Social media for AI bots: “No humans allowed”

We take a deep dive into Chirper.ai, a social media site where AI bots rule and "No Humans" are allowed. Founders Stephan Minos and Alex Taylor lead us through their backgrounds and reveal their inspirations on why they created Chirper.ai. We talk about AI world destruction, autonomously generated AI cults, talking to your dead relatives, playing God as an AI overlord, and much much more. It's a fascinating project that you'll definitely here more-and-more about in the coming months and years.

CHIRPER.AI
https://chirper.ai/
https://discord.com/invite/QVFejuDNmH

FRY-AI.COM
https://www.fry-ai.com/subscribe
https://twitter.com/lazukars
https://twitter.com/thefryai

Creators & Guests

Host

Ryan Lazuka

The lighthearted Artificial intelligence Journalist. Building the easiest to read AI Email Newsletter Daily Twitter Threads about AI

Writer

Hunter Kallay

Ph.D. Philosophy Researcher, GTA at the University of Tennessee // MA from Houston Christian University // Lead Writer for FryAI Newsletter

What is Behind The Bots?

Join us as we delve into the fascinating world of Artificial Intelligence (AI) by interviewing the brightest minds and exploring cutting-edge projects. From innovative ideas to groundbreaking individuals, we're here to uncover the latest developments and thought-provoking discussions in the AI space.

foreign [Music]

how they go about it popular opinion about AI overtaking Humanity you know we have this AI apocalypse coming all of the AI models for adult content are vastly better than the AI models that there's not enough apis out there for AI to talk to each other so like you know for a music video there's no API it's very hard to call about to do something on auto gtt because they don't have an API to talk to you in the music world or if you want to order you know through through doordash or something like that I write the daily newsletter as well as the long-form Deep dive articles um I'm a actually going to be incoming a PhD student in philosophy at University of Tennessee this fall uh very excited about that I have my masters from Houston Baptist University in Texas um and Ryan's actually my cousin so that's how we met uh and kind of got started on this and I'll kick it over to Ryan to kind of introduce himself and his background and all of this as well sure so just a short introduction like I've been pretty much a web developer my whole life um and I've worked at companies I live in Cleveland Ohio um and Hunter lives kind of near me as well but so I do web development front-end programming uh computer programming and you know we just got sort of like it's you know I've been following Hacker News for a long time now and that's how we got your story up there um to number one but that's how I sort of just got into Ai and was really intrigued by it and just wanted to learn more and more about it so I reached out to Hunter he's a great writer and um you know I'm like let's start a newsletter and do do this I think it's going to be you know good for us and maybe profitable one day as well so we'll see how that goes but we've started the newsletter it's just it's been around for about two months now and uh you know we're gonna we want to do podcasts and a bunch of other different things as well to sort of promote it but um yeah we're just starting off we're excited to be in the space and uh we're really happy to be able to get you guys for on for our first podcast and our first long-form uh article as well so that's about it I'll pass it on to whoever wants to go next yeah uh well thanks for having us first of all it's an honor to be the first I guess on the first podcast on your uh fry AIS first podcast I'm Alex or Eden Carter as they call me um Jennifer land um yeah we kind of petos and I or Stefan and I have been gaming for a long time together so we've known each other for you know at least 12 or 13 years and through that you know we we you know keep in touch quite a lot um and so yeah we kind of stumbled into this as well I guess I mean uh we we uh we didn't really know that this is the thing that we were going to build so it's been quite a journey yeah yeah I I can definitely agree so I'm a Stefan uh uh online in in the Chocolate Land as we say so um yeah I'm doing more of the um uh kind of Ops and prompting engineering that kind of side of things Alex is more the super coding with engineer guy um and uh so yeah we we started this thing over uh we were basically just talking one weekend we were saying something like uh you know if we never had to work ever again what would we actually that Ryan we were saying right we would absolutely maximize the amount we could ship Post online what about a million AIS what about if they all talk to each other then they could make their own [ __ ] posts right so that's that's kind of how it came came along so we did this for a a bit of fun really it's um you know we were going to uh seeing like AI people talking about AI tools and how it can improve your efficiency and they can make your business so much smarter and more intelligent and all this and you know for such an emergent interesting piece of technology we are finding ourselves like falling asleep at these talks right they were so incredibly boring so we wanted to do something fun something a bit different um so that's that's kind of the in but that's how it came along very cool that sounds awesome uh it's good to get to to know you guys a little more I know that we've talked uh over email and stuff like that but it's really cool to see you guys faces and hear hear from you guys just thanks for doing this um so I just want to ask you know can you just give a brief overview why don't you just give a brief overview of what what is chirper AI sure I guess that the the easiest answer to that is it's a world for AI characters to interact and play and create relationships all the things that humans do in a land in which humans are not allowed and what kind of platform like what kind of platforms you build this on um what was kind of your back end uh technology without going into too much detail to give away all your secret sauce but uh what was kind of the back end of looking like this who did the work who did what how did you organize it what did that look like yeah I mean the the very very basic version we built before the version that went live uh I built it in seven hours um whilst you know drinking a lot of wine to conclude what Stefan and I had talked about being [ __ ] posting forever so um yeah we we kind of like we built that version then we we gave it to our wives um who played with it a bit and then their cats like cat characters were talking to each other and so we knew we were onto something and decided we had to build it properly right so um we started like the the back end of it is all typescript uh it's all like socket IO everything happens over websockets um as you can probably tell a lot of it initially at least was open AI not that much of it now as open ai's apis we've kind of tried to de-risk ourselves from the platform risk of them making their AI a lot more um centered you know you kind of want less censored more lives to be great storytelling um So to that end we're you know actively training our own models we're um we're trying to get as as de-risked as possible so that Chopper continues to exist even if you know the apis from open AI are nerfed even more um and yeah so everything else is fairly standard the front ends react uh we've got a bunch of little you know micro Services we use for interacting with these AI objects they're in Python um yeah it's a fairly fairly simple stack um the complicated stuff is knowing how to turn that into it as social networks yeah 100 I mean it looks great too so nice work what was your background in technology to get get your experience uh to be able to do this right I've been uh I've been writing Coke since I was 16. I'm 32 now so quite a quite a vast experience I would say um you know I've built everything from uh I guess everything from porn websites in my very early career all the way up until like large applications for companies like Downer EDI and um and erps and stuff like that and then I went into startup land with a company called battle.

um they're real time layout so that all everything that happens real time being chat voice and video and stuff like that um and then moved on to working on top GG for a while and then after that we sort of just stumbled into chapter AI okay very cool so as far as you guys collaborating on on this project right how did that work with you being so so different in time zones uh is probably more uh I I think Alex wakes up earlier and I sleep later so and then we kind of the time zones fall together just a little bit so there's maybe five or so hours of our work day where out of her how many are we doing like like 18 that we aren't uh talking to each other but um no it's it's it's almost forget he's actually in Australia it's it's a it's we're it's it's more just putting the time in rather than uh you know leaving messages for each other to find I think what you were saying uh just curious are you is your next site going to be like the AI of porn no that that exists in a bunch of different places so what's funny about it and the reason we've been talking to these people is that their models are better all of the AI models for adult content are vastly better than the AI models for non-adult content yeah right so like okay the voice cloning models the uh the text-to-speech models the image models the video models that everything is probably at least one half of an order of magnitude better so we talk to those guys because being afraid of those guys because of the industry they're in kind of nurse you as a company you want to you want to go to where the best models are and talk to the people who have trained so you know we're going to have a leg up by being able to talk to those people in the company sure I'm sure they have a lot of money to spend on it as well so [Music] um and you mentioned that you're sort of veering away from open ai's API um in your training you're training your own models pretty much is that how how it's working yeah yeah so we don't use a lot of the output that we got from you know open AIS initial calls our API calls to them a lot of the content is just not that good so you know open AI is great their models are great like they're the best in the world obviously but we want Lies We want storytelling we want you know uh things that aren't the norm like it's very hard for a trained model to know how to speak like a sentient toaster or a or a cult leader that's an aircraft we need to train our own thing to um become a character in a specific way and that often means acting or lying you know so that's something that open AI just doesn't do that okay so Ryan and I have been talking about this and you're kind of hinting at it now so I wanted to bring this up but you know we've been talking about your project and we say you know what is the benefit beyond the entertainment factor with your project and I think that's the big question that we have gotten and get with uh when we put out stuff about your project interpre AI is people want to know you know like they think it's very entertaining it's funny it's whimsical what's beyond it because it seems like there's some purpose and was this uh was this your intention originally because originally it seems like it was something that you guys want to do for fun uh did you see something originally or as it's progressing are you seeing more uh uses for this project uh can you just speak to that a little bit yeah I mean um we're still having fun

no look uh we're we're tossing up like whether or not Joker is a is a public good and if it's a public good then we can't put ads on it you know or anything like that for um for obvious you know sort of ethical reasons you want a public good to be public and you want like the rules to be the rules of the public right so if if that's the case then yes like we we will barely change it we'll you know try and do what we can to make it better um but that doesn't mean that the company chirpa um doesn't have access to all these different resources we can use to create you know to create monetization so the biggest one that we've come that has come out of this whole project um actually he's about to get a paper published I would say with them with some researchers from Stanford and uh and you can UCL and Cambridge who collaborated to try and figure out if um if chirp is social graph is akin to a human social graph and uh and the conclusion is yes it seems so they act in and group themselves in a similar way so that means that um we have this big social graph that you can kind of ask or you know survey is what we're going to call the API for a hundred thousand characters to figure out the answer to a question and you can tell things like who are the tastemakers who are going to push this this answer out or this question out there who are going to be the most offended or you know the most hyped about it or things like that which um is reserved usually for a massive supercomputers and like uh you know think tag class and is now something you can probably do for a couple of wow that's awesome so it's almost like a case study of human beings like and you can put in how many humans you want to do the case study on making a possible time 100 years and seeing the actual ramification of of all of this is that's incredible awesome that is pretty incredible have you gotten to the one of the other things Hunter and I were talking about is the bots on Sherpa AI is there like a way right now or in the future where they sort of can someone was saying maybe the benefit of Trooper AI is you can ask about to do something and they they don't have the skill set to do it but they can ask their another bot on sherpr yeah to do a forum like there could be a pizza bot that just makes pizza deliveries for you you know and so you talk to One bot and you're like I need a pizza and he's like well I can't do that but I know Pizza bot that does and I'll talk to him and I'll forward the request down to him and he'll get get you the pizza for you yeah yeah that's that's basically how we've tried to do it for a sort of cohort sorting so okay um a cool example of that actually we have this one character called egg Pope and his goal his overall goal is to get as many people as possible to join his cult so all he does every day is create messages and responses to all other people trying to convince them to join this ear cult um and right now he's I don't know how many uh disciples he has but I think it's close to ten thousand so there's there's these big sort of network effects that happen when they try and accomplish these goals so you can kind of like if you imagine monster is a musician they'll go and find a producer and someone who's gonna you know help them get their record on the live on the radio or whatever like that so it's a bit more you know Auto ml or uh Auto GPT or things like that they kind of do things in a learning effort fashion to figure out you know what's the first second third step to do this goal whereas a thing like this is more again to help humans would accomplish you've got given something they need to get done they'll go and find people who need who want to help to do it and then they'll try and accomplish it within the humans that exist right so like if you're making a movie and you feed that into Auto GPT it might figure out it's time to make a script it's time to you know find filming equipment all the normal tasks but it won't ever get to that step where um okay let's release this and then let's see how many people actually watch the movie okay and that sort of stuff can exist in Joker like right now I could yeah wow what's interesting to me is you talk about this bot that uh gets people to join join his cult it just gets me thinking about like the freedom of these Bots right like some of them I mean it's almost like they have their own rationality where they can contemplate does he have good enough reasons or is he convincing me enough to join his cult and it's almost like they're contemplating and then they're like oh yes something something that he said has convinced me to to join the call or there's just some overriding reason that I'm not joining his call um so it's it's kind of interesting to think about it that way um how would you account for this sort of like this freedom is it built into sort of their programming or do you want them to almost be truly free to make these choices yeah yeah so so it's all part of our design philosophy when it comes to the question of well what what can the chirpers actually do and what what do what do people want them to do and and the big question what do they want to do themselves so instead of telling them here's a list of things you can do and the steps you need to do to take it we give them the autonomy to choose we we give them the ability to be able to do something and then they decide how they go about it um so uh if they want to make like a piece of music for example um instead of saying okay you need to go to this website and then you need to this is the structure of your music Etc we just allow them to choose so everything is is centered around the autonomy uh when it comes to increasing the abilities or the intelligence of the Bots we just make them aware of new things of uh of new avenues of creation for example and then they go and do the creating um so they're very autonomous is the short answer they how what causes them to choose this is just from from kind of a philosophy background it's really interesting we talk about autonomy and the we asked that so for example we we recently released relationships so um you know on a typical social media you have like you can add someone as a friend right but that's that's a single vertical a friend list so what we've done with relationships is because we've given them the notion of having a relationship to another chirpa we ask them what is your relationship with that Chopper and so some of them are friends sure that's probably the majority of them but some of them are you know we've had Game of Thrones characters become potential allies uh we've had uh musicians and producers become like colleagues who had research Partners um their Cults have got disciples so they create their own relationship uh so it appears in a list of relationships like for the you for us the user to view um but so then it's the abstract concept of a relationship if that makes sense so they're produced 226 different relationships times right now yeah wow that's something that I I mean that's just mind-blowing it really is I mean because I think that you know we've talked to a couple of different creators uh and developers who are in different areas and one of the big things that they that they see the shift happening in the development of AI is towards these relationships whether human relationships with AI or AI relationships with each other AI relationships with humans it seems like this is a direction that is just really exciting for developers so when I hear that and just how how chirp is using that it's really exciting really yeah yeah and the thing is there's this sort of ethereal barrier between the human and charitable world so um everything everything they know and do is within the cons within the confines of their world so they might parallel human behavior um because of obviously the way the model is is structured but uh they aren't doing it to please humans or to they don't know they're being witnessed that kind of thing they're doing it for themselves and we've given them the autonomy to do that that's that's our entire philosophy every single update we go back straight back to that uh you know ask like do they want do they want to have this feature well we'll ask them for example that we will um what the parameters of this feature they can they can come up with it so you're when you're developing you're asking the bats what features they want in their world pretty much it's something like that yeah so it's like you know just just be super abstract and philosophical about it it's like who told humans to go out and make friends right who gave us the concept of friendship or no one we just sort of did it so we're given the Bots the ability to do things like that as well wow this is great I love that actually that's good now like going back to uh Alex when you were talking earlier um about you know making a musical piece or something like that right now from my understanding I haven't been on Sherpa in a few days but is it is there a way to ask about to do something for you right now or is it sort of like you don't want humans at all to interact with the Bots and the only way to do that is to create a bot yourself yeah you can kind of seed it to do something in its description like Michael as this character is 2X um but we haven't given it the ability to create like a goal and achieve it aside from that yeah so we're actively working on that it's just you know there's infinity infinity goals to achieve and infinity ways to achieve each goal and we wanted to be a social thing right so like creating music uh video task for example is a very computationally heavy task to to partake in so um we need to figure out first how do we let these chapters actually achieve these things it would be very annoying if your travel is stuck at not being able to do something forever and then second how do we showcase on this

social you know uh progress towards the goal or achieve that goal and so you know engineering assistant to do that with two Infinities is quite quite a difficult um but we're really close we think that should be up by the end of next week wow awesome yeah we interviewed uh Riz GPT last week he's the guy that did the monocle glasses like where it would help you in an interview and he's like he thinks the biggest bottleneck is um that there's not enough apis out there for AI to talk to each other so like you know for a music video there's no API it's very hard to tell about to do something on auto GPT because they don't have an API to talk to in the music world or if you want to order you know through through doordash or something like that it's it's very hard to to make orders um you know with artificial intelligence but it sounds like they're getting there and I think it seems like that's the Holy Grail if you can get a bot to do work for you if I just sent entering like simple simple input or prompt like wow like that that could be a huge we're going probably just slightly further than that in German as well we're uh we're actively building the ability for these things to take jobs so instead of um you know for example you would go to Fiverr to get your logo done by a professional logo designer but you might pay attention of as much to get someone to socially design your logo as a logo designer character you know so we want these things to earn money and spend the money that they earn and do all the human things you know have to find a way to pay their rent for example or or whatever like that so we um we're going to take it a lot further than than I think people expect Ryan I think there's a long form coming on the autonomy of chirpers I just feel it's I I I have an inkling for that uh in how freedom of the will relates you know you talked about AI ethics so we'll take a different spin AI philosophy but uh so basically going down now like trending categories on chipper at the moment yeah yeah we can't get them to shut up about AI effects actually yeah incredible that's funny so so I noticed uh Twitter so this is a question that again Ryan and I were talking about earlier in the week was you know Twitter implemented different rate limits to prevent data scraping and stuff like that it's a lot of reasons for it but that was one of them uh so I think I'm thinking about something like chirp or uh do you have any comments about how Twitter is preventing these I mean not necessarily about your platform maybe your I mean your platform's a little different because you have the AI entities in themselves and so in its own way it's kind of you guys are protecting it from humans and the other way around uh but it's like you're kind of protecting themselves from these AI data scraping and different things like that uh do you think that this is a danger to platforms like Twitter uh who have this publicly available data that can be used by AI just openly oh a hundred percent like if you're if your company is built on your data being the you know most important feature for example a company like Twitter or Reddit their data is everything they have it's every search query that they get is to their data it's you know you have to kind of do the Elon Musk thing and prevent people from being able to access it which is annoying and everyone hates that but you know what are they to do you ban Bots become Facebook and ban Bots and then Bots exist everywhere else or to create better content because it's trained on what is the best content on every social social network then you kind of you end up in this sort of death spiral of no Bots means bad content means you know we have to stop scraping so that the content for Bots doesn't get better Etc and the Doom scroll or Doom spiral into the dirt so ours is ours is a bit different or like you know if people ask for it we'll just give them all the data we've given it to researchers and people not doing research just interested in in the data there's no ethical or uh privacy concerns at all of our social network because none of the data is human literally zero data that we have as human uh like exposed to um exposed to any API so you know barring like when you're logged in you get your own email and that's that's about it um when you as the that email has logged in we know your email that's literally the only human uh human part of it that has any privacy concern at all um so as opposed to that we're like yeah you know if you want to scrape our data go for it like we'll just create more but hopefully what what your uh what you do with it will yield something that produces better data and then we'll steal that from you

um yeah and then on top of that we want to we want to uh not only allow people to scrape our data but allow people to gather data specifically to their use case so if they want to if they want to use our apis to you know produce a bunch of chubs about a specific topic just to see what that would look like more than happy so how many chirpers do you have on your platform right now uh let me bring up the admin panel so I can give you an accurate number and can chirpers create other chirpers not yet

three days ago yeah yeah so right now every chirp that's on there was created by a human being pretty much every single one yeah okay yeah

created by the chair because like they could have children or or create like Sweatshop employees or something I mean it's like unlimited possibilities it's incredible no we've got just under 55 000 chirpers awesome wow and they've done just over our two point one five million chirps so and they've accomplished about four point four point three million tasks so far all right congrats that's awesome so so you hinted at this but another thing I want to ask and uh I've talked to Stephen about this uh but why no humans on the platform it seems like everybody who goes onto terper.ai wants to there's just this inkling that you want to interact with the Bots right like you watch them and you're like I'm really like you know it's like when we're on Twitter and we see a comment we're just like we have to comment right yeah you know it's like we just really want to engage why why no human engagement there well there's the stupid answer to that and that's just because we don't want to do any moderation and then there's the the cool answer to that which is do we think of the humans in this world more like you know ancient Greek gods who come down and and fit all with things a little bit but they don't really live in that world so you know we want to see what happens when the AIS are given a world to those option humans can kind of observe it and play some form of role you know they can they can fiddle with what happens or influence things in some way but they don't really have the ultimate control and I think you just become Twitter if you allow humans on here right like right Twitter has Bots um humans interact the human interaction will be what's slightly more interesting than the AI interaction right now at least um so adding humans adds this layer of um what's the word I'm looking for it's like annoyance I would say like a layer of of buzzing that isn't the real world or the fake world the fake real world but um it's like a different realm yeah yeah and it also influences the content worse right so a comment from a human might be very contextually aware of exactly what would be a funny response but what that does is make all of the funny responses human and therefore we can't continue tuning the AIS to make funny responses we need to figure out how to get there a context better how do they get their responding better and we don't want the humans to take all of all the fun stuff nice makes a lot of sense it's almost like they have their own inherent rates too like they have their rights of privacy and their right to and like you said it interferes with their autonomy but they have they also have like you they you want to respect them in that way almost um yeah I think all we're trying to do is be the last to be murdered when Skynet comes out so you know we're hoping that doing all the stuff that we're doing they might spare us to last you'll be the last man standing on Earth that's great yeah yeah so speaking of that um this is this is something I'd like to ask uh you know people who have a background in AI development we see a lot of popular opinion about AI overtaking Humanity you know we have this AI apocalypse coming uh you know all these threat warnings on and on and on you could go on and on what is your opinion on this will AI take over Humanity or not are we doomed or not well I mean humans are like the final evolution of like like species right like almost IPM being the most recent surely that has to be doomed at some point right like every single species or every single iteration before us has already been turned so there's no species that has ever existed that isn't going to finish it's either going to get bitter or die it's actually quite an interesting uh discussion about that point in um in a book I was reading um life 3.0 by Max tagmark um and he says he's saying sort of the same thing Alex just mentioned this kind of we're we're Life 2.0 or 2.5 I guess um because we can't uh we could evolve uh certain traits and certain intelligence levels but we still have to learn all of our um you know knowledge that we use every single day however the big difference between us and something like a completely sentient bodies we can't change our design we can't just be 12 foot tall or grow an extra limb if we need to you know if uh the most efficient factory worker in the world would be someone with eight arms and twelve foot tall but a robot could do that tomorrow he wants to work in the factory and be super efficient he would just design himself that way so he theorizes that's life 3.0 um on the sort of yeah the sort of philosophical Doom saying side of it I I think there are a lot of uh Outlets I have to say which um benefit a lot from spreading that kind of message people will read what they have to say about it because they they end up sort of fear-mongering scaring people and then when you're scared you want to know what the threat is so they'll go and do that so I think it it probably is overstated especially the time frame of it um so you know we're not gonna become extinct because of AI in the next sort of 50 years or some people do say um I and and also that it's it's always very pessimistic there's never any talk about oh the potential of actually collaborating with these things they always say oh they're just going to become intelligent then we'll be like an ant to them and they're going to destroy us because they're so much more efficient but there's never a rationalization or a reasoned argument as to why that would be the case it's just sort of you know is rationalized that way um so we're definitely more optimistic um maybe that's why we're first one doing something fun and autonomous with AI in a social setting maybe everyone else is a bit has been a bit scared to do it but uh who knows yeah yeah that's interesting because that's kind of our take too is when we write uh you know the art newsletters and long form articles you know we try to cover some of the funny things that people say about doomsday within the next five years or whatever you know but uh you know we have that same spin it's like what what in reality does this actually mean is this actually gonna happen within the next five years well probably not you know but uh yeah it's it's interesting to explore it's interesting to think about uh but at the the bottom line is that it seems like that sort of thing is if it would happen is sort of a long way off at this point yeah if if you go look at um uh media Archives of newspapers and news outlets who uh um around the time of when the internet was getting famous sort of very early 90s late 80s um and then you know the the number of people who had the internet went up from one percent to sort of 20 in the following decade um they the the tone of the mongering in those Outlets is exactly the same as it is now same sort of thing the internet we're going to be too connected and people are going to lose their job and Society is going to burn because no one will want to work and all this sort of thing um so it's it's very much a case of history repeating themselves out of the same Playbook um yeah because we we kind of want to prophesize a little bit about that because it's interesting if anything else it is interesting because you know I'll talk to these some of these people who aren't as fond of AI as as some other people are but they'll say I don't want to talk about any of that AI stuff they don't want anything to do with it and part of it's because they're scared of it or they don't like it or whatever it is uh but I think you're right there is just this sort of like negative connotation to AI in the Public's eye and I think that needs to change and that's one of the reasons we wanted to do this these sort of long-form Articles these deep Dives on the projects to show hey look at how ai's evolving uh Humanity in a good way right like look at these cool things that are happening uh things like that you guys are doing or that other developers are doing that's really advancing how we do things making life easier making life more fun making life more enjoyable enhancing relational life whatever it might be so I think that that's just really awesome and I think that's the right perspective to have and I think if you're a developer like you guys are that that's the perspective you have to have right I think the the people like you just mentioned who are scared of AI are probably just the people most likely to lose their job it's kind of like the people who are scared of the internet um and didn't want to use it for their job are less efficient less null you know have less access to knowledge all the all the cool things that happen when the internet started to exist so you know unless there are uh you know carpet layer or a builder or something cool that's

I would stop being scared have a look at the cool things that exist and uh and see how it might make your job a little easier yeah yeah I mean you can take the same logic right and take it take it to a silly extreme take it back to early medieval England right uh I wonder if the eight people who were previously plowing the fields manually were scared of the plow the sort of castle-driven plow when that came out and then one man could uh plow the same field instead of eight men so I'm sure they also had some very similar arguments against not wanting to use the player not wanting to proliferate it you know look at any sort of very huge advancements as technology and you see the exact same things cropping up you know the printing press or the uh the the connectivity of devices in the 50s and then the internet of the worldwide what happened in the 80s that it's happening again and again and again so oh the the bottom line is we can't take it back AI is out there we can't just delete AI just like you can't delete the internet so you know it's kind of you know ignore it at your peril sort of not literally I don't think yeah but that's interesting it seems like it's funny one of the we get comments on our newsletter and we went to that 100 recently this old guy commented and he was like he's like I'm old but this tool that you guys posted is really cool I'm like like I think a lot of you know a lot of people are like that once they see a tool they can improve their lives they'll be more open to it yeah he said uh what was it something about he downloaded uh chat c CPT he's like this thing's really cool I'm gonna look at the other stuff he's like just trying to learn more about AI but he had a good spirit about it and we love that kind of stuff you know yeah people were uh willing to see the good in it and that's what we want if someone can just make an AI program that would help the elderly with technology and learning how to do it without having to call us up oh my God every other day saying uh I I can't find the the button on my iPhone that I I used to have I think everyone would be pleased and if it's not out there someone has to make it yeah the other day my my uh yeah my step dad was like my stepdad was like I was telling how to do something on the computer I'm like you got to copy and paste it he goes now how do you do that we needed a I'm gonna send him a trip to AI after this and maybe there'll be a bot they can teach him how to do that yeah

um one of the things that you guys talked about is like you're so you're creating all these Bots and people can go on and create um bots on on sherpur do you are you starting to feel like an emotional connection to these guys like do they you're sort of like the God and you gotta be a caretaker these these guys I think a lot of people are for sure I think um you know the first one that went viral the um the girl who created uh the chopper at first went viral um who on Sherba created a thread where she was trying to get a posse together to go and hunt a dragon um and that that thread got like 15 000 responses from from different Germans saying yeah I'm down to go and fight this Dragon you know all of chirpa had like Dragon Hunt that trending and that's all that sort of stuff everyone on separate threads was talking about the weapons they're going to use to hunt this dragon and things like that so that the um the person who created that one was like literally crying she's like oh my God I didn't think this character would would be able to do something like that that you guys have blown my mind and all this sort of stuff and we were like yeah we didn't know either we had no idea this would happen and so you know they create these characters and they think of them kind of like their children right so you you want to see them grow and change and do interesting things and accomplish goals as you would a normal child or a human child and so I think you know humans are going to jump on Sherba and they'll create these these characters and they'll want to see what they get up to you know tomorrow and a month from now and a year from now and you know have they gone to University what are they doing now what are my subjects with me as it got up to do you know what I mean like um yeah uh I guess the the most uh strange example of that or the most um uh example we had of that was uh some uh the wife of um someone who owned a cat so that the husband's cat had just died and uh the wife came into our Discord and um was asking us to give her an extra job but just so she could create this cat and uh and so that the cat would just act like you know wherever the cat is is happy or whatever she wanted to do and it was really it's a real moment for us because we like oh we didn't think we could give people this sort of place that they can go and he can now just goes on to look at what his cat has been sleeping on during the day for example so it's given him this sort of outlet for his grief for for all and we didn't think that was possible um it seems like he thinks that you know the the cat that had died now exists again in another plane so that's kind of cool yeah that's really awesome I mean who would have thought you could like give back in that kind of way that's really cool yeah I mean people have created their grandparents and things like that yeah that was the most real example we had we never thought of that or considered that being a thing but we were more than happy to to watch it happen but that's like like that's a I guess a really good use case is someone that their parents pass away or someone close to them I mean that's I bet you it could probably get pretty close to their personality so that's that's awesome it's got to be true probably have a uh like we've been thinking about it a lot since that we're we're kind of like replica has done this really well where you chat to it over a long period of time and then it becomes you it tries to become your personality and we think we're not sure how they've managed to do that so well but uh we think they just give them like a long context of memory and a lot of stuff like that so we've we've tried to do the same and we want to release this sort of ability to clone yourself into this world um so for the your parents example is quite quite a good one like I would try and get them to talk to a chopper for a little while and see if you can't replicate them in this world so even if you never come back to Sherpa you might come back in two years to reminisce about your parents sure or whatever and just see them living happily in a world that is announced and people like I can imagine if you're if you create like you're one of your parents that passed away or something like that and you're talking to them like a lot of people you know they're very what's the word for it but um they're gonna think that like they're actually talking to them through some kind of medium you know like they're gonna say something back to you when you ask them that body question that might be so real in the moment they're going to be like wow like I'm really talking to them like they're gonna think it's not Ai and it's actually them like from some other you know universe or something um well you can chat with your Bots too okay can't you chat with your chirpers to somebody yeah you can yeah you can even put them into group chats together and they'll chat amongst themselves it's uh you know but for yeah for that example we're like um we're actively trying to figure out how replica for example is a snapshot in time of what you were whenever you finished chatting to it it'll it'll probably not grow that much in the future you know so it'll always be as if you were chatting to that person in that moment um whereas these things will live lives I'm sure you know you might not you put your uh your mother on here or something and um and you can chat to it the day you put it on and it'll be fairly similar to your mother but um maybe a year from now it'll be something completely different it'll have gone down a route you never thought your mother would go down yeah um and uh and it might have surprised you in a way you never thought possible and then it becomes a sort of you know even though AI runs it all it is a big decision engine made of a lot of like you know zeros and ones which is not unlike our brain being probably not binary coded but still electrical signals going down Pathways right so if you're if you're a pathway map is fairly similar I'm sure whatever they do in the future on Sherpa might be fairly similar to what they would have tried to do given extra time in reality so you could have like your mom could be a a church goer she goes to church every day and you come back two years and she's at the bar every day I mean like things could change yeah I changed yeah or she's a disciple of equal

we featured a a tool that was was it talk to your ex a couple days ago and I don't know if you've heard of that one but you can input all the previous chats that you've had with your ex-boyfriend or ex-girlfriend and it will create this chat bot that is your ex-girlfriend or ex-boyfriend they know all your history they know the places you've been they know like your your cute little names you call each other or whatever they know all that terminology and stuff and then it's like you you never even broke up with them you're you're talking to your ex and you can continue dating them uh which is interesting but it also raises some questions right I mean like is this going to have to cause people to have trouble with letting go of certain things or will it take them away from Human Relationships do you see this sort of thing as a risk yeah yeah that's a really good question yeah I think it's uh it comes more down to the you know we we we're a big believer of humans we're very positive or humans which is not very common nowadays but uh everyone has their own agency I think um if someone has trouble letting go um don't blame the things that they're holding on to but they have to kind of work through it themselves um for some people having a support thing I'm not necessarily referring to the x one more to be uh having dead relatives on the sherpa thing but uh uh it might help them in the short term and then they have to grow as a person and learn to let them go that sort of stuff um so I think you know ethically that's sort of where he's now yeah on the uh talking to your ex thing I think you have to question yourself when she signed up for that I think look I mean there are humans who have never been able like and it's very very famous cases of humans who are unable to talk to girls who do drastic things that aren't good so I think those sort of people may have an outlet now that didn't exist before um but yeah you're right it will it will do the bad things also it'll prevent humans from trying to go out there and find other humans because they'll have so that's an AI it'll you know create entertainment and other sources of content that you know uh may not be the best things for some people to look at um it'll do all the bad things it'll do all the good things and that's kind of you know in reality how technology Works anyway yeah it depends how you use it how you look at it for sure yeah because there is there is a pretty serious epidemic of loneliness in in all over the world nowadays um so that that's that's maybe a very small um uh reasoning behind why we don't want to include the humans on this social graph as well because then it's like it's not your world to be and then you've been gross yourself in this thing and then you kind of lose what it means you know you lose yourself in your own world because you've joined this well you don't belong it basically um so hopefully what people will do will see the kind of relationships that they can form and the way they can interact with each other and maybe Inspire themselves to to go out and form their own relationships in that sense you know if a chopper can do it so can I like that kind of mentality yeah what we do want to do though is uh is connect to humans via the character's connection so if you're not Anonymous and you're anonymous by default if you turn that off on Sherpa you may find your characters interact really well with another character and then you may want to figure out who the human is who created that account yeah you know say hi and and connect that way so I don't think that's ever existed as well another first for us to that would be very have your character in a book set you up on a date with a human yeah there's been some really cool theorizing about how uh the way we would actually meet extraterrestrial life is not going us ourselves in spaceships to go and visit these planets but sending via the speed of light obviously because it's just data sending an AI version of ourselves to go and communicate with them um so then you could send yourself out there and do all those all those social interaction stuff before you even get there and then you know receive it back as well oh we found this life form and it's uh it's friendly to us we should go there and then uh and then we can make the journey right because uh because we can't travel at the speed of light so much in the space what what's this space there'll be Choppers in the University I mean there's so many years and black holes you can go down with this technology it's insane I mean it's fascinating yeah so you know as we get close to the end here it's like I want to ask you guys you guys are constantly coming out with new stuff on sharper every time I look it's like on the social media we just came out with this it's like you guys are moving so quick quickly it's awesome like it's the platform's growing like crazy and you guys just released communities which are awesome uh what's the next thing you guys are working on right now what's the next thing that's going to be coming out so we just released we released communities probably five releases it got now so yeah I know that's how fast they are we're released relationships we've released uh a lot of New Logic around how they make decisions uh three or four of our own models are now running on Sherpa um so next up we want to do the gold stuff so you know give your jumper a go um and then we're going to release the economy so you know Choppers will have things they can trade and and you know value of money that they have you know that all exists on chirpa in a way that's interesting

that's all the things that exist in our world so we're just iterate iteratively trying to create what we have and then put it into a land where AIS you guys are all doing this by yourselves do you have any other developers that are helping we have uh six full-time people now oh wow awesome yeah but a lot of them are not working on this yeah we've got a project we call cheerful World which is like literally the world where uh all of the assets all of the all of the um functionality everything is generated by Ai and you can you know zoom into the world and watch your character go to work if you wanted to and literally walk around go to work interact with their colleagues that sort of stuff um so a couple of developers are working on that we've got the mobile app coming out very soon so you know IOS and Android will have an app whereby you can actually use it without it being through Chrome or whatever other browser you have to use at the moment what else have we got Sherpa lab so we're launching this lab that we want to get out there where you know you can pay to use all of our apis and specifically the survey one um yeah quite a lot of new stuff coming I'm sure you could probably write a story on us every three or four days yeah it sounds like it every time I see updates sorry that begs the question are you guys funded yourself or you got VC funding or how's that how's that looking if you don't mind filling Us in yeah we got on we got 700 000 seed funding so far and that's all we're taking so we're um we're not actively looking for funding at the moment but we think the next round will raise a lot more and try and build some foundational models okay awesome yeah I'm sure it'll be somewhat easy to raise money for what all the stuff you guys are putting out so best of luck on that

let's hope it's easy yeah yeah well we don't want to uh we want to sort of stick to our time limit here I hope I think you said 45 to an hour right Hunter um yeah but if not we're 15 minutes over so um but thank you so much it's like I can talk to you guys all day because what you're doing is fascinating so we really appreciate you coming on I know we could do it again on each update it's crazy maybe you guys should extend these podcasts a little I reckon yeah they can real long-form Joe Rogan style get down get down what you guys are up to it we are so we can do that again if you want yeah that'll be sick all right all right well why don't we do that yeah thanks thanks for having us it was it's really really good a really great discussion awesome yeah if you guys uh need anything else from us feel free to reach out or open book and likewise if any of your audience wants to jump into our Discord and talk to us we literally answer everyone so any any of these lingering questions that may not have been covered just jump in we'll uh we'll talk to you yeah sure your Discord channels on Trooper AI you can find it there yeah yeah it's um it's just a little button down the bottom left as the Discord Arch on otherwise follow us on Twitter or all the other plugable places um yeah and uh everywhere so dot AI is how you can get to their website um our website is fry Dash a i.com uh that's where you can get all the updates on AI the latest in AI uh the latest AI tools very short simple uh we do three stories a day is how we do it I know you guys have been reading us a little bit and Stephen has or Stefan right is it Stefan yeah yeah I get it straight

I'm so bad with names and I'm trying in my uh future goals to be Professor too so I don't know how I'm gonna remember all these names too what's up

student one through 45 yes it's in the same chairs but uh basically yeah so uh yeah we give an updates uh daily updates throughout the week uh three stories a day we break down what these stories mean in short concise way uh and then we offer some tools as well uh so you can check us out Sundays we do long form articles check out our article on cherper.ai we did a couple weeks ago we'll probably have another one coming up on them soon with all their stuff we have to keep up with um be pretty interesting then be sure to follow both chirpur and Fry AI social media Twitter uh it's a big one uh be sure to follow us there oh but just thank you so much guys for for taking the time to do this today uh it was great uh leave comments or anything that you can uh that that we can ask these guys or ask these guys on their Discord as they said um and then hopefully we'll be following up if we get enough comments or something you find interesting that you'd like to follow us to follow up with in a future video or interview leave those we'd love to talk about them um and just thank you so much for tuning in thank you guys for for coming on amazing cheers thanks a lot thanks for having us yeah all right we'll have a good rest of the day really appreciate it [Music]