costs me a bit of time to keep track of all of that. Okay. This morning, I worked for client a four hours.
Nick:I have to write it down somewhere. And then at the end of the month, I have to just calculate it and send the invoice, log in to Stripe, and send that, you know, the the the things out. But there's also things like having meetings with potential clients, sending them a proposal for Hailey. We talked about this and that. I think it's, you know, fifty hours of work, and these are the milestones, and, you know, sign here, please, and that type of thing.
Nick:Mhmm. Interesting.
Tyler:So, like, sounds like that so there's, like, a mix of, like, that. What maybe I'll just double click on what that might look for someone starting out. I imagine their outbound would be would dwarf the inbound volume initially. What strategies would you kind of suggest around, like, reaching out to clients? Is it like email?
Tyler:Is it calling them? Like, what are what are some strategies there?
Nick:I I the first serious thing that happened to me was on LinkedIn. I had the the hidden open to work setting. So no green banner, but someone reached out to me because of it. They were like, You know, we're looking for a new designer. Hours left.
Nick:We have no designers at the moment. Would you like to join us? And I just came into this freelancing mindset. So I was like, well, you know, I'm actually I don't want to I don't want a new in house job. I'm actually considering going freelance.
Nick:Right. And they were like, okay. Yeah. Mhmm. Okay.
Nick:So that conversation was over. But then I send them a message like an hour later, do you need help in the meantime? Until you find someone. Like, there's probably some some high pressure project that's currently on hold because the designer left, and then, you know, you really need to get it done. Like, do you need some help there?
Nick:And they were like, oh, you know, that's interesting. Let's let's have a call next week. And I got two small, very small projects because of it. But that also meant I had a new connection. I did a good job.
Nick:They were happy. They paid me. So I had this motivational moment of, yes, I'm I'm beyond zero. Like, I have some revenue. I can do this.
Nick:Good learning experience. I had to sell myself. But the the the takeaway actually I want to mention here is that you have to be your perception has to be very very strong. Like, this guy has a problem. Like, he has no designer.
Nick:He needs one. And then you need to have the balls to actually send the message like, hey, you wanted this, but how about this other thing? You know, and if you bring it in a very friendly way, you know, you have a chance of of landing something. So, yeah, that's the type of quote unquote outbound, more or less inbound slash outbound outbound here what I did mostly. I did send messages to people from my network I used to work with, like, in the years before.
Nick:Like, hey. I'm going freelance. We worked together before. Do you need some help? Do you know someone who could use my help?
Nick:So I didn't do any cold outreach. I I don't think I I ever did actually.
Tyler:I understand. Because it's your kind of leveraging your network. Like, hey, by the way, I'm just spread the word. I'm I'm open for business, kind of thing.
Nick:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But it's it's it's a snowball thing because those that's that's temporarily help. You know, there are too many projects.
Nick:Like, that guy, he knows who I am, you know? And he might tell other people like, oh, you know, I I you have a similar thing. You know, you you should consider this Nick character. Like, he he did a decent job for us. Before we continue, if you're feeling stuck in your design career or if you feel like you're doing solid work while no one really notices, we've got a bunch of extra stuff on our website.
Tyler:We're building a community for product designers to actually learn, grow, and get hired, not just scroll and collect more inspiration.
Nick:There's also articles, checklists, and courses.
Tyler:All based on real world experience from both of us. No fluff, just what actually works.
Nick:Check out designtablepodcast.com. The link is in the description. Second thing I did is to be very active on, again, on Reddit and Twitter. So for example, I'm in the Reddit, the Webflow subreddit, and I comment on people being stuck. And then a few months ago, someone reached out to me.
Nick:They told me like, hey, I saw your you you you commented on on something on Reddit. I do you do this and that in Webflow as well? And I'm like, yeah. You know, let's let's talk about it. And then we had a call, and I got a small retainer project because of it.
Nick:You know? So I that's very indirect, just them seeing me as a a helpful and kind human being with comments. You know, that gets you a few clicks on your profile as well. And then if you have your email address or your website there, you know, they will get into a little funnel of social media comments, website, contact form, meeting, paid projects. Interesting.
Tyler:And on that, like, when you're like, when they come in, like, a sub like, back to, I think, an earlier episode, the subject money, like, how much someone's starting out, they don't know how what to charge. Mhmm. And they don't know what they could charge a particular client for a specific thing. Like, how do you Yeah. How do you navigate, like, those conversations?
Nick:I I would stay away from formulas and then calculation tools. Like, some people say, like, well, you should calculate your cost of living times this minus that, and, you I think it's way too complex. I would like, if you know someone, like someone you trust, like a former colleague or a friend or a neighbor, You can ask them for a ballpark, like range. But I would start, you know, with something just that feels right for you, and this is very fake fake advice, and and see if it sticks. So in its very first project, in my head, I was like, well, it's probably going to take a day.
Nick:And I told them like, okay, let's do €600. Like, just like cold faced, poker faced, just 600. And they were like, okay, you know, almost relieved. And and you have to look at their body language, and they clearly expected more. Right.
Nick:And then you know, like, okay, you know, I can probably try, like, $6.50 or 700 instead of 600. And then at some point, people are like, well, I have to talk to my cofounder about it. And you know you're really in the in the danger zone there, you know? So that very first one, that first 600, like, you that's the scary one, you know? But I for me, I would say it's probably better to get something underpaid and just have that first reference than you trying to get as close to the theoretical maximum as possible with odds are odds being that you overprice yourself, and then you still have not you do still you still don't have your first projects.
Nick:You know?
Tyler:Yeah. And, like, on that, like, a question that I get asked a lot is, like, what, like, what is the payment strategy, but, like, increments? Is it I heard some people, it's, like, everything up front, or it's 33%, 33%, 30%, or half. Like, what it like, what is you what is you found? Or is it a retainer?
Tyler:Like, what is, like what you found worked really well?
Nick:I when I started, we had this this big trend of the the unlimited subscription. Mhmm. You know? I I I skipped it entirely. I well, you know, that's not really true.
Nick:I I tried it once. I had one one client that way, but then we moved to something else. So when it's a one off project, my my default is to do fifty fifty, you know, 50% upfront. And then when the work is done, the remain remaining 50. When a project is really big and and that 50% is like a lot of money, I do a small starting fee and then milestone based.
Nick:So one project this this is a real example. It was for a a branding plus design plus web flow development projects. So I said, well, let's do a thousand upfront, and then I'll do the the branding plus design, you know, and then that's the next, like, 45%. And then when you're happy with all of that, and then we're going to build it, and then when all of that's done, we're going to do the the final 45. Mhmm.
Nick:You know, and and so so that's that's the incremental bit. I also have prepaid packages. So someone asked me recently for help. They were like, okay, Nick, I'm going to redesign my my app. I don't have budget for someone to be here full time, but I do would like your opinion and consultancy and and expertise.
Nick:I told them, okay. You can purchase a ten hour package. And then after you ask me something, it start you know, the meter is running, and at some point, you run out. And you can decide if you want more or if it's, you know, if if your design yeah. If if if they want to top up or if your design needs are met.
Nick:You know? But that's something they pay, you know, at the beginning. So it's it's prepaid. I'm going to pause there. So those two are by far the most common
Tyler:Okay. In what
Nick:I do.
Tyler:Sense. And then when you like, follow-up question there. You're, like, in in the freelance world, it's not the same as, like, in house where you get, a paycheck every two weeks or or twice twice a month. Yeah. What is and this also ties into the concept of taxes.
Tyler:Like, how should you, when you're first starting out, pay yourself versus what you should be saving? Like, how do you how do you know how to kind of, I guess, balance that?
Nick:I I I give myself a salary once a month. So I have my my business account. Money comes in. So Stripe I have a Stripe payout once a month on the twenty first. Twenty first is is very random.
Nick:Like in The Netherlands, it's it's common or almost standard to get your salary in the the final week of the month. So twenty first, you know, that's on the early side, but it's, you know, it's what we do over here, like rent and social security and all the things, you know. They require you or they ask you to pay it at the end of the month or just before you get your salary. So it all comes in from Stripe and Wise and and direct bank transfer in my business account. I set aside 50%.
Nick:It's on the high side, but I'd rather have something left over at the end of the year instead of having to pay extra because I didn't set aside enough, you know. From the 50% that remains, I put it all, you know, to the side in a savings account, and once a month, I pay myself a salary from the savings account. So yeah. That regardless of what comes in, you know. So and when you have a good month, which hopefully, you know, you do most of the time, that salary buffer, it grows.
Nick:You know? There's more coming in than that I'm paying myself as a salary, and that also means you have a buffer. So when you have a poor month or, you know, a dry spell or whatever, you still have that buffer that you can pay yourself from. That's yeah. That's smart.
Nick:Yeah. Yeah. Amount I'm paying might say sorry. Yeah?
Tyler:If you get a high month, you're not depleting your your reserve. You're kind of being very well, not calculated, but very strict in that regimen.
Nick:Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. When I started freelancing in the the weekends and the evenings, everything I made freelancing was extra.
Nick:So then once a month, I was like, okay. What fun things should I do now? You know? But then I quit my job, and the the money in my mind that was, you know, fun money suddenly became survival money. You know?
Nick:So then I I put yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Nick:So that I I put that in as my so I really had to put in a mind shift. And the the amount I paid myself was 9090% of my final in house salary just to, you know, really constrain myself. And that's been a few years ago. So every year, I give myself a little bit of a raise, like, you know, just to counter inflation and that kind of thing. And I have about seven or eight months of salary buffer currently, which gives me a lot of peace of mind.
Nick:You know, it's it's healthy. I know that I have some time to to find something, you know, if something terrible happens work wise.
Tyler:That's what yeah. I think that's important. Like, how important is that, like, buffer? And, like, what should it should it be that eight or six? Like, what is like, talk for first, I guess, talk about the importance of that piece.
Tyler:I think it's super important. And then, like, what should that buffer be?
Nick:Yeah. The buffer should be an amount that gives you, you know it it helps you sleep at night. You know? I don't care if it's three or six months. Like, the financial experts will recommend you a number of months.
Nick:I I don't really know. For me, six months feels good, half a year. It feels like a long time. Like, if I cannot find a replacement client in six months, you know, you probably shouldn't be a freelancer. You know?
Nick:So so now now I'm a bit over, but that's also on purpose because I know, like, I have a a laptop laptop from 2021. You know, it probably has, like, two years left in it, one or two years, but it also might break. And you know how expensive MacBooks are getting these days with memory shortages and that kind of stuff. So I expect that I have to pay, like, a month's salary at some point to purchase a new computer. So Okay.
Nick:I'm okay with being over a little bit. And, yeah, I don't know what I will do when it grows further. Maybe I'll just let it be, or I'll invest some more. I'll, you know, pay off some extra student loans. I don't know.
Tyler:K. And then last question for you. You mentioned a couple of things. Are you Stripe wise? Like, someone's starting on freelance, what are it's a fancy way.
Tyler:What is your tech stack for a freelancer? What what piece of software should you be purchasing?
Nick:Why? I like Stripe because it's very easy to to get a to get payments from, you know, lots of different countries. You know? It's it's I I don't know how many countries it supports, but it supports, I think, the most, the, you know, the the the big ones. And then with payment links and that kind of stuff, so it really it's really helpful.
Nick:I the admin stuff, I just do in in Apple Numbers, but you can also use, you know, some sort of spreadsheet tool. And then I have Trello, for, you know, good old school Trello just for my Yep. To do Yeah. For my to do list. And then your own website, of course, you know, with services you offer, something about you, previous work, pricing maybe, good way to reach out to you, you know, that kind of stuff.
Nick:So I I'd like to keep it very minimal, like, just to bear necessities. A way to get paid, a way for people to find you, and a way to keep track of things. Interesting. Yeah.
Tyler:Good strategy. Like, good round. Think someone can really follow this when when when starting out. That's some really good ideas in there.
Nick:Yeah. I I think well, I hope so. I hope so. My, you know, my tech stack or my business stack, like, if I would make a post on it on social media, would probably get two or three likes because it's not impressive or, you know, viral or clickbaity at all. You know, it's very boring and functional, but it's really stress free also.
Nick:You could make it clickbaity. Yeah.
Tyler:My low budget my low budget hack to become a freelancer. Yeah. Give me the secret.
Nick:True. True. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Nick:Yeah. But it's yeah. That's it's also not the the personal brand I want to to to build for myself. You know? But I could learn a thing or two from social media use from you, I think, because you're growing very fast on on LinkedIn.
Tyler:I try to slow slow down for everyone across the board, so new strategies need to be deployed. But as is the product designer's life, embrace and pivot.
Nick:Yeah. Yeah. We are at the we are at the the top of the wave of change as a product designer, and that's really cool. Yeah. Yeah.
Nick:I mean, if people need help for getting started with freelancing, they they can just comment or reach out. Always happy to help. I always have about one or two people I coach with getting a job or starting a business.
Tyler:Yeah. And where can selfish plug or I'll be selfish for you? Where where can people reach out to you to to Nick if they have some work for you?
Nick:Sure. Just send me a message on on LinkedIn. It's probably the easiest. Awesome, man.
Tyler:Love to hear it. Alright. That's another episode in the bag.
Nick:Yeah. Great episode. By the way, if you're stuck second guessing your work or trying to figure out your next move, drop a question in the comments or leave a review. We might actually feature you in one of our future episodes.
Tyler:And if you got any value from this episode, hit subscribe wherever you're listening. It helps more than you think.
Nick:You can can find everything else, resources, articles, and more at designtablepodcast.com.
Tyler:Thanks for being here.
Nick:See you next time.