IT Matters | Tech Solutions and Strategies for Every Industry

On this episode of the IT Matters Podcast, Keith and Aaron are joined by Jeff Roberts, Founder & CEO at Innovation Vista. Drawing from his extensive experience as a CIO and consultant, Jeff discusses common pitfalls organizations encounter with VCIO services and shares strategies for leveraging their potential to drive greater efficiency and success.

Conversation Highlights:
00:00 Introducing Jeff Roberts, founder and CEO of Innovation Vista
[03:54] The genesis of Innovation Vista
[05:36] Common missteps with fractional CIOs
[11:06] Building trust in consulting engagements
[24:40] A client’s IT transformation success story
[28:18] Finding the right fit for each client
[40:12] Managing risk effectively in a VCIO model

Notable Quotes:
  • "Change has never been faster than it is right now, and it'll never be this slow again." - Jeff Roberts [37:32]
  • "You have to go beyond efficiency. You really need to empower the entire business model and transform it." - Jeff Roberts [44:33]
Connect with Jeff Roberts:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robertsjeff/
Innovation Vista: https://innovationvista.com/

The IT Matters Podcast is about IT matters and matters pertaining to IT. It is produced by Opkalla, a technology advisory firm that helps their clients navigate the confusion in the technology marketplace and choose the solution that is right for their business.

Creators & Guests

AB
Host
Aaron Bock
KH
Host
Keith Hawkey
JR
Guest
Jeff Roberts

What is IT Matters | Tech Solutions and Strategies for Every Industry?

Welcome to the Opkalla IT Matters Podcast, where we discuss the important matters within IT as well as the importance of IT across different industries and responsibilities.

About Opkalla:
Opkalla helps their clients navigate the confusion in the technology marketplace and choose the technology solutions that are right for their business. They work alongside IT teams to design, procure, implement and support the most complex IT solutions without an agenda or technology bias. Opkalla was founded around the belief that IT professionals deserve better, and is guided by their core values: trust, transparency and speed. For more information, visit https://opkalla.com/ or follow them on LinkedIn

Aaron Bock: Welcome to the IT
Matters podcast hosted by

Opkalla. We're an IT advisory
firm that makes technology easy

for your business. Our vendor
neutral technology advisors work

directly with your team to
assess technology needs and

procure the best IT solutions
for your organization. On this

podcast, expect high level
expertise from our hosts, plus

experience driven perspective
from the leading experts on

topics like AI, cybersecurity
industry focused it, solutions,

strategy and more. Now let's get
into today's discussion on what

matters in IT.

Keith Hawkey: Welcome to the IT
Matters podcast hosted by

Opkalla. At Opkalla, we help IT
teams understand the busy

marketplace of technology and
strategy services with a data

driven approach. On this
podcast, we invite technology

leaders to discuss challenges
facing the modern IT department.

And of course, my name is Keith
Hawkey, Technology Advisor with

Opkalla, and we are joined by
our co host, Aaron Bock, founder

and CEO of Opkalla. Aaron, it's
been a few moons since we've

hosted together. I'm happy to
see podcasting again.

Aaron Bock: It has been a few
moons. This summer has been full

of good travel, good busyness
and lots of growth. But happy to

be back, Keith, and excited for
the conversation today. How have

you been?

Keith Hawkey: I've been very
well. We've actually done some

traveling together recently. And
I can, I can say you actually

gave me a really neat tip. And
Jeff tell me if you've

experienced this as well. But
Aaron told me that if you're

flying on a plane, the best
thing to do when you get off is

go on a little jog, go on a run
and do a workout, and you

explain some of the signs behind
it. Aaron, why exactly do we

work out after we get off of a
plane?

Aaron Bock: I am not qualified
to give you the scientific

answer, but I do know that many
people have studied it and said

that you feel better when you do
it, and you only have to do it

for five to 10 minutes. And so
with the busy schedule we have

and the amount of travel we do,
felt like it's a helpful tip. So

for those of you at home, try
it, see if it makes you feel

better. Makes me feel better, I
know that, and I made Keith do

it on the last trip, and think
it made you feel better too,

Keith.

Keith Hawkey: It did make me
feel better, until I saw how

many miles you were running and
realized that I should probably

the treadmill more often.

Aaron Bock: You got to start
somewhere.

Keith Hawkey: That's right.
Well, you know, speaking of

starting somewhere, we've a very
exciting topic today. Today we

have the legendary Jeff Roberts,
founder and CEO of Innovation

Vista, on the podcast to discuss
what companies get wrong about

VCIO services and how to best
leverage that relationship. Jeff

has served in the CIO role in
almost half a dozen

organizations over the course of
a decade, which means it's

probably safe to say he
spearheaded more than a couple

buzzword, alert, digital
transformations. Jeff, welcome

to the IT Matters podcast.

Jeff Roberts: Well, thank you. I
appreciate the invitation and

quite a build up if you're
introduced as a legend. I think

that the bar is very high for
this conversation, for sure.

Keith Hawkey: Well, to with the
amount of experience you have,

leading IT department, leading
IT strategy, I think legend is

certainly appropriate. So we're
very happy that you're able to

join us today. I guess if to
start here today, you lead a

practice that focuses on virtual
CIO services taken from your

many years leading in this area.
Can you give us a high level of

why did you start Innovation
Vista? What do you seek to

accomplish?

Jeff Roberts: Yeah, so I guess
after a career as an IT

executive, I wish it was only
one decade. It's over three

decades in total my career, but
I'm not that old, right? I

started when I was eight years
old, but for the final tenure

that I served as CIO, that
company was acquired by a large

multinational, and they were
interested in some of our

technology. And there was a
transition there where I stayed

on board to help them on board
what we had built some some

interesting AI and analytics in
particular. But during that

period, I was sort of offered
this opportunity to step back

and think about what I wanted to
do next, while I still had a

paycheck, and I took advantage
of that, and the idea of

starting a consulting practice
had been on my mind for really

five to five to 10 years before
I felt like certainly there were

other firms out there offering
fractional CIO that was the most

common sort of label at that
point, but I knew some of those

organizations, and was troubled
a little bit by the way they

went about things, and felt like
I had an idea for a different

approach that would let us make
a better match for each client

and really bring the expertise
to the table that a lot of

companies need, even when they
don't have the budget for a full

time CIO, a lot of companies are
at a size and scale that they

really need the expertise, and
someone who knows what they're

doing can really move the needle
for companies like that. So that

was the idea in the genesis of
Innovation Vista.

Keith Hawkey: I'm very
interested to hear about your

early experience with a
fractional CIO that didn't go, I

guess, as expected. What can you
share a little bit of detail

around what happened there?
What, where was the

misalignment? Any, any juicy
details?

Jeff Roberts: Yeah, and it's,
it's right in the theme of the

call here, right? Like we want
to talk about some things that

companies get wrong. What I saw
that really bothered me was the

square peg round holes were a
problem that comes with it.

Really comes from the way that a
lot of consulting firms were put

together. So you start a
consulting practice, you you go

and hire some expert
consultants, or maybe the

founder is one themselves, but
they hire a small team, and you

put them on w2 and then you go
find clients and projects to

assign them to, to keep them
busy. It makes sense. And it's,

you know, 1000s and 1000s of
instances where that's been the

pattern. And those people you
hire are probably really smart,

right? You go, you have good
criteria. You know, what makes a

good IT executive versus what
doesn't. The problem is, and the

square peg, round hole comes in,
where clients need different

things, and they operate in
different industries, and

someone who's successful in one
space or even in the same

industry, but they're successful
maybe in a company that's very

formal, you know, lots of
committees and oversight

structures, things like that.
They're not necessarily going to

succeed with a company that's
got a different culture, and

especially one that's in a
different industry, and I really

feel like, especially in the
2020s here, this has become even

more true that being an IT
executive is really about being

a business executive. It's
understanding with our business

model, where do our revenues
come from? Where do our costs

come from? What sort of
efficiencies would really move

the needle versus sort of bell
and whistle, kind of

capabilities that we need to not
waste our time on, and that

industry knowledge is critical.
So I heard, I don't want to name

any names, but I heard some
horror stories. Let's put it

that way, from both sides, from
clients of fractional CIOs who

thought they were hiring someone
really good, reputable, smart,

and they were smart, but it was
just this mismatch problem that

you know, all all of the
unspoken assumptions, all of the

lessons learned that they're
bringing to the table, maybe as

a as a hospital CIO, for
example, if they're trying to

work for a manufacturing
company, it's just different.

It's so different in ways that
you can't even put your finger

on, necessarily, to know, to you
know, have an open mind about so

they walk in the door and they
have to spend the first couple

of months learning the business,
and even after that, they don't

really get it in the same way
that someone gets it who spent

their career in that space. That
was really the key insight that

I had, is I don't want to build
a bench. I want to build a

network. I want to know really
good consultants that I could

pull in for a project. So
literally, we have never built a

bench, starting 2019 when I
founded the firm, I don't intend

to, I get told by financial
consultants and my accountant

that my margins are not what
they could be if I was willing

to do that, which I'm sure, I
have no doubt that's true,

because subcontracting is is
just more expensive than putting

someone on w2 it's the nature of
the economics of that. But I'm

not willing to make that trade,
I guess, because structuring it

like this gives me a choice.
Right now, we're over 400

consultants in the network, so I
have over 400 options I can

choose from. Whereas a firm that
has hired a couple of people for

the bench, they have whatever
two or three or one, even if

they've got one consultant
that's not billing a client,

they have that ongoing fixed
cost, they know they need to

keep that person busy and
generating billable hours. And

so guess who gets assigned the
next client that walks in the

door? So I saw that problem. I
heard about it from the

consultant side as well, where
they felt like they were set up

to fail in many ways, and the
sales team had made promises

that they weren't even aware of
or comfortable, that they could

fulfill. So starting on
Innovation Vista, I wanted to

really just start out
differently, in a way that

didn't box me into this corner
the way so many firms are.

Aaron Bock: Jeff, I hear what
you're saying, and I have heard

the same sort of sentiment from
so many different customers or

businesses along the way. I
guess, going back a little bit,

Keith mentioned, you've been a
CIO formerly, before you started

Innovation Vista, and now you're
coming in as a consultant, or

your consultants are coming in
as fractional or VCIOs. What do

you think is the hardest thing
for a VCIO or fractional CIO to

get right when they come in,
besides what you just said, the

match, and making sure they have
the experience after that, and

you've vetted that out, what is
the hardest thing for them to

do, to to make this a success?
Or, you know, where you know it

immediately isn't going to work?

Jeff Roberts: Yeah, that's great
question. I think a lot of

things running through my mind,
but I think the answer I want to

give is that they need to build
trust even more quickly than a

permanent IT executive who's
been brought in. We structure

our engagements month to month.
A lot of people do, even if

they're not, if you don't get
off on the right foot, the

likelihood that you succeed is
just extremely low. And so this

idea that you're hiring a
consultant because of their

experience, their approach,
their ideas, their wisdom, but

there's a humility that's needed
when you walk in the door to not

sort of arrive, like there's a
new sheriff in town, and you all

report to me now, by the way,
and you haven't been doing it

right. I'm here to make sure
that you start doing it right.

You know that sort of beginning
to the relationship is

impossible to make work. So I
think it's more art than

science, but that building of
trust for virtual and fractional

CIOs is even more critical. If
you come in as a new permanent

CIO, there's this idea that, all
right, the organization is

committed to this person, and we
all need to sort of make this

work. So maybe there's a little
bit more of a honeymoon period

and a little bit more of a
willingness to get to know each

other. You come in as a
consultant, you know you have to

come in and hit the ground
running, in some sense, but that

building of trust is just as
important, because without it,

you're not going to get the
straight scoop. You're not going

to get the facts about what's
really happening and what's good

and what's bad about the current
platform and processes. And when

you try to make changes, you're
not going to have people

supporting that, and you know,
they're going to find ways to

sort of undercut what you're
trying to do because they just

don't believe in it, and they
think you're maybe out for your

own glory, or out to make them
look bad so you can look good.

Whatever it is that dynamic is
just is an enormous risk. So

it's one of the things we talk a
lot about with consultants that

we're placing. And frankly, it's
a lot of the criteria that puts

a consultant in our network of
400 versus being one of the 800

plus that are not in our network
that we've concluded we would

not want to put this person in
front of a client with the name

of Innovation Vista consultant.

Aaron Bock: Yeah, that makes
sense. And I guess the second

follow up question to that is
the flip side. So I must say I'm

a business owner, or I'm a CFO.
Maybe they're all different. But

is there a standard size
business, or is there a type of

business or a point, an
inflection point, in business,

where you feel that it's a
better case for a vcio, for

people to really leverage it
correctly. What is that? And

where do you see trends?

Jeff Roberts: Yeah, I, you know,
we have helped some startups,

but I always say it needs to be
a startup with aspirations to be

50 million plus 200 people plus.
You know, it's not that we can't

help companies that are smaller
than that. It's that I worry

about the the added value that
we bring to the table, not

surpassing the amount of our
invoice every month. And you

know, there's, there's a rocket
science around fractional and

virtual executive work of how
many hours a week are we

spending, and we try to really
zero in on that for both sides,

right? The company wants that
bill to be as low as possible,

but the consultant needs the
time that they need in order to

really succeed. And I don't want
to make promises that they have

to fulfill and spend time
they're not being compensated

for. So there's this constant
sort of tension with that. And

you know, we find that if it's
an advisory engagement, you're a

sounding board, maybe with the
head of IT or the board of

directors and CEO that can be as
low as four hours a week, and

you can be affected. You're
maybe participating on a call or

two, you're doing some research
and emails in between those. But

if you're leading it like a
virtual CIO is doing, it needs

to be at least 12 and maybe, you
know, 15 to 20 hours a week,

because either you have staff,
or, more likely, you have staff

and vendor partners that you are
overseeing, and there's

collaboration with the business
executives that are there so

that that that ends up putting
the bill at a certain level. So

we find 50 million and up, 200
employees and up is the size of

organization where we really can
bring that value, where we know

we are saving them or even
helping them gain revenue more

than what we're charging them,
and they're not at a size where

it's really clear they just need
a full time CIO. And there's

sort of this sweet spot in the
middle there, from we it's

different on depending on
industry, depending on whether

they're knowledge workers, or if
you've got property, plant and

equipment sort of company, the
revenue versus knowledge worker

staff count is different. But,
you know, call it generally 50

million to about a billion or a
billion and a half on the high

end is the range where we tend
to succeed. And our clients say,

you know, we this is tremendous
for us. What other ideas do you

have? We want to extend you.

Keith Hawkey: It sounds like
you're the harmony of E harmony

and virtual CISOs, you're the
matchmaker.

Jeff Roberts: We are a
matchmaker. I get asked

sometimes, are you like a
recruiting firm? We don't do

permanent placement. That's
really the one thing that we

don't do. We sometimes have a
consultant and a client that

sort of fall in love with each
other, and the growth is there,

and they want to bring them on
board. It's totally fine, and I

don't want to stand in the way
of that, but it's not our it's

not our business model. It's on
our concept. It's all

contractual, subcontracted on
1099 like I talked about. But

the matchmaking of it's not just
industry and technical

experience, right? There's this
idea of formality and the

temperament, and in some sense,
what part of the country are you

in strange to say, but you know,
culturally that matters to some

people, they just are going to
feel a little bit more of a vibe

with the rest of the C suite,
versus being a fish out of

water. So there's a lot that
goes in, and that's why, you

know, really is as big as we can
get our network with good

consultants, the better, because
it gives us more and more

options from which we can
choose.

Keith Hawkey: It reminds me of a
CIO that I work with that came

from Los Angeles, California,
and now he works for a bank in

South Carolina. And he would
tell me that you know, in his,

in his previous life, working
for in a number of IT,

leadership roles in in on the
West Coast, in California, that

if he wasn't consistently
changing the dynamics of the

organization, of the, you know,
the technology, the people in

the process, his employees would
get bored and they would leave.

Change was a part of the the
culture in that part of the

country and and then he decides,
hey, you know, I'd like a slower

pace of life. Let's move to
small town in South Carolina,

and change is very difficult for
some in this part of the world,

and and it's it's certainly a
shock, but I could see how, if

you bring in a an IT leader
that's very used to that, that

quick, quick clip of change from
the West Coast that's going to

come to the southeast and expect
everyone to change it at their

pace, that there would be a
mismatch there.

Jeff Roberts: Absolutely.
There's so many examples like

that that I could point to. You
know, people that are used to

operating in a very agile
environment with a business

leadership that's used to that
it can seem to more formal, more

more planner, sorts of
executives that they're going by

the seat of their pants. You
know, you don't have a vision,

you don't have a strategy. And
really the truth is, they've got

probably some broad strokes, but
on purpose, they are waiting to.

Fill in some of those details
until they've put something out

for a proof of concept. They've
used it in the real world,

right? The whole agile kind of
mindset, especially around

software, you know, in other
organizations, you've got to

come with a slide deck that's 80
slides and have everything fully

baked on. How are you going to
design it? How are you going to

build it? How are
roll it out before you ever take

step one to get that budget
approved. So it's, it's all of

those sort of dynamics that I
really enjoy about the

matchmaking aspect of what I do.
And and seeing a client this

just really thrilled with the
consultant. We send them. And,

you know, I check in with with
feedback, both with the

consultant and the client, as
you can imagine, and when I hear

good things. And hey, we want to
extend them. And man, we really

seeing the value of what they're
bringing to the table. That is,

I don't know that's fun. That's
just a lot of fun for me.

Aaron Bock: You mentioned 10 to
15, 15 hours a week. You know,

I'm sure that there's some that
are on the low side, some on the

high side. But when you set
expectations, and for folks out

there that may be thinking, hey,
I need a VCIO or a fractional

CIO. How? How do you set
expectations on the how quick

you can make an impact. Is it
I'll make an impact from day one

because I have a plan, or does
it typically take three to six

months to show some of that is
working and measuring? You know,

success?

Jeff Roberts: Yeah, it's
somewhere between that,

actually. So the day one thing
is just very arrogant to believe

that you can walk in and see
something that's so obviously

wrong that you could tweak, and
there's some savings there, like

that that turns clients off,
that, you know, we're not

stupid, right? Like, I mean,
what we're doing makes sense.

There's probably a better way,
but it's going to be some amount

of analysis to find that, and
whether it's new platforms or

processes, or the structure,
vendor partners, whatever. So we

tend to say month to month, and
you will see value either

already delivered, or you will
see it on the horizon that you

know we really put the ball in
their hands to say, look, and if

you don't see it, then let us
know you you would like to

cancel and and you should
cancel, because this whole thing

is about ROI. You know, if
you're spending money with us,

Aaron Bock: I guess you sort of
hit on it, but you have a month

you need to see at least that
much, if not more, coming back

to you. And savings, revenue,
efficiency. Maybe it's

compliance that's that's a
little harder to put $1 number

on, but you know it when you see
it, and some of those are

existential risks, if you fail a
certification or fail an audit

as an organization, so they'll
know it when they see it. And

that's why we like we really
like that month to month and we

like hyping that month to month
structure, because it sets us

apart from some competitors as
well, who want you to sign up to

say, look, we need at least a
year for our person to get their

feet on the ground and for you
to see the value. And I don't

like that. I don't think it's
true first of all. And I think

it sort of sets the wrong
expectation that they might be

unhappy for a while, and then,
you know, they're going to feel

better by the time 12 months
rolls around. I'd rather them

feel good from the very
beginning. And, you know, it's,

it's not some immediate harvest
basket that we bring to them of

dollars, but there's enough
there. And they get a sense of

the thought process that when
they're up for renewing for the

second month, it should be a no
brainer, and it is for our

clients. So that's a great
question, though, and it's one

that, you know, there's a lot of
sort of preparatory work that

goes into, what are we
promising? What are our

deliverables? Sometimes it's,
you know, strategic plans,

documents, roadmaps, things like
that. And sometimes it's

leadership. And we're doing some
of that planning and analysis,

of course, to know how to lead.
But you know, is a virtual CIO

doing a good job. There's like
50 different things that go into

answering that question.

to month approach, and then you
set expectations to say, here's

how we're going to get there,
and it depends on the

organization. What's it? I mean,
you don't share names and redact

anything you want, but maybe
help us. Give us a specific

example of an organization where
you saw either quick or

relatively quick success. And
what did it relate to? Where did

it fall? How did you guys
identify it so quick?

Jeff Roberts: Yeah. So one
example jump into my mind is a

university that they had a some
drama, I guess in the IT

leadership, they had a new
executive in another part of the

organization come in. Believe it
was a CFO that had some tension

with the head of IT. They had
higher expectations. There were

problems. The rest of the
leadership team has sort of

gotten used to it, to be honest.
So IT was not what it should be,

that tension ended up blowing up
to the point where the head of

IT resigned, like unexpectedly,
I'm out of here, sort of thing.

And so we're brought in, sort of
in firefighting mode. And so

there's not, you know, I would
say it's 88% of the time when

we're brought in, we're brought
in to do an assessment and

recommendations report, and we
have a process for that, and it

takes three to four weeks, and
we deliver back something that

kind of tells them where we
think they are and what we think

that they should do. And then
from there, they often say,

that's this is great. Can we
have your help to make it happen

in a firefight? You don't have
the benefit of that. You got to

jump right in. We need someone
to grab a steering wheel. That

person is not in the building.
There's no one that we feel

comfortable knows. You know, the
six or seven areas of it, and we

have people that know their
area, but no one that can do

this. So we come in as an
interim, and our consultant does

a fantastic job of, sort of
putting out the immediate fires,

triaging the sick patients, is
how he talked about this a lot.

So there's, you know, there's
immediate surgery or this

patient's going to die. There's,
you know, hook them up to an IV,

and we need to get to them next.
And then there's okay. This over

here, it's actually okay. These
processes, these platforms, seem

workable, and nothing urgent
needs to be done. And that very

quick, professional sort of
approach. I mean, I talked about

taking a month to do that in the
firefight mode. He did that

within a week or two, very
successfully, in a way that the

leadership team saw his thought
process. You know, why is this

needing immediate surgery? And
if some of it was having to

spend money. Why are we spending
the money? What are the ways we

might spend money? Why am I
recommending this specific way?

They just really liked his
thought process, and they saw

the wisdom and the expertise
there. And that is a client

who's been a client of ours now
for over four years. Because

that interim turned into an
ongoing. You know what? We would

just love to have this person
continue to fill this role. He

likes them. They like him. You
know that that's a great sort of

success story. They're all
different, but that's an example

of one where it's it's just the
difference between someone who

knows what they're doing and has
that professional approach can

make all the difference versus,
you know, even average or

mediocre, you know, you make
some missteps, and those are

painful, and then you got a
client that says, I mean, I

don't know, it feels like maybe
we could get someone better

somewhere else, right? We want
clients to say, this is we can't

actually imagine that we could
find a better fit than this

person.

Keith Hawkey: Do you find that
some of the virtual CIOs in your

network are better suited for
those firefights and some are

better better suited for while
those long term engagements? How

do you assess that?

Jeff Roberts: Oh, wow. I mean, I
speak with all of them, and then

keep in touch with them
periodically. It's one on one

conversations, is the short
answer. So I, you know, I'm I

don't have a client in mind when
I meet these consultants, it's

more, you know, tell me about
your approach and this industry

you've worked. Tell me about,
you know, how you handle this

situation, I see this referenced
on your resume. I'm sort of

interviewing them, in some
sense, to whether they belong in

our network. And so I try to get
a sense of some of the

intangible things that are not
on the resume, some of the

leadership communication. Do
they have a backbone? If they

have a backbone, is it overdone
to the point where they might

come off as abrasive or
arrogant? Are they too much of a

pushover, where I need to think
about sort of a farmer, kind of

engagement for them? Maybe
they're really great

technically. But if we've got an
organization that needs change

and it needs the winning of
hearts and minds. That's not

going to work right? So there's
a certain temperament,

professional assertiveness, I
call it, that I can tell someone

could be diplomatic about it,
but, but they're not going to

give up. If someone says I don't
know that we're comfortable with

that. They'll just continue to
build their case. Understand

what's important to that
stakeholder. Let's work on that.

Let's let's begin to win hearts
and minds and turn ship. And

that is, it's a difficult thing,
but for those that are capable,

it's also really probably the
most satisfying thing that you

can do is a turnaround of an
organization. You know, you know

it, if you've seen it right,
it's, it's just this feeling,

you know, you walk or in the
virtual world, you talk with

people about how things are
going a year later, and you just

have this feeling like, you
know, I did that. This would

have been chaos a year ago, and
now we've got a process. People

are aligned, people are happy,
people are staying. Things are

working right. And so that's,
that's a fun, fun dynamic.

Aaron Bock: If you had to give
advice to a company that maybe

doesn't either think they can
afford a VCIO or can't afford a

VCIO. What advice would you give
them about just the way to think

about IT in general, so that
they can plan for it better?

Jeff Roberts: Yeah. So it's 2024
the digital era is here, and I

have this conversation a lot so
companies where their systems

are up and running, they're not
being hacked. They haven't had a

ransomware hit. You know, things
sent, things tend to work. I

hear that from CEOs and CFOs a
lot, and I challenge them and

say, well, is that all you want
from it? Because your

competitors are out there
thinking about how they can take

customers away from you with
their technology. They're out

there thinking about how they
can create digital products to

upsell their customers, how they
can create a capability that no

one else in your space can
match, and begin to pick off

customers one by one from
everybody else and just really

disrupt the space so it, you
know, technology has gone beyond

this utility, light switch kind
of function, enabling function,

some companies call it. That's
not what it is anymore. And

that's why we have the tagline,
innovate beyond efficiency,

because we hear so often, you
know, people that think, Oh,

we're fine. You know, our system
is actually fairly efficient.

And so I challenge that, you
know. And similarly, it's not

all about that. If that's all
you're settling for and you're

telling your head of IT, good
job, because we're efficient,

you're missing it. You're really
missing it. In 2024 you were

missing it even in 2015 by the
way, in some industries more

than others, but in 2024 it's
every industry. If you're not

thinking about AI, if you're not
thinking about you know, what

deals did we miss? What
transactions or revenue did we

miss? Where technology would
have been a difference maker,

and if your head of IT is not at
the table, even asking those

kind of questions or leading
those kind of discussions, you

have the wrong person, or maybe
they're good at what they do,

but you don't have the right
person in the room. And so yeah,

it's a hard question for
companies that have a director

of IT. For example, we see a lot
of this person's been there for

over a decade, maybe homegrown,
right? Came up from a help desk.

Everybody loves them. They know
where all the bodies are buried.

They're running everything. And
I always say that's great, but

you know what that means? They
haven't seen anything else for

the last 10 plus years, except
for your shop. I don't know if

that's great. I think it's
probably not great. So what

about the value of someone, even
as a sounding board to that

person, to expose them to what's
working for other organizations?

Other ideas, new ideas, things
that are now feasible, possible,

affordable, that were completely
impossible or impractical, even

just two, three years ago, they
need to know about that, and not

just from going to a conference
and hearing some, you know,

talking head at the podium,
someone that they're going to

hear it from, someone who's
taken the time to get familiar

with their company and Their
platform as it is, to really

know what's possible and what
the next steps might be. So our

answer is, of course, yes, there
is a size. I said earlier.

There's a size where we just
would kind of turn away, or

we'll say, look, Sign us up for
an advisory thing, and let us

just be sort of the idea person
for a while. And let's try that

for a few months, four hours a
week, very cheap, like, you

know, $1,000 a week. Think about
to bring in this next level of

expert that's been around the
block that you're trying to go

around multiple times. And let's
just see, and maybe the ideas

are valuable enough, and we size
it right, that your person can

take the ball and run with it.
And all they needed was a little

perspective. Maybe they're not
capable. Maybe they're really

strong on infrastructure and
operations, but they're they

just don't understand the
concepts around systems, data

and analytics. Maybe we need to
mentor them. Maybe we need to

supplement them in some way. Or
maybe you need us as a virtual

CIO for a very small number of
hours a week, and this director

of IT can report to them. That's
a long answer to that question,

I know, but it that's sort of
the conversations that we have

when people are skeptical that
that they need someone because

our IT is okay, our stuff works.
You know, we're not crashing. I

think we're better than than
most like, if that's all you

think it's about. You're missing
it.

Keith Hawkey: It's probably
technology and the vendors that

are in the space and the new
tech. It's only getting more and

more complicated every year that
passes. It's 2024 today. I can

imagine organizations being able
to get by easier a decade ago or

two decades ago, with the on
premises infrastructure, they're

not changing as rapidly as they
are today, but in the modern

organization, you need a dynamic
CIO who not only is great in

their own capacity, but has the
network to keep up, which is a

lot of what Opkalla does. This
is, this is what we do on a day

to day basis. We our team
engages the the marketplace of

vendors. We have over 1000 are
in our portfolio that we

evaluate, and it's a full time
job to keep up with, who's

bought, who, who's good at what,
what you know, what what

services are should we avoid for
now? How are organizations going

about their digital
transformations? What are some

stories that we can learn from?
It's it's that it's about

building that network. Like you
said, it was more and more

important today than ever
before.

Jeff Roberts: I mean, the value
of a consultant is what they've

seen and what they know, and
this fractional world really

empowers that even more, because
at the same time, they are

seeing multiple clients and
dealing with multiple

challenges, and they have some
things working really well, but

not others, and so they can
leverage those things that are

working well and lessons learned
with another client, not in the

secret sauce sort of form,
obviously, but, you know,

understanding the right tools,
vendor partners, processes,

methodologies, that that stuff
is all applicable. And you're

right when you say it's
changing. It's changing faster

than ever. It's accelerating the
pace of change, which is really

scary. And, you know, we try to
use that to encourage people to

act now, because it changes
never been faster than it is

right now, and it'll never be
this slow again. And that is,

that is a daunting but it's it's
been so true. I mean, looking

back on 2020 What a shock and
change that was. I mean, think

about 2023 2024 what's happening
with AI is more disruptive than

what happened with the pandemic
and having to close. And you

know, in some ways, because it's
the difference between survival

and failure of more
organizations. It's just It's

shocking. So if ever consulting
made sense, it makes sense in

2024 I have a biased opinion,
obviously, but I feel the same

about your services. You know,
this guidance of who should we

really be looking at and just
help, maybe on like, what are

the finalists that we should
consider for this sort of

solution? The value of that has
never been higher.

Aaron Bock: Yeah, I think, I
mean, I think the message that

both Innovation Vista would
would say to a customer and

Opkalla, you know, is, don't,
don't go at things alone. And

you know, from from talking to
you during this time, and

hopefully some of the listeners
are getting ideas, even if it's

a small engagement, just as an
idea session versus a full VCIO,

like, don't go at projects
alone. And I would say, we see

the same thing. We see people
who are taking on and it's good.

They're saying, hey, we want to
innovate. We want to transform.

Okay, great. But like you said,
if you've never done it, you've

been an organization. Where
you've never had to. Doing it on

your own can be a daunting task.
You don't need to do that.

There's folks like you out
there, there's folks like us out

there, engage and ask like
because we've seen it 100 times,

1000 times, 10,000 times. You,
you, you all too. And so just

like as children, we rely on our
parents to share, share with

their experiences of life, so
that we don't follow in the same

traps. It's the same thing in
this space. So I appreciate your

perspective. I have one final
question, and I think Keith will

wrap up here, but you know, in
the in the traditional thought

of a CIO, and I think this is
more, I would say this is more a

thought of the past, but I think
people still sometimes feel this

way. You mentioned the utility
versus the the actual business

officer, which I think it really
is, but risk is always really

interesting when you think of
the CIO role. CIOs are

responsible for systems that
have to be up cybersecurity that

has to protect and so in a
typical organization where the

CIO is there, they sometimes can
fall as a scapegoat with risk.

If it's you know, it happens.
How does risk work with VCIO?

And how do you guys handle risk
and manage risk as VCIOs for

organizations?

Jeff Roberts: Yeah, it's a great
question. And ultimately, the

VCIO versus a full time CIO is a
great answer to that question

for organizations that feel like
they have risks, they don't have

the expertise in the building to
know how to navigate them, and

so they're trying to make it
work with middle managers or

vendor relationships or what
have you. The VCIO allows you to

tap into 100% of that expertise
for a fraction of the cost. And

that's another one of our
taglines. I love that, but it's

so true because you're you're
not needing 40 hours a week of

someone's time to turn the crank
on some machine run some

process. It isn't about that.
The highest leverage functions

of an IT leader is the strategy,
the architecture, the culture,

negotiating your agreements and
setting the standard for

processes and operations. You
don't need to run it. You need

to make those key decisions in a
very wise way with your eyes

open towards the risk. To your
point, you know you don't have

to, you don't have to hit all
risks. You need to be aware of

them. And so a lot of this comes
down to that, that experience

and the awareness of the
landscape of, you know, threat

vectors on a cyber security
basis, stability. You know you

can design things like a
hospital or like NASA, if you

want triple redundancy in every
possible system and requirement,

you're going to spend an awful
lot of money doing that, though.

So understand, like a business
impact analysis, sort of mindset

of, okay, what are these risks?
What would happen if this

occurred? Really, what's the
likelihood and what's the

impact, and making a commercial
decision about those things? So

if something bad happens, and
you've gone through that

analysis, and you say, look,
that it's okay, the solution to

avoid that would have cost us
more than it's getting ready to

cost us to just go fix it so
it's all right. We made that

purposeful decision six months
ago or whenever, that makes

people feel so much better,
versus being hit with someone

being hit with something that no
one saw coming right your middle

manager or your vendor didn't
ever come to your leadership

team and say, you know you need
to be aware that there's a

certain percentage possibility
of x, and if x happens, you know

here, here's going to be your
impact. Just knowing and

navigating that, again, in a
commercial mindset, very ROI

mindset, that's another value
proposition of getting that

expertise of someone who's been
around that block. And I feel

like there are a lot of smart
people in middle management, so

I don't say middle manager is a
derogatory it just means that

they're they probably are
limited in what they've been

exposed to. You know, people
come up the IT career ladder,

generally one side or the other,
right? It's IT, and operations,

cyber security, maybe. And then
it's systems programming,

project management, data and
analysis. And that's

oversimplifying significantly.
But you know, you have a middle

manager. They're they're still
on their way up that ladder.

They know one side of it. To
some extent, they're probably

completely blind on the on the
other side of the ladder, and

that's a risk that, you know, a
lot of organizations just should

not be running. And
unfortunately they are.

Keith Hawkey: Those are wise
words, Jeff, that is, I think

that's why they call you
legendary. I'm not mistaken.

Jeff Roberts: Every day to drive
value, where people think that,

but we've got a long way to go
to where I think this thing

could be, but it's been a fun
ride so far I will say.

Keith Hawkey: We typically like
to close with a question, but I

have two questions actually to
ask you, one serious and one

less so. The first one more
serious, if you could open a

billboard everywhere in the
world and only IT leaders could

see it, what message would you
want to impart upon them?

Jeff Roberts: You know, I'm
going to go back to that theme

of it's not just about
efficiency. You got to go beyond

lights on. You got to go beyond
efficiency. You really need to

empower the entire business
model and transform it. Digital

Transformation is not just
installing video conferencing

and collaboration software. It
isn't it's re envisioning the

entire business model of an
organization in light of what is

now, recently become possible
with technology. I don't know if

that fits on a billboard. You
know? The innovate beyond

efficiency, tries to capture
that whole concept in one catch

phrase, but I it's more of a
problem with IT leaders than it

is with business leaders, and
it's the way we're trained. And

there's all kinds of reasons why
that is, but it's sad and it's

career limiting for a lot of
these very smart people that if

they just realize there's more
to it, they shouldn't be getting

an A plus grade if all they're
doing is keeping the lights on,

go in and talk to the CFO. Go in
and talk to the CRO understand

what's happening in your
organization and where IT can

move the needle.

Aaron Bock: Well, good thing is
there's digital billboards out

there now with our modern so
we'll put that on, like one of

those digital billboards where
it just scrolls, and hopefully

you're, you're stopped at a
park, light, stop light to read

it. But great, great advice. I
agree with you 100%.

Keith Hawkey: Or if we want to
target Gen Z, we'll just use

emojis.

Aaron Bock: Right. We'll convert
it.

Keith Hawkey: My less serious
question before you depart, do

you funny follow any sports
teams?

Jeff Roberts: Yeah, I live in
Houston, so we the Astros just

clinched yesterday, the the Al
West division. And Texans are

fun to watch right now as well.

Keith Hawkey: So imagine your
favorite sports team, could be a

concert, anywhere you're in a
stadium. The best venue, the

championship of this experience,
you get to go watch best seat in

the house. But there's a chance
a couple 1000 of the viewers

during this event get sucked
into a black hole. Would you go?

Jeff Roberts: Wow. What's the
chance?

Keith Hawkey: Say, 5% chance.

Jeff Roberts: Oh, five is way
too high. No, no. 1% is long.

Light life is too long of a
journey for sports to sort of

jump up to that level. I enjoy
it, but it's entertainment at

the end of the day, right? It's
not worth taking me away from my

grandchildren or being able to
see you know, two of my kids are

married, two are not yet
married. Yeah, no, nothing is

going to jump up to that level
of risking losing that.

Keith Hawkey: An all too
practical answer, Jeff. Where

can people find you?

Jeff Roberts: So our website is
innovationvista.com there's a

Contact Us form available on
every page. I'm very active on

LinkedIn as well. Post nearly
every day and really enjoy

collaborating and reading what
other people are doing. There's

so many smart people out there
that put out great content on

LinkedIn. There's some spam as
well. But yeah, there's enough

value there that I'm there
frequently. We'd love to hear

from people, anyone who just
wants to to chat. You know,

there doesn't need to be some
kind of virtual CIO engagement

in the offering. I'm happy to
have a call just to talk about

these things because I love the
topic.

Keith Hawkey: Well, that's
certainly clear. Thank you

immensely for joining the IT
Matters podcast. I certainly

learned a lot about your side of
the business, and we really

appreciate you being a guest,
and we'll add in the show notes

how to get a hold of you. So
thank you again.

Jeff Roberts: Well, thank you.
Really appreciate it. Enjoyed it

today.

Aaron Bock: Thank you for
listening, and we appreciate you

tuning into the IT Matters
Podcast. For support assessing

your technology needs, book a
call with one of our Technology

Advisors at opkalla.com. That's
opkalla.com. If you found this

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you for listening and have a

great day.