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Welcome to The Pilot Project Podcast, your premier source for stories and insights from pilots in the RCAF and mission aviation - brought to you by Skies Magazine! Whether you're an aspiring aviator, navigating flight training, or simply fascinated by the world of military and mission aviation, this podcast is your guide. We sit down with pilots and aviation professionals to hear their thrilling experiences, lessons learned, and expert advice on resilience, training, and the skills needed to succeed in this exciting field. Strap in - we’re ready for departure!
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Normal doors and hatches closed lay down strobe light on restart check is complete your left engineers start number two starting two.
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Wind 31010 pilot project broadcast clear takeoff runway 31 left.
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All right, we're ready for departure here at the Pilot Project Podcast, the best source for stories and advice from RCAF and mission aviation pilots brought to you by Skies Magazine. I'm your host, Brian Morrison, and here with me once again today is my very close friend, Captain Nils Olson. Today, we're going to chat with Nils about instructing on the Phase 3 helicopter course at 3CFFTS in Portage La Prairie, Manitoba.
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Nils, it's awesome to have you back on the show. yeah Thanks for having Brian. So Nils was just recently on the show for episodes 98 and 99. So listeners who want to hear about his time on the Sea King should check out those episodes. And he's actually very kindly jumped in last minute today to help us get an extra episode in the can before we go on our house hunting trip. So thanks again.
00:01:38.36
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Today, as I said, we'll be talking about instructing on the phase three helicopter course, and we'll also get into the response to the 2025 Manitoba wildfires that Nils took part in. Normally, we'd start with Nils' bio, but since he was just on the show, we're going to dive right into the interview. If you'd like to hear his bio, check out episode 98.
00:01:55.67
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And while you're out at it, 99. but So we're going to talk first about what it was like to transition to instructing. You were posted to 3CFFTS in 2018. How big of a lifestyle shift was that?
00:02:08.18
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It was pretty big, actually, and welcome. the The pace of operations for me at 443 Squadron was really high. ah We had a one-year-old and, ah oh no, she was like almost two.
00:02:23.19
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And then our son was, you know, six months old, I think, when we moved here. And it was just, it was time to be home and raise a family. So it was a welcome change.
00:02:34.94
Speaker
After years at sea, what did it feel like to have stability again? Uh, that's a big adjustment actually. Yeah. Yeah. Cause, uh, while you're away or while I was away, Lindsay was adapting her life without me and even coming back, even from like a two month sale or something, there is an adjustment period. So we were going through that again and it was busy with the move, but once we got in and and settled, uh, it just took us some time to kind of feel each other out and, uh, and adapt to that.
00:03:06.14
Speaker
Just being around. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that was something that surprised me too when I was deploying. you know, Melissa and I had just gotten married, so it was like a huge adjustment for us. We didn't live together before we got married, so that was already this big thing, and then we were just sort of getting used to that, and then I was gone for four months, and she made a life without me, yeah and then I came home and screwed it up. Yep. That's usually how it goes. Yeah, and then I leave again, and like it was just this cycle of Like I never expected that. I thought like the homecoming would be this like over and it was like super nice to be home and see each other. But I didn't expect that it would also be challenging.
00:03:42.17
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Yeah. Like initially it's just like dopamine, like crazy for for a few days and then you start hitting a rhythm and then usually like I'm on leave coming back from the deployment. So like I'm around, but she's working. Uh, and then, you know, you get that. Well, what did you do today? Like rested from my deployment. Yeah. Yeah. So there's that. Yeah. Some adjusting to do for sure. Like i the responsibilities and the the routine gets all, all messed up. Yeah.
00:04:11.06
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Yeah. What was it like for you guys to come from Victoria, which is obviously like this big city and, you know, everyone, anyone who hasn't been to Vancouver Island, like it's an absolutely gorgeous place. And then you move to a small prairie town. What was that adjustment like?
00:04:26.14
Speaker
Yeah, it was a big, a big change. We moved here in April from Victoria and April in Victoria is very nice. Like the the ball blooms are all out. I think actually all the apple trees and the cherry trees had dropped their blossoms and like we're beginning to fruit.
00:04:44.60
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Our tulips would come up in February. get eaten by the deer etc and like you know the grass is green the sun is shining and then we cross the rockies and we were driving the last two days in snow then we got here and there's like a foot and a half of snow in the backyard and it's just like i felt like we were driving into the arctic circle like are we in the tundra now yeah uh so Yeah, that even that fall, like it snowed in September and I grew up on the West Coast. Lindsay's from the island and we would see snow like two three times a year in like fit February, January, February. Yeah.
00:05:27.10
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Almost never for Christmas. ah Then to see it on the ground for so long here was like I had to film it because I knew my family wouldn't believe me unless they saw video evidence.
00:05:39.10
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So the weather was like one of the biggest shocks for you guys. Well, yeah, like it's so stable on the West Coast, right? It goes yeah between like 30 and, you know, maybe minus two in winter with a big body of water there. yeah And over here, well, you know, it's like a 70, 80 degree swing sometimes Celsius. Like yeah that's a big swing. Yeah, yeah, it is crazy here. It was a shock for us too. The first fall we were here was the big ice or the big snowstorm that's right in October. Yeah. Just before Thanksgiving when the power went out for like five days. yeah That was a great time. Yeah. I mean, we had we we had a lot of fun. Yeah.
00:06:17.66
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What did it feel like to be in a ah small town? Uh, actually we liked it yeah because we were we lived outside of Victoria up in central Saanich and the airport is north of that in North Saanich, Sydney area.
00:06:31.32
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So I had a like a 15 minute drive to work, uh, going North away from all the traffic, but Lindsay worked downtown. So she was in and out of the traffic every day.
00:06:42.55
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and it's just a big time, time vacuum, you know? So coming here with two small kids into a small town, It's got everything we need. Everything's within like seven minute drive, including my work and, and the grocery store and sports goods, all that kind of stuff.
00:06:59.97
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Uh, it was, it was a welcome change. Yeah. could just drop everything and you're, you're home in 15 minutes if you need some lettuce or something, you know? Yeah. Like a, 45 minute drive. Yeah. Yeah. That's definitely as, as we're looking at moving to Ontario, uh, we're finding that we're spoiled now from being in this small town that has everything where everything's five minutes away. Yeah. Yeah. Like the hospital wait times are really good here. We've got the new one opening, and the schools close by.
00:07:29.27
Speaker
yeah Yeah. And you know as you're here for a few years, you really kind of find yourself with such a small community that it doesn't take long to be involved. And then you see the same people everywhere. like yeah you know Other hockey coaches like you and we'll see them at the grocery store and say hi. and yep Wave to people when you're driving by in the car. Yeah, you know someone in like every eighth car that goes by. Yeah.
00:07:53.91
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And other every fourth one, there's someone you've met before, but you can't remember their name. Yeah. you know Like it's ah it's not like being in a city where everyone's kind of just anonymous. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:08:05.05
Speaker
What was the flight instructor course like on the Outlaw? It was ah it was a big change going from operational flying ah to instructing.
00:08:17.02
Speaker
You know, operationally, especially at the point I was at where I had the maximum category for maritime helicopter ah to come back to the school and realize like the intent is different with what you're flying ah and some instructional skills to develop.
00:08:35.83
Speaker
I I'm not going to lie. I had some difficulty on the flight instructor course, just changing with my attitude and whatnot. Yeah. Like, ah do you want to talk about it? Yeah, just my approach to to flying.
00:08:47.96
Speaker
where And I see it now, like teaching the flight instructor course. ah And I'm very relatable to the people and that experience that they had. I remember mine quite clearly. So, you know, I can coach them through it a little bit.
00:09:01.32
Speaker
Uh, but it's not like, okay, go, go land there. You know, operationally, you just, you just go and land, but at the school, everything is very structured and you're speaking about it and you're, you're directing the tension and you're, you're predicting the future and you're trying to, uh, voice all of that while flying it perfectly in accordance with the flying training manual that we have. So yeah, it can be operationally. There's a lot of, uh, get it done.
00:09:31.00
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Whereas here it's very, very structured. Yeah. Yeah. And for good reason too. Yeah. Like I would imagine part of that is that by the time you're operational, like there's a certain baseline of skill, right? So yeah you're not worrying about the very basics. You're assuming those are good to go. And you're there to like, when you're training, you're literally there to fly. When you're operating, you're flying to accomplish a mission. So the real focus is on the mission. Yeah. Yeah. And as part of being an aircraft commander is developing the co-pilot, but we don't get, there's no training course on that. Like you're not really taught until you're in the squadron ah training and readiness. At least that's what we had in 443. So you get some sort of formalized ah instructor training. But even that it's like, it's really quick. It's like an hour brief and sit down with someone else who's done it for a little bit.
00:10:21.98
Speaker
Yeah. So the, the standard kind of, you know, ebbs and flows like that, where it's here, everything's written. It's, it's usually pretty clear. Yeah. Did you find it frustrating at all to move from like a big picture operational mindset to worrying about all the small stuff?
00:10:37.43
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Uh, yeah. And like, you know, I was, uh, I'll admit, like i I came in here with a little bit of a chip on my shoulder ah because of the the pace of operations I was coming from. You know, it kind of gets sold as a place where you can you can throttle back a little bit, ah raise your family, you know, eight to four kind of thing. And I was like, oh, this is going to be perfect.
00:11:04.15
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But the pace at which the conversion and and flight instructor course progress is quite rapid, especially when you're learning a new airframe. Like half the guys who come here are flying the Griffin, which is a 412, just like we have on that course. So ah easier transition for some people.
00:11:22.33
Speaker
uh but if you go go and relearn a whole nother aircraft uh there's that extra hill to climb for sure and uh you know i was like you have me from eight to four so if we're flying every day i'm not getting into the sim at 6 p.m with the students like i'm i'm here to be with my family and that was a you know ah friction point we'll say yeah with the with the instructor staff yeah Yeah, I remember when I was doing my conversion course and I was quite surprised by the late evenings. Like I would be there all day and then I'd be at my desk studying for a few extra hours because the same thing, I had to relearn the King Air, which it's not complicated, but it's something new and you want to be good at it. And yeah it does it was surprising the amount of work that was going into it.
00:12:04.22
Speaker
Yeah. and Typically, like I'm a, I'm a bit of a slow starter in the flight instructor handbook. We categorize each student, yeah you know, you know, you plateau or you're quick starter and then you flatten out or you're a slow starter and then you kind of take off.
00:12:18.58
Speaker
I'm, I'm definitely in the slow starter category, which can be frustrating for my instructor uh but like once it clicks i like to think that i have a good deep understanding of many different factors involved and then like once i get it i really really get it yeah it just takes me a little while to get there yeah uh have you found in the long term that like those promises were true of like stable schedule and good hours and all that stuff Yeah.
00:12:45.59
Speaker
Yeah. Uh, there were a lot more student cross countries than I imagined. And you know, the night flying schedule, uh, in the summertime, you know, there are times where you're just weeks on nights. Yeah.
00:12:57.11
Speaker
Uh, and that can be, that can be hard because it's now like you're sleeping all day. Like young kids are running around the house and you know, there's no time for a nap. So yeah, not to mention that it doesn't get dark here in the summer until like 10 or 11 at night.
00:13:09.37
Speaker
Yeah. so And even then you put the goggles on the sun is right behind the horizon. It's still too bright. Yeah. At least when you face north. So it ah those those times were like almost mini deployments. It felt like.
00:13:23.22
Speaker
ah Just avoiding, you know, like you you want to show up to work well rested. It's it's for your own safety. Yeah, of course. So there. Yeah, it's not without challenges.
00:13:34.65
Speaker
ah But at least you're there. yeah i think the the quality of life and the quality of family life is still very high here oh very much yeah yeah what do you think surprised you most about teaching when you first started oh geez good question um Probably the impact that you have on someone else's development, you know, like your attitude towards what would some people would consider a small thing and keeping it important or, you know, a high priority really does kind of trickle down into the students developmental.
00:14:13.46
Speaker
process of of learning the aircraft and you like, yeah, that that stuff is important. It's not just ah everything a six degree sight picture. There's a lot more to it, right? ah You know, our our training plan is pretty well, like the the flight line stuff, it is about maneuvers and learning to operate the machine.
00:14:32.54
Speaker
But there is so much else going on. And it's ah paying attention to that stuff and just showing showing that to the students as an instructor. Like, you can't just briefly, like just read the Metar and and go like, there's a whole weather thing to read. you're talking AOIs and one engine and operative kind of stuff and and keeping that, uh, in their cycle of, of thinking kind of in the battle rhythm of going for a flight. Yeah.
00:14:57.92
Speaker
Yeah. So Nils mentioned a couple of things there. METARs is a weather observation in this kind of pilot gobbledygook that you have to learn how to read. AOIs is aircraft operating instructions. And you mentioned six degree sight picture. Is that the approach path the helicopter flies? Yeah. So at 3CFFTS for the helicopters, we use a six degree sight picture to transition from forward flight to a hover. Okay. So yeah we approach the ground at six degrees, which is twice as steep as a fixed wing, which is typically three degrees, right?
00:15:32.92
Speaker
Yeah. I was going to say that that might feel steep, if at least for the students coming off the grobe. Yeah. Or the Harvard. Yeah. So they, but they all fly fixed wing before they come to us. So it does, it feels steep and without, you know, there's no pappies, no, no lights and there's no runway.
00:15:49.43
Speaker
So it is a little bit ambiguous. Yeah. And, and pappies. Yeah. Sorry. That's okay. Pappies are precision approach path indicator. Something like that. It's fixed wing stuff. Yeah. yeah So basically just the the depth of the world you were getting into for, for teaching and like all the things that, like you said, there's the hands and feet, but there's all the, the airmanship stuff, all like the things you have to know and be familiar with. Yeah.
00:16:15.58
Speaker
Yeah. And the environment that you're, you're flying in and yeah, you know, we were as a seeking guy, like over water environment all the time was very comfortable, uh, arguably too comfortable. Mm-hmm.
00:16:27.10
Speaker
in a 412 going over water. ah you know, I've been flying it for eight years now, so I've settled into, I should not be flying that thing over water. It doesn't float. Yeah. Uh, you know, we have some order changes between when I arrived and now too, but, uh,
00:16:44.81
Speaker
Yeah, just that a different environment that you're flying in, a different cockpit environment with student instructor, ah which is actually a a great environment to like the cockpit student and instructor.
00:16:58.36
Speaker
ah It's a good, comfortable place to be. ah Being the guy in charge, I'm sure most pilots like that. We're kind of driven towards it. Yeah. being Being in control. Yeah. That's what all the the training is driving you towards. right Yeah. Now you finally feel like you're, yeah, you're doing it. Yeah. When you get your max category on your operational unit. And then again, when you're an instructor. Yeah. And there's a lot of trust with a chain of command ah here. You're like, you're just authorized for your flight. Off you go.
00:17:25.21
Speaker
ah you know, your, you know, your limits play within it kind of thing. Um, whereas, uh, four, four, three or MH at the time, and it's, you're just so aircraft restricted, uh, that every flight and everything that happens on every flight needs to kind of be accounted for. Yeah. Yeah. Was that because of the, like the demands on a shrinking fleet with like high maintenance and that kind of stuff, or was it more of a leadership style thing?
00:17:51.56
Speaker
Uh, a little bit of both. Yeah. Yeah. The leadership style. It's a lot more, uh, at least ah my time there was a lot more close handed and, uh, yeah, like the aging fleet service ability.
00:18:03.29
Speaker
We still had the same number of pilots we needed to, yeah you know, spread those hours around and make sure that they're, they're very useful. Yeah. Yeah. I asked because it sounds somewhat familiar to the Aurora world in some ways,
00:18:15.96
Speaker
Yeah, I think we were we were at similar time, yeah both at a time when the CAF was... The budget was getting slashed. Every year it was getting tighter and tighter and our requirements were increasing.
00:18:28.89
Speaker
ah So it was difficult and stressful time for both being a pilot and probably in a leadership position as well, definitely. I really feel for the leaders at that time who had to...
00:18:40.09
Speaker
I guess like almost sell us on the fact like, Hey, you've got half as many hours as last year, but we need to maintain the same standards and all stay positive. Like that must've been a really difficult position. Yeah. Hard news to, to give your, your pilots who just want to fly every day. And yeah, yeah.
00:18:53.37
Speaker
Here at the school, like we have, uh, lots of aircraft, uh, lots of hours to fly. They're, they're great machines, great maintenance personnel. So really supportive.
00:19:04.18
Speaker
Yeah. That was probably the biggest highlight. If you like to fly, Going to a school is a great way to get in the cockpit for sure. I want to get into some of the kind of in-depth world of teaching.
00:19:17.75
Speaker
How do you adapt your teaching style for different students? Yeah, ah it is There's going to be a time where you're kind of feeling out your student and where they're at.
00:19:28.92
Speaker
ah You know, if you're grabbing a student at the beginning and you're taking them all the way up through the through that phase of the course, it can be. You just kind of naturally fall into it and and into their tendencies.
00:19:41.18
Speaker
But you can tell, you know, ah some students really want everything to be black and white. okay, when this happens, I do that ah kind of binary approach and other students who are just, ah you know, a little bit a bigger picture looking for ah energy management kind of stuff ah and just adapting your what how you're going to help them in a way that they'll understand.
00:20:06.90
Speaker
ah You can usually tell with your feedback. Sometimes ah the black and white binary approach, when this do that kind of thing, it it just doesn't work in helicopters. There's just too much going on. i would argue it doesn't work in general in aviation once you get like seriously into especially operating like i was a pretty black and white person in some ways and if this happens i'm going to do this if this had like i would always like run through scenario scenarios yeah but eventually you just sort of have to know how to make decisions yeah and you know we're at the point like phase three training where they're coming up with really good questions and they want to know the answer and with a lot of those questions the answer is it depends yeah depends on so many different factors and sometimes you just have to choose the lesser of two evils you know what would you say makes a strong helicopter student
00:20:59.42
Speaker
So when it comes to handling helicopters, especially with the approach that we have at 3CFFTS, is that we we understand that these students are coming from fixed wing training into helicopters and they hop into one for the first time in their lives, usually on the course.
00:21:17.18
Speaker
So the handling differences is a hurdle. There's no doubt about it. ah And we have all the time in the world for that. I mean, there is limits. Like you have to be able to achieve a certain amount at a at a certain time. But if you have a good attitude and you're studying and it's clear and you're able to answer questions that you should and you should know the answer to because it's in the material and you should be reviewing that. Mm-hmm.
00:21:42.55
Speaker
uh well there's not a single instructor there that that doesn't have all the time and in the world for you like we'll stay late we'll talk to you over lunch we'll find time between flights uh to help you go go through this and and and get that understanding so if you're like a maverick kind of guy a little bit wild You're going to find yourself in trouble one day.
00:22:05.62
Speaker
And part of the instruction is to provide emphasis on on how that's probably not the right attitude to have. So we will let it go for a while until you are like, you need to make a point where that that could have killed someone. Yeah. You could have wrecked this aircraft.
00:22:23.10
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Because that kind of attitude is usually paired with like an overconfidence in their ability. Yeah. And maybe they've done really well so far. So it hasn't bitten them yet. But you know, one day it will. Right. Like, yeah, pilot a pilot needs to be confident, but they also need to be humble.
00:22:37.07
Speaker
That's right. And I I'm sure it's the same on on phase three multi engine, the King Air, where, you know, a phase one and phase two, you're you're being taught every step of the way.
00:22:50.46
Speaker
When phase three comes, it's more of You're more like a university course where you're you're expected to do the pre-reading. You're expected to i to be in the briefing room and tell me about what it is we're doing. And I'll ask some confirmation questions and then I'll go through it with you to make sure where everyone understands what exactly is happening here.
00:23:14.04
Speaker
We don't want you practicing before ah the instructor shows you, but there, if you come in and you don't know, you know, procedure turn timings, IFR, or you don't know what sight picture our transition to the hover array is, ah that that's a problem.
00:23:32.54
Speaker
Yeah, like my philosophy as a student was always basically like, I need to know everything I can know up to, but not including doing the actual thing. That's right. all the numbers, all the facts, because your brain is going to be so full when you're actually trying to do it, that if you don't like know that other stuff cold, you're going to you're going to forget. That's right. Yeah, we try to keep it to like, you know, two to three high emphasis points during the brief where, you know, I'll ask some questions at the end. And these are the questions I'm probably going to ask you again in the flight that I need you to regurgitate almost immediately. Yeah.
00:24:08.41
Speaker
What do you think ah are common points that students tend to struggle with? for our helicopters. So there's a, you know, there's so many different phases of flight. So like the initial kind of daytime flying out, you know, you're, uh, you're out in the daytime. You're just visually flying with the ground.
00:24:26.40
Speaker
Uh, the use of ground references and and planning your your, approach path and and how you're going to maneuver the helicopter to achieve your goal. Uh, it's a very, ah like you have, need you need a high level of spatial orientation.
00:24:42.30
Speaker
you know, and projecting things on the ground and lining things up that are not painted on a runway. They're just like this bush in that puddle kind of thing can be, it's a bit of a hurdle when you're coming from fixed wing training and you just, you line up on the runway lights. Yeah. You know what i mean? or Or the center line tire marks or whatever. Right. So operating load of the ground or on the ground outside of an airport, uh, you can be a little bit of an overwhelming thing to begin with.
00:25:12.28
Speaker
And then the the pace, the pace of the of the learning, it's quite high, especially once you get into the instrument phase. Like that it's your full power, go, go, go. The planning cycle is long.
00:25:26.65
Speaker
The days are long. There's lots of flying. Every approach and departure is different. The weather changes every day and you really get a ah good look for it. Yeah. you kind of run a ah gauntlet by the end. And usually it's the students who are you know, not always prepared during the navigation and the clear hood phase where yeah I kind of give them the warning order, be like, Hey man, it, you need to be ready because the pace is going to pick up big time in the IFAs. And if they don't, they, they will trip.
00:25:56.63
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking about that as you were talking about the way they need to show up to a briefing, ready to brief you basically. yeah And I was thinking about, haven't thought about that in a while, but those briefings, just the briefing alone is so much to prepare for. You're doing it every day.
00:26:12.92
Speaker
And after you do that briefing, you got the flight and then you got your debrief and you need to absorb all that. And then you need to study to get ready to do it all again the next day with something new. It is a lot and it can be exhausting. And that's one of the things that we teach on the flight instructor course is to keep the briefings broad, get specific where you need to.
00:26:32.12
Speaker
But the last thing you want to do is have an hour and a half brief and the poor student is just exhausted and you haven't even hit the starter yet. Yep. So yeah, managing the time or spreading the brief well in advance the flight. So there's some break and, you know,
00:26:48.50
Speaker
Which I found really challenging when I was on the instructor course, ah especially if you had like a complex, like one of the first instrument flights. And there's like so many things you're supposed to review, but you're also not supposed to be more than like 45 minutes to an hour. Yeah, that that is exactly where I struggled on the flight instructor course, where it's like,
00:27:09.11
Speaker
You know, you do your brief, you're like, okay, I kept it to 30 minutes. And then your debrief point was, that was too short. You need to get all this material in there too. So the next day you go and hit all that material and your debrief point is, that was too long. Yeah. Like, well, what do you want from me? Yeah.
00:27:25.54
Speaker
you've You've talked a bit about like one day you emphasize if the student has a problematic attitude or or habits or something that one day you emphasize a point when they do something to teach them the lesson. Yeah. How do you balance safety with letting students learn from mistakes?
00:27:40.95
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, your own personal limit does play a big role in that of what kind of risk that you're willing to accept. Obviously, you have the aircraft limits, which will not be exceeded.
00:27:53.43
Speaker
And, you know, there's some aerodynamic effects that you you don't really want to play around with at all as well. But, you know, a couple thousand hours in the in the driver's seat and you you tend to be a little bit more comfortable. It's important to maintain a sense of composure for when things do get a little bit outside of the envelope of what we would call the standard maneuver.
00:28:16.54
Speaker
ah so that they have So they're confident that you're able to to correct. Yeah. Yeah. I remember on the Aurora fleet, one of the big things is like the best mentors were people who had this, and it's a very difficult skill to develop.
00:28:34.30
Speaker
It just comes with time and experience. I think the skill of giving you, we used to say giving you enough rope to hang yourself, but yeah but not actually letting you. Yeah, yeah exactly. And you know our training plans are designed for that as well.
00:28:49.88
Speaker
So you know we use a one to five rating scale. And those are defined. And, ah you know, five being like that was flawless and one being like youre you would have died.
00:29:01.69
Speaker
ah So we kind of grade within that one to five thing. And then initially every maneuver like you need a level two, which means that the instructor can be there with you moving the controls for you.
00:29:14.78
Speaker
talking you through it just enough so you don't die. But maybe you maybe you were unable to do it, but you you didn't put us in a dangerous spot. That's like a level two. So as it progresses, as a course progresses and you get more chances to practice that, the levels get up and that requires the instructor to start to back off and allow the student to self analyze and correct any any of their errors.
00:29:37.66
Speaker
So and there is plenty of time in the in the course at that level four requirement where you just need to let the student do it. And that's great for their confidence to the sooner you can get there, the better.
00:29:50.84
Speaker
What do you think is the most rewarding part of instructing? Yeah, I knew this question was coming. it's ah It's the same. It's probably every other instructor that you have interviewed.
00:30:02.94
Speaker
Most people find it really rewarding. I found it most so when I first started instructing as ah as a C-CAD even. ah Looking over at the student, giving them their good point, bad point, tip to improve.
00:30:17.50
Speaker
And like really seeing that register and then go practice again. And they're doing the tip that you gave them and avoiding the error that they did last time. And it's just like, wow, this works and it's fast.
00:30:28.86
Speaker
And because they're listening and you're employing your instructional techniques properly, it's allowing them more reps of that same thing so that they just get better and better and better.
00:30:40.25
Speaker
Um, it's kind of like a compounding effect. Yeah, it is. um as an ACAT now, like my instruction is usually for the staff.
00:30:51.35
Speaker
So it is ah it is a bit different that, uh, that jump from like a B cat line instructor to acat a uh, flight instructor course instructor is, is big.
00:31:04.12
Speaker
It's like learning all over again. You really start paying. So how do I say this when you're, this is how I i tell the the guys on the flight instructor course, like your job,
00:31:17.34
Speaker
Up until that point in their career has been to fly the helicopter. Your job now is the person sitting beside you is teaching them. So yes, you're responsible for the helicopter or the aircraft, whatever it is.
00:31:30.52
Speaker
But your main focus is the person beside you, making sure that they're looking in the right places at the right time, that they're gathering the proper information and that they're able to generate and execute a plan.
00:31:42.58
Speaker
So a lot of people can inherently go into this with, I'm just going to fly the helicopter like I always do. And it's easy to forget that your job is not necessarily the helicopter.
00:31:53.82
Speaker
Your job is the person beside you. Mm-hmm. Then when you go to a cat, your job is to teach the person that it's no longer their job to watch the helicopter. You know what i mean? I just goes like, and you play these games with a inception kind of, okay, which kind of level area am I?
00:32:10.77
Speaker
I'll play a student. Yeah. They're playing, they're learning instructing. So pretended to be a student, make mistakes. Yeah. And then they debrief me like I'm the student that I brief debrief that and it goes back and forth. And there can be like, like five layers of this. Yeah. Especially when you're teaching someone else to a cat. So now they're pretending to be a student.
00:32:30.62
Speaker
But, and I'm the instructor, but I'm a bad instructor and they're teaching me, but and then I'm teaching them. Yeah. Yeah. So it goes back and forth. It can be really confusing. Yeah. ah But I, I like that. The, I guess the rewarding part for me now is developing a good instructor and keeping them on the rails. You know, everyone comes in with a wealth of knowledge, like ah just a treasure trove.
00:32:54.45
Speaker
They're there. Everyone has a unique experience. We have multiple communities coming here. And they have a lot of information, a lot of really good information that they want to impart on their student.
00:33:05.27
Speaker
And that's, you know, that's a wonderful ah attitude to have. And we want the students to absorb as much as they can. The trouble is we can't use their flight time to do that.
00:33:18.58
Speaker
You know, you got to save some of those stories for when you're the engine's not running. Yeah. And while the engines are running, you really need to stay focused, ah which is can be challenging for some people. Yeah. Especially ones who like to talk. Yeah. Yeah. I wouldn't know anything about that. Yeah.
00:33:35.44
Speaker
We've talked a little bit about different categories. How does progression through instructor categories work? Oh, yeah. So there's three categories of flight instructor. While you're on the flight instructor course, you're a candidate, just like you are on phase three. Like you don't have your wings yet. You don't have your, know how to QFI yet. Qualified flight instructor.
00:33:54.62
Speaker
When you're done the flight instructor course, you're award awarded your CCAT QFI qualification, a qualified flight instructor. And that is like, you know, you're familiar with the training plan, you're familiar with the material and you're when the student goes out with you, they're going to progress through the course.
00:34:11.32
Speaker
And the things that you're saying and doing are correcting errors. It might not necessarily be the error that I would select in, you know, because every maneuver is going to have multiple. but you're correcting them and they're they are progressing.
00:34:25.43
Speaker
ah After 100 hours of instructional, you're eligible for a BCAT upgrade. And that is someone who's very familiar with the training plan, ah has some experience instructing, and can develop individualized training for a student who maybe struggling with a single maneuver.
00:34:44.76
Speaker
What we're looking for there brute cause. So when an error happens, like they're they're too fast on their approach, you know, we would say a C cat would be like, hey, you're too fast. Slow down.
00:34:57.98
Speaker
And then that student would slow down. A B cat would say you're too fast here because you're carrying too much energy through the window. So as you're turning, you need cross check your airspeed.
00:35:09.57
Speaker
OK, so that air happened down near the ground where you're too fast. But the root cause is way back in the flight. And that's where we want to identify and capture that.
00:35:21.98
Speaker
So that that's the B cat. And then the A cat we kind of talked about it already. That's when you're you're switching gears from teaching students to teaching instructors to teach. Yeah. Instructor candidates.
00:35:34.60
Speaker
You're in standards now. Yeah. So what is working in standards involved day to day and how is it different from line instructing? Yeah, so standards ah is it's small compared to the rotary flight.
00:35:49.58
Speaker
There's four of us like four rotary people in the standard cell plus the chief standards rotary guy as well. And there are a collection of a category instructors and the flight has like 20 plus instructors in it. So your primary duty in standards is to run the flight instructor course, ah do student tests and then staff check rides.
00:36:15.35
Speaker
So we're doing their annual proficiency checks, emergency handling checks. We're doing the instrument rating tests. We're doing category check rides and we're doing supplementary trainers for the staff.
00:36:29.75
Speaker
So it's a broad range. You're also the experts on a training plan. ah So there's lots of questions. People constantly come into the office with questions and looking for guidance.
00:36:40.73
Speaker
So you're there to provide that guidance and, you know, adjust the school and the school's approach ah to better and improve the training plans.
00:36:52.15
Speaker
So we have a multitude of projects going on at all times. Like we wrote and performed a phase two rotary course for a trial, two trial runs, which was pretty successful.
00:37:05.40
Speaker
You know, we'll upgrade the training plans. We'll provide clarity. We'll expand the ah manual of flying training, which is our maneuver manual. Yeah, there's a no shortage of of work ah and all that. And and you you need to be the expert as well. So, yeah, it's busy.
00:37:26.38
Speaker
You've talked about some training plan development and you have been involved in changes in the training plan. How complex is it to change a training plan in the RCAF? Oh yeah.
00:37:38.18
Speaker
Uh, well like administratively, i would say the process actually is pretty straightforward. Uh, we do operate with a contractor, both at three CFFTS and, uh, in Moostra.
00:37:51.35
Speaker
So there is a kind of like that, uh, extra thing to consider. and You know, like the administrative structure of the D&D at the unit and the contractor at the unit and who reports to who, like we have a regular chain of command, you know, a commandant, two Canadian Air Division, you know, director Air Force training, RCAF commander, like it's pretty laid out. Mm-hmm.
00:38:18.62
Speaker
the yeah The contractor reports only to DAST, which is Director Air Simulation and Training. okay Okay. they are the contract ah holders, not holders, but like the people. Like the administrators? Administrators of the contract. They they they give the the paycheck and the contractor reports only to them.
00:38:41.11
Speaker
So everything that we have we do at the school, we have to run through DAST. uh you know if we're extending the training plan by one day well that's extra lodgings extra food all sorts of extra costs we want to extend the course time so they have more time in the helicopter like that's more money that das has to pay out and they have to go through their whole thing public service but here in canada to get more money released etc etc so It's a complicated thing and there's a lot that happens kind of outside the scope of the school ah for making a training plan change, ah mapping it out and getting a full understanding of the training plan, the ground school, the requirements, who's teaching what, what's in this ground school, what's it gonna how long is it going to take?
00:39:31.46
Speaker
Uh, you know, it's a week long course to do the training plan manager and qualification standard course. And we have as pilots, like probably the most complicated training plan in the air force, probably in the, in the, in the CAF, to be honest, it is three phases up to four different fleets of aircraft, multiple locations.
00:39:53.46
Speaker
And, you know, there could be someone in phase two in Moose Jaw, who makes a TP adjustment. And then we find out like a year later that, you know, they're not flying at night anymore, or they've removed NDBs altogether. It's out of the aircraft now. And just for the listeners, an NDB is a non-directional beacon, and it's an older style of radio navigation aid.
00:40:14.49
Speaker
And we're we're here running our training plan expecting them to know how to do an NDB. So there's you know some organizational communication that needs to happen. And it's the the process of going through a training plan like it can't be done in isolation.
00:40:31.42
Speaker
It is, it really does need to be by committee and just finding time to get everyone together and and make a good productive meeting out of it and getting consensus on a few things is, is difficult. Uh, and our TPs are just like,
00:40:46.86
Speaker
There's information repeated all over. I think you talk to some of the older guys ah who've been there for 20, 25 years. The training plan was like 70, 60, 70 pages when they arrived.
00:41:00.50
Speaker
It's like 400 and some now. Wow. So yeah, there it is. It is deep and it requires a fine tooth comb and it takes a lot of time and effort.
00:41:12.76
Speaker
Yeah, it sounds like yeah a lot of ripple effects, a lot of ah familiarity that needs to happen with a 400 page yeah document. It's a yes, very much. It's a bit bloated, to be honest.
00:41:24.44
Speaker
ah We could probably separate some things out, but. But then that takes somebody's time and effort to that's that's the thing with like orders and manuals and stuff is you tend to add, add, add. And then eventually you realize some stuff is redundant. But who has the time now to comb through that? And yeah you you can't use like a random OJT or something because they don't have the knowledge. And yeah, it needs to be an expert. Yeah. And and experts are busy. Very busy. Yeah. Yeah.
00:41:53.26
Speaker
The good news is fact is arriving and we keep pointing at that, which is a, it's just like an organizational reset as well. Right. So they can clean a lot of things up. They're writing everything from scratch. Yeah. And honestly, we're, we're adjusting TPs in the future, the best way you possibly can.
00:42:09.72
Speaker
And that is to contract it. Yep. So now, now they do it and they have, they'll have that someone whose whole job is this whole job is just to do that. Yeah. Yeah. You've talked a little bit about that there's a lot of cross countries involved in the job.
00:42:23.61
Speaker
Yeah. What trips would you say stand out most? Like what are some of your all time cross countries you've got to do here? oh you know, there's quite a few good ones. Well, yeah I mean, we are in the prairies, like in the central plains. There is not a lot around. You really need to stretch your helicopter legs to get somewhere.
00:42:43.00
Speaker
And remember, ah you're you're a King Air guy, or you were a King Air guy, so and an Aurora guy, so I don't know, you would transit what? 1,500 miles? a long way. Go on station, do your exercise, and 1,500 back?
00:42:57.62
Speaker
I imagine. it was long yeah like the transits could be like hours yeah so we can transit yeah safely 250 ish miles once you start reaching like 300 you're really looking at the winds and alternates and and whatever right uh so it takes and we're doing 120 knot true airspeed so it's not like we're not going quick So it takes a while to get somewhere. We typically go to ah St. Paul, Minnesota, which is usually a pretty good time if you can catch like a like a Timberwolves game or a Minnesota Wild.
00:43:33.30
Speaker
ah Other cultural events happening in Minnesota all the time. ah Duluth is another great place that we go. Again, great cultural events. What have we saw? A play on ah menopause.
00:43:46.35
Speaker
I came home being like really looking over for the signs of menopause and my wife, she's not that old. Keep digging. Yeah. You know, sometimes we'll take two students and we'll get a little extra, an extra day. So you can get a little bit farther and go into St. Yeah.
00:44:03.10
Speaker
you know, trying to keep it interesting. You don't want to do the same kind of iron triangle all the time. you Right. So ah you get some good experiences. You go back, visit those people. The good ones are the staff ones for sure. This is no, you're not instructing. and You're just your proficiency yeah for your own kind of exercise, uh, getting out to BC in the mountains or we went down to, where was it? Santa Fe. Oh, nice. Yeah. So we, me and another guy went down to Santa Fe. We had to stop in Nebraska. We got snowed in. Uh, we were VFR and the visibility just came right down. So we were in some little town in Nebraska, which was an experience on its own.
00:44:42.10
Speaker
ah But what had happened was there was another crew of two helicopter pilots on a King Air who left like a day or two after us and they met us down and we swapped. So we flew the helicopter down. Oh, like they were on as passengers. Yeah. Yeah. Down to Santa Fe. We met them there, kind of high fives, handed the aircraft over. Then we jumped in the King Air and started going home. We went to Malibu.
00:45:06.93
Speaker
That's all right. And then the weather came in and we were stuck in LA for a few days, which, you know, there are much worse places to get stuck. Yeah. And we ended up doing like a late night kind of departure back after extending our stay for a little bit.
00:45:21.18
Speaker
That was a good one. That that lasted longer than it should have. Yeah. You know, full of great memories. Yeah. Yeah. I know sometimes you guys fly in mutual support, which is where there's multiple helicopters flying at once. Can you tell us about maybe one of those trips and what's different about doing that?
00:45:37.69
Speaker
Yeah. So mutual support, I guess we can define that first. ah It can easily be ah misconstrued as formation flying, but which is not.
00:45:48.28
Speaker
It is. Yes, you're flying together. You're visually referencing the other aircraft. But having freedom of movement independently amongst each other is important. hmm. You know, if you're flying low to the ground, there's birds or power lines or something.
00:46:02.84
Speaker
You need to be able to react and not worry about the person behind you colliding with you. So little extra space, little extra of room, and you can tighten up and widen out as required.
00:46:14.10
Speaker
We did a multi-fleet mutual support cross-country to Churchill. And where did we overnight in Thompson? So we went up, departed Southport, and went off like the west side of Lake Manitoba, got some gas in the Paw.
00:46:30.99
Speaker
Oh, the 206s couldn't make it that far. So I think they fueled in Brandon or Dauphin or something and then came up. We all met in Thompson, had a great time that night and then transit up to Churchill altogether.
00:46:43.80
Speaker
which is cool. and We went out there for like a polar bear watch. Uh, we saw one polar bear from like a kilometer away, yeah but it was fun. We had a great time in the Legion. Yeah.
00:46:55.64
Speaker
Yeah. That was, that was kind of neat. And we, we've done, uh, a couple, you know, staff only days where we we would launch like 10 aircraft, all the mutual support going around ah Lake Manitoba or something, just doing a clockwise kind of thing.
00:47:12.79
Speaker
Cool. All land in a field together, snap a couple of pics and yeah. When you do that, are you all on one flight plan or does everyone have their own flight plan? or No, we're all on one flight plan. Yeah. Yeah. So it's, this is where like some of the confusion happens. It it is treated like a formation flight. So yeah we have like a maximum breadth and an altitude difference that we have to maintain.
00:47:34.56
Speaker
We're all operating on an interplane frequency together. ah you know, it's the same sort of thing. Hey, you're a lead. Everyone's got their kind of broad position. and We can tighten up and and close it down ah as required. Yeah. You know, if we're transiting, we're we're pretty wide open. Yeah. And then tighten up for, a for approach.
00:47:53.91
Speaker
In late May and early June 2025, the Mathias Colom Cree Nation in Pucketawagon in northern Manitoba underwent a major evacuation due to encroaching wildfires with significant support provided by 3 Canadian Forces Flying Training School, or 3CFFDS, based here in Portage-le-Prairie, Manitoba.
00:48:12.18
Speaker
Nils was one of the pilots that was sent to respond to this. So we're going to spend some time now talking about that experience. Some listeners may recall that, well, most people in the country, most provinces experienced a pretty crazy wildfire season last summer in 2025. Manitoba was definitely no exception. And somewhat uniquely, the school was tasked to help with one up Pucketawagon. That's right. And ah yeah, like how did that oplintist tasking come about?
00:48:41.24
Speaker
It was Friday and I was on first launch and i was in a briefing room with my, with the fit candidate. And then he just out of nowhere tells me, Hey, I heard a first launch might be canceled.
00:48:56.06
Speaker
And I was like, what? I didn't hear that. So I call my boss and I was like, hey what's happening? His first launch canceled. And he didn't know either. Uh, like, hang on, I'll get back to you.
00:49:08.12
Speaker
Like, okay, anyways, let's continue with our brief thinking that it's just a bunch of, uh, it's to rumor. Yeah. Rumor. You heard something. Yeah. Uh, and then he calls me back. He's like yeah, it's canceled. And I was like, well, what's happening?
00:49:22.26
Speaker
is that ah the school has been tasked to go to Pukatawagan to help evacuate the the town. and It turns out, so there's a big wildfire up there. And i don't think there is a road. i think it's just a railroad that goes up there and an airport.
00:49:37.53
Speaker
The railroad was burnt out and the airport was also on fire. So the ah the fixed wing couldn't get in. It's a small gravel runway. It's tight with trees around.
00:49:48.63
Speaker
ah It wouldn't support like a Herc or anything. It's much too small. So kind of a unique scenario where ah aircraft that didn't need a runway it needed to go.
00:50:00.28
Speaker
ah We were by far the closest asset, a rotary asset for the Air Force. So we got tagged to do it. And was supposed to be like a one day kind of thing. Like, well, we'll get out to the PAW.
00:50:13.91
Speaker
grab our gas air and start running some people in and out or out of town, which is about, it's like maybe 90 miles, 80, 90 miles away. So we would just start transiting people for one day until ah some star griffins, 408, and then Chinooks are on the way as well. So once the Chinooks show up, they take like 40, 50 people a chalk and they can just run them out real quick. Mm-hmm.
00:50:39.26
Speaker
And so we're packing for like a one night. and You know, why I'll bring a couple extra socks and underwear, which is a good, very good thing we did. That's experience. talk Yeah. Yeah. and I was with Matt Elliott, who was a he's a pipeline instructor. So he didn't have an operational tour before he instructed with us. hmm.
00:51:02.46
Speaker
So he had never experienced anything like that before. So it was nice to have someone ah who's a very competent pilot, a smart guy, and he's super eager for the, for the experience. And you can really, there's lots of value in that attitude. Uh,
00:51:19.16
Speaker
ah So we're running people and then we are just, we're very successful in the outlaw. We had, ah we have some kit that other aircraft, RCAF aircraft don't have like ah AIS, ADS-B.
00:51:34.68
Speaker
These are all fancy terms for, we have an iPad that shows us other traffic and we can talk to each other. We know where each other are. And the military aircraft, cause we're civilian, the aircraft are, they don they don't have some of that kit. So there are some challenges there.
00:51:51.06
Speaker
And there were a lot of civil aircraft flying around doing their own evacuations, a lot of bucketing. a So like for firefighting, firefighting. Yeah. So Chinooks, civilian Chinooks and and other rotorcraft out there.
00:52:08.79
Speaker
see, we were there. ah the twin otter came from yellow knife. Uh, the coast guard was there. and we're all doing our, our best, uh, fighting over the fuel pump, uh, to get these people out.
00:52:23.38
Speaker
And, uh, There were long days. Yeah. We would get in there, ah we cram as many people as we could into the back and taxi them out of there.
00:52:34.49
Speaker
And, uh, you know, the, the smoke was very thick and the fire was really hot. we ended up doing a lot of, uh, instrument approaches to the runway and right over the final approach fix, like five miles back from the runway was like the heart of a fire. And it would be like a pyroclastic at the FAF.
00:52:55.13
Speaker
So you could kind of just, youre you'd be on approach, be like, don' go go don joke like the whole helicopter shaking, ah and you're like oh there's there's a final approach fix yeah it's been there it was there for like three days and you know the smoke would get so thick and dark that you you tend up turning the lights on and you're like suddenly you just descend into nighttime we would do our approaches ah very slow like down to 40 50 knots uh just looking down we're kind of gps guided down the runway and we're
00:53:28.44
Speaker
One guy is on the dials and the other guy is like head looking out the window straight down, trying to get a look at the runway. And then we would, you know, see the see the runway or or see the the terminal building and then just kind of stop and move vertically down.
00:53:44.79
Speaker
Well, yeah, we had ah one day. ah There's another fire kind of over by the pod just west of it. And the wind picked up. and we were up in Pogodawagan filling up our helicopter with people And luckily someone had Starlink up there. So we got a text message over WhatsApp saying, hey, the visibility is way down. It was down less than a quarter mile in the pause. So we couldn't even get into there legally. And we ended up ah talking with the emergency management management office for Manitoba. And we found some shelter for these people in Thompson.
00:54:23.61
Speaker
So we just headed east and we just found ourselves in a whole nother city on the other side of the province for one night. yeah so lots of being adaptable and keeping your your uh your options open that oh that was the same day that the chinooks even couldn't get in it was so bad in pukatawagan wow they went inadvertent imc and for listeners imc is instrument meteorological conditions it basically means the weather is below limits for vfr or visual flight rules inadvertent IMC means that they accidentally flew into conditions where they lost reference to the ground. And that would have happened because of the rapidly changing conditions with the smoke.
00:55:03.03
Speaker
And did an emergency climb out and ended up in Saskatchewan for the night. Really? Yeah. But the outlaw, what we were flying, was able to get in. Uh, and I think that was really like, uh, that was great for the air force because there was, but really showed the capabilities of the outlaw and, you know, unfortunately or fortunately uh, really showed how valuable we were for that operation and with the the capabilities that we had.
00:55:31.77
Speaker
So we ended up staying for much longer than we initially intended. Yeah. Cause it was supposed to be, like you said, a one night tasking and how long did it end up being? Was it four nights i think i spent there and then you put on there didn't they rotate more people in after that no no no that was it no we got stood down okay yeah the the smoke kind of cleared out uh we got everyone out of there yeah it was uh it was long like we would do one there and back fuel up and down we were eating and drinking while we were flying and
00:56:04.41
Speaker
uh long days for sure what what did a typical day look like like when were you starting and when were you done we were up at sunrise like six o'clock in the morning trying to be the first in line for fuel uh and then up and go and we would go until the sun went down wow yeah long days yeah definitely yeah yeah we're we're working it and and tough conditions too yeah when you're flying over the fire like that are you feeling the heat inside the helicopter No, not really. No? No, but you can you can look down and see it. Yeah. Yeah, it's quite something.
00:56:38.49
Speaker
Did you have much interaction with the people that you were picking up and dropping off? Yeah. So initially our plan was, ah you know, we would tell the, the EMO, the emergency management office that we're departing, ah please have people ready.
00:56:52.25
Speaker
And we get there, they would, they would be ready. ah But there's lots of organizing, like we're giving them hearing protection. You know, they have all got their luggage, their strollers, things like that. Mm-hmm. You know, and our plan was to not shut down, but it was just easier. And we would save gas by just shutting down, load everybody in, i you know, bring in as many people as we could, plus their dogs and load them up.
00:57:16.70
Speaker
And then we would just fire up and go again. Yeah, we were were typically. not super tight on gas when we have ah an auxiliary gas tank, but the Griffins without them, uh, they were very tight on gas. They were at like their max envelope. a Yeah. Well, they had to shut down alongside a road.
00:57:39.93
Speaker
One of them. Oh, well. Yeah. Cause they, they didn't have the same capability that we had. So we would, uh, we would depart the paw head up around the lake. ah And as we exit the control zone, we would climb up to like 8,000, 9,000 feet and just get above all the smoke and transit in. And then we would shoot ah an approach into Pugetawagon.
00:58:01.53
Speaker
ah It's RNAV only, and they didn't have an RNAV capability or have that approach in there. The Chinooks, they have RNAV, but they don't have that approach. Okay. Which for listeners, RNAV is a GPS approach.
00:58:13.88
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. In this context. Yeah. So they, uh, they were VFR. So they were flying 80, 90 miles in like very much reduced visibility, trying to find their way into Pugetawagan. That must've been pretty stressful. Oh, I can't imagine what that was like. And you know, they don't want to lose reference with the ground because then they have no way out. Mm-hmm.
00:58:38.36
Speaker
So they are, they're low and they are, they're going quick, ah trying to just, you know, following roads or lakes or trees or, or something. And then because they're taking like a snaking line, that transit is much farther.
00:58:54.68
Speaker
And one of them ended up running out of gas before they got to the pond. They had to land and, you know, I'm not sure if they ended up sleeping in the field or they got a ride back.
00:59:06.71
Speaker
And a fuel bowser had to go in and buy and fuel up their helicopter and before they could come back. Yeah. But I mean, you know, that's what you do, right? When you're saving lives, like you push it to the max envelope and you know, that they got more people out that way. And that's just, that's the the cost of doing business sometimes. Like everybody was still safe at the end of the day. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. and They wouldn't do it with, they wouldn't take unnecessary risks. Right. Yeah, for sure.
00:59:32.12
Speaker
Yeah, when we were in Pocatawagan, the fire was was right there. ah The airport's all charred, covered in ash, which was a hazard in itself. is the first Our first approach in there, you know we're a helicopter, 10,000 pounds, and it's got quite a bit of downwash.
00:59:51.38
Speaker
And if a place has just been covered in ash, like it is going to pick it all up and recirculate it. So there was yeah i have lots of reduced visibility. Yeah. What was it like to see all these people like who are, you know, losing their homes, having to get evacuated?
01:00:07.94
Speaker
There's a lot of empathy coming out, right? Like you're, you can't imagine that. having to do that with your family. Like you got your whole life packed up into a suitcase and, and you're going on to some helicopter who's hopefully taking to the to the place that you think you're going, which didn't happen for the people that we picked up when we went to Thompson.
01:00:27.19
Speaker
So, ah you know, a lot of them came to Portage, actually. And your wife and my wife were helping out with that. And it was it was good. we We did our evacuation. And then we took some time to go up there to the Kennedy and the hotel where they were staying at here and just volunteer a little bit more of our time to help these people who are in another town and a whole other world. Everything got flipped upside down for them and just...
01:00:52.47
Speaker
yeah yeah show them some empathy and and and engage with them there yeah that was a crazy time for our town like it was all hands on deck yeah who can help who's got medical knowledge like yeah just categorizing and trying to organize and even just figure out who was where and you know people are looking for their relatives and all this crazy stuff yeah and you know my job was to pick them up from a and bring them to b and then i don't know who these but i don't get their names or anything uh And they asking, where's my family? I'm like, ah I don't know.
01:01:24.98
Speaker
Yeah, that must have hurt. EMO's office was the one keeping track of all that. Yeah, trying to anyway. Yeah. yeah So we're getting ready to wrap up here. um i know that when I was an operational pilot and the opportunity would come around, hey, you know, who wants to get posted to Portage? And it was like everyone was hiding under their desks. Yeah. I feel like when you're an operational pilot, you think that's like all you want to do.
01:01:50.74
Speaker
yeah How would you explain to people who maybe feel that way, like the benefits of being in Portage? Yeah. Uh, I mean, everyone is seeking meaning in what they're doing, right? So when you're operational, like you have a very clear prerogative, like you're, you are operational. You're the pointy tip, whether you're doing search and rescue or anti-submarine warfare or your, your tactical helicopters.
01:02:21.46
Speaker
Uh, And you get comfortable in that environment and you, you enjoy, ah accomplishing what you're set out to do. And when you hear the word, Oh, go to a school.
01:02:33.27
Speaker
You're like, Oh man, like what am there's no meaning there initially. ah But it it is rewarding. It really is. ah There's lots of opportunity to have an influence on other people. There's a lot of opportunity to grow as a pilot.
01:02:52.63
Speaker
Really, like some of the skills that we teach ah are not naturally developed on an operational unit. And then if you're like, you want to go teach in your operational unit at the operational training fleet, then, uh, you know, coming to a place like Portage to learn the learn instructing, and then taking that knowledge either back to your unit or to your OTU would be, it's a great asset for the air force. you you have a lot, you will have a lot of knowledge to, to bring back.
01:03:26.24
Speaker
Mm-hmm. And you know, you're shaping young minds here, but you're also, you are becoming a master at your trade and there's, there's a lot of value there too. Yeah. And that's kind of the professional side. What about the personal side?
01:03:39.93
Speaker
Oh, personally, like it doesn't get much better. Uh, you know, you're typically Monday to Friday, eight to four kind of thing. Uh, the, the pace of life is good.
01:03:51.45
Speaker
if you've got a young family, there's no better place to be, uh, especially if you want to keep flying. Yeah. So you can fly as much as you want. Really? It, uh, it's really good for that.
01:04:03.58
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. My final question for you is if you could give prospective helicopter students who are going to end up on the phase three course advice, what would it be?
01:04:15.45
Speaker
Oh, good question. Just to come in with ah with a good attitude. We understand it's going to be different and it's different in a few ways. When we talked a little bit about being more like university level where you need to come prepared. Mm-hmm.
01:04:30.42
Speaker
That can be a big shift, but you know, the airframe and how it operates and the way it feels like I remember my first takeoff in a helicopter thinking about how unnatural it felt to not be doing like, I don't know what, what was it? 70 knots down the runway before pulling back and lifting where you just kind of float up into the air. Mm hmm.
01:04:51.82
Speaker
it's that strange feeling. Uh, we understand like everyone's going to have that experience and there's going to be, ah some handling and and whatever like, you're going to grow a lot ah And that your instructors are are there to help you.
01:05:08.12
Speaker
ah i like to say that we're we're like puppies or like like little dogs. Like you give us a little bit of attention and we'll be all over you. You you completely ignore us and we'll we'll probably leave you alone.
01:05:22.42
Speaker
ah So yeah, this is coming in with a good attitude. Be prepared. And we have an awesome instructor cadre. Everyone who's there wants to be there. And they're all really good.
01:05:36.99
Speaker
Cause I train them.
01:05:40.82
Speaker
All right, man. I just want to thank you again for coming in here today. Nils literally got out of a SIM today, ate his lunch in the car while he drove here and then gave up his time during a a workday, which he's going to go now back to work. Yeah. So he gave up his lunchtime to be here today. So he'd get this one recorded. i really appreciate it. i always love talking to you. Yeah. And if if we can also get an episode out of it, how great is that? So sweet thanks, man. Yeah, no problem.
01:06:05.72
Speaker
All right, that wraps up our chat with Captain Nils Olsen, all about his time instructing here in Portage La Prairie at 3CFFTS, as well as the Op Lentis response to the 2025 Manitoba wildfires.
01:06:18.46
Speaker
For our next episode, we'll be sitting down with Captain Troy Clark, a CH-149 Cormorant pilot, instructor at 3CFFTS, all-around great guy, and to boot, the person I bought my house from when we moved here here to Portage.
01:06:31.77
Speaker
Do you have any questions or comments about anything you've heard in this show? Would you or someone you know make a great guest or do you have a great idea for a show? You can reach out to us at thepilotprojectpodcast at gmail.com or on all social media at atpodpilotproject.
01:06:45.27
Speaker
And be sure to check out that social media for lots of great videos of our RCAF and mission aviation aircraft. As always, we'd like to thank you for tuning in and ask for your help with the big three. That's like and follow us on social media, share with your friends and follow and rate us five stars wherever you get your podcasts. That's all for now. Thanks for listening.
01:07:04.27
Speaker
Keep the blue side up. See ya.