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GodWorx helps equip all Christians to influence their workplace and integrate their faith, by making disciples and unleashing the kingdom of God wherever they are.
Hi, everyone. My name is Carrie Whitcher, and you too can be a marketplace multiplier because marketplace multipliers equip all Christians to influence their workplace and integrate their faith by making disciples and unleashing the kingdom of God wherever they are. Welcome to another episode of the Marketplace Multipliers podcast. I'm Jeff Clark, and I serve as the associate head basketball coach at Indiana Wesley University. Today, we're gonna be joined by pastor Amanda Oicle from Public Church Boston, and we're gonna hear a a story that is a little bit different.
It starts out inspiring with her feeling called to pastor a church in Boston and do it through the marketplace, but one where she's faced extreme resistance and then ultimately rejection for the thing that God had put in her heart. We're just super grateful for how transparent and authentic she was in sharing her story. And I know for many people, they're gonna be encouraged and inspired by her faithfulness, but also just the way in which she continues to have hope and faith in Jesus Christ as she pursues the mission. We're joined now by pastor Amanda Oicle from Public Church in Boston. Pastor Amanda, could you just start by sharing the journey to planning a church in Boston?
Sure. So I became a Christian at 18. Shortly after that, God spoke to me about pastoral ministry, but I didn't believe He was talking to me. And then just through some life circumstances, delayed just saying yes to that leading. And then when I was 27, God poked me again and said, hey.
Why don't you become a pastor? Why don't you serve me full time? And I was just like, oh, okay. And then shortly after that, I had a dream of my husband and I looking for actually a storefront to start a church in. And so I was like, oh, I guess I'm called to church planting.
And I was actually a part of a church plan at the time, so that helped me just understand, the context of what it meant to be a church planter. Well, so I thought. And so I, yeah, started, doing coursework, working towards ordination in the Wesleyan church. And I started at home just online, and then God led my family and I to relocate to Kingswood University, which had many benefits. But one of those being that I got to meet pastor Brandon Peterson, who was just at the school doing a chapel service, but just felt like a connection to him and Jen, right away.
And then after I graduated, I was asked to go to Ontario to do kinda like a restart or yeah. I have a church there in Ontario. So I knew I needed a coach, that I would need some help. So I reached out to Brandon, and he said, well, hey. I'm doing this course with another pastor named Melinda Priest.
Would you like to join us in it? And I said, sure. So I did this course with them for 8 or 9 months, and then actually ended up resigning from my position in Ontario. And shortly after that, Melinda invited me to Boston, and that's how I got here. I I think anyone listening sees a pattern of you being willing to say yes.
And, obviously, if you're gonna plan a church in Boston, you're willing to go for it. So fast forward now to this stirring your heart for marketplace ministry and what you guys decided to do. Yeah. So shortly after coming here and just dreaming about what public church would be, I knew that we weren't necessarily gonna follow, like, a traditional church path. And so just working with Melinda and Brandon and just streaming about what our space could be, this concept of coffee kinda just kept coming up.
And even actually when I was still back at Kingswood, I wrote up a church planting plan to use a coffee shop as the space to gather in. But then as we were talking about it, I was like, I don't I don't think we're just supposed to meet in a coffee shop. I think we're actually supposed to start a coffee shop. And a lot of that, you know, is summarized in our mission, which is to create community connection, where all people are seen and known by the transforming love of Christ for the renewal of the city. And so it just so happened that, yeah, actually starting a coffee shop in the neighborhood of Jamaica Plain, would allow us to pilot our business, and meet a tangible need.
There was no good coffee shops where Awaken City Church is. So, we actually started with a coffee cart, and then that developed into a a permanent brick and mortar spot just right next door to Awaken City Church. And so, yeah, the our vision of creating proximity spaces or third spaces, whichever language you're more familiar with, to be close to those who feel far from Jesus actually came to be. And the vision was to also use the, businesses because we wanted we still do. But we especially then wanted to have multiple businesses eventually throughout the city and then, public church is a micro church network.
So the plan was that the churches would meet in the business spaces. And knowing your heart even for a little bit, your heart is for the people, and you're trying to provide a a good and create community, but it's not received maybe the way that we would hope this story would go. You have a vision. You go for it. You're trying to give things the way to the community.
Just walk us through what happened as you tried to bring this business to life. Yeah. Sure. So, I mean, we knew, especially just living in our context for as long as we have, and I'm from a very similar city back in Canada called Halifax. So very similar liberal leaning.
And so we knew that there would be some opposition to Christians owning a business, and in particular in the neighborhood that we started because yeah, we just there's evidence for it. And, but, you know, we felt like this was the way God was leading us, so we moved forward. But part of, getting the space ready was that we had to rezone or ask for a variance of use for the building. And so even before construction started, the neighbors knew what who we were and what we were gonna do, and, we were very nervous. We honestly expected that they would vote negatively, that they would not want us.
And surprisingly, they voted in the affirmative. Every you know, you you had a unanimous yes. And so we were able to, yeah, get the change of use, and so we move forward with construction. But shortly after that, there was a couple of articles that were written about us and tying us to just, like, some quotes that weren't even connected to the Wesleyan denomination. And that stirred a little bit of, like, questions in the neighborhood, and, we had a couple people, yeah, ask us, and we had great conversations.
And then, yeah, we did renovations for about a year. So for a year, the community knew we were coming, but we didn't hear much. And then, shortly after we opened, there was a a call via flyers posted around the neighborhood for the neighborhood to boycott us saying that the Wesleyan church, yeah, you know, are fascists, bigots, anti LGTBQ, anti trans, and just, you know, really started some narratives in the neighborhood that unless, yeah, unless people were like us and, you know, thought exactly how we did and believed how we did, that they would they wouldn't be welcome in the coffee shop. And so, you know, we refuted that. We'd he said that's not the case.
All people are welcome here. And then, the person who put up the flyers, we had already been open 2 months on our grand opening. She organized protest against us. So during our operating hours, there was probably throughout the day about 10 to 15 people outside. Yeah, just protesting the shop, and we're kinda yelling at customers as they came in and out.
And at one point, came in the shop and was yelling, at us. And, yeah, unfortunately, we had to ask them to leave, and that day was over. And as the word tells us, God's mercy is new every day. So we really questioned even at that point, you know, should we keep going? But we decided to keep going.
And for, you know, the next couple of months, It was kind of business as usual, but we noticed, like, our trends were not in line with other coffee shops. I have a couple of friends who have started and operate coffee shops and talk to them. And, I mean, we didn't expect to be, like, completely sustainable for a little while, but we saw a significant drop in our sales after that protest. And we'd have people come in and they would say like, oh, this space is so nice, and thank you for coming in the neighborhood. Your coffee's so good.
We're gonna go tell all our friends. We'll be here all the time. And then they would, like, leave and never come back. So the, eventually we realized this isn't a coincidence. They would go tell their friends, and then their friends would be like, well, don't you know?
And then they, you know, wouldn't come back. So, yeah, so we kept going. And then there was a particular group in June that there was a a rumor going around on Facebook that the coffee shop was a front for conversion therapy. And so there was a particular group in the neighborhood that, like, didn't like that and started protesting us as well. So we ended up closing the beginning of August.
So from like mid August till we closed, they protested us 3 times. And then on our final Saturday, they, planned a a celebration slash protest for us, And we just decided not to open that day and, and move on. So, yeah. So what was yeah, a major dream for us and what we saw as an answer to prayer, just the way that we fundraise and the money came in. We wanted to kind of fight and keep going as long as we could.
But like I got to the point where I just didn't feel peace anymore working there and stayed probably too long even after, like, feeling that way. Just, you know, hoping that something would turn the tide. But I I stopped working in the shop the middle of June, and then my husband stayed until, like I said, the early August. And then we decided to close the doors to the public, which was very disappointing, very sad. But we felt like we had been obedient along the way and we did see God move and work in that space.
And there is a family that is the mom, 2 children, and her mom have now been baptized and rededicated their life to Jesus because one day she came into a coffee shop. So what we feel like is we presented the gospel, and some people accepted it, but many have rejected it. Yeah. That's where we find ourselves. I I'd love to hear go a little deeper with you because what you want the stories always be is you follow God's leading, and everything explodes.
But I heard recently, someone I really respect talking about in leadership. When they look at Jesus, probably the maybe the hardest thing he had to go through on the cross was being misunderstood. And how hard it is when you're in a position of spiritual leadership when whoever it is you're trying to serve and love doesn't understand what you're doing. So just talk to others who are in a tough spot of ministry right now about the journey you've been through personally of just doing something with a sincere heart being misunderstood and then it not going the way you were hoping that it would go? What have you learned, and how would you encourage others who either are or may soon be in a position like you're in?
Yeah. Those are big questions. And, honestly, ones I'm still processing. Being here in Boston, like it really felt like coming home to me because, like I mentioned, the culture here is very similar to where I grew up, or I lived until, you know, saying yes to Jesus and going wherever you told me to go. So it was easy coming here.
Like, I think some people, like, on the outside looking in would be like, wow. Like, you should never go there. Like, it's a really hard place. Like, you know, we hear some different stats, but 4 to 8 percent of the population are evangelical Protestants, you know, so there's a significant, like, Catholic population, but there are a lot of people here who, have moved here specifically to get away from their past. And a lot and often that's connected to Christianity.
So there are people here who are quite hostile towards the gospel. And so we thought creating this space would be kind of neutral ground for people, so that they could reconnect with, you know, Christians and maybe re-explore faith or, you know, and even some for the first time. So, yes, so we knew it was gonna be hard, but, like, you know, you hear, but anything is possible with God, you know? And, you know, like, that's absolutely true. But what does it mean when the thing you try that you feel led by God to do fails.
So, yeah, I mean, the questions I've asked god are obviously why, what's next, What did I do wrong? So kinda I'll go backwards. Like, I don't sense that we did anything wrong. What's next? I'm a marketplace church planter.
Like, that's who I am. So I wanna try again. Like but I'm trying to figure out if that's here in Boston or somewhere else. I wanted to be Boston, but there's just some there's hesitation to try something, you know, even though it's a different part of the city, different neighborhood. One would assume this the same thing's gonna happen.
Not it might not. And I'm enough of a optimist to, like, wanna give people the benefit of the doubt and try again. So we're trying to figure that out and why, you know, did it not work? I think it did work. Like I say, it failed because it's no longer operating, But I was just actually sharing this with, some friends the other day.
Like, I kinda feel like what we needed to do in that space happened. Like, we completed the task. And I don't know what the outcome is necessarily for it. But I do like I said, I do know we presented the gospel and some accepted and some rejected, and that's what we're called to do. It's it's really easy to blame ourselves, but I actually, I was listening to a podcast once where, a church planter had to close his church and he said, we give god god the glory.
We give him praise when things go well, and when they don't, we blame ourselves. But God's the same God. You know? He's still in control. And, yeah, I think, though, we planted many seeds.
I think I will water them, and there will be fruit. And I don't know. Again, I don't know how or when or why, but I think I just trust God with the outcome. You know? We've tried to be faithful, but we're letting him be the one who brings the fruit.
Well, man, I know you're inspiring me and many who are listening to this by your faithfulness and, hope. And I know also that, from conversations, there's been opportunities for you to respond, in many different ways, and you've chosen to respond with love, and with grace no matter how things went from from outsiders. So, maybe just finish with those who are listening. How can they specifically pray for you? How can they pray for the people in your area?
And then if they wanna reach out and connect in some way to your church, what would be the the pathway for them to do that? Sure. Yeah. So prayer. Like I mentioned, it's hard to picture public church, like, moving forward without the marketplace piece to it, the vision that we had for businesses.
We're continuing to meet and gather as a church, but I am in a discernment time. And so prayer just for wisdom and direction would be fantastic to know. Like, I don't wanna make any decisions based off of fear, but like, we have a lot more wisdom now about Boston than we did, you know, the first time around. So I wanna be faithful with, obviously, God's resources and be obedient. Like, that's what I ultimately want at the end of the day.
And, you know, we are a little angry. We're a little hurt. So healing, prayers for healing, and I ultimately just want to, yeah, continue to be obedient to God. And if people wanna contact us, we are on social media as Public Church Boston, and also still as Public Coffee Boston. And so, yeah, DM there or email me, amanda@publicchurchboston.com.
Well, Amanda, thank you for sharing with such authenticity and just a real story of someone who's pursuing marketplace ministry on the front lines. I know many people will will be inspired and benefit from how you've taught us and what we're learning through your example. So we really appreciate it, and thanks so much for coming on. Thank you for having me. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Marketplace Multipliers podcast.
For more information, go to www.marketplacemultipliers.com. Please like and subscribe to this podcast and share with others who may benefit. And remember, you too can integrate your faith and influence your workplace for Christ.