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Diagnosed with Complex Trauma and a Dissociative Disorder, Emma and her system share what they learn along the way about complex trauma, dissociation (CPTSD, OSDD, DID, Dissociative Identity Disorder (Multiple Personality), etc.), and mental health. Educational, supportive, inclusive, and inspiring, System Speak documents her healing journey through the best and worst of life in recovery through insights, conversations, and collaborations.
Over:
Speaker 2:Welcome to the System Speak Podcast, a podcast about Dissociative Identity Disorder. If you are new to the podcast, we recommend starting at the beginning episodes and listen in order to hear our story and what we have learned through this endeavor. Current episodes may be more applicable to longtime listeners and are likely to contain more advanced topics, emotional or other triggering content, and or reference earlier episodes that provide more context to what we are currently learning and experiencing. As always, please care for yourself during and after listening to the podcast. Thank you.
Speaker 3:We have emails today. Sherry says, I just finished listening to your Systems Beat podcast on age and development. I have listened to all other podcasts so far, and your courage shines brightly. I must thank you from the base of my being for your candor, honesty, and reality. This one in particular spoke to all my parts and gave voice to my struggles and gave us all direction.
Speaker 3:We'll be sharing this with my partner and dearest supporters. I was able to reconnect to my most hopeful parts and allow those struggling parts to float a while, noting that my river of tolerance has joined with others and we're all bobbing along. Thank you from all those who feel heard and understood for your courage. All our best, the Fern Collective. Oh my goodness.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much for this. It is such an encouragement. Anytime any of us to get to one of those places that's like a breakthrough moment where it's not just hard, but we also find hope again, I think all of us are trying to alive ourselves every single day. And there are so many episodes and so much of therapy that really is so hard. There's so much relationally and professionally.
Speaker 3:And with all of our ships that is so hard, so much of parenting that can be so hard. Anytime we have those moments where we get to come up for air and see that it is working and that healing is happening and that we are making progress even though it's not easy, I think gives us so much strength and hope. Thank you for sharing. Lexi says, Dear Emma, for several years now, I've been wanting to recommend two books to you, and I feel that now you're working through Homecoming by Tema Bryant. They should fit in well and naturally as waypoints on your journey.
Speaker 3:I do realize that it is, shall we say, less than ideal to only recommend the books instead of mailing you a copy. That's totally fine. I can find the books. Thank you so much. I have instead taken the liberty of offering a sales pitch for them both such that you might decide for yourselves regarding whether they might be good investment of your time and money.
Speaker 3:The first book was originally written in somewhat aged German, which is why I picked the only modern English translation. In case you read it and find you want to recommend it, please tell people they'll want to get that particular translation. Its choice of words is so much better. If you look it up, you might find it's framed as political. That is not true.
Speaker 3:It is psychological and philosophical in nature. As such, it relates to everything, and books which relate to everything are oftentimes misrepresented as being political. Same. Same. That is especially true if you're writing about radical freedom, liberation of the individual, and personal agency in Prussia's Berlin in the eighteen forties, seventy years before the transcontinental phone call, a time and place where proclaiming I am my own sovereign was essentially blasphemy, high treason, and in any case, an unheard of scandalous indecency all rolled into one.
Speaker 3:This sounds juicy. I'm excited about it. So please don't be dissuaded by the classification. I feel that it delivers a very strong healing message of liberation, agency, and indeed of homecoming to anyone, but especially to survivors of organized and or religious abuse. And I feel that core aspects of this message are curiously absent from the trauma literature I have heard so far.
Speaker 3:That is exciting, and I will make sure I read it before we do final edits on our current book. I know you've said you're a person of faith. For this reason and many other reasons, the book will probably step on your toes. It certainly stepped on mine. Regarding that, I would like to note four aspects.
Speaker 3:Number one, whenever someone steps on our toes simply by telling us that we're free, that is something worth looking into, an excellent opportunity for growth. Number two, it can be read as a toolbox, a personal liberation manual akin to a therapy manual. Take what you need and leave the rest. Number three. The author, writing in Prussia in the eighteen forties, argues against the church as an oppressive organization.
Speaker 3:He further argues against lowercase god, the man made concept. However, uppercase god, the transcendent, indescribable, incomprehensible is not actually in the scope of his analysis. I love this, and I've talked about this in several ways where there's a difference between, like, in recovery, they say higher power and the difference between what I actually experience spiritually and what other people have used to control me in the name of their version of a god, which really made themselves god, which actually is idolatry, by the way. But that's a whole side quest. Number four, if while you're reading, you keep in mind that as per Genesis, you're created in God's image, that cast the message of this book in a very empowering light.
Speaker 3:There's a wide range of internalized oppression of cases in which the victim not only follows, but internalizes the rules set out by perpetrators. Wow. That's the social contracts we've been talking about. This book is the original antidote and throughout the decades has lost none of its potency because it drills down to the core of it all. Oh my goodness.
Speaker 3:And then there's a link, which I will also share in the show notes. Number two, the second book relates to the other key message from true philosophy, which is weirdly absent from trauma literature, which is that pleasure is the guide to life. Non profit, status, virtue, holiness, hardiness, and not even self care or love are the guides to life, only pleasure. Pleasure is not lusting for, craving for. It is not luxuria or gluttony.
Speaker 3:Those are pains. The guide to life is the pleasure of having shelter, of having food to eat, the pleasure of having a stable income and savings for a rainy day, the pleasure of friendship of a helping friend, the pleasure giving and receiving love and care, the pleasure of art, song, and dance, the pleasure of faith, the pleasure of attunement, the pleasure of nature, the pleasure of owning our own bodies and being free from pain. Pleasure is the warmth of sunshine swinging in the backyard, hearing your kids giggle. It is having done well at a presentation. It is catching a bus just in time.
Speaker 3:It is the feeling we get when something from Maslow's pyramid is brought about. Trauma literature taught me to stop doing what is painful, but Epicurean philosophy taught me to start doing what is pleasurable, to not only set ourselves free from pains, bad people, addictions, worries, perfectionism, but also to capture pleasures. Okay. I actually love this a lot because that was actually what my very first podcast was about, which they I don't know if they even called them podcasts back then. It was so long ago, maybe 2008.
Speaker 3:It's not still out there. Don't go digging for it. It's long gone. But at the very beginning, when before Apple's were phones, when they were still the Apple Store was just iPods, the little tiny square ones and things, Oh my goodness. Those were the days I was running at the river with my little dog.
Speaker 3:I have so many side quest stories that have just surfaced in my brain. Thank you so much for this email. It says, just like pain, pleasure is a built in core sensation. And because pleasure is simply the absence of pain, it is thus the guide to life, especially for those with deprivation. Knowing not only what to walk away from, but also what to walk towards is crucial.
Speaker 3:Just like we're designed to feel pain from what hurts us, we are designed to feel pleasure from what helps us. Pleasure is not lust or arousal. Pleasure is not a dirty word. It is what every newborn naturally seeks. Pain is what every animal shies away from.
Speaker 3:Pleasure is what all animals seek, including humans. Trauma in society can only obscure that connection. They might set us up to pursue limitless goals, such as status or addictions. They might even train us to tolerate certain pains. But deep down, we still know, which is why status alone or why acting virtuously according to a high demand religion by itself doesn't actually make us happy.
Speaker 3:This is why it is that literature keeps telling us to act such that we minimize the long term net amount of pain in our life, but doesn't tell us to maximize the long term net amount of pleasure too. Why is it that specific pains are generally named for what they are, pains and painful? But pleasures are only ever listed in the specific. Have you tried sports? Go meet your friends.
Speaker 3:Instead of giving us the generic key to unlock that which fills our lives with life by actually naming that which to seek out, by giving us language. There's a generic word for all that self care, adulting, relationship building, resource using, nature experiencing, and marshmallow roasting. It's called pleasure. Epicurean philosophy was invented, formalized, and rose to prominence in the four hundred years between the Old and New Testament, which is how Paul meets them in Athens. It declined from February as the stoics increasingly took over who held total virtuousness as the guide to life.
Speaker 3:Even if it meant a pointless death, they were more useful soldiers. And, oh, that just I felt that in my belly. That was yucky. And then Christianity was made of the Roman Empire state religion in March, again, because they made good soldiers. That's happening now in politics too.
Speaker 3:As a consequence, the Vatican itself and various monastic libraries preserved key Epicurean texts from antiquity to the present day. The rediscovery of one of them is commonly credited with having brought about the enlightenment period, which in turn brought us our freedoms and rights as individuals, scientific progress, and from that, most of our modern luxuries as pleasure seeking comfort creatures. If this sounds at all intriguing, you might want to look up, and then there's a couple of essays and a list of a book. You I can put all this in the show notes. You will find Epicurean philosophy argues for a strictly materialist view of the world.
Speaker 3:However, once again, we can view it as a toolbox. Take what we need and ignore the rest. This is what Thomas Jefferson, a Christian of firm faith, did when he too wrote, I am an Epicurean, and I consider the genuine, not the imputed, doctrines of Epicurus as containing everything rational and moral philosophy which Greece and Rome have left us. The absence and opposite of pain is called pleasure. Pleasure is not a dirty word.
Speaker 3:It is a guide to life. And then there's links for that. Oh my goodness, Lexi. Thank you so much. I have so much to say about this, but I'll do it separately when we talk about these texts.
Speaker 3:Thank you for sharing. Dear MS, I'm listening to Homecoming three of three, and it is fire. It is profound. It is uplifting, and it is revelation. Yes.
Speaker 3:Revelatory. Thank you so much for sharing. Oh, thank you for your encouragement. BJ says, how do you predict the pace of healing trauma? Maybe it doesn't have a definitive answer, so I'm searching for any answer at this point.
Speaker 3:How do I predict the pace of healing trauma? The pace. How do I predict the pace? Well, my understanding is that for any of us, healing happens at the slowest pace that the slowest person inside needs. So not just the youngest, but the slowest to heal, That's how fast we go, as slow as they need.
Speaker 3:Anne sent me a sweet card in the mail and says, Emma, you were brave to rescue yourself in the midst of hopelessness. You persevered during the hard, and you are claiming your identity with beauty and grace. And in the package that I got in the mail were these amazing earrings of little tiny knit chickens, but they're rainbow chickens. I don't know how to describe these. I will put them up on the share cast and on Instagram, which I am not interacting at all, by the way, but I'm trying to have back as part of reclaiming the nonprofit.
Speaker 3:And so I will put a picture of them there so you can see. But, yeah, just to be clear, we are not interacting at all on social media, but I will put them there so you can see. That way we can share safely, but it feels safer. Oh my goodness. This is these are amazing.
Speaker 3:Wait until you see. Anne also said, I watched a documentary on the experiences of deaf people in The UK. I was shocked, although as I have thought about it, it makes so much sense how challenging it is for deaf people to learn to read a spoken language. That that the way we teach with phonics is useless to people who can't hear, that so many deaf kids leave school with reading age of between 11 and 13. I went to a composite school with deaf and hearing kids, and we shared some classes, and I learned ASL.
Speaker 3:I wanted to notice how much you have achieved in the hearing world. Oh my goodness. That's so kind. Thank you. The foxes said, hi, Emmas.
Speaker 3:So ships. I like ships. I love the water. I like being on the water and sailing peacefully in the wind and the waves. I like the sound of water running past the boat without engine noise or noise from society in general.
Speaker 3:I like ships so much I studied in college to become a naval architect and marine engineer. That is, I know how to design and build ships. My senior year project this is amazing. My senior year project was to design a container ship, one of the ships that carry shipping containers by the thousands. Oh my goodness.
Speaker 3:I had no idea they could hold that many. So here I am sailing through life trying to hold it together, recover, and learn how to not just survive, but learn how to love life. With the DID, I think that should be capitalized, the DID. It feels like I am more of a small bunch of patched up boats trying to sail together as a fleet, oftentimes not in the same direction or at the same time. And every day is a storm or gale threatening threatening to swamp and sink us.
Speaker 3:Right? I love that image. I don't enjoy when it feels like that, but that is such a beautiful way of saying it. I know someone else who says who calls it minefields, that there's just memory time minefields all around us. Do you guys hear?
Speaker 3:When we're talking about annihilation anxiety, which I know I talked about some at the beginning of this year and then again after Doris' episode, but when we're talking about annihilation anxiety, this is the terror of facing what we have had to face. It is the terror that our lives are in danger at any moment, and that is horrifying. And this is a beautiful description of it, foxes. Thank you so much. I have been on this healing journey since 2009.
Speaker 3:Some events came together to make me face the past and to start to acknowledge the fragmented self. Since then, I have done a lot of work, some inpatient, some in day programs, most with weekly therapy. For a long while, every other week therapy, because I couldn't afford the money or the time. Right? That is so real.
Speaker 3:That is so real. My therapists have been good to me and kept me going in the right direction, even when I didn't know what that was. Most of this work has been done by myself, for myself, and with myself. Given the trauma which gave rise to the DID, I thought and felt that I wouldn't need or want anyone else. At my core, I'm an introvert.
Speaker 3:I know that you describe yourself as an introvert, but I believe I could be more introverted than you. I think that's amazing that you recognize that. And also, I think part of my everyday daily distress is that I am not permitted to be an introvert. Like, because I need and want to attend community groups, because I have clients online, because I am a parent, because the podcast, there's these different things that does not actually permit me to be myself in that introverted way. And so part of that has been to balance out the trauma where silence was forced upon me, which is something I continued to reenact through relationships.
Speaker 3:And so it was important to tend to that and heal that, but that's different than not having a choice or having a preference. And so I think it's something for me that I will still be talking about in therapy for a while. My therapist has already brought it up because it's an example of something that I'm depriving myself of. It's just the permission to be an introvert. And I think part of it has to do with the trauma of being so isolated.
Speaker 3:How will I be introverted without drowning? Like, can I be introverted and stay alive? Especially as the kids grow and I don't have some of these natural interactions built in. So what is a tricksy thing? And it certainly is something in my therapy that we're already talking about it.
Speaker 3:They say, honestly, if I'm ever given the chance to live on the moon by myself for a year, I will be up there loving it. COVID was a dream come true. Oh, no. I have to stay in my house and not interact with anyone. Please don't throw me in the briar patch.
Speaker 3:For real, there are layers of this that I totally agree with, and coming out of quarantine was painful. The foxes say, as I said earlier, I like ships. I love listening to stories about sailing. There's a series of books by Patrick O'Brien about a sea captain in the Royal Navy during the earlier eighteen hundreds. I listened to that series again and again.
Speaker 3:There are about 20 some books in the series. I love every single one of them. Since the start of COVID around 2020, I listened to the audiobooks on repeat anytime I had to drive anywhere. I thought I had figured out what I was going to listen to in the car forever. No more news, no more politics, no more annoying advertisements.
Speaker 3:Just audiobooks about sailing the ocean during the Napoleonic Wars. But one of my parts experienced a taste of friendship. Oh, that'll ruin everything. A connection that blew us away. Internally, we grew and changed in that ship more than a few weeks than in the past fifteen years.
Speaker 3:Of course, a rupture happened because my friend wasn't ready and able to handle the DID. They needed to do their own work to have healthier boundaries. So snorkels. Now I have a problem. I know connection and friendship are critical to growth as a system.
Speaker 3:I can't ignore it any longer. I checked with my therapist, and she doesn't have many suggestions for DID support groups. So being an introvert to the Internet, we go. Facebook is not our thing because people drama and drama people. Oh my goodness.
Speaker 3:I appreciate that so much. YouTube has some videos, but how do I sift through all that? Reddit has a group for DID, so we check that out. Not posting, just reading. However, that group is not always healthy.
Speaker 3:Not bad, mind you, but people stuck reenacting trauma, trauma dumping, a few stories of growth, but not as many. There was one post though that said you should really check out the System Speak podcast. So I trot over to the podcast app on my phone and do a search. System Speak podcast popped right up. Great.
Speaker 3:Let me listen to a couple of episodes and get a feel about this. If you are new to the podcast, we recommend starting at the beginning episode
Speaker 1:and listen in order to hear our story and what we
Speaker 3:have learned through this endeavor. Oh my goodness. That's a lot of words. Does it really say that all at the beginning? I may need to look at that again.
Speaker 3:It's probably time. It's been a while since we updated everything. Maybe I should just find the first episode. Bam. Sasha.
Speaker 3:My teenage part goes wild. Then in the second episode, doctor e explains about DID. In fifteen years of therapy, no one has ever told me the things I heard on that episode. Here is a quote from my journal after listening. In episode two, doctor e explained what DID is.
Speaker 3:It was one of the most helpful descriptions I have ever heard. Her description of how DID forms was terrific. We all identified a lot with what she had to say. I have a ton of questions, but now I don't feel like I'm such a freak. I feel like someone out there understands and gets us.
Speaker 3:Maybe there's a way to find healing. Wow. There's hope. Oh my goodness. That's making me cry.
Speaker 3:I'm so grateful. I'm so grateful.
Speaker 1:That's really real. That's what it's all about. Someone told me recently, they asked me if I don't know if I can
Speaker 3:say this, if I can talk about this. Someone asked me recently, and I will take it to therapy, but someone asked me recently if part of this body of work, which I had never heard to the podcast referred as a body of work until last year, actually. And it was that phrase and the honoring of the podcast as a body of work that actually helped me be able to start bringing the episodes back after they had been taken down. I couldn't until then. But when I acknowledged it for myself as a body of work, then it was too important to let it go.
Speaker 3:And someone was asking me about that last week and or recently and said, I have wondered privately, and this was in context, it was appropriate for them to say, I had wondered privately if part of why you did the podcast to keep people alive is because of the loss of your ex. My first girlfriend who died by suicide, which I don't talk about often.
Speaker 1:And I think they're not wrong. I know what it means to lose someone because they can't stay alive anymore, and I know what it's like to feel like a whale who's gonna drown even if they don't want to. And so to receive a message like this is so powerful that it's worth it. That's all I need. I don't need followers.
Speaker 1:I don't need it to be the favorite or the best or the most well known. I don't care about any of those things. I just want it to be one voice in the dark for anyone who's trying to stay alive, to have something to hold on to when it feels like there's nothing else. So your message really means a lot to me, and I'm very grateful. And I know that's not necessarily what you were talking about, but that's what it brings up in me, and I'm so grateful.
Speaker 1:I wanna keep myself alive. I also wanna honor her life that was too short. That's true. And I also just want people to know they don't have to be alone while trying to stay alive. The foxes said, all of a sudden, Patrick O'Brien is out the window, and I am binge listening to your podcast.
Speaker 1:Then you talk about how connection brings healing. Yeah. I know and experienced this to be true only a few weeks ago. Connection changed the system. Yous talk about your system.
Speaker 1:Yous talk about what helps in therapy. Yous talk about making friends. Yous talk about how caregiver relationships from the past and how that impacts dissociation in DID. Talk about a healing journey. Yous talk about getting to know your system and talk with other systems about how they grow, how to deal with issues so common to DID folks.
Speaker 3:My therapist talked about accepting my parts for years. I have no idea or concept to even begin to connect with what that means. You demonstrate trying to do just that on your podcast. I finally got it in less than thirty minutes. I feel like I was a ship cruising along who stumbled across the wake of someone amazing.
Speaker 3:You want to build a community for people with DID, community to support one another, community to build friendships, community to offer care to one another, community on how to find a good therapist, community without drama. You blazed this trail starting back in 2014.
Speaker 1:And so I turn my ship about and start trying to follow in the wake of something amazing that has passed by. A few months into listening, I'm turning my introvert.
Speaker 3:I'm turning in my introvert membership. I want in on the community. I checked the website and eventually found my way to the Mighty Networks app and signed up. I was actually relieved to see you have to pay money to be a part. It's not a lot of money, but it does mean you have to make a commitment and be serious about the account.
Speaker 3:Less people will pop in for a week and then be gone.
Speaker 1:Oh my goodness. I'm so glad you understand that. We don't mean it to be exclusive. We mean it to be safe and serious.
Speaker 3:You have to be serious about joining and wanting in. I thought, yes. This is what I want. I tell myself, there is no chance that I will get to interact with Emma's. She's going to be too busy and not have time for new people.
Speaker 3:But I can join some small group and start getting to know people who have a similar mindset and are looking to build a community in a way that has never been done before, not like this. Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1:I can't stop crying. So here I am. That's a brief overview of my story and how I found my way. Honestly, I had no idea I would see or interact with you in the first check-in. I was really surprised, but it quickly became apparent.
Speaker 1:2025 Emmas is not the same Emmas from 2019 or podcast Emmas. I know nothing about 2025 Emmas. I don't even know how you prefer to be addressed. Emmas is fine. Emmas is great.
Speaker 1:I can go by Emmas. And, also, I may be better than I've ever been, and I'm so grateful, but it has been a painful, painful journey. Those were some stormy seas. I love the content you have put into the podcast. I love your authenticity and vulnerability, but I don't know you.
Speaker 1:I know the content you chose to put into the content. I know the content you chose to put into the podcast. I'm a fan of the content. It makes a big impact on me, but I'm not here to be a fan. All I want from you is for you to keep doing your thing.
Speaker 1:You be you. If that means you never put out another episode on the podcast, I'm good with that. You've inspired me enough to come and try to be a part of the community. If I get to know you, great. If not, there are lots of other people you have inspired, and I hope to get to know them.
Speaker 1:I'm here first and foremost to learn, to listen, to build trust, to get to know the group and systems online, for them to get to know me slowly, trying to learn how to trust when trauma from the past keeps telling me not to bother. I am here to learn how to be myself without the worry of being normal. I'm here to allow my system to know and experience that it's okay to be me. Here is a group I fit in. I've always felt different than others, but not here.
Speaker 1:Here, there is something for all of my parts, all of me, a me that has lots of mes. Here, it is okay to be smart. It is okay to have parts. It is okay to need to heal. It's okay to heal.
Speaker 1:It's okay to laugh. It's okay to do stuff on a Zoom without anyone saying anything. It's okay to be quiet and just to be a calmed, relaxed presence nearby. It's okay to switch. It's okay to have child parts.
Speaker 1:It's okay to avoid things that are a trigger. It's okay to have triggers. It's okay to be sensitive. It's okay to be thoughtful. It's okay to journal.
Speaker 1:It's okay to be insightful. It's okay to ask questions and learn. I'm here to learn and practice safe boundaries for me and others I relate to, to be responsible for me first and not for everyone else or what they are dealing with, to offer help, understanding, and relatability when I can, to learn what a healthy ship looks like and to practice that. I'm not here to trauma dump. I know that is a thing, and it's not good.
Speaker 1:I'm not
Speaker 3:here to trauma bond. Also a thing. Also not good.
Speaker 1:I'm not here to date, period. I'm here. Here I am. That's my story of how I came to join the Systems Beat community. I feel like I have found my people.
Speaker 1:Thanks for leading the way. If you want to get to know me or have questions for me, great. Fire away. I will be happy to answer your questions. Also a bit intimidated by you as one of our heroes.
Speaker 1:At
Speaker 2:the
Speaker 1:end of the day, I'm just a ship following from a far off distance, bobbing along, benefiting from the wake you've left. Oh my goodness. I don't even have more words. Just thank you so much.
Speaker 4:I've heard it said that people come into our lives for a reason, bringing something we must learn, and we are led to those who help us most to grow if we let them. And we help them in return. I don't know if I believe that's true, but I know I'm who I am today because I knew you. Like a comet pulled from orbit as it passes the sun. Like a stream that meets a boulder halfway through the wood.
Speaker 4:Who can say if I've been changed for the better, but because I knew you, I have been changed for good. And it well may be that we will never meet again in this lifetime. So let me say before we part, so much of me is made from what I learned from you, and you'll be with me like a handprint on my heart. And now whatever way our story isn't, I know you have rewritten mine by being my friend, like a ship blown from its mooring by a wind off the sea, like a sea dropped by a skybird in a distant wood. Who can say if I've been changed for the better?
Speaker 4:Because I knew you, I have been changed for good. And just to clear the air, I ask forgiveness. For the things I've done, you'd blame me for. But then I guess we know there's blame to share, and none of it seems to matter anymore. Like a comet pulled from orbit as it passes the sun.
Speaker 4:Like a stream that meets a boulder halfway through the wood. Who can say if I've been changed for the better? Because I knew you. Because I knew you. Because I knew you.
Speaker 4:I have been changed for good.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for listening to us and for all of your support for the podcast, our books, and them being donated to survivors and the community. It means so much to us as we try to create something that's never been done before, not like this. Connection brings healing. One of the ways we practice this is in Community Together. The link for the community is in the show notes.
Speaker 2:We look forward to seeing you there while we practice caring for ourselves, caring for our family, and participating with those who also care for community. And remember, I'm just a human, not a therapist for the community, and not there for dating, and not there to be shiny happy. Less shiny, actually. I'm there to heal too. Being human together.
Speaker 2:So, yeah. Sometimes, we'll see you there.