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Luminous Voices invites you to a brilliant space where words illuminate the soul. Each episode delves into the heart of a remarkable individual, uncovering the singular, essential message they want to share with the world and with you.
From renowned theologians to everyday saints, these luminaries offer a beacon of hope, a spark of inspiration, and a glimpse of the divine. Join us on this journey as we explore the depths of the human spirit and the power of light filled words.
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Uh, we're all good.
Yeah.
Why don't you introduce yourself?
Uh, my name is Mike Peterson.
I work for Tyndale
Publishers, half for 23 years.
Do you want me to get
background on things?
Um, sure.
Or just Mike Peterson.
Now let's have a little background.
Why, why are you, what do
you know about the Bible?
A lot of people ask me
that after I'm done.
Um, no, we'll get it
outta the way first here.
Then.
I actually owned a company for
years that produced Bibles and
biblical reference tools for the
Christian publishing industry.
And at that time we also worked in ancient
manuscripts and that sort of gave me my
love for the history of the English Bible
as well as, uh, I will say at that time I
also had a heart attack, so I had to close
it all down and that's why I've been with
Tyndale now for 23 years and they allow
me to still talk on these things and it's
just been a joy to be able to do that.
Probably a little different
history than a lot of people don't
expect it to be a super in depth.
Because what we're gonna try to do
is just connect dots so we can see
how it fits throughout history.
All right.
That sounds good.
Let's start at the beginning.
What's the first dot?
Uh, I would say the first dot
would be in the first century.
Um, so don't worry about the
time we do go fast, but in 72
AD was when Jerusalem fell.
It was a tough time for the next, I
would say, 250 years with the Bible.
Although it was written, it was
just now being sent out, so a lot
of the gospels didn't get to people.
They got to the person they were
written to, but they didn't get
through to people for quite a while.
And the emperors were not happy with
people that were becoming Christians.
In fact, they determined that there was,
they would have unique ways of killing
'em if they didn't renounce their faith.
But the faith was growing so
incredibly fast during that time.
It didn't matter.
In fact, uh, it got to a point
where people were volunteering to be
martyred for their faith and which
didn't sit well with the emperors.
It was defeating their purpose.
So in three 12, they declared what was
called an act of toleration so that
they would tolerate the believers,
even though they didn't like it.
Mm-hmm.
They saw they were, it
was a losing battle.
So that's sort of the start of
things and I, I think what we see
in history is during that time, as
you could only imagine, people were.
In a time of prayer, they were
completely dependent on the Lord
for everything because of what
was happening to them as a people.
Um, then when they declared
an act of toleration, you kind
of get to a point where you're
going, well, now we're tolerated.
That's, that's better
than being persecuted.
And then I think we slide to an
area in the three hundreds when
Constantine comes into the picture.
As a Roman emperor, and he's gonna
sort of have civil war against another.
Roman emperor named Cheche had
a much larger army, and uh,
we've kind of heard the story.
Constantine has a vision
by this sign, conquer.
It's the cross.
And so he puts it on his soldiers and
lo and behold, they defeat extensus.
So we've gone from prayer supplication to.
Toleration to now all of a sudden
it's pretty cool to be a Christian.
And then a couple emperors later, a guy
named Theodosius made it the state law
that Christianity was their religion.
So back then that was a different thing.
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And then it became, uh, when
Theodosius made it, the,
the religion of all of that
area, it became a necessity.
So we have gone from, it's ridiculous
that, that it got to a point where.
And it wasn't good because now
all of a sudden you have to be a
Christian, whether you are or not.
Mm-hmm.
You are one.
Um, during that same time, uh, if you look
at the Bible, which we're gonna look at
the history of is when Jerome comes in
the late three hundreds, fourth century.
Um, he was asked by the acting leader of
the Catholic Church de Meis to please.
Put together, pull all these manuscripts
that were kind of separated during this
time and see if he can create something
that would be the Bible for him.
And he did.
He pulled everything together and
it was called the Latin Vulgate.
Um, what's amazing about that is
you think about Latin vulgate, that
was the Bible from the late three
hundreds till the reformation.
So you're talking over a thousand years.
It's the longest Bible in human history.
Yeah, it's pretty, it was pretty amazing.
The, the problem is that we're gonna
see here, and a lot of it goes back to
the history of Theodosius creating that,
that everybody was a Christian, whether
you were or weren't, a guy named Clovis
who was the head of the Frankish Empire,
uh, when he died, he left his kingdom
to all of his children, which is a mess.
It fell apart and it took years.
And when it finally comes back together,
we're talking, uh, Charles Martel,
who's really Charles the Hammer.
Um, he defeated.
This group of new group Muslims coming
through, and when he did, he became
the new king, the emperor of that area.
And at the same time, we're
talking now about 500.
Um, Rome was now fallen and Latin was
no longer the language of the day.
So only the very educated
could really read it.
Uh, somewhere between one and 3%
of people could read at that time.
So, uh, because of that, it,
it became very difficult.
And I'm gonna, I'm gonna move forward
to, we'll say after Charles Martel
died, he left it to his son, Pepin
the short, Pepin, then left it to
his son, which was, um, Charlemagne.
Um, Charles the great, and I think when
Charlemagne, it was now the Popes had come
into rule and there were some good ones.
Uh, if I ever looked at Pope Gregory
the first, the guy that created the
Gregorian Chance he was outstanding.
But the other side of it was,
I think they felt powerful.
They would like the power that they had.
And so they didn't want people to
really understand the scriptures.
Uh, it got to a point that they
realized they had the spiritual
power, but not really the might.
So that's why they brought in
people like Charlemagne, who they
said God has called you to be this
powerful person, made him feel good.
So now they kinda had their church
hired muscle, I would say it would be.
Um, so you've got.
Charm.
When he died, he made that big mistake
again, left the kingdom to all of
his children, which is probably the
darkest part in Christianity and the
development of the Bible and things.
Because when that happened, uh, is
sort of when we started realizing they
could make some pretty good money by.
Putting prices on any sin that you had.
Hmm.
Um, and a lot also would be nepotism,
where you could have family members.
Let's say for instance, uh, James,
you said you had a brother-in-law
come to you and he said, you
know what, I'm outta work.
I really like something.
He's in the educated class.
He's not a believer.
At all, but he is.
Mm-hmm.
Because by name you are,
you say, you know what?
I'm gonna make you
archbishop over this area.
It was those people that really
began to turn into a dark area.
Mm-hmm.
Because they realized how much
money they could make by not
giving people the whole truth.
And people had no way to tell if you were
telling the truth because they couldn't.
Read the Bible.
And so that's why, uh, it became so
difficult, um, to the point I think
it really showed itself strongest in
about 1000 when Hildebrand, who was,
uh, Pope, I can't remember which one.
I think it was a Gregory the II or
something against, uh, king Henry iv.
And they got in a battle basically
saying, you gotta follow me.
No, I don't.
I have the power.
And it got to a point where the
Pope says, well, they're not
gonna declare an interdiction.
Basically saying, no priest in
your area can serve communion.
We may not think that's a big
thing today, but back then, that's
how their sins were forgiven.
So you in essence, were sending everybody
to that whole territory to hell.
So King Henry VII had to beg King Henry
ViiV had to beg for forgiveness, and
finally, uh, he was excommunicated.
But I think that was probably
one of the darkest times.
Uh, then if we move forward
to when Witcliff, who is a
professor at Oxford University.
Brilliant professor.
They weren't, didn't become
professors like they do today.
Back then, you had to show that you
could debate and do well, and he did.
And he was reading one of the three copies
at Oxford of the, um, Latin Vulgate.
And as he's reading, he's going,
this isn't saying what you're saying.
It's saying, and so he says, I'd
like to turn this into English.
nobody was happy about that in the church.
but he says We're gonna do this.
So he got a group of the scholars
together and they began with scribes
putting it together into English.
And you may not think that would mean
anything because who could read it anyway?
well, the point is that for the first
time in their lives, they heard it
in their own language and when they
heard it in their own language.
It changed the world that is all
of a sudden it was making an impact
in their lives that they'd never
ever seen or heard of before.
Uh, to a point that there was
a gentleman up, um, north back
then, it was called Bohemia,
which is sort of by Prague mm-hmm.
Today, and his name was Jan Hus.
Jan Hus got ahold of a IFF bible
and it was revolutionary to him.
He began preaching it and it was
exploding on the university campus
to the point that Zigman, who was the
emperor at that time says, we'd like
you to come to the church council.
If I'm saying too much,
go ahead and just stop it.
No, this is great.
but the Gman, uh.
Uh, met, uh, with Yahu and said, look
at, can you come to the church council
and share with what you earn Mihir?
Because this is pretty incredible.
And, and Yahu said, of course I won't.
Uh, you'll kill me.
And he says, I am the emperor.
I not a handle.
Be laid on you.
and so he agreed, he went
to the church council.
What was interesting was during this time.
They didn't go after Wycliffe, really?
They, he was excommunicated.
Mm-hmm.
They, they really did hate him because
of the difference it was making.
But he died a normal death.
But I, I think we all realize sometimes
when you, when you hold his anger
inside you, it just develops in you.
It doesn't hurt anybody else.
It hurts you.
Mm-hmm.
And that happened at the church at this
time, the leadership that, uh, was so
angry that 41 years after Wycliffe had
died, they actually dug up his bones.
I.
And they crushed him and burnt him
and threw 'em in the river swift so
that no one would ever remember him
again, uh, which worked marvelously.
Um, so, so it got to the point
that now who has decided to
go to the church council?
And he shared what the difference
was and the group there says, this
is heresy, we're gonna kill you.
So.
He was put in prison.
What was interesting was during that
time, I actually found this book that was
written by a guy named Pogi, the Papist.
Um,
and he was the guy that Zigman had
given the job to, of going to get
Jan Hos and then keeping a journal of
everything that happened during this.
Time there.
And so in 1933, that book was turned
into English so we could read it.
Uh, what's amazing about that is
in that book, I'm pretty confident
that Pogi became a believer.
Hmm.
Because in the book, as he's taking
notes, he talks about how Jan Hus had
lost his teeth from rotting in the
prison cell, the water coming through.
Mm-hmm.
Which meant his nails grew
to an extraordinary length.
He was.
But he got to the point when he was
finally gonna be killed and it, it hit
me strong because as POIs was talking
about this, he says, we decide that
he was gonna be burnt at the stake.
What we understand is he was singing
and the fire would not light.
This is a guy that's there.
Mm-hmm.
Writing this, he said, and.
He w and um, Jan Hus
died of smoke inhalation.
Hmm.
And the minute he died, the fire
exploded and consumed his body.
Um, that to me is such a remarkable act of
God, uh, who did say that You can stop me.
You can kill me, but there's
nothing you can do now.
Um, I think the reason he said that
I think God had given him visions
of things, but I do know too that.
We had the invention
of the printing press.
Mm-hmm.
Um, so we're talking 1451 to 55 is when
the printing press was really brought in.
So now we have Jan Huad, but if we move
forward now the Reformation, uh, I'm
gonna talk about the English Bible.
Um.
We, I'd love to talk about Martin
Luther and some of the stuff he did,
but we know those things a lot of times.
What I wanna talk about is uh, Erasmus
was a gentleman during that time,
he was more of a Greek scholar and
he gathered all the manuscripts he
could from an area called Byzantium.
It was later called Constantinople.
Today, it's Istanbul, Turkey,
um, pulled together all the
manuscripts and made it into Greek.
We ended up calling that
the TextUs Receptus.
Um, him and Stef has put
this together, and that's the
manuscript that Martin Luther used.
It was done in 15, 16, 15, 22 is the
one that we would say that, um, Tyndale,
who knew eight languages fluently.
So he was brilliantly in fact.
We learned from David Daniels, who is
a, a scholar, a doctor from um, England,
who got his doctorate in Shakespearean
work who said that Shakespeare learned
how to write from Tyndale, from
William Tyndale, uh, William Tyndale.
Uh, what we understand at one time
he was in a group of scholars,
and I don't want this to sound
like I'm anti-Catholic church.
I'm anti.
Was happening to some of the leadership
because of the power they had.
And he was in a meeting explaining he
wanted to put the Bible into English
and somebody stood up and said, we don't
need the Bible in English as long as we
have the Pope to tell us what it means.
Uh, Dale then responded, and this
is a paraphrase, but he said, uh,
I defy the Pope in all of his laws.
And the key part of what he said was.
If the Lord allows me to live long enough,
the boy that runs the plow will know
more of scripture than you do, which
didn't go over well with the scholars.
Um, what stuck with me on that was
when he began doing it, he was not
translating the Bible for the scholar.
Mm-hmm.
He was translating the Bible for
the boy that runs the plow so that
everybody could understand it.
So that's what he set out to do.
Because of that, they began
trying to set up traps for him.
He was running from city to city.
He finished the New Testament in 1525.
One gentleman purchased almost
all of them and then burnt them
all so that nobody had had it.
We kind of think today that that was
a setup because Tyndale, because he
purchased them all, had a lot more
money and was able to do a revision.
So in 1526, he, uh, did a revision,
which there was no stopping it now.
Mm-hmm.
You've got the printing press.
They did capture him.
He did the Penit, the first five books of
the Old Testament and a few other books.
But then he was captured, put in prison,
and we have a letter from him in prison.
It said how cold it was and wish
he could get his coat and hat.
He says, and even without that,
could I get my study materials?
We don't know if he ever received it.
What we do know is that in October of
1536, um, he was burnt at the stake,
uh, strangled, burn at the stake.
We know his last words, uh, was Lord
open the eyes of the King of England.
Kind of a weird wording to have
something as your last words.
Mm-hmm.
King Henry viii.
Um, well, amazingly enough
thinking this is 1536.
In 1537, all of his workers
kept working on the Bible.
Uh, his followers, the other scholars,
and they finished it in 1537 and
it's called the Matthews Bible less
than a year after he is martyred.
Um, on the title page of that
Matthews Bible, it says, and this
hit me very strongly 'cause I was
working on a facsimile copy of it.
And when I saw the title page,
it said, set Forth with the
King's most gracious license.
Hmm.
What that said to me was
God had answered his prayer.
It was the same king Henry VIII that had
given the approval for this to be done.
Once that was done, there
was absolutely no stopping.
Then after that, if we jump to, we have
the Bishop's Bible, those things, but.
We'll say in 1560 was
probably the next greatest.
Nope, I'm not gonna say it.
I'm gonna say yeah.
1560 would be the Geneva Bible.
Okay.
Which is also called the Pilgrims
Bible because it's actually the one
we used to develop our constitution,
, the one that pilgrims brought over.
Um, and it's the very first full Bible.
It had verses, it had verses
because at the same time there
was a guy named Stefanis.
Who had created a commentary
and the only way to utilize this
commentary was to split up the
Bible into understandable segments.
So that's why the verses were included in
that and never were taken out after that.
Um, and then in 1611, we're
familiar with the King James Bible.
Probably the most famous of all.
Uh, actually the first one of
that was called the He Bible
because in Ruth three 15.
That way you'll know if you have an
original He Bible is, uh, it said he,
instead of she talking about Ruth.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, when it made the correction,
it's called the She Bible.
Um, so that was finally
what happened there.
What we have to realize is from that
point on, we today are inundated
with Bible translations and people
can walk into a bookstore today.
And kind of go, I'm outta here.
'cause they're overwhelmed.
I would pray that we'd be the
opposite, that we'd walk in
and we'd still be overwhelmed.
Mm-hmm.
But overwhelmed James, because
we have all those that are
available to us here in America.
It's not that way.
So we're kind of living in
the same time frame of when.
They said it's cool to be a Christian.
We have no one persecuting us.
So that we can say in the last
few years, yes, Bible sales
have increased 20 some percent.
Bible reading is not.
Um, so there's two things happening.
Either people are buying it as
a security blanket just in case
you know, they had covid happen.
Now let's keep it on the
shelf as a security blanket.
Or someone really wants.
To read it.
Mm-hmm.
But it, when they open it up,
it looks like a reference book.
Mm-hmm.
So I think that's gonna
be our challenge today.
Uh, our challenge today with people is
not gonna be getting 'em a Bible, it's
gonna be getting 'em to understand mm-hmm.
And want to read it.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I think, um.
I do love the history, the blood, sweat
and tears that were poured into it,
and the astounding moment of revelation
when people were first able to read it.
And I think that there's this
over familiarity without any.
Actual understanding , we've read
the back of the book and think
we've got it that everybody we
know has read the back of the book.
And so we're all just talking
about the back of the book.
It's, it's the high school English class
where nobody read the book, nobody did
the assignment, but everyone's talking
about it for the two class sessions.
Anyways.
Yeah, I, that's a, that's a great point.
And I think too, we have
to be really careful.
We, we depend a lot on pastors.
We depend on pastors to teach
us what the Bible is saying when
that's not the goal of the Bible.
Um, it is not, I would say 95% of
us, um, aren't here to learn how
to continually study the Bible.
What we need to be here to do is
read the Bible and when that happens,
um, you are the Holy Spirit does
things that you can't explain.
It'll, it'll teach you things
as you're reading this passage.
Yes, we need the teaching.
Pastors are my hero, but I also,
you and I were talking earlier,
we need a community of people
that can get together and discuss.
What you're reading, like
they did in the first century.
Mm-hmm.
When they met in the houses,
they didn't have everybody there.
They couldn't even read.
So they'd have someone read the
letter that came to 'em or the
story and they would discuss it and
say, wow, how did that impact you?
A lot of times you are mentioning
how we become so isolated.
We have we, we get to terms, we're
gonna have a quiet time, we're gonna
be by ourselves, and we're gonna study
these little nuggets called verses.
When we should be reading it as a whole
in depth, in context, and seeing how
it changes our lives and in the process
get together with other people and
see how that same word is affecting
their lives and that changes us.
Mm-hmm.
It's not an isolated event that we do.
One of the things that I.
Feel the tension of is 2000
years of history of the Bible
and the Bible is God's word.
We believe that is divinely inspired
that men and women gave their
lives to preserve this word and
to make it available to everyone.
I, and we believe that
God's word is powerful.
I, but also we see in
the Book of Acts when.
Philip comes up on the Ethiopian
eunich and asks them, do you
understand what you're reading?
And he says, how can I, unless
someone explain it to me.
And I, I feel such a tension in that
, I want people, and I want myself to
explain the Bible in all of its purity.
Like just, just the Bible.
But also, like you said, in the
community, there's been so many times
where someone, and I believe they were
brought just like Philip by the Holy
Spirit, uh, to explain something to me.
When you work in Bible publishing,
how do you navigate that tension?
It, it's hard.
It, it is hard.
I would say that's one reason why
there is multiple translations,
uh, because someone can say.
We have the best translation when
in fact words denote meaning.
And so how someone hears or reads that,
there's a lot of pressure on translators
to say, what were they saying here?
Uh, if you take translators through
history, let's, let's look at, uh,
uh, Jerome, you know, people think.
He didn't say much
about the Latin Vulgate.
Well, he did.
He wrote a letter to his, um, sort
of a senator friend, and he made the
exact statement I not only admit,
but proclaim when translating the
Greek with exception to the Bible.
I don't translate word for
word, but sense for sense.
But my critics should also realize
that while translating the Bible,
one must consider the intent and
not merely the literal words.
That is the tension that is
going on with translators.
You think of what Wycliffe
made the statement as called
the law of equivalent effect.
Um, it says the job of the
translators to have the same effect
on those reading their translation
as the original readers mm-hmm.
Had, that's a huge thing.
Mm-hmm.
If you hear what Dale said, the
boy that runs the plow mm-hmm.
Will know more of scripture than you do.
That's the job.
That's the tension.
That's gonna happen.
There are those that read a
more literal translation better.
Mm-hmm.
Because, uh, that's how they
think, that's how they process.
That's not the, the normal.
Mm-hmm.
I would say the greatest majority of
people, um, would like it laid out so
that they understand, not a paraphrase.
But a and, and I'm not gonna, and then
paraphrase this 'cause as far as devotions
and things like that, uh, I love versus in
the message, um, I, and I, I'm not gonna
mention any translations, but I am gonna
say that I think we have done a disservice
many times by pastor saying, you're gonna
use the same Bible I used in seminary.
That I learned how to parse these
words and learned how to do this.
When people look at it and go, I
didn't understand what I just read.
They're the, the euch
that was there talking.
And I, I'm thinking,
no, that's not our job.
Uh, our job is to say as shepherds,
how do you fall in love with the Bible?
The Bible is not 30,000 verses.
That is what has become.
The Bible is not a book of 30,000 verses.
It is a book of so many things.
It's a book of stories.
It's a book of letters.
It's a book of songs.
It's a book of visions.
It's a book of prophecies.
It's a, it's a book of parables.
So many things that impact lives.
Um, and what we have done is
turned it into a book of verses.
Mm-hmm.
And it allows us to easily take
it outta context and not really
fall in love with the savior.
That's where I feel we are.
So if someone wanted to stop looking
up verses to stop referencing the
Bible and start reading the Bible,
where would you suggest they start?
That's a lead in question,
I'll tell you because, um,
with, and I'm gonna bring Saddleback into
this because, um, we have found something
that impacted me when I do these, um,
talks on the history of the Bible.
The whole goal was to help people fall in
love again with what we hold in our hands.
But when I really learned that.
People still weren't reading it.
It, it was actually really discouraging.
Um, then a few years ago, somebody came
up, it was called the Institute for Bible
Reading has spent now 15 years or more
studying why aren't people reading it?
And the answer seemed to be
pretty simple and yet so profound.
It, it's kind of like when people
were reading the Purpose-Driven Life.
You'd read the book and go, uh, yeah.
He put into words what
everybody was thinking.
Um, what they said was, why don't we put
this, now they put it in the NLT, but
they said, let's take out all the chapters
numbers, let's take out all the, all the
verses and just let it be read as a story.
And then I think the genius of it.
Was that they put a history before every
book, um, put the books in an order that
could be understood and then put it like a
book club rather than saying, I, we've all
led bible studies, and when we do, you ask
a question and everybody's quiet because
they don't wanna give the wrong answer.
Pastors are the same way in a group.
What this does, it asks the
same questions every week.
One of 'em is what stood
out to you this week.
Another one is, was
there anything confusing?
Those two are two of the key questions.
I think anybody, when you read it
like a book club and get together as
a community, there's a key to, um,
if you read a section, highlight it.
Highlight it, maybe in one
color that says, this is what
stood out to me, another color
that says this was confusing.
When you get together as a group,
then you discuss what stood out to you
and what stood out for someone else.
May be completely different than
you, but that just changed your life.
What they said, what was confusing, maybe
something confusing to you was something
that made complete sense to this person.
That's why we need each other.
That's why we need community.
That's why we don't need to be silos.
Um.
That's, it's called Immerse.
It's, and it does allow you
to immerse in scripture.
Um, I, I don't wanna go further
on that because it sounds like
I'm just preaching for Tyndale.
I love Tyndale.
I've been there 23 years, but
I want people to be in the word
and I want them to understand it.
And this is a strong way to do that,
and I think God is using it profoundly.
We'll continue to do so as
long as we're faithful to him.
If there is one thing that you could have
the listener remember, one quote, one
line that when someone says, oh, what was
a podcast about, uh, what would that be?
And you can take a moment
to think about that.
I would say one thing is, I would say
one of the greatest miracles of all
time is that God has preserved his word
in spite of everything we've done to
destroy it, tried to do, to destroy it.
That is massive.
And then I would think we need to go back.
I used two statements.
The other one is what we said, the
Bible is not a book of 30,000 verses.
Think of it as a book of stories and
letters and, and so many other things.
Those are the two things I
hope people would remember.
And it's a miracle that first one is such
a picture of the cross that, um, Jesus was
dying on the cross, both because of us and
for us, and the Bible perseveres today.
Despite us and for us.
Hmm.
Amen.
All right.
Thank you very much.