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Welcome to the OneMed Learn podcast. Hello, and welcome back to another podcast, from Manchester Medical School. I am doctor Genevieve Shimwell, a GP and clinical lecturer, at the university. And this is part 2 of our podcast where we're discussing the journey of a doctor with a disability. And we're back with the same guest as previous, Imran and Georgia.
Dr Genevieve:And I will hand over to Imran, first of all, to introduce reintroduce himself and and talk a little bit more about his journey through medical school.
Dr Imran:Thank you, Genevieve. So, yes, I'm Imran. And as discussed on part 1, I have a disability that I was born with, and I was fortunate enough to go to university to study medicine. So I went to the University of Liverpool. I originally spent 1 year at the University of Manchester as well doing biomedical sciences.
Dr Imran:So, my educational journey is that I didn't get in first time. So, therefore, I was planning on doing biomedical sciences for 3 years, at Manchester University and then reapplying for medicine. But fortunately enough for me, I reapplied and got into the University of Liverpool. So, I guess my journey is that prior to coming to med school, at University of Liverpool, I'd already done a freshers week at the University of Manchester, so I wasn't really as bothered of doing all the freshers stuff. And I you know, my family home is quite close to both Manchester and Liverpool.
Dr Imran:So I'm from the mean streets of Warrington, where we have an IKEA, which is what we're known for. And so we, you know, I didn't live too far. I was happy to spend the first few days with my parents and my brother and, you know, close friends and then obviously go over to the University of Liverpool. But from a freshers and student point of view, I had spent so before I went to the University of Manchester, I had spent a year recovering from an operation that required me to be in cast on my legs for up to 9 months. So I was bedbound for 9 months.
Dr Imran:And as mentioned in part 1 of the podcast, I had to relearn to walk. And this obviously impacted me from a student life point of view, because a lot of the the parties and the socializing, there's a lot of walking involved, which, is a was a bit of a struggle for me. And you kind of you know, you you're new into this environment. I didn't have any friends at the University of Manchester to start with on day 1. It was just a case of you meeting new people.
Dr Imran:You wanna meet more new people. You you you suffer from FOMO because they're like, oh, yeah. We're going to this party. We're going to that party. We're going out here.
Dr Imran:We're going out there. And the reality is you wanna you wanna just say to him, it's like, can we just sit at home and just chill? Because I'm tired. My back hurts. My legs hurts.
Dr Imran:I don't think I can walk there. I'm worried there's not gonna be a chair there. You know? If I'm sitting down, the reality is a lot of my friends will still stand up and talk, so I'm not on that level. So, really, I'm ignored.
Dr Imran:And they don't appreciate I've never sort of said this to them, and I've never aired this to them. So I kind of prefer clubs where, you know, I'm, like, really small anyway. So that's a bit of an issue because they're all giants. So I you know, it's it's nice when I go to a club where there's a stool because height difference wise, I'm probably the same height sitting down on a stool than stand it up. But, obviously, I have the issue of you kind of getting ignored going to those places, and you you go to places where you think, right.
Dr Imran:You're planning where's the toilet? Can I easily access that? Where's you know, do they have chairs that I can sit down on? You're wanting to get to places early because you think, I'm gonna have that spot. You've you're kind of marked in your head, and you're always planning these things when you're going out.
Dr Imran:And in freshers week, we couldn't do that, because it's a case of you you don't have a clue what's going on. You've got, you know, some person who's leading you here, leading you there, and you just have to deal with it and just suffer the aches after it. So I was in university. So my Liverpool was 2,005. So and a lot of these halls of residence where parties are happening didn't have lifts at the time.
Dr Imran:So, and the party is always on the the top floor. So I'd have to go, like, you know, 3 or 4 flights of stairs to get up there, which is always a struggle, and I'm having to do that. Being, you know, back is absolutely killing. I'm fidgety trying to stand up at the time. So at the time, I didn't use crutches in the 1st year of, both biomedical sciences and, medicine.
Dr Imran:So that was quite hard. So from that point of view that you you kind of suffer physically because you don't want to miss out on things rather than me saying, actually, this is my issue. You know, I I I struggle to go to these things. You know? But, you know, can we take our time and stuff like that?
Dr Imran:Whereas people like to move on. I hate moving on from places. Yeah. So that's one of my main issues.
Dr Genevieve:And did that feeling of needing or wanting to fit in with the crowd, go go along with other people, continue through your medical school placement? And did as in or did you feel able to continue through your medical school placement, and did as in or did you
Dr Imran:feel able to speak out and say about, how you might be impacted by the situation or
Dr Genevieve:placement, for example? Yeah. From my impacted by the situation or placement, for example?
Dr Imran:Yeah. From my end, I didn't want my disability to be a hurdle. So I tried to so they would offer me support, and I kind of showed face to say, no. I don't need the help. I can do this.
Dr Imran:When reality is, I probably should have just said, yes. I do need help. I would like that support. But I was too proud to say, you know what? Just because I'm disabled, I can still do those things, and I'll show you.
Dr Imran:I think one of the main issues I had from a medical school point of view is that my disability got worse during my med school. So 3rd year medical school, I wasn't mentally, I wasn't in a good place, and I kept myself to myself. I just dealt with it because, again, I was too proud. And I probably shouldn't have been. I should have said I need support.
Dr Imran:I I didn't acknowledge that my mental health wasn't in a good place. So that was the first thing. The second part was, 2 weeks before my exam for 3rd year, I woke up, and my right leg just lost all sensation and power. So over the course of, say, 5 you know, actually less than 5 meters, my leg dropped 4 times and I fell over. And I couldn't feel it.
Dr Imran:And this was 2 weeks before my exam. Mental health, originally not in a good place. And again, I didn't seek out and say this is my issue. And I think that was a bit of an issue. And, obviously, I told my my parents and my brother.
Dr Imran:And at the time, I don't think they understood what was going on, and didn't appreciate it. So they weren't as supportive as I would like them to be. Don't get me wrong. I loved them to bits, but I don't think they understood what was going on. Mhmm.
Dr Imran:So it felt like, as a how old was her? I must have been about 21, 20 2 year old who has you know, even though I've got a disability, yes, I walk with a limp, and I've not needed crutches up until that point to the point where now I I can't predict when I'm falling over. Right. So because I just literally lose all sensation in my leg. And that was just I I just couldn't deal with it in the mental health state that I was in at the time.
Dr Imran:So I think part of the problem was me because, I didn't speak out. And I think encouraging other people is, rather than putting a brave face on to say, actually, yes, I do need these supports. It's not you being less of a person. It's more that
Dr Genevieve:much for sharing that, Inman. I think that's a really powerful message to put out to to students, to seek advice and support in their situation. Georgia, I wonder if you'd be happy to share your experiences, through medical school.
Georgia:Yeah. I think, it's I've been pleasantly surprised with how supportive the medical school have been, with regarding my disability, regarding my remission from cancer. If you haven't listened to the first part of the podcast, I had a rare type of bone cancer when I was 15 years old, and it resulted me having some limb salvage surgery. So I have a metal and a prosthetic. And it does present with some problems, and I'm, you know, learning as I go.
Georgia:I think when I first started medical school, my mobility was a little bit decreased, as to what it is now. And I think you said your, mobility went, like, it worsened during medical school, didn't you?
Dr Imran:Yeah. So 3rd day medical school just deteriorated.
Georgia:Yeah. So in in antithesis, I think mine's actually improved the more I get used to my replacement and the more I learn to, you know, figure out what I can do. What is a normal pain? What is a you shouldn't be doing that pain.
Dr Imran:Yes. You
Georgia:know, I get used to it. And I think the medical school have been great. I had a occupational health appointment as soon as I, entered med school, and that's been followed up all the way up until final year. That I have, you know, things put in place in exams. Because if I sit down for too long, stand up for too long, you know, lack of movement, I can be in a lot of pain the next day.
Georgia:I can suffer it for it the next day. So they've put in breaks in my exams. So stop my exam timer, go outside, move around a bit, and go back to it. So that's one of the really great things. And then also on placement, they send an email to every single one of my supervisors explaining that I might need a seat when I wanna sit down.
Georgia:And it's one of the, surprisingly, it's one of the really common things that happen in a hospital is having to ask for a seat to someone who is more senior to you. And this can be a very awkward experience. And I feel the need to disclose my disability when I do ask for a seat. I have to kind of explain the whole thing again. But everybody's been really supportive of it, especially because I was interested I am interested in a career in surgery.
Georgia:And I was worried about that when I first went into medical because I noticed from the get go that I really enjoyed the practical side of it.
Dr Imran:But I
Georgia:knew that I'd have to stand up for a long period of time. And I think being proactive about it and asking the surgeons saying, do you think this will affect me? Can I sit down in theater? Can I do this in theater? Can I stand up and then sit down, like, move around?
Georgia:And they were all so supportive, and they said, you know, even when you do eventually get to that stage, as long as you tell your senior, and as long as, you know, we put those, things in place for you, it should be fine. So I think on the whole, I've had quite a positive experience, and I think part of that is being honest and proactively, seeking help when I need it. Yeah. Yeah.
Dr Genevieve:Yeah. Off air, Georgie, you'll tell us a little bit about how, your perception of having a disability, might differ from your friends or people's perception of around you. Would you tell us a little bit more about that?
Georgia:Yeah. I think, my disability is one of a few disabilities that are hidden and physical. And that presents a number of, you know, nuances and issues. I think one of the first things is is that my friends, at first, when you first meet me, nobody's gonna know that I've got this, you know, prosthetic joint, and nobody's gonna know that I might experience pain, or can't do certain things. And, I've been quite lucky that in med school, as soon as I tell my friends what's going on, they've been really accepting.
Georgia:And I think now my friends notice when I'm in pain more than me. They'll say, do you want us to slow down? Or do you want us to, take a break? Or if we go out, they'll say, let's try and get you a seat. So I'm quite lucky in that sense.
Georgia:But, I think during freshers week, it was difficult to do that, without having to explain my whole life story and mention the cancer thing because that comes with its own issues in that. I want people to get to know me and see who I am as a person, without, you know, associating me with the cancer and with my leg and, you know, whatever it may be. And, yeah, I think in freshers week, it was hard because I had a lot of fear of missing out. And I think I would just push myself and I'd go I'd go out, the whole night, not sit down the whole night. Next morning, be in so much pain, be like, oh god.
Georgia:Like, I don't know why I'm in so much pain, but really, I was just, like, should have been a bit more cautious about what I was doing, because, you know, I suffering the next day isn't great, but, also, I know I'm gonna have to replace this joint anyway at some point. So a night out isn't gonna affect you too much. So there's that part of it. And I think there's also the part of where I think I invalidate my own disability as well. I think, because I know that my I could have lost my leg when I was ill.
Georgia:I feel like having my leg is such a blessing and such a, you know, it it's amazing that I still have my leg.
Dr Imran:You feel very fortunate.
Georgia:Yeah. So fortunate that I have it, that I say, right, you shouldn't be complaining about that. Don't worry about it. You don't have this, like, disability. And I do invalidate myself.
Georgia:And it doesn't help that I think, You know, when I try to use services that I need such as, like, a disabled, disability access line in the airport, it doesn't help that people see a young girl, who doesn't have an obvious limp going to forward to the disability line and being like from a first glance, they're like, what are you doing? Like, you shouldn't be here. Yeah. So that's that's another thing in terms of
Dr Imran:other people's perception of me. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah.
Georgia:You've said this is something you've
Dr Imran:Yeah.
Georgia:And yeah.
Dr Genevieve:You've said this is something you you struggle with or you deal with on a daily basis. You have painful symptoms from it on a daily basis and, yes, sometimes
Dr Imran:you have
Georgia:of days I have it. Yeah. Over the years, it's gotten so much better. This year in particular, I've noticed a massive shift in my pain. And it might be that I'm just learning to learning what I can do and what I can't do with it, and being a bit more comfortable and
Dr Imran:Yeah. Knowing your limits.
Georgia:Yeah. Knowing my limits a bit more. Not feeling the need to go out in freshers week every night of the week. So, yeah, I think in terms of, like, my medical school experience, it's been it's been a learning curve, and I think it's actually improved over the years the more I get to know myself as well.
Dr Imran:Yeah. You mentioned, at the airport as well, the fact that you're you now expose your
Dr Genevieve:I do.
Dr Imran:Your leg.
Georgia:Yeah. And I think the reason I do that is to show people why I am using that line.
Dr Imran:But you shouldn't have to.
Georgia:I know. I probably shouldn't have to do that. But at the end of the day, I think with a hidden disability, people do make assumptions that you are just doing, like, being a bad person or, you know, trying to get to the front of the line Yeah. Especially when, you know, you're young and moving well. Yeah.
Dr Genevieve:Do you feel almost, therefore, kind of highlighting your disability empowers you more or or validates you?
Georgia:It makes me feel more confident.
Dr Genevieve:More confident.
Georgia:Yeah. More confident to go for what I need. It's like, you know, if I'm at the beach in Cyprus and I park close to the front or, you know, in a blue badge space, because I have a blue badge, I feel more empowered because people can see my leg and see the see the massive scar.
Dr Imran:Yeah.
Georgia:Because there's been times in the airport when I have worn trousers, and they've asked me to take my trousers off and show them, which is probably isn't allowed.
Dr Imran:I mean, it's very inappropriate.
Georgia:It's probably it's probably, you know, very inappropriate and not, you know, maybe against the law.
Dr Imran:Yeah.
Georgia:If I'm showing them proof. But, yeah, it's a bit difficult one because I feel very fortunate. But at the same time, I have to acknowledge I do have my limits as well. And Yeah. There's, you know, everybody's experience is different.
Dr Imran:Yeah. And it's that uniqueness. Like, everyone has a unique journey and experience and everyone has their own unique struggles as well, don't they?
Georgia:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Dr Genevieve:And I think from hearing you both speak, it's for me, what's really striking is that well, for Georgia's situation, obviously, through medical school was very different to Inverns, and you very much spoke out. You speak out about how, your situation, and through that, you're getting support and and that you found that the university has been really helpful in supporting you. And I think that's a good message to pass on to our listeners as well. Definitely. If you agree.
Georgia:Yeah. And I think finding a good supportive group of friends that aren't gonna go forward and not understand that you can't keep up.
Dr Imran:Yeah.
Georgia:I don't experience that as much anymore.
Dr Imran:Yeah. But
Georgia:at first, I was
Dr Imran:It's yeah. It's hard as a as a new fresher, no friends, and I think you just want to fit in. And I think my advice would be share that openly at the start so that you are sort of, you know, it's it's like you're aware of your limitations and that they are aware because the reality is the majority of them are not going to be aware of what you can tolerate.
Georgia:Yeah. Yeah.
Dr Genevieve:This is really powerful stuff, guys. Thank you so much for chatting with us today. And that kind of concludes our part 2. And we are going to see you for the next, part 3 where we're discussing life of a junior doctor or doctor living with a disability post medical school. Thanks again guys for joining us today.
Dr Imran:Thank you.
Georgia:Okay. Bye.