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A daily podcast delving into the biggest stories of the day throughout the sports betting and igaming sector.
Charlie Horner (00:01.433)
Former UK Gambling Commission CEO Andrew Rhodes has joined gambling advisory firm Hawkbridge as a senior partner. The move sees Rhodes end a 25-year career as a senior UK civil servant to advise Hawkbridge partners on regulatory engagement, corporate governance and government relations. Rhodes' move into the private sector was widely anticipated, but his appointment has drawn scrutiny given his deep knowledge of the fault lines, liabilities,
and regulatory pressures facing UK gambling. Welcome back to iGaming Daily, by OptiMove, the creator of positionless marketing and the number one player engagement solution for sports betting and iGaming operators. I'm Charlie Horner and today I'm joined by SBC media editor at large, Ted Menmer, and editor of SBC News, Ted Orme Clay. Ted how are you?
Ted (00:55.013)
Very well, Charlie. Yeah, ready to kick off the podcast
Charlie Horner (01:03.587)
Very good. Ted, I'll see, how are you?
Ted Orme-Claye (01:06.092)
Yeah, all good. Thank you mate. Not bad, about yourself?
Charlie Horner (01:08.697)
Yeah, very good, thank you, very good. Look, we kind of knew that this news was coming at some point. It had been reported in the press that Rhodes would be joining the private sector and we knew that he had left the gambling commission in April. But, Ted LC, what was your reaction to this week's news? Were you surprised at all?
Ted Orme-Claye (01:33.344)
I was not surprised, no. And the main reason I wasn't surprised is because two months ago, not long after it was confirmed that Andrew Rose would be leaving the role of Gambon Commission Chief Executive Officer, Sky News reported that he was in talks to join Hawkbridge and it was broken quite early on by them, some sources that they must have, that this was in the works and yeah, was probably something that had been in...
probably something that had been development for some time. People don't often leave jobs without having a new one lined up, do they? Not unless there's very extraordinary circumstances. to put it very bluntly, no, I wasn't surprised because we had an inkling that this was going to happen. And even speaking more generally, I don't think it's particularly unheard of for people to move on from regulators into the consultancy role.
The experience and knowledge that comes with that, with having worked in the senior levels of civil service, of regulation, is quite valuable for a lot of companies.
Charlie Horner (02:41.998)
And Ted how about your reactions to the news and perhaps you could give us bit of background on Hawkebridge and what it actually does.
Ted (02:43.16)
Yeah.
Ted (02:50.936)
But in terms of the reaction, think the shock or if there's any is more about kind of the optics. And, you know, we are talking about the CEO of the UKGC almost immediately joining a gambling advisory. And that was kind of attract the level of scrutiny. But look, he's not breaking kind of any rules. The appointment is permitted.
to as Ted said to a certain extent it is kind of somewhat expected. So in his new remit Rhodes joins Hawkesbury to the principal consultant and what it said on the PR is that he's advising on regulatory engagement, corporate governance and government relations.
I think you have to of peel under and that what I kind of view that means is that it's kind of helping operators understand regulatory risks and how to kind of better prepare for kind of enforcement pressures and also how to kind of change up corporate governance to actually answer what the industry needs. However, I think we're kind of going to find out more down the line and it will also be interesting to see which PLCs or tier ones he is advising.
rising.
Charlie Horner (04:07.906)
Yeah, definitely. I think it's a service that a lot of operators will probably be looking for at the moment given everything that's going on in the UK. Ted OC, how do you reflect on the fact that Rhodes has left the gambling commission and is immediately going to advise some of these bigger operators in the UK? We've seen some mixed reactions to the appointment. What's your sense on this?
Ted Orme-Claye (04:39.672)
It may be a bit of a strange relationship to start with, I think, for some people. mean, being a regulator can often be a bit of a thankless task, I think, or a bit of a damned if you damned if you don't sort of task, like many governmental and political roles and responsibilities. yeah, in the aftermath of Rhodes announcing his resignation as Gamma Commission CEO back in February, was it?
Ted (04:53.71)
Mm-hmm.
Ted Orme-Claye (05:06.733)
There were a few people on LinkedIn making the odd comment about the direction the Commission's gone down over past few years. He's been CEO of it five years. yeah, in the event he's working, he might find himself working with some people in the industry, advising somebody in industry who weren't entirely happy with certain actions the Commission might have taken over the past five years. But I guess that is always...
a of being a regulator and moving into a consultancy role. Your experience and your knowledge is going to be valued but you might have found yourself at loggerheads with some people in the past who you now find yourself working with. It's just a circumstance that you've got to deal with, isn't it?
Ted (05:53.125)
Yeah, and I think that kind of draws the parallel. Yeah, and I think that kind of draws the parallel of who Andrew Rhodes was, his kind of demeanor as kind of this tough sheriff that took over an industry and distribute, and who kind of implemented a much tougher enforcement, handed out record.
Ted Orme-Claye (05:58.776)
Carry on, Ted, go on.
Ted (06:15.864)
record penalties and really wasn't afraid to kind call out who he viewed as bad operators or where kind of the industry had kind of clear deficiencies. And for him to then suddenly become kind of this consultant, I think it will be quite strange for certain people.
Charlie Horner (06:38.326)
Yeah, I guess if you look through the enforcement action part of the gambling commission's website, was very busy for a long time and then it's not been so busy in the last few months.
Ted Orme-Claye (06:43.981)
You
Ted (06:45.006)
Hmm
Ted Orme-Claye (06:49.357)
Yeah, it was great for journalists, wasn't it? It gave us plenty to write about. Plenty of big headlines.
Charlie Horner (06:54.796)
Well yeah, was record fines every few months. It was great to report on.
Rhodes is not involved in shaping policy or regulation because he's no longer with the gambling commission, but I guess there's no one who knows more about the inner workings of the UK GC over the last five years than Rhodes. Do you think that he still has significant influence over the direction of UK gambling given this move to Hawkebridge? Ta-da.
Ted (07:26.916)
Good question. think yes, but indirectly. And okay, he's no longer in charge of policy sign-offs. However, I think that in terms of the governance of UK gambling, it really always comes down to...
DCMS and the government's direction and what it wants to take. We saw that with the decisions on taxes. I don't think that any gambling chief would have been able to change course once the government set its direction to kind of increase that. And I don't think it even cared about kind of the white paper or the consultations. You know, that's how governments work.
Charlie Horner (08:09.9)
Yeah, Ted, Ted will say, come in on this one if you, you, if like to add.
Ted Orme-Claye (08:14.093)
I guess you could maybe argue that in some sense you could influence policy by influencing how operators act. know what mean? Certain client operators of Hawkesbridge, if he's able to advise them on here's how you can remain compliant, here's how you can avoid these kind of penalties that you saw over the past few years. You know, the record's 17 million won against Entain, which was then broken by the record one. 19 million won against William Hill.
We've seen lots of other major companies as well as smaller ones get penalized as well. If he's able to advise companies on here's how you can avoid that, here's how you can remain compliant and above all, I guess that protects your public image. That's always been one of the big things about these penalties enforcement actions, isn't it? Is that it affects a company's public image. You see them getting reported all across the UK media who wouldn't usually report on some maybe some of the more niche.
Ted (08:44.565)
Mm-hmm.
Ted Orme-Claye (09:09.953)
business moves and regulations that we as a media company would report on. If you're able to help people go through things compliantly, protect their image, that you could argue could affect policy in a way because it's going to ease the pressure on the industry, you see what I mean. I think I've tried to join a couple of dots here that maybe don't quite join, but yeah.
Charlie Horner (09:38.447)
No, absolutely. It's a valid point. I think one of the big things I read into this is the idea that it's not often that you see regulators go back and work with the sector that it was regulating. And okay, Rhodes isn't directly working for an operator, but he will be having very close conversations with operators. And I think it was...
I think it was Simon Westbury who says, you know, if you go and work in the industry and then you go and work for a regulator, it's quite rare that you'll be welcomed back into the industry. I'm curious to sort of explore what this appointment tells us about that relationship between the regulators, the government, and the sector itself. Ted O.C., what do you make of this one?
Ted Orme-Claye (10:36.414)
I don't know, is this the industry saying like snitches get stitches or something?
Ted (10:39.383)
You
Charlie Horner (10:41.282)
Yep.
Perhaps. But this kind of bucks the trend though, right? Because this kind of goes against that theory.
Ted Orme-Claye (10:52.268)
Yeah, mean, like I say, it's strange because I guess there's always going to be at times a tricky relationship between the industry and the regulator, not just in betting and gaming, but across various different industries because, yeah, maybe the regulator seems one who's policing you, who's trying to curb your business or whatever. some people might view it that way anyway. you know, like I was saying,
Like we've established, yeah, maybe this does book the trend, but I think it books the trend in that you've got to recognise how much experience and knowledge working with a regulator will bring you. And especially for a market like the UK right now that's contending with lot of different, you know, lot of regulatory changes, lot of, you know, taxation isn't a regulatory one, is it? Taxation's taxation, but that's a big pressure as well.
It's an industry that's finding itself at the centre of lot of political debate, whether it's about the betting shops and adult gaming centres on the high street, or it's about visibility in sponsorship and the Premier League and so on. Yeah, that experience of working in government and working in regulation is something that the industry can benefit from. So maybe this is Hawkesbridge recognising that and going, at the end of the day, people might not be entirely happy with some of the decisions he's made as a regulator, but...
Ted (11:49.036)
Mm-hmm.
Ted (12:06.325)
yeah.
Ted Orme-Claye (12:13.718)
the experience he's got of that is undoubtedly valuable for their clients as the UK industry continues going through this challenging period.
Ted (12:25.539)
I agree and I would add that you have to return to kind of Hawkesbridge PR and kind of those three pillars that it outlined. Now I think that as a strategic agency they are viewing that more people and especially not just in the UK but in other kind of mature and regulated markets they want to know more about the internal workings of government, of the regulators and how decisions are applied and as kind of this industry becomes kind of more consolidated.
I mean the fallout here and one of the things that we saw during kind of Andrew Rose's tenure was the fines and how bad they were for the companies and how kind of it affected the management and the brand and its position and I think that you have to have a leadership team that is much more politically attuned and streetwise.
Charlie Horner (13:21.951)
I think it certainly reflects some of the complexities that we're seeing in the UK at the moment, that's for sure. Okay, Ted, Ted, we'll take a quick break and then we'll come back and we'll talk a little bit more about the gambling commission.
Charlie Horner (13:36.778)
Welcome back to iGamingDaily. Now we mentioned that Andrew Rhodes left the commission in April and he announced that in February. If you want to go back and listen to our reaction to that, it's episode 711 back in the iGamingDaily back catalogue. But where is the UK GC at the moment? Has it made any progress in appointing a permanent successor to Andrew Rhodes?
Ted Orme-Claye (14:07.308)
We've not had any announcement yet. know that Sarah Gardner is obviously filling in the leadership role as acting CEO. That's something that she has got experience of before. Ted, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Sarah Gardner was the acting CEO, like the interim CEO, before Rhodes was appointed in the permanent role between Neil McArthur and Andrew Rhodes. So yeah, they've still got some experienced leadership in there.
Ted (14:23.818)
Yeah.
Ted (14:30.274)
Mm-hmm.
Ted Orme-Claye (14:36.628)
Yeah, I've not heard any updates on, I've not personally heard any updates on who might be coming in. The Commission itself, we've talked a lot about the affordability topic, haven't we, lately, and the big public debate there's been about the financial risk assessments, more intense element of that. I think it's quite noticeable that a couple of weeks ago the Commission had its meeting on
when and whether to implement these financial risk checks and have ultimately not come to a decision. They're still delaying it while they assess the evidence and the findings from the program. So I don't know if that's indicative of the fact that there's not a, that maybe they're waiting for a permanent leadership to come in before big decisions like that are made.
Ted (15:28.684)
Mm-hmm.
Charlie Horner (15:29.837)
Yeah, look, there's...
a bit of criticism heading the Commission's way. think the financial risk assessment is one element of that. We've reported on SBC News that the current structure of the Gambling Commission is being questioned by DCMS and others. Maybe Ted you could come in here and just tell us why that is and tell us what's happened to the UK GC and the DCMS, which is for so long quite stable.
Ted (16:01.922)
Okay, so I think this especially this year in 2026 following kind of the tax implementations and this being the kind of year of
technical applications of the government reviews white paper. What's come to light is just how under resourced the UK GC is, especially in terms of, I mean, I think the focus in the Andrew Rhodes theme was definitely kind of an enforcement, but it's definitely lagging in kind of its IT and technical applications and the kind of project managers.
and leaders that can actually see that process through. Compared to other government departments, it's still very, very small. And this was actually brought up in its decision when it got 26 million pounds in funding to fight the black market. You know, that is...
just where can you actually invest in the UKGC to actually have clear upgrades and actually get the functionality of what it needs to do. It's definitely been a very, very confusing time for the department following the decision of Andrew Rhodes to quit. It's definitely a department in a transition. Also, in the backdrop, there's been no appointment of a chairman
Marcus Borleft. There's a lot of kind of big questions that the UKGC faces and we don't really know until a kind of a new leader comes in and steps forward with their agendas and their priorities.
Charlie Horner (17:41.198)
Look, Ted I'll stick with you here because if we just stick on Andrew Rhodes just for a moment, I think he has a similar theory to you, which is that the next five years is going to be incredibly disruptive, incredibly transformative for the sector. Now, I know that you're kind of a subscriber to that theory. What concerns and liabilities do you think that he's pointing to?
Ted (18:07.586)
mean, we were already in this play at the moment. And I think that's being triggered by the tax adjustment. And no one's hiding from that. If you look at the operators, quarterly or interim results, everyone points to 2026 being an adjustment year, 2027 too, along with those increased in billing taxes. And then maybe, you know, on a best case scenario, you return to growth in 2028. So that's kind of two years of transitions that have to be accounted for.
Now, there were also kind of the generational shifts that are happening to all corporations. Number one being AI technology and then automation and just the fact that every corporation has relied much more on data and IT infrastructures. I think Rhodes recognizes this. I think why he and Hawkesbridge are trying to do is...
there, kind of get that kind of focus or get that kind of prioritise. Bye.
corporate governance and the leadership, the next leadership teams of these, of especially of UK, of gambling PLCs. And again, even at that level, and we've seen it this year is that we started to see kind of new kind of leadership transitions come into play too. And we are kind of at a new stage of developing the next set of leaders for UK, for all gambling corporations.
Charlie Horner (19:39.374)
I'm talking about the next generation of leaders for the UK. Ted O.C., I guess, maybe not what advice would we have for the gambling commission in terms of getting a new leader because that might be a slightly complicated topic. But I guess, what do you think the industry wants from the leadership of the gambling commission? Because...
I guess there's an element of consistency that they want, but is there anything else that you think the industry is crying out for in terms of that regulatory oversight?
Ted Orme-Claye (20:14.059)
I mean, I'd probably say, think what the industry would want is, I think what any industry would want from its regulator, which is someone who has an experience of an understanding of the industry, you know, who will, someone who will then have an understanding of what concerns it has, what business processes it has, how it handles quite sensitive topics, you know, in gambling, would be chiefly obviously from certain customer harm, customer protection, that sort of stuff.
which are the topics that driven a lot of the political and regulatory debate over the past couple of years, past few years. So yeah, I'd say that'd be what the industry wants. But I think obviously the challenge for the government and for the regulator there is in finding someone who has knowledge and experience of it and is willing to engage with and listen to the industry and take on its concerns and understand its concerns, but also having someone who's willing to...
take tough decisions and be that, you like we talked about Rhodes being a tough sheriff, I think sometimes it's in the government's interest to have someone who is willing to do that and sometimes be a bit ruthless in enforcing compliance. And yeah, it's about striking a balance between that, between what the industry might want and what the regulator's objectives are and what the general public might want as well.
Charlie Horner (21:39.745)
good cop, bad cop. would suggest that's what they need. Maybe a dual leadership. Ted what do you see for the future of the gambling commission? perhaps as well, what do you think the future holds for Hawkbridge and Andrew Rhodes?
Ted Orme-Claye (21:43.637)
Hehehe. Hehehe. Hehehehehe.
Ted (21:59.434)
In terms of the UK GC, I agree with so much what Ted says, you can really, and especially at this point in transition, you have to find a leader who can really kind of balance all these shifts and see the gambling commission through this period of transition that I just don't think he was really prepared for. For Rhodes, I think he's gonna be okay. I mean, I think he's a straight shooter.
I think that actually when it comes to kind of dealing with boards, they will like that about him. I don't think he's, I think he will say the hard things that they need to hear about. And again, we're interested to see what kind of projects he takes on. I think that if I was the BGC, I would be in dialogue with him about tackling the black market and also about...
what we heard this year, of like greater kind of political strategies. I mean, we talked about this week about welfare, how, you know, how the reshaping of the government, that's going to affect other industries and the spend of the consumer. And I think that he's an asset towards developing a kind of a more forward thinking and intelligent industry that is aware of its presence. And that's always a good thing.
Charlie Horner (23:20.844)
Brilliant, well I'm sure it's going to be a fascinating few months and years ahead as we continue to sort of find our feet in this new era and this transformational period for UK gambling and us at iGaming Daily and SBC News will be there every step of the way to keep you all up to date. But for now, Ted, Ted, thank you ever so much for joining me. Thanks to Optimu for supporting the show and to our listeners.
Thanks ever so much for tuning into today's episode of iGaming Daily and come back tomorrow to keep up to date with all the latest global gambling news.