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A podcast to disrupt common narratives and constructs to empower diverse communities. We provide inspirational content from entrepreneurs and leaders who are disrupting the status quo.
welcome to MidwestCon 2023.
I'm Rob Richardson, the CEO of
Disrupt Art and also, of course,
the host of Disruption Now podcast.
Honored to be here with you.
Thank you for joining us.
We are here at the Digital Futures
Building at the University
of Cincinnati
taping live for MidwestCon 2023.
And with me is Kalista Zackhariyas,
who is the CEO of SparkSeeker.
And really the goal, the SparkSeeker
and I'm going to summarize it to the best
I can.
The goal is to really make sure you have
that we can have intentional engagement
using technology, and it's through an app
that she does that, but she also cares
very deeply about the future of technology
and how we're intentional about
using that for humanity
and for good and for transparency.
And that's why it's an honor
to have Kalista on the show.
Kalista, welcome.
How are you?. You had me. You're hired..
Yes. Hi.
Hello.
That's good.
You know, we tried. We tried.
So you for having me know.
Appreciate having you on.
It's when we met,
there was instant connection.
I think we were very similar
in our pursuits of
why we're in technology,
why we're doing this.
But, you know,
the audience needs to learn it, too.
So tell me if you can,
tell me what motivates
Kalista day in and day out to get up.
It's not just about entrepreneurship,
but generally.
I think I told you a little bit
about my background in history,
which I don't know
how much of it can go into here,
but I'm just going to go with it.
I think,
you know I grew up homeless on
and off the streets, and I think there was
a part of me that always wanted to do good
when I could,
and I never knew
what that opportunity was going to be.
And I was
looking to really have a shift in my life.
I wanted to get out of that rat race,
that hamster wheel,
and create something
where I could be more intentional
with my time and resources
and find a way to give back.
And I kind of stumbled upon this issue
because I had actually gone to these
social platforms looking for connection,
looking for community,
looking for ways
that I can join existing organizations
and start lending my time
and my energy to give back. Right?
And I saw the disinformation
and the hate speech
and the systemic divide
and the disinformation,
the behavior, manipulation
and all that stuff.
And it just kind of
took it on its own life.
And what started out as a frustration
eventually became something
where it was like, Hey, my my whole
passion is about uniting people
and bringing the power of people together
to do social good.
And how about we did that
while solving a problem, right?
And so we were able to marry the two.
So before I die, we're going to talk a lot
about Spark Seeker in your vision
with technology,
but want to know about what motivates you.
Because I think the most important
ingredient in any
organization and startup is is the founder
at least initially.
And it's tied to their story,
their experience and
their why.
So I would what is your why?
Freedom. Freedom.
What does that mean
to you?
To me,
freedom means that as human beings,
we get to maintain a sense of autonomy
over the way
we think, over what we get to do.
And I mean, obviously
within legal parameters, but,
you know, you want to have that.
I think, you know, our ancestors have
these are hard won freedoms we have
and I think technology
has the ability
to really enhance our lives.
I don't believe that technology
technology's good or bad,
believe it to be very neutral.
Interesting.
But I think its current trajectory
can do more harm than good.
And so I think
that we are a pivotal moment.
And I think
we need to have more
and more of these conversations.
We need to really
look at what we're building,
where we're going
and why we're going there.
And if it is going to
make us lose that sense of autonomy.
I think it's an injustice
to all those who came
before us of God who have helped us
get to this place of hard work freedoms.
Absolutely.
So much to dive into there.
I'm going to back up a little bit.
Why are you so motivated by this?
I want to know, you know, the
what makes you freedom is important,
but it comes from a personal reason
or your experience
because freedom is relative
to the person, experience and time.
And so that must it must be something.
You talked
a little bit about you being homeless.
If you could just speak to
personally why this mission
became your passion to help other people.
Great question.
Thanks for asking.
I think very early on in life
I understood the pain of disconnection.
I understood the pain of abandonment, and
I understood how hard it was
to navigate this world.
And then as I grew
older, I realized how fortunate
I had been interesting
and that I was one of
the luckier ones
and that I was not an anomaly,
that I was an everyday story.
And it was it became very personal to me.
And I remember being a little girl
and thinking like, How does one just walk
by a child who's shivering in the cold?
How desensitized have we become?
How does one not worry
that somebody else hasn't had food?
I mean
one might say I'm naive or that I have a
my mind lives in a utopian world.
Right.
But it's just it's the basics
of our human existence.
And I couldn't understand that.
And and as I realized
that I was not this anomaly
and it was a million
more like me, billions more like me,
you know, I just want to do my part.
I was like,
you know what? I've I've been very lucky.
And I mean, the same circumstances.
Had they been imposed on my life
and I had been
in a third world country or in a country
where women don't have rights,
I can't even fathom what the outcome of
my life would have been.
And so with all my hardships,
I am very lucky, right?
And with all of my all the things I've had
to overcome, I've been very privileged.
So just because I was
raised here in in in Canada, in the U.S.
And so that's a very different story
for someone in India.
And as well.
It is. Absolutely.
It is. It definitely is.
And that's a great perspective to not
a mother says to not live with the scars
which you've met as.
You call her Mama Richardson.
But that's what we're saying, is to,
you know,
to not to not live with your scars,
because it's
when you go through trauma
and you go through hardship,
the temptation is to let that to keep
that perspective and never come out of it.
And it's very difficult
for for folks to do that. So
how were you able to do that
and what message do you give to others
when they're going
through their own hardships?
I'm able to do that
because God grace me
with two beautiful sons.
I just dropped my youngest off
to college yesterday.
Congratulations. I am.
I don't like the term empty nester.
I'm officially an open nester,
but I think that when you
when you create life
and I think it's this wonderful journey
that is there for both moms and dads,
but really very unique to motherhood,
is that you want to leave the world
in better shape than you found it.
You want to make sure that you get
I mean, I think I've always taught my kids
until all of us are okay,
none of us are okay.
And I think, you know,
I imagine, like, what do I want the world
to be like if somebody that was my child?
And I
think that's really what motivates me.
I really want to know.
You can't it's necessary for one person
to go and try to save the world.
But it is important
that every one of us takes responsibility
to some degree and tries.
Absolutely.
Absolutely. It's
you talked about privilege.
And when when folks discuss
privilege is often
discussed from a negative point of view.
But I would ask us to look at it
from another perspective.
Privileges
is something that you have. Right.
And it's a it can be male privilege,
it can be white privilege,
and people
automatically like it, defensive about it.
And the first time I understood
that was in law school, right.
In terms of getting defensive
about it, because I went to a
women in the law
class and I think I was the only man
that like, Oh, what's that?
What's up with you?
Oh, yes,
but you're allowed to to order sisters.
I grew up strong
and a strong mother. Right.
But that's clearly.
But I,
but I remember being in the class and,
and there was this conversation
about essentially misogyny,
culture, rape culture, men.
And then I felt a little attacked.
I never had that feeling before.
Like, well,
I feel like all men are responsible
for this or have some privilege in this
and that was basically
what the conversation was about.
And I was kind of like,
I don't want to really understand that.
Right?
And and then somebody just flipped it over
very quickly and said,
you know, if people talk about racism,
it's the same thing.
And the light bulb went off for me.
Right. And I and I got that.
And so when people think about privilege,
privilege is not necessarily
inherently a bad thing.
It's only bad if you abuse it
and you ignore the fact that you have it
right.
It's not bad in itself.
It's not bad itself.
And even if, you know, somebody could say,
and I've actually been asked
this question, you've been homeless,
you've gone through abuse, you've got
and there's a list,
there's a long list out to that things
we won't get into all of those things
now, too.
How can you say you were privileged simply
because even with
all those horrific experiences,
all those challenges and adversities,
I got to experience those adversities
in a place like the United States
or in a place like Canada, Right.
Where a woman can go to a shelter.
Yes, absolutely. It's not.
I mean, that's
a different level of privilege
that most people don't associate. No.
Because you could never know
because life is the reason why they don't
is the mind is relative.
Right.
You can only compare to
what you've seen and understood,
which is why on another podcast
we talked about, the most
beneficial thing one can do is to travel
and understand other cultures
because that really helps you understand.
It'll help you understand a lot.
It'll also help you understand privilege.
Absolutely, quite a bit.
If you go to the wizard
level, is life challenging?
Absolutely.
But would I have liked to have done that
life in a third world country?
Hell no.
Yeah, there's levels of challenge
and people are still able to find a way.
But let's go to some of the challenges
that you're dealing with
with your business in
Spark Seeker.
What problem
are you trying to solve of spark figure?
Well, where do we begin now?
Well, we're solving quite a few things
you don't like.
Online engagement hasn't changed much.
You know,
there might be a new fad or a new filter
or a new this or new that,
but the whole like follow
how engagement is metric sized, how
these platforms are monetized,
not much has changed, right,
in a long, long time.
And really that's where, you know,
whether you are
a nonprofit organization
who has a global community
or a nationwide community and you're
looking to mobilize that community,
get that community engaged,
or you're an individual, whether you are
an influencer,
an individual user of this platforms
like how do you measure engagement,
What is engagement mean to you?
Like,
so do the likes and follows work anymore.
The question with deepfakes, fakes, bots,
all the explosion of all these things.
What does a lot of the metrics
that we get from these platforms?
What do they really mean to a marketer?
Yeah,
What do they mean to an organization?
What does it mean for actual
If we're looking at like a business
to business interaction or,
you know, you're catering to a community
that has let's take a hypothetical,
say the YMCA, right?
If they've got a huge global community,
how are they really engaging
their audience,
how they really staying connected?
How are we creating community
and how are we mobilizing
that community into action?
So that's really what we focus on.
Okay, So give that to me
because I like to get it in
and where we're as as
Joe Madison is, where the goats can get it
right, make it very easy.
What would you say if you had to explain
that in less than two sentences?
What problem are you solving?
We're see engagement and action.
Okay.
All right.
And what would that look like
when the problem solve was spark seeker?
It would look like
we had a more human connection
that was more meaningful and personal.
We felt a true sense of community
and we felt empowered to take action
within our communities
or on topics that matter to us.
Right?
How would we measure that?
You could actually measure that through.
We have a lot of we don't do a invasive
tracking, but we have
aggregated and atomized data in terms of
what does that mean?
Means that we don't associate things
to behavior to.
Rob Richardson.
Okay, we might get some. Okay.
With this many actions
taken on this platform,
this is the amount of good
we were able to do.
There are certain basic metrics
that we can pull,
but it's just not associated to you
because the second it becomes
associated to you,
we're building a profile
and now we're looking to see how we can
manipulate.
Yes, exactly.
So we're not looking to do that.
So we're very mindful about that.
So we we do have a way of maximizing that.
And then, of course, like with
we're going to like the how the platform
is positioned for each organization is a
little bit different with the B2B side.
Okay. So we actually go in
and do a pre assessment.
We look at what the overarching goals are
and then we look to see, first of all,
if we're right
fit in the way we matricide,
the way we can give them the results
that they're looking for.
Is it possible?
So if we do it, then it's a good fit
and we move forward.
So you work with organizations
essentially that are looking for ways
to connect with their communities.
How do you
so you work mostly on the B2B side?
It sounds like at this mostly
the the B2B can always add
like a member of the B2B
side can always add a B to C account
if they want to have a private social
experience or private online experience.
But really, like one of the use cases
might be a university alumni group.
Okay, They've got, you know, stuff
where they want
to get their community
involved in donations events.
They want them to come back
and be part of their communities.
So one of the big, bigger
things that people are trying to get done,
like one big area of interest for us
is there because it's a huge market.
Oh, okay.
Well, you had a university,
so we had connections.
Walk me through what that would look like.
Just and then I want to then
I want to really get into what do you see?
Walk me through what that looks like,
the visual experience.
So online.
So let's just say you were
let's take the university alumni group.
Sure. You're working with them.
How would that look if you were just
to work with them on a very high level?
How would that work with you
working with any university University of
Cincinnati. Well,
what we do is we don't actually have
a regular plot
like the feature of connection.
Our platform is all video based.
Okay, So it's a video centric app.
Okay?
So you go in and it's like,
let's the best analogy would be
if Clubhouse and Zoom had a baby.
Okay,
That's what the video engagement is like.
Okay, They could be one off for recordings
and people can actually search
based on their interests,
actually find a community that was good
unless the clubhouse in Zoom had a baby.
Okay.
So that's sort of our video engagement.
And whether you are starting
a small business at home
and you want to create awareness
around that or you're a big organization
who wants to like, for example,
we've got we know organizations
that have one organization
that has 176 on Facebook, Right.
And all of this is for their community
engagement, right?
And not one department
knows what the other departments are doing
that Very, very disconnected.
Got it.
So like to create a lot of these online
virtual events,
get there to get that community
actually talking.
And then we've got something
called an action feature
where you can actually get them
to take action. Now.
Oh, that's awesome.
So I got it.
So I'm envisioning
kind of how the clubhouse spaces
which turned into Twitter spaces now
and you're in which there's a
huge opportunity
now given where that's at,
but engaging
people but using video to do so.
Yeah, and it's in video.
It's video rooms and video communities.
And so you're building
you're not building your community
because someone liked your software,
someone followed you.
You're building your community
because you sat out to make time
to talk to your community.
Got it. You're Engaging
with your community.
They get to ask you questions.
They get to be part of the conversation.
They want to feel engaged
and they want to know that they matter,
that their opinion matters,
and that they want to feel seen and heard.
Yes. And really, how do we build
relationships in the world?
By connecting. By connecting.
So we got a dollar back
and we got to go back
to our roots of connection
and what connection means and looks like.
So we're doing things
very differently on Spark Seeker
and also like we know
data support science supports
that if you want someone to take action,
they've got to do it.
Now, if you tell them let's take action
a day from now, a week from now,
they won't do it. The drop off
rate is very high.
So if you are looking to mobilize
a community, whether that be towards
a good cause or whether that be towards
a company excursion,
how do you want them to take action?
How do you want them to get involved?
And it's let's do it now.
Okay.
So thinking of that and just walking
through that a little bit,
you know, a lot
of social media platforms
use complex algorithms.
A lot of them are using
I don't want to get into that
because obviously you're going to use a I.
What is your biggest concern
with the current use
of AI for social interactions?
And if you do have concerns
and I assume you do,
how is Spark Seeker or your organization
going to go about changing that?
Well, there's a lot of concerns,
everything from,
you know, disinformation,
the deep fakes with generative AI to
existential threats and elite ism.
And this, you know, it's there's there's
a whole gamut of things to discuss there.
I think on a lot of these social
platforms, like we don't call ourselves
social media,
we're actually social community.
You get to be social,
but we're all about community.
We're not about anything to do
with typical social media.
So we really try to do it.
So it's social community
that's social media.
I think that's such a key point for Go.
I have more later.
Thank you.
But we don't
we haven't deployed any as of yet.
We're building a framework for it.
So that's what I would say.
The number one thing
that would want everybody to do,
really sort of looking at things
from a ethical intelligence place first,
you know, you need ethical
intelligence models first, right?
You need to understand really
what are you building?
And I think, you know, in your
panel tomorrow, wonderful
gentleman that's going to be on the panel
that speaks about explainable that
that's another great topic to get into.
But there's
I think a framework needs to be done.
You need to understand what you're going
to be doing with this A.I..
A.I., I think, can be used
for some amazing things,
specifically like disease prevention. Yes.
You know, early detection, early
like early evaluation,
early findings actually prevent
that from ever actually manifest
or like predicting things
like drought and famine.
So there's a lot of great uses for
I think, that we can see in the future.
And I don't think that it's going to be
an AI itself.
It's going to be when AI converges
with an existing industry
and finds a solution to a problem
within that industry.
Got it.
And I think it's something which is true
because technology is just a tool.
It's doesn't solve.
There's no you got to figure out
what problem yourself in an airplane.
It's all do. Exactly, exactly.
So I think I think there's
some great opportunities to explore.
I think everything is going
to still require that human interaction.
I think it needs to I think the second
we remove the human piece out of it,
I think that's where we start
running into a lot of risks.
How concerned are you that
that's happening?
So what is happening?
Yeah, and that's why
these conversations are so necessary.
I do believe
we're at a very pivotal point in time.
What's the worst case scenario
if we if we don't take the human centric
approach, militarization and,
you know, really jobs, job security,
I think
disparity between countries
like right now with AI,
with the technology,
the tools that we have,
you know, there are third world countries
with a lack of training.
There's going to be an elite decision
that comes out
and there's going to be a huge divide.
Yeah, I mean, I've
the way up to the way I've described it is
we can upgrade inequality, right?
So those who have access to AI and
will have a totally different experience
and opportunities and those that don't,
what else is well,
what is how we defining what
algorithms can do overall,
which are algorithms
that combine the two together
because that's basically what it is.
Are we going to have algorithms only?
And because it's all of this,
all this is possible, right?
Because most
humans don't own land, right?
Shoes,
you know, like the entities own land.
And you could argue
an algorithm is another entity
that can be controlled by a few people.
How important is that
for us to think about?
Like, so how do we get people
to think about that, though?
Because it's
we talk about this a lot on our podcast.
It's very hard
to get people to prevent fires,
even though it's
it'll save you a lot more money.
It's it's what it will save lives.
But people often only see the fire.
Right.
And so like they it's
people can easily put out fires for for
right now people are seeing AI
and they're saying, you know, Kalista,
I hear you,
but let's just figure out a way to
move as fast as we can,
make as much money as we can.
How do we come at that?
Especially we know America is great
for a lot of things when it comes to that.
Generally, we we make as much money first
and figure out
what happens on the back end later.
How do we how do we
how do we change the narrative there?
I think that think
putting the
cart before the horse right now, that is
that is my genuine opinion on that.
I think there is going to always be people
that say,
we'll worry about this, we'll worry
about dealing with the problem later.
Let's just make that money.
But I think that it's going to be,
in this particular case, a runaway train
and it's going to be a lot more undoing.
That may not even be possible
at that point.
Yeah, you know,
I think right now we are at a point
where we need to stop and we need to
we have to understand as human beings
that we live in a supply and demand world.
And if we all want to jump onto a fad,
onto the next greatest thing,
and we just want to use
all the new air tools out there,
it is going to be a runaway train,
but we need to
and then we always sit back and say,
But the government this but
this company did this
and that person will know.
Ultimately, the responsibility is with
each of us as individuals.
What do we accept now, do we have the time
to wait for terms of service?
No, no.
We will complain that our data
is being pillaged, but we agree to it now,
you know,
how much responsibility
do we take as individuals show up?
And by not showing up, you're showing up.
So if something doesn't work,
don't participate.
Oh, man, you're speaking my language.
I tell this, when people are in politics,
I tell people,
you get what you don't vote for, too.
Yeah, people complain every minute.
And I used to go to that.
My former life. I ran for office.
And it's not the people that complain
the most.
You go back and look like you haven't
voted in ten years.
You got a lot of complaints
about what's happening.
It's the same thing, right?
We have to be active citizens.
And I guess and what's happening
when I'm building, nobody's out
there are spending billions,
millions of dollars
building models and no one wants to use
They're in it to make money.
Yeah, but that's the trick, though, right?
So I want to challenge that side
of what you're saying. I don't disagree,
but when all the social media apps
started right,
I think people believed that
they were getting on
to connect with their family.
I think that was a genuine,
genuine interest
that you could connect with people
that you didn't know, what you didn't see,
and it didn't start that way, Right?
Yeah, But to your point, because I love
you said that
social community versus social media,
because my definition of media
is that especially with news
generally, I'd say, you know, media
to the to the brain,
what sugar is to the body.
You get the instant hit,
but then it really kind of takes you down
because the goal is
just to get you emotional reaction.
If you think about it, most of the time,
the amount of information
we get at news doesn't help us.
Yeah, it just really makes us either
depressed or angry or emotional
in some way.
That's really what it does, right?
That's why we keep hearing about
when there's a there could be a crime
to happen in certain area.
There could not have been a crime
for ten years. Right.
But then they'll talk about a crime
that happened because people
over and over and over again cause
people are interested, I'll draw them in.
But it doesn't necessarily really solve
the problem.
I'm making the point
that what social media does
the goal is to click,
but it's not to connect.
I was telling you a little bit
about this piece of that because
I don't agree that,
you know, I think people were misinformed
when they first went on social
because it ever
any of these social platforms
that they ever charge you money for it?
No. So how do we think
how did we ever believe that
a company that gave us something for free
was worth billions of dollars?
Well, I agree with you there.
And I tell people, if you're not the
if it's free, you're not the consumer,
you're the product.
You are the product.
So I think.
But do you think people knew
that genuinely, though?
I think that people it
I know that that's true
because at the end of the day,
they were getting something for free. Yes.
And you know what?
I think we will face that
every single time
you've given somebody something for.
And then now you turn
around and charge you for it.
Why? I got it for free, right?
And then they don't connect.
The issue is such a great point.
I mean, it's have a lot of points on this.
I mean, I agree with a lot of it.
This is my nuance mine,
the challenges people definitely.
I think you're right. Right.
They they got a free product
and they were fine with it.
And then and and I think it got
people used to in a bad way
getting things for free and expecting
things are free
content is free
creators is free, music is free.
We don't like none of this matters.
And then the only people that end up
getting some money are the platforms
that have advertising on there.
And that's it, right?
So it did create other problems
in terms of how we thought about things
because we shouldn't think about things
that there is value to what we're getting,
but we're giving it,
but we're literally not paying for it.
But I would say the other side of it
is I don't know if it was for informed
consent in that agreed in that
I don't think people predicted
and I actually don't think even Facebook
and others predicted how the algorithms
would affect people in terms
of how our politics are going, in terms
of how people are dividing in a way.
And well, I think many those platforms
and I didn't mean to interrupt you,
but I think, you know,
when you when you start tracking
through third party services minute
by minute behavior
of every single person on your platforms,
whether you're a company
or an organization using it social. Sure.
Or you're an individual, it doesn't matter
because companies are just as much risk
or worse.
And so if when you start tracking
everybody and then in order to achieve
a certain result, you're going to deploy
behavior manipulation, tactics
to create deeper engagement, longer
engagement to result in a certain outcome,
whether that be in disinformation
or whether that be a purchase
or whether that you know ads through
ad sales and things like that,
whatever it might be,
there's a surveillance economy
and then there's behavior manipulation
to get certain things to happen.
So it's not just the ad revenue.
This is like the smallest of problems.
Sure.
I mean, I think
as we go into this conversation of AI,
all this data
that's been collected on who we are,
once we switch into a digital currency
and we switch into
AI and we switch into all of these things
that are going to be connected,
how is the data that
that all these organizations have on us?
How is that going to be leveraged
against us?
Where do we qualify for what? Wow.
What kind of jobs are going to be linked
to our data? Wow.
What kind of credit scoring
are we going to be?
Have for medical resources?
Do we have access to it?
What type of criminal justice system
will we have?
What kind of travel permissions
will we have? Oh, wow.
So how I is going to with a
I with the evolution explosion of AI
and with all this data
that's being collected about us,
especially companies and individuals
really need to start thinking about
what kind of platforms am I going to use?
Is it worth it for me
to get something for free
when my data is being pillaged, basically?
And how will that data be
leveraged against me with AI?
That's great at its current trajectory.
So that's where I want everybody
to start thinking and why.
I think Spike because there are necessary.
There you go. Podcast. You do that.
That was great.
No, it's and getting people
to make it to understand
that issue is everything right And that's
why that's why we started this disruption
now That's why we were this conference
and Midwest con
people have to understand
and it's up to us to advocate the problem.
Like I think it's people did sign away
a lot of that so people signed away
a lot of their rights.
They didn't realize it,
but now they can go back and reclaim them.
Right.
And we have to figure out
what are we going to do with all this,
with all this information
that's been collected like we have.
I forget what all the stats are in terms
of the amount of data collected.
It changes every year.
But I think it's we've already repeated
more collected
in times in our history
the last few years.
We have a lot of this information,
but a lot of it is being collected
in a way
that has reinforced the same biases
that we've had forever.
Right?
And so, like, if we
if we're not intentional about how we're
using artificial intelligence, it's
going to really
we don't understand the consequences.
And we ought to at least come from
a mindset of let's make sure
we understand what's happening,
not like turn a blind eye,
make as much money as we can,
and figure it out after the fact.
I think those I think, are really like
ethically speaking,
like I think you really need to sit back
and look at
why are we building these models
that we're building?
What's going into building these models,
how we training was lying,
how do we get people to hear us
like we are?
You, you and I are.
We're obviously preaching
to the converted, right?
How do we get people who don't who just
want to go and watch the algorithm
on that Netflix takes them down
or whatever or social media?
How do we get the attention of
of those of degraded communities
or how do we get the attention
of corporations and others
to make them understand
that this is in their interests
right now versus them
just saying, don't worry about it?
Because that's what concerns me.
Like, I agree with you
I think you you know that.
But what concerns me is that
how how likely are we to get
the attention of enough people
to actually get them to be intentional?
I think that whenever New technology
or new things
come out, it's all nice and new and shiny.
It's like a new car.
And, you know,
we can sit there and talk about,
Oh, it's got this feature
and it's got these bells
and those whistles that we can glamorize
something very quickly.
And I think that's really
what happened with a I agree.
You came up to the house.
Yeah, there's your Bentley
and you have blockchain really to be
that we're we're we're
we're like two side children now.
So no one likes teamwork.
And I think, you know, I think
you you can play the short game.
We can play the long game.
Some of it comes down to ethics.
Yeah, you ethics as a human being
and you ethics as an organization.
Yes, We all want to make money
and you don't.
In an ideal world,
we all want to make lots of money.
Yeah,
but there is more than one way to do that.
Yeah.
You can make money and still have ethics
you can think about.
Okay.
Like I get why companies one won alums
and I get why why is so appealing.
I see the virtues of AI in many ways.
There are many aspects of
AI that I am very excited about.
Sure,
But we can take them and say,
Why are we building what we're building?
What's vital?
Like what is the outcome?
And start
really looking at it from an ethics.
I think ethical intelligence
is very important.
It would be great
if every company could deploy
an ethical intelligence community
or ethical intelligence.
What do you mean by that,
really looking at the core principles
of what ethics is and saying,
hey, listen, this is our business,
this is the problem our business solves.
And as we are coming up,
what is the next feature?
What is the next advancement?
What is the next thing we want to focus on
and how is what we're building
going to support
that outcome, that solution?
And what
what is it that we need to collect
in order to be able to How is it
that we need to train these models?
Where are those biases?
How can those biases, those conscious,
unconscious biases impact people?
Like what are the long term?
I think that that's ethical.
Intelligence needs to be
something that is.
There is a preface to A.I.. Yes.
You know, before artificial intelligence,
we need ethical intelligence.
That's great.
And I think
that's one of the things
I really speak about,
because I think we're entering the
AI renaissance. Yes.
You know, we had many different periods
as the era of the AI renaissance.
So we are all artists
and we're all creators.
And what are we really creating
in this period?
And then, you know, and I think these are
the conversations need to have.
So really, so much of like emotional
intelligence is going to be every company
go out there and put together
an emotional intelligence work.
It's you said we're all you're right.
Something that I said a few years ago.
So I feel like I was predicting the future
a little bit.
So we're all of us are creators and
all of us are media companies, too, right?
And so
we have the ability to
change the narrative that can change
the conversation, that can change
the perspective, that can then solve
problems that people didn't think of.
And I think that's that's
why is so wonderful.
The work
that you're doing with Spark Seeker.
And I think we think
about the opportunity.
It's changing those perspectives, right?
So I'm going to give you
a few rapid fire questions at the end of
tell me you got Spark Seeker.
What does success look like?
I don't define success anymore.
You don't define success anymore.
Okay, so I learned something.
Okay, Tell you this.
I think there's a duality.
One thing I've learned to life
and this is my true sense of wisdom,
for whatever it's worth.
Okay?
There's a duality to everything in life.
Okay?
Nothing is black or white or like,
all good or bad,
there's a duality to everything.
Okay?
And I think the there was a time that I
had to prove over my head and I had to I'm
thankfully in a place where I'm okay, like
I get to create Spark Seeker.
And so for me if I chase
success, the duality of that is failure
that's waiting for me on the corner.
So I'm in the space of creation.
Okay, You're in a space of creation.
I love that. I love that answer.
But I'm going to challenges
you while you're on disruption.
This is what we do.
What does the legacy look like
for Calista?
What does it look like for Spark Seeker
Oof Legacy?
Now there's a word
really closely attached to success,
but still enough of a difference.
I can go down that.
Oh yeah, I like it
when it goes.
Legacy
look like legacy is how you define it.
I was like, No,
I don't want to do that for you. Go
We probably think very much like,
so it's okay.
You probably re right legacy to me
looks like
someone through our work
feels empowered to build a family,
to think differently
and to stand up for humanity's autonomy.
And and
I think we're all just here
to walk each other home.
So, as you know, I'm going to be I'm
going to play a part in that.
And so I hope the work we do
and the way I've lived inspires that.
All right.
What is it uncomfortable truth
that you have that
most people would disagree with you on,
an uncomfortable truth or let's say this,
what's a truth you have
that most people would disagree
with you on and about most people.
But I know that there's a huge just
yeah yeah it doesn't
that it could just be like most people
like it's something that I think
yeah in order for us to ever change
a woman's journey in this world,
we need to start at home with our boys
and our boys are some of the more
lost people that really need more support
and more guidance, more love.
Yeah, I would agree with you.
And I think there will be people that like
people that would disagree with you too,
because there's a lot of
people fight back on that.
But it's very difficult.
I can tell you that as a as a man
and as a boy, to feel like there's a place
you could be
that you can't be vulnerable. Right.
That's a very hard thing for a man
and boy.
And I haven't come close to mastering it
either.
But I know that's difficult because,
I mean, I raised
boys and I can say that, you know,
I raised them to be kind to women.
I raised them to be fair.
I taught them what showing up
looks like for equally and,
you know, I did all those things.
And as a man, as a woman,
it mattered to me.
And I didn't want it
to change that in the world.
But I think with the world, the way it's
changing as rapidly as it's changing
even though maybe it's going in the right
direction, that it's our perspective,
it's who you speak to.
But I do know that there's
a lot more support right now
in this moment in time for women
to navigate these waters than they are
for young boys
who are feeling extremely lost
and they do not know how to speak
and they certainly don't know
what manhood looks like.
That's so true in this world.
And until if we want our journey to change
and I'm ready for our journey to change,
I think, to our boys.
Oh, my gosh, you've you've
you've walked down a line.
There's so many things
I'd like to address on that is
because I do think that's
one of the threads that get ignored.
And you see, there's a reason
why a lot young
boys are attracted to the people like
the Andrew Andrew Tate to those folks.
Right.
They speak to them about mental
health is right.
They see on the rise a suicide, something,
but they're speaking to something
that they're feeling on.
And rather than just saying
all these men are jerks
like you asked another question,
why are they feeling that way?
And how can we figure out
how to address that?
I think that's we just we just agree.
All right.
Final two questions.
One, we'll just do it quickly.
What's your what's theme in life?
What's your theme at the end of the day,
if you had to say the theme for you,
what would that be?
What would that say and why?
A theme, A theme, a saying might is
define yourself for yourself by yourself.
The theme I would say the series of
your choices becomes the sum of your life.
So choose well, I'm just. That's good.
All right. Final question.
You got a committee of three
your advisers for life, business,
spirituality, whatever you want.
Tell me who these three people are and why
who your three people are.
Yeah,
you're three advisors and three advisors.
My mom.
Okay.
And I want to give my sister a sister.
Okay, Well,
could be a worldly sister and a brother.
All right.
But you're not going to name anybody.
It can be whatever capacity could be
personal, could be professional.
But I do believe
the people who are close to my life,
they may not be born with me,
but they're my brothers
and sisters will live that way.
And some of them are the top CEOs.
Some of them are surgeons, some of them
in politics, and some of them are
moms, and they're
all powerhouses in their own right.
And I think depends on what it is.
But if you have one of each of those,
you've got an army by your side
and there's not much you can't take on.
Kalista,
such a pleasure having you on this.
So again,
it was great having you, all of you on.
Thank you for listening.
We're at Midwest Con 2023.
I'm Rob Richardson, CEO of Disrupt Art.
We are taping here
live at the Digital Futures building.
Be sure to check out more of our episodes
at Disruption, our podcast.
We have plenty of great conversations
just like this one with Kalista Zackhariyas.
And this will be
a great will be a great content.
So save it.
Also, you're going to learn
more about our company.
You can look
you can look more in the comments
and the descriptions
and learn more about her.
Also, you can learn
more about disrupt art
and what we're doing to
really change the future of events, change
the future of engagement,
and make sure that we're empowering
creators all across the world.
But always, we thank you for everything
you do and keep disrupting It
is awesome. Thank you