Aaron Bock: Welcome to the IT
Matters podcast hosted by
Opkalla. We're an IT advisory
firm that makes technology easy
for your business. Our vendor
neutral technology advisors work
directly with your team to
assess technology needs and
procure the best IT solutions
for your organization. On this
podcast, expect high level
expertise from our hosts, plus
experience driven perspective
from the leading experts on
topics like AI, cybersecurity
industry focused it, solutions,
strategy and more. Now let's get
into today's discussion on what
matters in IT.
Keith Hawkey: Welcome to the IT
Matters podcast hosted by
Opkalla. At Opkalla, we help IT
teams understand the busy
marketplace of technology and
strategy services with a data
driven approach. On this
podcast, we invite technology
leaders to discuss challenges
facing the modern IT department.
And of course, my name is Keith
Hawkey, Technology Advisor with
Opkalla, and we are joined by
our co host, Aaron Bock, founder
and CEO of Opkalla. Aaron, it's
been a few moons since we've
hosted together. I'm happy to
see podcasting again.
Aaron Bock: It has been a few
moons. This summer has been full
of good travel, good busyness
and lots of growth. But happy to
be back, Keith, and excited for
the conversation today. How have
you been?
Keith Hawkey: I've been very
well. We've actually done some
traveling together recently. And
I can, I can say you actually
gave me a really neat tip. And
Jeff tell me if you've
experienced this as well. But
Aaron told me that if you're
flying on a plane, the best
thing to do when you get off is
go on a little jog, go on a run
and do a workout, and you
explain some of the signs behind
it. Aaron, why exactly do we
work out after we get off of a
plane?
Aaron Bock: I am not qualified
to give you the scientific
answer, but I do know that many
people have studied it and said
that you feel better when you do
it, and you only have to do it
for five to 10 minutes. And so
with the busy schedule we have
and the amount of travel we do,
felt like it's a helpful tip. So
for those of you at home, try
it, see if it makes you feel
better. Makes me feel better, I
know that, and I made Keith do
it on the last trip, and think
it made you feel better too,
Keith.
Keith Hawkey: It did make me
feel better, until I saw how
many miles you were running and
realized that I should probably
the treadmill more often.
Aaron Bock: You got to start
somewhere.
Keith Hawkey: That's right.
Well, you know, speaking of
starting somewhere, we've a very
exciting topic today. Today we
have the legendary Jeff Roberts,
founder and CEO of Innovation
Vista, on the podcast to discuss
what companies get wrong about
VCIO services and how to best
leverage that relationship. Jeff
has served in the CIO role in
almost half a dozen
organizations over the course of
a decade, which means it's
probably safe to say he
spearheaded more than a couple
buzzword, alert, digital
transformations. Jeff, welcome
to the IT Matters podcast.
Jeff Roberts: Well, thank you. I
appreciate the invitation and
quite a build up if you're
introduced as a legend. I think
that the bar is very high for
this conversation, for sure.
Keith Hawkey: Well, to with the
amount of experience you have,
leading IT department, leading
IT strategy, I think legend is
certainly appropriate. So we're
very happy that you're able to
join us today. I guess if to
start here today, you lead a
practice that focuses on virtual
CIO services taken from your
many years leading in this area.
Can you give us a high level of
why did you start Innovation
Vista? What do you seek to
accomplish?
Jeff Roberts: Yeah, so I guess
after a career as an IT
executive, I wish it was only
one decade. It's over three
decades in total my career, but
I'm not that old, right? I
started when I was eight years
old, but for the final tenure
that I served as CIO, that
company was acquired by a large
multinational, and they were
interested in some of our
technology. And there was a
transition there where I stayed
on board to help them on board
what we had built some some
interesting AI and analytics in
particular. But during that
period, I was sort of offered
this opportunity to step back
and think about what I wanted to
do next, while I still had a
paycheck, and I took advantage
of that, and the idea of
starting a consulting practice
had been on my mind for really
five to five to 10 years before
I felt like certainly there were
other firms out there offering
fractional CIO that was the most
common sort of label at that
point, but I knew some of those
organizations, and was troubled
a little bit by the way they
went about things, and felt like
I had an idea for a different
approach that would let us make
a better match for each client
and really bring the expertise
to the table that a lot of
companies need, even when they
don't have the budget for a full
time CIO, a lot of companies are
at a size and scale that they
really need the expertise, and
someone who knows what they're
doing can really move the needle
for companies like that. So that
was the idea in the genesis of
Innovation Vista.
Keith Hawkey: I'm very
interested to hear about your
early experience with a
fractional CIO that didn't go, I
guess, as expected. What can you
share a little bit of detail
around what happened there?
What, where was the
misalignment? Any, any juicy
details?
Jeff Roberts: Yeah, and it's,
it's right in the theme of the
call here, right? Like we want
to talk about some things that
companies get wrong. What I saw
that really bothered me was the
square peg round holes were a
problem that comes with it.
Really comes from the way that a
lot of consulting firms were put
together. So you start a
consulting practice, you you go
and hire some expert
consultants, or maybe the
founder is one themselves, but
they hire a small team, and you
put them on w2 and then you go
find clients and projects to
assign them to, to keep them
busy. It makes sense. And it's,
you know, 1000s and 1000s of
instances where that's been the
pattern. And those people you
hire are probably really smart,
right? You go, you have good
criteria. You know, what makes a
good IT executive versus what
doesn't. The problem is, and the
square peg, round hole comes in,
where clients need different
things, and they operate in
different industries, and
someone who's successful in one
space or even in the same
industry, but they're successful
maybe in a company that's very
formal, you know, lots of
committees and oversight
structures, things like that.
They're not necessarily going to
succeed with a company that's
got a different culture, and
especially one that's in a
different industry, and I really
feel like, especially in the
2020s here, this has become even
more true that being an IT
executive is really about being
a business executive. It's
understanding with our business
model, where do our revenues
come from? Where do our costs
come from? What sort of
efficiencies would really move
the needle versus sort of bell
and whistle, kind of
capabilities that we need to not
waste our time on, and that
industry knowledge is critical.
So I heard, I don't want to name
any names, but I heard some
horror stories. Let's put it
that way, from both sides, from
clients of fractional CIOs who
thought they were hiring someone
really good, reputable, smart,
and they were smart, but it was
just this mismatch problem that
you know, all all of the
unspoken assumptions, all of the
lessons learned that they're
bringing to the table, maybe as
a as a hospital CIO, for
example, if they're trying to
work for a manufacturing
company, it's just different.
It's so different in ways that
you can't even put your finger
on, necessarily, to know, to you
know, have an open mind about so
they walk in the door and they
have to spend the first couple
of months learning the business,
and even after that, they don't
really get it in the same way
that someone gets it who spent
their career in that space. That
was really the key insight that
I had, is I don't want to build
a bench. I want to build a
network. I want to know really
good consultants that I could
pull in for a project. So
literally, we have never built a
bench, starting 2019 when I
founded the firm, I don't intend
to, I get told by financial
consultants and my accountant
that my margins are not what
they could be if I was willing
to do that, which I'm sure, I
have no doubt that's true,
because subcontracting is is
just more expensive than putting
someone on w2 it's the nature of
the economics of that. But I'm
not willing to make that trade,
I guess, because structuring it
like this gives me a choice.
Right now, we're over 400
consultants in the network, so I
have over 400 options I can
choose from. Whereas a firm that
has hired a couple of people for
the bench, they have whatever
two or three or one, even if
they've got one consultant
that's not billing a client,
they have that ongoing fixed
cost, they know they need to
keep that person busy and
generating billable hours. And
so guess who gets assigned the
next client that walks in the
door? So I saw that problem. I
heard about it from the
consultant side as well, where
they felt like they were set up
to fail in many ways, and the
sales team had made promises
that they weren't even aware of
or comfortable, that they could
fulfill. So starting on
Innovation Vista, I wanted to
really just start out
differently, in a way that
didn't box me into this corner
the way so many firms are.
Aaron Bock: Jeff, I hear what
you're saying, and I have heard
the same sort of sentiment from
so many different customers or
businesses along the way. I
guess, going back a little bit,
Keith mentioned, you've been a
CIO formerly, before you started
Innovation Vista, and now you're
coming in as a consultant, or
your consultants are coming in
as fractional or VCIOs. What do
you think is the hardest thing
for a VCIO or fractional CIO to
get right when they come in,
besides what you just said, the
match, and making sure they have
the experience after that, and
you've vetted that out, what is
the hardest thing for them to
do, to to make this a success?
Or, you know, where you know it
immediately isn't going to work?
Jeff Roberts: Yeah, that's great
question. I think a lot of
things running through my mind,
but I think the answer I want to
give is that they need to build
trust even more quickly than a
permanent IT executive who's
been brought in. We structure
our engagements month to month.
A lot of people do, even if
they're not, if you don't get
off on the right foot, the
likelihood that you succeed is
just extremely low. And so this
idea that you're hiring a
consultant because of their
experience, their approach,
their ideas, their wisdom, but
there's a humility that's needed
when you walk in the door to not
sort of arrive, like there's a
new sheriff in town, and you all
report to me now, by the way,
and you haven't been doing it
right. I'm here to make sure
that you start doing it right.
You know that sort of beginning
to the relationship is
impossible to make work. So I
think it's more art than
science, but that building of
trust for virtual and fractional
CIOs is even more critical. If
you come in as a new permanent
CIO, there's this idea that, all
right, the organization is
committed to this person, and we
all need to sort of make this
work. So maybe there's a little
bit more of a honeymoon period
and a little bit more of a
willingness to get to know each
other. You come in as a
consultant, you know you have to
come in and hit the ground
running, in some sense, but that
building of trust is just as
important, because without it,
you're not going to get the
straight scoop. You're not going
to get the facts about what's
really happening and what's good
and what's bad about the current
platform and processes. And when
you try to make changes, you're
not going to have people
supporting that, and you know,
they're going to find ways to
sort of undercut what you're
trying to do because they just
don't believe in it, and they
think you're maybe out for your
own glory, or out to make them
look bad so you can look good.
Whatever it is that dynamic is
just is an enormous risk. So
it's one of the things we talk a
lot about with consultants that
we're placing. And frankly, it's
a lot of the criteria that puts
a consultant in our network of
400 versus being one of the 800
plus that are not in our network
that we've concluded we would
not want to put this person in
front of a client with the name
of Innovation Vista consultant.
Aaron Bock: Yeah, that makes
sense. And I guess the second
follow up question to that is
the flip side. So I must say I'm
a business owner, or I'm a CFO.
Maybe they're all different. But
is there a standard size
business, or is there a type of
business or a point, an
inflection point, in business,
where you feel that it's a
better case for a vcio, for
people to really leverage it
correctly. What is that? And
where do you see trends?
Jeff Roberts: Yeah, I, you know,
we have helped some startups,
but I always say it needs to be
a startup with aspirations to be
50 million plus 200 people plus.
You know, it's not that we can't
help companies that are smaller
than that. It's that I worry
about the the added value that
we bring to the table, not
surpassing the amount of our
invoice every month. And you
know, there's, there's a rocket
science around fractional and
virtual executive work of how
many hours a week are we
spending, and we try to really
zero in on that for both sides,
right? The company wants that
bill to be as low as possible,
but the consultant needs the
time that they need in order to
really succeed. And I don't want
to make promises that they have
to fulfill and spend time
they're not being compensated
for. So there's this constant
sort of tension with that. And
you know, we find that if it's
an advisory engagement, you're a
sounding board, maybe with the
head of IT or the board of
directors and CEO that can be as
low as four hours a week, and
you can be affected. You're
maybe participating on a call or
two, you're doing some research
and emails in between those. But
if you're leading it like a
virtual CIO is doing, it needs
to be at least 12 and maybe, you
know, 15 to 20 hours a week,
because either you have staff,
or, more likely, you have staff
and vendor partners that you are
overseeing, and there's
collaboration with the business
executives that are there so
that that that ends up putting
the bill at a certain level. So
we find 50 million and up, 200
employees and up is the size of
organization where we really can
bring that value, where we know
we are saving them or even
helping them gain revenue more
than what we're charging them,
and they're not at a size where
it's really clear they just need
a full time CIO. And there's
sort of this sweet spot in the
middle there, from we it's
different on depending on
industry, depending on whether
they're knowledge workers, or if
you've got property, plant and
equipment sort of company, the
revenue versus knowledge worker
staff count is different. But,
you know, call it generally 50
million to about a billion or a
billion and a half on the high
end is the range where we tend
to succeed. And our clients say,
you know, we this is tremendous
for us. What other ideas do you
have? We want to extend you.
Keith Hawkey: It sounds like
you're the harmony of E harmony
and virtual CISOs, you're the
matchmaker.
Jeff Roberts: We are a
matchmaker. I get asked
sometimes, are you like a
recruiting firm? We don't do
permanent placement. That's
really the one thing that we
don't do. We sometimes have a
consultant and a client that
sort of fall in love with each
other, and the growth is there,
and they want to bring them on
board. It's totally fine, and I
don't want to stand in the way
of that, but it's not our it's
not our business model. It's on
our concept. It's all
contractual, subcontracted on
1099 like I talked about. But
the matchmaking of it's not just
industry and technical
experience, right? There's this
idea of formality and the
temperament, and in some sense,
what part of the country are you
in strange to say, but you know,
culturally that matters to some
people, they just are going to
feel a little bit more of a vibe
with the rest of the C suite,
versus being a fish out of
water. So there's a lot that
goes in, and that's why, you
know, really is as big as we can
get our network with good
consultants, the better, because
it gives us more and more
options from which we can
choose.
Keith Hawkey: It reminds me of a
CIO that I work with that came
from Los Angeles, California,
and now he works for a bank in
South Carolina. And he would
tell me that you know, in his,
in his previous life, working
for in a number of IT,
leadership roles in in on the
West Coast, in California, that
if he wasn't consistently
changing the dynamics of the
organization, of the, you know,
the technology, the people in
the process, his employees would
get bored and they would leave.
Change was a part of the the
culture in that part of the
country and and then he decides,
hey, you know, I'd like a slower
pace of life. Let's move to
small town in South Carolina,
and change is very difficult for
some in this part of the world,
and and it's it's certainly a
shock, but I could see how, if
you bring in a an IT leader
that's very used to that, that
quick, quick clip of change from
the West Coast that's going to
come to the southeast and expect
everyone to change it at their
pace, that there would be a
mismatch there.
Jeff Roberts: Absolutely.
There's so many examples like
that that I could point to. You
know, people that are used to
operating in a very agile
environment with a business
leadership that's used to that
it can seem to more formal, more
more planner, sorts of
executives that they're going by
the seat of their pants. You
know, you don't have a vision,
you don't have a strategy. And
really the truth is, they've got
probably some broad strokes, but
on purpose, they are waiting to.
Fill in some of those details
until they've put something out
for a proof of concept. They've
used it in the real world,
right? The whole agile kind of
mindset, especially around
software, you know, in other
organizations, you've got to
come with a slide deck that's 80
slides and have everything fully
baked on. How are you going to
design it? How are you going to
build it? How are
roll it out before you ever take
step one to get that budget
approved. So it's, it's all of
those sort of dynamics that I
really enjoy about the
matchmaking aspect of what I do.
And and seeing a client this
just really thrilled with the
consultant. We send them. And,
you know, I check in with with
feedback, both with the
consultant and the client, as
you can imagine, and when I hear
good things. And hey, we want to
extend them. And man, we really
seeing the value of what they're
bringing to the table. That is,
I don't know that's fun. That's
just a lot of fun for me.
Aaron Bock: You mentioned 10 to
15, 15 hours a week. You know,
I'm sure that there's some that
are on the low side, some on the
high side. But when you set
expectations, and for folks out
there that may be thinking, hey,
I need a VCIO or a fractional
CIO. How? How do you set
expectations on the how quick
you can make an impact. Is it
I'll make an impact from day one
because I have a plan, or does
it typically take three to six
months to show some of that is
working and measuring? You know,
success?
Jeff Roberts: Yeah, it's
somewhere between that,
actually. So the day one thing
is just very arrogant to believe
that you can walk in and see
something that's so obviously
wrong that you could tweak, and
there's some savings there, like
that that turns clients off,
that, you know, we're not
stupid, right? Like, I mean,
what we're doing makes sense.
There's probably a better way,
but it's going to be some amount
of analysis to find that, and
whether it's new platforms or
processes, or the structure,
vendor partners, whatever. So we
tend to say month to month, and
you will see value either
already delivered, or you will
see it on the horizon that you
know we really put the ball in
their hands to say, look, and if
you don't see it, then let us
know you you would like to
cancel and and you should
cancel, because this whole thing
is about ROI. You know, if
you're spending money with us,
Aaron Bock: I guess you sort of
hit on it, but you have a month
you need to see at least that
much, if not more, coming back
to you. And savings, revenue,
efficiency. Maybe it's
compliance that's that's a
little harder to put $1 number
on, but you know it when you see
it, and some of those are
existential risks, if you fail a
certification or fail an audit
as an organization, so they'll
know it when they see it. And
that's why we like we really
like that month to month and we
like hyping that month to month
structure, because it sets us
apart from some competitors as
well, who want you to sign up to
say, look, we need at least a
year for our person to get their
feet on the ground and for you
to see the value. And I don't
like that. I don't think it's
true first of all. And I think
it sort of sets the wrong
expectation that they might be
unhappy for a while, and then,
you know, they're going to feel
better by the time 12 months
rolls around. I'd rather them
feel good from the very
beginning. And, you know, it's,
it's not some immediate harvest
basket that we bring to them of
dollars, but there's enough
there. And they get a sense of
the thought process that when
they're up for renewing for the
second month, it should be a no
brainer, and it is for our
clients. So that's a great
question, though, and it's one
that, you know, there's a lot of
sort of preparatory work that
goes into, what are we
promising? What are our
deliverables? Sometimes it's,
you know, strategic plans,
documents, roadmaps, things like
that. And sometimes it's
leadership. And we're doing some
of that planning and analysis,
of course, to know how to lead.
But you know, is a virtual CIO
doing a good job. There's like
50 different things that go into
answering that question.
to month approach, and then you
set expectations to say, here's
how we're going to get there,
and it depends on the
organization. What's it? I mean,
you don't share names and redact
anything you want, but maybe
help us. Give us a specific
example of an organization where
you saw either quick or
relatively quick success. And
what did it relate to? Where did
it fall? How did you guys
identify it so quick?
Jeff Roberts: Yeah. So one
example jump into my mind is a
university that they had a some
drama, I guess in the IT
leadership, they had a new
executive in another part of the
organization come in. Believe it
was a CFO that had some tension
with the head of IT. They had
higher expectations. There were
problems. The rest of the
leadership team has sort of
gotten used to it, to be honest.
So IT was not what it should be,
that tension ended up blowing up
to the point where the head of
IT resigned, like unexpectedly,
I'm out of here, sort of thing.
And so we're brought in, sort of
in firefighting mode. And so
there's not, you know, I would
say it's 88% of the time when
we're brought in, we're brought
in to do an assessment and
recommendations report, and we
have a process for that, and it
takes three to four weeks, and
we deliver back something that
kind of tells them where we
think they are and what we think
that they should do. And then
from there, they often say,
that's this is great. Can we
have your help to make it happen
in a firefight? You don't have
the benefit of that. You got to
jump right in. We need someone
to grab a steering wheel. That
person is not in the building.
There's no one that we feel
comfortable knows. You know, the
six or seven areas of it, and we
have people that know their
area, but no one that can do
this. So we come in as an
interim, and our consultant does
a fantastic job of, sort of
putting out the immediate fires,
triaging the sick patients, is
how he talked about this a lot.
So there's, you know, there's
immediate surgery or this
patient's going to die. There's,
you know, hook them up to an IV,
and we need to get to them next.
And then there's okay. This over
here, it's actually okay. These
processes, these platforms, seem
workable, and nothing urgent
needs to be done. And that very
quick, professional sort of
approach. I mean, I talked about
taking a month to do that in the
firefight mode. He did that
within a week or two, very
successfully, in a way that the
leadership team saw his thought
process. You know, why is this
needing immediate surgery? And
if some of it was having to
spend money. Why are we spending
the money? What are the ways we
might spend money? Why am I
recommending this specific way?
They just really liked his
thought process, and they saw
the wisdom and the expertise
there. And that is a client
who's been a client of ours now
for over four years. Because
that interim turned into an
ongoing. You know what? We would
just love to have this person
continue to fill this role. He
likes them. They like him. You
know that that's a great sort of
success story. They're all
different, but that's an example
of one where it's it's just the
difference between someone who
knows what they're doing and has
that professional approach can
make all the difference versus,
you know, even average or
mediocre, you know, you make
some missteps, and those are
painful, and then you got a
client that says, I mean, I
don't know, it feels like maybe
we could get someone better
somewhere else, right? We want
clients to say, this is we can't
actually imagine that we could
find a better fit than this
person.
Keith Hawkey: Do you find that
some of the virtual CIOs in your
network are better suited for
those firefights and some are
better better suited for while
those long term engagements? How
do you assess that?
Jeff Roberts: Oh, wow. I mean, I
speak with all of them, and then
keep in touch with them
periodically. It's one on one
conversations, is the short
answer. So I, you know, I'm I
don't have a client in mind when
I meet these consultants, it's
more, you know, tell me about
your approach and this industry
you've worked. Tell me about,
you know, how you handle this
situation, I see this referenced
on your resume. I'm sort of
interviewing them, in some
sense, to whether they belong in
our network. And so I try to get
a sense of some of the
intangible things that are not
on the resume, some of the
leadership communication. Do
they have a backbone? If they
have a backbone, is it overdone
to the point where they might
come off as abrasive or
arrogant? Are they too much of a
pushover, where I need to think
about sort of a farmer, kind of
engagement for them? Maybe
they're really great
technically. But if we've got an
organization that needs change
and it needs the winning of
hearts and minds. That's not
going to work right? So there's
a certain temperament,
professional assertiveness, I
call it, that I can tell someone
could be diplomatic about it,
but, but they're not going to
give up. If someone says I don't
know that we're comfortable with
that. They'll just continue to
build their case. Understand
what's important to that
stakeholder. Let's work on that.
Let's let's begin to win hearts
and minds and turn ship. And
that is, it's a difficult thing,
but for those that are capable,
it's also really probably the
most satisfying thing that you
can do is a turnaround of an
organization. You know, you know
it, if you've seen it right,
it's, it's just this feeling,
you know, you walk or in the
virtual world, you talk with
people about how things are
going a year later, and you just
have this feeling like, you
know, I did that. This would
have been chaos a year ago, and
now we've got a process. People
are aligned, people are happy,
people are staying. Things are
working right. And so that's,
that's a fun, fun dynamic.
Aaron Bock: If you had to give
advice to a company that maybe
doesn't either think they can
afford a VCIO or can't afford a
VCIO. What advice would you give
them about just the way to think
about IT in general, so that
they can plan for it better?
Jeff Roberts: Yeah. So it's 2024
the digital era is here, and I
have this conversation a lot so
companies where their systems
are up and running, they're not
being hacked. They haven't had a
ransomware hit. You know, things
sent, things tend to work. I
hear that from CEOs and CFOs a
lot, and I challenge them and
say, well, is that all you want
from it? Because your
competitors are out there
thinking about how they can take
customers away from you with
their technology. They're out
there thinking about how they
can create digital products to
upsell their customers, how they
can create a capability that no
one else in your space can
match, and begin to pick off
customers one by one from
everybody else and just really
disrupt the space so it, you
know, technology has gone beyond
this utility, light switch kind
of function, enabling function,
some companies call it. That's
not what it is anymore. And
that's why we have the tagline,
innovate beyond efficiency,
because we hear so often, you
know, people that think, Oh,
we're fine. You know, our system
is actually fairly efficient.
And so I challenge that, you
know. And similarly, it's not
all about that. If that's all
you're settling for and you're
telling your head of IT, good
job, because we're efficient,
you're missing it. You're really
missing it. In 2024 you were
missing it even in 2015 by the
way, in some industries more
than others, but in 2024 it's
every industry. If you're not
thinking about AI, if you're not
thinking about you know, what
deals did we miss? What
transactions or revenue did we
miss? Where technology would
have been a difference maker,
and if your head of IT is not at
the table, even asking those
kind of questions or leading
those kind of discussions, you
have the wrong person, or maybe
they're good at what they do,
but you don't have the right
person in the room. And so yeah,
it's a hard question for
companies that have a director
of IT. For example, we see a lot
of this person's been there for
over a decade, maybe homegrown,
right? Came up from a help desk.
Everybody loves them. They know
where all the bodies are buried.
They're running everything. And
I always say that's great, but
you know what that means? They
haven't seen anything else for
the last 10 plus years, except
for your shop. I don't know if
that's great. I think it's
probably not great. So what
about the value of someone, even
as a sounding board to that
person, to expose them to what's
working for other organizations?
Other ideas, new ideas, things
that are now feasible, possible,
affordable, that were completely
impossible or impractical, even
just two, three years ago, they
need to know about that, and not
just from going to a conference
and hearing some, you know,
talking head at the podium,
someone that they're going to
hear it from, someone who's
taken the time to get familiar
with their company and Their
platform as it is, to really
know what's possible and what
the next steps might be. So our
answer is, of course, yes, there
is a size. I said earlier.
There's a size where we just
would kind of turn away, or
we'll say, look, Sign us up for
an advisory thing, and let us
just be sort of the idea person
for a while. And let's try that
for a few months, four hours a
week, very cheap, like, you
know, $1,000 a week. Think about
to bring in this next level of
expert that's been around the
block that you're trying to go
around multiple times. And let's
just see, and maybe the ideas
are valuable enough, and we size
it right, that your person can
take the ball and run with it.
And all they needed was a little
perspective. Maybe they're not
capable. Maybe they're really
strong on infrastructure and
operations, but they're they
just don't understand the
concepts around systems, data
and analytics. Maybe we need to
mentor them. Maybe we need to
supplement them in some way. Or
maybe you need us as a virtual
CIO for a very small number of
hours a week, and this director
of IT can report to them. That's
a long answer to that question,
I know, but it that's sort of
the conversations that we have
when people are skeptical that
that they need someone because
our IT is okay, our stuff works.
You know, we're not crashing. I
think we're better than than
most like, if that's all you
think it's about. You're missing
it.
Keith Hawkey: It's probably
technology and the vendors that
are in the space and the new
tech. It's only getting more and
more complicated every year that
passes. It's 2024 today. I can
imagine organizations being able
to get by easier a decade ago or
two decades ago, with the on
premises infrastructure, they're
not changing as rapidly as they
are today, but in the modern
organization, you need a dynamic
CIO who not only is great in
their own capacity, but has the
network to keep up, which is a
lot of what Opkalla does. This
is, this is what we do on a day
to day basis. We our team
engages the the marketplace of
vendors. We have over 1000 are
in our portfolio that we
evaluate, and it's a full time
job to keep up with, who's
bought, who, who's good at what,
what you know, what what
services are should we avoid for
now? How are organizations going
about their digital
transformations? What are some
stories that we can learn from?
It's it's that it's about
building that network. Like you
said, it was more and more
important today than ever
before.
Jeff Roberts: I mean, the value
of a consultant is what they've
seen and what they know, and
this fractional world really
empowers that even more, because
at the same time, they are
seeing multiple clients and
dealing with multiple
challenges, and they have some
things working really well, but
not others, and so they can
leverage those things that are
working well and lessons learned
with another client, not in the
secret sauce sort of form,
obviously, but, you know,
understanding the right tools,
vendor partners, processes,
methodologies, that that stuff
is all applicable. And you're
right when you say it's
changing. It's changing faster
than ever. It's accelerating the
pace of change, which is really
scary. And, you know, we try to
use that to encourage people to
act now, because it changes
never been faster than it is
right now, and it'll never be
this slow again. And that is,
that is a daunting but it's it's
been so true. I mean, looking
back on 2020 What a shock and
change that was. I mean, think
about 2023 2024 what's happening
with AI is more disruptive than
what happened with the pandemic
and having to close. And you
know, in some ways, because it's
the difference between survival
and failure of more
organizations. It's just It's
shocking. So if ever consulting
made sense, it makes sense in
2024 I have a biased opinion,
obviously, but I feel the same
about your services. You know,
this guidance of who should we
really be looking at and just
help, maybe on like, what are
the finalists that we should
consider for this sort of
solution? The value of that has
never been higher.
Aaron Bock: Yeah, I think, I
mean, I think the message that
both Innovation Vista would
would say to a customer and
Opkalla, you know, is, don't,
don't go at things alone. And
you know, from from talking to
you during this time, and
hopefully some of the listeners
are getting ideas, even if it's
a small engagement, just as an
idea session versus a full VCIO,
like, don't go at projects
alone. And I would say, we see
the same thing. We see people
who are taking on and it's good.
They're saying, hey, we want to
innovate. We want to transform.
Okay, great. But like you said,
if you've never done it, you've
been an organization. Where
you've never had to. Doing it on
your own can be a daunting task.
You don't need to do that.
There's folks like you out
there, there's folks like us out
there, engage and ask like
because we've seen it 100 times,
1000 times, 10,000 times. You,
you, you all too. And so just
like as children, we rely on our
parents to share, share with
their experiences of life, so
that we don't follow in the same
traps. It's the same thing in
this space. So I appreciate your
perspective. I have one final
question, and I think Keith will
wrap up here, but you know, in
the in the traditional thought
of a CIO, and I think this is
more, I would say this is more a
thought of the past, but I think
people still sometimes feel this
way. You mentioned the utility
versus the the actual business
officer, which I think it really
is, but risk is always really
interesting when you think of
the CIO role. CIOs are
responsible for systems that
have to be up cybersecurity that
has to protect and so in a
typical organization where the
CIO is there, they sometimes can
fall as a scapegoat with risk.
If it's you know, it happens.
How does risk work with VCIO?
And how do you guys handle risk
and manage risk as VCIOs for
organizations?
Jeff Roberts: Yeah, it's a great
question. And ultimately, the
VCIO versus a full time CIO is a
great answer to that question
for organizations that feel like
they have risks, they don't have
the expertise in the building to
know how to navigate them, and
so they're trying to make it
work with middle managers or
vendor relationships or what
have you. The VCIO allows you to
tap into 100% of that expertise
for a fraction of the cost. And
that's another one of our
taglines. I love that, but it's
so true because you're you're
not needing 40 hours a week of
someone's time to turn the crank
on some machine run some
process. It isn't about that.
The highest leverage functions
of an IT leader is the strategy,
the architecture, the culture,
negotiating your agreements and
setting the standard for
processes and operations. You
don't need to run it. You need
to make those key decisions in a
very wise way with your eyes
open towards the risk. To your
point, you know you don't have
to, you don't have to hit all
risks. You need to be aware of
them. And so a lot of this comes
down to that, that experience
and the awareness of the
landscape of, you know, threat
vectors on a cyber security
basis, stability. You know you
can design things like a
hospital or like NASA, if you
want triple redundancy in every
possible system and requirement,
you're going to spend an awful
lot of money doing that, though.
So understand, like a business
impact analysis, sort of mindset
of, okay, what are these risks?
What would happen if this
occurred? Really, what's the
likelihood and what's the
impact, and making a commercial
decision about those things? So
if something bad happens, and
you've gone through that
analysis, and you say, look,
that it's okay, the solution to
avoid that would have cost us
more than it's getting ready to
cost us to just go fix it so
it's all right. We made that
purposeful decision six months
ago or whenever, that makes
people feel so much better,
versus being hit with someone
being hit with something that no
one saw coming right your middle
manager or your vendor didn't
ever come to your leadership
team and say, you know you need
to be aware that there's a
certain percentage possibility
of x, and if x happens, you know
here, here's going to be your
impact. Just knowing and
navigating that, again, in a
commercial mindset, very ROI
mindset, that's another value
proposition of getting that
expertise of someone who's been
around that block. And I feel
like there are a lot of smart
people in middle management, so
I don't say middle manager is a
derogatory it just means that
they're they probably are
limited in what they've been
exposed to. You know, people
come up the IT career ladder,
generally one side or the other,
right? It's IT, and operations,
cyber security, maybe. And then
it's systems programming,
project management, data and
analysis. And that's
oversimplifying significantly.
But you know, you have a middle
manager. They're they're still
on their way up that ladder.
They know one side of it. To
some extent, they're probably
completely blind on the on the
other side of the ladder, and
that's a risk that, you know, a
lot of organizations just should
not be running. And
unfortunately they are.
Keith Hawkey: Those are wise
words, Jeff, that is, I think
that's why they call you
legendary. I'm not mistaken.
Jeff Roberts: Every day to drive
value, where people think that,
but we've got a long way to go
to where I think this thing
could be, but it's been a fun
ride so far I will say.
Keith Hawkey: We typically like
to close with a question, but I
have two questions actually to
ask you, one serious and one
less so. The first one more
serious, if you could open a
billboard everywhere in the
world and only IT leaders could
see it, what message would you
want to impart upon them?
Jeff Roberts: You know, I'm
going to go back to that theme
of it's not just about
efficiency. You got to go beyond
lights on. You got to go beyond
efficiency. You really need to
empower the entire business
model and transform it. Digital
Transformation is not just
installing video conferencing
and collaboration software. It
isn't it's re envisioning the
entire business model of an
organization in light of what is
now, recently become possible
with technology. I don't know if
that fits on a billboard. You
know? The innovate beyond
efficiency, tries to capture
that whole concept in one catch
phrase, but I it's more of a
problem with IT leaders than it
is with business leaders, and
it's the way we're trained. And
there's all kinds of reasons why
that is, but it's sad and it's
career limiting for a lot of
these very smart people that if
they just realize there's more
to it, they shouldn't be getting
an A plus grade if all they're
doing is keeping the lights on,
go in and talk to the CFO. Go in
and talk to the CRO understand
what's happening in your
organization and where IT can
move the needle.
Aaron Bock: Well, good thing is
there's digital billboards out
there now with our modern so
we'll put that on, like one of
those digital billboards where
it just scrolls, and hopefully
you're, you're stopped at a
park, light, stop light to read
it. But great, great advice. I
agree with you 100%.
Keith Hawkey: Or if we want to
target Gen Z, we'll just use
emojis.
Aaron Bock: Right. We'll convert
it.
Keith Hawkey: My less serious
question before you depart, do
you funny follow any sports
teams?
Jeff Roberts: Yeah, I live in
Houston, so we the Astros just
clinched yesterday, the the Al
West division. And Texans are
fun to watch right now as well.
Keith Hawkey: So imagine your
favorite sports team, could be a
concert, anywhere you're in a
stadium. The best venue, the
championship of this experience,
you get to go watch best seat in
the house. But there's a chance
a couple 1000 of the viewers
during this event get sucked
into a black hole. Would you go?
Jeff Roberts: Wow. What's the
chance?
Keith Hawkey: Say, 5% chance.
Jeff Roberts: Oh, five is way
too high. No, no. 1% is long.
Light life is too long of a
journey for sports to sort of
jump up to that level. I enjoy
it, but it's entertainment at
the end of the day, right? It's
not worth taking me away from my
grandchildren or being able to
see you know, two of my kids are
married, two are not yet
married. Yeah, no, nothing is
going to jump up to that level
of risking losing that.
Keith Hawkey: An all too
practical answer, Jeff. Where
can people find you?
Jeff Roberts: So our website is
innovationvista.com there's a
Contact Us form available on
every page. I'm very active on
LinkedIn as well. Post nearly
every day and really enjoy
collaborating and reading what
other people are doing. There's
so many smart people out there
that put out great content on
LinkedIn. There's some spam as
well. But yeah, there's enough
value there that I'm there
frequently. We'd love to hear
from people, anyone who just
wants to to chat. You know,
there doesn't need to be some
kind of virtual CIO engagement
in the offering. I'm happy to
have a call just to talk about
these things because I love the
topic.
Keith Hawkey: Well, that's
certainly clear. Thank you
immensely for joining the IT
Matters podcast. I certainly
learned a lot about your side of
the business, and we really
appreciate you being a guest,
and we'll add in the show notes
how to get a hold of you. So
thank you again.
Jeff Roberts: Well, thank you.
Really appreciate it. Enjoyed it
today.
Aaron Bock: Thank you for
listening, and we appreciate you
tuning into the IT Matters
Podcast. For support assessing
your technology needs, book a
call with one of our Technology
Advisors at opkalla.com. That's
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