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The Unboxing Judaism Podcast is a lively dialogue and discussion between Rabbi Yaakov Nagel and Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe that helps unbox and demystify the most fundamental ideas in Judaism that are commonly misunderstood.
This Podcast Series is Generously Underwritten by Rabbi Yaakov & Dr. Sara Nagel
00:01 - Intro (Announcement)
You're listening to Rabbi Yaakov Nagel and Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe from TORCH, the Torah Outreach Resource Center of Houston. This is the Unboxing Judaism podcast.
00:13 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Co-host)
Welcome back everybody to Unboxing Judaism. It's so wonderful to be here with Rabbi Nagel to do another episode.
00:19 - Rabbi Yaakov Nagel (Co-host)
Yes, it's been too long since last time and I'm very excited.
00:23 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Co-host)
It's been too long since last time and I'm very excited. Yeah, Baruch Hashem. Okay, so there's a lot to talk about. Most recently, there's been a lot of noise in Israel about what happened to the Iranian president, which is, I feel, like just a little gift from the Almighty, a little gift from Hashem. Where Hashem is showing us, he's in charge, he's around.
00:45
I wanted to talk a little bit about some of the reactions that have been going on in the world. As we know, there are some nations that have sent their condolences. There's some in the UN who have done a moment of silence and have also wished their condolences to the Iranian people and to the family of the Iranian president, also known as the butcher of Tehran, and wanted to know what well they wanted to have this discussion on what is the Jewish perspective on when evil people leave this world. When Hitler executed himself or died of whatever way he did, we only know what legends tell us. But is that something that we celebrate? Or is that something that we recognize as a creation of the Almighty? That it's something that should be with caution and with dignity, that we should be careful how we celebrate such things? So what are your thoughts, rabbi?
02:00 - Rabbi Yaakov Nagel (Co-host)
Okay, so first of all talk about timely. Okay, so first of all talk about timely. I just want to share with you today's daf in Dafyomi. It happens to touch on this subject a bit. It talks about how Reb Yudah Nassi underwent severe suffering. It describes he had kidney stones. It was very, very painful His cries went out and people could hear it miles away and some tooth ailment that was killing him, a painful toothache for years.
02:33
And the question is what caused it? And what happened was that there was a little goat that was about to be slaughtered and the goat ran away, was afraid and came and hid under the cloak of Rabbi Danasi. And Rabbi Danasi told the goat said you know, go, that's what you were created for. You're meant to be slaughtered and to be eaten as food, and that's it. And God's reaction was not so happy. And God said you know, you don't have mercy on my creations. Okay, you're going to suffer. And he did for years and years and years, until many years later there was some weasels, baby weasels in the house that his maid wanted to clean out of the house and he said leave them be. Pasuk says God has mercy on all of his creations. So on the one hand, it sounds like all of his creations doesn't say except for it's all his creations that God has mercy on them. So there's something to be said about that perspective. On the other hand, we have a pasuk that says Be'ibud Rishayim Rina. You might have seen this on posted.
03:53 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Co-host)
Be'ibud Rishayim Rina, yeah.
03:55 - Rabbi Yaakov Nagel (Co-host)
Be'ibud Rishayim Rina. When a Rasha leaves this world, there's joy. Maybe it's a muted joy, it's not clear. There's different gila, disa, rina. There's different nuances to the different words for joy, but rina is definitely a joy and because we're better off.
04:17
Another thing we know that by the destruction of the Egyptians at sea, we were supposed to sing. We did sing Shira, and it's fascinating that there's a bit of a distinction. We find how Kalli, israel did, were supposed to and they did sing Shira, but the angels wanted to sing Shira and God said my creations are drowning at sea and you're singing. That's not appropriate. So what's the answer? What's the real perspective? And the answer is that we need to always see the Yad Hashem in things.
05:00
And if there's someone who has been tormenting us and someone who's causing us suffering and God destroys them, that's something that we need to show our harakar satov and appreciation and be happy that God recognized our plight and he took care of things that needed to be taken care of for us, and that's something that we need to rejoice in for us.
05:26
And that's something that we need to rejoice in. On the other hand, when it's something that's not personal, it's just, you know, an animal or something that's out there, then there's appropriate. The appropriate reaction is to generally have mercy. So, and that's the perspective of the angels the angels were, above all, the experiences that we are having here on this earth. So, therefore, from their perspective, when any creation needs to die, it's a sad, it's not something to be joyful about, but for our perspective, when we're the ones who are suffering on that hand, then God caused their death to help us. That's something that we need to show our full appreciation with joy and be happy that Hashem saved us. So that's the, I think, is the nuance of a difference, which is very helpful in perspective.
06:11 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Co-host)
So we know that the Gemara also says that anyone who's merciful to the cruel will end up being cruel to the merciful Right. That's what the Gemara says. So I mean, here's someone who, again, I don't know, but according to the reports that are out there, has killed thousands and thousands of people. He is the mastermind and the main financier of everything that happened in October 7th on Simchas Torah and our attack of our homeland and the attack of our people and everything that. He's the biggest funders to Hamas and to Hezbollah and all of the enemies of the Jewish people. And here the guy dies in a Freak accident yeah, in a helicopter accident. And so there's been this a lot of discussion out there.
07:06
I've been listening to all of these different pundits talking about whether or not we should celebrate, we shouldn't celebrate, whether we should feel bad or we shouldn't feel bad. So it's definitely clear that we have to be very, very cautious because, again, it's a creation of Hashem. But does that mean that even someone who's so wicked and so evil, we shouldn't celebrate their demise? You know, it's very hard, and what do you do when someone is your actual enemy that you kill. So, for example, if the Mossad, which allegedly many times has taken out enemies of Israel and enemies of the Jewish people. Should they not do so because it's a creation of Hashem? I mean, is this different? Because now it's Hashem performing it on his own, without you know his people doing it. I mean, the question is like what's the real measure of our reaction?
08:05 - Rabbi Yaakov Nagel (Co-host)
Okay, so I just want to. So the question is is there a distinction between what we do ourselves and what God does?
08:12 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Co-host)
act of God and or maybe we shouldn't, if you say that you know that you have to be careful of Hashem's creations, that even the Jewish people at the splitting of the sea, right, there's a. I remember there's a point where the Jewish people at the splitting of the sea right, I remember there's a point where the Jewish people had to stop celebrating because, at the end of the day, sus v'roich v'roma v'ayom right, hashem made all of the chariots and all of the riders. They all drowned, they all. So there was a little bit of an element of like less joy because it's Hashem's creations.
08:46
But these are evil, wicked people. These are wicked people. These are people who enslaved us for 210 years. These are people who beat us, whipped us and tried to kill our babies and did to many of them. We're supposed to be merciful to them and then, on the other hand, you have that only for a few generations, the Egyptians can't join the Jewish people, but then they can if they want to convert. You don't push them away. Why? Because they hosted us. Yeah, they hosted us. We have our Chorosotope. We have you know, it's such a blend of emotions, a blend of emotions, a blend of sensitivity that I think we need, all of us need guidance into what's the proper measure and how do we exactly define the right amount of mercy, the right amount of sympathy, the right amount of cruelty that is required to those who are the enemies of the Jewish people.
09:46 - Rabbi Yaakov Nagel (Co-host)
So, first of all, I want to focus on the quote that you started off with, which is kol ha-merachem alachzorim sofer li'yizachzor ala rachmanim and that's really a quote from Shaul Ha-Malch, referring to Shaul Ha-Malch, shaul, the king, who was waging war against Amalek, and he had mercy on the. They had wonderful sheep and the king. He felt bad to just kill the king outright, so he captured him. It was a misplaced mercy. It was a misplaced mercy Because if you have mercy on somebody who's cruel, then what that means is you let the cruelty live on. So, in the end, in the grand scheme of things, what you did is a cruel thing, because what happened? Because Agag, the king of Amalek, was left alive, haman was able to exist and Haman tried eradicating us right? What was that? What's the name of Sanwar? He was one of the freed hostages that we freed and he was the one who was the mastermind over here.
10:59
So when you feel bad about these people, then that's gonna come back to bite you because they do not feel bad. You got to fight fire with fire, in a sense, and that really refers to the other thing that I think is very relevant, which is when the law requires that someone who's trying to kill you, you need to kill him first. You need to recognize that, in the grand scheme of things, yes, it's true, it affects you and you're not going to be the same and you're going to need to work that. In the grand scheme of things, yes, it's true, it affects you and you're not going to be the same and you're going to need to work on yourself, maybe, but you can't have a waffly attitude towards it. The law dictates that this is what I need to do and you have to do it without any qualms and go forward with it.
11:48
And that's hashken bar ge'o, because they're face the facts. They're face the facts. They're out for blood, nothing less than that. And when you recognize that, so then it's a misplaced mercy if you have anything, any mercy over here and, in the grand scheme of things, it's more merciful when you get rid of such people and therefore I don't think there's a difference between what God does and what we do. If the Mossad has to get rid of somebody who they deem is a threat, that's the job.
12:26 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Co-host)
That's what we need to do. So it's interesting and I want to give a disclaimer on what I'm about to say. So, god forbid, nobody, nobody, should think that I'm making an equivalence here. Heaven forbid. But I remember my grandfather talking after Yitzhak Rabin was murdered. He was assassinated, and Yitzhak Rabin was not only a Jew, he was the prime minister of Israel. He was assassinated allegedly. I mean, there's many stories and many things of who who knows the truth. Nobody really knows. Yeah, we don't know exactly that allegedly.
12:53 - Rabbi Yaakov Nagel (Co-host)
I mean there's many stories and many things of who who knows the truth.
12:54 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Co-host)
We know nobody really. Yeah, we don't know exactly how, but either way, my grandfather spoke about because there were some people who were saying, you know, there were some things that he did that perhaps were questionable. There were some things that he did that were perhaps not good for the jewish people and some people were, in a way, maybe with a lack of sensitivity, celebrating that, oh, this guy who gave away our land, who gave the palestinians arms, who gave them I remember the picture of how many uh jeeps they gave the palestinians when they, when they signed the oslo accords, uh, back in 93 it was it was a terrifying image of giving palestin Palestinians who were later going to use those guns, those ammunition, against us. And many people predicted it in advance and they felt that by him being taken out. However, he was taken out was a good thing and some people wanted to celebrate.
13:48
My grandfather said at the time he said a story, an unbelievable story. He said that when he arrived at the mere yeshiva to learn by rabbi rucham. So rabbi rucham had an unbelievable. I'll just tell you that the first he got there by, I think on a tuesday or wednesday, and he met rabbi rucham who was the head of the yeshiva, an unbelievable torah sage, a torah giant, and he met him, you know, every day. He saw him in the yeshiva and he saw friday night when shabbos came in he saw somebody sitting in rabbi roham's seat. My grandfather wasn't delusional, he wasn't crazy. He saw somebody else sitting in a burham seat. So he says to the other students he says maybe we should tell that person that they should move out of rabbi roham's seat.
14:34
They said no, that is Rebbe Rocham. He looked like a different person. On Friday night Shabbos came in. He had a glow, he looked like a completely different human being. Wow, and my grandfather got used to seeing that. One Shabbos they saw their Abiruchim looked worse than he did during the week, looked like a dead person. So they went over to him and they asked what's going on? You usually look with such a brilliance on Shabbos, with such a radiance, and now this Shabbos you don't look yourself.
15:09
So he said I just heard that before Shabbos there was a terrible Jew who passed away in Germany. He was a Jew who gave many other Jews to the authorities. He reported many other Jews. He was what we consider a moiser, a wicked person. So they said what's the problem? He's a wicked person. He's a wicked Jew. He should be very happy that he died. He said yep, you don't understand.
15:38
As Jews, we're all brothers. My brother is now standing in front of the heavenly courts. And what is he going to say in front of the heavenly courts? He says I don't know what words he's going to use to defend his evil actions in front of the holy throne of Hashem. Defend his evil actions in front of the holy throne of Hashem, he says. And that's why he said, out of his sense of, I guess, brotherhood, brotherhood. He felt like what is he going to answer for himself? He's not going to have what to say. He was sick to his stomach. He was just thinking about it, just thinking about it.
16:11
And that's the level of achrayis, a level of responsibility that we must feel for one another, and that's particularly relating to our fellow Jew. A fellow Jew. That's our responsibility. It doesn't matter how far Gani is Doesn't matter, and it's an amazing thing, it's. You know, the only holiday yesterday was Pesach Sheini. The only Jewish holiday that has a second chance is Pesach. Why? Because Pesach is about Jewish identity. Jewish identity, you're never too far. You always can come back. You can always. You know, there are other holidays that simplify different things.
16:45
But it's never too late. Pesach is a holiday. You get a redo. If you weren't connected well enough to have that closeness on Pesach, you have another chance 30 days later which was yesterday Pesach you have another chance 30 days later, which was yesterday, pesach Sheini. You can reconnect in your association with the Almighty and your connection with the Jewish people. So here we have again.
17:06
When it comes regarding Jewish people, for sure we have to have a sense of brotherly love and feel the pain that goes beyond their behavior. That's what it is Right. But when you have someone who's an actual Russia, someone who's an actual evil person, a wicked person, who executed Jews not only in Tehran, not only all around Iran, but in other places, through all of their terror proxies, through all of the things that they fund, whether it be from Yemen, whether it be from Hamas or hisbala or all the other, the syrians or the I the iraqi uh, folks right and then shooting 350 rockets at the jewish people, ballistic missiles and suicide drones, I mean it's unbelievable, bar Hashem, with the unbelievable miracle that Hashem protected us. But this person is a wicked person. So I don't think if I can summarize what you're saying, rabbi Nagel that I don't think that we should be dancing on the rooftops. We should definitely give praise to Hashem for removing an evil person from our midst. We pray for this every day in our amida, three times a day.
18:18
Well, I'm, I'll sheen him right for all of those who, all of the wicked people, the whole arisha, correct right. We want them to all be removed from this world, and thank we, thank hashem that he has done so for us, but it has to be a tempered, a very cautious, I think, a cautious celebration. I think, though, that there's another problem, and that is that our world has lost its moral compass, and when you see people, united Nations, what's United Nations supposed to be? It's supposed to stand up for justice. It's supposed to stand up for those who are being attacked. It was formed after World War II to be a front defense for nations that are being wrongly attacked, to protect those indigenous people, those who are, you know, weaker people. One second, the Jewish people are being attacked, and then they're making a moment of silence for the person who, who originated this whole it?
19:18
the whole thing boggles the mind. It's unbelievable how the world and I think this is a big problem we're dealing in a generation where people don't know right and wrong it's a it's it's like almost a separate discussion.
19:32 - Rabbi Yaakov Nagel (Co-host)
I think that's a bigger topic even to. Actually, we need to recognize that until you can recognize evil and until you can distinguish between good and evil, we're in real bad shape.
19:47 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Co-host)
It's such an important principle, I think, that Right, whole, I would say there's an entire discussion that needs to happen, a theological discussion of whether or not there is an evil person in the world. Right, we know that we can get into this discussion. What the Christians believe, what the Jews believe, what the atheists which is the majority of the countries that are doing all of this nonsense and having the moment of silence for the president of Iran it's usually coming from the atheists, it's people who are nonbelievers and their entire compass is out of whack, so they don't know what right is, they don't know what wrong is, they don't know what evil is, they don't know what righteous is. And that's really tragic and I think very, very terrifying that these are people who have power to influence and power to hold a prime minister in contempt. Not a contempt, but an arrest.
20:49
They set out a warrant for the arrest of the prime minister of Israel, who's doing what? Who's doing what? Who's defending his people? Who's leading the most humane military operation in the history of the world, who sends out leaflets saying we're about to attack your neighborhood? Clear the way. It's the most unbelievable thing, it's the worst thing to do for military strategy, right? And yet we do that because we are rahmanim ni rahmanim, because we are, you know, merciful, the children of merciful. And it's really sad, it's really a tragic shame what's going on on campuses where there's all this misinformation. I know this is not exactly the topic, but I think it all comes in with people being misinformed, with people having a wrong understanding of what's right and what is wrong.
21:46 - Rabbi Yaakov Nagel (Co-host)
I just want to point out that I think that what it really comes down to for many of these people that seem to be completely misguided, they don't have. You know, you're assuming they have a skewed moral compass. I don't think that's what it is. I think it's a cynicism and what's in it. For me, that's about it and therefore all I care about is me and me, and me and me. That's all, and that's really what it comes from. And if it's good for me to, so to speak, be pro-Arab because of the oil that I get or whatever it is that's benefiting me, then I'm going to say that because it's good for me. You understand, it's not a matter of and they say it in such a way and couch in such a beautiful form as if they are, you know, so loving and so caring and so kind, when all it is is pure selfishness. And I think that's a large part if you look into what's motivating. You know, I overheard one of the pundits saying it's like you know talking about I don't want to get into politics. You know talking about I don't want to get into politics.
22:55
The two-state solution is, you know, michigan and Minnesota, where there's a large Arab population, that he wants to win those states. You know, let's not get into too many details, but the point being is that that's thinking about number one, which is me only, and that's the big. That's really what it, you know. That's the first step. In's really what it, you know, that's the first step in having a moral compass altogether, is recognizing that there's a morality that's not selfish, it's God-given. It's a big difference and I think that's the answer to your question in terms of it's not that they are misguided, I think it's. They're cynical, they're just caring about only thing, only one thing what's good for me is good for me, and I don't care about the rest of the world, I don't care what's going to be, and if it's good to me to denounce the Jews, then it's good for me, period. There's uh, there's a famous, a famous uh saying that I I heard from my rabbi uh, a blessed memory, barry leisenstein.
24:06 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Co-host)
He would always say at the end of right after the shema, every morning, we say the yatsiv, we say 15 different praises of Hashem, the first is being emes, truthful, and the last one being we say v'toiv, good, v'yofeh and beautiful. So he says I don't understand. Emes and yofeh are on two polar opposites. What's truthful and what's beautiful is on two polar opposites, so they should be one right next to the other. See, he says no, he says usually what's true is not so pretty and what's pretty is not so true.
24:46
You know, we've all seen in the past several decades different presidents, different personalities that have had some have spoken really really well but didn't say truthful word, others who said truthful words but everyone says oh, it's not nice, mean tweets, et cetera, et cetera. So it really is. We have to really monitor what is really true. And what are we just saying? Because it's pretty, because it's nice, because people are going to like it on social media, but it's not really true. And what are we just saying? Because it's pretty, because it's nice, because people are going to like it on social media, but it's not really true.
25:21
You know people, I hate to say this and I hate to bring the Torah perspective that we're learning into such a vain conversation, but you know, instagram and all of these things All about likes, it's all right. So people I've seen people you know trying to position the camera in a certain way that they look better than you know so it looks better for the camera than it did and taking a hundred of them and then looking, scrutinizing each picture to make sure that it gives the perfect image that they want. But is that really the truthful image? Every person needs to ask that question and it's really the truthful image.
25:58 - Rabbi Yaakov Nagel (Co-host)
Every person needs to ask that question. It's a very important. You know, Chazal tell us in the Gemara that the time of right before the Mashiach, the face of the generation is like the face of a dog. What does that even mean? So one of the explanations is that a dog always runs ahead of its master, but it keeps looking back to make sure it's going the right way. So, like he's not leading, he's really following. He's just running ahead, but following, he says, the leaders of the generation right before the Messiah. They're poll readers. They will say oh, wait a second. Is this a popular view? Let me check and I'm going through it.
26:36 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Co-host)
They're being controlled by their masses, exactly, exactly.
26:39 - Rabbi Yaakov Nagel (Co-host)
They're all poll seekers. They only want to know, that's all they care about. Again, it's a selfishness when you think about it, because they only want what's you know like. Well, I'm going to win, I want to be in power, but what do you mean? They're not being empowered. They want is to have as many likes as possible. And you know what. Sometimes you have to stand for something.
27:01 - Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe (Co-host)
And I think that's really the important lesson here. Yeah, hopefully Hashem should bless us all, that we should be guided by the truth. We always ask for truth. The Torah is all about truth. Its name is Emes, hashem's name is Emes. So, with God's assistance, we will merit to be people who are truthful, who are following the truth, seeking the truth and, hopefully, only caring about the truth as well. Amen, pleasure.
27:29 - Intro (Announcement)
Thank you. Thank you for listening to the Unboxing Judaism podcast. We want your questions. If you'd like your question featured in a future episode, please email us at unboxing@torchweb.org. We look forward to hearing from you.