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SBC Leaders Podcast is a series of interviews with CEOs and decision makers at some of the betting and gaming industry's biggest, best and most innovative companies.
Sue (00:03.082)
Hi, this is Sue Schneider. This is the Leaders Podcast for SBC. And we have a special guest today. Rasmus Sojmark, who is founder and CEO of SBC, is joining us. You know, we we look at leaders who have had some history in the industry and and are still doing some great things, so you're natural. so welcome. Glad to have you on here. a lot of this is
Ras (00:25.858)
Thank you. that's very kind.
Sue (00:28.972)
We'd like to talk about some of the history because a lot of people are not aware really of, you know, how the industry got to where it is. And so just from you personally, if you could start with talking a little bit about what you did before you ever even got into the industry, I think that's a good place to start.
Ras (00:45.828)
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, thanks Sue for for having me. and thanks for the kind words. yeah, I think maybe if I dial back after the lovely years at high school, I was drafted into to the military and I had to stay for a few more years. I was kind of selected to be on the sergeant programme, even though that wasn't my intention and
plans. I was I was off to university, but they told me that I could ice those plans for another few years and they wanted me to go in join the sergeant school and train the sergeants and build out sort of the the teams as part of part of the program. yeah so I didn't really have much of a choice and I didn't sort of really think too much about it and say, okay, let's do it. So I ended up in sergeant school. I after that I ended up as a sergeant for about a year something.
I think it was about a year. And I was very good, learned a lot, a lot about psychology, management, leadership, and all those things that you actually come to realize today are quite beneficial when you end up in a CEO role, based on growth and other things, and you probably realize you're here without potentially a lot of training, understanding how you manage an organization and a company, especially a global one, that you look back and think, My God, actually there was a lot of good things back then that you know.
give you that sort of foundation for where you are today. So I think those years were very good, when I come to think think back about what really sort of helped define me and who I am today and how I am looking at leadership. So from from the military, I then went to university for about five and a half years. I studied yeah, I started German and economics for the first three years. And the last two years on my masters, I studied international marketing.
But while I was at a university, I did commit about four and a half years to telemarketing. So that's where I kind of found my passion for selling. when I went to an interview at the telemarketing company, I was told to sell a you know, like a coffee what's up? It's it was I think it was like a
Ras (03:07.32)
It was it was like a mock or something, like s something around Coffee and say, How do you want to sell that to me? Just very random. And I was like, I just sort of like blah blah blah and suddenly I realised what the hell did I just say? Can I try again? And then I redefined my sales positioning of the product and it was actually very good. And I said, Wow, that was good and this was the first time I tried to to do something around the selling part and it just sort of felt very good when I started to sit down and do it more naturally and think about it. So
I I started working in that telemarketing department where we were selling the biggest newspapers in Denmark, including Daily News, Sports News, all of that. And that sort of, you know, put you on a chair in front of a screen, you look at subscriptions, you call a person, you try and renew a subscription, retain, you try and acquire new business. So you sort of learn the terms that you're working with today as well.
And you you you try and and and convince the person that they should obviously be with your newspaper. And for me that came quite natural in terms of being myself, talking, listening, and just speaking with with with the many people. And I did that for four and a half years. And I think probably over the four and a half years, I was the one that did and probably still remained as the best sales result. So I was very good at selling just by being myself. And I had no idea when I started this. So
I kind of enjoyed that where I sat behind a screen with with a headset on like like I am today. And, you know, just sort of having that sort of opportunity to talk to someone and try and, you know, with an end goal of making sure they really wanted that product. So that gave me a lot of sales background and experience that I also use today. So we're talking about military, obviously university learning education, all of that, but also the practical, more physical work you do on the side where you actually also learn. And then you sort of
start thinking about the context of this, which we can talk about later. What is it really that defined you over the years? But I think all those three things, university, telemarketing sales, military has definitely defined me in terms of my leadership and sitting as a person on a fairly big company today, organizing events, which we'll come back to as well. So yeah, I think those things were were great. But also at university, what probably is the most important part is in the end of the bachelor of studies, you need to do a report, like a huge paper.
Sue (05:21.752)
Sure.
Ras (05:32.781)
I grouped together with a couple of colleagues, two of the girls in my study class, and we were we were looking at experience economies. How do you research experiences? How do you understand why people spend money to consume an experience, an intangible product, right? Which is why why do you buy something you can't bring with you? Like this is just that moment. if you look at maximizing utility, all this economic theory, you wouldn't invest in things that doesn't give you utility. And experience is like
Something you shouldn't be investing in. But obviously things change. People go to coffee shops, to cinemas, they watch a movie, they drink coffees with their friends. And is that surrounding the experience of being there that makes it that ultimate coming together? Now, I said, let's do something different here. Because at that point I started placing some bets online. I enjoyed it. I was watching live scores on the computer, watching live sports on TV.
I was sometimes following the NBA and the NHL very late in in in in in Denmark at that point, going on to like four in the morning in in in the US. And I enjoyed that. I I I did lose money on it, but I kind of enjoyed that feeling of you know, having something to do while you're also doing maybe your you're looking at your studies, you're combining things. It gave me a bit of
you know, escape maybe from some, you know, a bit of reality or enjoy things in different ways that I felt that was there was nice. And I felt in control when I was placing some bets. Like it was it felt nice. So let's look at those behaviors. Why don't we look at those experiences I had? Because clearly I'm not maximizing my utility when I'm losing money on this, right? So why do I keep doing it? And and how do I combine it with the sports I watch? When I go to the stadium and watch a live match and I'll go to the dance gespel down in the
supermarket or the kiosk to place a bit before I go. So I convinced them to do that. And we did a very good study. We even went to Olbaugh University for PhD students, professors to talk about the study because it was so up to date around communication and experiences and understanding the mentality of people and why they consume as they consume. So that study I then took into my master's and continued those studies and it ended up being my final dissertation.
Ras (07:49.305)
Where I wrote about sports betting in a contemporary society at that point, which was about 2005. so I always wrote this big paper. I interviewed about 21, 22 people. I transcribed the whole thing. And back then there was no AI. So I was listening to a tape and writing it all out. Loads of data. And I used that to write a paper, about 175 pages, that defined motivational behavior, psychology, the reasons behind why people.
engage in sports betting or gaming, right? So that then kind of gave me that whole sort of background in in in in in gaming. And I think the university obviously was was the big part of that. But many of the things as I said I do today is all that definition of what you did earlier. Okay, that's a lot of talking. You I don't know if you have anything to
Sue (08:40.334)
Well, that's the transition into how you got into the industry. So, that that's what I was curious about next then.
Ras (08:46.798)
Very true. Very true. And I think getting into the industry Sue is is exactly that, right? If you if you write that dissertation, you obviously have to defend it. you you you get a grade. My grade was very good on this. And my professor, funny enough, asked me, What should we do with this? Should we continue the research? So we actually went on and published a journal about
consumption of live betting at that point because live betting was still very early days. So we looked at what is the behavior going more into when you bet live on a game and stuff like you know, stuff like that. Like thinking like how what is the mechanics? And that got published into a journalistic aesthetic communication like experiences type
a book that was published with numerous generals in it and that was my first publication on the back of the dateset of theory what I created in university and we got commissioned by university book publishing company to publish a book on on all this data. And I had all this data and I started writing. I probably did about a hundred eighty pages, but I never finished because I at that point ended up going into the gaming industry.
which was instead of focusing on the book, I ended up working for a company in Copenhagen, which was called betsbrain.com. and I was in Illinois, I was like, but that that was the only real company in the industry I could find. And they had a a job search piece out in the newspaper I found actually too late but I applied for it.
And they asked me to come over, and that was in Copenhagen. I was in Olin, so it was one hour, 45 minutes. I was thinking that's a long commute back and forth. But I did, and the owner of the company was a person you know, is is a guy called Eva Gross, who's the founder of Evermatrix. And back then it was bedbrain.com. So he hired me in and I started working for him in sales. and that was my starting point in the industry.
Ras (10:57.31)
one of the guys I work with back then is is is a common friend of ours, Lars, Dam Jonsen as well. But he left shortly after. He joined Mansioncasino.com in Gibraltar. And after six months into the job, I suddenly went from just starting in the company to taking over sales. So obviously that part is is is Epic Rose trusting me back then to do the sales, which I owe him a lot for. And he was he was a good he was obviously a good friend and a good mentor and a smart guy. But
As things evolve and people get ambitious, you know, people might end up doing the different things, so which I'll come back to how my story evolves. But I think what happened after I joined them is that in 2007, Eb and I talked about what if we move to London? We keep the main quarter in Copenhagen, but I moved to London and I would start being closer to Labrokes, Coral.
Bed 365, all the guys back then with the big biggest market being in the UK. So I I wasn't too connected to London at that point. And I said, why not? So I convinced my wife and we moved to London, probably with a few years in mind. And now we've been here for about 20 years. what happened when I moved to London is I went to ICE and other events at that point, and I met a guy called Steen Hornsleton, and Steen Hornsleton.
was the founder of Bet on Bet. So he just sold off that company, which was a betting exchange. And that betting exchange was a company he built over years and then he sold it. He cashed out and then he wanted to do something new. Now I met him because he was still working with Bet on Bet and I said, you got to be listed on BetBrain.com. You gotta show your odds. You gotta compare them against Pinnacle Bet365. And he said, okay, okay, Ras, here's the deal. And we got on pretty well, right? So
We we started talking, do we do some business together? What should we? Da da da da da and our families became good friend. I went to his wedding in Jamaica, all of this. but I also introduced him to Eber Gross at a dinner. So I brought Stian in and said, Listen, this is Diane, he's a new client, and they started talking, they got on well. And Stian had this idea, he wanted to build a sports book for casinos. Now and what better way of doing that?
Ras (13:18.062)
Then taking the feed from BedBrain that is aggregating all these odds and creating the data feed that would support that sports book. Now, this is the story of how Everymatrix originated. This was initially odds matrix, then we acquired the Gam Matrix platform. And then you suddenly had two tools. You had a platform, you had a sports book, you could put it together, and that was when Everymatrix as a more group company was born.
So early days I was one of the part of the founding team of Ebbe Matrix and having the role of commercial. So my job was to sell the product because it was a private owned company, pr predominantly owned by Ebbe, Stien, me, and and Jesper. So my job was to bring in the the revenue to support the growth of the business as a private business with no external investors. So we did well with that. There was a lot of hard work, and in 2012.
I decided to to exit the company because I was gonna pursue my own ambitions. Now, as I said, EB had given me a lot of knowledge, know-how, understanding. And obviously, when people learn a lot, they also start thinking, do I do my own thing or do I stay? So good friends and they done exceptionally well. I'm super proud of them. but I had what you know and what we're talking about, a company called SBC.
And I had another social gaming business that I was weighing that how can I make this work? And this is sort of the build up to what you know as SPC today. Sorry, I'm talking a lot.
Sue (14:49.764)
Well, I I I think something you and I share is that we're both community builders. And for those that don't know SBC, it originally stood for Sports Betting Community. So that was the intent really is to build that, which is is great. Did you did you have any idea at that time that it was gonna, you know, grow into what it's been? I mean, you started out pretty modestly pulling people together. So talk about how the how that went originally.
Ras (15:11.566)
Yeah.
Ras (15:16.323)
I I I think one of the people to thank for where we are today is is is also yourself because what I did initially is I I raised some money for trying to push social gaming and tech because tech was very big back then. Social gaming was big, so I believed in that. SPC from twenty tw twenty twelve is still treated a little bit more as a side product. But at Gixie, your event back then in Montreal.
I was introduced to a guy called Andy McCarran. so in Montreal around your event, we were there, we decided to leave the event for sick and go to a local bar and have a drink. And I was introduced to Andy and we started talking. And when we were back from Montreal he did a interview with me because he was the editor of betting business. And he covered me with and actually I think I have it over here. yeah, it's it's over there somewhere. And it was when I was at
Bedbrain.com, right? And and then I sort of looked at Andy and thought, okay, as you're right, sports betting community, early days, betting business, the best sports betting publication. What if Andy would consider taking over SPC and help me there while I was also working on the other company? And Andy has never done anything, let's say, crazy. He was very set where he was.
But you know, I can be quite convincing. And I said, Listen, I'm gonna look after you and I'm gonna sort the the salary for the first year and we'll do this and that. Are you interested? And he said, Okay, let's do it. And he joined in. So obviously, if it hadn't been for your events, I probably would never have had the great Andy McCarran in the company, which has been absolutely crucial to drive it forward on the content side, which is where we started. We had the small events, the meetups and all that. Every quarter and they were great, but it wasn't
the business case driving the company to where it was today. It needed a bit of content and events together, gradually position this and then start taking the company forward, right? so yeah.
Sue (17:14.224)
That's great story. and you and you two are a dynamic duo there, so they complement each other very well.
Ras (17:20.354)
I I don't think we ever really had any arguments to any bigger extent. Like we there's a good complement, complementary sort of skill set sitting between us and it's not always easy as you grow and things change and things evolve and you gotta learn to do new things and take on more responsibilities and that. you have more people to look after and you just need to show that you are capable of of of doing that. And I think Andy and myself have been quite good at that.
But yeah, but we can talk about how the company has evolved of course based on
Sue (17:52.624)
Yeah, yeah. And and what year was that that the two of you teamed up then?
What year?
Ras (17:59.945)
what year? I think it was I think I think Andy joined about late two thousand thirteen. It was. Yeah.
Sue (18:07.056)
Okay, great. Now when you kind of look back over that, what what part i well you are an inveterate salesman and there there's no doubt that's where your love lies and and your skills lie, but as you look back, what what have you enjoyed the most about building SBC up?
Ras (18:25.914)
Well, I mean, I think you know, if you look at one thing, I think this is this is an interesting part. I mean, you build a business, there's obviously it's good to build and see revenue coming in, a healthy company, good profit margins and all that. And you also start thinking, I mean, are you gonna sell a company? Are you gonna create a legacy more so you have something you keep building on that become more meaningful? Like for me, the way I see SBC is it's something I really like to do. I really thoroughly enjoy
organising events. I cannot for the world see anything that can be more fulfilling than looking at other people that are here because of what you're doing. And if you deliver something great, even good, very good to great, perfect, difficult, they they are enjoying themselves, they have good experiences. That's because you have created this, right? And then the question becomes how do you make a business out of something without damaging those fine lines between what
the audiences want and what you owe to give to them because you take their time versus creating a business around it. Right. And this is where events isn't just events. It's a question about an ecosystem that you're in. And we're in the gaming ecosystem, which is a lot more than just sports betting or casino. It's content, it's intelligence, AI coming in. It's an ever evolving industry that ties in with tech, right? So one is an AI leader. Here is also an AI leader in another industry, right? It's it's the
the multiple levels that you're trying to understand. Now, I think what SBC and I enjoy with it is it has a very good position. It's probably the most central player, if you look at it, it in the entire industry at this stage. There are other companies, of course, but I think SBC has the luxury of sitting right at the center to offer events, gatherings, hospitality experiences, they offer content, intelligence, data, all
in one great central position in that ecosystem. Now it's up to us to make sure that resonates with the different types of audiences. Anyone from an operator to a supplier to a regulator to an association to an investor to a startup to say to a lottery I mean all of these are different companies. They would attend an event or read your content, participate in what you offer in different ways.
Ras (20:49.942)
it becomes more and more difficult to target people and deliver on what I mentioned in the beginning, give that thing that makes sense for that particular person that sits within that audience group you you you you're talking to. And in my view, it's the entire industry, right? That is our audience. We don't know everyone, of course not, but we need to know the key ones and then we work from there because when you build an event, you got to make sure your key audiences are there and also the quantity.
That builds out to have a good reach and make it seem like a strong event right? But to continue with that, you need to have support from any other side of the business, which is what we're talking about. SPC has built a good position with many more things than just events, right? So what I like with SPC and what I enjoy is is is now is trying to figure out how do I make this work the best. Is definitely what
Sue (21:23.312)
Mm.
Ras (21:46.305)
One is to sit in that position doing all this and knowing that you are making people happy, giving them purpose, giving them reasons to come this annual like gathering we have in Lisbon. I see this as the annual gathering point for the entire industry, right? Some disagree. Most people hopefully agree, right? And we say it's the greatest show in gaming. So you will be offer great experience with business at the forefront. But there are many other things that will complement that to make you feel like you belong here.
And you leave with the feeling, wow, right, business, but also I enjoyed being there. And happy people enjoying it are more likely to do better business. So it sort of keeps bouncing back and forth. Now we have a multitude of other events that also work in different regions around the world. They support us in the audience build that we're doing to make sure that everything sort of ties together.
And then you obviously have all the media, the content, the data, the intelligence that we apply to that to understand the audiences better. And I think this is this is something I really enjoy because it's a challenge to make this work better and smarter as technology is growing, industries are growing, people are growing. You just gotta continue to grow with it. And I think we're good at that. But also, as you know,
than many people don't know C SPC is that it isn't just that straightforward. You you you you really gotta work with the audiences to make sure that you don't just think you know what they want. You really got to try and understand on their terms what it is they want. So yeah, I think I enjoy hosting things, but also enjoy the challenge of making things come together to really be that central player in the ecosystem.
Sue (23:30.993)
Mm-hmm. And it is a great feeling when it all comes together. I that's that's just an amazing thing when you when you get to experience that. what have been some of your bigger challenges as you've built the company?
Ras (23:35.417)
Absolutely.
Ras (23:45.815)
yeah, I I I think I I would say if you talk about entrepreneurs and founders in general, I think the biggest is family. because obviously I got two lovely girls, I got a lovely wife, and you sometimes get a bit sidetracked because obviously the company is one big family, but that family shouldn't be more important than your own family. So how do you balance the two? How can you rationalize working
With a business that requires constant travel, constant attention to clients, and I'm known for a person that is always available. And I always wanted it to be like that. And I replied to people, whatever it is, but I'm struggling to continue doing that, which is a change, right? Because I just can't. it's impossible anymore to do all this. And the the the thing about the company as well is you look at a founder, right? The problem with a founder is if a founder is too hands-on.
It it stays like that. It's very hard to scale it. But unfortunately, in many cases, I have had so many experiences across my growth in the industry that I know a lot of things. I know sales, I know relationships, I know how to do events, I know content, I know media, I know who the right people are. It just it comes natural to me. Like this is experiences just being segmented almost in my brain of how the things work. And I really like to be able to to look at things and have solutions almost immediately. That is also
partly what I enjoy about SBC, but it's not scalable and it's not sustainable. So I think the biggest challenge is to really grow the business with the right organizational structure and finding how that is going to work and be done because yeah, we are growing and it it's it's just getting getting that right is difficult because as I said, when you're at home
You need time. You need time to go away from all the calls, meetings, and all that, the emails and just think about that, right? Think about how am I gonna structure things. How do I connect all the dots, the different teams, the different people? How do I make people more efficient without making them work harder, right? How do I make people understand that you ask them to do more isn't about asking them to work harder, just work smarter, right? And I don't even have time always to talk about that. So I have to rely on my
Ras (26:10.798)
direct reports, they're capable of communicating that down. And and then that's also then communication for me that needs to happen, right? So all these things get very tricky. And at the same time you you also try and cut off because when you you you get home, you want to spend time with the family, right? Because you don't have that time always with your kids that they don't necessarily understand why you have to do all those things, right? so how do you balance these things is tough. And I think my biggest problem is I still
tend to think I can do too many things and I know too many things, that I like to be very hands-on and involved, that means that it's very time consuming. So that is my biggest challenge to make sure I can get away from that. But that also requires my team, my company to understand how they support me. It's it's a two-way street. It isn't just my thing to fix. I bring in the people that need to help me fix that, right? And I don't think this is a unique thing. I think pretty much every company would have it like this.
And it's really hard to deal with it, right? Because sitting at the top can be a very, very lonely place. It's like every time you make a decision, the people that tend to disagree with you will be louder than the ones that agree with you. So personally, I'm not I'm not particularly good. I've never been good at taking criticism. Not that I react to it, but I tend to build it up in myself because I think it's probably my fault then. I did something wrong. I have to learn as well. And I learned that to not think like that.
Because it will wear you down. Because you have to trust your own instincts, your own decisions, whether it's right or wrong. And it will never fit everyone. But you you got to understand that is the way you should be doing things because you have brought the company to where you are. So there there are many things there, Sue, but I I think it's a probably the same dilemma that most other founders with a size of 150, 200 people company are at, right? Because they they they they look at legacy as well. It's kind of hard to not want to, you know.
Sue (27:50.161)
Ras (28:06.596)
fulfill that sort of achievement of what you build to make people really see, wow, this is something, right? And I don't know where that end goal is because I'm not finished. I'm not satisfied with where we are yet. I'm very ambitious. I want to do more, right? But on the other hand, also if I look back at some of the things that happened over the years, I can tell you that one of the issues is I really struggled to explain to people initially what I was doing with OS Comparison and
Bit brain and the industry and MMH people like they didn't understand the technology at that point because the technology discussion weren't as advanced as the ones I was working in. So it felt like years I was working, like not being able to talk to people. And now it's becoming more simplified. I organize events, right? And I do content. And it it's it's also now having been able to get from that point to this point to that point and have something that is so so big and so so strong, so reputable, so well.
received is something that you obviously want to understand how do you continue like this and how do you grow it without jeopardizing those things. So many challenges here. Sorry, I keep the it's it I could go on about these things, but it's it's it's also opportunities. But it's opportunities as well. Like I like to turn a challenge into an opportunity by being aware about what the challenge is and not denying it. Right. So
Sue (29:16.658)
You are passionate about it.
Sue (29:28.114)
Well, let's come into present day and talk about where SBC is headed and you know, clearly events and publications side of the business is very crowded, very competitive. So if you could talk about that maybe in terms of how SBC is differentiating itself and in terms of of where it's going. I think that would be important for for folks to hear.
Ras (29:51.163)
Yeah, I I I I I would be a little bit bullish and I would probably happily say that I think SPC is right now the one that is at closest to the center of the ecosystem than any of the other organizers and media companies. we try and do that, cooperating with as many as we can, but obviously there'll be competition happening. but yeah, I think SPC is just very committed
to our audience and making sure that what we deliver is top experiences, top hospitality. We understand that by going the extra mile, doing things for people will pay itself back. And you gotta trust in those investments because it's also easy to pocket revenue and see the numbers and keeping the right margins versus diminishing these margins because you invest back in the products. I I don't think SVC has ever looked at pocketing money. We always kept investing back in
Bag in, back in. And I think people are seeing this. And I think more people are seeing this now. Because it isn't just something we're doing now. We've done it for the last five, six years. But it's been harder to get the appreciation. I think I wouldn't say appreciation, maybe the understanding of the different differences between the organizers and the products. SBC has committed to continue investing in and doing more and more and more. Not necessarily just around making business easier and better.
But supporting all the other parts, elements of an event, of a community, of of content, of intelligence, that adds to the overall of making it better. That will build business as a better foundation for the event because all the other elements will support that. Now that is how you need to understand events, because that's not that straightforward. But understanding all these elements, how there's a synergy, how they complement one another.
Then you invest here, you do this, you do that, and overall the business will just keep going like this. Boom. Without necessarily looking like you're investing in business, you are. So I think that's what we're looking at and definitely understanding our audiences and being able to say that any type of audience at this event, to the scale of forty thousand people we want in an event like Lisbon just requires a lot of work. And I think this is what SBC has been doing, much better than anyone else.
Ras (32:11.042)
And I think this is our competitive advantage that we invest in our products, in our people, compared to the rest. And that will give us that central position that we can sustain in the ecosystem, yes.
Sue (32:20.146)
Mm-hmm. Great.
Sue (32:24.966)
Right, right. let me ask you one last thing and that is i you know, if someone came to you that was looking at getting into our industry, what would you say to them? What advice would you give them?
Ras (32:39.558)
I I guess it depends on how they want to get in. What type of role company they're looking at. Are we talking events? Are we talking just sort of working and gaming? okay. I I guess very simplistic is I I can't curse or swear, but I f you C I K I N G I think it is, love the industry. it's great. I never for any second
Sue (32:50.106)
In general, in general.
Ras (33:08.954)
question why I'm in this industry. I think it used to be a lot easier in the early days with certain things and it was traveling and things were less regulated and controlled. So it was different. But then it changed and it makes sense because the government needs to realise that gaming is absolutely good. It contributes, it helps. And if you don't look at the
the sort of regulatory side of it, it would just go as a black market and it will happen. People gamble, people like to bet, people shake hands and say, I can beat you at that. All is gambling, right? You also have prediction markets today. Is it gambling or not gambling? Maybe you see it's not gambling, but essentially it's still two people taking a stance on something, right? And it kind of is very similar, let's put it like that. And I just think that that that how the industry has changed is a good thing of course, but it's very different.
But I don't think it's put me off in any way because I think it's the right direction, the right progress, that we're getting a much more connected, regulated industry where you can operate without less scrutiny, even though the scrutiny will be tough to deal with in terms of taxes and and and and finding ways to deal with very low revenue margins because you are paying so much back or various
ways of of asking you to pay back you know whatever it is you earned, not understanding how you need to acquire customers. So you don't have the budget to acquire customers, what you're gonna do, right? So th there's many, many things that need to come into the bigger perspective here. But overall, if the regulatory scheme can keep evolving, more more jurisdictions understand how to regulate better by looking at the ones that do it more successfully, then I think it's it's it's it's gonna keep benefiting the industry a hundred percent.
Now, getting into this industry, I mean, why not? Why wouldn't you get in? It's it's a mix of fun, entertainment, joy, games, play, it's regulation, politics, legal, it's it's global, right? It's access to any market, it's it's something that is is quite unique. And probably it's it's a mix of some of the the the the different types of emotions and pleasures that people like to experience when they
Ras (35:31.436)
engage with something. So if you can have that connected into the way you work in your industry, it's gonna be quite self fulfilling, I think. So w finding a job in this industry, you probably won't leave again. Let's put it like that. So why not?
Sue (35:44.115)
We do have that reputation and and it's it's well deserved. Again, I really appreciate your time, Ras, coming on and again we've been talking with Rasmus Sojmark, founder and CEO of SBC, and we're gonna wrap it up now, so thank you all for watching.
Ras (35:46.296)
That's true.
Ras (36:02.203)
Yeah, and thanks for having me, Sue. Been a pleasure.