Ep 034: Confident Parenting: How To Set Boundaries With Your Kids

Welcome back Parents!

In this episode:
- Boundary setting: What are boundaries?  It's not what you think!
- The 4 commonly known parenting styles and which one we are aiming for
- How boundaries are actually what allows us to create deeper connection with our kids
- How to hold a boundary as a parent
- How to get your kids to buy-in to your boundaries
- How to distinguish a boundary from a trigger - CRUCIAL!
- How to navigate two conflicting boundaries 

Episode Resources:
1. The 4 Styles of Parenting: https://parentingscience.com/parenting-styles/

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Happy Parenting and Good Luck Out There!

Creators & Guests

Host

Jennifer Hayes

Host

Rick Hayes

Editor

Natalie Long

What is The Relational Parenting Podcast?

Welcome to the Relational Parenting Podcast! I’m Jennifer Hayes – a Parent Coach and 20 year Childcare Veteran. Each week I sit down with my own father (and cohost), Rick Hayes, and discuss the complicated issues that parents face today, as well as some of the oldest questions in the book. From the latest research and the framework of my Relational Parenting Method, we offer thought-provoking solutions to your deepest parenting struggles.
Relational Parenting is an evidence and experience based parenting method created by me - Jennie. After 20 years in the child care world, in every scenario you could possibly imagine, I realized one thing: EVERYONE was prioritizing the behavior and performance of a child over their emotional well-being. This frustrated me to no end and when I re-visited the latest research, I realized there was a better way. I started applying the principles I'd been learning in my own self-work, parent-child relationships, and partnerships, and I started gobbling up all the new research and books I could get my hands on. When I saw the results of putting these practices into play with the children I was taking care of - the difference in myself AND the kids I worked with was ASTOUNDING.
I am SO PROUD to be presenting Relational Parenting to the world. I can't wait to hear about your own journey. From Parents-to-be to the seasoned parenting veteran - there's something here for everyone!

Jennie (00:01.045)
to go in depth and then I was like, wait, this is content. Shut up, like to myself, like shut up, like answer his questions on air. So.

Papa Rick (00:05.286)
That's right. Yeah.

Papa Rick (00:10.474)
I get it. Cool. Yeah, let's go. Let's go. I got the first one here in front of me now.

Jennie (00:15.749)
So yeah, welcome back everybody to the Relational Parenting Podcast. We are here this week and we are talking about how to set boundaries in a relational way. So how to set boundaries as a relational parent because it's not all about rainbows and butterflies. We have to have rules and limitations and...

um, help our kids get through life in a safe way. So, um, let's see. I wanted to start with just talking real quickly about the four commonly known parenting styles. Um, they're known as the authoritative, authoritarian, permissive, or uninvolved parent.

Um, and authoritative is kind of what we're aiming at with relational parenting. Um, authoritative parenting is when they are encouraging their kids to be responsible and think for themselves, considering the reasons for the rules, but they're also very empathetic and responsive to big emotions. We're not shutting emotions down. Um,

or anything like that, but we're a confident parent who can handle big emotions. We can also set boundaries and remain consistent in those boundaries. Authoritarian parenting is a parent who expects their orders to be obeyed without question and rely on punishment or threat of punishment in order to control your kids.

And it's a fear-based parenting model. So your children are afraid of you or afraid of the punishment that they're going to endure when they make mistakes, et cetera.

Papa Rick (02:19.106)
which could be stuff like shame and guilt and... Right.

Jennie (02:21.921)
Yep. Or all the shame and guilt and lack of self-confidence, lack of knowing themselves because they're just following your orders instead of being able to negotiate or talk about things or make mistakes and like, like it's okay. Everybody makes mistakes. And so then, so permissive parenting, permissive parents are responsive and warm towards their children. So they respond to emotions. They're very warm and loving.

Papa Rick (02:36.746)
work on learning the rules. Yeah.

Jennie (02:51.813)
which is a great thing, but they are reluctant to enforce rules. So they might set a rule, but then let their kid repeatedly get away with breaking the rule, or they might not set any rules out of the belief that a child should just have complete freedom to explore with no boundaries. And we know from research that children do not thrive from no boundaries, no rules outside of like safety,

Papa Rick (03:10.487)
Yeah.

Jennie (03:21.837)
don't run in front of the car. But the parents, someone that we would label as a permissive parent is someone who is letting their child get away with murder. And no matter what their child does, their child can do no wrong. Their child is just a kid and anything they do is just chalked up to them being a kid or being young. Or they cover up.

Papa Rick (03:23.391)
Children run out in front of cars with no boundaries, yeah.

Jennie (03:50.849)
what their kid does and their child never experiences a natural consequence of any kind. This is where we have adults who are entitled and incapable of taking care of themselves or leading a healthy lifestyle because no one ever showed them how to. They were just free falling through life. Then uninvolved. You what?

Papa Rick (03:57.302)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (04:13.386)
I ran into that mostly on the school board. I ran into that on the school board. Parents, kids coming to a school dance, middle school age, not so much youngers, but middle school age. Kids are, you know, have a little freer range of action. Kids would show up and they showed up with snappers with rubber bands and paper clips running around snapping other kids at the dance.

and wouldn't quit once confronted. You know, they were caught a couple of times and were finally ejected. And parents were upset that they had to come get their kids because they would not behave at the word of another authority figure. And it's like, well, now you're still paying for the dance. You know, it was $6 or something. You know, it's like, no, you're not getting your money back. And yes, your child may not come back to two or three more events.

Jennie (05:00.067)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (05:11.062)
You know, they must, they must, there, there's a tribe here and they must behave in such a way that they're not, you know, ruining everybody else's good time. Yeah.

Jennie (05:18.101)
Well, they must just not cause harm. Yeah, your child was causing harm. They were given multiple warnings, requested to stop, and they chose to continue. So they were removed from their ability. That's a boundary. That's a very healthy boundary. You don't get to cause harm to these other children. The end.

Papa Rick (05:32.471)
Yeah. So what I thought, that's what I thought. There were three or four parents, man. They did not agree with that. And it was, I was kind of like, huh, I'd like to talk to you and see what makes you think that's okay. We never were that chatty about it. Anyway.

Jennie (05:52.253)
Um, so the fourth style is called uninvolved parenting, where they offer their children very little emotional support. So they're not super responsive when their child is upset, um, or happy or anything. They're just kind of like, yeah, okay. Or they ignore the tantrum or they, you know, so, um, uninvolved and fail to enforce standards of conduct. Um, and so we have.

I have a chart that I'm going to put a link to in the notes with these four parenting styles. It's just a really helpful visual for people because it's four boxes and in each box is one of the parenting styles. It makes two columns and two rows. So authoritative parenting falls into the demanding.

category and the sensitive and responsive. So authoritative parenting, we have expectations and boundaries, but we also are extremely responsive and empathetic when our child is experiencing heart emotions, mental struggles, et cetera. Authoritarian is demanding and stern and punitive. So obey me or else.

Papa Rick (07:11.734)
Yeah. Power.

Jennie (07:13.862)
Uh, permissive? Hmm?

Papa Rick (07:19.066)
It's kind of a threat of power as opposed to reason and back to the internal. You have to make them internally motivated to do that, not for fear of a baseball bat coming down from the sky.

Jennie (07:20.557)
Power. I'm in charge. You're, you're a little.

Jennie (07:28.599)
Yeah.

Jennie (07:32.237)
I always think of Matilda when I think of Authoritarian, the movie Matilda with the little girl and the dad, Danny DeVito, standing over Matilda and Matilda and saying, I'm smart, you're dumb, I'm old, you're young, I whatever, and like yelling at her like, I know everything and you're just a dumb little kid and like get out of here. That's what I think of when I think of Authoritarian.

Papa Rick (07:38.974)
I haven't been a while. It's been a while. Right? Right.

Papa Rick (07:56.694)
Yeah.

Jennie (08:02.001)
Um, permissive is in the categories, doesn't enforce limits, but is sensitive and responsive. And then uninvolved are stern and punitive and do not enforce limits and don't have expectations. So anyway, I'll link that in the show notes. It's just like a really helpful visual, excuse me. And it's a really great breakdown of the kind of the four most common styles of, um, or approaches that parents take.

to parenting and it really helped me in the past identify some of the like, oh, well, I want to be sensitive and responsive. I also want to set boundaries and hold limits because children need those things. And where do I fall? Where am I falling into the categories now and how do I get to where I want to be? So.

Papa Rick (08:46.646)
Yep. Yeah.

Papa Rick (08:54.658)
That's the thing to keep in mind is everything is a continuum like that. It's like, well, you can't, you can't be completely sensitive and responsive. Some, you know, you have to do some pushback on, uh, to create, but otherwise there's nothing as a, no such thing as a boundary if there's, if you know, you don't clip it off somewhere. So that's those, those quadrant things. I like to keep them in my head. Um, but there they are a, a guideline, not a, you know, you can't, you can't look at them too hard because they're not.

granular enough. That's a good grid.

Jennie (09:25.897)
Yeah. So why does any of this matter? Because having boundaries is, you know, we're all about really, right, we're called the relational parenting podcast and inside of relationship, inside of healthy relationship, functional relationship, whether it's a romantic partner or a friendship or a sibling.

or parent to child, inside of a relationship, there are boundaries. Because every person is a unique person with different needs and love languages and all of these things. And so we must set boundaries with those that we love in order to let them know what our needs are and how to love us. Right? And your children...

are going to learn from you how to set their own boundaries once they are adults, but also as they are children. Children get to have boundaries as well. And so teaching your child what healthy boundaries are. So I just want to say real quick too, boundaries, I think most people think of like drawing a line in the sand or building, putting up a fence. This is my boundary. Don't cross it.

Papa Rick (10:50.315)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (10:51.769)
I just want to say that it's more like...

You are opening, there's a fence, you have a yard. So as a human being, call it your, this is your imaginary yard. You have an imaginary yard around you in your space bubble. Yeah, and this is your space bubble around you and there is an imaginary fence around you, but there's a door. Maybe there's three or four or five or seven doors.

Papa Rick (11:14.531)
my personality or my identity.

Jennie (11:29.185)
or gates in order to open and be near you, be close to you, be connected to you. And what your boundaries are is your knowing of what those doors are. So a boundary is, I need to be spoken to in this way. I need to, so instead of saying, let's see, how do I wanna say this?

Oh, a positive way to set a boundary. And I'm going to get back to what I was talking about. But instead of saying, don't talk to me like that, right? That's a wall. Don't do that to me. You invite someone in instead. You create a door for them to speak to you the way you want to be spoken to. And you can say,

Papa Rick (12:10.983)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (12:24.401)
I need you to lower, I can't hear you when you talk to me like that. I need you to lower your voice and try again, please. And that opens a door for someone to connect with you instead of shutting them down and blocking them from you. And this is, yeah.

Papa Rick (12:30.455)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (12:34.647)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (12:38.398)
Yep. That's true of any relationship, whether it's two adults or whether it's your kids back to kids or people too. You know, we all have, we all have boundaries. We all have histories and baggage and preferences that created those boundaries. At least the ones we're aware of. There's always, there's always a place behind us where there's boundaries that we don't, that we don't see that it takes us a long time to learn about. I like this metaphor.

Jennie (12:47.534)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (13:07.858)
And when you're, and if you're going to mesh up against somebody else, you know, to get the doors in the same places and stuff that requires learning, training, maybe you might, you could think of it.

Jennie (13:18.529)
Well, yeah, for someone to know where your doors are, how to open those doors, how can I get to you?

Papa Rick (13:23.53)
Yeah. I opened my door, like in a hotel, you know, in a joining room, you know, I opened my door and there's a wall there. You know, it's like, well, there ought to be a, there ought to be a door here. Even if it's not open. Okay. Is it locked or not? Or do you know, do I know how to communicate this way? That's a, that's a terrific metaphor. I like that.

Jennie (13:43.557)
Thanks, I just came up with that. But also you said something about the boundaries behind you and there's a lot of people who don't actually know what their boundaries are because they were raised in a household with authoritarian parenting or permissive parenting where no one taught them what a boundary was or their boundaries were constantly bulldozed over and disregarded.

Papa Rick (13:45.356)
and it

Papa Rick (13:52.402)
No. Yeah.

Papa Rick (13:58.902)
Yeah.

Either way. Yeah.

Papa Rick (14:09.258)
Yep. Yeah. Or they just, or they just were, have not been an environment or you've been shielded and you don't know another way. There's all kinds of reasons why you might not know where all of your boundaries and communication channels are because might be just because they've never been exercised. You're in a, yeah, two families, two people merging, getting to know how another family works requires a little bit of, and it can't always be, Hey, you're violating my boundaries. Sometimes it's like, well, I need to find.

their door. How do they, how do they communicate this? I mean, as long as nobody's bleeding, as long as nobody's getting hurt, then that's just communication. That's a good metaphor for communication, right?

Jennie (14:49.485)
Well, yeah, there's going to be new boundaries to navigate as you meet new people or get into a relationship with new people or, you know, the longer you're married, new situations and stuff come up and boundaries get renegotiated and discussed because you might, there might be something in you that you just haven't discovered yet. But just in general, like children are not traditionally taught to...

Papa Rick (14:57.911)
All right.

Papa Rick (15:06.946)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (15:10.934)
You have to adapt, yeah.

Jennie (15:18.781)
find their boundaries inside of themselves and speak them out loud. Then they are not, once they do, because children will speak their boundaries, if they're not trained on how to do that respectfully and relationally, or if when they express a boundary, a parent bulldozes and violates the boundary constantly, then we grow up into adults who either disregard our own boundaries and don't take care of ourselves.

Papa Rick (15:23.179)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (15:40.94)
Yeah.

Jennie (15:47.973)
put ourselves in situations that are like dangerous or suck our energy or are toxic, you know, in a million different ways. Or we become people pleasers who don't develop our own personality or wants or interests. We just follow whoever the next like interesting person is, a friend or a lover or whatever, and we never figure out who the fuck we are.

Papa Rick (15:54.028)
Yeah.

Drain, depression, yeah, there's all kinds of ways that just drains you.

Papa Rick (16:09.61)
Yeah. It seems like a lot more people running around expecting the world to conform to their expectations, their boundaries, their, you know, wishes and not, not being so good at adapting or learning or, you know, uh, just adapting to the, to the world as it is or.

you know, the situation they're in, the people they're around as it is.

Jennie (16:41.758)
Well, that's a whole other topic you're bringing up there.

Papa Rick (16:44.031)
Yeah, yeah.

I'm just thinking through this metaphor. I really like this metaphor. The whole boundaries thing, that's a framework for discussing all kinds of things. And it's very important, I think, the upshot is, it's very important to teach our kids, to model for our kids, adaptivity and, you know, what's a good boundary, what's a bad boundary, why do I have a boundary, what's going on here? Think about our communication.

Jennie (17:15.513)
So we're gonna, okay, so that's actually, that's perfect because we are going to talk about what actually is a boundary, not what is something that bothers me that I'm going to torture everyone else over. Okay, because adaptability is important. You can't control the people around you. You can only control yourself. And so part of boundaries is your choice.

Papa Rick (17:23.852)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (17:29.579)
laughter

Papa Rick (17:37.008)
That's right.

Jennie (17:43.717)
to if it's actually something that they're doing to you that's harmful, or is it something that you're simply being triggered by and you need to explore that inside of yourself? And so we're going to talk about the distinction of what a boundary really is versus a punitive trigger that you need to work on yourself.

Papa Rick (18:05.899)
Yeah.

Jennie (18:06.481)
Um, and parents specifically, I'm, I'm talking to parents right now, because once you can identify what your true value based boundaries are, you can release and let go of all of the trigger shit that you don't need to react to anymore, and that will teach your children to, to do the same, to be adaptable and these are my top, you know, these are my five boundaries right now that I know of or whatever.

Papa Rick (18:23.115)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (18:35.818)
Yeah.

Jennie (18:36.233)
Um, so what's actually a boundary and what's just being diff, a difficult person who's trying to make everyone else in the room conform to something. Um.

Papa Rick (18:45.27)
That sounds like the roots of getting to choosing your battles. What's a real, what's a real value? What's just, okay, fine. Move on. You know, don't not, not letting everything bother you equally.

Jennie (18:51.045)
Hmm.

Jennie (18:59.021)
Right, right. So what I was getting to was the why. Why are boundaries important? Because boundaries are not a fence to block people off from you. A boundary is actually a way of opening a door to someone to allow connection. And the whole goal of relational parenting is that we are building a foundation of connection between parents and children so that you can grow healthy, happy human beings who know how to function.

in the world. And they do that. You have to know how to be in relationship with people. You have to know how to be in relationship with yourself and how to be in relationship to your environment and everything else in order to navigate ups, downs, trials, everything that life comes with. So, so boundaries. All right. Step number one.

Papa Rick (19:29.058)
so they can go out and do that in the world. Yeah.

Papa Rick (19:49.526)
Yeah. Resilience. Yeah.

Jennie (19:58.861)
is everyone needs to go grab a journal and a pen and write down the question, what are my boundaries? Do you even know what your boundaries are? And we're going to distinguish between boundaries versus triggers.

Papa Rick (20:06.958)
Hehehe

Papa Rick (20:10.561)
my boundaries.

Jennie (20:23.277)
boundaries versus triggers. Okay? So there might be a hundred thousand triggers that live in your body. My child, when my child screams, when my child doesn't listen, when my child does this, when my partner does that, when my, when there's dishes in the sink, instead of being put into the dishwasher, that's 10 inches away. Like everyone's got triggers. Okay? And if we want to,

Papa Rick (20:23.502)
That sounds like fun.

Papa Rick (20:50.297)
Hahaha

Jennie (20:52.933)
make it even deeper. There's like, there's deeply traumatic triggerings that some people live with, right? So triggers can be information. They can also just be little like annoyances that you need to just move on from and get over. Yeah.

Papa Rick (20:58.651)
Mm-hmm. Well, sure.

Papa Rick (21:11.926)
Well, or noises, or I mean a trigger could probably be, technically be anything, depending.

Jennie (21:19.233)
But a boundary, a trigger is an internal reaction, okay? A boundary, the difference is that a boundary is based on your values as a person and as a family, okay? What are your values as a family that you want your children to take on and live out in the world? What are your home, household, family values?

Papa Rick (21:25.253)
Mm-hmm. Okay.

Jennie (21:49.205)
And when you sit down and write that question out, then write a list of maybe your top three to five values, family values. What does this family value?

You know, we value teamwork. We value talking through things. Respect is a tricky one because the definition of respect.

Papa Rick (22:11.095)
Respect.

Jennie (22:19.961)
gets extremely skewed, especially when it comes to a parent who feels entitled over their child. Respect is a tricky one. So maybe we'll jump into the definition of respect. Yeah. But that's fine. Putting mutual respect down. But that also means you, the parent, are respecting your child and giving them a voice and doing.

Papa Rick (22:23.395)
Hmm.

Papa Rick (22:34.446)
We'll save that to, we'll save the hard, do the easy ones first, save the hard ones.

Jennie (22:49.285)
listening to them and allowing them to negotiate and argue and like all of the things like respect doesn't mean that your child blindly obeys your orders. That is not respect. That's a foot soldier.

Papa Rick (22:59.79)
Mm-hmm. You have to have a, you have to come up with a kid. Why do the response from a kid will generally be, well, why do you get to? And it changes with age, right? With competence and with trust and demonstrated performance. Yes, I know you won't sneak out of the backyard. You haven't snuck out of the backyard. You respect that rule.

Jennie (23:17.08)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (23:27.306)
You know, so then you get to go out in the backyard and I don't have to be there with you.

Jennie (23:31.821)
Well, let me ask you this, what, what?

Jennie (23:37.021)
What drives a child to respect a rule? If you can't use punishment, okay? You can't use punishment or consequences to force your child to respect a rule. What then causes your child to respect a rule?

Papa Rick (23:47.978)
Shame.

Papa Rick (23:52.074)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (24:02.008)
and...

Papa Rick (24:02.584)
They have to be able to hold the same value you do on, you know, little kids are unaware that they're in danger.

A lot of times little bitty ones. And so all you can do is have a didactic. Boom. Thou shalt not go past this point. You can't go over the crest of the road where I can't see you on your bike. You know, there just has to be a limit.

Jennie (24:13.696)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (24:27.969)
If they can ride a bike, they can understand why they're not going over the crest of the hill. It is very, very early on that a child can, you can start having a logical discussion with a child about why it rules in place for their safety, for them to understand.

Papa Rick (24:30.57)
Yeah, you're true. Yeah, yeah, back to three-year-olds.

Papa Rick (24:43.978)
Yeah, and why I can do things that they can't. Right. I can use the stove for the time about the stove. I can cook on the stove. You can get, you can get milk and cereal out, but you can't use the stove.

Jennie (25:00.021)
yet. And you could help me cook and learn how to use the stove. And then some, we'll work towards it together. And then someday you will be able to use the stove.

Papa Rick (25:01.276)
yet.

Papa Rick (25:05.826)
That's right.

Yeah. And so that somehow has to become a shared value to for them to respect that rule themselves, as opposed to you turn around, leave the room and they go and they want to go tinker with the stove. You know, somehow there has to be an understanding.

Jennie (25:25.869)
So respect, if you could have to say it in a couple of words, what is the foundation of bringing a child in to respect a rule that you have set for them?

Papa Rick (25:39.294)
Agreement is the first word that comes to mind. You have to come to some kind of agreement.

Jennie (25:41.837)
And how do you get someone, how do you come to an agreement?

Papa Rick (25:47.446)
Hmm. Mechanically by talking, by sharing values by other stuff. Yeah.

Jennie (25:49.985)
Yeah. Talking. You have to have a fucking conversation with your kids, and you might have to have it multiple times. Like, you have to talk to your children like they are intelligent beings capable of understanding logic and rationality and safety. And they are. I promise. They are.

Papa Rick (25:58.207)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (26:02.84)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (26:07.07)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you teach them language and safety and rationality, and I mean, that's all part of it. That's all part of the talking. Those are things you teach by talking. Yeah. It's time consuming to raise kids.

Jennie (26:12.437)
If you, yeah, if you talk to them, yeah.

Jennie (26:17.825)
Yeah. So instead of you can't use the stove because, because you're too little, because it's dangerous, because you're going to get burned. Your kid's not going to buy into that.

Papa Rick (26:26.442)
Yeah. Or you get burned and it's, I told you so.

Jennie (26:31.585)
Yeah. So anyway, so why boundaries? Boundaries create connection within the family. Do you even know what your boundaries are? Well, you don't unless you know what your values are because boundaries are a value-based thing. And in order to make them non-punitive, so not like non-punitive rules, like, oh God, I can't even think of one right now.

Papa Rick (27:00.426)
non-punitive consequence.

Jennie (27:03.557)
So punitive, like, yeah, like it serves no purpose and it doesn't teach them anything. It's just you feel like you're in control and in power because you got to punish your kid. Or you got to, you set a boundary just because you can versus it actually being something that matters as a family and as a value that you want your child to grow up into. So.

Papa Rick (27:30.658)
So that's kind of like a timeout for something trivial is what comes to my mind.

Jennie (27:35.193)
Yeah, timeouts are dumb. There's no reason for timeouts. They literally don't do anything.

Papa Rick (27:39.662)
I told you not to come in the kitchen. Well, in my mind that touches on consistency. You know, if your rules are always changing.

That's hard for a kid to comply to, you know, it's like, stay out of the, stay out of the kitchen while I'm doing something right now. Um, and, and if they violate, you know, if they're running around and, and want to ask a question, they come in and so then they get in trouble. You get angry, you get fed up. I have to get the floor mopped or whatever.

Jennie (28:17.241)
So let's use that. So that's good. Let's use that example because that one, when I was, a couple of years ago, nannying for a family that had a two and a three year old brother and sister and when it came time for me to make dinner by the, it's like getting towards the end of the day and I'm all kind of like answering questions. I'm over it. I just, just give me 15 minutes.

Papa Rick (28:20.758)
trying to imagine situations.

Papa Rick (28:43.626)
Everybody's wore out.

Jennie (28:46.629)
to like think straight and put a fucking meal together. You guys go play in the living room, okay? The phrase, you guys go play in the living room, don't come in the kitchen. That's a directive, right? That's a directive and order, like, yeah. Like it's a, it's you go do this. Yeah, a hope, a prayer, please. Yes.

Papa Rick (28:49.934)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (29:07.338)
A wish. Keep in mind we're all doing this exhausted and about a second from exploding just because of yeah, all that stuff going on. That's what makes us the challenge. It's we're not all just sitting here calmly on an afternoon going la dee da.

Jennie (29:16.801)
Yes. Sleep deprived. Yes.

Jennie (29:27.061)
Right. So you've asked your children, however many of them there are, you guys need to go play outside. You guys need to go play in the living room. Don't come in the kitchen.

That's your directive. Okay. And then two seconds later, one of them comes running into the kitchen and is like, look what I found. And it's a crumb, you know, or it's old sticker that's lost. It's sticky or whatever, whatever it is that they, and you're like, oh, that's so cool. Like, but I need you to not be in the kitchen. Okay. And they run away and back out to the living room. And you're like, oh, thank God. And then 90 seconds later.

Papa Rick (29:45.142)
That's right. Exuberant!

Papa Rick (29:51.777)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (30:02.174)
Yeah. Yeah, that was easy.

Jennie (30:07.309)
They come, one of them comes running back in or they're playing tag and one of them comes and runs behind your legs to hide from their sibling or whatever, cause they've, you know, they're goldfish. They have the memory of a goldfish. Yeah. And you say, you remind them, guys, you need to go play tag in the living room. And like, maybe they're, maybe they ignore you. Maybe they don't hear you. Maybe they're talking to each other. Maybe they're running around with like chickens with their head cut off. They don't hear you.

Papa Rick (30:08.564)
I'm sorry.

Papa Rick (30:15.275)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (30:19.626)
Cause their attention span is about 90 seconds. Yeah.

Jennie (30:37.601)
Like whatever you do to get their attention, like raise your voice or you repeat yourself, whatever it is you're doing, you are repeatedly setting a boundary that they are not buying into, right? So how do we get our kids, even our young kids, to buy into a boundary that doesn't need to be repeated? Because every time you have to repeat the boundary, it loses its value to your child.

Papa Rick (30:45.346)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (30:50.015)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (31:07.182)
Sure. Well, you're not hitting them hard. Yeah, you're not hitting them hard enough. You're not shouting loud enough. You know, that's... No, that was the intent. You know, that's the... How do I get these kids' attention? Right? Or do I give up the boundary a little bit?

Jennie (31:08.105)
you're not setting it effectively enough.

Jennie (31:20.545)
I'm not editing that one out. Hahahaha!

Jennie (31:28.885)
Yeah, yeah. And this is where parent exhaustion, yeah, or do I give up? Yeah. Yes.

Papa Rick (31:36.29)
give up the boundary. It's like, what's so bad about having them underfoot?

Jennie (31:41.409)
Yeah. So, so we either permit, we either become permissive or we become authoritarian. In those moments when things get really hard, we get exhausted. We think we keep setting a boundary and they're just not listening to me. And woe is me, I'm a victim. It's called victim mindset, parents. We all do it. We all do it. Woe is me.

Papa Rick (31:42.614)
You adjust, you adapt, you adjust.

Papa Rick (31:48.735)
Yep.

Hahaha

Papa Rick (32:02.366)
Well, yeah, I wouldn't go that far, but yeah, well, it was me.

Jennie (32:08.905)
and you either choose an authoritarian route and you yell and you make it, you threaten punishment. And if you come in this kitchen one more time, you're not getting dessert, you're not getting this. I'm taking your toy away. Or you just give up and let them play at your feet and trip. And hopefully you don't die making dinner. Okay, there's a better way, I promise. Okay, instead of setting a boundary with a directive or a request.

Papa Rick (32:16.31)
Yeah. Raise the volume. Raise the stakes. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Papa Rick (32:30.987)
Hahaha!

Jennie (32:39.053)
we are going to, instead of setting it multiple times over and over again, which if you add up all the times that you have to make the request, it's gonna take three, five, 10 minutes of your time, right? So instead, at the front end, we know five o'clock, I need to make dinner, like, and I need them to just get out of here for 15 minutes.

Papa Rick (32:50.922)
Yeah, yeah, that's the trigger. That's the trigger. Hey, I've done this three times now. Yeah.

Jennie (33:08.537)
So what you're gonna do is you're gonna say, you bring them in, you know, get their attention, whatever it is, you're like, guys, it's time for me to cook dinner. And depending on where you're at, well, we're not gonna use an example of a day where you're cooking dinner and you're letting them help. Okay, so today is not that day. Maybe six other days a week, you bring your kids in and they get to help make dinner and you have a fun and they learn a new skill.

Papa Rick (33:29.974)
Well, there you go.

Jennie (33:37.265)
and it's great, but this day, this particular day, you just need 15 minutes alone in the kitchen. You, well, or you're just tapped out. So you're setting a boundary because I, so I'm gonna use myself. I'm setting a boundary because it's been a really long day. I know that I am about to snap, and if I snap, it's gonna cause harm to them. So I am self-identifying my boundary, my limits.

Papa Rick (33:41.714)
This involves a big pot of hot oil and you don't want them in the room with you.

Papa Rick (33:55.566)
software.

Papa Rick (34:00.365)
Oh, okay, regulation. Okay, yeah.

Jennie (34:06.529)
of my capabilities and I'm choosing to give myself a few minutes to chill out, calm down, get a little less overstimulated and I need my kids and I need the kids to cooperate. So how am I going to do that without begging, repeating, pleading, punishing, bargaining, bribing? We don't need to bribe.

Papa Rick (34:13.763)
There you go.

Papa Rick (34:20.141)
take the edge off.

Papa Rick (34:30.634)
and effectively do it.

Jennie (34:34.777)
Okay, all of these things we can throw out the door. You bring them in, say, guys, it's almost dinner time. I need to make dinner and I need to be alone for a few minutes. And they're like, okay, blah, blah. And you're like, so.

Papa Rick (34:47.096)
Yeah.

Jennie (34:49.465)
So what that means is, so here's where the value comes in. And this is what I would say to them. Jenny is not feeling good, because they were two and three. So language around this with a 12 year old is gonna look different, right? Your 12 year old, you can say, I'm really tired. I'm feeling very frustrated and cranky and I need 15 minutes to myself. Is there something that you can go do? Is there something you want to do for the next 15 minutes?

that will keep you out of the kitchen, right? For a 12 year old and it's like, maybe I'll go read a book or I'll go watch a TV show or whatever. With a two and three year old, it's Jenny doesn't feel good and I need some quiet and some space. I'm feeling, or even if it's a two and three year old you've taught and we're talking about emotions, I'm feeling really angry and I need to be alone for a few minutes. I'm not feeling, I don't feel good.

And if you've had even one conversation with your two and three year old about their feelings, their frustration, their anger, their sadness, they've probably either taken some time for themselves to go read a book and calm down, or they've talked to you and like hugged you in order to calm down. Like your kid knows what anger is. Okay. And they know what it feels like in their body. And if you've never done any of that,

Papa Rick (36:11.192)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (36:17.485)
then this is going to take you a few tries. But anyway, I would say to them, Jenny is feeling really angry and really frustrated. And I just need a few minutes of quiet. And I need you guys to not talk to me for a few minutes because I'm not feeling good. So it's not about them doing something wrong. It's not about them being annoying. It's not about them being loud. It's about me needing some quiet time.

Papa Rick (36:45.735)
I have a need. That's right.

Jennie (36:47.941)
I need this. And then you ask a question. So you know, okay, developmentally, a two and a three year old have the attention span of a goldfish. So they are not going to be able to independently go into that room and play consistently for 15 minutes without needing you. Okay? Especially if they, like when they play together, you know, kids get out of hand, someone gets hurt.

Papa Rick (36:54.103)
Make the ask.

Papa Rick (37:07.79)
Check their watches.

Jennie (37:16.481)
All these things happen. So what you're going to do is you're going to say, I'm going to make up fake names here. I'm going to say, Suzy, what do you want to do for the next 15 minutes in the living room? You can go pick anything. You can go read a book. You can go play with the UNO cards. You can go play with any toy that you want. What do you want to do for the next 15 minutes? And that opens up her world. That's not go read a book.

Papa Rick (37:26.67)
There you go.

Papa Rick (37:43.439)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (37:45.145)
go play in the living room, go do this. Like you're not telling them what to do. You're saying, I need this. And so from that boundary, what is you have all these other choices of things to go do? And she's gonna say, I wanna go play with blah, whatever. And then you're like, great, go get it out, take it to the living room, like get going. And she's gonna run away and be excited to do whatever it is she wants to do.

Papa Rick (38:13.806)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (38:14.061)
And then you're going to turn to the other one. And then you say, Johnny, what do you want to do for the next 15 minutes? I want to go in the basement and play my drums. Or I want to go do this or read a book or whatever. Awesome. Go get it. You got it. Whatever you want, go do it. And they get to go pick something. The world is wide open. They're not being.

Papa Rick (38:38.58)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (38:39.077)
told to go away, they're not being told they're too loud or too annoying or too frustrating. They're not anything because the way we feel is our responsibility. Us being tired, we don't get to blame our children for that.

Papa Rick (38:54.238)
Right, right.

Jennie (38:56.045)
Like, it just is. I'm tired and I need this. So, yeah.

Papa Rick (39:01.322)
part of parenting. Any kind of caretaking really, you know, if you're an elk taking care of your parents or something, it is, that's one of the challenges is it is, it is exhausting. It's rewarding, but it is tiring. There's no, no sugar coating it.

Jennie (39:13.833)
Yeah. And depending on age, because in an adult relationship, there's reciprocation in boundary setting. There's having your needs met by your significant other. So you can say, I'm feeling, I'm at like 10%, I had a really bad day, I really just need to be alone and run a bath and go to bed tonight. And then your partner hopefully responds with, that's great.

or I'm sorry you had a bad day, I love you. My husband has run the bath for me so that it's actually done by the time I get home and I don't have to worry about scrubbing the tub and running the bath and doing the things. He takes 10 minutes and does that so that when I get home I can just die into the bathtub.

Papa Rick (39:45.43)
That's great. Yeah.

Papa Rick (39:52.163)
Aww. Yeah.

Papa Rick (40:04.374)
Yeah.

Jennie (40:06.189)
And so there's an opportunity for him to give me a little love, a little extra TLC, and I in return feel loved and cared for and more connected to my husband, right? Because I let him know how I was feeling. I let him know where I was at. And so he knew that when I came home, it was not the time to talk to me about anything, ask me for anything. And in fact, he...

Papa Rick (40:12.47)
A little active service. Yeah.

Jennie (40:30.729)
entered a place of service and caretaking. And he does the same thing. He'll text me before he leaves work. I'm at 0%, I'm at 30%. I helped somebody die today. Please don't, I wanna hear about your day, but I can't be dumped on the minute I walk through the door. And then I'm like, okay, I'm ready.

Papa Rick (40:48.362)
Yeah. Just everybody knows back to aligning the doors and the boundaries is it's like here we know what we're expecting instead of coming in, somebody wanting something, somebody not wanting something else and just having once bouncing off of each other until somebody gets PO'd and yeah. Yeah.

Jennie (41:06.773)
and expectations. Well, the way we normally connect is that you come home and I tell you all about my day and a frenzy and excitement and I, and it, you know, and on this particular day that is not the door for connection with him. On this particular day, the door he has just given me is call is that I can open is to be calm and give him a kiss and welcome him home and tell him I love him and then let him be in a quiet.

space. I don't need to unload my day on him. That's the door I get to open because he told me where he's at and what his needs are and set a boundary. So just like with our kids, so with our kids back to our little tiny ones example is we are letting our child know how we are feeling, what we need, and our children are not there.

Papa Rick (41:34.442)
guy. Yep. Go curl up in a corner. Go work. Go sit in a dark room for a while.

Yeah.

Jennie (42:01.745)
especially that young are not there to serve us or meet our needs. But it is important that we model that we are meeting our own needs right now.

Papa Rick (42:05.438)
Mm-hmm. Oh, that's a big one. But yeah.

Jennie (42:16.993)
Right? By taking a break. And so if your kids, when your kids get older, the way that this becomes a two-way street, when they're older, now, I really want to reiterate this. Kids are never responsible for meeting a parent's needs. Ever. You don't ever get to burden your children with guilt or demand.

Papa Rick (42:37.75)
Yep.

Jennie (42:46.309)
to meet your needs. They are the child, you are the parent. So mutual respect, yes.

Papa Rick (42:53.378)
but you're training them, you're training them to recognize other people have needs because kids don't recognize other people's needs. So it requires training so that when they do get older and they are 12 and around other kids that have needs, they can get along in a group because they're not the only one with a need, you know.

Jennie (43:17.674)
Well, you're teaching them to respect your needs, not meet your need, but respect your need. I'm going to meet my need or I'm going to go to my partner to get my needs met, or I'm going to call a friend to get my needs met, but I am going to let my child know that I have needs and that I am going to handle those needs. The boundary comes with, I need you.

Papa Rick (43:20.318)
Yeah, exactly, which is why respect. Right. There you go.

Papa Rick (43:29.762)
That's a good distinction. Yeah.

Jennie (43:43.033)
to choose an activity or I need you to go do this. If it's the boundary of needing space and time, et cetera. So as children get older, so as we enter the seven, eight, nine, 10, 11, an older phase of life, where our conversations with our children become even more and more rational and logical and their development

Papa Rick (43:47.31)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (43:51.116)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (44:13.013)
and brains are growing into understanding abstract thought and nuance and all of these things, they can.

be invited in to a more reciprocal relationship. And they're still not responsible for meeting your needs ever. However, when you need to cook dinner and your child is now seven, right? You've been saying this to them since they were three. Your child is now seven. You say, I...

I'm really frustrated. I'm really overwhelmed today. I'm really like my ears are ringing and I just need some quiet right now. You can say, I need to be alone in the kitchen. What would you like to go do? And you can prompt that. But by the time they're seven and you've been doing this over and over again for several years, they will likely say…

Okay, mom, I'm sorry you're feeling like that and give you a hug and go pick something to do themselves.

Papa Rick (45:21.428)
It'll become a habit or a routine. I mean, we tend to get...

Jennie (45:24.161)
It's just normal. It'll just be, okay, mom needs some space. I'm gonna, and they don't take it personally. It's not their fault that you need space. They just, mom has, mom is upset and wants to be alone for a few minutes. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Papa Rick (45:37.314)
Yeah. And then be prepared for them to do the same thing to you. They come home from school, have a bad day. That's the real gratification. And you go, Hey honey, how was your day? And they're like, I just need to go to my room for a while. Or, you know, I need some, I need to watch TV for a while.

Jennie (45:43.619)
Yes.

Jennie (45:56.341)
and you get the opportunity to not take it personally either.

Papa Rick (45:58.982)
And you have to go, yeah, and then you have to reciprocate or modeling out the window. Yeah. I'm so bad at it. Validate the feeling. Yeah.

Jennie (46:04.045)
And you have to say thank you. Thank you for telling me your needs. Like go do that. I'm glad you're taking care of yourself.

Jennie (46:15.289)
So, okay, let's see here.

Jennie (46:23.381)
Okay, so let's talk about something that's like a less personal boundary. I think personal boundaries are a little bit...

clearer of an example, but I want to do one that's more like a parenting conundrum of a teenager getting to go to a party or following a household rule that's based on a value.

Papa Rick (46:41.774)
Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Papa Rick (46:46.122)
The Zen, the Zen of parenting. We're gonna do conundrum.

Jennie (46:49.333)
And so...

So maybe I should, let's see, here's, I've got one. So.

Papa Rick (46:54.51)
Personal boundary. Tribal stuff, tribal stuff.

Jennie (47:00.157)
Uh, not even tribal stuff. Just, just, this is a val, this is a value-based one. Um, so we did a respect, respect and meeting needs one. Let's do a values slash household rules one and say that your child is involved in sports. Okay. And this is, I already know the example you're going to, you might bring up, but, um, say your child is involved in a sport.

Papa Rick (47:10.646)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (47:29.205)
or multiple sports and say that your child comes home from school and tells you, I don't wanna go to practice tonight. I'm overwhelmed, I'm frustrated. I had two tests today. My brain is like, I just wanna go to my room and be alone tonight. Okay. Now the conundrum as a parent is, you committed to being on this team, you need to go to practice. Or my child is telling me,

Papa Rick (47:30.646)
All right.

Papa Rick (47:46.274)
Yeah.

Jennie (47:57.165)
what their needs are in this moment, and I need to respect those. Both are values. Well, let's call this 10 or 11, 10 or 11 or 12.

Papa Rick (48:01.098)
Yeah. How old again? This is like middle school, high school, organized sports kind of thing. Younger grade school. Okay.

Jennie (48:12.249)
Well, that's middle school. 11, 12, 13 is middle school. But so, yeah, grade school, middle school, teenager. Doesn't matter.

Jennie (48:24.565)
You, you, your family values showing up for your commitments. Okay. Showing up for your teammates, right? You don't get to skip practice. Your teammates are all going to go suck it up. Whatever. Um, but I also value that my child knows themselves and has tuned into themselves and is feeling, you know, their body's tired, their brain is tired and they're saying they need a break tonight and just because practice happens to fall on this night.

Does that mean that my child has to ignore how they're feeling and force themselves to go?

Papa Rick (49:01.372)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (49:02.721)
And this is a tricky one because both are values. Both are valid, right? And how do you, right, and how in that moment do you navigate that and.

Papa Rick (49:10.498)
but they're in conflict at the moment.

Jennie (49:23.333)
come up with the, there is no right answer. Do you come up with an answer? Do you tell your child too bad, you're committed, you need to show up to practice? Do you let them, you say, okay, like I hear you, you're struggling today, it's okay to miss one practice every once in a while. Is it like the 4,000th time they've tried to skip practice? You know, there's a lot of.

Papa Rick (49:27.167)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (49:48.918)
Exactly.

Jennie (49:51.353)
factors that would go into this.

Papa Rick (49:55.882)
I think the general methodology is the same as you talked about with the little kids, which is you don't lay down, you talk with them. Right? It's a discussion, it's a chance to discuss values and the relative priority or values. Right? I used to work for a guy and I was not real good, I was not real fond of him.

in Pittsburgh because you know, you'd have 64 things to do. There'd be an unreasonable number of items of things to get done. And, and they, and they needed to be done by Friday and you'd go to him a couple of weeks in advance and say, there's no, there's no, you take a list. You don't just go in helpless and you say, look, here's estimated hours on all these things. This is not going to, I'm not going to be here 24 seven and be two people.

Jennie (50:34.167)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (50:52.322)
for the next two weeks, this is not all going to get done. Help me prioritize these. And his answer was always, everything is priority one. And that taught me very, very early on in my career, yeah, you have to prioritize things. And it's fun to go through a list and say, A, B, C, you can go through a list of 50 things and say, these are A's, these are B's, these are C's.

Jennie (51:01.505)
Ugh.

Papa Rick (51:20.278)
But at some point, the discussion becomes which is one, which is two, which is three, which is four, you know, nobody gets the same priority number in some situations. And so this is the

Jennie (51:34.347)
Well, at different times and in different situations, the priority number one is different.

Papa Rick (51:40.502)
Yeah, exactly. And so that's the discussion to be had is okay. We have, so, you know, to recognize we talk, we validate, I get it, I'm having a hard day, you know. So what, what are, and knowing the values, having these discussions about values and making these decisions based on values, not on how I feel right now, right? Switching it over to, because you can push through. A lot of life is,

I don't really feel like it, but I need to do this anyway. I'm hungry. I don't feel like hunting. I need to go get food. My kids are hungry, you know? So there's a, there's a certain amount of that in parenting, um, supplying things. And then you have to decide what other things to drop because I don't have enough time for hunting or I'm too worn down to go hunting, so I need to quit staying up all night drinking and that's just.

Kind of though, you know, you have to start picking and choosing activities because there's just the same 24 hours. So you have, you sit down, you have, you talk about the values. We value, you know, you made a commitment to the team. I understand you had a bad day. A lot of times I've found that having the talk makes it possible to go. To practice. Right. Okay. So.

Jennie (53:02.866)
Because they don't feel alone. They feel like, okay, I've like getting almost like talking about how exhausted they are and how pissed off or how frustrated or whatever, how they're feeling. Just getting it out of their body makes them feel better enough to be able to go to practice. Yeah.

Papa Rick (53:06.207)
Yeah, you get a little...

Papa Rick (53:15.975)
Yeah. Yep.

Papa Rick (53:21.866)
Being heard. Yeah. Being, being heard is very helpful, um, for us. That's why it's important. And guys don't get that a lot. You know, they just swear or, you know, they don't, they don't get the guys. Don't let each other do that so much. They're like, ah, you know, knock it off or whatever, but sit down and have the talk, talk through the values and don't make it so intense when I was doing that with you guys, you, I was probably a little too tense, intense on

You know, well, let's make a table and let's put values over here and those, I invite, you know, and being a little too linear about it, but get them, get them talking about the values and let them decide. Don't tell them it's okay to take the night off. You go, okay, well, what do you think now? You know, and if they're still conflicted. Yeah.

Jennie (54:10.253)
Yeah, who do you want to be? And also like this one decision is not going to make or break your life. Like, you know.

Papa Rick (54:21.662)
Well, even if it did, if I don't make it to practice, then I can't play in the world championship this Saturday. Or, you know, if there's some good tournament coming up, there's just so many variables, maybe it is a really important decision. And so it's like a lot of times what kids need and adults is just a sounding board to sound out how you feel. That's what for me anyway, I think that's why guys go off and

Jennie (54:31.533)
Hmm.

Papa Rick (54:49.858)
and crawl in a hole, you know, and, you know, are quiet is they just need time to process, you know, it seems like it seems like girls, I don't want to get into the whole thing. Yeah, I know, I know, you know, typically girls like to talk, guys need to talk some more. But yeah, what you need is time to process, you know, I'm overwhelmed. I don't see I can't I can't deal with it. I gotta go. Well, what that means is you need a moment to process.

Jennie (54:56.853)
Yeah. I do that too. Don't make it a man woman thing. I have to go into a hole.

Papa Rick (55:20.086)
Whether it's in the bathtub or in a cave or just a quiet walk around the block, you know, which you can't do when there's three, three little kids running around the house, you know, cause you got to keep an eye on the kids. You got to find a way to make that time. And you, and you also have to make a choice to get rid of some of the noise. It's like, I am, this is, I am, I am burnt out every day. And I, and dinner time is a mess. You.

need to make a choice. You need to prioritize your values there. So that's the short answer.

Jennie (55:53.317)
Well, if something is that constant, it's like it's a sign something's got to change. You need to do something differently. Change the routine, change the whatever, bring in a… I understand that there are people in all kinds of different situations that feel impossible to change, but it's not. You can tweak. I didn't say it's not hard. I said it's not impossible. And the mindset…

Papa Rick (55:59.114)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (56:13.342)
Yeah. That makes it hard. Well, some are really hard to change, you know? Yeah.

Jennie (56:22.933)
work that it takes to stop looking at all the reasons that it feels impossible and to start looking at all the ways you can, the tiniest ways, the teeniest, tiniest things you can do just a little bit over time, once a day, once a week, to start tweaking things towards how you actually want them to be. That's how you change your life.

Papa Rick (56:34.038)
Yeah.

Jennie (56:49.505)
it's not all gonna happen at once. It's going to take lots of tiny changes over time. And the more consistent you are, the faster it will go. And going back to the boundary setting and being able to set a boundary once and have it respected, relies on you setting up the environment for your children's success based on their developmental age.

Papa Rick (56:49.854)
Yep. Yeah, baby steps.

Papa Rick (57:14.147)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (57:17.399)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (57:18.185)
and the way that you set the boundary. And if you're setting the boundary with a two or three year old, it's gonna look, you know, the language is gonna be a little different, but it's gonna kinda look the same way as it's gonna look when you set a boundary with a 12 or 15 year old.

Papa Rick (57:35.53)
You know, the, yeah, the process really doesn't change that much. A lot of times it gets a little more sophisticated, a little more complicated. Something, the steps you can skip once you've done them a million times, but yeah, it's all pretty much the same thing.

Jennie (57:47.437)
But the buy-in that you want in order to set a boundary once, you have to have their buy-in. And in order to get a child's buy-in, you have to be transparent and honest with them. You can't just give demands and expect them to be followed.

Papa Rick (58:01.131)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (58:04.522)
Yeah, arbitrary, do it this way because I've always done it this way. Or my, my parent did it this way. That's not good. It requires.

Jennie (58:15.489)
or simply that I'm telling you what to do and I'm your parent and you need to listen to me.

Papa Rick (58:18.386)
Yeah, even worse. Yeah. The authoritarian just do it because I said so that's not, I don't believe that's the path that's the path, the discussion.

Jennie (58:29.421)
Not if you want actual buy-in. If you want them to actually hear you and listen and act in the way that you're requesting they act, demand for obedience is not going to get it.

Papa Rick (58:42.358)
That requires self-awareness though. So you have to build that in a parent, in yourself as a parent. You have to be able to have the discussion and be willing to live with the result. So what's the value here? What are we going for here? Is that a good value? You know, why is that a good value? Okay. And so the earlier you start, even if you're just starting this with teenagers, this has a tremendous amount of value.

If it only starts a week before they leave home, that just...

Jennie (59:13.773)
Huge.

Oh my God, navigating teenagers is such a critical time.

Papa Rick (59:21.65)
Yeah, it snaps into their brain and can take hold. A good idea, a good healthy habit can take hold and can take hold in a short time. If it's something that you've been able to do since they were born, you know, you've had it in yourself and been working on yourself and working on the kids. And it's just, they've become super people.

Jennie (59:46.969)
So, yes, and I wanna...

Yeah. So, and if you are, if this is something you're presenting the week before your child leaves home to fly, whether it's college or trade school or a job or whatever, they're moving out for the first time or going out on their own for the first time or whatever it is, even if you're kind of late in the game, especially the older they are, it's even more important to be transparent.

Papa Rick (59:54.034)
That's what the health self-help industry is about.

Papa Rick (01:00:07.479)
Yeah.

Jennie (01:00:23.457)
like all of a sudden switch how you're approaching your child, but because you're going to confuse them if they've had 17 years of you acting one way, they're going to be like, I'm sorry. What did, like, did you just ask me about how I feel about something? Like what? Be transparent about the fact that, Hey, I've been listening to this podcast. Hey, I've been getting some parent coaching. Hey, I've

Papa Rick (01:00:30.302)
Yeah, they will not trust. Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:00:39.838)
Yeah. Why are you, what are you trying to do? Yeah.

Jennie (01:00:51.237)
come across, you know, in whatever capacity that you have, I've come across this new information that, and I really want to be the best parent, you know, I'm imperfect, but I want to be the best parent I can be for you. And I want us to have an amazing relationship. And so I want to try this new way of talking to you. I want to try this new way of discussing. Yeah. And be like so transparent. You feel like you're over-communicating.

Papa Rick (01:01:10.343)
I just figured something out. I wish I'd been doing for years. Yeah.

Jennie (01:01:21.009)
Um, that's something I got from, um, uh, a marriage, like marriage advice. I forget where I read it. I think it was in a book somewhere, but it was like, if you don't feel like you are over communicating constantly, you're not communicating enough. You should feel like you are over communicating.

Papa Rick (01:01:25.148)
I'm sorry.

be over.

Papa Rick (01:01:38.761)
That's true. I get that sometimes.

Jennie (01:01:41.517)
because then you might actually be communicating enough to maintain a healthy relationship and knowledge of each other.

Papa Rick (01:01:50.066)
I do that a lot. I will say things in shorthand expecting other people to fill in the blanks. I think it's an obvious thing. And other people are like, I realize, no, I have to say all of the words, not just the metaphor. Yeah.

Jennie (01:01:58.784)
Yeah.

Me too.

Jennie (01:02:06.629)
It's one of my biggest struggles as a person is that I despise having to, what feels like to me, over explain myself. And I get, it's one of my triggers as a wife. It's, I get like, I'm like, why can't you?

Papa Rick (01:02:19.671)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:02:27.278)
I shouldn't have to break this down so far for you. Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe

Jennie (01:02:33.09)
And I don't expect him to read, like I've never been the person that's like, you should just know how I feel. Like never like that. Like not like you should read my mind. No. But I've said what I said. Like how many more words do I need to use? Like I literally said exactly what I want. I said exactly what I want. And it's not, and I'm not saying that to be like critical of.

Papa Rick (01:02:39.174)
That's the mind reading thing. That's the other side. Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:02:51.252)
That's probably not the best phrase either, yeah.

Jennie (01:02:59.913)
my husband who asks questions, he's asking a question because whatever phrasing I used, he didn't understand. And there's like that, there's nothing wrong with that. But for me and the trigger and the, and the part of myself that I'm working on.

Papa Rick (01:03:16.834)
that we have to work on, yes, ourselves.

Jennie (01:03:18.957)
is that not everyone hears words the same way that I do. Not everyone's definition of, I mean, Louis and I, like we've gotten into it over the definition of what a word is and words can mean lots of things. And it's like, oh my God, yeah. Like we literally, I remember once, I wanna tell this story and then I wanna get to this one last thing.

Papa Rick (01:03:24.423)
Exactly.

Papa Rick (01:03:31.65)
That's what it's all about.

That's the groundwork you're laying, you know? Yeah. What does that mean to you?

Papa Rick (01:03:45.238)
Okay.

Jennie (01:03:47.341)
But I remember once earlier in our relationship, I think like before we hit the year mark, we once had an entire argument where we then had to break down what each other's definitions of the, like the, what we labeled the times of day. So he would say, I would say I'm gonna, I'm going to be working all day, which to me is,

Papa Rick (01:04:10.054)
What's up for you?

Jennie (01:04:16.865)
from waking to sleep is the day. For him, the day means like from like morning, like when I get up in the morning and get to work around eight or nine o'clock to like four or five, you know, like a work day. Or no, you know what it was? It was like till like three or four o'clock because then it's not the day anymore, it's the evening.

Papa Rick (01:04:21.571)
The day.

Papa Rick (01:04:34.678)
Work day. Yeah. It's a family of origin thing. How did you refer to things?

Uh.

Uh, okay. Yeah.

Jennie (01:04:48.417)
And then it's the night. So there were distinctions for him in his brain, the way that he defines parts of the day as the day, the afternoon, the evening, the night, the bedtime. And for me, the day is from wake, from the time I wake up till the time we go to bed at night, I am working. And for him, for him, so we would get to like four o'clock in the day and he would like come to my office or he'd text me or.

Papa Rick (01:04:53.386)
Well, it's the way he grew up, yeah.

Papa Rick (01:05:07.342)
That's right. Nighttime is sleep time. Daytime is wake time.

Okay.

Jennie (01:05:17.645)
you know, whatever it was, he'd interrupt in some way and be like, let's go do this, let's go do that, let's watch a movie. And I would get upset because I was like, I told you I'm working all day. And to him, day is over. And it was just this like, it wasn't even a miscommunication. It was just that there, we literally had different definitions of a word.

Papa Rick (01:05:25.995)
day.

Papa Rick (01:05:29.326)
That's good. Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:05:39.026)
That's the miscommunication is the phrase doesn't mean to me what you think it that word does not. That's why I like the princess bride. That's exactly what that phrase is all about. Is you grow up in different parts of the country where there are different expressions. I worked in banking and we did bank conversions, one bank to the next. I think you did some of that too, you know.

Jennie (01:05:41.313)
Yeah, yeah, it is a miscommunication.

Jennie (01:05:49.121)
i don't think that word means what you think it means hhahahah

Papa Rick (01:06:06.226)
And it's like, what's this field? Oh, you know, loan interest rate. It's like, okay, show me all the calculations you use it for, you know, show me the code. Cause we got to figure out exactly what that number means, you know, cause otherwise somebody's mortgage is going to be really wrong in 30 years. Yeah. And why lawyers talk, why legal.

Jennie (01:06:15.278)
Yeah.

Jennie (01:06:25.729)
Right, and this is why there are lawyers. This is why no one can write their own contracts.

Papa Rick (01:06:35.882)
systems are not common sense. You know, they don't they don't make sense. It's an arbitrary framework within which you learn to learn to work. That's so important. And imagine it if you're a three year old and you don't have and you've only got nine words at your disposal or whatever a three year old has, you know, how you know, so you get some thing. Is that is which one is it? Is it the new one? I heard a scratch. They're not in the room.

Jennie (01:06:56.281)
My dog is knocking on the door. Did you hear her? No, it's Lucy.

Jennie (01:07:06.413)
No, Lewis has all three dogs.

Papa Rick (01:07:08.354)
Oh, Louis's home. Okay. All right. So yeah, no, that stuff is, that stuff is all good. I had, I had another example I wanted to use for something, but we'll catch up on it later. Yeah. No, good. Good. Uh, good points. Communication is tricky.

Jennie (01:07:22.937)
So boundaries, I just want to review, like boundary setting comes from knowing your values, the values you want to instill, the boundaries you want to set within those values, you know, and then enforcing them in a way that is kind but firm and setting your children up for success to listen and respect them, not arbitrary demands and repeated, et cetera.

Papa Rick (01:07:46.488)
Yeah.

Jennie (01:07:51.777)
And the reason that it's important for your boundaries to remain consistent and for you enforcing them consistently is not arbitrary either. It's not about your children seeing you as this person who will never waiver on these rules or you being a perfect person who always follows these rules and these boundaries and these values. And I don't ever mess up and I don't ever break my own rules because everyone is human and we all have bad days and it's gonna happen.

The importance of you being consistent with your boundaries and your values is that you are creating security, reliability, and trust for your kids. Your kids are going to trust you and rely on you and tell you things. They're going to confide in you. They're going to have hard conversations with you that...

Papa Rick (01:08:35.766)
predictability.

Jennie (01:08:51.137)
about things that most teenagers and kids would hide from their parents, right?

Papa Rick (01:08:55.446)
Yeah, because they're not in the habit or they don't have the expectation. The expectation hasn't been bred in them to have a conversation about hard, complicated things. You have to be able to get past the language. What's this mean? You'd have to have those conversations so you can pin down. I mean, that's why, that's why technical situations have academics have whole different languages for things.

Jennie (01:09:11.289)
willing to also like

Papa Rick (01:09:20.994)
Cause they have, they drill down into things to the nth degree and they have to make up words, you know, to talk about the color, the 5,000 colors of snow or whatever it is they're talking about. You know, you, everyday life doesn't require that, but communication requires words and understanding and agreement on what the words are. Yeah. You got to be able to talk.

Jennie (01:09:42.233)
Well, and so the muscle of being able to have an enduring, long, longer, complicated, you know, we need to reach an understanding and an agreement conversation, that's definitely a muscle that has to be built, right? Long, hard conversations are like, are not easy. People want, you want to give up, you want to walk away, you want to not have them anymore. That's exhausting.

It can be. But the other thing is that when you are having those conversations with your child, when you are receiving their opinions, their arguments, their reasoning, and you're giving respect and acceptance to those things, and then you're also reciprocating with your own, like, this is a safety issue. This is why I feel that this boundary is really important. This is the value that I want you to have.

Papa Rick (01:10:11.336)
Thank you.

Papa Rick (01:10:32.958)
in my life. Yeah.

Jennie (01:10:38.537)
are when your children are older and they feel like they can trust you with something that maybe they are feeling some shame about, that maybe they made a mistake, maybe they want to request like, hey, I've really been doing great with getting home on time. I'd like to extend my curfew. Instead of staying out later and just ignoring the rule, they're going to come to you first and you guys are going to be able to have like a conversation around. I can trust my parent.

Papa Rick (01:11:00.171)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (01:11:08.101)
to hear me out and make a decision with me, not blindly enforce a rule so that my only choice to get what I want is to break the rule, ignore them, disrespect, lie, et cetera. So your child, like you're gonna have a lot less fighting, a lot less rebelling, a lot less pushback, a lot less.

Papa Rick (01:11:20.507)
is to lie.

Yep.

Jennie (01:11:34.989)
like your kid mouthing off to you, all of those things that people hate about teenagers go away when you've been respecting them as a person since they were little. Or if you're starting right now and you have a teenager, give it some time and it will go away and you will have a respectful child.

Papa Rick (01:11:39.192)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (01:11:45.326)
Mm-hmm. Yep, yep.

Papa Rick (01:11:54.506)
Yep. Get used to get, get okay with working things out with your kids. You know, more, the more, the older they get, the better. Cause that's right. They don't feel they need to deceive you. They don't feel the only way to get what they really want. You know, if they come up with a good reason not to go to basketball practice, you know, it's like, well, I'm, I puked or whatever, you know, if there's, they know that you will.

hear it out and weigh it against your experience. That's all, which is all we really have. And it's just good, better and different and discuss them. And especially if by and large you let them make the decision, they're just sorting it out and letting you know. They're not afraid to let you know things because they know it well. Okay. It may result in a lecture or a talk. You know, it's going to work out. We have a talk, but, but. Okay. Then, then they're not carrying around, you know, you.

Jennie (01:12:47.896)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:12:52.758)
When you lie and do that kind of stuff, it makes you feel bad, you know, that you're being deceptive. Deception doesn't feel good. Yeah.

Jennie (01:12:58.177)
And it stresses you out. The person who lies is stressed trying to like, keep the lie going.

Papa Rick (01:13:03.538)
Yeah. So somebody's, so if somebody is, is habitually deceiving you, then there, I mean, there's a problem there. You need to make sure it's not on your side. Yeah. I mean, it's a good, uh, and a normal healthy thing. It's with you. If, if it's like, well, we talk all the time and make sure the doors are open. And I got, I love that metaphor. I got, I got to work on that, uh, lining the doors up and the boundaries up.

Jennie (01:13:13.613)
with you.

Papa Rick (01:13:32.222)
metaphor, make a door, make a door that matches their door, give and take.

Jennie (01:13:37.369)
Well, it's not even about matching the door. It's about when you are setting a boundary with someone, the mindset shift for you is, I want to open a door, not build a wall. How can I open a door to this person who I care about and who I want to hear me and know how to communicate with me and have my needs met? So how can I open a door to them instead of just

Papa Rick (01:13:44.206)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (01:13:59.958)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:14:03.564)
Yeah.

Jennie (01:14:06.989)
build a wall and tell them to like leave me alone.

Papa Rick (01:14:11.635)
Or make a door where I didn't have one before. You know, maybe you communicate in a new way and I'm like, oh, this is a new way. And there's, you know, there's that resilience and adapting that has to go on. Communications is a terrific thing to have with your kids. I always try to do that real hard with you guys.

Jennie (01:14:31.969)
Yeah. So yeah, so boundaries, boundaries are really important. And I think that there's, I know that because I see it all the time that with the, this parenting method, you know, relational parenting, um,

that there are a lot of authoritarian parents out there who think that allowing your child to have a say, allowing your child to have an opinion, make a choice for themselves, make the decision, et cetera, is you're being soft or you're teaching them to not respect you or...

Papa Rick (01:15:17.152)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (01:15:18.169)
whatever, and that's just a power struggle. And you don't need to have power over. Your job is to teach them. Your job is to guide them, to show them all the options, to show them how the world works, and then let them choose. Because regardless of whether or not you let them choose, they are going to be who they are going to be. And if you are constantly rejecting

Papa Rick (01:15:41.878)
Yep. And they're going to make choices.

Jennie (01:15:46.037)
who they are, they're just not gonna talk to you anymore when they're adults. They're not gonna trust you, they're gonna hide things from you, and you're not gonna have a good relationship with them when they become parents, like there's gonna be estrangement, et cetera. And your kid is always going to be who they are on the inside. And your job is to...

Jennie (01:16:11.333)
accept exactly who they are and impart wisdom and teach them about the world so that they can choose who they want to be, who they want to become. Do I want to be someone who is loyal to a team or is that not a value of mine? Maybe it's not a value of mine and so they choose not to play team sports anymore. Whatever it is.

Papa Rick (01:16:25.998)
teach them to make better choices.

Jennie (01:16:41.207)
Um...

Papa Rick (01:16:43.042)
Try to figure out if there's somebody harassing them. Talk to the school, yeah. Make sure they're sharing everything too. Run around and be a parent.

Jennie (01:16:46.369)
Well, yeah, that's a whole other, that's a whole other being bullied. Yeah. All the other things that play into, but they're, I mean, there are kids who like, it's like, I don't want to play a team sport. I want to play a, play a single, like I want to play a sport where it's just me.

Papa Rick (01:17:03.97)
Chess club, language club. Yep.

Jennie (01:17:05.573)
Whatever, yeah. Not everyone has to be good at the same things, at everything.

Papa Rick (01:17:12.27)
Sitting and smoking dope, playing video games, that's not an activity.

Jennie (01:17:15.989)
Yeah. So, well, and so the solution would be, okay, we value, we value health and wellness. And one of the ways that you get health and wellness is through physical activity. And one of the ways you get physical activity is through team sports. And so, but if the value is physical activity for health and wellness, you know, cardiac, cardiovascular, et cetera, staying, um, a healthy weight and, you know, not incurring diseases that come with obesity, et cetera.

Papa Rick (01:17:36.706)
Yep. Yeah.

Jennie (01:17:45.961)
Um, you know, then, then there are a lot of ways for your child to meet that need for themselves without playing a team sport. It doesn't have to be a team sport. It can be so many other things. Um, now, if the value is learning how to work inside of a group, learning to work with a team, learn like all of the things that come with that specifically, there are lots of ways.

Papa Rick (01:17:55.978)
Yeah.

Jennie (01:18:14.605)
that children can involve themselves in groups and team activities without playing a team sport as well. So it's just like, just don't pigeonhole your children. The world is a very, very vast place.

Papa Rick (01:18:20.502)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:18:29.238)
Yeah, certainly not into things you didn't get to do as a kid or, you know, don't, don't impose the, don't, there you go. That's the word I was looking for. Don't do that. Don't do it. Don't stand in the basketball stands and yell at your kids and correct them and nag them on the way home about what they did and don't do, don't do that. Let them figure out what they want to do and then make them stick. You know, if they commit to a season, stick to a season unless there's good practice, unless there's a some.

Jennie (01:18:34.061)
Yeah, don't live vicariously through your children. Ha ha ha.

Jennie (01:18:42.465)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:18:57.942)
Problem and then you help them through the problem and nice professional manner

Jennie (01:19:03.257)
Alright, I think...

I think that's, damn. So there's one more thing that I just, it's not even on here. I jotted it down after I printed this. Is that there's, so there's boundaries that you're gonna set between parents and children. And then there's boundaries, and then there's teaching your child in relationship to other people, how to hold their boundaries.

Papa Rick (01:19:13.556)
Major point. Cool.

Papa Rick (01:19:20.031)
a jockeying.

Papa Rick (01:19:35.51)
their own boundaries.

Jennie (01:19:36.225)
and also how to respect like their siblings boundaries or a friend's boundaries or whatever. And I...

Papa Rick (01:19:40.998)
Mm-hmm. Maybe that's another episode if you want to dig real into it.

That's kind of, here's the parent, here's the parent child thing, but then how to, how to manage your own boundaries at different ages. Maybe that's a whole nother thing.

Jennie (01:19:47.406)
Yeah.

Jennie (01:19:56.173)
Boundary, how to set boundaries as a relational parent and episode two will be how to help your child cultivate boundaries with.

Jennie (01:20:11.081)
anyone except you. So other family members with friends, with teachers, with how to express their boundaries. Ooh, how to express their boundaries. Okay. Episode two. See you guys our next episode.

Papa Rick (01:20:18.742)
Yeah.

Jennie (01:20:29.773)
We have three weeks in a row of guests. So episode two of Boundaries will be on October 20th.

Papa Rick (01:20:33.578)
Oh, really?

Papa Rick (01:20:37.922)
Okay, well, we can touch on it now if you want. I mean, we're starting with like write down boundaries, write down, you know, there's some thought to be done at least about that, or what's a value, what's a boundary, what are my values?

Jennie (01:20:54.305)
Well, so empowering, what I want to touch on, and it is, it's more than just a mention at the end of this episode, is how to, letting your child, you know, when grandma comes over and saying, go hug grandma, like, if your child doesn't want to hug grandma because they're four and don't really know grandma that well yet, they're not comfortable with it. Your job is to let grandma know.

Papa Rick (01:21:16.63)
Yeah.

Jennie (01:21:20.725)
If she doesn't want to hug you, she doesn't have to hug you. She can say hi, she can give you a high five, she can say nothing. She can...

Papa Rick (01:21:25.223)
Yeah. It can be kind of a you can say that as a reminder, not as a it's not good to do it as a command so much. Right. A lot of times that

Jennie (01:21:33.913)
Yeah. Well, the question is, how do you want to say hi to grandma? And then let them choose. Do you want to give her a high five? Do you want to just say hi and wave? Do you want to give her a hug? Do you want a fist bump? There's a lot of ways to greet people. So again, we don't have to pigeonhole our children. We can respect our children's boundaries and still teach them, hey, you need to say hello to this person who has entered our home. That's how we act.

Papa Rick (01:21:47.33)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:21:51.138)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:22:01.706)
Yeah, that's right. That's right. Is it? It expresses our values. Here, this is how we act in this home. And this is how we want to react. And if you're not comfortable with that, I'd kind of like to know why, because, you know, did grandma molest you or... You know, why don't you... It's, it's, no, it's called argument to extremes. It's like, so why, you know, you kind of want to be aware of... Well, it could be light, super light, you know, but...

Jennie (01:22:18.237)
Oh my God, you always take things to such a dark place.

Jennie (01:22:24.953)
Yeah, also known as taking things to a dark place. Ha ha ha.

Papa Rick (01:22:31.594)
Yeah, it's, you want to investigate a little bit. You want to understand why and talk about it.

Jennie (01:22:37.153)
Right, but this episode is about simply holding boundaries. We're not talking about abuse right now. So, okay. So the next three, let's see, the next three weeks we have guests. Next week is Emily Blake, who created a co-living paradigm for single moms.

Papa Rick (01:22:39.806)
Yes. We won't get, we won't get that dark.

Papa Rick (01:22:52.undefined)
Wow.

Jennie (01:23:03.869)
And she's creating her own, she's a single mom and she's been creating her own like village for co-parenting single moms together. And she's also, she's doing a whole bunch of other really cool stuff with her company as well. So two separate things, her as a parent and her as a company. And then

Papa Rick (01:23:17.495)
Wow.

Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:23:24.17)
And there's so much of that out there. That could, that could just be everywhere. Yeah.

Jennie (01:23:28.009)
And then Veronique is coming back to, we're gonna jump a little bit more into LGBTQIA plus stuff with parenting and specifically focusing on gender. And then Rebecca Mass, who is a medical detective in rare diseases. She's an NP, I believe.

Papa Rick (01:23:36.083)
Excellent.

Jennie (01:23:53.137)
and she specializes in people who can't figure out what the hell is wrong with them. They go to her and she figures out. She's like house, that show house.

Papa Rick (01:23:53.878)
Neuro.

Papa Rick (01:24:02.374)
Okay. A diagnostician.

Jennie (01:24:06.013)
She is in rare, yeah, in rare, weird diseases. Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:24:09.426)
That's a special key. Picking it apart, sometimes picking it apart is a whole job by itself.

Jennie (01:24:15.929)
So those are our next three guests. And she's a medical detective in rare diseases and she's also a mom of two. And so she's going to talk to us about, as a mom, navigating the medical field, navigating things like that. And then also just talking about being a parent and values and all of those things. So we have lots.

Papa Rick (01:24:41.038)
Cool.

Jennie (01:24:46.669)
lots going on the next few weeks. If you

Papa Rick (01:24:49.238)
This is fun. This is fun picking stuff apart in a little more detail. That's kind of cool.

Jennie (01:24:53.269)
I haven't mentioned this in the last few weeks, but we are still running our sponsorship campaign. So if you're listening and you haven't downloaded or listened to all the episodes, if you haven't followed, clicked follow yet, if you haven't given us a review yet, or if you haven't clicked subscribe on YouTube, please do that. Please do it right now so you don't forget. And if

Papa Rick (01:25:20.802)
Click all the buttons you can, it helps the algorithms. Do everything you can do. Please.

Jennie (01:25:23.529)
Yeah. And click download and it's all free to you. It doesn't cost you anything. Just click, click. Um, because then our, our numbers will hit a point where sponsorship will, uh, we'll be able to get more sponsorships and be able to keep doing this because it does cost money to produce and not like a little bit of money. It costs a lot of money to produce a podcast. And we are.

Papa Rick (01:25:42.166)
Yeah.

Jennie (01:25:53.857)
working our asses off to keep it going. And...

Jennie (01:26:00.425)
Yeah, we want to, this is our, this is our, this is a heart mission. Um, and, uh, but heart missions require funding too.

Papa Rick (01:26:10.602)
Yeah, yeah, we still like to eat.

Jennie (01:26:13.441)
Yes, we still have to eat and pay mortgages and stuff. So please click all of the buttons. You can click download on all the episodes and you don't have to listen to all of them right now. You can spend six months listening to them. You just click the download button and then it's just like saved in your Spotify. It doesn't do anything. So...

Papa Rick (01:26:15.494)
lights and yeah.

Papa Rick (01:26:29.474)
not just...

Papa Rick (01:26:35.71)
Yeah, yeah, just click. And if there's anything you want us to talk about, absolutely, you know, send us a comment and email and we will try to accommodate absolutely as quick as we can.

Jennie (01:26:42.561)
Yeah, email. Yep. Let us know.

Let us know what your parenting struggle is or whatever you're trying to figure out and we'll do a whole episode on it. And if you join.

Papa Rick (01:26:57.974)
Or if you've got a tricky question, you just want to hear us talk about something tricky.

Jennie (01:27:02.793)
Yeah. Ooh. Yeah. Challenge us. See if you can. Yeah. See if we could just do, we should do gotcha episodes.

Papa Rick (01:27:06.924)
Gotcha stuff, yeah.

Papa Rick (01:27:12.15)
Bring it on.

Jennie (01:27:16.494)
If we get enough, my dream is to get enough emails and questions that we can do like a once a month episode that's all, you know, where we kind of like speed round answer like multiple questions for people live.

Papa Rick (01:27:28.05)
Yeah, somebody had this weird situation or what do you do here? And sometimes the rules have to be suspended or changed or whatever. Yeah, let us know.

Jennie (01:27:31.747)
Yeah.

Jennie (01:27:39.737)
The other thing that you guys can do is click the share button and send it to all of your parenting friends and just say, Hey, I really want to support this podcast, like check it out, whatever. So yeah, help us out. Um, we're here to help you out and, uh, let us know what you want to hear. And thanks for being here guys. All right. Happy parenting and good luck out there.

Papa Rick (01:28:01.751)
Be well.