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For too long, career services has been an afterthought. Now it's time for career services to be in the driver's seat, leading institutional strategy around career readiness. Join us every other Tuesday for in-depth interviews with today’s most innovative career leaders about how they’re building a campus culture of career readiness… or what we call Career Everywhere.
Jeremy Schifeling:
I can't control the economy. I can't control AI, but I control the actions I take today to change my outcomes tomorrow. And that internal locus of control and ability that you believe that you have power at your fingertips to do something about the world, that is so important. I think it's just as important for coaches as students because we can sit on the sidelines or we can say, "Hey, this is a big moment. I need to be there for my students and the best way to be there is to dive into the action."
Meredith Metsker:
Hey everyone, welcome back to the Career Everywhere podcast. I'm your host, Meredith Metsker, and today I am joined by Jeremy Schifeling, founder of The Job Insiders. He's also an AI and ChatGPT expert, a keynote speaker, a top-ranking author, and a former higher ed career services leader. Thank you for being here, Jeremy.
Jeremy Schifeling:
I'm so excited to be here. Thanks for having me on, Meredith.
Meredith Metsker:
Yeah, I'm super glad to have you and it's great to see you again after having you speak at our Career Everywhere conference back in July.
Jeremy Schifeling:
Yeah, that was awesome. I feel like for anyone who wasn't there, can't imagine it. Just imagine the coolest conference with the coolest people. That's what it was all about.
Meredith Metsker:
Oh, thank you so much. And it's just the most beautiful venue. I just love that space on the MIT campus. It's gorgeous. But for those of you who are watching or listening who are not at the conference, Jeremy led a great interactive session on Three Specific Ways Career Services Teams Can Use AI. It was so good and so informative. And if you were there, I think you'll agree with me that Jeremy's enthusiasm and excitement for this topic is just infectious. So, Jeremy, I knew I needed to have you on the podcast too, because I want to pick your brain on how AI is impacting the world of work and what career services professionals need to know.
So, we'll dig into how AI is impacting jobs right now, how it might impact jobs in the future, what skills might be more in demand, and how career services leaders can stay on top of all these changes and make sure our students are prepared. So, it's a big topic, but I am so excited to dig into this with you, and I know this is all very top of mind for you, as I believe you are literally writing a book on this topic. Is that right?
Jeremy Schifeling:
That's exactly right. So, this is a nice little break from writer's block, but excited to get that out into the world.
Meredith Metsker:
Yeah, I love it. I'm excited to hear more about that. Before I get into my questions, Jeremy, is there anything else you would like to add about yourself, your background or your work around AI or The Job Insiders?
Jeremy Schifeling:
Yeah, absolutely. Just the idea that I've lived all these things myself. I think a lot of times people say, "Oh, you look at some fancy career book on the shelf. This person has never had to go through these journeys." And I've been there. I've been a kindergarten teacher, I've been a nonprofit worker, I've worked in higher ed. I've worked for big companies and small companies. So, I know that careers are long and winding and they're very complicated, but I also know there's lots of opportunity at the end of that rainbow if you know where to look. So, definitely excited to bring all that and all I've learned the hard way to be here today.
Meredith Metsker:
Yeah, I love that. And I can totally see you being a kindergarten teacher. They must have loved your vibe and your enthusiasm.
Jeremy Schifeling:
Well, it definitely started out that way. I think once they saw my handwriting and they were like, "Wow, we've got better handwriting than this guy." That was the beginning of the end for my kindergarten teaching career.
Meredith Metsker:
Well, as a fellow person with terrible handwriting, I can relate to that. Okay. Before I get into my more specific questions about our topic today, I do want to kick us off with the question I ask all of our guests here on the podcast, and that's what does Career Everywhere mean to you?
Jeremy Schifeling:
Yeah, I really love that being the theme for the conference and also the community that you run, because I think it does speak to the fact that especially in this moment when the job market is so tough and so tough, especially for young people, we as educators, whether it's K through 12, higher ed, wherever, we all have a responsibility to support career stuff. I know a lot of times we tend to silo things like, "Oh, they're the career folks. We're the admission folks. We're the faculty." I think the reality is we all need to come together today to support that next generation.
Meredith Metsker:
Yeah. Yeah, that's great. I have worked in higher ed too, and I remember a lot of times people would respond to new ideas with, "That's not my job. That's not my job." But I love this about the Career Everywhere concept. This career is everyone's job, or at least it should be if we're doing it right.
Jeremy Schifeling:
Absolutely. And I think more and more if we can find ways to bring others into the fold, to have a faculty member or just a mentor in the community who wants to give back, we're going to find that there's a lot of willingness for that. There's this whole psychological concept of generativity, which is the idea that the more successful you are, the hungrier you are to lead that legacy for the next generation. So, if we can just tap into that innate goodwill, I think we're going to be a lot stronger in everything we do.
Meredith Metsker:
Yeah. Could not agree more. Okay. So now, I would love to dig into our topic today, which is again, how AI is Impacting the world of work and what career services leaders can do to make sure their students are prepared. So, I'm just going to jump right into it. From your perspective, how is AI impacting the workforce? And maybe let's start with the present state of things, and then we can dig into what the future might look like.
Jeremy Schifeling:
Yeah. So, it's really interesting because I've already been wrong about AI a couple of times. I was lucky enough when I was working at Khan Academy to get early access to ChatGPT before we even launched to the public. And when it first came out, I was thinking, "Wow, this is going to be a total net good for young people and job seekers because they're all going to use it to find great jobs, and it's going to be Kumbaya everywhere." And of course, the reality is that ChatGPT came out and Gemini came out, and Claude came out, and the students of the world started using it to write their cover letters and make up their resumes, and it basically hurt a lot more job seekers than it helped at least in the first couple of years. That's my fundamental belief. So, I was wrong about that.
Number two. I think there was this idea, first of AI is going to take our jobs. And then when we didn't see that happen automatically, when no robot showed up in our cubicle to seize our office, we're like, "Phew, okay. It's totally good." But now I start to see that changing too, where it's not just changing how we look for jobs, it's changing the jobs that are available. And we can get more into this, but a lot of the data is already showing that two groups are highly impacted. Number one, unfortunately, is Gen Z, and they've already got a lot of headwinds to begin with. And then number two, are folks on the technical side. The very folks we thought were safe are actually now firmly in the crosshairs of where AI is headed. So definitely it's going to influence not just the process that we all go through, but ultimately the outcome. What jobs can we get at the end of the day?
Meredith Metsker:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And probably not only what jobs we get, but how we get those jobs. Like you said, we're already seeing how AI is influencing interviewing. I've heard people say they can clearly tell someone is using ChatGPT during an interview, which is, bold move. But yeah, I think it will be interesting to see how that continues to affect things in the future which segues into the next question. So, how do you think AI will impact jobs in the future and even the way that we work?
Jeremy Schifeling:
Yeah, absolutely. So, I think the reality is that AI, from a pure greed perspective, companies saying, "Hey, we can do more with less. We can lay off some of our workforce. We can pop up our stock price to make Wall Street happy, make ourselves richer." That's absolutely going to happen. It's already happening for sure. The reality is that for those of us who are left behind to do those jobs, we now have both a challenge and an opportunity. The challenge, of course, is we again, has to get more done. We have fewer teammates, and instead we have these tools and we've got to figure out how to use. So, becoming a master of those tools, not just in a generic sense, everyone's like, "How can I get my AI certificate? How can I prove that I'm AI ready?" Well, as with any tool, the real power of it is the application in your job, not just the generic knowledge. If you say, "I'm an Excel wizard," but you don't know how to use Excel specifically for accounting, what's the point if you're an accountant? So, I think that's the first thing.
And then number two, I think the opportunity is if we are truly freed up from some of the drudgery, having AI do some of the stuff that is the worst of our jobs, could we now use that time on more productive things? And one of the things I really believe is in the same way that Excel freed up accountants from just having to purely add up numbers all day long, and they could actually think about the strategy for the company, how can we increase our cashflow and all of that, maybe every one of us with this new tool can spend less time on the chores, more time on thinking, imagining, starting to dream up what's possible, which I think is really the upside of AI, not just cost-cutting.
Meredith Metsker:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I know I have been thinking here at uConnect, how can I use AI and ChatGPT to help, to do some of those more, I don't even know what you would call it, the more menial tasks?
Jeremy Schifeling:
And let's just give your listeners an example.
Meredith Metsker:
Yeah.
Jeremy Schifeling:
At the end of this, we're using this tool, Riverside. Riverside will generate a show transcript, show notes, social media posts, whoever felt like, "Oh, the best thing that I've ever done in my job was to generate show notes for a podcast." And yet, every podcast in the world had to do that manually until a couple of years ago. So, I think that's a perfect example.
Meredith Metsker:
Yes, exactly. Or even generating chapters in a video recording or generating a YouTube video description, those kinds of things. Of course, I'm always reviewing what ChatGPT spits out, but sometimes the hardest part is getting started and it has helped eliminate that challenge.
Jeremy Schifeling:
Yeah. And I think that really speaks to the coaches out there because I think one of the things that I'm still seeing even in 2025, three years after the launch of ChatGPT is a lot of folks say, "I'm scared. Again, that fear of either it's going to take my job or I'm going to be left in the dust of this digital revolution." And then what I say is, "Hey, unlike Excel, unlike all these tools where maybe you can press the wrong button and mess up years' worth of work, AI is totally different." AI is more like a Play-Doh. And just like with Play-Doh, we can't break it except for maybe leaving it out and letting it get stale. You can try these tools in any different configuration for coaching, for your own admin work, see what's possible, maybe get some results that you're not happy with, but so be it. You move on and you learn as opposed to just living in fear that, "Oh my goodness, I might actually mess up the whole thing with one wrong click."
Meredith Metsker:
Yeah, yeah, exactly. I think that's again, another good segue to my next question. So, what skills do you see being more in demand as AI becomes more integrated into our work and into society? And then on the opposite side, what skills might fall by the wayside a little bit?
Jeremy Schifeling:
Yeah, so this is my favorite question. I have a very bold and self-serving prophecy to make here.
Meredith Metsker:
Let's do it.
Jeremy Schifeling:
So, I think if we sit here at the end of 2025 and look back on the last quarter-century, it's pretty easy to say that the last 25 years were the revenge of the nerds brought to life. Everyone who got made fun of for going to the computer club back in high school and then working on some side projects on their computer on the weekends, now, they were the ones who were inheriting the Earth, making the big bucks, getting all these cool jobs. But where I see the next 25 years headed is the exact opposite. Instead of the revenge of the nerds, it's the revenge of the liberal arts. The very folks who are told by everyone from President Obama to Mark Andreessen, "Quit that English degree. Go learn to code." Now, it's finally our time to shine.
Because if you think about the very things that AI can do well, it's what those coders can do. Pump out some basic code, do some data science, all the stuff that folks have counted on as their bread and butter for the last 25 years, and then very things that can't do well, understanding other people, building deep relationships, communicating effectively. That's the stuff that I think that human advantage is going to be even more important with. And I think you're going to see a lot of folks with those English majors who are finally proud to flaunt it.
Meredith Metsker:
Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, even just thinking of my own background, I guess some liberal arts and journalism, it's like a very applicable, more linear liberal arts path than maybe some others. But yeah, learning how to communicate how to appear on camera and on microphone has been very helpful, how to interview even.
Jeremy Schifeling:
Absolutely. Yeah. And I think it's one of those things where we took it for granted when it was just something that everyone did all the time. But if you think about a lot of the critiques of Gen Z, the critiques are like these are folks who may be very good with technology, but they're not good with the human algorithm, connecting with other people face-to-face in the real world. And I think if we can raise the next generation to be strong in those areas, I can even imagine going back to those dusty old rhetoric books from 100 years ago, Here's How You Speak Persuasively. That's going to be a valuable commodity in a world where everyone can code, but very few people can move another person to take action.
Meredith Metsker:
Yeah. And I was just thinking too, as you were talking about the types of skills that will be in demand, hopefully, this will also be a relief to career coaches who maybe might be concerned about how AI might affect their jobs, the things that they are doing, this one-on-one, working with students, these making connections to employers, that's not something that ChatGPT can do. What they are doing is so, so valuable.
Jeremy Schifeling:
Yeah. The one thing about AI that I was right about, everything else I was wrong, was when I told career coaches back in the late 2022 days when ChatGPT came out, "Don't worry. This is absolutely a compliment to your strengths, not a substitute for it." That has certainly come true because unless you were a bad career coach, the one who only was doing resume reviews, just circling stuff with your red pen, yeah, now AI can probably do that better than most coaches. But if you were doing the truly transcendent stuff, getting to know another human being, understanding their hopes and dreams, helping them see a possibility, that's the stuff where combined with AI's ability to review that resume, you've now got the best of both worlds.
Meredith Metsker:
Yeah, yeah, for sure. And hopefully, students will see the value in being able to talk to a career coach and having that career coach see them, truly see them and understand them, as you were saying.
Jeremy Schifeling:
Yeah, I mean, I think it's happening already, right? We're seeing it in the therapy world where there's now becoming this two-tier system. Everyone has access to a basic therapist through ChatGPT or whatever tool you prefer. And I think people are still saying, "Hey, I would prefer even with that free tool to pay a massive premium for a human therapist because it feels more relatable, I feel more accountable. I literally have more skin in the game with this person than with a fake therapist."
Meredith Metsker:
Yeah. For sure. So, knowing all of this about how AI is going to impact things now and in the future, the skills are more in demand, what can career services professionals do right now in the short term to help prepare their students for this changing workforce?
Jeremy Schifeling:
Yeah. Absolutely. So, I've got a three-step plan because I think that a lot of times if you're in higher ed and you see a 27-bullet point message from the provost, you're like, I don't know. I'm make it really simple. First one comes back to that Play-Doh point, which is just use it. I know in higher ed, we all love white papers and research. But the reality is, and I say this as a former kindergarten teacher, you will never learn a skill as well just by reading about it as by using it and doing it every single day. So just challenge yourself every single day, I'm going to try to write our career newsletter with AI's help. I'm going to try to create a cool image for our social media posts with one of these AI tools. Even if it's terrible, at least you have a sense of the constraints.
Number two. Once you start to use it's going to become pretty clear what it's good at and what it's not. And that's where you can help the next step, which is teaching students to use it the right way. Again, so many students using it willy-nilly because they saw some TikTok video pumping out cover letter after cover letter that they think are great because they're grammatically correct, but are actually terrible in the eyes of a recruiter because the recruiter doesn't want a generic grammatically correct cover letter. They want one that's full of passion, that's full of personality that shows me the true candidate. And so, if we can teach them, "Hey, this is the red line you don't want to cross where you're throwing away your personality, your unique advantage, and just outsourcing that to AI, but do use AI for research and to analyze your resume and to see what's out there." Now, we help students make the best choices.
And then finally, I think this is the big thing that's coming out now is because the world of work is starting to change, we've got to change with it as coaches where we actually guide students to AI proof their career. On one hand, that's mastering AI themselves being really good at this tool. It's going to be critical for getting the job and keeping the job. But number two, steering them towards the jobs that will actually continue to be strong in the future, maybe a little bit away from the usual suspects that may start to go down a bit as this AI revolution unfolds.
Meredith Metsker:
Okay, yeah, that's great. I want to dig into that the last point you made. So, in your mind, what are some of those jobs that maybe career leaders should be taking a closer look at or directing students to more?
Jeremy Schifeling:
Yeah. Absolutely. So, I think it really correlates to everything we've discussed in terms of what are the skills of the future in terms of demand. If all of a sudden coding as a commodity, there are still going to be coders, there's still going to be people who are really best in the world at it. But if you are only doing coding as a mercenary, getting a CS major because your mom told you to because you think it'll give you a good job, but you actually hate coding, probably not a good fit for you because there's going to be some AI out there who will actually do a lot more than you because it doesn't have all the qualms that you have. So, really being careful about that.
I think the jobs that will start to open up are the ones that maybe take AI and help connect with humans. So, let's throw out an example. Let's say that I need a salesperson in 2030. If you're a salesperson who can't do AI, you're out of the running. I need someone who has that skill set. But if you can use AI to build a killer pitch deck that just makes your prospective clients salivate and then tell that story in person to win over the person who just sent in an AI recorded video, now it relates to the best of the both worlds. You are good at AI skills in your domain, but you're good at the human skills that give you a big advantage over all the folks who are too afraid to get out of the building.
Meredith Metsker:
Right. Yeah. And I'm curious, with some of these AI skills that will be more in demand in the future, are there any resources you would recommend or things that career leaders should recommend to their students in terms of building those skills?
Jeremy Schifeling:
Yeah. Absolutely. So, I think the number one thing that career coaches can do is stop assuming what I always assumed at the University of Michigan that students are going to learn all this in their classes. Like, "Oh, the faculty will figure it out and all they have to do is teach them how to make resumes." No way. I think we've become a full-stack career office in that true Career Everywhere sense by saying, "Hey, we don't want you just to get ready for the job search. We want you to get ready for the job. And that means we're going to challenge you to build out a sample marketing campaign or to build out a data visualization dashboard. Because A, you're going to build the skills while you do those things. And then B, you're going to have this amazing portfolio that you can show your future hiring manager against a lot of wannabes who just use ChatGPT to write a cover letter." And so, I think if we can give folks not just the experience with job search skills, but the experience with the key skills period, now they're in better shape for all that comes next.
Meredith Metsker:
Yeah, I think that's a really great point that it's not just teaching students how to use ChatGPT for one-off projects, though that's important, but what is probably most impressive to an employer is how they use ChatGPT as part of a larger strategy. Again, as a compliment what you were saying in along those lines, you just mentioned an example, but I'm curious if there are other examples that you are seeing in job descriptions or hearing about from employers that incorporate those AI skills?
Jeremy Schifeling:
Yeah. Absolutely. So first of all, just the keyword itself in the sense of the showing up in job descriptions the same way that Microsoft Office used to show up in job descriptions is blowing up. It is completely through the roof in terms of the percentage growth over the last couple of years as you might expect. So, I think for anyone out there who's like, "Hey, AI is theoretically great, just don't ever use it when you're developing your job applications," know that that's baloney. Like the recruiters of the world, the hiring managers of the world, they want you to use AI because that's a critical skill. They just want you to use it the right way. So that's number one.
Number two is, I think, and a lot of it is less about the resume, the cover letter, even the LinkedIn profile, than it is about the interview. We all know that behavioral interviewing is the number one way that employers try to figure out, "Hey, does Meredith have what it takes? Can Jeremy really do this based on what he's done before?" If they start digging into something and they uncover that basically you just asked ChatGPT and did whatever it said, that's not good enough. But to your point, Meredith, if you can lay out a whole story of incorporating AI into a larger framework, thinking about the human decision makers at the end of the process, ultimately delivering a better result with this power that is catnip to every hiring manager in the world right now.
Meredith Metsker:
Oh yeah, for sure. Because not only does it show that you are keeping up with current skills and that you're thinking ahead, but you also understand how technology can compliment those human skills to create a strategy that actually works and appeals to other humans because who is typically buying if you're working in a company and someone's buying your product, who's buying that product? Another person, more than likely.
Jeremy Schifeling:
Yeah. Absolutely. I think we've gotten so focused recently on this idea of bot versus bot battle. I'm using my bot to generate a resume, and then the recruiter's bot is reading it. When we're forgetting is the end of the day until the singularity arrives, humans will be choosing other humans. And if we lose sight of that fundamental empathy for the person behind the scenes, the wizard behind the curtains, if you will, then I think we've ultimately hurt ourselves in the process because that empathy is what's going to make us successful on the job as well.
Meredith Metsker:
Yeah, yep, for sure. So, okay, we talked about what career services leaders can do right now here in the short term, but is there anything that they should be thinking about in the long term when it comes to AI's impacts on the world of work and what it means for their students?
Jeremy Schifeling:
Yeah. Absolutely. So, I'm going to give career coaches and career leaders the same advice I give their students. I always, in all of my workshops talking about this, I say, "Look, 2025 was a tough year between AI and trade wars and politics and a million other things going on." You can just feel like, "Whoa, why did I have to be the person looking for a job or coaching someone on a job during this really awful moment?" And that's what the psychologist would say is very common, but as an external locus of control, basically the idea, "Woe is me. Why did this have to happen to me?" Even during the worst times, great recession, great depression, name any tough moment in human history, there are always people who survive and succeed by taking the exact opposite tact.
I can't control the economy, I can't control AI, but I control the actions I take today to change my outcomes tomorrow. And that internal locus of control, that ability that you believe that you have power at your fingertips to do something about the world, that is so important. And I think it's just as important for coaches as students because we can sit on the sidelines or we can say, "Hey, this is a big moment. I need to be there for my students, and the best way to be there is to dive into the action."
Meredith Metsker:
Yeah, yeah. Agreed. And I often see this with LinkedIn too. You see a lot of career services professionals, they're very active on LinkedIn, and so they are learning how to use this really important tool that their students are also going to have to learn.
Jeremy Schifeling:
Yes. I mean, I know I'm totally repeating myself here, but it's so fascinating to me. It's like every single coach I speak to says, "Jeremy, what's the blog I should read? What's the book I should read?" I said, "By the time a book comes out about all these AI algorithms," and I say this even as an author myself, "it's going to be three years out of date." So, the single best way to stay ahead of the curve is to dive right into that weight.
Meredith Metsker:
Yeah. Yeah. That's really good advice. And also, funny as you're releasing a book.
Jeremy Schifeling:
Yes. A little ironic.
Meredith Metsker:
So, on that note, again, we'll just dig more into this, but how can career services folks stay up to date on all these changes? It feels like job and work are changing on an almost daily basis, hourly, it feels like. So, I'm curious, where do you go to find reliable, timely information about AI, its impacts on the workforce, things like that?
Jeremy Schifeling:
Yeah. Absolutely. So, I think the best thing that I would recommend to folks, and this is especially important for career coaches as well as students, is to build up those empathy muscles by putting yourself in their shoes. So, one thing that I always show students is look at the LinkedIn recruiter screen or look at this ATS review screen. Imagine that you were the person who had to choose a needle out of this digital haystack, and they're like, "Whoa, that is super hard." And all of a sudden, the recruiter is no longer the enemy, but they totally understand, "Aha, if that's what they're up against, here's what I have to give them to help them and to help me."
And so, I think that if career coaches can say, "You know what? I'm just going to try it out myself. I'm going to either apply for a job just to see how it goes, or I'm going to look at our own ATS system talking to our own recruiters inside our university." I think that's going to give them a better sense of what's actually happening today than just reading some crystal ball guy like me saying, oh, here's where I think things are headed.
Meredith Metsker:
Yeah, that's great advice. And it actually makes me think of a past episode of this podcast. I talked with Cheryl Rotyliano from Wake Forest College of Business, and she literally set up an ATS simulation where students have to be on the other side. They are given a task, they need to hire someone for a specific role, and so they have to go through all of this through a recruiter's shoes. And she said it has been very eye-opening for a lot of students on what recruiters are dealing with.
Jeremy Schifeling:
Big props to Cheryl, because that is awesome. I have to say, those Wake students are super lucky because if you have a coach who is willing to give you that empathetic experience, then well on your way.
Meredith Metsker:
Yeah, it always helps just to understand the other person, for sure. I am curious, I am hoping for more examples here for career leaders. So, let's say they have a student coming in for a career coaching appointment, or maybe they're trying to think of programming around the use of AI. What are some tasks or some projects or something like that that they can talk with students about?
Jeremy Schifeling:
Yeah. Absolutely. So, let's get into the nitty-gritty here. I know I covered some of this at the conference, but for those who didn't hear it, I want you to hear it firsthand. And that is, number one, don't separate AI out from your traditional programming. I think if you say, "Oh, this is the AI track." It makes it seem weird and exotic when in fact, as we talked about, AI is best used in context, not as a little parlor trick over here on the side. So, if I was leading, say, a career exploration workshop at the very beginning of the year, maybe even before students matriculate, I would say, "I don't want you coming in here choosing the usual suspect jobs. Oh, I've got to be a consultant. I've got to be a banker. That's what everyone's doing." I want you to see what's out there. I want you to go to ChatGPT or whatever your IT team prefers, Copilot, Gemini. They all work the same and say, "Here are my strengths, here are my passions." And then Ikigai style, that famous Japanese Venn diagram, "What are 10 job titles that match my skills and strengths that are available to someone at my level with my degree?"
And all of a sudden, they're like, "Wait a second, I didn't know about that job. I didn't know about that." Because think about this, we get so much information as kids, but very little information about the world of careers and what's actually out there beyond just the usual suspect jobs. And if already on day one, your incoming students are thinking about a job that actually fits them versus just the job that their friend wants or their mom wants, they are so much better every step of the way of that journey than the person who just fell into that FOMO trap. So that's just an example. But yeah, obviously AI applies at each stage.
Meredith Metsker:
Yeah, that's a great example and a good example of your point earlier about how a ChatGPT could be great for research. Maybe it's not the end all be all, but it at least helps you get started. And I mean, just think of how much time it would take you normally to find all of those potential job paths, learn more about what each of them entail, who's hiring for roles like that, what it takes to get roles like that.
Jeremy Schifeling:
Yeah, I think you actually just gave me an idea, Meredith, which is in some ways I was trying to think about a way to frame up what actually is the big ROI unlock of AI and career coaching and job searching. And I've always talked about it as here's what students do, but here's what they should really be doing. And we know that students tend to focus on resumes and cover letters, whereas they should really be focusing on career exploration and interview prep and other things. But I was thinking that the big way of thinking about it is what do we know as coaches all the really important stuff that students hate? So, talking to alumni, learning about careers, doing mock interviews.
Students are always in a hurry to apply online, even though we all know that's the most inefficient strategy. If we can basically take the broccoli that is career exploration or the liver that is job interview prep and make it a little more appealing, a little less intimidating for students, maybe that's the real power because now we get more students to come along with us and actually do those really important activities.
Meredith Metsker:
Yeah. There you go. If you're watching, you're listening, there's some programming ideas for you right there. Yeah. I imagine it would be helpful to do research on someone you're interviewing with. Tell me about their background. Yeah, things like that.
Jeremy Schifeling:
Yeah. Here's the ultimate hack. What is an interview, but a crystal ball for the hiring manager to imagine how you're actually going to perform on the job. Why would we do it otherwise if we weren't trying to predict the future? And so, a lot of students will come in and they treat it as this game, like another SAT, another set of bullet points that have to fill in with their number two pencil on the Scantron. When in fact, for the hiring manager, it's very much basically, "Can you solve my pain? Can you be the Advil that makes my headache go away?" And what you can do is you can take the job description, you can take the hiring manager's LinkedIn profile and say, "Hey, what does this person really care about? What are their biggest challenges? What are they trying to solve?"
And once you start to understand, "Hey, I get that, I can fix that for them. I can make that better." Now, not only do you have really good answers for the interview, but you're more confident walking into the interview because you've gotten rid of imposter syndrome. You believe you belong there because you've translated all that HREs into plain English.
Meredith Metsker:
And you can show that you used AI.
Jeremy Schifeling:
Yes, exactly.
Meredith Metsker:
And that's a very real-world application.
Jeremy Schifeling:
Yes.
Meredith Metsker:
Yeah. I always mention as an example for how career services leaders can use AI is if you're trying to align to institutional priorities or understand where your work fits in, find all of the state of the university addresses, find your university strategic plan, put it into ChatGPT, and ask it to pull out some key high-level elements.
Jeremy Schifeling:
Oh, I love that. I'm going to have to steal that one, Meredith-
Meredith Metsker:
Yeah.
Jeremy Schifeling:
Because I think we've all faced document overload, and AI is here to help.
Meredith Metsker:
Yes. That's one of the best parts about it. Again, it at least gives you a starting point. Well, Jeremy, you've offered a lot of great insights already, but is there any other advice you would give to career services leaders about AI or how they can prepare students?
Jeremy Schifeling:
Yeah. I think that wrapped up in this challenge, and I would say most of us look at this as, "Oh, man, this is really daunting." It's a hidden opportunity. And this is my honest feeling. I think that career leadership and career centers inside the university have not always gotten the respect they've deserved because they're seen as a cost center versus fundraising or admissions or whomever is bringing in money. And the reality is, is that as we move to this new model of ROI, back decision making for higher ed investment, a parent says, "Hey, I'm only going to send you if I believe that you actually get a job out of this experience." Now, career centers have to rise up and they have to do two things. Number one, they have to prove that they belong at that table. So, they're speaking the language of AI, they're speaking the language of the skills of the future. And then number two, they have to walk the talk. They have to deliver results.
And I think a lot of faculty, a lot of members of the higher ed community are a little sort of ducking their heads when it comes to AI. They're like, "Oh, this has ruined all my assignments. Now I've got to go back and rewrite all my multiple choice tests from 30 years ago." Whereas, if career leaders can truly lead on this topic, be that one point of light inside the higher education firmament that says, "Hey, this is happening, this is here, and we're all over it and we're ready to lead." That just gives them not just much more respect, but the resources they need to go out there and do it.
Meredith Metsker:
Yeah. And they become that trusted partner for faculty. They know who they can turn to if they want the latest and greatest that they want ideas for how to integrate it into curriculum, things like that. So yeah, it's a great piece of advice. On that note, what's one thing a career leader could do today to get started on that?
Jeremy Schifeling:
Yeah. Absolutely. So, I think if I was a career leader, and this is stealing your idea at Meredith of uploading some documents, I would want to start with a little digital autopsy of how things are going today. So, take my student outcome data, my first destination data, my employee relations data, all that good stuff, feed it into whatever tool that gives you the most privacy because obviously that's sensitive data. And then basically say, "Hey, what is not working today?" Obviously, we always celebrate our successes, our great placement rates, all that other good stuff. But what is a potential threat? And you can even use the language of generate a SWOT analysis for the career center that stands for strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and threats, and obviously celebrate the strengths, but say, "Hey, we have this big challenge. Maybe we've been sending 85% of our students into technical roles, and some of those roles are starting to disappear as we speak. How do we prepare ourselves for where we're headed?"
And I think if you can get ahead of it by starting to tap into the data that you have to see what the insights are pointing you towards, you can start to build out that humanistic plan that says, "Hey, we're not going to be behind the eight ball on this one. We're not going to be surprised. We're going to go right to the provost, to the president, to whomever and say, "This is what's coming. This is what we're doing about it."
Meredith Metsker:
Yeah, that's great advice. And it's made me think of another question. So, I'm curious what you would say to a career services leader who is maybe still hesitant about AI, not necessarily because they're intimidated by it, but maybe they're concerned about privacy or security things or environmental concerns, things like that. I guess, what would you say to them just to get them comfortable with it or thinking about those kinds of things? And is there anything those career leaders could say to students who might have similar concerns?
Jeremy Schifeling:
Yeah. First of all, those are totally valid concerns. When we talk about using AI, it's not like, "Oh, go use it blindly and just use it for every little thing." But instead, like any tool, use it wisely. Use it appropriately. And it is true that especially when you talk about privacy or energy, there are actions you can take today to reduce some of those concerns. So, on the aspect of privacy, if you're using any of these tools, by default, they always say, "We're going to use your data to build our models to make our models better." And that's obviously a huge risk, especially when you're working with any student data, FERPA data, all that stuff. So, you always want to turn those things off, certainly use whatever tools your IT team recommends to get the full protected environment.
And then when it comes to environmental impact, it's true that the leading-edge models, the one that we're all being told we have to use all the time, use something like X, more water and energy than the most basic models. And yet the reality is most of us are not doing rocket science calculations with AI. We are not going to basically blow up the space shuttle depending on whether we get a decimal point wrong. Instead, we're doing directional research. What are some great jobs for our students? What are some great strategies for our career center? Even the most basic AI can help us start to imagine what's possible.
And so, if you want to reduce your carbon footprint, definitely feel free to always default to the most basic AI unless you have super technical questions where you need that advanced horsepower. And then, I would share that information with students, let them know, "Hey, we are a fair dealer when it comes to these tools. We're not pro-AI or anti-AI." We say, "Hey, this is the reality. Here's how we're going to make the best use of it given our limited resources."
Meredith Metsker:
Thank you. That's a great answer. And it's helpful because I know I think about that too. Every time I put a prompt in, I'm like, "Oh, man, I live in Colorado. We're already riddled with drought. What am I doing?"
Jeremy Schifeling:
Yeah, same here in California. It's crazy that our world is burning as we're spending more time mining cryptocurrency and coming up with fancy AI models that don't always do what we need them to do. So, I agree.
Meredith Metsker:
Yeah, what a time to be alive. Right? Well, Jeremy, is there anything else you would like to add about our topic today that we haven't covered?
Jeremy Schifeling:
No, I think my encouragement is just, I'm going to say something crazy Meredith, so please don't be offended. My number one thing is turn off this podcast as great as this podcast is, and go out there and start tackling these challenges. Consider it a homework assignment from your kindergarten teacher, Jeremy, to go out there, get your hands dirty, and then use that new knowledge to go lead the next generation.
Meredith Metsker:
I love it. Even if it means turning off the podcast or use it as part of your explorations, find a transcript for it or plug in a recording, say, pull out key highlights.
Jeremy Schifeling:
That's right. That's right.
Meredith Metsker:
Well, Jeremy, if people would like to connect with you or learn more from you, where is a good place to do that?
Jeremy Schifeling:
Yeah, so as a former LinkedIn employee, I have to say that my one little social media guilty pleasure is of course that big blue site. So, feel free to connect with me on there. I always try to share anything I've discovered and then happy learn from you guys as well. So, we'd love to hear from you.
Meredith Metsker:
Cool. And then, do you want to share when your book is coming out?
Jeremy Schifeling:
Yeah. So, I do have this new book that's all about AI proofing for the future, and I will have that book out in the new year 2026. So excited to share that with you all real soon.
Meredith Metsker:
Awesome. Yeah, I look forward to reading it. All right, Jeremy, so at the end of every interview we do this, answer a question, leave a question thing. So, I'll ask you a question, our last guest left for you, and then you will leave a question for the next guest. So, our last guest was Anita DeCianni Brown of SUNY Empire State, and she left this question for you, "Thinking back to your very first job, what is a skill you learned that you still use today?"
Jeremy Schifeling:
Ooh, that is a good one, Anita. Thank you for that. Well, my first job was actually as a paperboy, and I remember delivering the Buffalo news through blizzards and on the frozen tundra back in the day. And one of the things that actually still sticks with me from that time is that even though it was a really tough job, what I came to realize is it could be basically whatever I wanted it to be. I remember this one really blustery Sunday, I realized I had five extra copies of the Sunday newspaper, and this is when the Sunday edition was like 75 pounds. I was like, "Why am I just going to recycle these or throw these out? What if I go to this three corner and hawk them like the newsies of old?"
And I remember coming home after 30 minutes of yelling my lungs out with five extra bucks in my pocket, and I was like, "Wow, that wasn't part of my job description, but that was the most fun thing I've done in two years of this job." And so, I think I've tried to keep that mindset, even as a kindergarten teacher, even as a higher ed career coach. There's a lot of stuff that we got to get done, but there's also opportunity to make the job our own. And I hope everyone out there gets that chance as well.
Meredith Metsker:
I love that. And now, I've got this soundtrack from Newsies stuck in my head, if you've seen that movie or that musical. Cool. Well, what question would you like to leave for the next guest?
Jeremy Schifeling:
Yeah, I was so inspired by a news question. Because I love questions that take you across time that I actually want to give a time travel type question. So, imagine now, this is for the next guest, that you are leaving a time capsule from here in 2025 or 2026 when you hear this question. What would you put into today to help a career coach in 2125 understand our wacky world? My idea here is, again, I think our moments always feel like the craziest, whenever we happen to be alive seems absolutely wild. But to help folks in the future put it all in perspective, I think if we can capture this moment in a bottle and pay it forward to the next generation, that'll help them be even wiser.
Meredith Metsker:
Oh, that's a great question. Very thought-provoking. And it makes me think of, I was listening to a podcast interview with Ken Burns earlier this morning. So, he just released his American Revolution series, and he says, people ask him all the time, "What's happening now compared to the past, is this the worst it's ever been?" And he always goes, "No, no." But yeah, history provides good context. I'm curious, what would you put in the time capsule?
Jeremy Schifeling:
Oh, interesting.
Meredith Metsker:
I'm going to turn it back around on you, Jeremy.
Jeremy Schifeling:
Yeah, yeah. Well, I think what I would put in there is a compilation of the hopes and dreams of our society at this time, because in some ways that's what career coaching is really about, right? Dream realization, taking the ideas that we have as young people and helping us turn them into real life. And so, it would be fascinating, I think, for that person in 2125 to know what some of the hottest jobs were. The idea that many young people said they wanted to be influencers when they grow up, and then be able to compare that to whatever is the dominant form of employment 100 years in the future, to know that those dreams change. But there's always those coaches, those mentors on the side who are there to bring those dreams to life.
Meredith Metsker:
Yeah, they're like the ultimate connectors and translators. They are able to just take what you're saying and connect it with multiple employment paths. It's really such a special skill.
Jeremy Schifeling:
Absolutely. So, for all the coaches out there, much love.
Meredith Metsker:
Yes. Agreed. All right, Jeremy, well thank you so much for taking the time to do the podcast with me today. This was a really fun conversation. I think we covered a lot of high-level stuff, but also specific examples that our audience can use to help their students prepare for the rapidly changing workforce. So, just thank you very much for taking the time.
Jeremy Schifeling:
Totally my pleasure. And for everyone out there who supported the next generation, thanks for all that you do.