Stories of Wonder

Shaun Wilson knows business. The Bondi Sands co-founder and Deakin Master of Business alum sat down with us to talk about his education and business journey.

What is Stories of Wonder?

Stories of Wonder platforms and celebrates the real impact Deakin students, alumni, researchers and staff are making in the world, right now.

Deakin University CRICOS Provider Code: 00113B

Shaun Wilson is a Deakin
alum and a co-founder of Bondi Sands.

It's a brand that grew from a bold idea

into one of the world's
top selling self-tanning companies.

From studying at Deakin
to building a global business

grounded in values and innovation,
Shaun has achieved a lot in his career.

Now he's channeling his experience
into mentoring

the next generation.

From the lands of the Wurundjeri people,

This is Stories of Wonder.

Shaun Wilson, welcome
to "Stories of Wonder."

- Great to be here, Dom, fantastic.

- We're glad to have you.

Now, you are a founder of a brand

that's become a household name.

Bondi Sands is one of the
world's top self-tanning brands.

It's done collabs with the
AO, Coachella, Kylie Jenner,

did you always wanna be an entrepreneur?

- Look, I think in my childhood,

which I started living on a
farm, would you believe it?

But I did look at entrepreneurship
at a very young age,

and my dad, who was a
former AFL footballer,

then started farming,
completely different career.

He sort of taught me a bit about scaling

and at that time he was buying properties

and having chicken farms and dairy farms.

I was interested in it.

And I was interested in
how do you grow a company?

What does the product look like?

So I was interested at a young age,

and I think during my schooling years

and through the corporate days,

I was always interested in
brand product development

and looking at customer
obstacles or issues

and having a value
proposition to solve that.

And I was always engaged in that

and found that very interesting.

And yeah, I think that sort of thinking

and curiosity over time led
me to the Bondi Sands journey.

- Who'd your dad play for?

- (laughs) He actually played

for Fitzroy Football Club.

Unfortunately, Fitzroy, they,
well, not unfortunately,

I think it was a good thing

just based on the financial situation,

merged with Brisbane
Bears back in the '90s

and, but they've really carried
on the history very well

and obviously been a very successful club

over the last 25 years.

But yeah, he was a Hall of Famer,

a very, a very good footballer,

I've been told, I can't remember him.

I was only two or three when
we retired, so I can't recall.

But he told me he was very good.

(both laughing)

- Yeah, we'll take his word for it. Yeah.

And so he taught you, did
he teach you the basics

of business through his workings or?

- Yeah, I think Dad and Mum,
both of them, very hardworking,

very focused on their
business and properties

and went into property
development at the end as well.

And definitely in that environment

and culture you learn a bit
and in the family dynamics,

but also being surrounded
by like-minded people.

Throughout my journey at
schooling, Deakin University,

my corporate, I was always
around people with a good,

strong growth mindset.

I think that's really important.

And that really helped form

probably some of my
thinking over time as well.

- Yeah, sounds like you
grew up in a culture

that sort of lent itself...
- It's very important.

- to that.

Before you started your own company,

you were working for RACV for a while,

and by the time you were 28,

you managed a team of over 100 people.

Did you always wanna be a leader?

- I think I naturally
was a bit of a leader

through schooling or it was
through sport or prefect

or even my days at McDonald's.

My first job was McDonald's

and I become a store manager

at one stage so. (laughs)

- McDonald's mafia is strong.

- We've got two here.
- Is it?

- Yeah. Yeah.

- You know what? It was
some of the great years.

I was there for three years at Mornington

and learned a lot.

Standard procedures.

The owner of the McDonald's
franchise was very strong

on quality control and
procedures and have workflows.

All those things, I think,
you learn at a young age,

and I think they're great
skillset set to have.

And that was very dynamic

and I still remember that McDonald's,

because we had a massive
gas shortage in Victoria

at one stage.

I'm not sure if you remember that.

And geez, we were busy for like a month,

and I remember how dynamic it was

and how many shifts we were
doing and, but I loved it.

I loved how dynamic that franchise was

and learned a lot from it as well.

But, yeah, I think through that

and through my corporate days,

I learned a lot through that pathway.

- And so you were sporty at school?

- I was, yeah. Very sporty.

Not much anymore besides golf.

I love my golf.

That's a sport I love.

And Romy, my daughter,
she knows about golf.

She's only 18 months, but every morning

if she's up, there's a golf on.

(both laughing)

- Wow. Start 'em young.

- I know.

But, yeah, no, I do enjoy my sport.

- So more than 100 people sort of working

under you at the age of 28,

that's a pretty young age, I think.

And you know, I'm judging
by my career anyway,

to have that much responsibility.

Were you ready for it?

- I think so.

I think like ultimately I
loved working with people.

I had some great mentors
at RACV, Caroline King,

and Rebecca Arcuri really taught me

a lot about people management.

I learned a lot from Deakin
University in the HR subjects

in my master's course.

So ultimately about capability,
creating HR frameworks,

working with people, I
always was engaged to it.

And I think any business,
especially when you're a CEO

or founder and you wanna scale,

people's most important
P you'll ever have.

And I thoroughly enjoyed that process

and worked very closely
with HR departments

all through my whole life,

and I think I was ready at a young age.

I think you've still gotta
learn a lot on the job

and, you know, learn
that through experience.

But I believed I was ready,

and the company, RACV,
thought I was ready as well.

And that's what you need
as well from employer.

- Yeah. That's pretty good.

They believed in you
and they developed you.

- Exactly.

- Yeah.

You did end up going to Deakin University.

You did a Master's of
Business Sports Management.

When in your career did you do that

and why did you make the
decision to do a master's?

- Yeah, I did a Bachelor
of Applied Science

first at Deakin Uni.

That was through my love of
sport and the human body really,

but also coaching and leadership

and there was a lot of
subjects within that.

And that really followed
my pathway through

sports management initially,
then through RACV and looking

after leisure department,
which was golf courses,

gyms and day spars

and developing their own
product in the golf membership,

which was really exciting.

I thought I lacked probably

a little bit of the business fundamentals,

even though I was
learning a lot in the job.

I thought, you know what,

for me to come to a
next step in leadership,

there were certain
subjects I really wanted

to know better across those departments.

That includes finance, marketing,
HR, general capability.

So I believe that was a really
important next step for me

and my workplace was
really supportive of that.

And yes, I did night
school at uni at Deakin

for four years, it took.

- Wow.

- And I was travelling a fair
bit and working at night,

but I really enjoyed it.

I actually enjoyed postgrad

so much in terms of that experience

and it was really practical
for me and using those skills,

maybe I was probably a little
bit young in certain areas,

but I obviously had great colleagues

with me at Deakin Uni who
have had some great jobs

as well and a lot through
Coca-Cola, Telstra,

and you're learning a lot through
them, which was fantastic.

So, no, it was really
important for me to do

that course and it really
developed me as a leader

and as a manager as well over those years.

- Give us a little bit more on the skills

that you used in the course
that you still use today.

- There's many things from
a theory point of view

I still use today, from
management techniques

to marketing principles,
to even strategic focus.

I remember one subject and we
were looking at consumables

and it was really about focus
on your core of your business

and how do we actually bridge

that from a book called Jim
Collins "From Good to Great,"

which they touched on during the course.

And I actually read
that book amount of time

and I do follow some of those principles.

And what that principle is, is really

what can you be the
best at in your business

and what does that look like?

And you gotta identify that.

And I think in Bondi, we
identified self-tanning quite early

that we could disrupt that category.

More importantly though,

are you and your people who you employ

really passionate by that?

So is that culture of passion obsession

throughout the business, which is vital.

And from a financial point of view,

does it drive your economic engine?

Does it give you profit. (laughs)

More importantly when you're making

these decisions to continue
to grow the company.

And I think those sort
of theories I look at,

not just in a macro point of
view but at a department level.

So when I look at marketing
through Bondi, we've said,

"Okay, what can we be
the best at marketing,

not just let's as pick
10 marketing principles

and say we'll be okay them,
where can we put our capital?

Where can we put our time to
be really strong globally?"

And for us, that was social media,

and it was launched in 2012,

and for us in Instagram
and Facebook were coming on

and our brand was sort of
forming with those years.

So we really focused on
this content strategy,

creating this online cult-like following,

and then this influencer
strategy for content creation

and how do we actually
talk about the brand

through these channels?

So if we use that concept,
okay, we be the best at that,

so let's really invest heavily in that

and create capability around it.

And even from a finance
department point of view,

what can we do best in that?

So what does it look like
for us in terms of software?

And I said to my finance
manager very early on at Bondi,

and I came from a big
company, we used SAP,

nothing against SAP, but
it's a massive system.

What I didn't like about these big systems

with visibility quickly.

And I said, "Well, how
about as a agile company,"

which is a principle of that company,

agile and speed,

"is how can we get real time data in terms

of sales across the world next day?"

So that was his brief, and he did that.

So I had software, I could
see sales data quickly.

And even when we sold
our company at the end,

our acquirer, multinational
said, "This is incredible

that you can see this in
terms of this visibility."

So I think if you take that principle

and put it across many
departments is really

what you can win at that
really sets you apart

in every department, and
really at a macro level,

what's your culture to support that?

So that's just one principle
I use from Deakin Uni

and how I put that into a practical place.

But there's many of them that
I've used throughout my time

and from performance
planning to budgeting,

to strategic planning, all
these things come to my mind

and how I actually implemented 'em

through the Bondi Sands pathway.

- Yeah, that's really cool to
hear that there's some, yeah,

as you say, practical influence

from that...
- Absolutely.

- course

And it sounds like a great way to,

you know, instil focus...

- Exactly.

- into the business, into the category,

into every department.
- Exactly, Dom.

Exactly, Dom.

- Were there any placements

or experiences that you
had during the course

that like helped set you up

for what real life is like in business?

- I think ultimately some of the projects

or mini thesis we did within that time

was a practical standpoint.

I think when I look one
of the projects we did

was on consumables,

and I used that principle of that project

to look at the category
of self tanning for Bondi.

So that really allowed us to look at it,

both at an analytical point of view,

but also at a brand point of view.

So I used that project,
which was on a wine company,

but I put it across to more self tanning.

And I used the same sort of thinking

and format to create what I saw

of like a shorthand business plan,

which I did do before we launched it,

but it really helped me and my
business partner at the time

to really think through it

and how we actually gonna
navigate launching the brand

and how we were gonna be disruptive,

but also ensure we got this
customer value proposition

that makes sense to our
customers here in Australia,

but ideally overseas as well.

- So it was like a project that you did

during the course...

- Correct.

- that you could directly
sort of take the template

off from the framework and apply.

- Yeah.

- Yeah, yeah. That's good.

- Yeah.

- Yeah.
- Yeah.

So what percentage does Deakin

get (indistinct) Bondi Sands?
(Shaun laughing)

I don't think that check's cleared yet.

- Yeah, I got some
royalties to give to 'em.

- Yeah. Yeah.

That's really cool though.

That's really good to hear.

And I guess, how did, you know,

you've talked about it a bit then,

but more broadly, how did the
course set you up from, say,

before you started your masters at Deakin,

you know, you had some experience,

you were growing as a leader,
but, you know, doing it,

what did it give you

that you didn't have before to be able

to start your own business at that level?

- Yeah, I think really
giving me frameworks

was really important,

but also the culture of learning

and curiosity is just really key.

- Mm.

- And we were all big
supporters of that at Bondi,

and we call it the Bondi Star programme.

And seeing high performance
within the company,

supporting them through extra learning

with those short courses,

through universities or even some short

courses within Harvard
overseas we're looking at.

So it was really important for us to have

that culture as a group.

And for me, I really make
sure that I was as a founder

of continual learning as well.

And I think doing that course

and looking at these different theories

and different subjects and
putting it into practical sense,

but making sure you had that culture

of learning was critical
for me as a founder

and a CEO to create that culture,

hopefully, for Bondi and our team.

- Do you think it's a good
course for other people

who see themselves, you know,

starting their own company

or being in a leadership
position like a CEO

or executive level to do?

- Definitely.

And I think just the importance

of being exposed to these subjects

and developing you as
a leader is critical.

And I do say, I personally
believe great CEOs

or great leaders have the
same passion and enthusiasm

for all their departments,

and they're not
particularly focused on one.

Some people would
disagree with me on that,

but I like to think

if you're gonna be an all-rounded leader,

you got to be just as obsessed
with the finance department,

to HR, to marketing, to sales department,

to customer service, and you should be.

It all plays an equal part

to creating a beautiful
business and a beautiful brand.

And I think when you're
exposed to these courses,

that's what you're exposed to

and the multifacet of
these different subjects

and how that all works to one thinking

and critical thinking,

making good decisions, and
that's what it's all about.

How do you make quality
decisions consistently

to improve your company or business

and more importantly to give
value to your customers?

And I think what the courses do

is develop you in that person.

- And how common is that among the CEOs

that you've met the people
at the top of businesses?

- I, look, I can only see what you have

personal interactions with and obviously

from a media point of view,

but you do see certain
CEOs of a certain style,

and that's fine as well.

I think you have more growth
CEOs be concentrating on

certain areas and you
have more risk-averse CEOs

because that's what the business needs.

So there's definitely a
different flavour of CEO

of what the business might
require at that particular time.

I think that's important to understand

and that's what boards might...

Really important role
of the boards as well.

But I think overall, though,

I think the great, long-lasting CEOs

and some of the CEOs that
I've always looked up to,

including one who is
just stepping down now,

but he came back again.

He was a Disney CEO and Bob Iger.

- Bob Iger.

- Yeah. Fantastic.

He's done some great books as well.

He's very generous CEO, very
practical, common sense,

but also very personable,
which I think you need

to be in this day and age as well.

- So was the course
worth it, do you think?

- Definitely.

I loved it.

It's, as I said it, it
formed a lot of my thinking.

It was a challenging time.

I think anytime you're working full time.

I was managing a lot of people

and a big growth story for RACV.

We were purchasing a lot of resorts

and sample a lot of new businesses.

But also doing night school
for a period of time.

It's challenging.

And I think you're always
gonna go through your life

and you want those challenges.

Can I do it again? (laughs)

- Do it again.

Should we start another one now?

- You gotta have the right
mindset and hunger to do it.

And I think anything that's
great though is challenging

and at that time I really wanted to do it

and I focused on doing it
over that four year period.

- Yeah. Nice.

I'm interested in how you
landed on the wellness

and beauty product category

and decided that that's what you wanted

to innovate in, play in.

Why self-tanning?

- I think the, before
we get to self tanning,

I really was engaged to product

and I think when we're
going through Deakin,

there was a couple of colleagues

that were entrepreneurial

and wanted start their own business.

We were talking about it a lot,

and I always had the idea that

product was something
I wanted to get into.

And there's a reason why,

and Warren Buffet talks about a lot,

it's called a Coca-Cola model.

And he says that if you
create an incredible product

through innovation and it's different,

it has a clear customer message,

it's how you replicate that.

It's a repeat cycle.

So I thought it'd be
great to have a product

where we'll be really
innovative for the formula

and we are really
addressing a customer issue,

but we can replicate that globally.

So we use the same formula.

We might have some product profilerization

and have different products within it,

but you really created this
formula that's so unique,

that all you need to do is replicate it

and you can scale it
across the whole world.

And I thought that was an
amazing business model.

So that really, I was
really engaged to that.

I really loved the wellness category,

not necessarily beauty,
I wasn't as engaged,

but wellness, definitely.

And through managing gyms and day spas,

I was always connected to that.

My business partner, who's a good friend,

who I met in Port Melbourne, had a salon,

and he was doing a lot of spray tans.

And it was at the time
when I was sort of working

through his project as well,
the wine project at Deakin.

And he mentioned about a lot of people

he had to turn away
because it was so busy.

And he also said, "Well,
they try to turn away

to get a do it yourself product,

but the quality's not there."

And I said to him, I said,
"Oh, it's interesting

about self tan because
my partner at the time,

she was wearing a lot of self tan."

I saw some issues with it,
with a bit of an orange streak.

It would always come off in the sheets.

It wasn't really a great
application or experience.

It smelled a bit funny as well.

- Yeah.

- And I said, "This is
an interesting category."

And he was very entrepreneurial,

and one thing led to
another in terms of, "Okay,

what's the thinking around this?

How can we create this
salon-quality product

that everyone gets this
experience at a day spa

or a salon, a great spray tan,

but how can we give it
to him in their bathroom?

And then really confident
with our process."

So we walked away and
really looked at that

and navigated that and
started the thinking,

"How can we create that?"

And look, the thinking
was really quite simple.

We look back on it, it was
really how do we create a formula

or a product that addresses those issues?

How do we make it affordable?

You know, we noticed
that salon quality spray

and spray tans like $60 for a spray,

so how can we make it
more affordable than that?

And also, how do you scale

that through a placement strategy,

promotional strategy, and over
time build a brand from it?

So that was the thinking.

Didn't have a real business plan then.

But then I started doing that project

and I started putting some pieces together

and I thought, "Mate, we
could really do something.

This category is really exciting."

And we thought it was an opportunity

for the Australian position
to come through as well,

which we noticed that was a gap.

Why hasn't an Australian
brand taken this positioning

of sand, sea, and sun,
which is what we stand for.

And what we're known
for, the iconic Aussie

and the Australian lifestyle.

- Yeah.

- And how can we sort of put
that within a bottle as well?

And I think that really
started the formation

of the business and the brand.

- So interesting.

And so you had that, you saw the...

It's an interesting question.

The question of opportunity
versus do you have a passion

for it versus is there a problem to solve

that means something to you

and then also add onto that innovation.

- Correct.

- Where did the innovation

side of things come through?

'Cause it sounds like you
worked out the business.

- Yes.

- The sort of landscape there
and where it can cut through.

But then how do you then go from that

to, "Well, what do we do here

to make this product any better?"

- Yep. Innovation is
critical in everything.

And I think it's really
about how do you improve

a product or a service or even

a standard workflow in your business.

Innovation's everywhere.

It's just really how
you actually identify it

and create a new value from it.

- Yeah.

- And I always say from
a product developer,

like Blair and myself at the time

and over time you have your own team,

you build a team out of it.

But initially, it was just
Blair and I doing everything.

Will the artists, so we'll say, "Okay,

what is the issue here?"

The dye structure is not right.

Is it something wrong with the formula?

So the active ingredients in tanning,

which is DHA (indistinct).

Is the glycerin right in
terms of moisturization.

Why is it coming off on the sheets?

Well, identifying these problems.

I say, "Why is that
happening in these brands

in the mass market or your
do-it-yourself product

but not happening to
salon quality products?

So where's the breakdown here?"

So what you have to do is
you gotta be really enthused

about solving that issue.

- Yeah.

- And be really passionate by it.

And that's what you do.

You gotta deep dive and
say, "What's going on?"

And then you have to get
the right people around you.

So for us, once we got
those, identify those issues,

you engage the right chemist

to help put those issues in place

and then put the chemistry
behind it to solve that.

And chemists, generally in
product development, won't solve,

won't identify the issue.

So you have to identify as the artist

and then work with the right
chemist in our industry

or whether it's another
issue, might be engineers,

to solve the problem.

So we engaged a chemist

and we believe we solved these problems.

We tested on our family and friends,

some Deakin University students

were on the stage as well, who I knew.

In our apartment,

people just walking through and tanning.

One leg was St. Tropez,
one leg was LA Tan,

we had Bondi Sands.

It was very ad hoc.

- Wowee.

- We had no money. (laughs)

- Yeah.

What a Frankenstein's monster.

A little parade of people.

Yeah. Guinea pigs.

- And then once we were satisfied that

we got somewhere with the formula,

was engaging a manufacturer
and then producing

a product strategy and brand.

And that was a really early
days of Bondi Sands' beginning.

- Interesting.

It's very interesting what you said

before as well about
taking every department

and getting it to focus on a particular,

it's almost like you did that
with the chemist as well.

- Correct.

- Like, here's...

We've identified the
problem we wanna solve.

- Exactly.

- Focus on that.

- Exactly.

- Well, you ended up going,

well, going all in really on your business

with some of your own money.

I think potentially some
of your family's money

a little bit as well.

I guess what made you back yourself?

- I did have an internal confidence

that this was right.

There's a feeling.

And people ask me this question.

I sometimes think it's good
not to understand industry

that well when you go into a
new one, you're not as fearful.

Now if I knew what I know
now about beauty retailing,

the challenges of everything,

you sort of hesitate in doing things.

- It's harder to move, right?
- Yes.

And I think Blair and I

not being in the industry, entering it,

and learning how to learn very
quickly about manufacturing,

chemistry, retail, planograms,
TPRs, all these terms,

we didn't even know what they were,

but we had to learn it pretty quick

to make good decisions

and getting the right people
around us in those early days

to help navigate that as well.

I think that was really important

part of us forming the brand.

And I think overall though,

I had confidence in the product strategy.

I had confidence in the
category, but also loved it.

I was really passionate and
I loved what I was doing

and all I wanted to do
in those early days.

And Caroline King, my boss
at RCV, I think she knew,

I just wanted to finish work

and go back and do Bondi. (laughs)

- Well, I was gonna say,

you were working full-time.

- I was.

And I was balancing that out,

and I was transparent with her.

I said, "Look, I'm
doing this on the side."

And so I was really looking forward

to finishing my day job, coming home

and working pretty much
all hours of the night

to get the brand moving.

At that time, it was still
a two-year transition.

I was working Bondi for two years,

only finished the end of 2014.

And we launched the brand for two years

and we hired out our second staff member.

Then I took the big leap of faith

'cause you've got mortgages,

you remortgaging things,
you're trying to get capital.

Cash flow is a big thing
the first two years,

three years of business,
sometimes 10 years.

Like it's ultimately about
those financial stresses.

And I think though, if
you're really confident,

this is the right pathway.

The fundamentals are lining up.

You have to be all-in.

You can't get to a point in two years in,

you're still not all-in.

So we got to a point where
we we're at a good position

and I really make sure that now

we have to be all-in
completely, financially,

and our work time as well.

- And just to break it down a little bit,

when do you go all-in on something?

So you've been working on
it for a couple of years,

you know, all hours of the night

and you've still got a
full-time job, but like,

when and why do you have
to suddenly go, "All right,

we're collecting the money from wherever

and wherever we can kind of get it.

what do you need for.
- I get asked this

question a bit actually from entrepreneurs

and founders now, still now,

"When's the right time to
transition from a day job

and making this a full-time commitment?"

I think every industry's
a little bit different

based on the capital they
have, allocation they can get,

what it looks like from financially.

But I think for us,

more importantly was if we didn't do it

within those two years,

then we weren't be able
to scale that next level,

and that time we got Priceline,

we're getting repeat purchases.

And I think a metric for me
personally was we had a product

but we didn't have a brand yet.

A brand for us was, I wanted
to see repeat purchasing

from our people, our customers.

And I do, I always tell
entrepreneurs this,

that brand takes a while to get.

And I said at Bondi Sands,
"We really become a good brand

from probably 2020, 2021."

That was like nine years later.

And there was a reasons why for that.

And I can explain that soon.

But ultimately, in the
early days, we had a product

and people were buying for the first time.

But I wanted to see the repeat purchasing.

Are they buying it just because

we had some pretty clever
marketing or are they buying it

'cause they had a great experience
and they've gotta go back

and repeat again?

So we saw a bit of that happening

through Priceline data.

- Right.

- We saw it through our
e-commerce platform,

we've seen repeat purchasing.

I said, "Okay, this is something."

And we got some really good feedback.

Social media was really good for us

to understand our customers
more really closer

to them in terms of feedback.

People are posting about it.

We had this social connection,
and then we felt, "Okay,

now we've got something here

and we can really invest
more in terms of innovation,

scaling the business

'cause we just don't
just have a product here.

I think we're gonna get a brand over time,

and we still don't have a brand,

don't get me wrong, but
we're getting there.

- Interesting.

Yeah.

You see that sort of loyalty

start to build, right?
- Correct. Correct.

- So talk to us a little bit about

how it gets from, you know,

the product that you're creating

to a product on the shelves.

How does that happen?

And it sounds like it was already getting

on the shelves before
that all-in decision.

- Yeah, I think once
you've spent your time,

money and commitment
on producing a product,

some people forget about one

of the most important Ps

is placement strategy or sales strategy.

There's not enough time spent on that.

I think sometimes you gotta
think about that in parallel.

What are you creating
or where's it gonna go?

We did believe there was an opportunity

to create an affordable,
approachable product.

So not the cheapest but not most expensive

into what we call masstige retailers.

So not completely mass
in those early days,

but more masstige.

So it's like the Pricelines of the world,

Boots in the UK, the Ultras in America.

It's got a clear positioning,

and wanna make sure our price
positioning aligned to that

and our brand equity and product decisions

are aligned to that.

So with that in mind, we believe Priceline

and Chemist Warehouse at the time

were probably the right fits for us.

And we were very, I remember
those buyer meetings.

And one decision we did do
really well was bring in

a person for our brand
called Craig Stewart

who worked at Revlon,

who really helped us in terms

of those early days to help prepare us

for the meeting and what
we need to say and not say

and how to position it.

Still though, it was quite a nervous time

for us selling your brand.

And we got some incredible feedback

from Priceline about them.

So just seeing the opportunity, the love,

the packaging, it was
a little bit different.

Loved the name, and they
were really engaged.

What we didn't expect was
them to give us 400 stores

and three or four products
placement within their planogram.

Which is incredible.

But also then, we had that
great news and hang on a second.

- Was it a blessing or a curse?

- Well, and how are we gonna afford that?

You know, we say we're gonna
buy these products (laughs)

because the order we were thinking

was gonna be 10, 15,000 units.

I think it ended up being 50 or 60,000.

It's a lot to support.

And you've got cogs about 200 grand,

then you gotta look at
marketing and promotional fees.

- And you were manufacturing something...

- Yes.

- at that point?

- Yes.
- Right?

- But not that level.
- (indistinct) scale.

- Yeah, exactly.

So we had to turn that
around really quickly

and that led us to speeding things up,

which led to the greatest period

of our business life cycle that far.

Probably the worst.

When we sped everything up,

we launched within Priceline,
we were selling products.

The second batch unfortunately
had a quality control issue.

We pushed innovation in different levels

and we didn't have the
right quality control

in a manufacturing in certain areas.

And unfortunately, that product,

Blair and I were in the
States at the time, actually,

we were celebrating a little bit.

We worked so hard the last two years

and we just wanna have a
week away in Los Angeles.

And all of a sudden, we're
getting these Facebook messages

and Instagram messages that our
products were turning green.

And I was sort of looking, I go,

"How are they turning green?"

And we're getting images
and we're actually seeing

people look a bit green.

Like, "Oh my god, what's going on here?"

Unfortunately, the dye structure

wasn't right and it broke down.

So when they put the tan on,
there was a real strong hint

of green coming through
like Kermit the Frog

we were saying.

- And and it's probably though,
out of all the colours...

- You don't want.

- the people's skin to look.

- You don't want.

"Wicked" wasn't big back then.

- No, it wasn't.
- It wasn't.

- No.

- Not a feature

- Being optimistic about it.

When you did take that dye structure off,

it was brown underneath.

But that was bad.

And we knew it was bad.

So we confronted Priceline

and said, "Look, this is what's happened.

This is the issue.

We need to get back the stock.

We're gonna recall it.

We gonna buy the stock back from you,

we can replace it, but we
need eight weeks to do it."

So look, it was a very stressful time.

You're launching one of
the biggest retailers

in the country, getting a great headstart.

Your first batch has sold
through, your second batch,

quality's no good.

You gotta pull it back.

Financially, brand damage,

a lot of things in that period of time.

I think the good thing
I look back on that,

we confronted it quickly.

We were very honest and transparent.

We actually flew back straight away,

went to the head office.

So this is how we're gonna solve it.

I think they really appreciate it.

Obviously, they're very experienced.

It happens in the categories.

It's obviously maybe not such a new brand,

but they were really supportive of us,

which I found as a great partner.

And we have supported Priceline

and we remained exclusive to them

for 3 1/2 years, four years

for a lot of those reasons in terms

of loyalty both ways and
built a brand with them.

But they believed in us,

and then that really
gave us that next start.

And from there, we obviously
we flourished again.

- It's so interesting
that you had that success

with Priceline, that blessing

and the curse of things selling as well.

You're getting into
the, but you were still

prioritising innovation...

- Correct.

- at the same time to a
point where, you know,

something went wrong,

but also the fact that you
didn't just go, "Oh, well,

whatever's selling is
selling, that's good."

- Exactly.

- "That's great."

I guess how do you...

How do you...

What's your advice to entrepreneurs
starting a new business?

Like once you get that
first wave of success,

what role does innovation still play?

That things don't, you
know, just stop moving.

- Innovation is everything

and not just in product development

across your whole business.

And I think we always had a
principle on our leadership team

that we came to work thinking
about how can we improve it.

It was really important

and our weekly leadership
meetings was really important

for us to have those ideas brought

to the table across all our departments.

But in product development,

you can't just rely on the status quo.

You can't just think, "Okay,

well, it's one good product
that's gonna last forever.

It's really how to continue to improve

that and that process.

And for us, we launched,
over the time at Bondi,

we launched 15 world-first products.

Now we're the first brand to
do sustainability the right way

with the springless pump,

we're the first brand to do tan arrays.

It was a patent formula
that people try to copy.

That's another legal issue.

But we were the first brand

to really push that
category the right way.

And even when we went to
SPF, we were doing things

that people haven't done before.

So that was a culture of the business,

that was our thinking.

And it wasn't just one department.

In product development, for example,

we had what's called a stage gate process.

So we had a key person
from each department

helping that stage gate

in terms of producing the right products.

Because if you actually just
give it to one department,

say, "Produce innovative products,"

well, what does that mean?

So our sales team...

- Innovation department.
- know a lot...

Yeah.

Our sales team know a lot
of the frontal facing,

they're speaking to retailers every day.

It's a lot of innovations
coming from them.

Our marketing department is listening

to our customers every
day and our brand...

So it's really important that you create

that team aspect of innovation.

You know, you don't just pigeonhole

departments of who they are.

And that's where I think the generalist

leaders come out as well.

And people flourish in their

careers when they're thinking like that.

More importantly.

- And one final question on
that sort of Priceline dynamic,

I guess, I know it's in
the Bob Iger book actually.

Like, how did you know

or decide to just own up
to what had happened there?

Because I could imagine
a bit more hesitation

to, you know, admit
fault or wrong, you know,

like anything's gone wrong here

and sort of take ownership
of a big snafu like that.

- We always had a strong
integrity moral compass

in our business as a value.

Always had a rule in our
business that integrity

is first and foremost.

If it's not contractual,

I always said to our team,

"Contractually, that is
part of our business."

We gotta have contracts
for everyone we do.

And if our contract wasn't
done well on our behalf,

we take ownership of that.

But ultimately, I keep people accountable

like a manufacturer and
their contract as well.

And that was really important for us.

But you gotta have an integrity
and a moral compass as well.

And you gotta own up to
when things go wrong.

And actually, Bondi,
from our point of view,

it wasn't we're the brand,

our manufacturer
unfortunately had a QC issue,

but we can't go to our Priceline

and say it was a brand
manufacturer's fault.

We're the brand representing
the manufacturer. (laughs)

So we had to own up to it.

We had to put things in
place with our manufacturer

to ensure that never happened again.

And that's really important.

But you gotta make sure that that's part

of your culture as a group.

That there's no issue speaking up

when something's gone wrong.

And also, just as important
as the people who work

with Bondi understand there's

accountability thing there as well.

If we're paying you or
you're part of our ecosystem

as a brand where you
respect this performance,

you don't deliver on
that, we'll call that out.

We won't hide away from that

and we're not gonna hide away from you

as a partner as well.

I think it's really important.

- Yeah, you lead by example.

- Yeah, exactly.

- So, overall, what did you learn

from your Bondi Sands experience?

Was it everything that, you know,

the young entrepreneur
in you had dreamed up

and always wondered?

- Definitely.

I also learned some things

that really helped my
own personal development.

And look, we lived overseas
for a period of time.

I lived in the UK all up
for close to a couple years,

America as well.

It's very lonesome being an entrepreneur,

you're in your thinking a lot,

not just living in hotels

and from country to country,

which I know sounds fantastic,

but you've got your own thoughts a lot.

And you're thinking about,
"Okay, how do I continue

to produce the brand we want?"

And when you're an entrepreneur,

you got this mindset of it's not winning.

It's "Oh, okay, how can
we be the best we can be?"

And when you've still got that mindset

and you deliver that through
your leadership team,

I was just blessed at Bondi Sands,

and I've said this multiple times.

One thing I did really
well at Bondi Sands,

if I look at myself as a leader,

I hired just incredible people

and our leadership team who started

as a financial manager became our CFO,

our brand manager became our CMO,

my HR manager became our CPO.

They grew with us 10 years.

And they're incredible people.

They came into my wedding,
they close part of my life

and we just formed the
most beautiful culture

to produce this brand

and learn a lot about
people over that time

and how important those connections are.

And not just internally,

but also the partners you'll have,

whether it's in retail partners,

in terms of relationships

with Boots and (indistinct) drug in the UK

or Douglas in across
Europe or Ulta or Walmart

or Walgreens in America.

You meets some incredible people across,

and you'll learn from them as well.

And they've got a shared commitment

of being the best they can be

for their retail group
or for their customers.

But you got a shared vision,

you got a shared vision
and creating value.

And I think we had a
great message at Bondi

that we will be delivering

this incredible tan, the safe way,

where we're mindful of
skin health as a business,

especially damages that
solariums are doing in Australia,

which were banned in 2013,
'14 across Australia.

The damage that sun does do over time

and how do you actually tan the safe way

and then how does that
make sense to our brand

for SPF and skincare over time?

So we had a really strong
message for our retail partners.

We thought this was a really good category

to start promoting and getting behind.

And it was wonderful to create
those shared business plans

and thinking with so many great people

across those countries.

- Last year, you won an
Alumni Excellence Award

from Deakin University for leadership

and ethical approach to business.

I guess, what makes a good leader?

- I've mentioned a few points around that.

I definitely believe
transparency is really important.

The clarity of thinking
and strategic focus

from a business sense is
vital and personal connection.

I think great leaders definitely
show some vulnerability,

they're transparent

but also they create personal connection.

They're curious.

Some of the best leaders I've ever had,

they're just curious
of you and the person,

not just your professional development,

your personal side as well.

I think that's really important.

I know people say, "Oh,
leaders have to be careful

in terms of that mix."

I disagree.

I think as a leader,

if you don't care for your
employee or your customers

or colleagues or cross partners

and not just professionally
and personally,

I don't think you're being

all authentic to yourself as a leader.

And I think we had some
great leaders showing

those skill sets across Bondi,

and it was demonstrated in our retention.

Like, I think you can say
you got a strong culture,

but really, I look at it from
a retention point of view.

And we are at a retention like 85, 90%,

and even over COVID, which
we had a lot of shifts

and changes across those times,

we had such a strong retention
rate across our business.

And I still look at it
now looking back on it.

We launched a product,

the express product at Coachella.

World-first product, amazing event.

We had 55 staff come into
our office in Port Melbourne

because we launched in America

at 11 o'clock at night to watch it.

Like that's a culture who care

and they wanna see it.

So that's what I think good leaders do.

They don't just look at
the transactional side

of the P&L, which ultimately
is important in terms

of achieving results
and having the financial

profitability to continue to grow.

But you're looking at all these

different metrics in your company,

'cause I'm telling you,
those inputs over time

will create the outputs
that you want as a business.

And I think great
leaders really understand

those inputs better than anyone.

And they know that long
term they're creating

the right value and those
outputs will happen.

And that could be
innovation, new products,

more profit, more revenue.

But if you just focus on that

and not really focus on this,
you're not gonna get there.

I think great leaders understand that.

- Yeah, yeah.

Really good point.

You invest in them and they
invest in you and your business.

Some of the other values
that I think have driven you,

and you mentioned it a little bit earlier,

is one of them is sustainability as well

as Australian manufacturing
being, you know,

something that you prioritised.

Talk a little bit about
how those played a role in

how you innovated at Bondi.

- Yeah, hugely important for
us, even in the early days,

Blair and I are looking at manufacturing,

not just being Australian-made

but also looking at our supply chain.

It's great being Australian-made,

but also to be mindful of
when you've got a supply chain

that's quite complex where
your green's coming from.

So how do we improve that?

How do we get more local
resources for that?

How do we reduce our
carbon footprint in terms

of sea freight and air freight?

So thinking through that in
your business a bit more,

I think sometimes you might have

the more aesthetic sustainability.

People say, "I meant this and that,"

but you look behind the cracks and go,

"Well, are you really doing that?

And what are your business around it?"

So we had a real focus on that.

And even through our
innovation it was really about

how would we be 100%
recyclable with our products.

And I think the biggest sticky point

we had was our foaming pumps.

We always had a spring and we're looking

for innovation across the world.

And unfortunately, we
didn't have it in Australia.

The engineer wasn't
here, he was in Germany.

But we found that person,

and that's great when
it's a globalised company,

you can actually have these connections.

And then we got that
innovation, we purchased it,

and we brought it back to Australia

and the first company to
do it across foaming pumps,

which made it 100%
recyclable as a component,

which is our number one product as well.

And then how do we take that

through our brand positioning and story?

And a big part of our
culture is our beaches

and how do we do that for our
Take 3 to the Sea campaign

and cleaning our beaches

and how does that look like
from our internal workforce

and what we do globally,

but also how we support
that campaign financially

and also from a message point of view.

And it made sense for our brand,

which is really important I think as well,

is it that we're really
pledged around our beaches

and from a content point of view,

our lifestyle point of view,

and we integrate that well in terms

of our positioning as a company.

- Sounds like you use every lever

possible from innovation...

- Correct.

- to, yeah.

Using the values of the company.

And you left Bondi in 2024.

- '24.

- Yeah.

So you sold it off.

- '23.

- Yeah.

- Explain, well, explain why

and how that came about.

- Sure.

Bondi and I have been public this now

and I can be,

we had an interest in that
company from the early days.

And we were growing very quickly

and became number one self-tanning brand

in Australia within three years,

UK within two years
when we launched there,

in America eventually.

So number one in the world
in terms of Nielsen data.

So we became number one
by 2019, but even in 2017,

we had offers for the company,

and they were really strong offers.

And anything, you obviously look at it

and go, "Well, hang on,
that looks pretty good.

I never thought I would've
got offered that much."

But we weren't ready,

and we had so much we wanted
to achieve as a business.

We wanted new categories to launch.

We wanted to decentralise our
business out a little bit more

in the country markets.

We had some ideas around how we actually

have more of a centralised
HQ in terms of innovation,

decentralised marketing,
sales and country.

So there was things we
just wanted to achieve

from product to strategy through people.

So, but we had so many offers coming

through from left, right
and centre. (laughs)

- And can I just ask like, you know,

for the average person,

I'm sure seeing an offer
figure come through.

- Yeah. So this...

- How do you work out not right now

and know the risk that that
could be smaller next time,

that could, depending on what you do,

and what does that say about, you know,

whether you know that
you're a true entrepreneur

or not, that you've still
got things you wanna do?

- Well, you don't really know,
like I can be open to this.

Well, for close to a 100, 150 million

of those two years we're only
four years, five years in,

that was a lot in 2017, '18.

And look, we thought, "Well, hang on,

we've never ever thought
we going to be that much."

- Yeah.

- But we're thinking,
again, and come back to it,

we're not the outputs, the inputs,

like we've got so much to achieve here.

We wanna hire more
people in certain areas.

We've got so much better
we wanna do in marketing

and product development,

got these categories
innovation coming out.

We wanna set up a business
entity in America.

We've still got to go to
Walmart, (indistinct).

Like, there's so many inputs here,

and more importantly,

we were just loving it, and
our team were loving it,

and we weren't tired,
we weren't burnt out.

Which is really important as well.

I think sometimes you can do

things for a certain period of time.

I think the longest life of a
CEO in a company is like five,

six years, really, on average.

And I think sometimes
it's hard to be long term

in terms of travelling,
driving, and building.

And also it gets to a point where,

where do you think as a private company

that you might need outside capital

or support from a bigger company
to take it to a new level.

- Yeah.

- And that's a really important part

of your decision-making

'cause really it's
about saying what's best

for the customers long
term and your brand.

And that point came through,
we believe that COVID period

and were represented by our
advisors in the Citi Group,

and they were very professional
throughout the whole process

and COVID hit and that was quite

an interesting time obviously for everyone

and in business but more
importantly life and health.

And we had to navigate that.

Like everyone.

In Victoria's even more challenging

with manufacturing and what
that looked like for us

in terms of do we have to close it down

or how can we keep it open?

So we had a supply chain around the world.

So it was a very challenging time

and every market was different.

America, under their leadership,

was very different in terms

of people being out and buying

and Australia were different to the UK.

So I was really navigating that.

- Yeah.

- And the cultures were different
in terms of how do they...

So, yeah, we had to navigate that,

and we thought we wanted
to get through that period

and we believed after the business settled

and it was still growing very strongly,

that was probably right
now to go through more

of a formal process.

And I think we never went
through a formal process.

It was very informal.

We're looking at it,

but then we saw, "Okay,
let's do a formal process."

And a formal process is you need

to appoint a team of accountants,

a team of legal and your advisory group.

And it's very, it is very expensive.

You gotta be very mindful when
you're selling your business.

It's not something you just think lightly.

There's a lot of confidentiality.

So, unfortunately, you can't
tell your whole business

you're doing it.

You only tell a select few just
based on the confidentiality

because it might not happen either.

You're not really to disrupt the culture.

And then obviously if
you're telling people

how much information can they
know, what it looks like.

And also making sure operating-wise

you still focused on the business.

Selling a company at our level

takes 12 to 18 months as well.

So it's not a short process.

There's a lot of due
diligence, a lot of RFIs,

which is an acronym for
request for information

and a lot of lawyers, a lot
of accountants. (laughs)

- It just sounds like...

It sounds like a funeral
or something like that,

that you don't really know how to,

you know, you don't know the
cottage industry of people

and terms and things you need to deal with

until something happens
and then the world opens up

and you're like, "Oh, boy."

- And we were very lean compared,

like we had 140 staff at
the end, but still very lean

when comparing to these
multinationals with market caps

of 20 billion plus with 30,000 staff plus.

And when we went to some of these sessions

with these potential buyers
and it was just myself

and maybe my COO and maybe one other,

and they've got 17 people on the line,

and they're just drilling us.

Lucky we've been
interviewed, ' cause like...

And I think the most important
thing in those scenarios is,

which I'm so proud of my team,

is how much we knew about our business.

It was just incredible.

Like about how much they could ask us,

we could actually respond

and we knew the ins and outs of it,

which was really strong
for us in that process.

And that's really important.

You gotta be very prepared.

And because they'd look
for things you might not

and you learn a lot what they do look at,

there's risk and even
fundamentals of trademarking.

I look back and like,

"Did we do that right back in 2013?

Like, did we make a right decision there?

Did I actually tick that box right?"

'Cause trademarking is critical

and only owning your formal is

and how that looks on
IP and all these things.

You go, "Hang on.

I actually made a very
good decision there,

but I didn't realise I did it."

So now, on my next career stage is,

I want to help founders with that

and how they scale their companies

and the lessons I sort
of looked at and learnt

and making sure we make
good decisions early

'cause it does help
that process eventually.

But yeah, it was a very
challenging period.

Probably, I think it was probably

one of the most stressful periods

I've had in Bondi was selling
my business at the end.

Yeah.

- What was it like when you
got to that point in '23

where it was done?

- People ask me this question.

I actually got very emotional.

I still remember it.

We signed off at 1:30 in the morning.

They had their advisors there.

We had our advisors in the
call, we signed off at it.

The president and myself
cheered each other over Zoom.

She was based in Cincinnati.

And, but when I got emotional,

it wasn't really then, it
was a bit of a relief then.

I actually got emotional with what I had

to do from a technicality point of view.

For some reason, I had to email this group

and saying, "Now, I
pass over the business."

It was like a formality
thing, not just sign it.

But now I pass over the business

so they can access everything.

And I had to send this email that day,

and I just delayed it. (laughs)

And I had it in my inbox,

and I said, "Tess, I have to send this."

And (indistinct) I get emotional now.

And I sent it, and I was
just really emotional

because I just knew then it was 100%

we sold the company, it was gone.

And even I still played
a role for the next year

as CEO in transition.

It was just really emotional for me

because I reflected on every
moment, every event, every win,

every challenge we had
throughout that period.

And to give it up was hard.

But also people say, "Oh,
obviously the big payday."

I think that's one thing you
also need to know as well.

Like, yes, it's a numbers on a screen.

I see it.

You just look at it.

Yeah. Cool.

It doesn't give you the same fulfilment

as your business does, and yes,

it gives you the next chapter
to do what you wanna do.

- They're quite big numbers as well.

- Yeah, big numbers.

- It's pretty hard to, sort of process.

Right?
- Yes.

It is hard to process,

but I still look at it
as numbers on a screen

and they're big numbers
and obviously it gives you

the security to do things you
wanna do in your next chapters

of your life, but it
doesn't give you fulfilment.

And I think it's really important
that people realise that

as well, is that you're chasing that maybe

that figure if you are.

But it's really important
that you understand that

what you do and what you
love is so, so critical.

And I'm really looking forward

to jumping in back in
the industry very soon.

And because that's what I love to do,

and I'm very excited about it as well.

- And just quickly, what did
Bondi Sands end up selling for?

- Yes, so it has been
reported in the media

a little bit off around 450.

It was a little bit less than that,

a couple of percent less than that.

But it was a very strong price

from a capital point of view for us.

But ultimately, it was
probably the right price

for us in terms of our growth.

There's not many brands in the world

that are privately owned doing close to,

we were going close to $200 million

in revenue at the end.

- Wow.
- So, I think

we got a fair multiple.

There's been some huge
multiples in the beauty industry

and I think that's one
thing to look at as well.

Your category industry,
what multiples are there?

In beauty, for example,
Drunk Elephant sold

for a nine on revenue,

Sun Bum six on revenue, Road,

I think sold for recently four on revenue.

So there's some big multiples.

Hero sold on like a seven
multiple just recently

to Church & Dwight.

So I think a lot of
beauty, they look at that

because the great thing about
a great brand is really, okay,

that's a lifetime 100, 150-year brand.

So these multinationals see that,

and for them, they can't
create that necessarily.

They're not great creators
of brands generally.

History shows that.

They're generally are very good

at purchasing a brand a certain level

and then growing it
through their ecosystem.

So those multinationals

and even big private equity
these days are very competitive

in sales process to be
looking for the right brands,

the right category at
the right revenue matrix.

And every business is a bit different.

So if you are a business at 10 million,

you'd be attracted to a certain PE,

50 million different layer.

Generally, multinational,

you wanna be over 100 million dollars.

They won't look at you if
you're not doing 100 mil.

And that's when the multinationals
will start looking at it

from a acquisition point of view.

And we're blessed that Bondi was doing...

I think the great thing about Bondi Sands

as a brand as well, which
made us very attractive,

was that our revenue was equally shared

across three continents,

which is quite unique.

So we had pretty much 33%
each at US, UK, Europe,

and Australia, New Zealand.

So that's very unique and
that just shows the strength

that brand resonated in three continents.

- Yeah.

- And that definitely
has that differentiation

in terms of the buyer space as well.

- Yeah.

That is such an amazing achievement,

and it's amazing that you
were able to build something

and build it and grow it to that point

up to that point...

- Exactly.

- without getting acquired or snapped up

or I don't know, competed
with off the landscape.

- No.

And I reminded all of our staff throughout

that journey when we sold of that point.

There's not many, obviously
there's some great stories

with Aesop recently in Australia,

but it was pretty much
owned by private equity.

So a little bit different...

I've heard first Swiss was privately held,

which was a great story as well,

but not many brands, if
you look in the three

or four in the history of the country.

So I said to our team
that you remember that,

that's what you've done.

And I see those people
and who are now staying on

in certain senior positions
within our new owner,

but also they've moved away now

and created these senior
leadership roles and CEOs

or leaders of other brands,
which is incredible.

Or some of 'em have created
their own brands as well,

which is fantastic to see.

So it's great to see
that they've developed

and they're doing so many great things

in the business as well.

- Well, let's talk
about that next chapter.

So firstly, bit of family
time, I'm assuming after this?

- Yes.

- Was it the first time in a while

that you got to sort of think about

your life outside of work?

- And that was great.

As I said, I travelled on
average six months of the year,

lived overseas a lot, to be present,

to spend time with my daughter, my wife.

We finished building a house,

setting up a few other things personally

from an investment point of view,

it was a really good period of
18 months to reset, recharge.

And again, putting some
principles in place

about the right people

for the next stage where it's
through my investment side

of property development
now, private equity,

and what I'm doing in terms

of that next career move as well.

I think that was really good for me

to start forming that team as well.

And that takes a bit of time.

So I've really enjoyed that.

But now I'm pretty ready

to go on to the next chapter as well.

- Well, talk about that next chapter.

What is next?

- Yeah, so one of the
investment arms I have,

which is gonna be my real focus

is a company called Sol Rise,

which is a private equity
and specialises in beauty

and wellness and looking at
brands that have the certain DNA

that represent the values that
really Bondi had to a degree,

but also can scale.

So I'm looking at brands in
Australia and New Zealand,

I should say Australian, New Zealand made,

and that's one of my investment criterias.

They've gotten to a certain level.

Now, the certain level could
be a financial metric or not.

It's really about, okay, can this brand

have the right founder and
leadership team to scale,

not just within Australia but overseas.

So, Sol Rise will become
involved in that company

and help them do that and deliver that.

And that founder vision.

And I'm really excited by that

because I thought when I
sold Bondi, that process,

I noticed private equity,

which are some extremely talented

people in private equity,
don't get me wrong.

But I think that saw a bit
of a gap in terms of beauty.

And I thought you know, it'd
be great to have a product

that really specialises
in consumable beauty.

That has the knowledge and done it

before, not just a banker.

Now, no disrespect against bankers,

but who's actually done it before

and understands the how to scale a brand

and what to look for in a brand.

So I'm really excited by that.

And I really met some wonderful
founders at different levels

from startup to some bigger brands.

And now it's making the right decisions

in terms of partnering.

Our philosophy is quality of quantity.

So we're not gonna be venture capital

and just giving money to multiple brands.

It's really about a few brands

and really be integrated with them

and help them where they
need help and support.

And obviously, let them be

where they really are
really strong at as well.

And that's a really important
part of the partnership,

which we are looking at.

So really excited by
that and hoping to launch

that within the next four to six months.

- Very exciting.

- Yes.

- That's so cool.

And talking about mentorship,

who mentored you along the way,

especially with your Bondi Sands journey?

- Yes. Three people.

I mentioned a couple
already from RACV days,

Caroline King and Rebecca Arcuri,

two wonderful leaders, managers,

incredible work ethic, great values,

very strong in terms of
customer-centric practises,

always customer first in
the way they look at things.

And I think that was really strong for me,

especially when they had a strong

hospitality background as well.

And then for Bondi, it was Craig Stewart,

who really helped form in terms of that

new category industry.

And he was great.

For the first few years,

I'd ring Craig up at 11
o'clock at night or 12:00.

He'd answer it.

I don't know why he did,
but he did. (laughs)

- Wow.

- And we spoke and he gave me feedback

and he was such a great person to have.

And then over time, I think
the curiosity was always there

and extra reading.

Like, I was a bit of way,
so I'm bit of a nerd,

but I would get annual
reports from the big guys,

like Unilever, L'Oreal, and
read what their strategy was.

And understand it more
and buy things from them

and really see how they're thinking.

So I was always very curious on that.

And that mentorship led to Bondi

in terms of our programme internally

and how we'd do it for
our leaders and our staff.

And then for me, it's now
about how do I take that

to a new level as well.

And part of that with
Sol Rise is I really want

to help bring this programme in for people

not as fortunate as myself.

And I was very fortunate.

I had a great education.

I've been lucky to be trained
by some great corporates

and obviously now part of
a great company in Bondi.

So very fortunate and I'm
extremely grateful for that.

And some people aren't as fortunate,

they're just not lucky as we
are or myself in particular.

So how do I help them with the basic needs

of forming a business?

Whether it's computer
skills or forming brands.

And there's a lot of
people who are passionate,

interested by it,

they just don't have the
right resources or direction.

So I'm hoping Sol Rise can
help bridge that gap as well.

And we're looking to do that
part of the business as well.

- Yeah. Nice.

And finally, what about for you?

Is there another Bondi Sands like thing

that you wanna do in
your life from a product

and brand perspective?

Or is it all mostly about
helping others achieve

something for them?
- No.

So, yeah, it's a good question, Dom.

Sometimes I think about
doing another startup,

it gives me a few chills. (laughs)

But...
(Dom laughing)

No.

There's a couple ideas.

There's one in particular
that I'm really excited by

that I want Sol Rise
to be the brand owners

of and develop it.

And it's a category I've
been looking at for a while.

So that's definitely part of the business.

And look, I love consumables.

I've got a good network in
now in terms of some knowledge

and it's something I'm passionate by.

And, but also I'm just as excited

by partnering with some founders as well

and seeing their passion,

excitement for growing their own brands.

There's some wonderful people out there

who are doing some incredible things,

and I think they're just
sometimes, like anything,

it's how do we go overseas?

Where to start?

Or how do we scale this
part of the business?

And I think when you've got
a good group around people

like that and you have those discussions,

it gives people a sense of confidence.

And I think confidence is so important.

I always look at those things,

and if you just say, if words
are very powerful for founders

and if you give people the right direction

and confidence, they'll go for it.

They just need that reinforcement
sometimes or direction.

And I'm hoping Sol Rise and myself

can help that over the next chapters

of these businesses as well.

All right, we're at the end nearly here.

But just some quickfire,
wrap-up questions...

- Fire away.

- to finish on.

Well, have you ever
gotten a bad spray tan?

- I have.

And I love...

- Was it for research or was it?

- No, I loved a spray tan

and I did get a few bad ones.

I'm actually, people laugh at me

'cause I'm actually very pasty

and I used to get spray tans a lot

and I was really good skin tone

for that light medium product,

but I have had some bad
ones, some bad experiences

and not through Bondi.

- No, of course not.
(Shaun laughing)

I cannot stress that enough.

- It's, no, I think it's very important

as a product owner/founder,
I know it's a given,

but you gotta understand your product,

you gotta use it.

And Blair and I, even to the end,

we would be completely across the product

in terms of exactly we
put it on a paper towel,

we put on different skins,

we get our staff to come
in through the smell,

the formula direction.

We knew it from a percentage level.

And that was really, every product we did,

and that was really important
for us as product owners.

- Yeah.

All across it.

Did you ever get to meet Kylie Jenner

when you did the collab with her?

- I met Chris.

- Oh.

- So not Kylie.

- Okay.

- I met Kris, she was the
business representation

and still is to a degree, I think.

- The “Momager”.

- Yeah.

But she was very impressive,

very professional, very impressive.

But I never met Kylie,

but she did a wonderful post for us

and went quite viral for us.

Not just within socials

but in third-party publications as well.

And, but no, that was a
really good experience

working with her and her management

and it was very seamless.

I think now it might be
a little bit different

in terms of how many
brands they've created

and what that looks like in
terms of ambassador role.

But that time in 2018 though,

she was quite a strong ambassador,

but only for products she liked.

And that was really
important for us as well

in terms of credibility and trust.

- Yeah.

- For our customers.

And we're not just giving it to anyone in

terms of posting about it.

People who genuinely love our brand.

And she used our brand

before we actually approached her.

- Wow. That's huge.

- She used it through, I don't know,

I can't recall this, I
might get this wrong,

it's either Kendall have used it

or one of her friends, I
can't remember her name,

but it was a good friend of the,

who's also a social media girl,

but introduced Kylie to the product,

and that sort of led the relationship

and the commercial side of it quite,

it was quite seamless

because she's used
before and she loved it.

- Yeah.
- Yeah.

- What a huge endorsement.

- Yeah.

- And finally, why Bondi Sands

and not like St. Kilda
Beach Sands or something?

- Good question, Dom.

It's all about brand and markings

and it, when you ask that question,

like we couldn't call it Port Melbourne

or St. Kilda Tan.

Doesn't have the same ring to it? Does it?

But from international branding,
marketing, Bondi Sands,

the iconic Australian lifestyle,
the beach positioning.

We thought it was the right name for us

to define the brand, and no,

it's obviously it's got a
special place in our heart

and even though we didn't
have an office there,

we spent a lot of our year
planning, strategic plans,

vacations there with the team.

We had a lot of personal
development there at Bondi.

And a lot of the time, our
employees from overseas,

when they came, we actually
did our business planning

and team bonding in Bondi,

which is obviously the
iconic part of our brand.

- Yes. Immerse them.

- Yes. Exactly.

- Yeah. Induct them.

- Yes.

- Yeah.

Well, Shaun Wilson, thanks
so much for chatting

to us on "Stories of Wonder."

- Pleasure.

Thank you, Dom.

That's it for this episode of Stories of Wonder.

If you enjoyed it,
you can like and subscribe.

You can also join the conversation
by leaving a comment below.

You can learn more about this story
through the links in the description,

and for more conversations like this,
check out the full series on YouTube

or on your favorite podcasting platform.

See you next time!

More episodes

Chapters

What is Stories of Wonder?