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The Honest Money Show is your guide to understanding what money really is, and where Bitcoin fits in. Hosted by Anja Dragovic, Australia's female-led, Bitcoin-only podcast, it cuts through the noise to explore how money shapes our lives, why the current system leaves so many people behind, and what a clearer, fairer future could look like.
Expect honest, accessible conversations with some of the most interesting thinkers in the space, the kind that take you from "I don't really get this" to genuinely curious. No hype, no pressure, just money, made clear.
Whether you're brand new to these questions or already deep in them, you're welcome here.
Everyone I know has two digital, two Apple IDs.
One holds their real life,
and the other is the account they show
the police or the soldiers
when they search their phone.
You need local leadership and local management
to run a physical Bitcoin community.
We can't manufacture trust
or legitimacy as an outsider.
The more people we could help,
the more people could learn about basic savings,
the sooner we could help fix the world.
Joining me today is Jimmy Kostro. Jimmy
has founded Asia's largest Bitcoin
physical hub in Chiang Mai, and we're here
to talk about that today. Welcome to the
show, Jimmy. Welcome. Thank you very much
for having me. I would love to learn more
about how this all came about. Yeah, so it
was wild. We started by nothing Bitcoin
first. That was a big part of this is
never leading with Bitcoin. So as
Bitcoiners, we were helping disadvantaged
communities around the region. We started
by putting English teachers in orphanages,
or they're called children's homes here.
And we had about four teachers
distributed, and they were part-time
helping these children. We then began
working with border communities closer to
Myanmar, because in northern Thailand,
we're only a few hundred kilometers from
the border. We went up there, and what was
really fascinating was we found this hill
tribe of 100 children, and they're like
these well-behaved, like well-mannered
kids in the middle of the mountain, like
five hours from the major city, on top of
the mountain, in the middle of the jungle.
And we're like, okay, this is like, we got
to help these people here. So we ended up
helping build bathrooms, dormitories,
providing scholarships, giving our time,
giving our energy and effort, and funding
to build things like a hundred-person
kitchen that the children no longer had to
be cooking in the dirt, like outside. It's
not very sanitary. It's not that clean,
and the weather gets pretty rough, so
they're eating outside and cooking
outside. So we were able to do all these
things. That's kind of like how it all
started. And then we recognized, like the
children were kind of small, like a little
unusually small. And it was kind of
obvious when you think about it. You're
like, okay, well, they don't have the
nutrition that we have access to. So I
think, okay, man, how can we help them
store vegetables and protein all the way
up here? So, okay, why don't we help,
instead of building bathrooms and
dormitories and things, why don't we help
build an off-grid 10-kilowatt solar system
on top of this building where they were?
And now the idea is we could have a
freezer, which we brought up there
eventually, and they could freeze the
proteins and vegetables and fruits. So
this is like brilliant. So instead of
having to go up there all the time, you
could, every two weeks or so, they would
have this freezer. So we did this, and it
worked out wonderful. But then something
unexpected happened. We learned that they
weren't using, like, half of the energy it
was generating. So as a Bitcoiner, I think
you can see where this is leaning, where
we're leaning here, right? So we
obviously come back down. We tell our
friends about it. And they said, how much
extra energy? So Piccolo, Bob Space, our
friends down in Bangkok said, hey, here's
some extra miners. Next time you go up
there, go with a couple guys and connect
it. Okay. To pull this and, like, put it
all together, these were before the last
halving. The miners were the S9 miners. I
kind of got one over there. So it wasn't
going to generate much money at all. Like,
it was like, at the time, I think it was
40,000 sats per month or something, or
maybe five or $10 per month. If it runs
full time, it rains up there. There's
children. It's dirty. Like, if it ran full
time, right? We got, when we put a message
on, at the time it was Twitter turning
into X, we had mentioned that we had just
connected and took a photo and videos. We
connected this hill tribe on top of the
mountain, five hours away in the middle of
the jungle to the Bitcoin network. Well,
we got more donations to the address of
the miner in one day than the miners would
make in a full year if they were
operational. So that's how that started a
big wave into like, oh, wow, there's some
Bitcoiners in the north. And that's kind
of how it kicked off. I love that. And
like, has that attracted other Bitcoiners
to travel there? Like, I assume people
just naturally hear about it and then want
to visit. So this happened. Exactly.
Exactly. So we had a lot of questions like
that after that was heard. So we ended up
getting like scrappy mics like that. Like
we just got mics to answer because we were
answering from traditional, like the wire
and like we just needed to answer more
questions and make it a little more
professional. At the time, there's like a
hub in Bangkok called Bob Space. And
there's like a meetup in the north, but
it's like kind of a little crypto Bitcoin.
It's not Bitcoin focused. There wasn't a
Bitcoin focused place up here. We're on
the border of Myanmar. We're also close to
Laos and China. So like those places can't
they're not allowed to come together like
this. So we recognize there's a need for
it. But like to answer your question about
did people come? People came in droves.
Like they wanted to see what's going on,
who we were and why we're doing this. So
and then like. As you do this
consistently, more people would come and
like then Joe Nakamoto comes and then he
does a video about it and then it starts
to have this compounding effect, you know.
So, yeah, we have a ton of people come.
But like at the time, we had this old
abandoned building that we're in right
now. And her father, my co-founder, her
father had this old abandoned building.
Trees were growing in here. Ceilings were
small. So we we've gutted the whole thing
and we weren't even sure what the future
was going to be. We're like, OK, we should
just like do our nonprofit foundation work
on the first floor as Bitcoiners. And then
we're like, wait a minute. This is kind of
slow. The English teacher thing like
English, like we focus on basic savings,
basic finance, financial literacy. We're
on the border. Let's let's start doing
workshops, education on Bitcoin. And so
the second floor and third floor, we're
going to be like maybe a school, maybe
accommodation. But as people started
coming, we're like, we need more space. So
then the second floor became another huge
event space. And then the third floor, I
was like, oh, maybe we'll have like a
penthouse off like a cool condo master
bedroom. Nope. We ran out of space on the
second floor. And now our events were 100
people big. So we needed the third floor
for the space. And then the city wouldn't
let us grow anymore. So we had to have
this like fourth floor studio. But it's
like not allowed. The city limits don't
allow you go higher. So we have four
floors. And now we have seven people that
work here full time. We have an
international manager, Neo over there. Eve
downstairs. She's our domestic national
manager. FI, our co-founder, CEO and
director. We have an intern here today,
Hang. He's on the end of his internship.
We have two media men, our media team
upstairs, a third person. And we have,
it's coming next week. And we have an
events coordinator named Kate. So we do a
ton from just that. And now that has
evolved into more things too. We could
talk. Yeah, I love that. But tell me about
your meetups. I want to know how the local
adoption is happening there. Like what did
the locals think of Bitcoin? Yeah. So in
the North, they were always just watching
stuff online because there was no physical
gathering for the locals. And there's kind
of this cultural thing called Grang Jai
where they don't like to interrupt. They
don't want to be rude. They want to be
soft and kind. So there was no real place.
So just kind of like unwinding a little
bit. Chiang Mai is like a big expat mecca,
sort of like a Bali, something like that.
And so you have like your international
side and you have your Thai side. And it
doesn't, there's not a whole lot of
international that speak Thai and not a
whole lot of local that speak
international. So you have to have a
little bit separate. So for the local
side, they would have their very
structured, they like lessons. They like
to sit down and have it organized.
International like to like kind of have
more of a hangout social thing. So we had
to mix and match this. Um, when we would
have our events, we would have like
Burmese on Thursday, international Friday,
and then Thai Saturday. Because if you
have a hundred, a hundred and fifty and
the building only fits a hundred, you have
to separate them, which kind of works out
because if you don't speak fluent in one
language, you don't, you don't feel super
comfortable mixing. So, um, that's been
that experience. We have. We have
regularly about three to five people visit
here every day. It's crazy. Like that's a
lot like to handle. That's actually Neo's
job. Half of his job is to just take the
incoming and you'd never know who's going
to come through the door. And yesterday he
was helped. It's walk-ins. It's like super
crazy. So like he'll, he helped somebody
put, help them get to, to Bitcoin off of
an exchange. Older gentlemen on, you know,
to use Trezor as a hardware device.
Totally crazy. But yeah, so like our, our
meetups will be like, I don't know, maybe
monthly for the Thai local, but we'll
have, we, we do like larger things. Like,
like meetups are like kind of okay, but
we'll have seminars with the university or
the government and major events. So we can
make the most use of our time, you know,
like a meetup, it might be like once a
month, but like, what are you doing every day?
You know, like. So every day we're
working on Bitcoin education, working
around events. I know that, um, we do tons
of media, which is, which we should get
into. Um, yeah. So, so what it looks like
on the meetup side, it's like, it's not
like a meetup. Like you just go to once on
a Thursday. It's like, Hey, you want to
come learn, you come here. Or if your
community wants to put together an
emergency multi-sig hardware workshop in
August, then here it is. And then really
you can only reach 50 people that way
anyway. So that's when, that's when you
start just recording the stuff and then it
reaches, we're reaching millions of people
this way in Thai. So it's like an
evolution. Yeah, no, that's really
inspiring. I think having a physical hub
is so important and yeah, we tried to set
one up. Well, we did actually set one up
in Sydney and unfortunately there was a
freak flood that happened due to a
plumbing accident. And now it's just going
through, um, the insurance claims and all
of that. So we don't know what the future
of that will be, but, um, I'm really like,
I was surprised to hear that the local
government is involved and, and
universities as well. So like, I mean, you
guys seem a lot further down that advocacy
and, uh, adoption path in Australia is by
comparison. Cause over here it's crickets.
Yeah. Um, well it started, um, a couple of
years ago when we ran out of people to
educate, we thought like, how can we
attract more people and create awareness
and exposure to Bitcoin? So we said, why
don't we put on a marathon? Like what, how
do we, how do we do that? Right? So we got
in touch with the local race organizers
and said, Hey, we want to put on the
world's first Bitcoin half marathon. Well,
because it's 3000 people and there's road
closures and permits and all sorts of
stuff, the city has to approve. So they're
like, so they call us in and they're like,
okay. Uh, so what is Bitcoin? Pull up a
chair. And you asked. Uh, so, but what was
very cool about when we had this initial
introduction, a couple of things, we had
orange pilled a doctor. A couple of years
before that. So to put it in perspective
for your audience, we've been doing this
here for three years, but like, as it was
built four years ago, we were still
Bitcoiners talking about Bitcoin every day
and like nonstop. So we orange pilled a
doctor into Bitcoin. He became the local
deputy mayor at the time that we were
putting on the world's first Bitcoin half
marathon. So he, he are, he was already
aware of all this because in Southeast
Asia, Bitcoin and scam are very close
together. Like, whoa. So, so, and his
superior, um, was also, was also familiar
with Bitcoin. These are like two very
serendipitous, great things that helped us
get in with the, the local government.
They then opened the door to say, I think
it's good for your team to teach our staff
the basics so they could answer questions
to their superiors and have a better
understanding of what this Bitcoin thing
is. So we started classes with them. Um,
they opened the door to like any
department that was available that we just
got an open canvas. So we started calling
them like Bitcoin safety classes, like
kind of terms that maybe would be easier
for them to embrace. Um, same thing with
university. We would, we would synthesize
it to like basic savings, financial
inclusion, modern finance, um, economic
empowerment, just really simple things. So
this was, um, easier for, for them to
relate and them to share with their
colleagues and their superiors to get any
sort of approvals that, you know, that
might otherwise be more difficult to get.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And tell me about the
media. What kind of media are you guys
doing? This is totally crazy. So, um, so
when we started having these time meetups
and these big quarterly events, we'd have
these quarterly bit devs, which we have a
hundred people here. Let me know there's a
hundred Bitcoiners. They come. That's
crazy. Um, one time about 17 months ago,
18 months ago, the Thai Bitcoiners were
together and they saw, we had like a mic
like this. And then like, you know, a
tripod over there and like a camera, a
basic camera and some like basic pieces.
And they said, Hey, one of the guys said,
I have like a part-time podcast that I
like, uh, uh, he does on Spotify. It's not
like a video. It's like audio. So he was
familiar with it. And he's like, wait a
minute. Why don't we put together a
podcast? And my co-founder would be the
host. So they did. And we went like, we
said, okay, let's do this because it makes
perfect sense to help reach more people.
Um, over a period of the first year. So
this is like totally crazy. Um, by
starting the podcast, then in Thai, there
wasn't many of them. So there wasn't,
there was only like one in Bangkok. There
was nothing really in the North. Um, so
the Thai people, this was like product
market fit. They're very curious about the
topic. And we didn't just do one media.
Like every time there was a Bitcoin or
that was coming to town in Thai, they
would just have like a weekly podcast. So
I figure 52 guests, but then they wanted
to do more. They wanted to do weekly
Bitcoin news. For me, I was like the news
really like guys pretty busy, but the news
became a staple and it's every Wednesday
and it's still going even last night. And
then they do bit devs and then they do,
um, BLC library, which is book reviews.
Right. And then we have bit health, which
is, we have another, another doctor, not
the, not the government, uh, mayor, a
different doctor, a doctor led physician
led bit health, the intersection of
Bitcoin and health. So this place has
became a by, another by-product, just like
the, just like giving and helping, uh,
disadvantaged communities as a
humanitarian thing turned that into this
big signal. The same thing happened with
having a physical hub brought people
together, say, listen, more people that
can't come here, whether it's
geographically challenging, it's far, it's
expensive. We have to let people know
about this information because you guys
have such wonderful guests come through.
So they start recording and now we have
like five or six media verticals. Right
now we're doing one called our local
region, CNX builders. We have queen B,
which is a female, uh, female, uh,
builders, entrepreneurs, uh, initiative
going on right now. And now, um, we have
five studios. So I almost want to take you
around. Uh, this is one of them. I'm going
to be visiting. I'm telling you that right
now, probably by the end of the year, like
I really want to visit. Come, come, come,
come, come, come. We have five places for
you to come in. Like, obviously our
neighbors accept Bitcoin, which is super
cool. Like, cause cause like can't escape
this thing. So, um, we have, we have five
studios, um, and a health company said,
listen, I've seen your media now here.
These numbers, these numbers are crazy.
Um, in just one year, our, our YouTube
grew to 10,000 subscribers in a language
only spoken by less than 1% of the
population. There's 20% of the world
speaks English. We just hit, we're just
hit a million views this month, um, which,
and we've only been going for a little
over a year for the YouTube in Thailand.
And the Thai people really embrace
Facebook. Like the Filipinos and the Thai
are the power users of Facebook. If you
think about it, uh, from a country lens.
So like if you're, if your local business
is not on Facebook, you don't exist. It's
crazy. And I know Bitcoiners are like, oh,
like telegram signal, everything,
everything else, but Noster. But what
happened is we've been to platform three
times because the word Bitcoin. In the
name. So on the third time we didn't give
up, we, we called it BLC for Bitcoin
learning center, uh, BLC Chiang Mai. I
think it is. Yeah. And we have just hit 10
million views in 15 months, like 15
months, two days ago on, on our Bitcoin
content. 10 million. This is crazy. In
parallel, a year ago, we started another
brand called Run for Freedom because we
had the marathon, which we're doing again
in November. And we have a, an ultra
marathon next month in September called
the BTC 100 or BTC 50. So all of this is
bringing awareness and exposure to Bitcoin
in like many ways. The Run for Freedom
brand just surpassed 9 million views. And
our TikTok has 6 million views. So if you
put all these things together, we have 27
million views in tie on basic, basic
Bitcoin stuff. Not, you know, of course
there's bit devs and there's
mathematicians and experts and all of
that. But together, if you look at it
holistically, our physical hub, the media
has became a byproduct of that. Now, to
take it one step further, Anja, outsiders
have now asked us, can you do the media
for us? Can you be our media department?
We're like, I guess, sure. And then, so
it's opened up an opportunity for us to,
and so we just started, I think we're on
our fourth week with one, our first
customer.
And in doing their media. So they'll come
once a week, they'll record for an hour.
Our media team will create like this 15
-minute trailer, break it into like seven
or eight clips per week. And then that
cycle repeats every week. So we have them
go through like ClickUp and Slack and it's
kind of cool. So the media, so having
clients, paying clients has became a
byproduct of just consistent media being
done here over time. I love it. I find
these stories so inspiring and I can't
wait to share this episode with everyone
in Australia. Like, because I'm pretty
much friends with everyone from a major
city, like all the organizers. And yeah,
like we all really care about adoption and
everyone's doing their own little thing,
whether it's they're really passionate
about going around and orange-pilling
merchants or someone runs a book club or
someone runs bit devs. You know, like it's
just, it's really inspiring. At what stage
did you feel that things really started to
kind of take off? As soon as we started
having people come to us, the number one
question that everyone would ask, like,
maybe not like hardcore Bitcoiners, but
like, they're trying to figure out what do
you get out of this? Why do you do it?
That was the number one question because
they couldn't figure it out. They're like,
well, what are you selling? Like, you
know, what is the, what are you selling?
Catch. What is it? And they can't wrap
their head around it. And it's kind of
cool. And I get it. I understand. So the
time when I realized that what, what was
really transpiring was we always led with
helping and giving just help and give as
much as possible and remove any
transactional relationship. So like, even
though all of the exchanges work with us
and they give us the referral link, it's
like a policy here. Don't give anyone,
like, don't do that. Like, you don't want
to take, okay, it's so hard to build a
community. Every person matters so much
that you can't treat anyone just like
ordinary. You have to really, really like
cultivate that relationship. And as soon
as you like try to do some transaction, we
even removed, there's a fee in the Bitcoin
ATM downstairs. There's like an API into
the exchange and there's like a lightning
wallet fee between our, the guy that hosts
our lightning, lightning wallet. Because
for legal purposes, we just want to
insulate ourself. We pay that like 10 cent
thing because we don't want in any
capacity, anybody to think that there's,
that there's a transactional. We want it
to be just, you're here to learn and, and
be part of a community. And, and the
community doesn't just mean like
education. It means like hospitality.
You want people to stay. Like I, I've never
been here when this building closes after
an event, because when you get a bunch of
people together and you help, you know,
get food and maybe some beers or whatever,
they just, we just tell them, make sure to
turn off the air condition and close the
door. So like when I, I realized early on
that there was, this was catching on
because our approach to it was just help
people just help people and be kind and be
generous and be thoughtful. And then
people want to play with you. So that's,
and that's when I realized, okay, that's
kind of our identity. Let's go and do that
as long as possible, as far as possible
without having to take on any sort of like
outside money. Now to answer like, how do
you fund it? That's another crazy question
that a lot of people ask. So a couple of
things. Well, one, we couldn't do this
without Bitcoin. Not that we were
necessarily selling our Bitcoin to do this
over the years. It's just that Bitcoin has
freed our minds to know our future is safe
in five and 10 years, as long as we keep
our Bitcoin safe. So we don't have like
that suffocating anxiety to have to like
take, take, take and store, store, store
and invest, invest, invest and figure out
the whole. We just, we don't have that
worry because we believe so much in what
you do and what everyone's doing here. We
just, that's our world. So we couldn't do
it without Bitcoin. But in Thailand versus
Australia and Sydney, these are massive
different costs. So I also have a business
in America that was luckily able to help
over the, especially the early years, not
so much now to help fund it. And then if
you look at like a salary comparison, a
high quality worker above the average
standard costs in Thailand and Chiang Mai,
if you pay like a thousand dollars, you're
getting a high quality English speaking
honors graduate university level, you
know, a thousand dollars a month. So this
would be, and if you, maybe Sydney might
be 4,000 or more. So if you have six or
seven people, then it's 70,000, you could
do that for like under a hundred thousand
dollars and really move the needle. Now
that's just, that's just salary. That's
just like employment costs, our programs
and running the building and everything
else is a little more than double that. So
if it, maybe if it's $200,000 or more,
depending on the year and the market
conditions, then that, that will be what
it costs to run the place too. So we fund
it through our, our business operations
and now our BLC media arm is going to help
fund it. And then when we built this last
year, HRF was in the region, they were in
Bali and like around and they had heard
because we support a Burmese community.
And we have a win, Coco from HRF come and
present here every, since the last three
years, he was talking about us. And then
Bob space there, they're also a grantee of
HRF. And he's like, has like an office
here. This is like a second home in the
North. And we call this Bob corner cause
he's so many miners over there. I'm going
to show you, I don't know if we're allowed
to in the podcast, but we're just going to
show you. So there's like, um, and you can
actually see a little more of the office
from this view here. But, uh, yeah, so
cool. Orange flower, Bitcoin sign. There's
Neo. There's hang over there. Uh, there's
some work. So, um, yeah, so he, he, he had
encouraged them to like, come check us
out. Well, we didn't know they were
bringing Jeff Booth, Miles from block. Obi
from Fetty, uh, Leopoldo Lopez from
Venezuela. Gladstein. I mean, like what?
This is crazy. And then I'm sure you could
understand the rest. Um, because when,
when, if those people come through and
then they're telling their stories on what
Bitcoin did and then that snowballs into
even more people coming.
So have you heard of other people learning
about the model that you're running there
and going and doing, setting up something
similar in their country? Has that
happened? Yeah. So we know what everyone's
doing because everybody comes here and
tells us. So like they'll go travel Asia
and they'll go to every spot they can
because they're Bitcoiners and they want
to go around and they'll tell us their
experience everywhere. And we are in very
good relationships with all of the, the
physical communities worldwide. Bitcoin
beach, uh, Alice in El Salvador, Lugano
plan B network or proof of work building.
I mean, um, the guys in India, Bichala and
obviously in Bali. I mean, yeah,
everybody, we know everywhere. We know
everything we know the cult and they come
so regularly. Um, we get to find out how
everything, everything's going because
people just tell us like, Oh, they thought
it would be like that, like this. I will
say we kind of set a pretty high bar here.
So I kind of like, it's kind of better to
come here last. Um, but, um, yeah,
there's, there's, there's quite a few
things with that. Like, okay. You can't do
this in another nation if you're not from
that nation. So like, let me unpack that.
You need local leadership and local
management to run a physical Bitcoin
community. Now I'm not, I'm American
living in Thailand. If me and you, and,
uh, I don't know. I saw a British hodl on
your podcast. I was watching it like a
little bit the other day. If us three came
together and we had a million dollars, we
couldn't just do this in Thailand or, or
Cambodia or anywhere you need, you need,
um, because there's so much career risk
with someone interact, the international
person cannot, uh, cannot establish enough
credibility without putting a person at
risk. And there's local language, local
permits, building property, uh, cultural
nuance. Um, we, we can't manufacture, uh,
trust or legitimacy as an outsider. It is
already hard to build a business and then
do a Bitcoin business and then it'd be a
nonprofit. Like it's all just very, very,
very difficult. So you definitely need
like, that's why when I heard of our
friend, Sean building the one in Malaysia
and Kuala Lumpur, uh, I was talking to win
from HRF cause I knew he was going to go
talk to him. Hey, make sure like number
one priority here is like, he knows that
he, we got to get a Malaysian dude or
girl, you know, a person as your manager
because life is already hard enough and
you're going to come up against a meal and
immense challenges. So, so this is
something, a takeaway of like, if you're
going to do this, um, you gotta, you have
to like, you have to have no overhead. I
mean, none, like you can't be renting a
place. You can't, you have to like really
go into it sharp. You have to know that
you're never going to, if the leader, like
the, the one that's going to drive it,
like just accept that you're not going to
make money. Like, like, because if you, if
you get an opportunity to make money, you
want to give that to your editor, you want
to give that to someone that could take
this content and make it cool. You, you
want to be able to do that so you could
impact and reach more people. So there's
like a lot of learning lessons doing this,
um, from my experience. And yeah, so we
try to advise everybody and anyone that
asks us open playbook, you know, we're
happy to help everybody because the more
people we could help, the more people
could learn about basic savings, the
sooner we could help fix, fix the world. I
love it. And I love the running idea. I
think that's such a clever way to, to get
attention, you know, in, in just, we have
an event. So I live in Byron for context
and we have this annual event, um, that I
don't participate in, but it's fun.
Nonetheless, it gets a lot of attention.
It's just people riding bicycles through
town naked and it's on every year and the
locals come out and just watch these
people. It's like a thing. And so I
imagine, you know, if there was a group of
Bitcoiners, um, running in orange, running
Bitcoin, like that would just be such a
cool way to get, um, attention without,
you know, forcing it down anyone's neck.
It was just like, oh, okay. I wonder what
this group is about. Um, you know, that,
that sea of orange of 3000 people running
through, like the aerial photos of that
are incredible and you get to capture such
great media from that. And then if you do
it right, which is not my strong suit, but
events you can, um, these events cost
like, um, minimum $100,000 us to do, but
you know, you can get a title sponsor and
gold and silver. And if that's your thing,
you, this is a really good opportunity for
a hub, uh, to earn enough money to be
sustainable. That was another reason we
went into it. Unfortunately, we learned
like, we're not that that's not our like
DNA. So that was an expensive learning
lesson. Um, and we, we have one major one.
We're working with Binance, which is cool.
We work with Tether last year, which was
cool. And then Tether was going to work
with us again on this one, but they
decided very last minute, like two last
minute, they weren't going to. So now, you
know, it's cool. Cause, um, you can work
with hospitals and car dealerships. Like
it doesn't have to be finance. Um, you
kind of just don't want finance and you
want, you want like Bitcoin as the focus,
creating awareness, exposure, like the
question, what is Bitcoin? And then you
have all of your community. So we have 500
members. So you can't have a meetup on
Thursday. You know, you have to like have
this organized, catered, planned events,
almost tickets. That's why we work with
Atlantis a lot. Also, we work with
everybody. So like there's about 250
international and 250 Thai. Uh, and then,
you know, so if we have a big, our
quarterly meetups will be international
and then we'll, we'll just do Thai every
day. Um, so like when we have our next,
this is so cool. You should come here in
November if you can. Okay. I'm writing
these down. Like I, November 22nd. 22nd.
Okay. All right. Cause next month might be
too close. And I think I'm seeing you next
week and the week after in Korea and Hong
Kong. Right. I'm looking forward to that
so much. Sweet. So, um, cause we have a
big event in September, but that's too
close. In November, we're doing the half
marathon again. When we have an event like
this, there's so many Bitcoiners that come
to our event that our building only fits
120 people that we rent the local movie
theater just to fit all of the Bitcoiners
that are coming to the event. So that,
then we put on like Bitcoin is hope and
we'll do these 10 or 12 minute Ted talks
of, you know, we're doing Bitcoin is
freedom coming up September 25th. And then
November 20, 22 is the race. What day is
the, is the actual like Friday 21st. So I
think like the 21st is, um, the actual day
that we would have the movie theater. And
then if you're in town, we'd have you,
like, we'd ask you if you'd be interested
in doing, you know, 10 minutes on, Hey,
what's your experience from the honest
money show and tell people about that. And
so it's really fun. We record it and it's
like, you could have popcorn and watch
your friends talk about Bitcoin. Um, yeah,
man, it's super cool what we do here.
It really is. It really is. Um, look, I find
Thai people really, really beautiful and I
have some Thai friends and they just
really are special. And I'm curious to
know what, is there anything about Bitcoin
that appeals to them and I guess their
culture and way of living that maybe
doesn't so much to Westerners? Yeah. You
know, um, there's two, there's a few sides
to this. So gold is a big thing in
Southeast Asia. Like, so they understand
that property very well. So understanding
digital gold is not as far as a leap for
many people. That's one thing. And then
unfortunately, uh, like the lottery is a
big thing in the Thai, Thai, Thai places
too. See, and people start learning about
that and gambling is big like here and in
Vietnam. It's fucking huge. So, you know,
I think a lot of people have experienced
this with their family, whether that's
gambling or gold or the lottery. So, and,
um, you know, I think, yes, it has its
negative effects, but I also think that
people actually question what it is that
they're doing. Um, and it's, it's very
common, uh, to, to buy gold and store
gold. So, yeah. And like when you said the
Thai people are so kind, like, listen,
this is the best place in the world to
live. So when I started, I left America in
2017, uh, after getting involved in
Bitcoin, I'm like, okay, if I could have
this very talented woman that runs my
operations, which she's been running for
like 13 years now out of South Florida, I
could leave. So why am I going to stay in
America when I could go travel? So I
checked out 40 countries and I'm like,
okay, cool, cool, cool. And when I got to
here for me as a Bitcoiner, like the
safety is like number one, like I just
feel totally safe. I like, if I go to the
restaurant or the cafe, if I take the
motorbike downstairs, we have a company
little like scooter. I don't take the key
out of it. Like if I go to the restroom, I
don't like put my phone or my, in my
pocket pocketbook or my close my laptop.
Like I just leave it there because why
would my brain even think, you know, when
I travel now, I have to like unwind my
brain a little bit, like, wait, be a
little more thoughtful here because you're
not in Thailand. Um, it's crazy. It's just
so, so the people are so kind, they're
thoughtful, they're considerate. The food
is remarkable. You know, if you can make a
Western living and live here, that's a
superpower. If you, you know, so you have
the weather, which is, you know, it's a
little rainy season, but the quality of
life, if you can figure out that geo
arbitrage or earn in the West, earn
Western income, live in the East, be safe.
If you could help a tremendous amount of
people, like we're reaching millions of
people and this is early days for us, you
know, like it's just so crazy. So yeah,
the Thai people understand Bitcoin a
little bit better. Um, I mean, there's
only 70 million. We've reached 25 million
views. I know there's multiple people per
view. Our other friends, there's five
other major Bitcoin communities. We're
helping each other. What we do is when we
have like go to university or like
something, we'll, we'll reach out to the,
based on the topic, the strongest
Bitcoiners that are Thai in their region
and say, we'll fly you up because it only
costs 30 or 40 us dollars to fly up in,
in, inside the country. We'll take you to
the university. So we'll cover your
airfare. We'll cover like your hotel for
the night. So maybe it's like a hundred
bucks. That is the best use of our
Bitcoin. You get the strongest, brightest,
most intelligent people in front of
academia, in front of local government and
let them do their thing. Like what? This
is what you're supposed to do. So we, we
bring these camps together. And now, and
now all of the regions like, you know, in
Laos, Cambodia, Malaysia, Indonesia,
Vietnam, they all come here because we do
that. Cause we have the bandwidth and the
heart and the desire to, to go far and
wide with doubling down on our skills that
we're serendipitously learning what they
are. Like we're this, these mics and these
media people are all byproducts of
building a physical place for people to
come and then tell us who we are. Yeah.
One of the most, I guess, inspiring parts
of being a Bitcoiner is watching someone
go from a non-Bitcoiner to becoming a
Bitcoiner and then just wanting to
dedicate their life to it. Um, and then
they go away and build things and educate
others. Like, do you have many of those
stories in Thailand? You know, there's no
breakthrough moment. It's just a
combination of consistent applied effort,
hundreds and thousands of consistent
dependable. So when you have like a
community meetup, if there's a leak in the
building, like you got to let everybody
know, like we're going to move across the
street for this one. Um, to see someone
switch on is very rare, you know, very
rare. Plus I, I, I'm always in
translation, so I don't speak fluent Thai,
but I understand. But like, so if 95% of
what we do is in Thai, it's hard for me to
see someone capture it. And now, okay. If
we reaching 12 million people, I don't
like to literally include TikTok because
it's like the way that they mentioned the
views is like, just like scrolling or
something. So if we, if we have a hundred
people come here a month, that's 1200
people a year. But if you go 10,000 times
that that's 12 million, that's the, what
we reach with our media. So I don't, we
don't see the aha moments. It's in fact,
what we do, our total sole purpose here,
other than to be kind and help more people
than we did yesterday is just to be a
touch point in someone's journey. Yeah. So
what does the future of like, what, where
do you see it going five years, 10 years
from now? That's such a cool question. Um,
well, I want that building. There's a
little like, there, where are you? You're
looking across the street. I am. Uh,
there's, it's a house. We'll see. Like we
want to expand our event space. Um, we
have so many talented people come here
that I want to help them find work. I want
to be able to like be a bridge and help
create like a, be a global talent partner,
um, for Bitcoin companies, any companies,
because such bright, intelligent people
come here and man, what an impact that
could be. If we could help people, uh, you
know, especially the Burmese, we started a
project called one Myanmar, where we tell
the stories of their life and what they're
going through. And if you watch my
presentation in Hong Kong, which is
pretty, it's pretty intense. Um, you know
how they have to have that. She, she was
here a few weeks ago and she looked at me
and she said, everyone I know has two
digital, two Apple IDs. Like one holds
their real life. And the other is the
account they show the police or the
soldiers when they search their phone. So
like, man, to think about like what I
could be doing in five years or 10 years,
I got to help these people because I have
the energy still. I have the, the, the
desire. I just want to keep learning how
to help more people. And this is all
because Bitcoin's giving me the freedom to
be able to think like that and not be
selfish about, about myself and my future.
So yeah, I think like the community will
be more in control. Um, you know, uh, I'll
be, we'll be able to step back a little
bit more. Our, our teams are growing.
They're developing personally and
professionally where they can manage the
business. They do. We go away for months
at a time. I go to speak at Prague and
America and all over and sometimes we go
away for a while. Um, went down to New
Zealand last year, which was really cool.
Not, I know you're in Australia, but, um,
yeah. So I think like, it would be cool to
see this continue, um, hire, you know,
help more people find jobs, help, help
Burmese people learn more about this, get
information into Burma, work with bigger
organizations, create a sustainable model
that we could hand to every other country
and say, you're a Bitcoin community. This
is how we do it. You should try it too.
Um, yeah. And then I think our, our, our
story is like, we didn't know what was
next. You know, we were helping people. We
were giving our time and we're building
bathrooms. And I'm looking at like, it's
crazy things like water wells and wifi and
kitchens and like, and then, then the
mining came and then the information and
the influence came and then the media came
and now this. So, you know, uh, we're
going to continue to like be open-minded.
You know, I didn't think that the, the,
the book review was a good idea. This gets
55,000 views on a book review. I'm wrong.
You shouldn't have to be open to letting
the community discover what the community
wants. And I think that's always going to
be an evolving thing. Yeah. What would you
say was the most surprising thing? Like,
you know, if you could go back, is there
one moment in your journey that you
thought was like, not at all what you'd
expect? Yeah. All of this. I mean,
everything, all of this, like I, I
wouldn't, I wouldn't have been able to
think this way. I mean, like I just, um,
everyone gets along really well. Everyone
is very, I didn't expect. I, okay. Let's
in America. I haven't spoken to the people
that work in my company in six years. I
don't know what their voice sounds like. I
created an environment. So it's all done
over Slack and digital. I always believed
that if something was important enough, we
can't really decide it right now. We have
to like digest it. If we're going to
digest it, someone needs to write it down.
And since we don't have like a scribe
running around with us all day long, you
have to like put it somewhere that you
could review it and read it because that
makes sense. So 13 years ago, um, or
whenever Slack came out, maybe like 12
years ago, we started using Slack to
communicate every single thing. Okay. Now
fast forward to three or four years ago, I
had to go from living like totally
digitally where there's, there should
never be a reason to talk to anybody. It's
like, I can't review it to the exact 180
opposite degrees to a physical community
where I'm with the physical team every day
working like that. You know, um, I was
surprised, um, how different that was for
me for to do like to be a leader that way
and show up that way. You know, um, that
was a big shocking thing that was for,
for, for, for me that I didn't expect, but
a lot of it's, like I said, a lot of it's,
um, and serendipity. Um, I'm, I'm, I'm
just so grateful to be healthy and, and
have the ability to do this and meet
people like yourself and, and contribute
to the global Bitcoin community. I love
that. Um, well, I'll drop all your notes,
um, like all the, everything I need to in
the show notes. Um, so people can know
where to find you, but do you have
anything like any final words you want to
share with my audience? Come, come see,
come see, come see if all of this is
checks out. And, and then, and then when
you leave, let people know what you
thought and, uh, let us know how we could
improve. Um, we're always looking to
improve and we're here to help. We help
thousands and thousands of people
physically and, and millions of people
digitally. And if there's anything that we
could do to help your audience, we're here
to help. Thank you so much, Jimmy. Thank
to help. Thank you so much, Jimmy.
Thank you.