BONUS: Loneliness and the Power of Presence with Jason Gaboury

Enjoy a previously unheard moment from Jon's recent conversation with Jason Gaboury about embracing loneliness and his book Wait With Me: Meeting God in Loneliness.

See you in 2024 with new episodes of After IV!

RELATED EPISODE
E95: Embracing Your Loneliness: A Recipe for Disaster or Deeper Compassion? (Apple, Spotify)

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Creators & Guests

Host

Jon Steele

Jon Steele, a 2011 InterVarsity alumnus from Minnesota State Mankato, lives in Mankato, MN with his wife Kaitlynn and their two daughters. He’s been on staff with InterVarsity since 2012 and has been hosting After IV since its debut in 2020. He is also the producer and primary editor for the podcast. Jon enjoys gaming, reading, and leading worship at his church.

Guest

Jason Gaboury

Jason Gaboury serves as Director of Alumni Relations with InterVarsity Christian Fellowship and is a member of the Anglican Order of Preachers, a religious community committed to prayer, community, study, and preaching.

What is After IV?

Hey, InterVarsity alumni! This is After IV, your podcast for navigating life after graduation. This is both an exciting and potentially tricky transition you’re making and you might feel a little unsure about the coming weeks and months. We’re here to provide you with expert advice, practical skills, and plenty of encouragement as you learn how to keep saying "Yes!" to Jesus in your new context. This is After IV, and this podcast is for you, alumni.

After IV
BONUS: Loneliness and the Power of Presence

Podcast Intro – (Upbeat acoustic guitar music)

Jon Steele  0:09  
Hey everyone. I'm Jon Steele. And this is After IV: a podcast for InterVarsity alumni. Life after college is hard. And even a great experience with your InterVarsity chapter doesn't shield you from the challenges of transition. As we hear stories from real alumni learning how to make it in their post-InterVarsity reality, my hope is that this podcast will offer some encouragement, a few laughs and even some hope for the future. This is After IV, and these are your stories.

Interview

I know people have talked about this before, but and we're going to talk about it anyways. But it seems that so many of these things, these devices that we have, and the and the applications that we have on them, that that we're more connected than ever, because I mean, you and I, Jason, we are in different time zones, looking each other somewhat in the eye. And having this conversation together, we are connected across states. And everybody has access to this kind of stuff, almost everybody, either the vast majority in one way or another in one application or another. Why is it that loneliness? Still is such a growing epidemic when we have more opportunities than ever to be able to connect with each other?

Jason Gaboury  1:21  
Yeah, what a great question. I don't think there's, you know, there's not consensus in the, in the literature, but but here's some things that stand out. One is that it is harder for us who for younger people, in particular, but harder for all of us now to be present to those who are close to us. Because we can be more present to those who are further away from us.

Jon Steele  1:50  
That's interesting.

Jason Gaboury  1:51  
So if I'm talking to, if I'm talking to you here, you're I'm in New York City, you're in Minnesota, we're we're far away from each other, I'm being present to you on this phone, or on this screen, but I'm not being present to Sofia, who is in the next room, I'm not being present to my neighbor, who is just next door, I'm not being present to if if my children were here, I wouldn't be able to be present to them. And, and so one of the downstream consequences of having the ability to talk to anybody anywhere at any time, is it makes us less attentive, to talk to the people who are right in front of us, and be really, really present to the people who write in front of us. And and then there's another side of that, which is, which is that those those abilities, those form habits. So, you know, I, I'm a Gen X er, please don't judge me. And it doesn't occur to me. I'll scandalize your audience, but it doesn't occur to me to send a text to someone before I call them. That wasn't how I was formed. Yeah, now, it would scandalize my daughter to, to call someone without texting them. Because she's been formed in a different place. But think for a minute about what that means it means that, for that our habits have moved from I'm going to pick up and start relating with people that any anywhere at any time to relating is something I do within a scheduled box and controlled environment. And, and, and we don't see we're not we're not as attentive to all of the other cues and all of the other things that are going on. So so, you know, we attention is a fixed, it's a fixed resource, we can't get more of it. And so the more we are drawn away towards people who are far away from us, through digital media through our great communications technology, the less attention we have for the people immediately around us. And, and so that's it makes it harder.

Jon Steele  4:38  
Yes. And it's interesting, because I think about like, you know, I can have a very real meaningful conversation about the challenging parts of my day. If I call up my dad who's in Indiana, and say, like, this is what's going on. Do you have any advice for me and he can give me great input about that stuff. But it's different when I sit down across the table from my wife Kay Caitlyn, who lives in the same universe that I do that rub shoulders with the people that are all like that she has a relationship with some of these people that are that I'm having trouble interacting with that. Maybe she was involved in whatever it is that I need advice about, like somebody that actually sees you, hears you and knows the context. And and can walk through that with you like, I can get great advice from my dad, but my wife is here, and she knows, she knows the space. And so you don't have to do the extra work of trying to bring them into the situation. They can just more immediately connect with you and understand what you're experiencing. I don't expect you to answer this question. But just the thought experiment of it, it makes me wonder where is where is the sliding scale as far as the benefit of having somebody in the room with you, depending on how well you know them compared to like, across the screen, if I'm having a stressful such a stressful experience, but I've got you on the screen who I know super well, at what point is it actually better to have somebody in the room with me that I don't know as well. But we're in the same space together. Like there's some sort of camaraderie of just being in a difficult situation together. And just thinking about people that are like, Okay, you're in a new town you're with, you could turn to someone you kind of know who's in your space. Or you could jump on Zoom and have a phone call with your parent or your friend from back home. Like, at what point does that sliding scale change?

Jason Gaboury  6:32  
Yes, that's a great cover is such a great question. So. So here's what here's what we do know, okay, what we what we do know is if your goal is to if the person that you are potentially interacting with is not increasing your anxiety, okay? Yes, if you feel threatened by the person who's who you're in the same room with, if you don't feel safe with that person, if it's if the person close is increasing your anxiety, then then it's it, that's a problem, you probably moving closer to them is not going to bring your elbows. If the person in the room is neutral, or positive, it's almost always better, wow, to interact in person than it is to interact with Phil, which doesn't mean those deepening relationships where you just have profound trust. And you there's a sense in which I'm going to really process something with you. Those those kinds of relationships are, are great and helpful. And you can do that over communication technology. But if but if it's just a matter of like, I need to bring my overall stress level down. And I want a strategy that's going to help me bring my overall stress levels down, you're almost always better talking to a real life human. Just because the physiological benefits of being connected to a real life, other human being that you're responding to, in person.

Jon Steele  8:10  
If you could either distill what we've talked about into one final point, or if there's something we just haven't said yet. What advice would you give? What parting advice would you give to alumni who are experiencing loneliness in their first year of life after graduation? 

Jason Gaboury  8:29  
Yeah, great question. Best thing you can do is make a list or pay attention to if you're not a list maker, pay attention to the people who are in the spaces where you live, where you work, and where you play. And take meaningful steps to to engage with the people right in front of you. And not saying don't call your best friend from school, not saying don't keep your relationships that are at a distance. But if you did one thing, I would say, take meaningful social risks and steps to get to know and connect with and serve the people right around you. And if you do that consistently, you will, over time develop at least a group of people that you can go to when your stress hormones and your cortisol is going off the roof that you can sit with who can who can help you calm down, but I suspect it'll be more than that.

Podcast Outro – (Upbeat acoustic guitar music)

Hey, thanks so much for joining us today, Alumni. If there was anything that you learned, really enjoyed, or that encouraged you from today's episode, would you send us a DM or tag us in a story? We'd love to hear about it. You can find us @afterivpod on Instagram and Facebook. And if you haven't already, take just a second to unlock your phone and subscribe to the podcast. If your platform lets you, leave us a rating and a review. And if you like what we're doing here, share us with your InterVarsity or other post-graduation friends. Thanks again for listening. And I will see you in the after, Alumni.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai