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Are you ready to take the steps necessary to thrive? Join us every episode as host Adam Gragg discusses what is holding us back and how to move forward with purpose, along the way developing healthy relationships and navigating life transitions while overcoming fear, stress and anxiety. Adam is a family therapist, mental health professional and life coach helping individuals and organizations find the transformational clarity that unleashes hope. Live the life you want, the legacy you decide.
Ep127
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Adam Gragg: [00:00:00] So in this episode, I had my friend Brent Coppock, licensed professional counselor on the episode, and it was such a great conversation about relationship building actions that I decided to split it up into two episodes. I think you're going to find this tremendously helpful and inspiring. Enjoy.
So it's amazing the things that we remember. [00:01:00] I can think of a time not too long ago when I was with a group of people. One of them's name was Emerson. One of them's name was Dave. And we were getting ready to go on a hike. And some people in the group wanted to go on the hikes and people didn't want to go on the hike.
Eventually we went on the hike and we made it to the very top. And it was a great experience. And, but I think back on that and think, well, we could have given in to attitudes that didn't want to go on the hike and we would never had this experience. And now we look back and we say, this is really great and positive.
We have pictures, things. That's what happens with relationships. You don't know. There are certain actions you can take that build relationships, certain actions you don't take that aren't going to help, certain actions you can take that can hurt relationships. And we're going to talk about that today. So this is episode 126 of the Decide Your Legacy podcast.
This is called Relationship Building Actions. And I'm your host, Adam Gragg. I'm a coach, family therapist, speaker, mental health professional for over [00:02:00] 25 years. I help people find clarity. The clarity needed to face their biggest fears. and to live, to live their legacy. I talk about stuff I struggle with myself.
I don't have it all figured out. I'm a fellow traveler. I have a special guest today. His name is Brent Kopik, and he's been a friend of mine for, I think, close to probably 25 years. ~Yeah. Long time. Yeah. Long time. ~Long time. He is a licensed professional counselor who I believe has extraordinarily unique abilities to help teams and families and people and I want to give him a chance to introduce himself So tell us about yourself, your family, all this stuff that you think would be a good intro here.
Brent Coppock: Yeah, so Millie and I have been married for over 24 years. ~I just married. I want to say Happily married. ~I love her more today than the day we were married and as we'll get into it, it takes work ~To, ~to be able to say that hard work and, we have five kids.
We have three, we're adoptive families, so we have biological sons. And then our daughters have been with us [00:03:00] for a little over 10 years now.
Adam Gragg: And how old's your oldest?
Brent Coppock: He is 23. ~Oh ~
Adam Gragg: ~man. ~Okay. ~Yeah. ~And how old's your youngest?
Brent Coppock: She is 13 going on 23.
Adam Gragg: She's, she is something else. She's pretty fun. You have a big, a big mixture of personalities there as well.
Brent Coppock: Broad, broad spectrum. Yeah.
Adam Gragg: So, okay. It's pretty easy to pinpoint who talks the
Brent Coppock: Yes. Yeah. There's one. ~That's, that's right.~
Extroverted in our family.
There's just one? Okay.
Adam Gragg: Yeah. So, and then what about your career and things that have happened recently for you? ~Cause it's been a lot of changes.~
Brent Coppock: Yeah. So, you know, you've walked with me through a lot of this and was a sounding board for as I was trying to decide what to do. I just graduated in December with my master's in counseling from the Townsend Institute.
It was A little over, I don't know, 10, 12 year process by the time I went all the way through school and then masters and then I [00:04:00] retired from my job of 35 years at the end of May. And so now, I just have one job.
Adam Gragg: That's crazy.
Brent Coppock: And yeah.
Adam Gragg: 35 years. Okay. So, wow. And it was a 12 year process to get your ~Yeah, it~
Brent Coppock: was about, yeah, 10, 12 years.
Wow. ~Something like that.~
Adam Gragg: How did you not give up when it's such a long process?
Brent Coppock: Yeah, that's a great question. I think a lot of it was just truly believing that this is what I was, ~you ~supposed to do. I just saw through this, you know, as I processed through it, every step of the way, I would see it.
But there was a lot of times where, ~yeah, ~it did get discouraging and overwhelming and I think, ~yeah, ~just being able to rely on, you know, friends like you, my wife, I mean, ~yeah, yeah, ~I couldn't have done it without her and her believing too that this is what we're supposed to do because it was definitely a team effort.
Adam Gragg: And those are like polar opposite careers, like an engineer to a, you know, to a counselor. Yeah. Things to people, right? [00:05:00] Yeah. That's crazy. So, so you went and got your bachelor's degree in a field that related to counseling and then also got your master's. Yeah. Okay. Cool. Very cool. So, all right. I want to share some uncomfortable today that I did recently because I do that because nothing's more important in my opinion to Mental health, great mental health is then facing your fears and nothing's more damaging than playing it safe.
So I did something that I've probably put off for a long time and I ended up deciding to get off the panel of the last insurance company on the panel for, starting in 2025. ~So, ~Clients that are listeners, whatever we got to do to make things happen, you know, transition I'm here for you. That's just what I'll tell you right now.
So, but that was scary because it's burning the boat, you know, it's like, I mean, that's not the primary source of like revenue at all, but it's still like this safety blanket. And then I even asked them, I said, can I get back on someday if I want? They said, yes, you can for sure. But anyway, I've burned the boat.
That's still scary. It's a big step. [00:06:00] And so that, that's it for me. Anything you've done, You'd say last it's been kind of scary, Brent? ~Yeah, ~
Brent Coppock: Well, this right here is way outside my comfort zone. ~Yeah. ~Yeah. Being an introvert. ~And I just, I was thinking about it though. ~I remember a talk you did, man, it's probably 10 years ago.
I don't even know about who's your monkey. You remember that? Oh yeah. And so like, I'm here with my monkey, Adam. That's right. So this, it's not as scary.
Adam Gragg: That's exactly right, man. I'm like thinking this is great. ~That's really cool. Cause, and that is like, ~we've put this off for a long time. Cause I mean, we've talked about counseling stuff, helping people for, for a long time.
I mean, that's just, so it's really fun. So anyway, we're gonna like have you right now take an action. Cause you know, I like you to start off uncomfortable as well. So what is a relationship that you want to make some progress? And okay, with, so is it a team that you lead? Is it a, a family relationship? Is it a friendship, something that you want to make some progress?
And as we go through this, this podcast on relationship building actions, you're going to unpack [00:07:00] that and think about that as well. So go ahead and write that down, speak it into your phone. I'm sure it just comes to mind for you. It's probably not very hard because I mean, we all have some relationship. I would think that we want to make some progress on.
So for me, what I'm doing here is I'm thinking about. As I go through this, my relationship with my siblings, okay? So I have a brother and a sister, and I think this content relates to both of them, and it's one of those areas where I have good relationships with them, but I'd like to have better, and we can work on it.
So fear facing is a main core value of Decide Your Legacy, and I discussed that in the last couple episodes of the Decide Your Legacy podcast. Now, connection building is another core value of Decide Your Legacy. When you build that ~connection, ~Connection with other people and take action to do that and you start feeling a level of trust You are going to have less stress.
You're gonna feel healthier You are going to be energized because all that energy that was going towards the dynamics in those relationships is gonna go towards Creativity which we're all designed to [00:08:00] create to make the world better. ~You know, ~you're gonna find healing in all of that relationship because as those ones get healthier, you're going to realize that, you know, I can trust people that I didn't think I could trust ~and you were hurting relationships.~
And so you're going to be healed and by having new information and data, I find that all my best ideas come from other people. I just borrow them and tweak them. I mean, really the people I talked to the clients that I've experienced and been able to have, you know, walk with all the stuff and it doesn't have to be perfect.
I mean, my idea is. These are refined as I have the other people to help me refine them really amazing thing. So we have three essentials today that you want to keep in mind as you take healthy relationship action with the goal of building healthier relationships. ~Okay. So, and what I'm going to do with this podcast, I did a very similar approach when I interviewed my dad.~
~On his wisdom and a lot of that relates to business sales. ~So I'm going to go ahead and discuss what those essential things are and then Brent's going to feed and fill and kind of fill in the ideas because I don't really have any ideas.
I can come up with the concepts. He can actually make it actually work and stick. So, he is really good at that. So, the first [00:09:00] essential is safety. And this is really interesting because about a decade or more ago, Brent and I, we were both, well, he was really interested in this stuff back then. And so, I was working in the profession already, and I went to this training called prep with him.
And we learned a whole bunch of cool things that was in, you know. Oklahoma, right? Yeah. Yeah. And it was about helping basically families and you can bring it back. And it was a lay person's type training. So anyone could go through it. But one of the principles that they talked about was make it safe to connect.
I mean, this isn't something that I necessarily got from that training. ~I just got more information and really helpful information. ~So make it safe to connect. That's about trust. And you think of ways that you can engage other people that make it feel safe. So, I found this book helpful recently called The Culture Code by Dan Coyle, and there was a study referenced in this book about, and Stanford did this, which Stanford University has some cool studies, you know, that's, but there's other universities that do as well.
But they study people's email exchanges to find any [00:10:00] patterns of interaction that lead to good, healthy indication of good, healthy, strong relationships and ones that lead to erosion of teams.
This is all professional and what they measured and they found was ~that. And I, you can check out the study yourself in the book, but it's ~that the more they talk about sports and kids and family, and actually the more cuss words in the emails, the better the team functions. What that shows you is that they're not cussing at each other, but they're showing an indication of trust between the parties.
Comfort, exactly. Yeah, exactly. So, so, so say when you don't feel safe, you shut down. When you feel safe, you end up opening up, you let your guard down. You know, just yesterday, one of my other really super close friends was telling me about a situation that he experienced once at a workplace where things were always held over your head when you made a mistake, right?
And it threatened that you could, it could come back and get you, or even that, like, we might do something with this information or we might not. And I was telling him, I said, well, you know, when you're in a situation at a company where they have, they utilize your mistakes against you, you'll never win in [00:11:00] that environment.
Because they'll always find a reason to get rid of you, right? They'll always be able to find and twist something to say, ~and I mean, ~my advice to some people in companies is to run, ~like ~get out as soon as you possibly can, because this is a culture that is not going to change because of you. I mean, it's structural, ~and it's, ~And at the very top, there's this threat that we can do whatever the hell we want to you.
Because we run the company, we employ you, and we'll twist it to make it fit our narrative, whatever it is. That is not safe. I mean, you will never find psychological safety in that kind of environment. ~So as you go through this, think about this, and so think about this concept. ~So what do you believe, Brent, causes people to feel unsafe with others?
And why is it so important, you know?
Brent Coppock: That was a great example. ~I mean, yeah. ~If you have to just check every single word you speak or thing you do, you're never going to feel comfortable. You're not going to be able to create, ~you know. ~That's what you were talking about being creative earlier, ~you know. And I was, I mean, what a, ~that's just, ~that's ~squashing that, you know.
Adam Gragg: Yep. And rock and a hard place. ~Yeah. ~
Brent Coppock: Yeah, and I think that's an old school mentality of, cause I, in one of my [00:12:00] first jobs, I had a boss like that, the first thing in the morning he would go around and just chew everyone out and you thought that motivated him for the day, you know, but everybody was just, you know, shaking and scared and, you know, there's, you can't produce ~when you're, ~when you feel that way.
Yeah. ~Yeah. You need to know that. ~Whatever I do, ~if I'm, ~if my goal is to do something well, even if I make a mistake, it's like, you're understood, you're not judged, ~it's not, you're not, ~the hammer's not above your head all the time. You know, that's what you need is to feel that comfort.
Adam Gragg: Oh, yeah.
Brent Coppock: It's not just work, it's with relationships in general, ~if, if, ~if you don't feel comfortable of saying things, you're always having to check what you say.
~I, ~the way I would put it is by saying about freedom. ~You don't have a free, you know, ~you don't have a peace, right? There's not a peace there.
Adam Gragg: You got to say the perfect thing. Yes. So what do you pick up on as a therapist that indicates that there's maybe a safety problem? ~Yeah. ~
Brent Coppock: So we all have wounds, right?
We're all I saw a quote recently. ~Well, that's been probably a couple months ago now, but, and I can't, I couldn't find the actual person. There's some question out who quoted it. So, I won't be able to tell you, but anyway, ~ everyone you meet [00:13:00] is fighting a battle, you know, nothing about, right?
And so we're all wounded. We're walking around wounded. And so that keeps us, ~you know, You know, ~trying to protect ourselves. And we, it's hard for us to trust anyone because we've been wounded. ~Most, ~Most often we're wounded in relationship. And so it keeps us from engaging a relationship because of that.
We're protecting ourselves, you know, it's hard to trust. So the way, you know, if someone is trusting is they're able to share things with you and not ~hold that, ~hold that back. ~So ~
Adam Gragg: ~are there. Yeah, that is very interesting. ~So you can pick, can you, how quickly can you pick up on how safe people feel around each other when they come in as a family or?
Brent Coppock: ~Well, it really, it takes, ~it takes a bit of time because, ~you know, ~depending on the person, ~you know, ~everything's wonderful, ~you know, it's, oh, we're doing so great, you know, ~but then you'll get little glimpses of, ~you know, ~comments will slip out where, you know, yeah, just, well, I think people think we're just such a great family, you know, it's like, yeah, [00:14:00] you kind of get that idea ~of, you know, it's, it's more ~of, we're trying to put on.
This look for everyone because everybody thinks, oh man, everybody else has it together. So I have to have it together It's not okay to admit that ~you know, it's ~it's a mess ~And~
Adam Gragg: so are you saying basically like when people start to admit that they have problems Then that's a sign that ~they're actually has some ~they're building some trust.
Brent Coppock: Yes Yeah, when they can get to the point where they can share and not have to edit. Yeah the story Yeah, no, that's when you know, you're starting to build some trust and I think personally, you know if you're Talking with somebody and you're having to check everything you say. ~Yeah. ~I'm just like, what, you know, what is it?
Is it something in me? Is it something in them? In trying to That
Adam Gragg: ~is a huge deal. So you pick up on that. And I do, in relationships, you can pick up on where are you, am I being scrutinized here? And am I like, Oh, can I let my guard down or not? ~It's amazing how that happens. So what have you tried personally and let's say with your family to build safety?
~That could be helpful for others to know.~
Brent Coppock: Yeah. So ~the, yeah, ~the best example for me is~ you know, because like I shared, you know, ~because of my past wounds and this was through my master's [00:15:00] program digging in, ~you know, ~that's what they really helped us dig into, ~you know, our, yeah, ~our junk. And so as I did that~ kind of ~my goal through my master program was healing my attachment wounds.
And so, ~you know, just ~one of the simple things they had you do is start to recognize your emotions, your feelings, which is something ~I was~ you know, for, for, because of those wounds, I was not able to do that. And so I was starting to work on that.
Adam Gragg: Through the program you're starting to work on. ~Yeah, starting to build a notice.~
Attachment wounds for the audience, what does that mean?
Brent Coppock: ~So, yeah, ~so early in life, as a child, you're supposed to learn that if you need something, your needs are going to be met. Yeah, in my case I had instances where that didn't happen it was more around of, you know, me expressing an emotion and then basically, you know, it wasn't accepted.
Adam Gragg: So like the long and the short of like a baby crying and then not getting soothed, you know, yeah, or in I'm not saying you should always pick up your baby when they cry. I mean, there's times when they have to kind of fall asleep. I get it. So, but like in general, you [00:16:00] don't get the bonding that would be healthy to know that your needs are going to be met.
Yes. And it may not be all of your needs, but in some cases, and that can lead to an attachment wound. Yeah.
Brent Coppock: Yeah. And ~so, ~so then having to. You know, be able to learn, you know, because I, I stuffed those down for a long time, you know, really the only one I had was. Happy or angry, you know, those, those are, you know, one of the few that I could
Adam Gragg: Easy ones.
Brent Coppock: Yeah. Hey. Usually my response is, I'm good, ~you know, and so, so yeah, ~so I learned I needed to try to understand those and then share those with somebody safe. My safe person is my wife and ~she was longing, I mean, ~she would, ~you know, ~always, ~I mean, ~ask, ~you know, ~how am I doing? Good. I'm good. Yeah, I'm always good.
~Yeah, and ~she knows better, you know, she knows me better than I do a lot of times and ~so ~she would try, ~you know, ~to help coach me. ~And anyway, so ~when I finally got to the point where I understood I need to work on this, I started sharing and so that's what [00:17:00] she was longing for. Was to actually hear my heart.
That's really what is coming out, right? It's it's your right brain. You know, your experiences is where the wounds were. And as you said, that wounds happen in relationship and they can only be healed in relationship. And so by sharing this with my wife, she was able to connect with me on a really heart level.
And what I did not expect was I actually needed that. And as I did that, she felt closer to me, but I also felt closer to her. And that was not something that I was expecting or even thought I needed. ~And it's really hard to explain how it really, how the experience really worked. I mean, ~I felt closer to her.
I felt like I couldn't get close enough to her, and it's not like a needy thing, it was just. a longing, you know, I mean, it was just something so new. And so, yeah, as I said earlier, freeing, right. It was such a freeing experience [00:18:00] because
because of these wounds, you're trying to protect yourself. So if you're trying to protect yourself, there's something between you and the other person. And when you can finally let that down, which is what happened with my wife. Then you find out there's just so much more beauty than you ever realized.
Adam Gragg: ~Can you think of, that's pretty amazing, ~can you think of the very first time that happened with your wife? There was a first, like, okay, I can, someone took the first action there, right? Yeah,
Brent Coppock: yeah.
Adam Gragg: So, and I'm taking it wasn't after you got married, right?
Brent Coppock: No, it's, I mean, it's been the last few years, so, yeah.
Adam Gragg: Oh, the first time? ~in the last few years? ~Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Wow. Yeah.
Brent Coppock: In my master's is when I intentionally started doing this. ~Wow. Okay.~
Adam Gragg: Yeah.
Brent Coppock: And then, you know, after being able to do that with her, then, ~you know, ~I can start doing it with other people. Yeah. ~You know, you know, ~you and some other friends for sure.
I can trust and are safe people. Yeah. But as you said, as we get to where we're healed or healing, I guess, I don't know where I will be healed or healing, but as you heal, [00:19:00] then you can do that with other people, even if they aren't safe. You may not get what you desire and you just have to be okay with that.
Okay. Right. Person's not able to go there and that's okay. ~Yeah. That's okay.~
Adam Gragg: Yeah. No, that's a great point. Cause you have a foundation of safe people that help you to actually be able to be around unsafe people with boundaries in a healthy way. ~That's such a great piece of advice right there. Yeah. ~Is there any point in your, in your marriage when you realized that, that your wife was safe?
Like, you know, like, when would that be?
Brent Coppock: Oh, ~that was, ~that would have been early on when we were dating. I mean, I wouldn't even have I wouldn't have been able to marry her if I didn't believe she was safe. ~Yeah. And so, yeah, ~She is a person, which this is big for me, you know, trust.
issues. I have trust issues. And so everyone I meet, I'm always questioning, is this a safe person? And I have all kinds of doors and locks ~and, you know, ~that people have to get through. And so with her, ~I mean, ~she's the person that, ~I mean, ~if she thinks it, it comes out, ~you know, there's like, ~there's no secrets.
And so that for me was huge. And my can I trust is, you know, she [00:20:00] is because I know that there's, I mean, she just,
Adam Gragg: yeah, she would not stuff things. She would get it out. Yeah. And then you,
Brent Coppock: she can't keep secrets. I mean. Yeah. Yeah, and it's in a good, a good way, you know. She can't, she
Adam Gragg: can't keep, well, some things you gotta keep a secret.
~I mean,~
Brent Coppock: if it's somebody else's secret, she can keep that, ~but if it's, you know. ~
Adam Gragg: ~Yeah, on herself, yeah. On herself, I mean, she's not. Yeah, it just makes me think of like, you know, people sometimes like, you know. People can overshare like, right. I mean, which is hard to describe sometimes, I guess. But anyway, yeah.~
Yeah. So with her,
Brent Coppock: ~you know, ~I just knew that, ~yeah, ~whatever's there is, ~it's ~going to come out. ~Yeah. That's cool. ~I can just trust her. And so, ~yeah, ~that was really early on. ~Yeah.~
Adam Gragg: And then how professionally as a therapist, do you build and try to build safety? ~And you could even think of just like, Other professional experiences.~
~Yeah. ~
Brent Coppock: Safe people are people that are not judging, ~you know, I mean, and so just creating an environment for a client that. ~You know, whatever you say is, it's safe. There's no judgment. I'm here to help you. I'm here for you. And they're like, yeah, right,
Adam Gragg: whatever. You want my money.
You just want me to come back. Okay. I'm just kidding. But now I think you have a way of doing that. I'm trying to get something that I would think. Would be your attention to [00:21:00] people would become across as genuine for you personally, Brent, like that you really do care. I always thought like when you do this, you'd have trouble, maybe, not letting go, you know, like realizing that like they got to do their own stuff.
Like, you know, I can't do it for them.
Brent Coppock: Right. You know, and
Adam Gragg: that, that was a hard lesson for me to learn to say like, you know, if they come back, they come back. If they don't, they don't. It's not personal. It's really a reflection of them.
Brent Coppock: Yeah. And, and especially starting out, ~it's, ~it's hard not to think, Oh man, if I was better, you know?
Yeah. Right.
Adam Gragg: Yeah.
Brent Coppock: Yeah. And so there is that, ~you know, ~and, but again, I have healthy people that I can talk with and work through those feelings. ~But ~a good example I think of that maybe is, I have a friend who, and I'm sure, you know, and so this would be like, what, trying to find somebody I can do this with, so a safe person.
So if you have a person like this in your life, that's a pretty good indication, you might want to spend more [00:22:00] time with him. ~Right. ~I have a friend who, you can't go anywhere without him seeing somebody he knows. And then they'll come up and talk because he will talk to you like he's known you forever and you're the only one on the planet.
I mean, when you're talking to him, ~I mean, ~he's just all in with you. Yeah. And so people are just drawn to him. And so it can be a little frustrating when you're with him, ~you know, ~because, ~you know, ~you can't go five feet without, ~you know, ~running into somebody else that he's talking to. ~But, ~but at the same time, it's like, wow, that's.
I'd like to be like that. A person that people just feel comfortable with and feel valued by. ~You know, ~and so finding that person is a pretty good indication that they're a safe person.
Adam Gragg: You're lucky you got those people, so you spend more time with them. And it's, it's amazing.
You can work on it. You can take action within yourself to become a safer person. Right. And even when I'm here, I'm with you is to. Change the mindset [00:23:00] that maybe they're not gonna hurt me. Maybe they're gonna, you know, like, help me. Like, I have a friend from church that has ~a ~a pitbull. And he, we were talking a couple weeks ago.
I like pitbulls. You like pitbulls? Okay, so we were talking, the pitbull's like 12 or 13. It's like an older, Anyway, it's just someone I know casually, but a good guy and his wife and everything. But he, he was telling me like when he walks the dog, like people get scared and he thinks it's so funny because it's the most friendly pit bull.
You know, he's just two kids. He's got two kids that are. Teenager and one's like you're in early 20s or something and it's like you know the initial reaction is not it's not safe. Right, you know, and I mean, thanks to people I mean, you know, whatever dog fighting and things that you know, but they're actually very friendly but same thing with people So how can I go into that interaction saying?
You know what? Something good is going to come out of this. Yeah. You know, I remember my dad saying that on the lot when I interviewed him. He said when he went into a sales meeting, and I totally believe this about my dad, like he's he's his initial approach is it's going to go well. Like they're going to like [00:24:00] me.
~I mean, ~because look at me ~like ~and that's why he was so devastated when he met. When he met Bill Cosby and Bill Cosby was like a total jerk to him. He was like, I thought he would like me. But then it's like, well, that wasn't really personal kind of thing. And then he's met all these famous people that are thinking, you know, well, he did that because he was willing to say, well, they probably didn't want to, they probably do want to meet me.
Brent Coppock: Yeah. I mean, it's like, it's like kind of cool, but it's both pieces, right? Both pieces, but also. If that's not the response, that's not on me.
Adam Gragg: It's not on me. No, it's actually on them. They missed out because, you know, I'm a uniquely gifted, cool person, not in an arrogant way. I'm just, I have something to offer, which I find is so helpful is when people realize that they don't have to be equal.
Why do you want to be equal? I don't want to be like you, Brent. I mean, there's qualities that you have in you.
Brent Coppock: Equal, not the same, right? So we, we want to be On the same level, not one up, one down. ~In that, in that sense.~
Adam Gragg: Yeah. I think when people describe equal equality though, is like, they think if we can look at each [00:25:00] other as being the same, then we're going to feel safer.
I thought about this. Like if I, if somebody is, when we have people around us that all think the same way as us, then we feel safer. Yet. I don't find, I think it's great if we all think the same way about the right things that are true. And we think about certain things, you know,
Brent Coppock: but how do we know what the right things are?
Adam Gragg: We know what the right things,
Brent Coppock: how do we know we're. Thinking correctly if we don't have somebody to question it.
Adam Gragg: We don't because then we're yeah And so that in that sense, I would rather have healthy people who are not the same. Yeah, you know and equal I don't know ~I ~I guess I've thought about ~how ~how people there's a lot ~of ~of negativity with that word these days
Brent Coppock: Right
Adam Gragg: ~and and so ~and I think it's misused In so many ways.
And so ~I think I don't want, in fact, ~I think people ~do ~are healthier when they realize we're just unique. We're just different. And that's a great thing. And I'm not going to have what you have. You're not going to have what I have, but we can help each other out. And that's a cool thing. ~So that's a, so, ~so what can people start doing today?
And you've kind of hit on this, but to start building a sense of [00:26:00] improving their ability to have safety around them. ~their, ~what can they start doing right now?
Brent Coppock: ~Yeah. ~Yeah. I mean, like we talked about, I think ~finding the, ~finding a safe person, ~you know, ~is, ~you know, ~just noticing.
Who those people are in your life that you can be around and just be who you are. ~And man, it's, ~it's ~rare. It is ~rare to find this person. But, and then as you also said, being that person ~is, ~is another piece of it. ~And that, ~and that kind of takes some work, ~you know, ~to be able to get to the point. Like your dad is,
that's hard, you know, and so it's kind of a both, ~you know, ~you got to work ~on, ~on being around safe people so that you can be that person, ~you know, ~and then as you, as you, yeah, then you can start doing that with other people too.
Adam Gragg: And you hit on this too, like that, if you find a person that is safer, so, you know, text them right now, do something right now with that.
Yeah. And like, you know, reach out if, if you even, even reaching out with an idea with somebody and somebody recently reached out to me and said, Hey, I think you should apply to speak at this event, which, and I thought, [00:27:00] well, she didn't have to do that. And I was actually feeling really insecure at that time about my speaking abilities, which I do a lot because especially when I have something I'm preparing, I feel like I'm not good at this.
It's a mindset. It's a fear, right? It's a fear. Yeah. But then she had sent that out and it was like, well, maybe I'm better than I thought. Cause at least she's inviting me. And I respect her opinion more than my opinion of myself a lot of times. So so let's go to the next one.
So go for, essential number two is to go first.
Essential number two in relationship building action. So, and, and you, you're the one who's willing to invite, you're the one who's willing to text, you're the one who's willing to engage. And I think at college and high school friends, a lot of times I'll go and say, well, you know, we're probably not going to get together if, unless I plan something, but does that really matter?
You know, I could be. And have the mindset, which I have, like, I don't want to do this again. I mean, why won't they do it? Or I can have the mindset, like, who cares? You know, like, like I want to make enough money that I can actually, you know, get the grouchy people to all get [00:28:00] together and pay for their way and like make it work and invite them.
And so they don't have an excuse not to do something. So then like, that's really cool and fun and exciting. And if they can be, I want to be a safe person for them. It's not about me. Like if I, if I go first, it's not, it's not, I'm not making it about me and I don't have to judge them. I'm just like, that's where they're at.
That's an example of like not being equal in a sense. Like I don't want to have that negative attitude about going first. I don't want to be equal to that. I don't want that. That's what I mean by that. Like, I don't want that, but I'm not gonna, I'm not judging them for it because reality is like, you know, if you have an attachment wound, there's a very good chance that they did with best they could do right back then.
Like, but they were so, you know, like I think of my attachment wounds. I think my mom is a good example. Great person. Like, I mean, I think, but there's also different parts of me that aren't great and different parts of her that need work and everything. So like, we're all mixed kind of bag, you know, it's like, it's like, so I think it's really healthy.
It's that, it's that you learn about like false dichotomies, [00:29:00] you know, it's either, you can either say it's an either or, or it's a both and I like a both and yeah. Yeah. And then
Brent Coppock: that's what more accurate.
Adam Gragg: It's more accurate for sure. Both and yeah, but I'll never be. And in fact, I mean, and some people may never be as extroverted as me and that's okay.
I mean, I don't want them to be right. Right. So, so do your part. And one of the first things I like to do with teams is an icebreaker. Cause I want to get them uncomfortable, you know, but I think like next week I'm doing this thing with this company and I got a workshop planned and I know it's a mixture of people, like some that will want to be there.
Some that won't, I think most of them will want to, cause I've done it before with the same team and it went really stinking well. So, but there'll be some people that are new.
And so as people that are new come in, they're going to be like, well, I got to check this guy out for myself. And I know you said some positive or whatever, but making people uncomfortable at first requires somebody to go for, I mean, you, you build connection ~as you~ do uncomfortable things together, right?
You know, you think of the people that build really close relationships. A lot of times you're like, you've [00:30:00] been through stuff together, right? You know, like actually Brent and I have been through stuff together, believe it or not, like he's. He's, we've been through, I mean, I, I think I've been more difficult at times than, than he has for sure.
But we've been through stuff together. It's our history that like really is like, we, no one can take that away from us. Right. So the teams do the same thing if you get them to, and it takes real that, as you mentioned, you, you being safe in yourself. So you can have the foundation to lead. People through that, that it's not nearly as big of a deal.
Clients, a lot of times, as I've supervised people over the years that are therapists, you know, they'll tell me that one of their biggest fears is like a couple fighting or a family fighting. And, you know, like, like then I think, well, okay, I can see that because it's so volatile and somebody, and then I'll tell them, I'm like, you know, how many times people in families have stormed out of my office?
over the last, you know, whatever years. And I'll tell them like, here's the, I'll give them stories, you know, like people, this and that I'm going to do, you know, it's like, okay. And then they come back and then they, you know, it's like, I've had clients [00:31:00] before where my admin, they just kind of know that this is going to be loud.
And it's like, okay, but that's your own sense of confidence in yourself and security yourself that lets you go and step into those things and be okay. So when. You, when it, what are your thoughts on this going first, Brent, and then this, what I'm talking about here?
Brent Coppock: ~Yeah,~ it just made me think of, I had a, a friend, Dan, who started hanging out with me a lot.
He, he came to work was in my cubicle and we worked together for a while and then started kind of hitting it off, became friends, started doing things outside of work. And eventually it got to the point where, man, I just really liked him. I really wanted to spend time with him. And so I just, I just did, you know, and I mean, I would, I'd call him and say, Hey, let's go do this.
Or I'd say, Hey, you know, just, we'd be at work and I'd say, Hey, let's go do this, you know, whatever. And I felt like I was just always. Was it a,
Adam Gragg: was it a bromance? I'm just kidding.
Brent Coppock: Not really. Not exactly. [00:32:00] Yeah, I get it. All right. But anyway, we just really I just really enjoyed him and I kind of started, that feeling was like, well, I'm always the one instigating, you know, and it's easy to, to start down that negative path, right? Well, you know, I always have to do it and he doesn't really want to spend time with me. But the reality is they're having the same thoughts, right? They're having this, oh, they're probably too busy or, you know, they don't really want to hang out with me, you know, and so they're struggling with that same thing.
So just keep that in mind and not take it personal if it does feel one sided. I mean, do you enjoy it? Do you guys have fun together? Then there's no reason not to. So that's kind of,
Adam Gragg: it's like, get over yourself. I mean, some people are busier. I mean, for me in my life too, I think, well, you know, I have a daughter who's almost 18, you know, and I, I'm not married.
I, you know, I have, I don't have a, I have an apartment.
What are some activities In the very first [00:33:00] session, let's say with a couple or a family that you think would be super helpful that you would challenge them to engage in to build the relationship.
Brent Coppock: Yeah. So my go to favorite thing with people is the Gary Chapman, I believe is the right five languages.
And so for me, for one reason, just kind of give you insight, like. Early, like, first year of marriage I felt like, man, I was, like, the best husband ever, you know, I mean, I'm just, like, you know, I have got this thing nailed, you know, and I'm, like, breaking my arm, patting myself on the back, and then all of a sudden
Adam Gragg: That's right, you used to wear that gold medal, like, the marriage gold medal.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or, like, where, what are you doing with that thing? We were, I was a little embarrassed for you when you wore that thing. I'm just kidding. Yeah.
Brent Coppock: So just patting myself on the back, you know, and, and all of a sudden I, I start hearing this [00:34:00] sound and I'm like, what? And I realized my beautiful wife is in tears.
And I'm thinking, wait a minute, I'm Super Husband, how, how could that be?
And then I find out, well, it's because you're a jerk, but so what, what I've been doing was I was speaking my love language. I was telling her I loved her, I was serving my butt off, right?
So I'm saying I love her, I'm doing all this serving, and all those things, you know, the words of affirmation are going right in one ear out the other. The serving was actually to her saying she's not doing a good enough job. So it's just, you know.
Everything I'm doing is actually having the opposite effect until I find out, fortunately, we read this book and I found out her love language is physical touch. And so I had to start translating, you know, when I thought to tell her I love her, that I would give her a hug and a kiss. And so as I started doing that, then she started feeling loved.[00:35:00]
And so for me, that's one of the biggest ones because I see so many people that doing what I did, you spend all this energy and you're like, it's not having any impact. And then you get frustrated and you're just like, forget it. Why bother? And you just completely check out, you know? And so fortunately we didn't get to that point, but that's what happens a lot of times in relationships is, you know, it's.
All this work is expensive, and you don't see a payoff, and she's like, well, forget it. I'm just not going to work anymore.
Adam Gragg: That's sophisticated. Do you rub her feet?
Brent Coppock: No, she doesn't like that. So, yeah. You would if you, yeah, okay. ~If I'm~ within arm's reach, I'm holding her hand. She likes that. That's a good one.
Yeah. And then hugs and kisses. First thing in the morning, we get up. Hug and kiss when I'm leaving for work. Hug and kiss, come back from work. He loves that. Before I go to sleep, hug and kiss.
Adam Gragg: Yeah. So, how long were you married before you figured that out?
Brent Coppock: It was within the first year. That's cool. Yeah.
It was fairly quick. Okay. I [00:36:00] don't even remember how we got found it, but it was. So, that's one reason why it was so impactful for me. That's one reason why. Yeah. That I really. Yeah. But I do see. a lot of value when people use that.
Adam Gragg: For sure.
Brent Coppock: And it's a fairly simple, and simple is not easy. So don't.
Adam Gragg: Simple, okay, that's a both and.
Yeah,
Brent Coppock: so it's a simple thing to do, but simple does not equal easy. It takes work.
Adam Gragg: So simple, the concept is simple. Yes. Like there's five love languages. Yes. And by the way, that book, The Five Love Languages is Gary Chapman. There's also a great book as well called The Five Languages of Appreciation in the Workplace written by Gary Chapman and Paul White.
And Paul's actually a friend, a good friend of mine. That's a great book though, for workplace teams that I've actually gone through with a number of companies and they find it extremely helpful.
Brent Coppock: You know, it's different.
You probably don't want to hug your co worker. Yeah, high
Adam Gragg: five, a fist bump or whatever, you know, slap on the back. Yeah, [00:37:00] but you know, yeah, you can use that. Yeah, right. Same concept, you know, and simple, yet not easy ~because ~you got to plan it intentionally into your life. ~There. ~
So as a reminder, that is the first part, the first half of Relationship Building Actions with Brent Coppock. come back and check out the second half of this episode. You'll find it as inspiring as the first. So remember, 20 percent of transformational change, or less, is information.
Gaining information. You gained information today, but remember that 80 percent plus is action. What are you going to do with this information? If you want it to stick, take action right away. And if you really want it to sink in even deeper than that, teach it to someone else, whatever it was today that was so inspiring to you and helpful to you.
Remember, put it into action, do something with it. Make it your mission to live the life now that you want to be remembered for 10 years after you're gone. You decide your legacy, nobody else. I [00:38:00] appreciate you greatly, and I'll see you next time.