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A podcast focusing on the perspectives, lives, and stories of Kansans to provide greater insight into the state we all call home.
AAK_Ep55
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Pale Blue Dot Pin
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[00:00:00]
Sydney Collins: So for the past couple of days, you have been wearing this pin. I know you're a big pin fan. You're a pin fan.
Gus Applequist: I like pins.
Sydney Collins: You do like pins?
Gus Applequist: Both. Both~ pins. ~
Sydney Collins: ~You do like pins? ~
Gus Applequist: ~Both. Both ~pins.
Sydney Collins: And a pin on that shirt is a rather interesting choice.
Gus Applequist: Yeah. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Yeah. Okay.
Sydney Collins: You don't have to apologize. I should wanna know what a random blue pin on a shirt that it doesn't match.
Gus Applequist: Okay, so this is my pale blue dot. Your pale blue dot. My pale blue dot. This is a reference to Carl Sagan. Carl Sagan. Wrote a really beautiful and, and spoke about it in speeches and stuff. He was involved with a space mission called Voyager, where we sent two probes out into deep space to learn about the outer solar system.
And at one point, the Voyager probe turned around to look at Earth, and when it did, it took a picture. And that picture shows Earth as a tiny blue dot suspended in a shaft of light. And it, he talked about it as though it as like a powerful reminder of. Of how small we really are and that everyone who's ever [00:01:00] lived or breathed all life that we know of only exists on that pale blue dot.
So the reason I'm wearing it is as we're recording this, we have four astronauts on their way to the moon.
And so I'm, I'm, Recognizing them and, and their you know, hopefully not their sacrifice, but their, their bravery in what they're doing. And, and yeah, so that's why I am going around wearing a pale blue dot, despite wearing a green shirt.
So my fashion loving wife probably hates me for it. That's okay. It's
Sydney Collins: all good.
Show Intro Guest Tease
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Gus Applequist: Welcome to Ask a Kansan, a podcast where we're amplifying, connecting and uncovering stories across Kansas. Today we got a little bit of everything. We started with a [00:02:00] little bit of space. We're gonna talk about art next and then stay tuned later and we will, we'll have a segment that has something to do with Outlaws in the Old West.
Sydney Collins: Oh goodness. It's the first time hearing it. Yeah. So it's gonna be
Gus Applequist: great. It will be great. But yeah, tell us a little bit about our guest today.
Sydney Collins: So today we have Sarah VanLanduyt on. She is, well, she wears a lot of hats mainly with the Arts Commission in Johnson County. She's a Kansas Arts Commissioner and then she's also with, uh, the
Gus Applequist: Kansas Arts Network.
Sydney Collins: The Kansas Arts Network.
Gus Applequist: Yeah.
Sydney Collins: So she wears a lot of hats. I'm gonna let her introduce herself and kind of all the different avenues she has. It was a really good reminder, like art is important. Art is everywhere. It's not just, you know, your kid's pretty drawing that they bring home from school.
It's. I dunno, we'll get into it. So without any further ado, here's our conversation with Sarah.
Small Talk Warmers
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Sydney Collins: Hello. Welcome, welcome, welcome.
Gus Applequist: Yeah.
Sydney Collins: Come hang out in the hot
Sarah VanLanduyt: seat. [00:03:00]
Gus Applequist: They're nice and cool.
Sydney Collins: They're nice and and cool. Yeah.
Sarah VanLanduyt: I, we, we have a, um, kind of a new, used a new car to us and it has like seat warmers and like a steering wheel.
Sydney Collins: It's life changing.
Sarah VanLanduyt: That it's living the life.
Sydney Collins: The heated steering wheel is a, is a game changer.
I will
Sarah VanLanduyt: never go back. I mean,
Sydney Collins: yeah. Um, hold that because we just got a car, I guess it was a couple years ago, but it came with the heated steering wheel. I'm like, oh,
AAK_Ep55_wide: game
Sydney Collins: changer. Like I'm trying game changer. Heated seats, but heated steering wheel's. A whole nother game. Game changer.
Meet Sarah Hats
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Sydney Collins: Well, for our audience, can you introduce yourself for us?~ ~
Sarah VanLanduyt: ~Sure. Um, ~my name is Sarah VanLanduyt and I. I will tell you all the hats. Okay. Because I, I think I'm here for,
Sydney Collins: oh, you have a lot of hats.
Sarah VanLanduyt: I think I'm here for one hat, but maybe Oh, a couple of hats we talk about. Okay. Uh, so my, uh, my day job is the executive director for the Arts Council of Johnson County. I am also a commissioner for the Kansas Arts Commission, and I am the board chair for the, Kansas Arts Network, which is a nonprofit statewide arts advocacy organization.
Wow. [00:04:00] There are other hats, but those are the big ones. Those are the big ones.
Kansas Roots Journey
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Sydney Collins: So we'll touch on a little bit of all of them, but can you give us kinda your Kansas background?
Sarah VanLanduyt: I am a native Kansan. I grew up here, um, I grew up in Topeka, lived there all through high school. And I went to Baker for my undergrad, so Baldwin City, Kansas.
And then from there, I went to Illinois for grad school at Eastern Illinois University in Charleston, Illinois. From there, I went to Park City, Utah for an internship as part of my grad program. From there, I got my first grownup paid job and I moved to Wisconsin and I worked for, um, a county historical society where I met my husband in that town and my stepdaughter convinced them.
To move south back to Kansas. 'cause it's warmer here. A
Sydney Collins: little less snow.
Sarah VanLanduyt: Uh, yeah, there, um, my, my stepdaughter at the time, she was, five or six and I remember there was like a full on blizzard where you could not see one foot in front of you. Oh my gosh. And they didn't cancel school. And I was like, what is this nonsense?[00:05:00]
No, we're gonna move back south, so convince them to move with me back to Kansas. We moved to Topeka where I worked for the Kansas Arts Commission, as a program officer for about a year, and then moved out to Johnson County Wow. To where we've been ever since.
Sydney Collins: Amazing.
Sarah VanLanduyt: So, yeah,
Sydney Collins: you got a little of everything.
I've
Sarah VanLanduyt: been all over.
Gus Applequist: Mm-hmm.
Why Arts Path
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Sydney Collins: Why art? Because you're, you're very engrossed in, into the arts, so w Yeah. Is that something you grew up with 'cause you just loved or what's kind of your art background?
Sarah VanLanduyt: I would say I don't, I don't, I don't really have an art background.
Sydney Collins: That's fine.
Sarah VanLanduyt: Can I say that out loud?
My, actually, my undergrad and my graduate degree is in history.
Sydney Collins: Oh, okay.
Sarah VanLanduyt: Um, so I took drawing classes. I was in marching band all through high school and, and undergrad, um, all through college. In marching band.
Gus Applequist: Yeah. You
Sarah VanLanduyt: instantly used,
Sydney Collins: you've in
Sarah VanLanduyt: Me too. I was one of what, like a thousand flute players, so, yeah.
Oh, there you go. Oh, nice. Yeah. Face player.
Gus Applequist: Yeah.
Sarah VanLanduyt: Nice [00:06:00]
Gus Applequist: worked. Orchestra.
Sarah VanLanduyt: We love orchestra too. So I, you know, I participated in the arts all through school. My degrees are in, history and museum management. So I've worked in local history kind of in the beginning of my career. And then, saw the opening for, the program officer position with Kansas Arts Commission, and at that time it was focused on like professional development for small to midsize nonprofit organ arts organizations.
Oh, okay. So much similarity, right between arts and humanities in terms of, nonprofit organizations. And I, I love that part of the job. And so I thought, well, I, I can do that. So I kind of felt. A little bit backwards into an arts career. Mm-hmm. and you know, his, now my job isn't necessarily presenting arts programming, but it's talking about policy, which that kind of brings my history background kind of full circle.
Mm-hmm. So that's [00:07:00] my weird. Fall into an arts career.
Gus Applequist: Yeah. It's, it's, you've sort of chosen it like, or it's chosen you maybe is a better way to put it. Yeah,
Sarah VanLanduyt: I, yeah,~ ~
Gus Applequist: ~Yeah, ~
Sarah VanLanduyt: ~I, yeah, ~ I think it definitely has. And I was thinking about, um, I think I was thinking about that this morning 'cause I thought, oh, I bet they're gonna ask me about that.
Um. There's so much similarity. The reason I was drawn to history in museums was, using objects to tell people's stories or, just learning about the, the, your community or the people who lived in a specific neighborhood or how their story is important to that particular community, which is important to the state, which is important to our national story.
And I think there's a lot of similarity in artists because they're storytellers. As well, whether it's through music or visually or you know, spoken word or through writing, they're telling a story of their experience, which is a part of our community and a part of this bigger tapestry of, you know, kind of our, our, our national story.
~Mm-hmm. ~
Sydney Collins: ~That's amazing. ~
Arts Council Mission
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Sydney Collins: Let's talk about your day job. So give us kind of [00:08:00] the, the pitch of your organization and, and kind of what you, what your role is.
Sarah VanLanduyt: So I am the Executive Director for the Arts Council of Johnson County. Mm-hmm. We are a nonprofit organization. We are the local arts agency for Johnson County.
We kind of have a foot in the nonprofit world and a foot. The government world. So that's kind of a fun place to be. It's challenging, like no day is ever the same. I get to work with, legislators and civic leaders, and I also get to work with artists, and arts organizations. So a lot of our work at the Arts Council we, we strengthen the arts in our county community.
The way we do that is we find those gaps. I think in Johnson County there's. 150 ish that we know of nonprofit arts organizations. So it's not like you need one more to, to duplicate all the amazing things that everybody else is doing. What we can do is say, okay, you all are doing these amazing [00:09:00] things.
Where are the gaps? Where are the needs? And then how can we work with you or work with artists or work with community leaders to fill those gaps? Whether that's research, whether it's advocating, advocating for policy, we're about to, to start our first ever, arts and mental health residency and our mental health, um, uh, county mental health center.
So can that be a proving ground for some really cool programming that maybe then cities can replicate within, you know, their own spaces. So that's kind of what the Arts Council does. I tell people we don't, you know, we don't do really traditional arts programming 'cause there isn't a need for us to do that.
We can convene, we can advocate, we can research. Mm-hmm. We can pilot. Initiatives. That's kind of where we fit.
Sydney Collins: How many people do you have on your team?
Sarah VanLanduyt: We are a small and mighty team of two.
Sydney Collins: Oh my gosh. Helping 150 nonprofits through Johnson County.
Sarah VanLanduyt: Well, it's, it's, I mean, right. If you work in the arts, you know, it's highly collaborative work.
[00:10:00] That's true. So it's, yeah. Maybe you have a staff of 2, which, you know, a lot of organizations do have small staff, but working together, you're kind of a mighty force. They can get a lot of stuff done.
Sydney Collins: Wow.
Commission Funding Grants
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Sydney Collins: So, with your other hat with the Kansas Arts Commission, right?
Sarah VanLanduyt: Yes.
Sydney Collins: So how so you started there and then you went to Johnson County, but how does that relationship work or can you give some more insight on that?
I'm trying to figure how did that happen? Figure how everything connects.
Gus Applequist: Yeah.
Sarah VanLanduyt: I, I am, I. I'm trying to figure that out too. I think the through line is advocacy.
Sydney Collins: Okay. ~Okay. ~
Sarah VanLanduyt: ~Um, so in 20, I'm trying to think, ~I think it was in 2019 there were two legislators, from Johnson County and Wyandot County who were working in the state to increase the Kansas Arts Commission budget.
Right. Had been, sim severely decreased. I think they were at little over a hundred thousand dollars for their annual operating budget or their annual grant budget. And so, we supported the efforts of, um, these two legislators who were trying to get the appropriated dollar [00:11:00] amount increased, which they successfully did, and it kind of, we, we saw it grow by 500,000 and then another 500,000 and then another 500,000.
And so. It was through those supportive efforts, essentially they would just be like, Hey, we need, we need you to help communicate the impact. And I was like, on it, I will email and call all the people. Um, I think it, I think through those efforts that was my foot in the door to be appointed to the Kansas Arts Commission.
That's what I'm assuming.
Gus Applequist: We've been talking, with, actually back in March we did an entire month of stuff about the film bill and about how that kind of affects the creative industries of Kansas and, and. Makes a big impact. And, and [00:12:00] I know just here recently, the Arts Commission got funding again appropriated from the legislator.
Am I seeing all that correctly? Yes. Okay, good. Um, and, and I know that, that there was a little bit of a drama in, in towards the end of that process, but it was ultimately you got the funding again. So congratulations first of all, in, in that. But yeah, can you just kinda explain to us where that funding goes?
Like what does that funding actually mean?
Sarah VanLanduyt: the dollars that are appropriated by, our state legislature for the Kansas Arts Commission, those are used, primarily for grant funding. So it's, it's grants that come out here to Salina or to Dodge City, or to Hoxie or Junction City, or Emporia or Johnson County.
That's where that money. goes So it's, it's critically important to the creative industries of the state of Kansas. And, you know, every year we need to help the legislators understand the impact of those dollars. I mean, that's pretty significant because Kansas Arts Commission funding. It's a dollar for dollar match.
So [00:13:00] you, you know, you get maybe $10,000 from the Kansas Arts Commission for your grant, but you've gotta match that with another 10,000 of in kind or cash support. So it's, you know, it's, it's a significant investment from the state's perspective, of course, but it's a significant investment by your local community in, you know, the arts infrastructure of, of your city or your county.
So it's, it's important stuff to our, to our state. Wow. Yeah.
Gus Applequist: And your role as a commissioner then, what? You know, what do you do? Yeah. Um, obviously advocacy. Can you just,
Sarah VanLanduyt: so as commissioners we're part of the governing body, so, um, we work, you know, we get to work with Curtis Young, who is the director, and Kate Van Teahouse, the assistant director.
Um, and a lot of our focus is, you know, maybe it's, approving grant awards after that's gone through working on strategic planning for the, the Arts Commission or for the arts in Kansas. I think there's also an opportunity for commissioners to play a role in the [00:14:00] advocacy world and talk to their local legislators about the impact and the importance of the arts.
Maybe not as much so as what the Kansas Arts Network does. I mean, that's our sole focus and that particular organization, but I think, you know, it, it doesn't hurt to hear from a commissioner also,
Gus Applequist: definitely.
Sydney Collins: Mm-hmm. As you. Have all these roles and you talk to, um, all these organizations. Is there, are there needs that, you see on a regular basis that, you're working towards to get, um, more either funding or help for the, for, for that type of need?
Or can you kind of speak to that of, of maybe something that you guys are working on?
Sarah VanLanduyt: Dollars are always Yeah. Helpful. Right. Um, you know, general operating support is, is so important, because that then empowers or allows organizations to do their work. You know, support for artists to be creative and, and to, [00:15:00] you know, fund their creative practice.
That's critically important.
Arts Network Collaboration
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Sarah VanLanduyt: But I was thinking, you know, this morning too, what's so beautiful about the Kansas Arts Network. Is it is an advocacy organization and our work is to, our focus is to advocate for public funding of the arts at a state level. But from the arts network has become or has come this really strong connection and infrastructure.
I now, I mean, I, I feel like I always have had, but it feels more important or it feels more, at my fingertips to call Anna at Salina Arts and Humanities and say, Hey, we have some money to do like a, a residency call. Have you ever done something? Can, can I see how you've structured it or it's opened up all of these opportunities to, to.
Share information with our peers across the state. So much easier than what it was before. And it's also helped us develop this Kansas [00:16:00] Arts. Um, it has a new name now. It's a year. We changed the name a year ago the annual conference.
It's such a great professional development opportunity too now, and it brings people from across the state. I think last year we had like 150 people come, you know, and learn from each other, in addition to network and, and share information and resources and see these amazing performances in Wichita.
So I think those things are so lovely and critical and important and beautiful, and just a wonderful part of what's been built over the last few years.
Sydney Collins: We were able to be a sponsor of it when it was here in Salina and just being in the hallway.
Just being in the hallway and talking to all the people from all across the state that have not necessarily the, the exact same goal, but have the same mindset of just creating art for their community and being a support system for that in their community is [00:17:00] amazing. It's fascinating. It is, um, an experience of like everyone.
People weren't afraid to be vulnerable.
Gus Applequist: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Sydney Collins: And I thought that was kind of an interesting kind of difference between any other conference that I've been to is like, I'm having this issue. This is the issue. We haven't dealt with it well, what do, what do you suggest we do? And then everyone's like, oh yeah, we've done the same thing.
Yeah. Here's how we did it. Yeah. And it's just like, it's fascinating that world, that world as everyone is. I dunno. I can go on and on about it, but,
Sarah VanLanduyt: well, and I mean, you know, we work in the creative industries. Mm-hmm. Um, and so that's what we know. But it just seems to me it's such a, a highly collaborative and helpful and, you know, I, I never feel dumb calling up somebody and being like, Hey, I, I don't think I know how to do this.
I know and I know you know how to do this. Would you share some advice or give us some guidance? I think everybody is so willing to, to be supportive and help you be successful. [00:18:00]
Sydney Collins: Do you think that is just a Kansas trait, or would you contribute that kind of mindset to being in the arts?
Sarah VanLanduyt: I would say maybe both.
Sydney Collins: Yeah,
Sarah VanLanduyt: both. And yes. Um,
Sydney Collins: it's kind of a fun question. Put you on the spot. I,
Sarah VanLanduyt: you know, I don't know, you know, is it, is it a Midwest thing? Is it a Kansas thing? Mm-hmm. Is it a creative community thing? I think it's a little of everything. You know, I, I. Growing up in Kansas and, and kind of having my collegiate career here and, and part of my professional career here now, most of it now here I just, I, it Kansans are very like, roll up their sleeves.
Okay, you have an issue, let's figure it out together. And I'm sure that's true in other places, but this is where I live and this is what I know
Gus Applequist: that reminds me of stories of like, farmers showing up for a, a farmer that. He either passed away or can't, you know, harvest his own wheat and everybody shows up.
I saw, a story that, that hits me at this moment that's at [00:19:00] this intersection of, of. Art and the rest of the world sort of. Um, a few years ago there was this video that went viral of, these people, I think it was somewhere in Eastern Europe, and they saw a dog down in a riverway about to be swept away, and this brave guy went down this concrete slope and then went out and got the dog, but then he couldn't get back up again.
And so people came along and they formed a human chain to go down and get the dog out. And I remember watching that and feeling impacted by it. And then this week or last week, they unveiled a sculpture that now occupies that same spot. Bronze sculpture of people, you know, holding each other's hands to get this dog out.
And it hit me so much deeper for some reason, you know, that's that some artist saw that story and thought, no, this is actually like critically important that we recognize the beauty of this moment. And so I just think that's such a great [00:20:00] example of, of, of an artist coming along and, and celebrating something that maybe the rest of us just needed to look at a little bit differently.
Sarah VanLanduyt: Yeah. I and that, that just made me think, you know, the legislative session is, is mostly wrapped up. During some very intense moments, you know, where, where we were working really hard to keep as much of the funding intact as we could. I was calling or emailing people that I had never talked to before, but I knew that they were a grant recipient in the last couple of years, and I knew that the K ACEC had an, had an impact on them.
And it was just kind of a cold caller or a cold email like, hey. I need to ask for your help. Would you be willing to do this? And of course, people stepped up and they were, they were calling their, their legislators and talking about how impactful this work is. And it just, you know, in a, and sometimes when the world feels very heavy, that is a very like, whew, this is great.
I love people.
Advocacy Creative Partners
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Gus Applequist: I, I don't wanna stereotype [00:21:00] creatives. I, but I, but I guess here you go. As a creative yourself, I, I consider myself a creative and I know that, um. I'm, I'm not always the best at structuring my thoughts in a way that makes sense to other people. And, and so I, I have surrounded myself with wonderful people like Sydnee and Julie, um, just off camera here, who, who are very structural, structural, structural thinkers.
There we go. And, um, and it just strikes me that the work you do really benefits people like me. You know, not, not that all creatives. Kind of fit that typecast, but that many of us do need people around us that can help us make sense of what we're doing and make a help us do it at a higher level. So I guess what I'm really saying here is thank you, thank you for the work that you do, because I think, it, it enables those artistic brains to really spend the time in the art and not fighting all the battles that have to be fought.
So yeah. [00:22:00] Thanks.
Sarah VanLanduyt: Well, you're, you're welcome. Um, it, it's, it's a joy to work with all of the people who do the advocacy work, across the state. And it's, um, I, I love when we have our Zoom calls and we're kind of planning, like how do we, how do we communicate this message? And to have, you know, folks who are, are maybe in leadership positions in organizations or they are artists themselves.
And how the, those skills compliment each other to communicate, you know, a really important story. Those are my favorite meetings. Because I, I, I am a big nerd and I, I am so focused on, you know, like the policy and the, the nuts and bolts of it all and kind of the, the management of it all. And I can get.
Very narrow focused in that way. And I love working with artists and other creative people who come in and they're like, okay, yes, but nobody really wants to listen to you. Say it that way. There's a better way to communicate it. Sure. [00:23:00] That's a little more enticing and engaging. Mm-hmm. And exciting. Um, and this is how we can do it visually or, you know, or other ways.
Refuel Avoid Burnout
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Sydney Collins: I'm gonna shift gears a little bit just for my own curiosity. So you have this love for history, you work in the arts. How has it been trying to keep that love alive of, of, you know, why you went to school for this certain degree, but also incorporate it in your day to day?
How, how's that been for you?
Sarah VanLanduyt: It can be work. I will say that. [00:24:00] Mm-hmm. Um, right, because it is, I think the work that we do in, in, in the arts and in advocacy, particularly it is a marathon, right? It's not a sprint. So, um, and oftentimes like everyone in this field and other fields too, you get to wear a lot of hats, especially if you work with a small team, right?
You're them. You're the director, you're the, financial process, payment processing. You are, you know, marketing and communications. You're doing all of these things. And it, it can be honest, quite honestly, a lot. And so I think it is important, and I'm saying this to remind myself to do it as much as, you know,
talking about all the wonderful people I work with, I think it's so important that we make sure that we build time to step away for a minute so you don't lose that spark and you don't lose that passion for it because it, it can be a grueling schedule, you know, like any other job. It, it's, it's a lot of work and it's important to [00:25:00] like, rest your brain.
Carve
Sydney Collins: that out. Yeah.
Gus Applequist: So what, what refuels your tank then, when you have that time and you create that time, what, what gets, what keeps you going?
Sarah VanLanduyt: I like to be outside now that it's warmer, except for today it's not warm. I thought it was gonna be warmer, but maybe not. Um, I like to be outside. I do garden.
Um, I like to go for walks. My husband drove down with me today, and so this is kind of a little day away. We're gonna go have lunch downtown and, and meet up with a colleague later, and then, mm-hmm. Stop at the Russell Stoves outlet. Yep. Yes. On the way back. So just unplugging from all technology that can be helpful.
We were just, we were planning like a weekend trip up to Omaha to go bum around and do some stuff, or I, you know, listen to, uh, podcasts too. So just things that I can wear, I can turn off my brain and, and just kind of be
Future of Kansas Arts
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Sydney Collins: With all your hats, what's kind of your hope for the arts in Kansas going forward?
Sarah VanLanduyt: I feel like we're on a really [00:26:00] strong path, and I do hope that we continue that path. Um, the board, the Kansas Arts Network Board we meet monthly and periodically we kinda look at each other and go, oh my gosh, we've only been doing this for like two or three years.
Look how far we've come. Like there's an arts day now. We have an annual conference. People are activated and they're engaged. We have, you know. A membership program. We have these meetings now. This is a huge progress. So I, um, I would hope that that trajectory continues, that we continue to build and we are able to get more people engaged with the arts network.
More people come to the conference, more people feel like they are part of something that's bigger than them, and that, that hope and that energy continues because it is a slog. It is a marathon. Yeah, I just, I've, I feel really hopeful and positive with what we've achieved so far, and I feel like we're continuing that road and hope that we do continue that road.
Making the Case for Arts
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Gus Applequist: We, are, are pretty deeply [00:27:00] connected with Salina Arts and Humanities based here in Salina. Um, and one of the conversations that Brad Anderson and I have had several times in the past is, is, is just. Kind of between the two of us. I guess having the continuing thought that the arts are not like the cherry on top of life.
That, that, it, it can be that, but it's also like fundamental to our society. And enjoyment and living a rich and full life. And so as you communicate to politicians and to, to, you know, folks that have to make a lot of difficult decisions
Sarah VanLanduyt: right.
Gus Applequist: What are the compelling arguments that you feel have really landed with them about why this is, you know, not only a good investment, but like actually means something really important?
Sarah VanLanduyt: When I think it's along those lines, it's talking about how the arts strengthen us at a statewide level, at a county level, at a municipal level, at a neighborhood level. they strengthen us through economic impact [00:28:00] through, mental health, public safety, through education, through workforce development.
They support veterans. They, you know, they build connection. They create community or support community identity. There's so many ways that the arts and creativity permeate our lives and enhance our communities in a way, um, in a positive way. And. I think that's important to communicate that in addition to
the beauty of the arts and the aesthetic of the arts, it does have a real practical impact in, in your daily life. Uh, and I think that's something that, ~um, we've, ~we've seen resonate with legislators is, you know, not so much the economic impact though, that is significant, but when we talk about arts, education and how that builds, It builds critical thinking skills. It supports workforce development. And if you talk about arts and health and how it supports mental health, how it supports, or helps mitigate this [00:29:00] epidemic of loneliness that we're all experiencing, how it supports veterans, in their transition back into, being civilians and other issues they may be dealing with that, you know, people go, oh.
Tell me more. So that, um, that's a really great way to communicate or kind of get your foot in the door and then start to share all of the other wonderful things that arts and humanities do, or arts and creativity do for us.
Art Sparks Community Talk
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Gus Applequist: As you talk about the 150 arts organizations in Johnson County you know, it, it does, it's very clear to me here in Salina, in our arts community that.
That it involves so many organizations that are not arts organizations. Mm-hmm. That like the arts connect people, uh, across huge kind of, not divides, but huge, uh, uh, areas of diversity within our community. And that, and that's, you know, another one of the exciting things I think that. The arts brings us is that connectivity with people that aren't like us.
And [00:30:00] another little tidbit that Brad, I'm so sorry that, that Brad, uh, often says is he loves it when like a piece of art is divisive. Oh, yeah. And like, yeah, some people like it and others like, that's hideous.
Sarah VanLanduyt: Mm-hmm.
Gus Applequist: And he's like, it invites conversation. Mm-hmm. Without, without the conversation, I may not even know you.
But if I know what you don't like, at least I know something about you. You know, it starts a conversation. So anyway.
Sarah VanLanduyt: Yeah. Yep. Brad's a smart guy. Um, he knows what he is doing.
Gus Applequist: He's a mentor of mine, so sometimes my mouth just produces things he's put in it.
Sarah VanLanduyt: But I mean, that's another great way that arts connects us is, um, you know, I always think of like public artwork sometimes.
That can be, that can be a real community conversation a lot in a lot of ways, right.
Sydney Collins: Salina is a really good example of that. It's,
Public Art Perspectives
---
Gus Applequist: it's,
Sarah VanLanduyt: I think we probably all have had those experiences, but it invites all these different perspectives because, you know, at public art it is, it's funded by the public.
Mm-hmm. [00:31:00] It's in a public, you know, area. So of course a lot of people are gonna intersect with it or, or have experiences with it. And it's important. I mean, that's civics in action, right? Yeah. It's important to have all those perspectives and have those conversations. And it just, it makes life that much more richer.
I, I, you know, I would agree with Brad, maybe it's not always the most fun thing to go through or experience, but you do under, you're like, yeah, this is important. I get it. Yeah.
Gus Applequist: Mm-hmm.
Wrapping The Interview
---
Sydney Collins: Well. I don't have any more questions for you.
Gus Applequist: I don't think so. This is a really great interview. Thanks for Thank you so much.
Coming all the way out here to Salina for, for this
Sydney Collins: and making a day of it. We appreciate it.
Sarah VanLanduyt: I, I love, I I was telling my husband Kyle, we drove out here and I was like, I haven't been out here since the conference, so it'll be fun.
Sydney Collins: Oh yeah.
Sarah VanLanduyt: Just to wander downtown and see all the murals and find a local place to eat and, we're gonna meet up with Anna later and That's awesome.
Yeah. So.
Sydney Collins: Well, brilliant. Well, thank you so much. Thanks.
Sarah VanLanduyt: Yeah, thank you both.
[00:32:00]
Politics Of Funding Art
---
Gus Applequist: We hope you enjoyed that conversation with Sarah. I, I know just enough about politics to know that it is complicated. Yeah. And that I'm glad that there are people that, that are willing to spend their time and energy. Trying to get things done with, with politicians and, and with our government, and so, yeah.
I appreciate Sarah and everything she's doing for us.
Sydney Collins: Well, it's just all of the, and, and maybe this is something we should have gotten into is all of the Yes. The politics, but yes, it's okay. I need to represent this group of people, but that group of people have vastly different [00:33:00] needs. Of, yes, we all need money.
That's kind of like the basis of, you know, any type of nonprofit organization to keep funds running. People need to be you know, adequately funded and paid for the work that they are doing for their community. But like, art throughout Kansas is so different for everyone. It looks different. Does that mean, you know, public art?
Does that mean art programs for kids for, you know. Young adults for, I don't know, singer songwriters for film for mm-hmm. This art is, has the biggest umbrella.
Gus Applequist: Yeah.
Sydney Collins: And how do we make it rain on all those fun little things?
Gus Applequist: I had a professor once that defined politics as the allocation of scarce resources.
Sydney Collins: Oh.
Gus Applequist: And, um, and I really like that definition and I, I think it makes sense that. Sarah and those around here are, are arguing that some little piece of that allocation of scarce [00:34:00] resources should, should go to art. So. Yeah.
Rectangle Outlaws Game
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Gus Applequist: Well, I have you. You're so excited.
Sydney Collins: I'm thrilled.
Gus Applequist: Okay, so today we have a new episode of Where In The Rectangle.
This is the, we
Sydney Collins: haven't done a Where In The Rectangle
Gus Applequist: I know.
Sydney Collins: In a while,
Gus Applequist: so this is good. I was feeling guilty about that. And so here we are. Do you want me to get your, your square? Yeah, I need my
Sydney Collins: rectangle.
Gus Applequist: I just called it a square.
I was just thinking like we haven't done much with outlaws. We've, we've touched on a few. Yeah, that's fair. It's been a little while, so. Um, and I'm, I'm throwing a little bit of a, a, I don't know, a quirk into this one. 'cause we're gonna do, we're in the rectangle, we're gonna do six different outlaws.
Okay. And you're gonna guess what towns are most closely associated with them. Okay. Now, okay. And then we'll also do two truths and a lie after each one. Oh
Sydney Collins: wow.
Gus Applequist: Okay. So, love
Sydney Collins: it.
Dalton Gang Coffeyville
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Gus Applequist: We're gonna start with the Dalton gang.
Sydney Collins: Oh.
Gus Applequist: So where do you think in Kansas, and you don't, you know, I
Sydney Collins: should know this. There's someone that I know that's related [00:35:00] to them now that I think about this.
Gus Applequist: Oh really? Maybe you can back into the answer then.
And if you wanna guess a region, you can, we don't have to get super specific.
Sydney Collins: Oh gosh. I know this. I know. I know this. I don't know. I'm gonna go north, Northwest ish.
Gus Applequist: Okay. Well, so. In full honesty, there may be more to their history than I have access to in my brief preparation for this. So, um, that's not the answer, but, okay.
Uh, on October 5th, 1892, three Dalton Brothers, Bob Grat and Emmett, along with Bill Powers and Dick Broadwell, attempted to rob two banks at the same time in their hometown of Coffeeville.
Sydney Collins: Yeah. Dang. In
Gus Applequist: Montgomery County. Dang
Sydney Collins: it. Montgomery, yeah.
Gus Applequist: It did not go well. So we're gonna go to our hoos and a lie, and, so here they are.
So a, [00:36:00] the gang originally planned to tie their horses between the two banks, but construction on the street forced them to hitch in a back alley, which cut off their escape route.
Sydney Collins: Oh, that makes sense. B.
Gus Applequist: The townspeople recognized the Daltons, despite their fake beards, armed themselves from nearby hardware stores and killed four of the five gang members in a shootout or see after the failed robbery, the city of Coffeeville passed a Law banning anyone with the last name Dalton, from entering city limits, and it technically stayed on the books until 1952,
Sydney Collins: I believe.
CI believe that's something so weird and small Townish. If that makes sense. But yeah, I'm gonna go, well, gosh, I don't know. 'cause all of them are pretty out there. I'm gonna go a is the lie
Gus Applequist: I. About hitching their horses. You fell for my trick. Here it is. C. That is not true. There is no it's not. Yeah. But actually did cut off their own escape route by where they tied up their [00:37:00] horses.
And I like the fake beard thing is also hilarious.
Sydney Collins: I knew the beard thing. I've heard of the beard thing.
Gus Applequist: Yeah. If you don't like pictures of dead people, do not look up. The Dalton gang.
Sydney Collins: Oh
Gus Applequist: yeah. 'cause like that's all you'll see, every picture is a picture of their four dead corpses on the, it's morbid.
And, and they like on some of the pictures, they like label their names. It's just weird. Okay. Moving on.
Hardin In Abilene
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Gus Applequist: Our outlaw number two is John Wesley Harden.
Sydney Collins: Oh, goodness. Harden.
Gus Applequist: Yep.
Sydney Collins: I have no idea who this person is, so I'm gonna go out on a limb.
Can say Northeast. Jefferson County.
Gus Applequist: Jefferson County. Okay. Hardin was a Texas outlaw who arrived in. Abilene in the summer of 1871.
Sydney Collins: Always
Abilene
Gus Applequist: at the end of a cattle drive up the Chisholm Trail. He was 18 years old and already had a considerable body count. The town [00:38:00] Marshall at the time was Wild. Bill Hickok.
Sydney Collins: Mm. So Dickinson County.
Gus Applequist: Dickinson County, yep.
Sydney Collins: It's always Abilene. I knew she needed to guess like Dodge City, Abilene, what's the other? Good cow town anyway.
Gus Applequist: Okay, our two truth and a lie on this one. So a Harden challenged Wild Bill Hickok to a dual in the street, but Hickok refused saying he didn't shoot men under 21 or B.
Harden once shot and killed a man in a hotel because the man was snoring two loudly in the next room.
Sydney Collins: I'll believe that,
Gus Applequist: or c. Harden claimed to have killed 42 men by the age of 23. Though historians have confirmed only about half that number.
Sydney Collins: I'm gonna go with A is the lie.
Gus Applequist: Your instincts are spot on.
Hardin and Hickok actually had a cautious but almost friendly relationship. Hardin was using an alias and Hickok may have not even known who he really was at first. No street dual ever happened. And Hardin eventually fled Abilene out a hotel window in his undershirt after he killed the [00:39:00] guy snoring.
Afraid that Hickok would come after him.
Sydney Collins: Well, what gave it away is didn't shoot. Uh, shoot Men under 21. 21 is such a weird number because even back then Drinking age was like there. There wasn't really a thing
Gus Applequist: like smart. Yep. I didn't think of that. Yeah. Yep. Very good. Okay.
Henry Brown Turns Bad
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Gus Applequist: Our third outlaw is Henry Newton Brown.
Sydney Collins: Henry, do we have any background on Henry?
Gus Applequist: He has a really good haircut and definitely a wonderful mustache. He
Sydney Collins: definitely, that is a, a really good mustache. Mm-hmm. Um,
Gus Applequist: there's your background.
Sydney Collins: What county is Dodge City in?
Gus Applequist: Oh, no, you would ask me
Sydney Collins: that. I would, I would. Wherever Dodge City's at, that's my guess.
Gus Applequist: Okay. So this one's a twist. Henry Newton Brown was the Marshall of Caldwell. Oh. Caldwell is in South central Kansas in Sumner County. He previously rode with Billy the kid during the Lincoln [00:40:00] County War in New Mexico, but he came to Caldwell, cleaned up his act and got promoted to Marshall. He cleaned up the town and then got married.
The citizens of Caldwell were so grateful that they gave him an engraved Winchester rifle as a gift. Now this is where his story goes a little bit crazy.
Sydney Collins: I was gonna say, how is he an outlaw?
Gus Applequist: Okay. Well, he was an outlaw previously. But
Sydney Collins: Oh, and then he cleaned up his act. Right? Okay. Sorry, I was not listening on that one.
Gus Applequist: If you, if we go to two Truth and a Lie on April 30th, 1884, brown used that very same gift rifle to rob the Medicine Valley Bank in nearby Medicine Lodge, Kansas, killing the bank president. B is Brown's wife. Alice was so distraught that she rode to Medicine Lodge and attempted to break him out of jail before the lynching or C.
After being captured, brown wrote a heartfelt letter to his wife from jail and was then shot dead trying to escape. His accomplices were lynched by a mob that same night.
Sydney Collins: Oh, [00:41:00] goodness.
Oh, medicine Lodge. Huh? That's where my mom grew up. Gosh, I don't know. I'm gonna go with see the mob. I don't think people liked him that much.
Gus Applequist: So that is actually true.
Sydney Collins: Really.
Gus Applequist: B is the lie. There's no historical record of Alice attempting a jailbreak. She was a college educated woman from a respectable Caldwell family, and by all accounts, she was totally blindsided by her husband's return to crime.
Sydney Collins: Yeah.
Gus Applequist: Kind of sad for Alice, obviously.
Sydney Collins: Oh, or Alice married the bad boy. Thought she got a gem.
Gus Applequist: He just couldn't keep, you know,
Sydney Collins: couldn't
Gus Applequist: keep it
Sydney Collins: straight.
Gus Applequist: Yep. Okay.
Quantrill Raid Lawrence
---
Gus Applequist: If, if you're, if you stand a chance in any of these, I think it might be this next one. outlaw number four is William Quantrill.
Sydney Collins: Is there a Quantrill County?
Gus Applequist: There is not for very good reason. Um, yeah.
Sydney Collins: How do you think I would get this?
Gus Applequist: I'll, I'll give you a little hint. His name is known for Quantrill's Raid.
Sydney Collins: Abilene, I don't [00:42:00] know, Dodge City Medicine, launch, all of those.
Gus Applequist: Okay. I got
Sydney Collins: nothing.
Gus Applequist: I'll give you one more hint. He is tied to John Brown loosely.
Sydney Collins: Oh, shoot.
Um, and this is the, yeah. The one that I should know and I don't.
Gus Applequist: Okay.
Sydney Collins: Yeah. I'm losing it.
Gus Applequist: August 21st, 1863. During the Civil War, Confederate Gar Gorilla leader William Quantrill, led approximately 450 Raiders into Lawrence. In a dawn attack,
AAK_Ep55_wide: yeah.
Sydney Collins: Lawrence. Yeah.
Gus Applequist: The raid killed between 150. Sorry. Between 150 and 190 men and boys, Burned most of the town's buildings and remains one of the most devastating attacks on civilians during the entire Civil War. Among Quantrill's Raiders were young men who had later become famous, outlaws themselves, Frank and Jesse, James and Cole Younger.
Sydney Collins: Wow.
Gus Applequist: Mm-hmm. So our two truths and a lie, Quantrill had actually lived in Lawrence years [00:43:00] earlier, under a fake name, and worked there as a school teacher before becoming a gorilla leader.
B US Senator James Lane, one of Quantros primary targets escaped the raid by fleeing through a cornfield in his night shirt or c Quantros. Raiders accidentally burned their own supply of wagons during the raid, forcing them to retreat earlier than planned.
Sydney Collins: I'm gonna go
me, I wanna go. A is the lie.
Gus Applequist: That is true. C was the lie. Quantros Raiders, uh, didn't actually burn their own supplies. They methodically looted and burned the town for about four hours before riding out at 9:00 AM Wow. Their retreat was prompted by the approach of pursuing union forces. So yeah. Alright.
Bloody Benders Mystery
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Gus Applequist: Uh, this next one is one of the creepiest stories of Kansas. Well,
Sydney Collins: I can already tell by the weird drawings there,
Gus Applequist: but we don't have pictures of these folks. This, this is the family referred to as the Bloody Benders.
Sydney Collins: Oh my goodness. [00:44:00] That sounds like a, the bloody benders.
Gus Applequist: Mm-hmm.
Sydney Collins: Oh,
Gus Applequist: we've actually covered them once previously on the podcast.
Sydney Collins: Yeah. This is like episode 50 plus
Gus Applequist: here. Yeah, it's true.
Sydney Collins: This is, this is a while
Gus Applequist: ago. Early on we talked about it.
Sydney Collins: I'm gonna go, can you give a year?
Gus Applequist: Sure. Early 1870s.
Sydney Collins: I didn't help.
Gus Applequist: Sorry.
Sydney Collins: What about, I feel like not a lot was happening Northwest is what I'm, what I'm feeling here.
Gus Applequist: That's fair.
Sydney Collins: So I'm gonna go randomly.
Coffee County. I.
Gus Applequist: Coffee County
Sydney Collins: up there. Kinda Central East ish.
Gus Applequist: Okay.
Sydney Collins: Maybe South Central? Yeah. Or Southeast.
Gus Applequist: So not too far off really. That's, that's one of your closer guesses. So this one's less Wild West Gunfighter and more Frontier Horror Story,
Sydney Collins: huh?
Gus Applequist: The Bender family. A mother, father, son and daughter operated a [00:45:00] small road site in along the Osage Trail Trail.
Near Cherryvale in the early 1870s that is in Oh, wow. Yeah. Labette County, not
Sydney Collins: close.
Gus Applequist: Travelers would stop for a meal and many of them never left. They killed at least 11 people and possibly as many as 20. So to truth and a lie, a after their crimes were discovered. In 1873, a posse tracked the benders to the Oklahoma border, and all four were hanged on the spot.
B Daughter Kate Bender advertised herself as a psychic healer and spiritual medium, which helped lure travelers to their road, roadside Inn, or C. Their method was to seat a guest at dinner with their back against a canvas curtain. Then one of the Benders would strike the victim in the head with a hammer.
My gosh.
Sydney Collins: Okay. Uh.
Gus Applequist: I'm sorry if you weren't prepared for that graphic
Sydney Collins: detail. I was prepared for the hammer in the head. No.
Gus Applequist: Yeah.
Sydney Collins: Um, I don't know. I'm gonna [00:46:00] go a is a lie, just 'cause Posse is an interesting name. For a group of people,
Gus Applequist: you nailed it. Um, A is the lie. The Benders were never caught. They vanished in 1873 and despite a $5,000 state reward, their fate has never been confirmed.
Some theories say they were caught and killed by a vigilante posse. Others say they escaped to Europe. It remains one of Kansas' greatest unsolved mysteries.
Sydney Collins: Wow.
Mysterious Dave Mather
---
Gus Applequist: And that brings us to our final and my favorite. Meet mysterious Dave.
Sydney Collins: Mysterious Dave with another quality mustache.
Gus Applequist: He's, he's got a great mustache in the hat.
He's got cock eyebrow. Um, yeah, I'm gonna just say. Sydney, stick to your guns on this one.
Sydney Collins: Stick to my guns on this one. Dodge City.
Gus Applequist: Yes, well done. We had to get to Dodge City eventually. Uh, mysterious. Dave Mather was an assistant City Marshall in Dodge City, who also happened to be a cattle wrestler, horse thief.
Stan was suspected of involvement in a train robbery.
Sydney Collins: Oops. [00:47:00] Hiring these marshals.
Gus Applequist: I know he earned the nickname Mysterious because he was extremely taciturn, meaning he didn't, he simply didn't talk about himself. No one knew much about his past. No one knew much about his plans, and eventually no one knew what happened to him either.
Um, he also claimed to be a descendant of Cotton Mather, though historians have found that that's probably not true. Okay, so two truths and a lie. A Mather got into a feud with a rival saloon owner named Tom Nixon over a dance hall ordinance. Nixon shot at Mather first and only grazed him three days later.
Mather shot and killed Nixon. A jury acquitted him in seven minutes. B. Mather once lost a poker game so badly in the Long Branch Saloon that he pulled out his gun and shot out every light in the building, then walked out without paying. See. After disappearing from Kansas in 1885, Mather was reportedly spotted decades later, wearing the uniform of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.
[00:48:00] Though this has never been confirmed,
Sydney Collins: part of me is like it has to be B, because I don't think they really, they didn't have lights in 1885 ish. But then you pull the Canadians in here and I'm like, were the Royal Canadian Mountain Police even a thing.
It's never been confirmed. So I'm gonna go B.
Gus Applequist: Yep. That one's made up entirely. Okay. There is a legend though about Mather periodically shooting at a bell outside of a saloon just to test his sobriety. But the poker game light story is complete fiction. I, I'm, I share your skepticism of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, though.
Um, but there are,
Sydney Collins: I wanna
Gus Applequist: know
Sydney Collins: when they
Gus Applequist: came a thing, there's a couple sources that, that. At least validate that people were, um, keeping that legend alive.
Sydney Collins: Oh, okay. The Royal Canadian Mounted Police was originally formed as the Northwest Mounted Police on May 23rd, [00:49:00] 1873.
Gus Applequist: Man, they had to hurry down. They
Sydney Collins: had to hurry.
Gus Applequist: They had 12 years to get down to Kansas to be spot.
Sydney Collins: Yeah.
Mustaches And Trivia
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Gus Applequist: Well that brings us, to the end of this segment of wearing the rectangle outlaws of the Old West Edition.
Hope you enjoyed that. There's a lot of epic mustaches going on here. There's
Sydney Collins: a lot.
Gus Applequist: I'm counting 1, 1, 2, 3. I feel like we're almost back
Sydney Collins: there with the mustaches.
Gus Applequist: 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, and there are 10 mustaches on this screen alone.
Sydney Collins: Do you think that there, other than just like looks, was there a purpose for mustaches, do you think?
I know it's a really weird question, but like, no, I, everything usually had a purpose.
Gus Applequist: We had a historian here earlier. You should have asked her this important
Sydney Collins: question. Yeah. I don't think she'd know about Must the mustaches. Sorry, Sarah, but not that assuming. Maybe you do, but
Gus Applequist: I do think it's really funny that the Dalton gang, who also I believe had mustaches when they were killed.
I, check me on that. I'm not actually
Sydney Collins: saying Yeah, they [00:50:00] don't have any,
Gus Applequist: not, not on that, but, but they wore fake beards, like,
Sydney Collins: oh yeah. 'cause they just not grow. Beard,
AAK_Ep55_wide: I
Gus Applequist: guess. I don't dunno.
Sydney Collins: So the fake beards remind me of Oh, brother.
Gus Applequist: Yeah.
Sydney Collins: In the, in the on stage. But yeah, it's funny, like they fooled everyone with these beards.
Sorry. I really wanna know when Canada became a,
Gus Applequist: there there's a, there's like a, a, a deep history of, um,
Sydney Collins: July 1st, 1867.
Gus Applequist: That was when they were killed.
Sydney Collins: Canada officially became a country.
Gus Applequist: Oh, yep.
Sydney Collins: Hmm.
Final Thanks And Plugs
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Gus Applequist: Well that brings us to the end of another episode of Ask A Kansan, and thank you for tuning in today.
Sydney Collins: Make sure to like and subscribe on any platform that you are watching or listening from.
Uh, make sure to sign up for the Curious Kansan newsletter. By going to our website, ask a kansan.com.
Gus Applequist: And, uh, we recently had an interesting request. Uh, I haven't told you about this yet. Oh [00:51:00] goodness. But there is a church in Lynchburg that has asked me to come down there and speak about the podcast. Oh, really?
What are we trying to do about it? So, if, if that's something, that would benefit you or an organization you love, we'd love to come
Sydney Collins: Yeah.
Gus Applequist: Chat about what we do and, and maybe do something fun like where in the rectangle with you. So if that interests you, reach out.
Sydney Collins: Like, uh, and we're very serious about this. schools, churches, museums.
Gus Applequist: I can juggle.
Sydney Collins: Bachelorette parties.
Gus Applequist: I can balance things on my chin.
Sydney Collins: I can be very sarcastic and eye roll. That's about all my talents.
Gus Applequist: Well, thank you for tuning in. Have a great day.
Sydney Collins: Bye.