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Welcome to All things… Episcopal where we talk about anything and everything related to the Episcopal church. This podcast was designed with young people ages 18-39 in mind and a place to learn more about The Christian faith with the Episcopal lens.
>> Clare: Hello, everyone. Welcome to All Things Episcopal, where we talk about anything and everything related to the Episcopal Church. This podcast was designed with young people in mind and as a space to learn more about the Christian faith with the Episcopal lens. So, in traditionally Episcopalian greeting fashion, the Lord be with you.
>> Mother Karen: Welcome back to another episode of All Things Episcopal. This is your host, Karen Schlabaugh from the Episcopal Diocese of Kansas. And I am super excited to welcome the Right Reverend Craig Loya, 10th Bishop of Minnesota, to the pod today. Um, the first time I met Bishop Loya was when he was the campus missioner at the. At Kansas State University in Kansas. And we were doing like, a grand opening of the remodeled chapel at the KU House, and Craig was preaching, and I got there last, so I ended up in the front row. And, uh, if you know Craig, he has a booming voice. And so here I was in the front row and I was like, wow, this guy.
>> Craig Loya: Cool.
>> Mother Karen: So that is my first impression of Bishop Loya. Welcome.
>> Craig Loya: Thank you. I'm really glad to be here. I have been a huge fan of yours for a long time, Karen, and grateful for our friendship. So I'm glad to be here on the podcast.
>> Mother Karen: Thanks. Uh, I'm also joined by my co host, the Reverend Claire Sternberbano. Hey, friends. All right, to start off, Bishop Loya, we'd love to have you introduce yourself, tell us a bit about your journey with the Episcopal Church. Have you always been an Episcopalian? Do you have experiences as a youth or a young adult in the church? How did you decide to become a priest? And because perfection is boring, please share one glorious unfun fact about yourself. The weirder, the better.
>> Craig Loya: There are, um, so many gloriously unfun facts about myself, so it'll be hard when I come to that to choose just one. So I grew up as, as you know, Karen, in western Nebraska, and I grew up kind of nominally Lutheran. So, uh, church was not a huge part of my experience growing up, not a huge part of my family's identity. So we kind of attended a Lutheran church occasionally, but I never really felt like I was Lutheran as kind of a core identity. And I really found the Episcopal Church when I was in college through, uh, an ecumenical campus ministry. So I attended a Presbyterian college in a small town in Hastings, Nebraska. And as part of that, it looks like Claire did too. As part of that, I participated in ecumenical campus ministry. And we, you know, visited lots of different Christian faith traditions and other world religion traditions. And I found myself in college really being drawn to the scriptures in particular, and as I started to study the Scriptures, both formally in classes in college, and also just informally found myself longing to be part of a larger community. And so through the campus ministry, I found the Episcopal Church in Hastings, which is this wonderful little pro cathedral, and really just fell in love with it the first time that I was there. So that's how I became an Episcopalian. And in terms of my experience as an Episcopalian as a young adult, I went to seminary right when I finished college. So I graduated from college in May and started seminary that July. And so really my experience as, ah. And I've only been an Episcopalian for about a year at that point. And so my experience as a young adult in the Episcopal Church was as a seminarian. You know, I joke now, a lot of people when they're 22 or 23 are pretty mature. I really should not have been allowed to leave the house without a parent at that point in my life. And I was in seminary. So um, so that was really my experience as a young adult in the Episcopal Church, uh, was in seminary. So that's a little bit of my background. And one unfun thing about me is that I do not like Christmas music and I do not like Christmas decorations. Now to be clear, as a bishop of the church, I love Christmas. I love celebrating the incarnation of Jesus among us. But I do not like any secular Christmas music and find it really tiresome through the whole three month season that we hear it. And I like a handful of sacred Christmas music, but certainly not all of it. And I really find the whole idea of Christmas decorations to be more oppressive than fun.
>> Mother Karen: Uh, two thoughts are the candidate of the ordinary in Kansas, Patrick Funston must have learned that from you because he is the same way. And um, ah, as someone who follows you on social media, I feel like every year you change the Noel on the, uh, mantle to Leon.
>> Craig Loya: Um, I think that's my little adolescent way of protesting the oppression of Christmas decorations. And part of why I don't like it is it's like every, we're all, everybody's really busy, everybody has too much to do. And then it's like, well, let's just create one more thing that we all have to do when, when we're already busy and overwhelmed. The one exception to that is that in our home, my wife Melissa a few years ago bought a, with no consultation, bought a glorious pink Christmas tree. That uh, is the one exception to. I thought I would hate it, thought it was the craziest idea and I love it. It's the most awesome thing. So the one piece of Christmas decorations that I love is our fantastic pink Christmas tree that goes up in our living room every year.
>> Mother Karen: That's amazing.
>> Clare: I feel like your wife and I will be best friends. I don't own a pink Christmas tree, but as Karen can test, I love things that are pink, purple, and glittery.
>> Mother Karen: Well, we should. We should definitely interview Melissa on this podcast because she is also.
>> Craig Loya: You should. She's awful. Yeah.
>> Clare: So, Bishop Loye, you shared that, um, foundational part of your spiritual life and ultimately path to ordained ministry really started out with a curious heart, an inquiring heart for the scriptures. I'm curious if you can share with us, um, a particular biblical passage or story from Jesus life that has special meaning to you or resonance in your life. Perhaps a go to verse or story when you need reassurance?
>> Craig Loya: Yeah, I think probably for. For a lot of us, it has changed and evolved over time. And in different seasons of my life and ministry, I've been more drawn to or informed by different particular passages in scripture or stories. I'd say in. In recent years, there's been two places that I keep coming back to in the scriptures that really both, I think, equally chall and nourish me in this season. And the first one is the very beginning of Genesis 12, which is the call of Abraham. And the thing that I keep coming back to about the story of the call of Abraham is that he's 75 years old and he does not know this God who all of a sudden comes to him and says, hey, Abraham, here's the deal. What I want you to do is I want you to pick up and leave everything that you have known. And I am going to make you, at 75 years old, the father of many nations. And all you have to do is pick up and set off for a destination that you have never seen and to which you do not know how to go. And he doesn't. And so what I love about that story is Abraham leaves everything that he's known relying on nothing but the outrageous promises of God. And I think that is part of what we, in this moment in the life of the Episcopal Church, are being invited to relearn. What does it feel like to set out with nothing to rely on but the outrageous promises of God? So I'm not. I certainly don't know how to do that. But I come back to that passage over and over because I think it's part of what we are being invited to in this moment in the life of the Church. And the other thing, the other passage that I keep coming back to over and over, particularly since I've been a bishop, is that magnificent vision in Revelation 22 of the Tree growing by the streams of the water of life. And there's that great line that the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations. And it's such a. Such a magnificent vision of how God's story ends and what it is that we're called to participate in. So, you know, we live in the midst, as all of us know, of a world that is profoundly broken and profoundly painful and where hope can often feel hard to come by. And I think part of what it means to follow the way of Jesus is to hold that vision in front of us, even in the midst of the deepest and most painful things that we experience that. That our work really is to participate and join God's project to heal the world with love.
>> Mother Karen: That leads so perfectly into the next question. Good job.
>> Craig Loya: Good.
>> Mother Karen: Um, but I just. I like. A huge reason why I wanted to have you on the podcast is because I want you to talk a little bit about the work you're doing in Minnesota. Like, I have been so, like, impressed and inspired by the goals and the, um, the focus areas that you have set there. And, like, I read about, like, I read your. Your convention address, and I was just like, this just. It makes me want to follow Jesus again. Like, you know, like, not that I ever stopped following Jesus, but, like, it just, like, inspires me to do more of this work when I see what's happening up there. And so. So I know there's four core areas just to let everyone else in on the secret discipleship, faithful innovation, justice, and congregational vitality. So I'm just wondering if you can talk a little how that's going, and what is something happening there that you're especially excited about?
>> Craig Loya: Yeah. So, um, when I first became bishop, I really worked with a group of leaders around the diocese to take the work that they did during the bishop transition process and out of that kind of aspirational vision, articulate those four priorities that you named Karen. And so really what we're trying to do is to have that shape our work together as a diocese. And the best way that I can describe what our vision in the Diocese of Minnesota is, is to join the Holy Spirit in cultivating a, uh, diverse church ecology by focusing on the basic practices of what it has always meant, to follow the way of Jesus. So, as we all know, it's a time in the life of the Church where there is great institutional transformation and great institutional uncertainty. And what we're trying to do in the Diocese of Minnesota is in the midst of that institutional transformation and uncertainty, just double down our focus on what does it look like to apprentice our lives to the way of Jesus, and what does it look like, having apprenticed our lives to Jesus, to join Jesus's work in the world, which it turns out is both very simple and very hard. And so that's, that's what we're trying to do in Minnesota. And I think what has been wonderful is the way, the resonance that that has gained around the diocese. So a lot of our congregations have adopted those four priorities as their four priorities and then adapted those into their own unique context. So how, how we go about the work of justice will look different, obviously, in congregations of different size, of different makeups, of different contexts. How we center that core work of discipleship, of apprenting ourselves to the Jesus looks different everywhere. So those priorities have gained a lot of traction in the diocese because as I said in my convention address this last year, the gospel doesn't need to be novel. There's nothing about those four priorities that's new or that's, uh, novel or that's honestly even particularly creative. It's really just how are we framing what does it look like in any season to follow the way of Jesus? And the thing that I'm probably most excited about is in the area of faithful innovation. You know what, what we mean when we talk about faithful innovation in the Diocese of Minnesota is how do we create new kinds of Christian communities that will engage new people with, uh, the good news of Jesus Christ. One of the things that is clear to anybody who's a leader in the church, anybody who's paying attention, is that much of what we've inherited in terms of institutional forms and struct we will not likely be carrying with us for the long term future. And so, but none of us can know what, what will the full shape of the church that is to come look like. None of us can fully see it. And so this is a time when we're called to adopt a spirit of playfulness, of experimentation, of practicing new forms of Christian community. And so the most exciting thing happening in Minnesota is we have a large group of lay and ordained leaders who are engaged in this work of experimenting with new forms of Christian communities that are attached to existing congregations and that are really trying to reach people with the gospel of Jesus that are not already in our churches. And it's been exciting to See the amount of energy that has been unleashed in the diocese as people engage in that work.
>> Clare: I really appreciate your response to that about innovation, because that's actually how this podcast started. Um, because before I was ordained, uh, I sat on the commission for college and young adult ministry in West Missouri. And we don't have Canterbury Houses like the Diocese of Kansas does and so many others. And there was this gap for, you know, college and young adult age group, um, and we didn't have very much money for it. And I was like, well, the largest population that listens to podcasts is like 18 to 30 year olds. Why not like use some low hanging fruit and try that? And it's flourished. Um, we have gotten emails from people who are curious about the Episcopal Church and have actually used the podcast as a stepping stone to going back into church and understanding the why, of why we do the things we do as Episcopalians. So I'm like shaking all of my internal pom poms right now for that core, um, core area of focus of faithful innovation. I, I love that. And with that said, what is the most surprising thing you've learned from focusing on these four core issues?
>> Craig Loya: Yeah, I, I would say, um, I mentioned this earlier, but I would say the thing that's been most surprising is how simple the work that we are called to in this complex moment can actually be. That we are not actually called to do things that are fundamentally different than what followers of Jesus have done for centuries. So when I talk about faithful innovation, I think the thing that has surprised me is I've learned that innovation in the church is not necessarily about doing new things, it's about doing old things in new ways. And so it surprised me that we don't, we don't have to make up what it is we need to do in this moment. And the other thing that has surprised me is how hard it will be for our church to, to fully engage in the core work of this moment. You know, over time, I think what happened, not, uh, this is not just true of the Episcopal Church, it's true of the, the Christian movement pretty, pretty broadly. But you know, the way that I talk about it is in the earliest church, in the earliest days of the church, the church was a movement that was charismatic and improvisational and a little chaotic and diverse. And that movement was started by people whose lives have been changed by an encounter with the risen Jesus, by a very real encounter. And over time, you know, movements can't last if they don't develop some institutional structure. So institutional structures are Critical to sustain a movement. And so over time, the structures of the church came to. Came in behind the movement in order to support and sustain. And then at some point along the way, gradually, we sort of adopted the mindset that the structures are the point and that the, um, the purpose of church is to exist or to survive. And so you all will know, I don't think it's fundamentally different in Minnesota or in Kansas or in West Missouri or anywhere else in the Episcopal Church that so many of our congregations are so focused, understandably, on how do they preserve the institutional form that has been inherited. What I'm trying to do as bishop is really invite people, at least for the moment, to not worry about the institutional structure for a season and to refocus on what it means to reignite the movement. What does it mean to tether our own hearts so tightly to the living God that it animates everything we do as we show up in the world, and then trust that whatever institutional forms and structures are needed to sustain that movement will grow in behind that movement, uh, just as they did in the ancient church. So the degree to which that will challenge us as a church culture has been surprising to me. So both how simple it is and how hard it is.
>> Mother Karen: Yeah, I. I kind of laughed when you described the early church. Charismatic, chaotic, diverse, like. And I was like, that does not sound like the Episcopal Church at all. Um, so, yeah, I can see why that freaks people out. Right. We. We're trying to preserve this thing because it's what we've known and it's what we love.
>> Craig Loya: But, like, I. I think it's. I think that that's true, and I think that's changing. You know, I don't certainly, uh, in the places in the. I'm spending time, you know, and particularly the group that you all are working with among younger people and others, you know, there is this profound hunger for something that is spiritually deep and rich and substantive and meaningful. And so I think few people would describe the Episcopal Church, to your point, Karen, as charismatic and chaotic. But I think that's changing, you know, and I, um, think as younger Episcopalians emerge more and more into roles of leadership, that gives me great hope where I'm already seeing it, and I think we're only beginning to see the potential for that. So while this moment is hard, I don't think there's ever been a time in my ministry where I've been more hopeful about the future of the Episcopal Church.
>> Clare: One more time for the folks in the back. Yes, yes. Yes. So many yeses to that. Karen and I, we were just part of a, uh, spiritual retreat for young adults on Saturday and yesterday after my third service and presiding for the first time with. Right one, which I absolutely love hearing, but actually presiding over it. Totally different experience. My mind was mush. And I've read through the surveys of the participants from that retreat and all of them said having a sense of groundedness with silence and the use and understanding of the Anglican prayer beads was something that was deeply enriching to them in their spiritual life. And so to your point about young people yearning for something that is deeper and richer in their spiritual life is very true, at least where we are serving right now. And that it really is something that young people are taking to heart.
>> Craig Loya: Um, yeah, I was just a few weeks ago I was visiting one of our larger congregations in St. Paul and they're, they're growing pretty significantly in recent years and they're particularly growing among younger people. And I met a group of young adults at this church in St. Paul that are gathering every night together online to say compline.
>> Mother Karen: Every night.
>> Craig Loya: And they're having every night or you know, five nights a week and they, and then they are having dinner together once a week. And as I was listening to them, they were talking to me about how what they're really longing for is a, uh, kind of almost like an intentional community. They're not living together, but they're actively discerning what does it look like for us to adopt some of the patterns of an intentional community when we're not living together. And I was just blown away by that because I do think that the long term future of the church will require us to form those small, intense communities of disciples that can support people in, um, the core work of practice and witness and resistance to the forces of evil in the world. So it's stories like that and like the one that you shared, Claire, that I'm just seeing over and over and over around the church with young people in particular.
>> Clare: Hey, they're putting into practice the will you continue in the teachings of the apostles and breaking of the bread, like taking that baptismal covenant to heart. Woo hoo.
>> Craig Loya: Amen.
>> Mother Karen: So this is a podcast designed for young adults. And so I'm really curious if your work, uh, as a campus missioner has informed your work as a bishop and how that influences what you do now.
>> Craig Loya: Yeah, I would say it 100% does. As you know, Karen, that when I was hired as the campus missioner in the Diocese of Kansas, I think I was 26 or 27 years old, something like that. Um, and so my work as a campus minister was a core part of my formation as a leader in the church. And so I'd say so much of everything that I do as an ordained leader today, the foundations for that were laid when I was doing campus ministry. And I would say the big thing that I took from my time in campus ministry is that ministry with college students in particular, requires us to meet them where they are on their own terms, engaging the questions that they have. And, you know, because, as you know, when I was doing campus ministry in Kansas, the model that we were trying to develop was really, how do we assist parishes, local congregations, and engaging with college students? And. And that really requires, first and foremost, us to go where the college students are. And. And that's a. That's a huge shift from the way we often think about our work in the Episcopal Church, which is like, hey, everybody should come. It's awesome here. You know, which it. Which it totally is, and everybody should come. But it. That starts with meeting people where they are. And there's something so profound about that because that is exactly what the Incarnation is. It is God meeting us on our own terms, in our own place and in our own language. And so I think that is true for ministry with college students. And as I've, uh, worked in a variety of different contexts, it's not fundamentally different with any other group of people. So a lot of the faithful innovation work that we're doing right now in the Diocese of Minnesota, it's the same idea. These. These new Christian communities that we are experimenting with and trying to start are really about how do we meet people with the good news of Jesus where they already are, rather than starting with how do we recruit them or attract them to join our congregations? And I'd say my. Both the theology and the practice of that, I learned from campus ministry.
>> Mother Karen: There's, uh, so often that I am talking about my work with youth or what young people need, and then, like, as I say, whatever it is, I'm like. But really, like, that's actually what adults need too. And, you know, like, it just. It really applies to, uh, all ages when you get something figured out. I think so, yeah.
>> Clare: Sometimes I think adults need it even more than, you know, the young people, because we've been hit with all of the harsh realities of the world at a much faster speed for longer time. Um, and our resilience to keep that hope and to preserve it is harder.
>> Craig Loya: Yeah. So, yeah, I think that's true. And, you know, another thing that I learned from that work in campus ministry is that when I was working with a congregation that would learn how to engage students on their own terms and in their own place, everybody is changed by that encounter. You know, every time we encounter someone whose experience is different than ours, it changes both us who are encountering them, and it changes the one who's encountered. So I saw congregations, uh, in the Diocese of Kansas that really fully threw themselves into this work to be re enlivened and re energized. And, um, they came alive again through that work of meeting people where they are. And so I think in the Diocese of Minnesota, what we're learning is a lot of these new Christian communities that we're experimenting with and playing with. You know, a lot of them will not last for very long. You know, a lot of them may kind of grow up, and, um, they may last for a year or two years, or they may not gain traction at all. But. But the very act of, uh, meeting new people with the good news of Jesus will transform the congregations that already exist and make them more vital and more resilient and more able to engage that work over and over again. So.
>> Clare: Good. You talked about being the most hopeful in your ministry right now. I'm curious if you can expand on that by talking about what is your dream for the future of the church.
>> Craig Loya: Yeah, so, you know, my dream for the future of the church really is, uh. Well, let me come at it this way. When a lot of people look at the Episcopal Church right now, it's easy to imagine that, well, in the future we will have fewer congregations than we have now. And that's, I suppose, a logical assumption to make. But the question that I'm asking in Minnesota, and that I would want to ask of the whole Episcopal Church, is what if in the future we didn't have fewer congregations than we have now? What if we had a lot more? But what if the congregations that we're starting are all intentionally very small and they're meeting in homes or in public spaces or borrowed spaces? And what if those new communities that we're starting of, say, I'm talking about seven people, 10 people, these new communities that we're starting, what if they were tethered in different ways to our inherited existing congregation? So. So my dream for the future of the church is that we're this vast network of love and care of very small, very intense congregations that show up looking and acting like Jesus in the world. At some point along the way, we Started to make an idol of the big church. So Jesus told us to make disciples. That's a, uh, commandment. We don't have a choice about that. But we often imagine that what Jesus said was make large congregations. And I would say those two things are not incompatible. I know a lot of large congregations that make. That are. That are in the core business of making disciples. But making disciples and making large churches are also not exactly the same thing. And so I think the kind of depth and substance and challenge that I find people are looking for, particularly young people, you can't really do that with 500 people. So I dream of a future church that is this vast network of smaller congregations that are intense in their commitment to one another and to the world. And so that we really have this diverse ecology of different forms and expressions of what the church means. And just like in a forest, none of all of the plants don't look the same, but they're all interdependent. They all need each other. They gain nourishment and strength from each other.
>> Mother Karen: I think that's so interesting because, like, I feel like the large churches that are doing well, like, the first thing that they do is create small groups, like, oh, we need small dinner groups, or we need small Bible study groups or something. And so, like, they sort of know that that is what. What is needed, you know, not just the huge church.
>> Clare: It's the secret sauce.
>> Craig Loya: Yeah. So I want to be clear when I talk about my. That dream for the church, I want to be clear that, you know, don't hear what I'm not saying. I'm not saying that we don't want large congregations or that congregations shouldn't grow. Uh, absolutely, that's a good thing. But. But I think to your point, Karen, you're exactly right, that in my own experience, being in growing congregations, you know, the big. The smaller you have to become and. Or the smaller that you have to organize. So whether whether you have, you know, 10 small groups of 10 people in a congregation of a hundred, or whether you have 10 micro churches that are out in the community that occasionally connect with one of our established congregations, you still have the same number of disciples. And so, um, again, the point is not how do we sustain an institutional model, but how do we light up the world with the love of Jesus.
>> Mother Karen: Um, just moved. And I just want to sit in those words for a little bit. My, uh, next question is, what do you say to young people who maybe love Jesus but aren't so sure about the church?
>> Craig Loya: Yeah, I would say what the church needs more than anything else, what the world needs more than anything else is people who are in love with the way of Jesus. So if you are a young person, or honestly a person of any age who loves Jesus, there is nothing that we need more in the church than that. And of course, we all know the church is, um, a broken, limited, failing human institution. It's made up of human beings. So the church has, you know, at different points in history, the church has been complicit in all kinds of horrendous evils, both on a macro level. And then we all know stories of individuals who have been wounded and harmed in real ways by the church. So there's always. That's always a risk in human community. That's always going to be a feature in human community. But we will be the best church that we are capable of being to the extent that we have people who make up our membership who are in love with Jesus. And so if there are young people who love Jesus, we need those voices to challenge, to change, and to help shape who we are as a church together.
>> Mother Karen: So for our listeners, Claire and I are both, like, grinning and clapping and. Yes, absolutely. Um, okay, we have, uh, a few minutes for our if time questions that I'm excited about. So when you were in Kansas, you came to. We had, like, a youth ministers retreat, and someone asked you for three unique things you'd learned about Kansas during your time there. Um, you know, one of them was that like, like in Topeka, someone had named themselves the Pope.
>> Craig Loya: That's right. I totally forgotten about that. That is so true. It's amazing that you remember that. Wow.
>> Mother Karen: Um, and so I am just curious, like, same question for Minnesota is, as you've traveled the state and visited all the parishes there, what are three unique things that you have discovered about the state of Minnesota?
>> Craig Loya: Yeah, I would say the first thing is that I have never lived anywhere that has the stunning geographic diversity that Minnesota has. I'm not sure a lot of people know that about Minnesota that it has. We sit at the intersection of three distinct continental ecosystems. The kind of western prairie ecosystem, the sort of eastern deciduous forest, river valley system, and the northern boreal forest system. And so as you drive around Minnesota, you know, it's 87,000 square miles, so it's like, like a big state. And as you drive around Minnesota, you can be in the southwestern corner and then drive up to the north shore of Lake Superior. And, I mean, it's like you're on different planets geographically. You know, it's so it's so stunning and diverse. So that's, that's a thing that I did not know that I've learned. Another thing that I think I didn't know before coming to Minnesota, and I'm not sure a lot of people do either, is that culturally, ethnically, it's extraordinarily diverse. And, and that is, that's an incredible gift that we have. You know, not only do we have people who have come to Minnesota from all over the world, but, um, but even the different geographic regions have their own distinctive cultures within that. Um, so it's an incredibly diverse place culturally. The Diocese of Minnesota, on any given Sunday, we worship in six different languages regularly, which is an incredible gift. Two really important things that I've learned about Minnesota, maybe one thing that is a little funnier is that I have also learned about called Minnesota nice, which you may have heard of. And we consider ourselves nice in Nebraska, but I think in Nebraska that is genuinely like what you see is what you get niceness in Minnesota. Minnesota nice is sort of a, uh, sort of an understated, mildly passive aggressive way of avoiding conflict, you know. So I'll tell you a quick story about how I've come to experience Minnesota Nice. I'll tell you the story of the nicest thing anybody has ever said to me in Minnesota. And I'll tell you about the meanest thing anybody has ever said to me in Minnesota. The nicest thing anybody ever said to me is in my first year as bishop, I visited a small congregation and there was a woman there who was at the service, who was in her midnight. And after the service her daughter drove her home. And then her daughter had to come back to the church and I was still there visiting with some people at the church. And when her daughter came back into the church after dropping her 95 year old mother off at her home, said, I just have to tell you that when we were in the car on the way home, my mom looked at me and she said, the new bishop is all right. And she said, you have to understand that in Minnesota is like, that is her doing cartwheels. Like, you will not get a more enthusiastic affirmation than a 95 year old Minnesotan saying the new bishop is all right. On the flip side of that, the meanest thing that anybody has ever said to me is as I was leaving a visitation one Sunday, an older woman in the kitchen as I was leaving, I was, I was saying goodbye. And she said, well, Bishop, you've given us a lot to think about. And I looked at her and I said, oh. I said, that really hurts. So there's this. There's this, um. There's this idea of Minnesota Nice. Which is mildly passive aggressive, but it comes from just a kind of emotional understatement and reserve and just a desire to not have direct conflict, which. Which can be culturally challenging in Minnesota. And I also find it super endearing.
>> Mother Karen: That's great.
>> Clare: I imagine that takes a lot of patience sometimes and, like, a moment of pause to think, how am I supposed to pastorally respond to this right now? Because. Yeah. So many thoughts there.
>> Mother Karen: Yeah.
>> Craig Loya: Yeah. I tend to. I tend to just. I think being in Minnesota has made me. And maybe being a bishop has made me much more direct than I used to be. And I've seen the value in, um. I just think in the Christian community in particular, we should love each other enough to tell each other the truth. And we can say hard things to each other, and it doesn't. We still love each other. You know, we're still family. Nobody's going anywhere. And there's something that can be really transformational in communities when someone is not afraid to just say a hard thing. And I really appreciate it when people have been super direct with me and have, uh, said a hard thing to me. Yeah.
>> Clare: I think it's Brene Brown that says clearness is kindness.
>> Craig Loya: Yes, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.
>> Clare: But with that practice of clearness being kindness, I imagine that that can get really tiring sometimes. And thank goodness for sabbatical.
>> Mother Karen: Right.
>> Clare: Even though I'm very, very new to this whole ordained ministry thing, I can, um. I can appreciate, you know, seven, ten years from now that being part of the journey.
>> Mother Karen: Five to seven. Five to seven, Claire.
>> Clare: Five to seven. Okay. I thought it was seven to ten.
>> Craig Loya: Back that timeline up a little bit.
>> Clare: Yeah, my bad. See, I don't know things yet. Anyways, so with that being said, I've heard through the grapevine that you are getting ready to go on sabbatical. What do you plan to focus on during your time of rest? Um, hopefully it's going to be restful. And what are you excited about for sabbatical?
>> Craig Loya: Yeah, that's a. Thanks for asking that question. It's been a journey for me, as Karen knows, because she's known me a long time. I am, um. I'm really a workaholic. Not in a great way. That's a. Ah. That's another thing about me that's just not a great thing about me is I. I'm a workaholic. And partly it's Like, I really. I really love what I do. I don't think I've ever felt as called to anything as I feel called to this work that I'm doing now. So I know that I need to take a sabbatical. But six or eight months ago, I was really struggling with, you know, not wanting to do it, because honestly, I don't want to not. I like what I do. I don't want to not do it for three months, you know, But I think a lot of trusted people here in Minnesota have convinced me, you know, it's really critical for. For any number of reasons, not just for me, but I think when a leader goes away, it's good for the community, too. Like, I think it will be. I think the diocese needs me to be. To go away as much as. As much as I need it. And. And so I totally get that. I really started out. When I started a year or two ago thinking about sabbatical, I had some pretty ambitious plans, and I have some great staff here and some others trusted folks in Minnesota who, as I started to talk about these plans, they were like, that sounds really worky. Just sounds like you're going to be working most of the time, you know, and so I've really dialed those back. And so my sabbatical is going to be in three. It's three months in the summer, so it's going to be in three parts. The first part is my son, Asa, who's 10, really loves baseball, and so the bulk of his baseball season is in June. So we're not going to travel anywhere in June because I want him to be able to play baseball. And so in June, I'm just going to be in Minnesota. And my hope is to just fish a, uh, ton. Spend a ton of time fishing. It's one of my favorite things to do. It's one of my key Sabbath activities. So I'm going to spend a lot of time outdoors, fishing in June, doing baseball with my son, and really not doing much else. In July, I'll be a priest in residence at an Episcopal church in Door County, Wisconsin, which is just a naturally beautiful place in the summer. And so I did that last year, and the responsibilities are pretty minimal. You preach on some days, and then that's about it. And they, um, got a house for people to stay in. So I'll do that in July. And then in August, um, my family and I are going to spend a little time in Mexico City, which is something we've always wanted to do. So, um, it feels both there's a. There's a lot of outdoor time, a lot of rest time, uh, a little vacation time, little travel. So I'm looking forward to it. Seems. Seems really good.
>> Mother Karen: Sounds great.
>> Craig Loya: Yeah.
>> Mother Karen: Okay, well, we're almost out of time, so before you go, we have the surprise rapid fire questions that you did not get in advance. Uh, don't worry, it's nothing controversial. We don't think all of our guests have responded to the same questions. And so we are just going to ask you a question and we just want your knee jerk response.
>> Craig Loya: Got it. Okay, first question.
>> Mother Karen: High church or low church?
>> Craig Loya: High church.
>> Clare: Favorite part of the liturgy.
>> Craig Loya: The blessing, Scripture.
>> Mother Karen: Tradition or reason?
>> Craig Loya: Scripture.
>> Clare: Best color you vibe with most Purple.
>> Mother Karen: Would you rather Easter vigil or Christmas Eve?
>> Craig Loya: Easter vigilance?
>> Clare: Church potluck.
>> Craig Loya: Must have deviled eggs. No question. Deviled eggs.
>> Mother Karen: All right, there you have it.
>> Craig Loya: I was mildly terrified. Those were. Those were real gentle questions. I was. I was kind of terrified that those were. Those were fun ones. Well done.
>> Clare: We try and be nice.
>> Mother Karen: Yeah.
>> Clare: Midwest.
>> Mother Karen: There you go. Yeah, we don't want to create any title four situations or anything.
>> Craig Loya: Yeah. Yeah.
>> Mother Karen: Well, all right. Well, thank you so much for being on the podcast today. I think we have really enjoyed it and I can't wait for people to hear this episode.
>> Craig Loya: So it's been great to be with you and I want to say thank you to the two of you for doing this podcast. I think the work that you're engaged in is really important. It really matters and this is a great gift to the church. So thanks for doing it.
>> Clare: Thank you for sharing that.
>> Mother Karen: All right. Go in peace to love and serve the Lord.
>> Craig Loya: Thanks be to God.
>> Clare: Hey, friends, thanks for listening. Please like and subscribe and leave a review wherever you listen to podcasts. To learn more about all things episcopal on the DAS of West Missouri's communication pages, please visit dio westmo.org podcasts backslash and in the Diocese of Kansas, Please visit edok formation.WordPress.com All Things Episcopalpodcast All Things Episcopal Podcast is a production of the Diocese of West Missouri and the Diocese of Kansas in association with Resonant Media.