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Podcast host and thriller author David Temple gives you a front-row seat to the best thriller writers in the world. If you like thriller fiction in Books, Movies, and TV Shows, you’ll love The Thriller Zone Podcast.
The Thriller Zone with David Temple (00:01.731)
Hello and welcome to the Thriller Zone. I'm your host David Temple and on today's 194th episode of the Thriller Zone as we roll right through summertime, I present Henry Wise. Now Henry has a debut thriller called Holy City and as you're gonna find out real quick, it's a good one. So kick back, relax and put your hands together for our new friend Henry Wise here on the Thriller Zone. The Scott Blackburn interview from a couple years ago.
Way back, yeah. You said that you had Lynchburg ties. here we go, folks. We're recording now. Here we go. Talk to me, Henry. I just remember you saying that you had spent part of your childhood in Lynchburg, which is just crazy to me. Well, where do you live? I live in Lexington, Virginia right now. I saw parts of Roanoke in your conversation. Was that a book tour or do you have family there? I actually do.
have family there, my wife's family is. How funny is that? And why is it so unique about the Lynchburg thing? You mean just because what are the chances of a big movie star like me coming from Lynchburg? Yeah, I mean, it's, well, I'm insane. It's one thing if somebody says, you know, they've got connections to DC or Richmond. Right. Lynchburg's a small world. you think?
I just don't hear a lot of people claiming that they've lived there. Well, I could dig down a few reasons why you wouldn't want to claim that you live there, but this show is about you, Henry Wise, not about me. So I'm going to shove my pie hole about that, except to say this. There is a book called Holy City, and I say, Holy City, this is good, which we're going to drill down to. Go ahead and take the round of applause. There should be golf claps around.
Thank you. got so many things to say. mean, it's such a handsome debut, but I would like to get to know you first. We now know we share Southern roots, which is very evident in Holy city, which we'll drill down on in a second. But let's see. I was born in Carolina, raised in Virginia. You were born and raised in Virginia, right? Correct. And you did a little, you did some time at VMI.
The Thriller Zone with David Temple (02:19.63)
I say that jokingly, but Virginia Military Institute will straighten a crooked man, shall we say. That's right. Yeah, it's a tough place. But you got good things out of it. What's the best thing you walked away with? think stubbornness, perseverance. I that's where I became a serious writer. It wasn't the best place to develop a writing routine, but it taught me to be resilient, under
Resilient, understressed, determined, tenacious. All the things that you need as a writer, right? Absolutely necessary. And let's see, you got an MFA from you of Mississippi, so why did you pick that school? curious. Well, actually the only two undergraduate schools that I would have chosen were VMI and Ole Miss. So I've always been an Ole Miss fan. It didn't...
It didn't hurt that that was one of the few MFA programs that offers full funding. Wow. Well, we have a whole bunch of mutual friends in and around the writing community, which we're going to get to in just a couple of minutes, but it's an amazing thing. And it's a beautiful thing. And it's a cool thing that so many great writers are coming out of the South these days. And well, they always have, but I mean, there's a swell.
of swell writers coming out of the south anywhere from you know upper virginias down to lower carolina's and in the mississippi and texas and tennessee and so forth but i love the fact that you have appeared in so many writing chronicles that we know of the southern culture shannon doha probably the most high -profile publications that i had for holy city were radar poetry and shannon doha
A lot of guys and gals when they decide on that book that's going to be their debut They will have spent an inordinate amount of time on it. What made you decide? That this was that story i'm sure you have a book a ring full of stories that you're like man It could be this it could be that so i'm just curious what made you Shoot out of the gate with this one. I wrote a a novel before this set I lived in typhoon
The Thriller Zone with David Temple (04:40.088)
four years. And I actually got serious about surfing there. I lived on the remote East Coast, which is kind of like the American West. You know, it's very aboriginal, very indigenous. And there weren't a lot of people to surf with. And there is this, you know, this kind of rugged terrain and, you know, a lot of reefs and stuff like that. Anyway, I became obsessed with surfing and I wrote about
And I wrote a complete novel, I still believe in, but it never found a home. And somebody gave me the advice, a woman named Kathy Belden, who at the time was executive editor, I think, at Bloomsbury. She was actually Jessamyn Ward's editor. And she said, I just had the opportunity to meet her. And she said, you know, I think
you need to write about home. And that's all she said really. And I took that to heart because the first one, you know, I tried to find an agent for something like six or seven years and I couldn't find one. And this book, Holy City, was a rebound in a way. It became more than that. But at first I said, well, damn it, I'm gonna write prime fiction so I can sell a book here.
A lot of times it comes down to what will sell, right? Crime helps a plot. It gives you a plot to work with. Very quickly this book became more than just a crime novel, which I think a lot of people are saying about it. I'm glad they're saying that. But I've always been interested in crime fiction, so it wasn't too much of a stretch, but I just never thought I'd write
enjoyed it and I'm gonna I'm gonna save a couple of my comments after the break because it it showed up someplace recently that I want to share with the folks so let's do this let's take a real quick break and then we're gonna be back with the Henry Wise right after this here on the Thriller Zone don't move
The Thriller Zone with David Temple (06:53.774)
Welcome back, David Semple here with Henry Wise, a debut thriller writer. Holy City is the book and holy bananas, it is a good one. Henry, thank you for hanging out with us. Thanks, David. Really glad to be here. So I don't know if you knew this or not. I don't know if you caught the show, but just a couple of weeks ago as we did our top 20 summer reads, you came in at number 18. Wow. And here's why.
I enjoyed your book on so many levels. Sure, there is that familiar twang of the South. I said this in the show, the ever present thickness of atmosphere and those crusty characters that we all love to hate. But most of all, and in some odd, comfortable fashion, it reminds me as we kind of started the show of home with that sticky humidity, acres of tobacco as far as the eye could see, and that easy comfort of neighbors.
That is kind of my review. It sounds all warm and fuzzy, even while you've got murder and mayhem going on. But what I wanted to take away was that when a writer can capture that sense of home and atmosphere and make me sit there and flash back to childhood, even amongst the darkness, it's a good thing. Thank you. Yeah, it's the bringing out the texture.
of the region was very important to me. Not a lot of people know about South Side, Virginia. You know, there, as we were talking before about Lynchburg, even Lynchburg, the city of Lynchburg, not many people really know it. Not many people visit there unless they've got some sort of ties to it. And that whole region to the south of Lynchburg is sort of a blip on a lot of people's radar, you
People think about DC, people think about Richmond, Eastern Virginia, but there's that whole area from Emporia basically to Roanoke and south of Lynchburg that not a lot of people visit, not a lot of people know about. And if I may jump on top of that, I mean, moved, our family moved to Lynchburg. I was six years old. So I went from a little town called Tobaccoville, North Carolina, which is where I was born.
The Thriller Zone with David Temple (09:15.648)
You think Lynchburg is small. think there there was a stop sign in Tobaccoville. Three guesses as to what they were famous for. But Lynchburg, yeah, between Lynchburg, Roanoke, Danville, the whole Shenandoah Valley. I grew up staring at the Blue Ridge Mountains my whole life. So but that area, it's it's kind of nowhere, which is so funny. You should say that because I don't I don't get into a whole lot of conversations of people about Lynchburg. And then, of course, it's home
Some real historically significant televangelists and we'll just leave it at that liberty has just exploded I mean, it's unbelievable dude. I went to that school when it was a mudfield and we went to classes in a trailer I I kid you not trailers in the middle of a field I ruined more dress shoes growing up and I look I haven't even been there in 30 years, so I haven't even seen it but my brother lives nearby and he says
It's its own city. It is. When I was at VMI, which was 20 years ago, they had an ice hockey rink, Liberty. And so who knows what they've got now? I think it's just spread out. Yeah. Well, enough about memory lane. I want to talk about you, Henry, in this book. want to ask the very first thing I asked about, you know, why this one and how did you decide on this breakout novel? I want to know how the experience has been because in just two seconds, I'm going to share a couple of quotes.
from some people that some of whom have been on the show and that our listeners know about. But I mean, tell me what this experience has been like. What was the date that it dropped? It dropped June 4th. The experience, mean, it's been surreal. The publication has been surreal because, you know, I'm just trying to work on the next project. The whole experience of getting this book picked up has been completely a surprise. I did not think that this would ever be published. I was...
Certain that it would never be published which I think was actually a good thing because I took some risks I believed in the book and I wanted to make it interesting for myself I was also kind of I was kind of like well, I'm all too familiar with rejection This is not gonna sell
The Thriller Zone with David Temple (11:32.344)
All right, a couple of things. have to jump in here. A couple of things. Everybody feels that. So welcome to the club. The fact that you thought, there's no way this thing is going to sell. And then it debuts. And then as the accolades will share, people are raving about it. So I love the fact that you said this and boy, you'll notice that I closed the show with best writing advice. So I'm going to put you on the rivet too as well. So don't forget about that. But how many people have said, write what you want to read.
Write what you enjoy being around. Write what you know. Write what makes you happy. So the fact that you did that, I think, puts you way ahead of everybody, a lot of people, writing. I think a lot of people write what they think they can sell. I just don't think that's a good idea because if you're writing what you think you can sell, that means you're writing what has already been written because you know it can sell.
I mean, there's going to be some of that. People love crime fiction. I know. I knew that going into it. But the crime in the book is just one part of, is one thin layer, really. While you're saying that, go ahead and tell my audience what this book is about so that I don't do any spoiling on it. Yeah, this book is about Will Seams, who is a relatively new, I mean, I would call him a rookie deputy sheriff.
he's richard returned from ten years away in richmond virginia's return to his childhood the home of his people in rural south side virginia and he he moved away to richmond initially after the tragic death of his mother and so he's returning in part to face that he ends up facing more in his past and he would probably like to i think a lot
listeners could probably relate to that. Did I see in your social media, because yeah, I was doing a little trolling. Were you at that bookstore in downtown Roanoke? Yes. Book No Further. Book No Further. Such a, such a cool place and a great place to have an event. So folks, I promise this. Like, I just want to share just a very small handful. Yeah. You can go wide with Publishers Weekly who says bold characters and splendid prose. Check.
The Thriller Zone with David Temple (13:54.434)
But how about S .A. Cosby who says, City is an amazing piece of work, a Southern novel that examines the pathos and ethos of small town life and the weight of both grief and hatred. He loved it. Megan Abbott, guest of our show, loved her stuff. A haunting story of crime and the myriad ways that one can be punished. That's a good, good one. And our old friend Ace Atkins who, I mean, come on now, he's down there from your neck of woods where you studied and so forth.
Wise balances a bold literary voice with authentic storytelling and the kind of gritty southern thriller that's right down my alley. When you can get Ace to say that, you know you've done something. Yeah, he's, it's been a real pleasure to get to know him. He wasn't associated with Ole Miss at all. And I actually just did the book launch with him. He was my conversation partner.
and square books. He's such a good dude. And he wants to see everybody win. That's what I love about his attitude. And I got one more here. William Boyle. Burns hot and fast and it is impossible to put down. Mic drop. That's a good one. They're all good. And I'll tell you, and that's only five of them. There's about 35 more floating out there, but I didn't want to do the whole thing. But you have got to be proud because when you can, when you can,
was talking to a friend of mine, Anthony Gadell the other day about this, when you can put yourself in the flow of this competition and A, face it head on, B, be undaunted, C, tenacious with your drive, and D, let go of the caring if it's gonna succeed or not and be okay with the fact that you created something on your own. I think that could be just about the perfect recipe for success. Yeah, and I think
I think probably the biggest factor, mean, meeting all these people, getting ACE's validation and Sean Cosby's, mean, great guys and to have them rooting for me, I feel very lucky there. Persistence has been such a big part of this. A lot of people say to me, I've queried like 10 agents, I've gotten no word back, almost as if they're gonna stop.
The Thriller Zone with David Temple (16:12.366)
I'm like, dude, you need to, you need to get out there because I didn't get an agent until the 85th person that I queried. And I know for a fact that Eli Craner was rejected by 200 agents. just a lot of rejection out there. I'm going to pull out an old sales axiom. Every no gets you closer to a yes. So if you, if you can wrap your arms around that, if you can just wrap a pinky around that and go, okay, I'm going to make a list.
It's only going to be so many nos and how many nos will it be? Who knows who cares, but just keep going unless you don't want to do it. Listen to my Southern accent coming out when I'm talking to you. Where the hell did that come from? Sorry. I'm going to turn that down. mean, think about it, Henry. Don't you agree that if you just, gotta, you gotta shut down the, that, that voice that says, it going to happen. It got to the point where I sort of began to thrive on rejection. You know, it's,
You almost wanted the nose just to say, you know what? I'm gonna work this much harder because I think I'm onto something. Yeah. And back to your VMI training, tenacity, determination. I'm going to go back to discipline because if you don't learn discipline at VMI, then somebody's doing something wrong. That's right. Yeah. And to write, know, VMI taught me. It didn't intend to teach me, but it taught me if I could write there, I could write anywhere.
under almost any circumstances. I want to drill down, speaking of drilling down, I want to drill down one little step there. What is, why is it, why was it that environment that made it that much more challenging? Everybody's sleep deprived. I mean, you're running on like week straight of, you know, four or five hours of sleep. It's just an intense environment. Everybody's sort of, you see people under pressure all the time. And I actually think that that's one thing
really impacted me as well. Seeing people under pressure, it teaches you something about people. You need to know about people to write fiction. And you got to be able to stand the heat in the kitchen or get out of the kitchen, Right. What is one thing that you hope your readers will take away from this book? That's a good question. I haven't been asked that before. I hope that the book will illustrate and convey the South.
The Thriller Zone with David Temple (18:35.566)
not as merely stereotypical South. I want to illustrate the complexity of the South and that includes race, that includes, I've seen in a lot of books, of course it's a common trope to have the corrupt sheriff, the wrongly accused person, and you sort of know 100 % who to root for, but.
I think in my novel, something that I really strove to do is convey, portray these characters as real people, believable people that even if you're not from the South, you could probably say, yeah, that's authentic. That is so good and such a mission accomplished for you because it's so funny. was reading when I first started the book, there was a couple of little Southern classic Southern comments made and I'm like,
Is this going to be another and no offense here, is this going to be another repeat of the same Southern bullshit that comes around that, you know, that's that focuses on redneck or non educated or, you know, living in a trailer, et cetera. And sure, there's that. But what I liked about this is it didn't focus on that for one thing. And the other thing is just like any other part of the country.
Everybody, everybody's got their thing. Not smart people who don't make good decisions. last time I checked live everywhere. So sometimes when you see somebody who's making bad decisions and doing something stupid and maybe they don't have a great education, but they happen to have a real heavy draw, doesn't make them an idiot. It just makes them not making good decisions. Absolutely. and see, see it's a, it's a tricky balance because
There are the people in the trailer parks. There are the poor rednecks. There are the poor African -American communities. mean, that's very real. But that, think sometimes people use that as a crutch. There you go. Just kind of say like, all right, I'm writing about a trailer park. Well, what's also interesting in the protagonist, Will Seems, is, you know, he's from a good family. It's sort of a family that's in shambles at this point dealing
The Thriller Zone with David Temple (20:53.966)
He's sort of got every reason to stay away from that stuff and yet he's sort of taking it upon himself to engage in all walks of life in the...
Yeah, and again, I'm gonna say the same phrase mission accomplished. You did some really nice things I do want to close as I always do with best writing advice and I know it's your debut thriller I mean come on It's just number one But I know for a fact that you're working on number two And if I bet you dollars to doughnuts that you got an idea for number three tucked way back here That is already in process. What kind of writing advice has served you well so far very easy for me
Richard Ford a few years ago, just briefly, he wouldn't remember me. I asked him, what advice would you give somebody who's working on a first book? And he said, don't do it. All right, smart ass. What would you say to somebody who is determined
He thought about it for a second and I appreciated the pause, you know, he really thought about this and he said write about what's most important to you because that will sustain you. The writing process is very difficult. I don't know a person who thinks it's easy. You can't count on being inspired.
You have to work for inspiration. And I think when you're writing about what you really care about, as broad as that may be, as narrow as that may be, I think it just helps you come back and put yourself in the ring every day.
The Thriller Zone with David Temple (22:25.122)
That's so good. You know, you hear a lot of people talking about writing to market and you kind of referenced that earlier. If you write something that you think is going to sell, when you start on it, let's say it takes you a year, year and a half, you know that if you're thinking this is going to be good in market now, by the time you actually get there and get it through editorial and published and out there on the shelves, that tide may have already shifted. Yeah. And I've, remember when I was querying agents, I actually started
looking into agents and what they were saying, any advice that they might be giving. And Kirby Kim, who represents Jim McLaughlin, James A. McLaughlin, author of Bear Skin, he was one of the people who was interested in my book but ultimately didn't take it. Anyway, I heard an interview with him. He was asked pretty much the same question, should you chase trends? And he said
He said exactly what you said. You never know. You can't predict where those trends are going to be. It's going to take you two, three years to get this book out there. You used an interesting word, that which will sustain you because if you're going to, you're going to be married to that thing. You guys are going to be sleeping in the same bed, so to speak for a long time. And man, if you're not enjoying it. Yeah, it's a very, very important, I think, to give yourself that little edge. mean, you're wasting your time.
if you're not following what you really want to write. It takes too long to write a book. Yeah. It takes too long to write an email. Yeah. mean, life's too short. You got to get in there and get dirty, you know? Life is short. Get in there and get dirty. There's the hashtag. Gonna be a t -shirt. Well, folks, once again, if you want to learn more, go to HenryWise .com. The book is Holy City. If you like Southern Noir and the sense of home and good and bad people trying to make their way through a tough world,
I think you'd enjoy it. Henry, I really appreciate you carving out the time and it's nice going down memory lane on, you know, old home week. Well, man, this was a blast. I could talk to you for a lot longer. Well, thank you for the time. Absolutely. And then a delight hanging out with you, Henry. And we will see you again soon. See you, David. This has been great. Thank you so much.