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Join the Youthworks Ministry Support Team as they discuss how to have an effective youth and children’s ministry in every church in conversation with local ministry workers as well as national and international voices.
Get in touch - effectiveministrypodcast@youthworks.net
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
welcome back to the podcast.
this is the Effective Ministry podcast,
or is it the Timeless Parenting podcast?
Who knows?
My name is Al James.
I am a youth ministry advisor with
Youthworks in Sydney, and the reason
that I, I started the, the podcast that
way is because we're actually doing a
crossover, , episode with the Timeless
Parenting podcast, which is hosted by
Anne Cunningham and Harriet Connor.
Um, and it's run by, Mothers'
Union Sydney, as well as Growing
Faith, which is, uh, another
part of Youthworks as well.
And the reason we're doing this
crossover podcast is, number one, we
are very, very aligned when it comes
to the things that we think about, um,
the way, the ways in which we think
about ministry, um, and particularly,
, about parents and that kind of thing.
, But also we're doing this episode,
, because, , there is something really,
really important to talk about, , and
that is we wanna think a little bit
about parenting that is Christ-anchored.
, So that's really, really important
from the, the effective youth and
children's ministry side of things, but
also really, really important from the
parenting side of things, obviously.
And the reason we're doing that now, we're
having this conversation now, is 'cause
there's a, a brand-new book out, , called
Parenting in God's Family Volume II.
You may have heard of volume one.
You may have even read volume one.
It's a really, really helpful
resource, and I wanna say that volume
two is also really helpful as well.
And so it covers a lot of different
ground, which is really, really
valuable and useful both to parents,
but also for people that are in
youth or children's ministry as well.
So it's just a really
nice natural alignment.
, But I wanna introduce, my guests,
and they might think that, you know,
actually I'm their guest because
we're doing the crossover podcast.
Um, but Harriet and Anne.
Anne, how are you?
ann_2_06-01-2026_131921: I am very
I'm really glad to be a part of
this conversation and to be part
of what can help equip families
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
Fantastic.
And Harriet, hi.
harriet_2_06-01-2026_131921: Thanks for
having us
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
not at all.
Um, Harriet, I wanna start with you.
I'm really excited about
this, new resource.
Um, I got to contribute to it.
A few people from my team also got
to contribute to it, but a whole
bunch of other people as well.
Um, but Harriet, you are the editor
of this new volume, , Parenting
in God's Family, Volume 2.
I just wanna ask you, why did
you initiate this project?
What's the philosophy behind
having these multiple authors
writing short topical chapters?
Um, yeah, give us, give us an insight
harriet_2_06-01-2026_131921: Well,
it's called Parenting in God's
Family because we're really aware
that we're not parenting alone, that
we parent within the family of God.
And that's a really important principle
here, that, um, these books are sort
of distilled wisdom from lots of
different Christians, each one has their
own area of expertise, if you like.
So I just looked around and I saw
there were a lot of Christians who were
writing about issues relevant to parents,
and I don't have the expertise in all
those different topics, so I approached
them for volume one and then again
for volume two, uh, "Would you like to
write, um, a chapter for this volume?"
And most of them have written
full-length books on their
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
So they're really distilling down
their wisdom into, into a short chunk
harriet_2_06-01-2026_131921: readers have
to be aware we can't say everything about
everything in one chapter, but it does
give readers a framework for considering
that, um, topic from a Christian
perspective, and we often have, uh,
recommended resources at the end of the
chapter too, so that if that particular
topic is really affecting you right now,
you can go and read some more, listen
some more, find out more, um, detail.
I think parents don't have a lot of time,
so we're trying to provide books that
you don't have to read cover to cover.
You can look at what are the issues
that are affecting your family right
now and reach out for those chapters,
and we hope it's gonna be a, a,
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
So, and it's very much a dip in,
dip out kind of book, isn't it?
It's a kind of, you've got, you've now two
volumes, um, where you can have a look at
the different chapters and kind of goâ¦
It isn't a cover to cover book.
It's a kind of, "Oh, what
am I facing right now?"
Which you, you helpfully said.
Um, and just, I, I mean, I, I feel
like it really, really valuable to
have all these different voices because
we're all, uh, like, I mean, as you
said, we're kind of just muddling
through as parents, aren't we?
We're, we're doing our best.
We don't have all the answers, and
someone else's chapter might not have the
precise, exact, um, plan that you need
to follow, and yet it's really helpful
to have someone else's voice just to
kind of use as a starting point, um,
offer some really helpful reflections
based on, from a principal's, principal's
point of view, but also how you go about
parenting in these various different,
harriet_2_06-01-2026_131921:
it's like sitting down for a
cup of
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
Mm-hmm.
harriet_2_06-01-2026_131921: or
coffee, uh, with a-
another
Christian and hearing their story,
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
Yeah, yeah.
And, um, you've, you've
read, you've read the book.,
What are your thoughts on it?
ann_2_06-01-2026_131921: I, I, the to- the
topics are home for, for every parent at
various times in their parenting journey.
The same with volume one.
and I think it's important for--
Mothers' Union Sydney, we run quite
a few different parenting seminars,
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
Mm.
ann_2_06-01-2026_131921: the
blessing to come in contact with
um, from all over the place.
And I think it's helpful
to have many voices
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
Hmm
ann_2_06-01-2026_131921: are
solid Christians and have
well-thought-out on particular topics.
Otherwise, we tend to funnel into one
particular person and one particular way
of doing things, and that's not parenting.
Um, so it's great to
have different voices.
It's great to have people who've
really thought it through, and it's
just amazing to have a Christian
voice, uh, in, in what is a really
complicated space of parenting.
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
Well, I haven't thought about this too
much before, but just where, where you
said there that you, you're interacting
with people from all sorts of different
kinda walks of life, like lots of
different circumstances going on.
Um, I can imagine that having
a book that doesn't kind ofâ¦
You know, the chapters vary a little
bit as to how practical they are.
But, um, to have something that is
setting out some broad principles
with a few ideas for practice, I can
imagine can be, in some cases, more
useful when you've got so many different
circumstances going on than a how-to,
here's a checklist, that kind of thing.
What are your thoughts on that, Anne?
ann_2_06-01-2026_131921: totally
c-completely agree with that because
we are all unique We're unique
individuals, and, and I, I sometimes
think of it like we're, you know, we
have the same structure, don't we?
Like a house has the same structure,
but we pick different paint
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
Hmm
ann_2_06-01-2026_131921: know, you
know, we, we add to it our own unique
and flavor, and that's parenting.
So needs to be applied, uh, but
it needs to be applied wisely.
So that's why having somebody
who's thought through the, the,
the issue or the topic, that helps
us apply it wisely to the unique
family that God's blessed us with
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
Now, Harriet, as you were editing
this book, it wasn't just the
case that you kind of went, "Well,
what are the hot button issues in
parenting, um, and, and discipling
young people i- in your family?"
Um, there was a little bit of a
framework to how you put it together.
Do you wanna just sort
of walk us through that?
And then we'll have a bit of a, a chat
about the benefit of that framework.
harriet_2_06-01-2026_131921: When I
think about Christian parenting, um,
I think that there's multiple layers
of understanding where we are in
God's, um, story of salvation, and
that all helps to build up our, um,
our understanding of what it means
to be a Christian parent, what we're
aiming for,
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
Hmm.
harriet_2_06-01-2026_131921: the
um, where is the solid ground.
And so like to think about where
we are, that we are in creation.
So first of all, we are in the created
world that God made, and that shapes
some of how we understand what it
means to be a parent, just those basic
creational realities, the stuff that you
could find out through biology, through
science, through research and data,
things that are true for non-Christian
parents as much as true for us.
Christians know at the same time,
we are in a fallen world, so that
shapes how we do our parenting too.
Um, and of course, as Christian parents,
we are in Christ, that being hidden in
Christ, belonging to him, being people who
follow Jesus and bringing our kids along
for the ride, that shapes our parenting.
But it's not just us.
We are also in the church, and
so that shapes how we parent too.
That it's not just our job to
raise our kids, although we are
primarily responsible, but we have
the blessing of being part of a
wider family of faith as well.
we also need to be aware that we are
in a changing world, that we have
these aims and ideals for our kids,
but at the same time, the world
around us has very different aims
and ideas for the next generation.
the final thing that Christian
parents, the final layer, the final
thing to keep in mind is that we
parent in the light of eternity.
So I think that's really unique to
Christian parenting, that we know
where we're going, we know what God's
gonna do at the end of this story,
we know where everything's heading,
and we have a hope that, uh, whatever
struggles we're going through now will
be, um, put right in the new creation,
in the new heavens and the new Earth.
So I like to see those as different
lenses that we view parenting through.
It's like we used to have these puzzles
that had layers, and you would do-- Some
of the layers were transparent, and so
you'd build up the, um, the foundation
layer, which is like the background,
and slowly you'd build up the different
layers, and I feel like that's how up a
picture of what is Christian parenting.
You build up all those layers, and when
you're seeing it all at the same time,
you get the full picture of how to parent
where we are in
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
Hmm.
Which, I mean, uh, like
we, we were trying toâ¦
A- as we were sort of planning this,
we were thinking about like, is there a
metaphor that kind of is helpful for this?
And I, I think, um, one of the
ones that resonated with me, and I
flagged it, um, at the, in the intro
as well, is the idea of an anchor.
And I actually really love this framework,
kind of working from creation all the
way through to new creation, with all of
the bits in between, the fallen-ness, the
responsibility we have in Christ, uh, and,
you know, the world that we live in, the
church community that we're part of, um,
and obviously making sure that we're, you
know, doing this in light of community.
But what that does though, and
you've, you sort of used this
language a- already, Harriet, but
it kind of forms the solid ground.
So when I think of the anchor, like
with an anchor, you don't kind of pick
it up and carry it around and kind of
go, "Oh, I'm gonna drag the boat over
here," and all that sort of stuff.
Actually, what you do is you drop the
anchor over, and it stays in the one
spot, and so you might have a little bit
of room to kind of go around, which is,
you know, like the having the different
voices and their perspective on parenting.
You know, there's room within
that, but, but, um, all of
that is tethered to Christ.
It's anchored to Christ, and so as
we kind of think about parenting,
we want to recognize that, um,
you know, Christ is our anchor.
He sets the parameters for the way
the world is, the way that we go
about parenting, um, the way that we
think about discipling young people,
and all of that kind of thing.
And yet we recognize that
there's different contexts.
It's gonna land slightly differently
for this family and that family.
They might be going through
something different.
So having that, having those, uh,
perspectives, but recognizing that,
ah, there's some principles here
that we can work from and a little
bit of room to move around, um, is,
I think, really, really helpful.
So for me, it's the an- that, that
anchored, um, anchored in Christ, um,
uh, metaphor is really helpful for me
ann_2_06-01-2026_131921: I, I li-
I like the anchor idea, but I, for
me, I feel like, you know, so much
crossover between-- for all parents,
there's things that we share,
like you said, we're different.
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
Mm-hmm.
ann_2_06-01-2026_131921: idea that
but not of the world.
Um, and what does that look like?
Which is the um, I often get people
ring up and say they want a parenting
course or people are at courses.
They wanna know, what does it look like?
Um,
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
They want the, they want the practical,
like the, the kind of the fads,
the techniques, that kind of thing.
Is that right?
ann_2_06-01-2026_131921: often,
oftentimes, I-- although there's
a, there's an integrity and an
earnestness, people generally
want the best for their children.
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
Mm-hmm.
ann_2_06-01-2026_131921: Christians,
they wanna do as a Christian parent.
So there's this real genuine desire
to honor God in how they parent.
Um
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
Yeah, I love that.
Um, and I think, I mean, one of the
things that we, we also talked about
as well is, like, the different voices
and this framework helps us to kind of
avoid the idea of, like, just getting
that tech- you know, that there's a
particular technique, which I think
you, you guys have both spoken about.
There's a particular technique, there's a
real, you know, like, there's a particular
process that every child will go through
or, or every family will go through.
Um, that's not really
what we're aiming for.
We're aiming for faithfulness in
all of the, all of the kind of
situations that we, we can have
thrown at us in the life that we're
living in, in this changing world.
Well, why don't we walk through,
um, the different sections, um,
that we've been talking about.
They're sections in the book,
but also the kind of framework
that Harriet's talked about.
So start with in creation.
Harriet, why don't you give us a little
bit of an overview of what that means,
some of the things that arise from it?
harriet_2_06-01-2026_131921: Um, I
think living in creation means that
we just recognize certain things
from the way that we are created.
Um, for example, our bodies are
being created, uh, that mothers are
different to fathers, uh, in our role
in, um, in reproduction, and then in
how we, uh, contribute to parenting
after our children are born as well.
And so, uh, this section of
the book has some chapters,
a couple of chapters from Dr.
Megan Best, um, who's a medical doctor
and a bioethicist, and so she's looked
at, uh, topics of contraception and also
infertility, in particular, um, the ethics
of assisted reproductive technologies.
So she's really coming from that,
uh, medical perspective, but a
very Christian perspective as well.
And we've got a chapter that sort of
focused on fathers and their particular
role in families by Andrew Horsfield,
and I've contributed a chapter the s-
the unique role of mothers, the unique
work of mothers, and how that role,
um, can work with paid work as well.
So I've offered some reflections
on motherhood and work, we also
have a wonderful chapter from,
um, Keith and Sarah Condie.
I've heard this chapter described
as gold an early reader.
just some wonderful, um,
ideas for strengthening our
marriages
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
Why do we think it's so important
that we view parenting through this
lens of the created order, that we're
doing this in the reality of creation?
ann_2_06-01-2026_131921: I
think for me, reminds me of
that verse that God is mindful.
Like what is mankind that
you're mindful of him?
Like God's created us, he's created
us to be in relationship with him.
He's created us to flourish, and
it, it gives me a sense of that, you
know, I ⦠It takes the pressure off.
God's the one that created.
the one that has a plan, God's
the one that is, you know,
making his plans come to pass
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
Adding on top of what you've said
there as well, like, I think for me
there's, um, there's a lot of-- I think
there's a lot of pressure, um, to get
it right sometimes to kind of be like,
"Oh, you've got to do this or that."
But-- And there's lots of choices,
I think, as well in parenting.
Um, you know, if, if you're on TikTok or
Instagram, which I know, uh, you know,
I-- as a, as a parent of young children,
I was a little bit too early for.
But, um, I know that Instagram and
TikTok are sources of, um, parenting
wisdom for people that are, you know,
raising young kids at the moment.
There's all these choices, and yet
the idea that there are actually
some firm realities about creation,
I think for me, um, uh, uh, that
I find that settling, I think.
You know, that all things being equal, you
know, and there are, there are different
meandering paths and that kind-- But at
a broad level, all things being equal,
this is kind of the way things are.
I, I find that really helpful.
I don't know about you guys.
harriet_2_06-01-2026_131921: I
actually didn't use the verb parenting.
I don't, I don't really like
it, um, because I don't think
parenting is something we do, it's
who
we are.
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
Hmm.
harriet_2_06-01-2026_131921:
mother, you know,
I
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
Hmm.
harriet_2_06-01-2026_131921: do
to parent them.
We-- It's relationship,
it's not technique,
as
you said before,
Al.
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
Yeah
harriet_2_06-01-2026_131921: And the
sets
that up, that just
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
Yeah
harriet_2_06-01-2026_131921:
my That's that.
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
There's, there's a biological
and therefore creational reality
that that is the way things are
harriet_2_06-01-2026_131921: And of
course, I mean, we're going to-- the, the
point of all these layers is that we can't
just
have one layer.
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
Hmm
harriet_2_06-01-2026_131921: that
wouldn't
tell us everything.
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
Yeah
harriet_2_06-01-2026_131921: it
doesn't
adoptive families,
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
Mm-hmm.
harriet_2_06-01-2026_131921: through other
means, and we acknowledge that not all
families start in that raw biological way.
Um, but that's because, and perhaps we
could go there next, that we also live
in a
fallen world
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
Well, l-let's go there.
Oh, actually, before we go there, um,
I mean, I, I wonder about, um, what
if we don't, um, keep this in balance
with some of the other lenses, some
of the other truths that we're c- like
if we, if we don't kind of-- if we
over-focus on this, what can it lead to?
harriet_2_06-01-2026_131921: aspect.
I think we can come a, become a bit
too
idealistic, and
we
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
Mm-hmm.
harriet_2_06-01-2026_131921: that
families
look like this.
And if something's happened in, in
your life and your family doesn't look
like, you know, mom, dad, and, and two
kids, then, um, yeah, we can s- we can
judge, we
can
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
Hmm.
harriet_2_06-01-2026_131921: a
type of family.
We can expect perfect results
if we just apply the formula.
So I think if we only look at creation,
then, uh, it can lead to this kind
of, um, idealism or perfectionism if
we don't acknowledge the realities
of living in a fallen world.
what do you think
ann_2_06-01-2026_131921: I think
it, it adds the pressure that
you were talking about, Al.
Instead of having that, you know, uh,
well, the peace I described, the lack of
pressure you described, gives us pressure.
And then that does lead us, like you
said, onto paths of judging, of idolizing.
Yeah.
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
on the judging thing, quick story, and,
uh, apologies if I've shared this story
before, but, um, our-- my first son, um,
who's now 17, but he, he was the kind of
kid that he was sleeping 7:00 till 7:00.
7:00 PM to 7:00 AM, and, um, and I
just thought that we had this sorted.
Like, we were just kind of, you know,
the best kind of parents and, you
know, like, this is just how it works.
This is just, you know, all things
being equal, this is how it works.
And so-- And I look back on myself as
a, a young, a young dad at the time and
just think how, how awful I would've
been to be around, particularly if you
had children similar age, 'cause I just
thought I had it all worked, worked out.
But then our second son came along,
um, two years later, and, um, he did
not-- he was not at all like that.
He, he wasâ¦
I mean, we, we had a really rough
time in terms of sleep for him, and
I-- that was a really, really helpful
thing for me to kinda go, "Ah, yes,
there are actually, um, you knowâ¦
There are other lenses by which
we, we can kind of view this,
this, uh, this situation."
And so I was-- I think it was
really helpful for me to have my,
my pride, my arrogance, um, as a
dad kind of knocked out of me by,
by my second son, and I'm ve- still
very thankful to him for, for that.
ann_2_06-01-2026_131921:
had moments like that, Al.
I can, I
can
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
Yeah.
ann_2_06-01-2026_131921: a few of
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, Yep.
so um, uh, so there's creation.
I think it's a really helpful discussion.
Um, the next lens is, um, the,
the lens of the fallen world.
So Harriet, why don't you give us a
little bit of a, an overview of that?
harriet_2_06-01-2026_131921: I think, um,
as Christians, we're in this wonderful
position of being able to talk about
having a language for when things go
wrong in our lives and in the world.
And so we know already that we
need to prepare our children for
that because we know that we're not
perfect, we know they're, they're not
perfect, and we know that their lives
will not be or free from suffering.
So, um, yeah, w- there's some, some very
heavy chapters, I would say, in this
section, um, but ultimately chapters that
really, um, have that eternal perspective.
So Ruth Barry has written very and
encouragingly, um, about, uh, walking
through times of suffering and grief
as a family, and then a second chapter
about how Christians can show practical
love, um, to other families when they
are walking through those hard times.
got a, a chapter about, um, if our child
is experiencing same-sex attraction.
A chapter, um, from Patricia Weerakoon
and Kamal Weerakoon about, um, when
teens experience gender confusion.
And then, um, in this section as well,
it's not just that, um, fallenness
affects families, but I think one
thing that makes parenting very
difficult is not necessarily that we're
sinful or fallen, but just that we're
limited, that we're finite beings.
We are created.
We are not God.
And so there's a wonderful chapter,
uh, from Kate Morris, um, so
encouraging for anyone to read, but
her particular perspective is that
neurodivergent families can't do it all.
family can.
So we're just looking at the realities
that we wanna be everything to our kids,
we wanna be able to be there for them,
we wanna be the perfect parents, but
we're human, and so we need to rest.
Um, and we only have
two hands and one lap.
We, uh, can only be in one place at
one time, and the more kids we have, I
think the more we feel that limitation
that I just can't be everything to
every one of my kids all the time.
So yeah, so it's not just
fallenness, but also, um, our
finiteness
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
Yeah.
And I think, I mean, it's helpful as well
at this point potentially to, to just
kind of spell out that there are things
that go on in family life which are
difficult and, um, and hard to deal with
as a, as a direct result of personal sin.
Like, that's-- We don't want to shy away
from the reality that that is the case.
You know, as a dad, I am, um, uh,
you know, I, I am subject to my own
fallenness, and sometimes that plays
out in ways that I wish it didn't.
Um, and, you know, by the same token, my
kids and my wife, we, we all kind ofâ¦
We, um, experience that same thing.
We're fallen individuals who
sometimes or who, who sin.
And yet there's another view of sin
which I think is equally, um, helpful,
and that is the brokenness of the world.
And so, um, sometimes things arise not
because of personal sin, not because
someone has done anything in particular
that needs to be punished or has
consequences in and of itself, but just
arise because of the reality, um, that
we live in a fallen and a broken world.
Um, and so often where there's grief or
suffering to do with illness or death or
that kind of thing, we don't attribute
personal sin, um, uh, so we don't
attribute to that to personal sin, but
just that the world is a fallen and broken
harriet_2_06-01-2026_131921: Yeah.
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
just really, I think, helpful to,
to point that out at that point.
ann_2_06-01-2026_131921: for
Christian families, isn't it?
Um, I, I can't imagine how somebody
who doesn't have that understanding
copes with just the, you know, sheer
enormity of turning on the news
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
Hmm
ann_2_06-01-2026_131921: what's going
and then having to see your
child suffer in some way.
Um, so to know that there's a, a
something behind that to help you
understand that even if we don't quite
We can't do the why answer, but we,
we know the-- we have a who that's
behind it that, that we can turn to.
Um, know, that, that's
a comfort, isn't it?
When you, when you're holding both
things together, you're holding the
pain of what's happening in a fallen
world with being a finite being,
so you're holding that pain, but
you're also holding that comfort that
God is God, and He's with you, and
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
Absolutely
so we've looked at creation, we've
looked at, um, the fallenness of
the world, uh, and the, you know,
the finiteness of hu- humanity.
Uh, I wanna think a little bit about
responsibility in Christ as well.
Um, Harriet, give us a
little bit of an overview
harriet_2_06-01-2026_131921:
Christian parents are Christians.
We belong to Jesus, and so that is,
um, just we are and where we parent
from is our faith in Christ, and we
invite our children to share in that.
Um, but the book, I guess, focuses
on the way that we, parents bear
the primary responsibility for
their children's discipleship.
and so, uh, we look at,
uh, what that looks like.
We-- I asked, um, I asked for a few
particular topics to be covered by you
and, uh, Anne Marie in particular at
this point, and also Tim Bielhight-Hartz,
whose chapter comes up later on.
Um, because, um, I know at YouthWorks
you guys are often talking about
what does the research say?
so the research says that when it comes
to children sticking with the faith,
certain things seem to be very common
in children who do stick with the faith.
And so the chapters, um, touch on that.
So we look at God talk in the
home, just those natural everyday,
um, conversations about faith.
in your chapter, Al, you might wanna
tell us more about this, but we
look at the importance of children
serving, um, and why that's important.
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
Yeah, I mean, absolutely.
Like, I think, I think, um, it seems
to be clear that when young people
have a sense that they can contribute
meaningfully to the life and faith of
others, um, they're more likely to buy
into the body of Christ in which theyâ¦
Or to the community that
they, um, they serve.
And so we wanna recognize that, um,
all Christians are servants, and
that includes young people as well.
There's some biological kind of
realities, some developmental realities,
um, which shape the way in which you
might, you know, how you might go about
serving, um, and when that might happen.
Um, but I-- but yeah, absolutely, I think
the idea that, um, as parents, we want
to, um, make sure that, um, our children
who are believers or being raised in the
faith are also thinking of themselves
as those who serve just as Christ did
harriet_2_06-01-2026_131921: And there's
one more chapter in that section which
I haven't mentioned yet, and that
is, um, partnering with your child's
school, because in our modern lives,
school is such a big deal, isn't it?
It takes up so much of our kids' time.
Um, it's a community that shapes and
forms who they become, and so it's
really important as Christian parents
that we also take responsibility for
our kids' education, um, not just their
discipleship, but their education,
and see ourselves as partners with
their teachers and their school.
So there's a very practical
chapter, um, from some teachers,
um, about how we can do
that
well.
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
We wanna affirm, don't we, that
parents have the responsibility
to disciple their kids for Christ,
to raise them to know Jesus.
Um, and yet we don't wanna put so
much emphasis on that, that we take
away from some other realities.
So we can, if we over-focus on
that responsibility, we can put
too much pressure on ourselves,
you know, in the place of God
who's sovereign over all things.
Um, and we can wrench the
shared responsibility that
church communities also have.
Um, and, and we can s- view
ourselves as kind of, you know,
uh, in place of God, responsible
for the salvation of our children,
which of course we know is not true.
Um, so I think it's really helpful
for us to kinda just, you know, have,
hold all of these, I mean, and we've
been saying this over and over, but
holding all of these, um, these lenses
together and viewing, uh, viewing our
responsibility as parents through,
through all of the lenses at the same time
ann_2_06-01-2026_131921: guess key
words in there that might help that
is the word partnership, because
a partnership means that you don't
take sole responsibility, right?
So
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
Yeah
ann_2_06-01-2026_131921: you're with,
uh, the school, you're partnering
with, uh, your church family, then
that's going to help you navigate that.
And then if you're, you know, thinking
about what is my responsibility
here, uh, as a Christian parent, than
sort of taking on what's not yours.
Um, so constantly then coming back
and remembering what's God's role and
what's your role,
harriet_2_06-01-2026_131921: å¯
ann_2_06-01-2026_131921: is,
is really
helpful.
And that's sometimes a, a bit of a
constant thing that we need to do or
a, a regular thing that we need to do.
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
Yeah, yeah.
Just gotta take, take your own
temperature from time to time, don't you?
harriet_2_06-01-2026_131921: And
to
to the metaphor of the boat, you
might be drifting a little bit
that way at one point, and so the
anchor
pulls you back this way, and then
you
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
Yeah
harriet_2_06-01-2026_131921: a little bit
over
and the anchor pulls you back this way.
I think at different times, different
elements of these sort of layers
or lenses will be, um, stronger,
and then we just gently get nudged
back to the middle ground, don't we?
I think most Christians like the idea
of the
middle ground.
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Um, all right, so let's move on
to the next, um, the next lens,
um, that we're thinking through.
So, you know, parents are, um, have, have
the primary responsibility to discipline
their child, but as Anne talked about,
this, this idea of partnership, one of
the places in which that partnership
is expressed is with the church.
So Harriet, give us a bit
of an overview of that
harriet_2_06-01-2026_131921: Well,
we've got a couple of chapters about
church, and the first one is from
Tim Bielharz, and he's really hitting
on the final thing that the research
shows, which, um, contributes to the
children who do stick with the Christian
faith, um, and that is what you might
call intergenerational discipleship.
So we look at how the church provides
those relationships beyond the
parent-child relationship that can
really strengthen our children's
faith, provide them with mentors who
are not us, um, give them role models
of living out the Christian faith
in a different way to their parents.
Um, just those auntie, uncle,
godparent type figures who are
so important in a child's life,
especially as they the teenage years.
And so, um, yeah, there's a
chapter on intergenerational
discipleship and also a chapter on
vulnerability within our churches.
What is the importance, what's
the value of being honest and real
with other parents in our churches?
ann_2_06-01-2026_131921: Just to
add a little bit to what you just
said then, Harriet, about being
honest and vulnerable, you know,
with- in your church community.
I think as parents it's really great
if we actually can, um, foster that
support amongst fellow families
and in our church family as well.
So 'cause we're not really
designed to do this alone, so
the more support we can get, the,
the better it is
harriet_2_06-01-2026_131921: å¯ã
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
Just to kind of, uh, cross the
chapters over a little bit, like in
some ways that's the respon- part
of our responsibility as parents.
So, you know, the primary responsibility,
not the sole responsibility, and
yet part of that responsibility
is to foster that partnership
that you're talking about there.
And so there is a bit of bleed between the
different chapters and that kind of thing.
what if we get this out of balance?
You know, what if we, what, what are some
of the possibilities if we don't, if we
don't kind of focus on this one enough?
harriet_2_06-01-2026_131921: Yeah, I
think, um, I once think it was Dani
Treweek giving a talk, and she, she gave
the history of the phrase nuclear family.
And, you know, the nucleus is
only the middle part of the atom.
And so the, the problem with just
thinking about our nuclear family is
we're missing the whole rest of the atom.
Um, and we're not actually designed
to be just, you know, mom, dad,
and the kids against the world.
So I think if we have this sort
of inward focus, like of course
we need time alone as a family.
I'm not saying we don't need that, but
we need to have a strong family, and
that requires focused time together.
when we are strong, that means we can be
strong in the middle but flexible around
the edges, that our family needs to see--
have its identity as kind of, uh, loosely
defined in that way, that we're open in
hospitality, we're open and welcoming,
and that we come to church regularly.
I think many families up not going
to church regularly, um, because
they sort of have sport commitments
or other things that come up.
So think it is important to really see
your family as part of a wider family
and to turn up regularly, uh, to benefit
from the, all the support the church
has to offer and to be of benefit to
the others in your church who need you.
We need each other.
ann_2_06-01-2026_131921: Which taps
into the whole notion of we're one body.
God's, God's called a people.
Uh, he hasn't called a
family, he's called a people.
Um, so by, by regularly turning up to
church, by being that part of the church
family actively, that's modeling to our
kids what it is to be in Christ's family
harriet_2_06-01-2026_131921: Mm.
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
And to over-focus on this, um, on
this particular lens, it is, you know,
there's a risk there as well, and I
think, um, what that might look like
is to outsource the discipleship of
your kids to the youth ministry, to
the kids ministry, that kind of thing.
And, and to be honest, I
think, um, you know, oftenâ¦
Now, this is not the case in every youth
ministry or children's ministry, but often
there are younger, younger people who are
responsible that are doing the, the, the
discipling in those s- um, circumstances.
And if there's one thing that I've noticed
as I've got around to all the youth
ministries, um, in the western region of
Sydney, is that those young people are
often a little bit scared to engage with
parents, and parents are often a little
bit scared to engage with those young
people who, who are leading their kids.
And so, I mean, I think I just wanna
say, um, you know, as, uh, you knowâ¦
Th- this is, this is a message both to
parents but also to those that are in
the youth and children's ministry world.
That it's such an important
thing that you know each other,
that you partner together.
Um, so we don't wanna over-focus
on the role of the church and
abdicate our responsibility.
We wantâ¦
Sometimes we have to fight for
partnership a little bit as well.
Um, don't be combative about it, but,
um, I think sometimes as parents,
kinda getting in front of, um,
the, your, your, your kids' leaders
can be a really helpful thing.
Smile, say hello, use their
name, all that sort of stuff.
all right, let's think about, um,
the lens of the changing world.
Harriet, give us a
little bit of a overview
harriet_2_06-01-2026_131921: Well,
I think, um, I just often think
that if we're Christians raising
Christian children, then we're gonna
be weird, and they're gonna be weird.
Um, and that's okay because, yeah, the
world wants very different things, um, for
us, for our parenting, and for our kids.
so, um, yeah, we-- it's good to stop
and think about how to do that well.
And so we've got some, uh,
really great chapters there.
Um, Jen Phillips has written about
how to have grace-filled conversations
about culture when that thing on the
TV makes you raise your eyebrows,
and your kids ask an interesting
question about what those people on
TV were talking about, or a different
family structure, that kind of thing.
How do we have, uhâ¦
or another religion.
How do we have good conversations with
our kids that help them to be gracious
towards others, but also firmly grounded
in the truth, the truths that we believe?
And yeah, we've got a chapter about habits
for mental health as a family because our
world is very fast-paced and does put a
lot of pressure on parents and children.
So just a really positive spin on
how can we build mental health.
We've got a chapter about how to parent,
uh, in an age of climate anxiety.
This won't affect every family,
but many young people today are
experiencing a sense of anxiety
about, um, the future of the planet.
And so, uh, yeah, whatever we, uh,
believe about that particular topic,
it's good to stop and think about
how do we reassure our children?
How do we bring a Christian
lens to that particular topic?
and finally, we've got two
great chapters, uh, by James and
Simone Boswell about technology.
Uh, one chapter called "Who
Is Raising Your Online Child?"
is a pro-provocative question to think
about, and a whole chapter about parenting
in an age of artificial intelligence.
So they're just some aspects of our
changing world that we've touched on.
There are plenty more we could
have
touched on
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
Lots and lots.
Um, and it, it is interesting as well,
isn't it, the way that this dovetails
to the, the, um, uh, you know, the idea
of the God conversations in the home.
One of the reasons in, in whichâ¦
Uh, th- one of the reasons that God
conversations in the home, talking
about God at home, um, is so important
is so that these kinds of things
can be on the agenda that, um, young
people have an opportunity to wrestle
with the various things that they're
noticing, experiencing, having to go
through that kind of thing in this
changing world, in this, um, different
kind of en- environment that we're in
harriet_2_06-01-2026_131921: å¯ã
ann_2_06-01-2026_131921: And cause
kids have questions
and concerns and, and we need to be ready
to have those conversations, don't we?
We might not have the answers,
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
Yeah
ann_2_06-01-2026_131921: we need
to have those conversations with
our kids, listen to what they're
saying and thinking and feeling
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
Absolutely.
And what happens if we get
this one out of balance?
ann_2_06-01-2026_131921: What I
think personally, we, we can try
and control things, can't we?
We wanna control, we wanna fix things.
We wanna fix mental health.
We wanna out AI.
Um, and so we canâ¦
I, I think sometimes
we can overthink things
potentially or try and solve
it,
harriet_2_06-01-2026_131921: Mm.
Or maybe try and like cocoon our children
as well, hide them away from the world.
Or, "Well, we'll just won't watch any
TV," or, "We won't use any technology."
Um, we can react in fear, I
suppose, and try to hide
them away from the world
ann_2_06-01-2026_131921: à®à®®à¯
harriet_2_06-01-2026_131921: than sort
of walk, uh, beside them to
navigate through the world
ann_2_06-01-2026_131921: Mm-hmm.
Yeah
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
Yeah, yeah.
So I mean, it sounds like you can kind
of, y- y- you know, you can either
withdraw from the world and kind of
that cocooning ide- idea, or sometimes
you might, you might just kind of go,
you know, we wanna be similar to the
world, like we're gonna capitulate
a little bit and that kind of thing.
And so either way, you're gonna,
you're gonna end up with issues.
But I think that, that helpful idea
of, of, um, helping young people to
know that they are actually kinda
living in an alien world, um, and for
that not to be a surprising thing for
them, I think can be a really helpful,
um, way to sort of approach this.
Now the last kind of part of the framework
that we wanna think about is, um, is this,
and that is the sort of eschatological
or the in light of eternity.
Um, and, um, it's not a particular chapter
in the book, and yet it is, I guess,
laced throughout a lot of the chapters.
Um, Harriet, you mentioned
in the introduction as well.
Um, what do we wanna say about,
um, that kind of lens by which
we need to think about, um, our,
our responsibility as parents?
harriet_2_06-01-2026_131921: Well, I
think e- especially when we're very
aware that we're in a fallen world
and we're grieving or something's
not turned out the way we hoped, we
need that hope of eternity, don't we?
We need to know that our future is
secure, that we belong to Jesus,
and nothing can change that.
Just as He rose from the dead, one
day we will rise from the dead too.
And, uh, sometimes, um, it's not okay.
Sometimes we're not okay.
Sometimes our kids are not okay.
Um, and for all the goodwill in
the world for putting in practice
all of the tips and solutions, all
the formulas you've tried, maybe at
the end of the day it will be hard.
Um, and we just need to keep walking, keep
walking in faith, keep walking holding
God's hand, uh, with our eyes fixed on
Jesus and just knowing that day He will
put everything right, that we, uh, are
not just parents, we're also children of
God, and nothing can change that, and one
day we will get to live with Him forever.
We pray that our children
will be there with us too.
Um, and I think just that eternal
perspective really keeps us hoping
keeps us from despairing, it's just
something to keep walking towards.
ann_2_06-01-2026_131921: And
what a blessing to be able to
share that hope with our children
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
Hmm.
Well, the other thing I think about with
the, with the keeping eternity in mind
as well is that, I mean, a lot of the
way, uh, way in which the kinda ethics
in the Christian life or, like, you
know, how do we behave in the here and
now is actually, um, derived from our
understanding of the new creation as well.
And so, um, a- when we've got a good
picture of what the new creation will
look like, that can actually inform the
way in which we go, um, about things,
in addition to tho- to those, like,
like, hope-filled ideas which, um,
both of you guys have talked about.
And I just, uhâ¦
As I, as I reflect on that and this, just
to bring it full circle, um, you know,
the creational lens and then the new
creational lens both, in some ways, help
us to rely on the sovereignty of God.
From the creational point of view,
it's that God set up this world.
He knows what He's doing.
He hasn't done it without a plan.
You know, we can trust that He has
kind of, um, done it on purpose
or done it, uh, i- in a way that,
um, you know, He understands
the good that, that will result.
But then also from the new creational,
we know where things are heading.
He's given us promises as to what
the trajectory of the world is and
what our place in it is as well.
And so I think, I mean, really, really
helpful to reflect on both of those ideas,
just to be able to trust in God and to
find hope in Him as well, um, and to
hope, h- have- find hope in Jesus, um,
that all things will be put to rights,
uh, which I'm really looking forward to.
I'm, I'm not gonna lie.
harriet_2_06-01-2026_131921: to that
ann_2_06-01-2026_131921: true
effectiveministrypodcast-host180_2_06-01-2026_131922:
yeah.
Well, um, Anne and Harriet, um, such a
great conversation just to be thinking
through these really helpful lenses, and
I really do hope that for parents that are
listening and for youth and kids ministers
that are listening, and anyone else that's
interested and happens to be listening
along the way as well, um, to be able to
think through this particular framework.
I mean, it is, it's a biblical theological
framework that we've looked at, um, just
to, just to kind of put the label on it.
Um, but a really, really helpful thing
to be thinking about, well, what does
the Bible say about this whole journey
that is, um, you know, raising kids
in the world that we live in, um,
in light of creation and in light of
the end and in light of the cross?
Um, so really, really helpful.
Thanks so much for, for
being on the podcast.
I was gonna say thanks so much for
joining us, but in some ways I joined
you, so I don't really know how to end it.
Um, but thanks.
It's been a great conversation.