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You became a coach to help people — but no one told you how to build the business behind it.
Coach as Entrepreneur is the show for coaches who want to go beyond referrals and create a real business that supports both their clients and their family. Each episode explores the systems, strategies, and stories that help coaches simplify marketing, attract the right clients, and grow sustainably, without burning out.
Whether you’re just starting or looking to scale, this is your roadmap to running your coaching practice like a business… and doing it with heart.
Build the system. Serve your clients. Support your family.
# 251031\_Podcast\_Craig Fortune
[00:00:00] **Craig:** You have to consider yourself a business person first, not a coach first. You've got to be a [00:00:10] business person first. You've got to understand that, you know, if I come out of marketing, because I'm an excellent marketer and want to contribute and I want others to see and hear the [00:00:15] value that I have around marketing, if I don't do all those other things that are as important as the [00:00:20] actual coaching, then I won't have those clients to coach in the first place.
[00:00:23] **David:** Today, our guest is Craig Fortune, an executive coach based in New Zealand, who helps cognitive [00:00:33] professionals escape the productivity trap. His company, ProMind Solutions [00:00:37] teaches people how to [00:00:40] build work habits that actually stick without adding more to your plate. Craig, [00:00:45] thank you for joining today. I'm excited. We've already been chatting, and I wish I started [00:00:50] recording earlier because that was a good, you know, 10 minutes of good conversation. Would you mind [00:00:55] introducing yourself to our audience about who you are and where you're at right now?
[00:00:59] **Craig:** Yeah, [00:01:00] sure. firstly, thanks very much, for having me on. I'm extremely excited to, be here chatting [00:01:05] with you and hopefully one or two people listen in. I'm sure they do. Like you said, this is our third [00:01:10] conversation actually, isn't it? And every conversation
[00:01:13] **David:** Yeah.
[00:01:13] **Craig:** for me anyway, has been, [00:01:15] just so useful.
[00:01:16] I really enjoy our conversation, so I'm looking forward to this one as
[00:01:19] **David:** Thank [00:01:20] you.
[00:01:20] **Craig:** in terms of, of my, oh, you are welcome. In terms of my, where I'm at, I, I've [00:01:25] been for a little over, just a little over a year, so still very newer. [00:01:30] Prior to that, I've had, a long experience as a and educator here in New Zealand. [00:01:35] So I taught secondary school for a long time, and then I owned my own business, for a number of years, about [00:01:40] 12 years as well. So, to coaching. So fairly new at [00:01:45] it, still learning lots. I probably come from a different perspective, having, those two roles, [00:01:50] historically.
[00:01:50] **David:** And I think your perspective as an entrepreneur coming into [00:01:55] coaching is has an impact on the way you approach your coaching business too, right? [00:02:00] Because you've successfully built a business running that for 12 years, [00:02:05] which is no small feat, right? I don't know about in New Zealand, but in the US.
[00:02:09] I think it's like [00:02:10] 80% of small businesses that start and the first two years end up failing. So [00:02:15] for you to have,
[00:02:16] **Craig:** in New Zealand, so very, very similar, but just slightly higher.[00:02:20]
[00:02:20] **David:** mm-hmm.
[00:02:20] **Craig:** think.
[00:02:21] **David:** Okay. Yeah. So then being able to do that for 12 years, [00:02:25] I think one is, that's impressive. Like not everybody can do that. So congratulations for [00:02:30] doing that. And, and so I think that brings into a perspective when you're building your coaching [00:02:35] business. ' cause you've already got that experience of building a successful business.
[00:02:39] Before we go [00:02:40] too far deep into the business of coaching, I'd love to know, ' cause, so you said you were an [00:02:45] educator. You started a business. How did you, so this is now basically your [00:02:50] third career? Correct.
[00:02:51] **Craig:** It worked pretty well. Before I was a teacher, I was a butcher, [00:02:55] so
[00:02:55] I got a butcher's qualification too, so technically you could say it's my fourth career. But,
[00:02:59] **David:** [00:03:00] Yeah. Okay. So how did you come to coaching though? How did you find out about [00:03:05] coaching and why did you want to even become a coach? Hmm.
[00:03:08] **Craig:** that's a really good [00:03:10] question and I, and I love this conversation about the why. 'cause for me, the [00:03:15] why and purpose are hugely valuable in everything that we do. Right? So, [00:03:20] like you said, and the congratulations for running a business for 12 years was possibly premature [00:03:25] because we actually put our business into voluntary liquidation. After 12 years. So we went through COVID. Our [00:03:30] business was looking after five to 13-year-old children, so out of school programs, so [00:03:35] before school and after school and school holidays. COVID really hurt us, as you can imagine, [00:03:40] work certainly here in New Zealand. Work behaviors changed a lot of their work from home and those kind of [00:03:45] things.
[00:03:45] So really killed us. So, March last year, we put our [00:03:50] into liquidation. So there's a
[00:03:52] **David:** I
[00:03:52] **Craig:** there, right?
[00:03:53] **David:** see.
[00:03:53] **Craig:** It's a failure, however you [00:03:55] want, put it during your business journey. I had the odd coach here [00:04:00] and there. We've got the, um, organizations here in New Zealand provide free mentors, free [00:04:05] coaches for a limited period of time and whatnot.
[00:04:07] So I've always taken advantage of that. So I'd always [00:04:10] known about business coaches. And this is a, a very long-winded answer to your [00:04:15] question, but it, this is important to provide context to that question. So [00:04:20] through our business journey through that 12 years, I also, was severely burnt out [00:04:25] and about six or seven years into that journey, and as a result, I was actually diagnosed with [00:04:30] depression. Then moving forward, then we had this period where business wasn't [00:04:35] great and we ended up going to liquidation. if I go back to that period of, of burnout [00:04:40] and depression, it was really important for me to understand why I
[00:04:44] **David:** Mm-hmm.
[00:04:44] **Craig:** were [00:04:45] making good money. Our business was successful.
[00:04:46] This is pre COVID, making good money, successful business, holidays overseas, all, [00:04:50] the traps of success, right? But
[00:04:52] **David:** Right.
[00:04:52] **Craig:** getting this diagnosis with depression, so I wanted to [00:04:55] understand how that can happen. So I did a lot of research, a lot of reflection and self review. [00:05:00] Liquidation came business, went under holiday for about two months without a job, then I [00:05:05] decided, I, I actually spoke to a friend of mine, A friend of mine said, you know, it's time to get your ass off the [00:05:10] couch. what do you wanna do? What are you good at? What are you passionate about? What are you like? And [00:05:15] those questions were really quite straightforward for me to answer. I love working with people [00:05:20] and I love being able to facilitate change. You know, with through [00:05:25] education, information, knowledge.
[00:05:27] I love to see people grow and develop. And [00:05:30] because of my experiences with burnout and depression, I was hugely passionate about we are [00:05:35] working. Because, I mean, the burnout rates in Australasia here anyway, are over [00:05:40] 50%. It's significant. Average number of hours of productivity per day is quite [00:05:45] low worldwide. So what are we doing for the rest of those hours? And also what are the behaviors that we are [00:05:50] doing as professional cognitive workers that are contributing to this sense of [00:05:55] overwhelm, the sense of burnout, the sense of exhaustion, this poor levels of wellbeing. And that was [00:06:00] really important for me to try and, I guess, facilitate some change in [00:06:05] other people.
[00:06:05] So they didn't go down the same road that I went down.
[00:06:08] **David:** Yeah.
[00:06:09] **Craig:** how I got [00:06:10] into coaching. Long story.
[00:06:11] **David:** Yeah. No, I think it's, I mean, it's very important, right? [00:06:15] 'cause well, one that's really surprising that. The number is so high. The burnout [00:06:20] number in New Zealand is so high.
[00:06:21] That's actually kind of scary because that means like every other person you [00:06:25] see,
[00:06:25] **Craig:** Yep. Yep. And this is recent.
[00:06:27] Data, recent research from a, they're an EAP [00:06:30] employment assistant program provider called Sonder, which is based in Australia, but it [00:06:35] has a presence here in New Zealand
[00:06:35] **David:** Mm-hmm.
[00:06:36] **Craig:** So this Australasian data, 51% of [00:06:40] people in the last 12 months. In the 12 months prior to this body of research, which only came out [00:06:45] about 12 months ago, 51% of people said in their previous 12 months, they had [00:06:50] identified as being burned out. That's huge. It's scarily huge, also [00:06:55] really avoidable if we make
[00:06:57] **David:** Yeah.
[00:06:57] **Craig:** few skills and tricks, right?
[00:06:58] **David:** I'm still just reeling [00:07:00] at that number because that's every other person you meet has just burned out.
[00:07:04] That is frightening. [00:07:05] 'cause I know, during COVID, I, I was burning out. Right. Just because the stress of [00:07:10] work, not being able to travel, all of that stuff, I actually have kind of [00:07:15] actively decided to try to put as much of those work years into a box and just [00:07:20] put it away.
[00:07:20] **Craig:** Yeah. Put a lid on it. Yeah. Tough.
[00:07:23] **David:** Um,
[00:07:24] **Craig:** Must have been a tough time.
[00:07:24] **David:** [00:07:25] yeah, it was extremely difficult time, I think for so many different reasons. Right.
[00:07:29] **Craig:** [00:07:30] Mm,
[00:07:30] **David:** but even so the last, data is the last 12 months. Within the last 12 [00:07:35] months, people are still facing burnout.
[00:07:36] **Craig:** yeah. So that, this was the 12 months prior to the research coming out. The [00:07:40] research came out about 12 or 14 months ago. so it's
[00:07:43] **David:** Okay.
[00:07:43] **Craig:** last two to three years [00:07:45] anyway. That's the case.
[00:07:46] **David:** Okay.
[00:07:46] **Craig:** if we look too at the stats, the worldwide stats, [00:07:50] post COVID, the burnout and exhaustion rates, and they are very different.
[00:07:54] Those two [00:07:55] things are very different, just skyrocketed. And if we a look at, and I haven't [00:08:00] actually done the, the correlation in terms of, of facts of figures, but straight after COVID, there [00:08:05] was this huge amount of, people working from home, right? That was the push. Don't come into the office, [00:08:10] work from home, whether it was mandated by the, your government or doesn't matter.
[00:08:13] that was seen as best practice. [00:08:15] Take that top work home. So what did companies do? invested it in a laptop and that was [00:08:20] it. And they said, here you go, Davey. Here's your laptop. Just take your work home. And that
[00:08:23] **David:** Yeah.
[00:08:24] **Craig:** a recipe for [00:08:25] disaster because I've come from this environment where I work nine till [00:08:30] five, I'm in this cubicle, or I'm in this particular office.
[00:08:32] I know that's my, those are my [00:08:35] boundaries. That's where I do my work. And I know what I've gotta do when I'm here. All of a sudden I've been given this [00:08:40] laptop and all of this freedom, and either work is just continuous [00:08:45] or many distractions and reasons for procrastination that I'm not getting anything done.
[00:08:49] Then I'm getting [00:08:50] my boss. In my case, you know, we, there was no education, no information, no training, [00:08:55] just here's your laptop, David. Go and do it. So, no wonder those, number of, of [00:09:00] burnout cases
[00:09:00] **David:** Yeah.
[00:09:01] **Craig:** rose. Right.
[00:09:02] **David:** Yeah. I mean that makes a ton of sense, right? [00:09:05] So previous to the internet and, smartphones, you went to work, work ended. It [00:09:10] was in a box, and then you were free then with the internet and your [00:09:15] smartphone. Now you're, somebody can ping you at any time of day and so you're [00:09:20] always like somewhere thinking about work and then going and doing [00:09:25] that, taking your laptop, working remotely.
[00:09:27] Now you're almost expected to be on call [00:09:30] all the time, which is not healthy. Like, that's not the way you should be working. [00:09:35] Ideally, you should have your work hours within those, that timeframe. that's when you do your work, [00:09:40] whatever way you want to do it, but it's best to set aside specific hours for that.
[00:09:44] It's a little bit [00:09:45] different when you're an entrepreneur and running your own business, but for the nine to five general worker, I [00:09:50] think. You gotta set those boundaries.
[00:09:52] **Craig:** But those boundaries can be different too. Right. And that's [00:09:55] important
[00:09:55] **David:** yeah.
[00:09:55] **Craig:** too. You know, people are, we're all different. People are all [00:10:00] different. And we've kind of been, and I know this is getting off top of a little bit David, so I won't on [00:10:05] the point, but, like, shit, we've been lead into this environment where we have to [00:10:10] work nine till five
[00:10:11] Compartmentalize that. then we had [00:10:15] recently this big push through social media for this thing called Eat the fog. Have you heard of [00:10:20] that phrase before? Eat the frog.
[00:10:21] **David:** I have, but let's go ahead and explain it a little bit.
[00:10:24] **Craig:** So [00:10:25] Eat the frog essentially is referring to do the hardest task first. The [00:10:30] fear is that, if I, 'cause the frogs are ugly thing, right? It's an ugly thing. You don't wanna do it so you eat it, get outta the [00:10:35] way. So if I do the hardest thing I'm gonna set myself up for [00:10:40] success for the rest of the day. Now that's okay if you are that type of person. So we know that this [00:10:45] said, you know, we're all different. There's four different chronotypes. Morning, afternoon, you know, that [00:10:50] old night owl, early bird, that kind of thing. So if you are the kind of person that [00:10:55] cognitively you're at your peak in the afternoon, then try and eat the frog in the morning is pointless. You can't [00:11:00] do the deep task first thing in the morning. And a
[00:11:02] **David:** Yeah.
[00:11:03] **Craig:** is you've got a [00:11:05] meal. So you New Zealand here, like a, good New Zealand dish is [00:11:10] like meat and three veggie, right? Like you got your sausages and your mashed potato and [00:11:15] and whatnot and everybody hates brussel sprouts. So there's two ways you can attack, one is, [00:11:20] I'm going to eat my Brussels sprouts first because I just want 'em out of the way. I want to get it out of the way and then [00:11:25] enjoy the rest of my meal. The other way to approach that is I don't wanna eat the Brussels sprouts first because it's [00:11:30] gonna taint the rest of my meal. I'm going to eat all the stuff I love first and then do the [00:11:35] hard thing last. And that's personal preference, and it depends on my tastes and, and the [00:11:40] way I approach things. So, as I said, we've been locked into this nine to five thing, and it, it doesn't [00:11:45] really work for everybody. And as a leader, if we can [00:11:50] foster great trust, positive relationships, great [00:11:55] positive, and this is important, positive accountability strategies, then what's wrong with [00:12:00] saying, Hey David, look, you know what you gotta do, get it done.
[00:12:02] I don't care if you go to the Maldives [00:12:05] for a week and work from there. Gonna catch up regularly anyway, but you just go and do your work, get [00:12:10] it done. I trust you.
[00:12:10] **David:** yeah.
[00:12:11] **Craig:** So that's, but it takes a lot of, [00:12:15] development to get to that point, because otherwise you just end up out working all the time.
[00:12:19] Right?
[00:12:19] **David:** [00:12:20] Yeah. And I think, what I'm noticing is there's a couple of things because right [00:12:25] now, even with the rollout of AI in organizations, organizations, [00:12:30] many of them didn't really have a plan for it. They just said, here's this tool, [00:12:35] figure it out for yourself.
[00:12:36] **Craig:** Yeah.
[00:12:36] **David:** they didn't have a way to help their people to understand, okay, this [00:12:40] is a new tool.
[00:12:40] These are a couple of tips or ways that you can use it to help you in [00:12:45] your daily work. Most people were just said, here it is, figure it out. And so the [00:12:50] statistic is, I, was it like 20 some number in the billions that were spent on it, [00:12:55] and there's like 90% of that.
[00:12:57] There's no ROI and so they just, [00:13:00] globally, we just flushed a whole, ton of money down the toilet or just gave it to [00:13:05] rich people to get richer. E either way.
[00:13:06] **Craig:** Yeah.
[00:13:07] **David:** I think there's a similarity in that [00:13:10] approach where it's, okay, here's the thing, just figure it out yourself and do it. And [00:13:15] what you're talking about with, the way we did remote, work as well as how are we training [00:13:20] managers?
[00:13:20] 'cause in the conversations I've had with coaches, when I asked them about their first time [00:13:25] managers that they work with, these are great first time managers are fantastic people at [00:13:30] the work that they did the subject, they were subject matter experts. Right.
[00:13:34] **Craig:** Yeah.
[00:13:34] **David:** [00:13:35] But then they're suddenly, they're trusted and they're put into positions of [00:13:40] management generally with no backing.
[00:13:42] So there's no support, no training, and they're [00:13:45] expected to figure it out.
[00:13:46] **Craig:** So
[00:13:47] **David:** And so,
[00:13:47] **Craig:** those people up for success?
[00:13:49] **David:** [00:13:50] exactly.
[00:13:50] That's the role of the coach, right? Because then you bring in a coach to help them, but the organizations, they're [00:13:55] not thinking it through. Most of the time. I think, and this is my assumption, right, [00:14:00] is okay, we're really busy.
[00:14:01] we just gotta get somebody in there to start doing something, [00:14:05] which it's better to start doing something and get the ball rolling. That's [00:14:10] always, you know, just start to grow and improve. But you need to improve. So you need to come [00:14:15] back to it and think about, okay, we started this thing. Is it working?
[00:14:19] Most of the [00:14:20] time businesses, instead of going back and thinking through like, is this working? Doing like a [00:14:25] really a good review and then implementing next steps for improvement, in my [00:14:30] experience, we just kept piling on new stuff and we never went back and figured out how do we improve [00:14:35] actually, and how do we make sure we're improving?
[00:14:36] And so I love where you're going with this [00:14:40] in terms of working with people to figure out, like, how do I get better [00:14:45] at this? How do I become optimized and more proficient in these areas? [00:14:50] So, okay. I'd love to dive a little bit deeper into this, 'cause I think this also affects a [00:14:55] lot of coaches as well, which is,
[00:14:56] **Craig:** Hmm.
[00:14:57] **David:** And for coaches.
[00:14:58] 'cause what we're talking about now too [00:15:00] is the cognitive load of always kind of, almost always being on, especially if you're [00:15:05] working internationally, coaching on via Zoom. How do we help [00:15:10] coaches in this way of, being more, cognitive. How do you handle that [00:15:15] cognitive load to make sure that you are spending the,
[00:15:17] **Craig:** Yeah.
[00:15:18] **David:** hours doing the [00:15:20] important work? And for, coaches, the important work is working with clients, but it's also with building [00:15:25] a business.
[00:15:25] So how do you help people realize and figure out, like one is okay, when's the [00:15:30] best time for doing the hard part first? And you know, even with your [00:15:35] clients, how do you suggest like, organizing their time? How do you go through that and, and work through that [00:15:40] process?
[00:15:40] **Craig:** the, the first thing is, to really understand important, Like, [00:15:45] and you just mentioned it, and this is, I think, uh, I trap, well, I think 'cause I deal with this [00:15:50] quite a bit, but this is a track that I see a lot and it's similar to what you just [00:15:55] meant about people, you know, I'm a subject matter expert in my organization [00:16:00] and there's a vacancy at a leadership role.
[00:16:02] So I've been given it awesome. Okay, now I don't, now [00:16:05] there's all these other things that I have to know about and have to do that are not just subject matter, [00:16:10] information and, requirements, right? And a lot of the coaches, I see a lot that they're great [00:16:15] marketers. They're great, whatever it is they do, and they go, okay, I wanna code [00:16:20] people this stuff.
[00:16:20] 'cause I love what I do and I want other people to love it as much as I do. And that's a [00:16:25] great reason to get into coaching, right? The problem is that if you want to be a [00:16:30] good coach and you are gonna work for yourself, if you join a large organization, that's probably a little bit different [00:16:35] and there are all coaching organizations around, right? But if I want to be a solo pro [00:16:40] coach, you have to be a business person first. You have to create a business first [00:16:45] because if you don't have a business, you won't have anybody to coach. And part of having a [00:16:50] business is doing your accounts. You know, the financial side of it. And yes, you may [00:16:55] get an accountant, but if you're starting up you might not be able to afford an accountant.
[00:16:58] There's marketing, there's [00:17:00] advertising, there's filling your funnel, there's getting, you know, getting clients. There's all of these other [00:17:05] things that are ar arguably equally and as important as this, the actual [00:17:10] coaching because if I don't do any of those things, I won't have someone in front of me to coach [00:17:15] anyway. So
[00:17:16] **David:** Exactly.
[00:17:16] **Craig:** Once we understand that, that there's more to it than [00:17:20] just these conversations or these corporate training gigs, then we can start to [00:17:25] work out what those things are and what priorities they are within [00:17:30] my organization. So that's the first step, right? And then there's a lot of, like you, you [00:17:35] mentioned about, you know, when I work best and that takes just a lot of reflection.
[00:17:39] There are [00:17:40] some really cool tools on the internet that people can search and will give you an [00:17:45] idea of best time of day. And if you search prototyping, a [00:17:50] wonderful way to figure out when you are at your cognitive peak, remembering [00:17:55] that it's an average and there might be some crossover.
[00:17:58] And we do change as well. [00:18:00] So understanding what is required and then creating a [00:18:05] strategy for clearly prioritizing those things on a regular basis. So, and then [00:18:10] we wanna move those things into a structured planned week or fortnight [00:18:15] or month. So we're giving every little part of business that we've [00:18:20] created for ourselves, we are giving it the attention that it actually needs.
[00:18:23] **David:** Good.
[00:18:24] **Craig:** I can
[00:18:24] **David:** [00:18:25] Um,
[00:18:25] **Craig:** on that if you want, but we could be here for hours.
[00:18:27] **David:** well, for me personally, I'm also really interested [00:18:30] because, I mean, this is a common challenge that everyone faces because, most [00:18:35] coaches work from home or are solopreneurs. And so they have, you know, [00:18:40] they have to figure out how do I prioritize my time?
[00:18:42] When is the best time that I work, when do I want [00:18:45] to do that hard thing? You know, do I batch it? Do I not batch it?
[00:18:48] **Craig:** Batching iss. Good. [00:18:50] Batching is one of those, I think it came out of, you know, habits of a High, I dunno, you know, of [00:18:55] those books, um, which are Atomic Habits or something like that. Batching iss a
[00:18:58] **David:** Yeah.
[00:18:59] **Craig:** if it's used well, [00:19:00] and if it's, if it's understood. Well, it's like any strategy, right? Understanding how to prioritize is only [00:19:05] really the start, because I need to know what is the most important thing and we need to [00:19:10] understand that not everything is important. Right. And there's a really good strategy for [00:19:15] prioritization called the Eisenhower Matrix. Have you heard of that?
[00:19:17] **David:** Yes.
[00:19:18] **Craig:** So it's a [00:19:20] simple quadrant.
[00:19:20] Do you know where it came from?
[00:19:21] **David:** I thought it was from Eisenhower, but maybe that's just,
[00:19:24] **Craig:** No, [00:19:25] you're right. Uh, general
[00:19:26] **David:** yeah.
[00:19:26] **Craig:** he used it
[00:19:27] **David:** Yeah.
[00:19:28] **Craig:** as, a tool [00:19:30] for working out the logistics of the invasion of Normandy. And if we think about that a task, I [00:19:35] mean, that was monumental. So, created this, sym matrix, which is really, really [00:19:40] useful. That's a really good place to start.
[00:19:41] But an issue I see a lot of, and there's a couple of them, [00:19:45] is, I know my price, so I'm gonna do that today. This is due today, so I'm gonna start it [00:19:50] today. And that's a risky for disaster, right? Because as human beings, we are [00:19:55] notorious at overestimating what we can do in the short term. I'll get this smashed out [00:20:00] under Noah and two hours later I'm still working on it. And we are also notorious for [00:20:05] underestimating what we can do in the long term. So I go, Hey man, gonna have plenty of [00:20:10] time. I'm gonna start this task today, do it 5:00 PM today. And shit happens, right? Because [00:20:15] that's life. boss comes with something else, or I have this amazing client rings me and wants to [00:20:20] talk about how we can work together for, you know, and the conversation goes for an hour and all of a sudden [00:20:25] that time I thought I had gone and I'm becoming anxious [00:20:30] and stressed out because I haven't, this is due tonight.
[00:20:32] I'm not gonna get, so we should have had that [00:20:35] ready before today. I knew about it for a week or two weeks or whatever. So I should have planned and [00:20:40] structured my days and my weeks so that not started today, that [00:20:45] it was actually finished yesterday. So then I've got a day out my sleeve. And if stuff [00:20:50] happens, you know, I've got some wiggle room, I've got some fat in the system now
[00:20:54] **David:** Hmm.
[00:20:54] **Craig:** [00:20:55] requires us to use our calendar.
[00:20:56] Well, and again, using our calendar is they're [00:21:00] just so underutilized. The majority of people I speak to usually calendar [00:21:05] for two things, and meetings, and that's it. So what, what about all these [00:21:10] tasks that you've got to do? What about your priorities? Give yourself some specific time to [00:21:15] do those things. So you
[00:21:16] **David:** Yeah.
[00:21:17] **Craig:** okay, this is due on X, Y, Z. I'm [00:21:20] gonna segment some time for this. I know it's gonna be done. And then [00:21:25] flow and effect of that is that it has a significantly positive impact on our wellbeing [00:21:30] instead of me stressing and worrying about, oh my God, I've gotta get this done, I've forgot about it, [00:21:35] now it's due and not gonna have to. Ah, sweet. I've done it. So an hour and a half here, an hour and a half here, an hour and a half [00:21:40] here, and now it's due, it's finished, and it's not due till next Tuesday. God, I feel good. You know, [00:21:45] and that's all, you know, this is all obviously in very minor detail, but you know, that's, the basis [00:21:50] of it really.
[00:21:50] **David:** Yeah, I have to have you work with my son it's always the last minute, the [00:21:55] night, right before it's almost bedtime. And then it's like, yeah. [00:22:00] Anyways, I digress. I think for coaches too, that the challenge and for any entrepreneur, right, [00:22:05] is you set your own time and your own time scale, and then you also don't have somebody else [00:22:10] telling you what you need to do unless it's a client and you have to do something for your client.
[00:22:13] But, you know, for [00:22:15] coaching, that's not like you're delivering a big project. It's you, you know, you're having coaching sessions, delivering [00:22:20] notes or follow up and, and stuff like that.
[00:22:21] **Craig:** But that's why that whole, you know, prioritizing using your [00:22:25] calendar is so important because I've got no
[00:22:27] **David:** hmm.
[00:22:27] **Craig:** down my neck saying, get it done. I'm a solo [00:22:30] coach. I wanna create a new program to start in December, you know, a Christmas program, and I'm [00:22:35] in. That's not a huge [00:22:40] priority for me right now, but it's going to be over the next month because I'm gonna give myself enough to do it, so I'm gonna, [00:22:45] my calendar, I'm gonna give myself some segments to do that. [00:22:50] So I'm making myself accountable because I'm accountable to my calendar. Another [00:22:55] really, really good strategy that I really encourage is the use of accountability [00:23:00] partners for, for people like you and I, right?
[00:23:02] **David:** Yeah.
[00:23:03] **Craig:** you'll have heard of, Accountability [00:23:05] Partners before.
[00:23:05] Great tool. 'cause no one, like, you know, I say, Hey look David, I've got a, got this thing I've gotta do [00:23:10] one next Friday. If I don't do it, I'm gonna shut you lunch. Yeah. I wanna pay for your [00:23:15] lunch, man. I'm, I'm gonna get it done. what I mean? And, and it's so powerful 'cause
[00:23:18] It's come out into the [00:23:20] public eye and we
[00:23:21] **David:** Yeah,
[00:23:21] **Craig:** though, you know, first of 1st of January rolls around. What are my new [00:23:25] year resolutions?
[00:23:25] I'm gonna do this. I'm not gonna tell anybody though, because if I tell somebody they're gonna hold me to account, so
[00:23:29] **David:** [00:23:30] yeah,
[00:23:30] **Craig:** two weeks later we're back to where we were. But if I say to you a David, this year, I'm gonna go to the [00:23:35] gym twice a week, every
[00:23:37] **David:** yeah.
[00:23:37] **Craig:** don't go twice. Then beer, [00:23:40] Friday night, beers are on me,
[00:23:41] **David:** Yeah.
[00:23:41] **Craig:** you know? And it's fantastic strategy. Fantastic tool.
[00:23:44] **David:** [00:23:45] Yeah. And actually, so the podcast, I kept delaying the original launch date. ' [00:23:50] cause I was, I filmed most of my episodes during the summer, and then I, I was thinking of [00:23:55] trying to launch it during the summer, but then I just kept pushing. I couldn't do it. And so then I finally put a, [00:24:00] a line in the sand.
[00:24:01] I said, okay, October 1st. So October 1st is actually my birthday. I'm [00:24:05] just like, okay, this is my birthday. Present to myself. I don't care if it's great or perfect, I'm just gonna do it. [00:24:10] And so I, that was when we launched. So next year for my next birthday, I've decided I'm gonna write a [00:24:15] book and I'm gonna, I've got an idea in my mind, but then I've just like, okay, so I'm [00:24:20] gonna do a book next year.
[00:24:21] And I've kind of already got like the following book after that. [00:24:25] So now every birthday my present to myself is putting something new out into [00:24:30] the world.
[00:24:30] **Craig:** Magic. So when you say, so on your next birthday, 1st of [00:24:35] October, uh, next year, you're gonna start the book, is that the Intention
[00:24:38] **David:** I'm gonna, my intention is [00:24:40] to have a book, published in some form or manner, so it might just be an [00:24:45] ebook. Uh, ideally it would be at least like an Amazon, Amazon Kindle [00:24:50] book
[00:24:50] **Craig:** Yeah,
[00:24:50] **David:** that would, that's my minimum goal. Yeah.
[00:24:53] **Craig:** Let's have a chat about that. 'cause [00:24:55] that's, this is really cool. Like, and this is, what often happens with us. We have these goals and they're, they're [00:25:00] realistic goals and they're achievable goals, but the timeframe is quite [00:25:05] long. Right. And as
[00:25:06] **David:** Yeah,
[00:25:06] **Craig:** we always underestimate what we can do in the short, in the long term.
[00:25:09] Right. [00:25:10] So got plenty of time. It's fine. It's only, yeah, it's a month after my birthday. [00:25:15] I got 11 months to do it and
[00:25:16] **David:** exactly.
[00:25:17] **Craig:** I still worry about it. I still got 10 months to [00:25:20] go. I still got 10 months. It's easy. Oh, I've got nine months. Nine months is a long time.
[00:25:24] You know, [00:25:25] and we count down and we get to a month and go, shit, I better get writing that book. You know? so [00:25:30] how are you and, and in fact a product placement, I've actually got [00:25:35] a, workshop coming up called eating elephants. How do you approach [00:25:40] that? It's a year long,
[00:25:41] **David:** Yeah. Yeah.
[00:25:42] **Craig:** we need to approach that one bite at a [00:25:45] time.
[00:25:45] So this month, in the month of October, from first October, end of [00:25:50] October, I'm going to write 20 pages. I mean, I dunno what your goal is, right? [00:25:55] then in,
[00:25:55] In November, I'm gonna write 40 pages. And then in December, I'm only [00:26:00] gonna write 20 pages again because it's Christmas on, you know, whatever it might be.
[00:26:03] But breaking that big 12 [00:26:05] month da, 12 month long period down into these little achievable bites, [00:26:10] and all of a sudden it's not
[00:26:11] **David:** Yeah,
[00:26:11] **Craig:** significant a goal. Right?
[00:26:14] So
[00:26:14] **David:** yeah. [00:26:15] So actually, so all of October has just been figuring out and doing the podcast and [00:26:20] then,
[00:26:20] **Craig:** Yeah.
[00:26:20] **David:** Just giving myself this month to figure out the process. 'cause, [00:26:25] putting out a podcast is, it's a lot of work. You need to figure out what's the workflow [00:26:30] like, I had an idea of the process, I'm really, but I needed to actually live it out, [00:26:35] work it out, and then figure out, okay, this is actually how it works, this is how it's gonna work, moving [00:26:40] forward, and this is how I improve.
[00:26:41] So now that it's October 31st, I've kind of. [00:26:45] Figure that out. So starting in November, first month, first week of November is [00:26:50] okay. I need to sit down and try to sketch out what's my project plan. And [00:26:55] my outline for my project is really, I need to do a lot of interviews. Uh, so I'm, I'm [00:27:00] actually gonna be looking to do interviews for source material.
[00:27:03] And then, [00:27:05] I'm also thinking, okay, if I'm gonna write a book, is it gonna be like a 50 ba, 50 page kind of [00:27:10] guide and handbook, or is this like a hundred page something? I can't do more than a hundred pages. And [00:27:15] I, I'm really cognizant of that. So it's probably gonna be something like 10 chapters or [00:27:20] less and maximum a hundred pages of
[00:27:23] **Craig:** you a question, David, [00:27:25] when are you gonna do all this? So you said from 1st of November this is what I'm gonna do.
[00:27:29] **David:** [00:27:30] That's,
[00:27:30] **Craig:** doing it? Have you got,
[00:27:31] **David:** yeah.
[00:27:32] **Craig:** some time set aside for that or is it just [00:27:35] Ah, I'll do it today. Ah, I'll do it tomorrow.
[00:27:37] **David:** Yeah, right now it's more like, eh, I'll do it [00:27:40] tomorrow, but the time that I set up, so that's why I have to sit down. Next week will be sit down and [00:27:45] start to map out the plan. And I can probably only really realistically carve [00:27:50] out probably about four hours out of my week, just because I'm doing my work and then doing the [00:27:55] podcast.
[00:27:55] And then I'll probably end up doing batches of interviews, with people [00:28:00] and then start, and then take that information and then start to craft. Okay. [00:28:05] So the goal would be, as much as possible, try to batch that within the next two months of November, [00:28:10] December, maybe a little bit into January, but by probably Christmas.
[00:28:14] New [00:28:15] Year's. Over that time when there's a little bit of downtime, and breathing room, it'll be starting to map [00:28:20] out, okay, what does this actually look like? What does the book look like? And then [00:28:25] it'll be probably January, February, March, working on the book, writing, [00:28:30] editing, and then figuring out, so all of the creative and actually publishing the book is actually [00:28:35] the, the easier part.
[00:28:36] It's writing the book, editing, and [00:28:40] that part's the a little bit harder. And then it's, the bigger part is the, the launch [00:28:45] plan. Because the launch plan for the book is one. I wanna do the book 'cause I think it's, [00:28:50] something that's needed, but two, most books when they're published. So the [00:28:55] goal of the book is, one, provide value, but two, especially for co people who are in coaching or [00:29:00] entrepreneurs, it's to create visibility for yourself.
[00:29:02] Because not everybody creates a book. So it's, it [00:29:05] becomes a badge, it becomes a, you know, credibility builder, right?
[00:29:09] And then [00:29:10] three. So the third thing is that it is, people will buy the book. How [00:29:15] do you get those people into your database? How do you know? Learn more about those people
[00:29:19] **Craig:** Mm-hmm.
[00:29:19] **David:** they, [00:29:20] they may not become customers, but they are interested.
[00:29:24] And [00:29:25] eventually, if you stay top of mind with them long enough, they would be interested [00:29:30] or suggest you as a, as someone who can provide a service for whatever it is that you do. [00:29:35] So those are the, the three things, right? Deliver value to the world. Add to your credibility and [00:29:40] authority and then potentially find new, grow your audience, and create more [00:29:45] visibility for yourself.
[00:29:45] **Craig:** Well, I love, and it kind of ties into the conversation we were having before we hit record, [00:29:50] but love the fact that your first thing is to create value for the [00:29:55] world. It's not about. Increasing your database. That's not second or third. It's not [00:30:00] about making money because it's probably not gonna be a real money generator. You know, but your number one [00:30:05] thing is creating value, right? And that, I think that's a, a wonderful [00:30:10] goal to have as your, as your first goal. And it kind of comes back to that conversation we [00:30:15] having around how we represent ourselves in LinkedIn or on social media [00:30:20] these days. Right? And it's, it's about providing value as a human being.
[00:30:23] And, and you, a [00:30:25] far better place to talk about that than I am. 'cause I'm only really repeating what you said earlier. But that's kind of [00:30:30] what, and correct me if I'm wrong, it's kind of what you were getting at, right? Is, who are you, what value do [00:30:35] you bring, and how does your business tie into that value?
[00:30:38] Or how do you bring that value of your [00:30:40] business along with who you are?
[00:30:41]
[00:31:07] **David:** Yeah. I mean, and that's [00:31:10] so. The cognitive dissonance or not the cognitive dissonance. The difficulty I have with the book is [00:31:15] that it doesn't necessarily, ideally the book would be on a subject [00:31:20] that my business is around. And so then it clearly connects to the services. That is [00:31:25] generally the way you want to go.
[00:31:26] The book is actually not about it's actually around more around [00:31:30] like just talking with coaches about leadership and especially, I mentioned earlier, [00:31:35] right, first time leaders,
[00:31:36] Because there's, I think it just, there, needs to be an update [00:31:40] on what it is to be a first time leader in a post COVID world [00:31:45] where AI is part of everything and you have this next generation of, [00:31:50] people becoming adults who perceive and interact with the world in a totally [00:31:55] different way. So how do you become a leader in this, age? Right.
[00:31:59] **Craig:** I was gonna say [00:32:00] that with that whole leadership, you know, these young people coming up as leaders, and I mean, I guess it's the case [00:32:05] for everybody is not, you know, we all think that we're the only ones. And [00:32:10] whatever. I'm the only one having a bad day. I'm the only one
[00:32:12] **David:** Yeah.
[00:32:13] **Craig:** feels that self-doubt.
[00:32:14] [00:32:15] I'm the only one that feels like an imposter. I'm the only one that, is really struggling with [00:32:20] this transition from, being the, you know, a doer to now a leader. know, I'm the only [00:32:25] one struggling with that. So do you think there's an element and would that come through in your book that you [00:32:30] are not the only one?
[00:32:30] You're not unique. This is one of those times where you don't wanna be unique, you know, you're just the
[00:32:34] **David:** [00:32:35] Yeah.
[00:32:35] **Craig:** else. We all have those challenges.
[00:32:36] **David:** So that's, that'll be definitely part of it because [00:32:40] we have this very arrogant mindset of it doesn't happen to anybody [00:32:45] else. It's only happening to me.
[00:32:46] I'm so special. Right?
[00:32:48] **Craig:** yeah.
[00:32:49] **David:** But the truth is [00:32:50] that. It's not you're, you're not. And, for first time [00:32:55] leaders, the challenges that you're going through aren't really that special.
[00:32:59] But the real question [00:33:00] is for first time leaders, again, I think it, it comes back to this whole thing about a purpose. Like [00:33:05] what are you doing with your time? What are you doing with ai? What are you doing? What is your goal with that? [00:33:10] And so the rat race, the race of I to be [00:33:15] successful, this is what success means.
[00:33:17] You need to start at the bottom and work your way up through [00:33:20] the organization. Become a middle manager, senior vp, CEO some, and [00:33:25] that's the story some people have. But is that the what life you really want? Is that, do [00:33:30] you want to be a manager of and a leader of people or do you just wanna be this subject [00:33:35] matter expert that's just building in the developing amazing.
[00:33:38] Products. Right? [00:33:40] Some people don't, they don't want to be people managers. They want to build, build [00:33:45] products, and that's fantastic. But you need to know that and just say
[00:33:49] **Craig:** [00:33:50] absolutely.
[00:33:50] **David:** but that's
[00:33:51] **Craig:** no
[00:33:51] **David:** okay.
[00:33:51] **Craig:** Yeah.
[00:33:52] **David:** Yeah.
[00:33:52] And if you wanna be the manager, right? [00:33:55] The, how do you become a manager?
[00:33:57] How do you become a first rate [00:34:00] manager? And so, you know, that's, that's where it comes in, the communication, collaboration, [00:34:05] understanding goals and purposes. I mean, and that, at least for me, like having these conversations with coaches, [00:34:10] we. I can do a lot more research and bring in like what are the ways and topics and specific, [00:34:15] ways to approach and move forward in that.
[00:34:17] But yes, we've really [00:34:20] got off the rails.
[00:34:21] **Craig:** Yeah.
[00:34:21] **David:** fine.
[00:34:22] **Craig:** Yeah.
[00:34:23] **David:** No, no, no, no, that's completely [00:34:25] fine. It's really fun to talk about this kind of stuff. And for me too. When we talk [00:34:30] about for coaches, we talk about leader so this whole podcast, I'm really [00:34:35] focused on executive and leadership coaches, right?
[00:34:37] Because I wanna be really [00:34:40] focused with who I'm impacting and who I'm helping. This can definitely help other people, but, if I [00:34:45] have to focus on one group, this is the group I wanna focus on. It's the group I was working with before, and [00:34:50] so I'm well acquainted with
[00:34:51] **Craig:** the most change, right? Like if you are
[00:34:53] **David:** Exactly.
[00:34:54] **Craig:** with [00:34:55] these middle manager leaders, there's a high percentage chance that they're gonna continue to [00:35:00] go up the corporate ladder. So if you are able to work with them now as they grow, they can [00:35:05] grow up their profession and their, their corporate, ladder. They can then filter down what [00:35:10] you are teaching them to people below them. So the, the most [00:35:15] change, you know, it's like, for me, I can't, well, I do deal with a whole lot of different people. If I can [00:35:20] talk with a, leader of an organization, these are the skills that your people need to have. Brilliant. Let's [00:35:25] give them all the skills.
[00:35:26] But if I'm talking with the person at the lowest end of that spectrum, [00:35:30] then I can impact that one person, but all those people around them. So I think it's, working with leaders, [00:35:35] with middle management leaders or upper management leaders gives us the best opportunity to facilitate change, [00:35:40] right?
[00:35:40] **David:** Yeah. And so that's again, like purpose. Who is it that you wanna work with? [00:35:45] What is the work that you want to do with the one life that you have to create a legacy impact on the [00:35:50] world? And so through the podcast working with executive coaches and leadership coaches, there's a [00:35:55] cascading effect.
[00:35:55] Happens, there's a change that happens within not just their work [00:36:00] life, but also in their family life and in their friendship circles, right? And [00:36:05] so, anyways, so there's a lot of impact and potential in this [00:36:10] space. Trying to get us back on track here, you know, as you're building your coaching [00:36:15] business and you're running it, what is something that's been surprising [00:36:20] about working in coaching versus your previous work?
[00:36:23] **Craig:** Everything. Really. [00:36:25] Yeah. That's a really bullshit answer. Right. But, couldn't be more different [00:36:30] because the business I had, we employ a lot of people. it was a large business. We turned over [00:36:35] several million dollars a year. Head office, you know, we had people do our marketing, we had people [00:36:40] do our accounting, all that kind of stuff.
[00:36:41] So I kind of, I focused on the people that we had [00:36:45] regional managers, so my focus was on those people directly below me that they dealt, sort of filtered out from [00:36:50] there. Whereas doing what I do now, it's just me. I do all of that [00:36:55] stuff now and some of it I'm quite good at. of it I'm really appalling [00:37:00] at, and I feel lost in it. And you know, we've had these conversations about, particularly [00:37:05] about sort of, you know, marketing and that kind of thing, and the funnel and filling the funnel [00:37:10] and top of funnel bottom, you know, all that kind of stuff. You know, that's, I find that challenging. I guess the [00:37:15] biggest thing that I found challenging was me being the product. So obviously [00:37:20] previously we sold a service and I had nothing, you know, I created it, da, but I had [00:37:25] nothing to do with, the actual service where people delivering the service, dah, dah. Whereas so, and [00:37:30] when we advertise the marketed, we marketed the brand and we advertise the brand. Whereas [00:37:35] now because I am the service that people are paying for, I market and [00:37:40] I promote myself. And that was really challenging to start with, their mindset and being [00:37:45] comfortable talking about myself. that, that's probably the biggest challenge or [00:37:50] biggest difference, biggest.
[00:37:51] **David:** That, that's interesting. So again, talking about purpose. [00:37:55] So I think it's definitely, it's always easier, for certain people. I think it, they're [00:38:00] very excited to talk about themselves. I think for the majority of people, they're more comfortable talking about [00:38:05] something or somebody else.
[00:38:06] But your perspective, so I'd like to push back a little bit [00:38:10] on you being the product, you being the service, because I think the, the [00:38:15] product and service for coaching is the outcome of what you're getting out, and I bring [00:38:20] that up because, depending on the coaching business that you're looking to develop.
[00:38:23] There's several different [00:38:25] models. You can be the solo and you can just do that. You could also build a [00:38:30] consultancy or like a team of coaches that you train in your systems and [00:38:35] methods and that way the system and the, goal and outcome really [00:38:40] becomes this product and service of your coaching.
[00:38:42] And so now it's not super dependent on you. You can train [00:38:45] other people in that and then they can also help to deliver that. That is, I [00:38:50] find that some many coaches have a harder time with that because they wanna make sure that the [00:38:55] people who are being coached by them or their organization get the same level of [00:39:00] service.
[00:39:00] Right. And it's really hard to guarantee that. But again, as we talk about [00:39:05] value and creating kind of legacy, if you can train people to that level where they can [00:39:10] be almost, or just as good as you. Doesn't that create greater impact? Right. And [00:39:15] we were just mentioning, you know, we all think we're super special.
[00:39:18] And [00:39:20] maybe we, you are, or maybe we all, I mean we all are special, but you know, [00:39:25] maybe there are other people that you could eventually find who can do that coaching just as well as you [00:39:30] who are aligned with your goals and values that can also help you to grow that. [00:39:35] Right. Um,
[00:39:36] **Craig:** important what you just said there too. I have right now no intentions of [00:39:40] grown as a consultant to have other people deliver my training
[00:39:42] **David:** yeah.
[00:39:43] **Craig:** but if I was [00:39:45] to, for me, it's important to find someone. That has the same goals and values as me. [00:39:50] They're not the same person as me. The person, if they've got the same goals and values as me, they may [00:39:55] deliver the content in a different manner, the same outcome.
[00:39:58] And that's [00:40:00] okay. You know, and that's where that trust factor comes back, right? Like, David, this is why we are [00:40:05] here. This is what we're trying to achieve. This is a template of what I do. You go ahead and [00:40:10] you butcher that as much as you like. As long as you are getting the same outcome that [00:40:15] organization is looking to achieve, how do you get that outcome? I bought you on? Because I trust [00:40:20] you to deliver. And I think that's something that's lacking, then we get into that micromanaging right [00:40:25] now. You've
[00:40:25] **David:** Mm-hmm.
[00:40:25] **Craig:** words, David. Yeah. Come on. You know.
[00:40:28] **David:** Let's, [00:40:30] I'd love to go into this a little bit more, right, because you are running your business as a solo. In your, like next five [00:40:35] years
[00:40:35] As you're coaching, is that your goal? Is that where you're looking to do, is you just wanna kind of [00:40:40] build a solo practice or do you think you wanna do something a little bit [00:40:45] different?
[00:40:45] **Craig:** You're not the first person to ask, me that, to be fair. And the [00:40:50] reality is I don't have an answer for that question. Because like if you, if I was to [00:40:55] say right here, right now, no, I'm never, I'm not hiring anybody again. I'm not gonna go down that road. I, [00:41:00] you know, I've done it once. We had like 140 people working for us.
[00:41:04] You know, I, I'm [00:41:05] done. Employing and hiring people. I don't wanna deal with any of that nonsense anymore, but five [00:41:10] years later I might, you know, five years down the track, you know. So right now, no. I just want to build up [00:41:15] my coaching business. I love what I do. I love the interaction I have. If, [00:41:20] you know, if I can fill my calendar with amazing clients and [00:41:25] make a enough income, I'm happy with that. But as you [00:41:30] all know too, most entrepreneurs are, they're always chasing something, right? You [00:41:35] have to, you've always gotta be chasing something, always gotta be looking to be a little bit better. Otherwise you [00:41:40] become stagnant, and that's the first indication of starting to fall off the other end.
[00:41:43] **David:** Yeah.
[00:41:44] **Craig:** it might be [00:41:45] that, you know, I. Get to a point where I go, okay, maybe just one person, you know?
[00:41:49] **David:** [00:41:50] Yeah.
[00:41:50] **Craig:** I'd get one person to come in and sort of do some coaching. I really don't know right [00:41:55] now, but as I said here,
[00:41:56] **David:** Yeah.
[00:41:57] **Craig:** here, right now, I don't want to [00:42:00] be anything more than just me as a solo pro.
[00:42:01] It.
[00:42:02] **David:** Yeah. And that's fine, right? That's as long [00:42:05] as you, you know, and you recognize that about yourself and your situation in, that's [00:42:10] perfectly fine. And you know, yeah. As you said in a couple of years, you might change the decide to change, [00:42:15] and that's also fine. No one's writing this in stone and saying, this is you forever.
[00:42:19] [00:42:20] So, it, it's surprising when I ask the question, because sometimes [00:42:25] coaches, all they think about is, I just want to coach, and they don't think about what is the kind of life that [00:42:30] they're living or what is the kind of life and business that they want to build? And I guess [00:42:35] this comes to the, the mindset of are you just a coach or are you building a [00:42:40] coaching business?
[00:42:41] Are you accepting the fact that you're becoming an entrepreneur by [00:42:45] rocking into this role? Because if you, don't want to be walking into that role, you [00:42:50] might want to reconsider or how you're coaching, right? You.
[00:42:53] **Craig:** And that comes back to what I was saying [00:42:55] earlier? You know, the very first thing you have to understand if you are going out as a solo pro [00:43:00] or you're starting your journey on as coaching business, you have to understand that [00:43:05] you are a business person first. You are an entrepreneur first. ' cause if you [00:43:10] go into it thinking, I know some shit. I'm just gonna coach it. I'm just gonna tell people about what I [00:43:15] know. You will. Just through our, natural selection of, [00:43:20] things through our brain, we will just put all those other bits and pieces that are necessary. [00:43:25] As a business owner, we'll put them to the side and they won't have as much value or, level of [00:43:30] importance as the coaching does as a city.
[00:43:32] We don't do our accounts, we don't do our marketing, we don't do [00:43:35] our office admin, we don't do all these other things. We have no one to coach anyway. [00:43:40] You are right. You can't just kind of go into it and think, I'm just a coach. I just wanna be a [00:43:45] coach. Unless I go and work for somebody else as a coach, then I can be just a coach.
[00:43:49] 'cause that's all I [00:43:50] want to do. But if you want to be a solo pro, if you want to be an entrepreneur, you have to be a [00:43:55] business person first coach second.
[00:43:57] **David:** As you're building your business now, [00:44:00] and as we're talking about being a business person first. What are some of the challenges that you are [00:44:05] facing and that you're trying to figure out at the moment?
[00:44:07] **Craig:** For me, I, as I said again, I guess I'm, [00:44:10] fortunate that I've come from a business background, so I understand the value of all these other things. That doesn't [00:44:15] mean I'm
[00:44:15] **David:** Right.
[00:44:15] **Craig:** So it's that, that marketing and sales side is a real [00:44:20] challenge. For me. I love to chat. I love people.
[00:44:22] I love talking. You might have already figured that [00:44:25] one out. But I, often fail to turn those conversations into something more. [00:44:30] So that's something that I really struggle with, as I'm building what I do. And of course, if you don't [00:44:35] close those deals and get those clients, you have no business.
[00:44:37] So that's probably, an area I struggle [00:44:40] with, um, which I'm, I'm learning or trying to learn as much as possible about, as I build the
[00:44:44] **David:** Yeah.
[00:44:44] **Craig:** [00:44:45] probably the biggest for me.
[00:44:46] **David:** And I think that's, pretty normal for one, for [00:44:50] any business, but also for coaches too, because, you know, there, one, there's the technology [00:44:55] aspect of, doing the marketing, but it's where do I start with marketing? Do I do [00:45:00] social media? Do I create videos? Do I do email? Do I this, this, or this? You know, where do I start?
[00:45:05] **Craig:** I listen to? Who do I believe? Because you jump on LinkedIn and there's all this, [00:45:10] you know, videos are the way to go. And then, you put photos, so who do I believe? [00:45:15] that's a real challenge too.
[00:45:16] **David:** Yeah. And if you're, if you put yourself out there as a business person [00:45:20] starting a business, you're gonna get like five to 20 InMails from marketers. And [00:45:25] again, who do you believe? Who do you trust? It's not easy, right?
[00:45:28] **Craig:** For me though, [00:45:30] you're, right that that's not easy for me. I'm like, trust is [00:45:35] important. Right. And I have not once. [00:45:40] with someone who's come through my dms and said, hey, my name's Belinda. [00:45:45] I am a LinkedIn coach. I wanna help you. Not once engaged with those kind of [00:45:50] people, but you know, so the people I, I trust are the people that I've formed relations with.
[00:45:54] Like yourself. [00:45:55] Well, you just kicked it on LinkedIn. We took a, we had a bit of a call. It was about this [00:46:00] actually, and that just developed. So for me it's about finding people that I [00:46:05] trust. And again, for me, those people haven't been the ones that DM me and throw me [00:46:10] their
[00:46:10] **David:** Yeah.
[00:46:10] **Craig:** on LinkedIn. It's people that I have naturally. And there's other people too. And I'm very [00:46:15] lucky to be in that position. But yeah, it, it is about building that relationship and trust and, I would certainly, [00:46:20] and I, I have, listen, you know, you sent me that recording of our last conversation, which was [00:46:25] amazing, you know, so. Though. Yeah, it's people like yourself that I built relationships with, that I [00:46:30] trust, and I would listen to your advice rather than anybody else that comes through my [00:46:35] social, you know?
[00:46:35] **David:** So one, one thing that's coming to mind is as you, as we're talking about like marketing [00:46:40] too, and I think the hard part is when we connect marketing, often we [00:46:45] think about it in a very specific manner where it's like, here's the pitch, here's the [00:46:50] service, here's get into it. And I think.
[00:46:53] Especially for me. 'cause I don't [00:46:55] actually come from a marketing background. I come from a operational background where I was [00:47:00] building stuff. I was, I actually started from video production right.
[00:47:03] **Craig:** Okay.
[00:47:04] **David:** that world. [00:47:05] And then I got into building websites and then all this other stuff, and then building products but [00:47:10] as I, talk more with coaches and I talk about, and we, and I learn more about the [00:47:15] marketing, like really hardcore marketing.
[00:47:17] I think where it makes it easier [00:47:20] because you need to make, if the hurdle for marketing is so high, you don't want to do it's a very [00:47:25] big ugly frog. Right. You just don't, it's so big and ugly. Like most coaches don't [00:47:30] want to even get near it, right? Because they just have this.
[00:47:33] Affront to it because they're, [00:47:35] again, we were talking earlier where you just get so much marketing and so much of the stuff thrown [00:47:40] at you all the time that you don't want to be associated with it. But I think with [00:47:45] coaches, right? Is we were talking about visibility. For you as a coach to get new [00:47:50] clients to come to you, they need to know that you exist.
[00:47:53] are there and what it is that [00:47:55] you do, right? Because you can have, like, I have a mouse. Okay? It, [00:48:00] you, you know what the function is and you, you'll see ads or you'll see it on, in a TV [00:48:05] show. You'll see people using it so you understand the function of it and that it's there and that this is better than that [00:48:10] one.
[00:48:10] How do you as a coach create visibility for yourself? You don't need to.
[00:48:14] [00:48:15] Go out there and just be like, Hey, you need to buy this thing. You don't need to [00:48:20] necessarily just say, just market per se, but you can go out there and you can create [00:48:25] visibility by, you know, going out and having a coffee with somebody. You can connect with [00:48:30] your network and you have coffee one-to-one, and you just connect with them.
[00:48:33] That's creating visibility. [00:48:35] You can do speaking engagements, you can do a host of other things. [00:48:40] And I think it's,
[00:48:41] when I think about it, what makes it easier is instead of [00:48:45] thinking of it traditionally, like it's creating visibility and just
[00:48:48] **Craig:** Mm.
[00:48:48] **David:** connecting with real [00:48:50] people. That makes that ugly, big, ugly [00:48:55] frog a little bit smaller and easier to manage and eat.
[00:48:57] **Craig:** I love, that just [00:49:00] what you said there, you, it reframe that Eric, because for me, and this is only [00:49:05] my experience, scary. Because, and I say that because [00:49:10] what if I use the wrong words? What if I haven't quite [00:49:15] communicated exactly what I do in a way? Because I only know what I know. What you are thinking.
[00:49:19] [00:49:20] So what if I haven't communicated what I do in a way that you understand, or that is succinct and [00:49:25] clear, or that is easily decipherable or whatever, And then this, [00:49:30] I said before, you get all these experts saying all sorts of different things. Whereas if you think about [00:49:35] it, and I, I had never heard this before and I'm, I'm just stoked that you brought it up. If you think [00:49:40] about it as just cracking visibility, that's good. That's not scary. I, people just [00:49:45] wanna see who I am and what I do and I'll communicate that and that's what I can do. [00:49:50] Right. Know, even as I'm
[00:49:51] **David:** Yeah.
[00:49:51] **Craig:** here now, that's kind of reframing already in my little. Brain [00:49:55] here.
[00:49:55] How I think about how I market myself and what I do.
[00:49:58] **David:** Yeah, [00:50:00] reframe the idea, and make that big ugly ass frog. A little prettier, [00:50:05] a little smaller
[00:50:05] **Craig:** Well, they
[00:50:06] **David:** and
[00:50:07] **Craig:** it into a princess. Isn't that what
[00:50:08] **David:** Yeah.
[00:50:09] **Craig:** the frog[00:50:10]
[00:50:11] **David:** Yeah,
[00:50:11] **Craig:** or
[00:50:12] **David:** think, I think the princess. Yeah. Yeah. That's the story. The [00:50:15] princess kisses the ugly frog to turn into a prince. But anyways, but yeah, it's this [00:50:20] cognitive idea of just like, you know, we get so ingrained in what this looks like, and [00:50:25] we just need to look at it from a different perspective and a different angle, and then it becomes easier.
[00:50:29] And then you [00:50:30] just keep doing it and doing it, and you build up that muscle and then it gets, you know, eventually [00:50:35] gets easier.
[00:50:35] **Craig:** Hopefully.
[00:50:36] **David:** I mean, I found, I find it for myself. I started doing once a week [00:50:40] videos on LinkedIn. Not that they get a lot of traction, but I'm working on that muscle, getting more [00:50:45] comfortable with it.
[00:50:45] And the, I think the people that watch, they find value in it. At least that's what they say on [00:50:50] LinkedIn, on the comments.
[00:50:51] **Craig:** wouldn't say it otherwise, right? So, they just
[00:50:53] **David:** Yeah.
[00:50:53] **Craig:** If they're [00:50:55] going the effort of putting something down, I was gonna say on paper in the computer, know, [00:51:00] then generally that that's what they actually think and feel. Otherwise, they wouldn't go to that effort, so,
[00:51:04] **David:** [00:51:05] Yeah, that's definitely true.
[00:51:06] Okay. We're coming up to the end of our time here. [00:51:10] So I'd like to just wrap up with a few last few questions. So one is [00:51:15] for yourself. What have you learned about yourself through this [00:51:20] process of becoming a coach?
[00:51:21] **Craig:** Um, well that's, what have I learned about myself over [00:51:25] this period of coaching is that. Well, I guess the, I don't know if this is really what the answer you [00:51:30] want, but biggest thing I've learned is that I just, I love [00:51:35] what I do and for the first time, I mean, I enjoyed my business. You know, I created it, my [00:51:40] wife and I created it from nothing. I, I enjoyed that and it was my baby, but I haven't, been as [00:51:45] happy, fulfilled, satisfied for in terms of my professional life long as [00:51:50] I can remember.
[00:51:50] So I have learned that almost what I do [00:51:55] now is what I was maybe meant to do. I know that sounds all philosophical and all the rest of it, but, [00:52:00] that's the, the bottom line for me. I just, I really enjoy, I enjoy these conversations. [00:52:05] I enjoy meeting new people. I enjoy being able to facilitate change for the better and the people [00:52:10] that I meet. So that's something I've learned. If we want to get a more of a. I guess a [00:52:15] concrete answer. I've learned that you can't manage time. Time is time. [00:52:20] 60 minutes is an hour. There's no 61 minutes, but we can manage what we do with our time, [00:52:25] that has a huge effect on our wellbeing. If we can manage what we do with the [00:52:30] time and how we spend that time, that has a, has positive [00:52:35] implications. I've also learned that there is no such thing, and this is gonna be potentially controversial. [00:52:40] There's no such thing as work life balance in terms of we don't have a [00:52:45] switch that we flick and, okay, five o'clock, I'm off, I'm not gonna think about work [00:52:50] anymore. That, that just does not happen. But I've also learned that [00:52:55] there are very, very, very clear strategies and skills that [00:53:00] we can learn and implement that allow us to [00:53:05] compartmentalize those different things. And whether going back to our early conversation, whether that we do nine to five 'cause [00:53:10] it works for my lifestyle or whether that means, you know, I do flexible work, flexible [00:53:15] hours, but I still get the job done 'cause that works with my lifestyle.
[00:53:17] I've got young children or, whatever. So [00:53:20] those are probably the two biggest things in terms of, this coaching journey that I've been on that we can't manage. [00:53:25] Time, is time. And there is no such thing as work life balance. There is [00:53:30] just creating the right time for the right things.
[00:53:33] **David:** And one last [00:53:35] question before we close. What's one piece of advice that you'd give somebody who's just [00:53:40] beginning their coaching journey? Like, just considering I wanna become a coach, I.
[00:53:44] **Craig:** I guess [00:53:45] it comes back to the, the question we were talking about before, you, are you wanting to become a solo pro and do it [00:53:50] yourself, or are you wanting to become a coach because you love what you do and you wanna provide that information, but you're gonna [00:53:55] work for a large organization. If the question is about someone's gonna become a solo pro and they're [00:54:00] creating their own business, again, I come back to that. You have to consider [00:54:05] yourself a business person first, a coach first. You've got to be a [00:54:10] business person first. You've gotta understand you know, if I come outta marketing. ' cause I'm an [00:54:15] excellent marketer and I want to contribute and I want others to see and hear the value that [00:54:20] I have around marketing. If I don't do those other things that are as important as the actual [00:54:25] coaching, then I won't have those clients to coach in the first place. So that would be my biggest [00:54:30] advice as to, to understand that you're a business person first.
[00:54:33] **David:** Thank you, Craig. [00:54:35] Thank you so much. I've really had a lot of fun on this conversation.
[00:54:38] **Craig:** Yeah,
[00:54:38] **David:** We went down some [00:54:40] interesting rabbit holes and
[00:54:41] **Craig:** Sorry about that.
[00:54:43] **David:** No, no worries. [00:54:45] It's been a lot of fun and I really appreciate it. So thank you and we'll see you next time.
[00:54:49]