Hello, and welcome to the Overland Journal podcast. I'm your host, Scott Brady. And for this week, I'm joined by my co host, Matt Scott, and we go through a really fun topic of choosing our top 10 new Overland SUVs. So, we go through all of the really credible platforms in the North American market. This is not an international list.
Scott Brady:It's intended for North American available vehicles. Some of these vehicles are available in other markets, or they're available in similar variants in other markets. But we have a really fun conversation of who ends up where and why. Some of the pros and cons of each. We really dig into the nitty gritty and make sure to express our opinions around the things that we're concerned about or the things that we really love.
Scott Brady:So, please enjoy my conversation with Matt Scott on the top 10 new Overland SUVs.
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Scott Brady:Matt, we are finally back together here on the podcast, which is good.
Matt Scott:You're not gallivanting around the world?
Scott Brady:Oh, it's Africa has been so wonderful. It just like it is it is so a part of my soul right now that I just I'm grateful for every chance that I get to get go there. And traveling through Tanzania was wonderful. And traveling through Kenya was wonderful. And so far, the Grenadier has been flawless, like not a single failure.
Scott Brady:So I'm excited. I'm excited. Keep hoping for the best. It's got such potential, for sure. And today, we're going to talk about Overland vehicles.
Scott Brady:So we have done a podcast on the top 10 used Overland vehicles.
Matt Scott:But never the top 10 new Overland vehicles.
Scott Brady:Jason Yes. So these are going to be this is going to be the top 10 our top ten list for 4 wheel drive SUVs that you can buy in North America. We will likely do another one.
Matt Scott:That you can buy new. That's right. Yeah. And I think the one caveat is that there's a few models that maybe should be on the list, but they have a replacement that is so imminent. Yeah.
Matt Scott:Then maybe even by the time this podcast is available, you probably couldn't even buy one. That's right. There'll be a
Scott Brady:new model. And and they would be the other criteria we're fortunate that we're able to test all of the vehicles on the market. But, like, for example, the new GX is coming out. It's imminent. We're going to be at the press launch, but we have not driven the vehicle yet.
Scott Brady:We've seen it in person. Yeah. Tons of things to love about it. But we really can't recommend it in the top 10 because we haven't tested it yet. So you can kind of use that as a gauge.
Scott Brady:But the Lexus GX, the new one and the new Land Cruiser are both going to be formidable considerations for this list.
Matt Scott:Very much would be at the top of it.
Scott Brady:Yeah. Very they'd be pushing towards the top of the list. So we need to have that little qualifier around there. It certainly doesn't mean that Toyota isn't well represented on the list that we have. Yeah.
Scott Brady:So, yeah. So, we're going to start with number 10 and we're going to work our way up to number 1. So, we're going to have a bit of a drum roll. And people can maybe think about models that wouldn't have normally been on their lists by some, you know, covering some of these ones towards the 8, 9, 10 range. So we, Matt and I, talked at length about this.
Scott Brady:We were originally going to maybe have 2 different lists, but then we actually just worked it out together, which I think was a really good exercise. Justin Donald: And I think
Matt Scott:we agree on it. Justin Donald:
Scott Brady:We do now. Yeah. Now, like, we're like, we're like, yeah, that feels like the top ten list. So, number 10 on the list, it hurts me a little bit to say it, but number 10 on the list is the Land Rover Defender, the 130 in particular. And it's so difficult to talk about it because I love the Defender 130.
Scott Brady:I think it's a great vehicle. Every time I've ever driven one, it has completely exceeded my expectations. But it's really difficult to to recommend the vehicle actively to people when they're still struggling with so many reliability issues.
Matt Scott:Yeah. You know yeah. Let's talk about some of the positives. Yeah. Right?
Matt Scott:It's it's phenomenal on road. Yeah. It is really great off road. And and when you kinda consider that mix of on road and off road, you know, you're kinda deviating from center and that the Defender just goes so far in in either direction. Like, it's very good on road.
Matt Scott:It's it's a hoot to drive at speed off road. It's very capable, you know, in slow speed technical terrain. I love the interior.
Scott Brady:Just like My favorite interior.
Matt Scott:My favorite interior on a vehicle ever. You just get in, you throw your stuff, you know, just like you would in a regular Defender. You have this huge kinda, like, dash parcel tray. Yeah. You know?
Matt Scott:Yeah. The interior is great. The front end is, hideous. So just don't look at it. You know, don't park in front of one of those windows that's that that has, like, the Blue reflection.
Scott Brady:Thing because you're
Matt Scott:just gonna see what Jerry McGovern thinks an off road vehicle should look like. But every other angle is really, really nice. But you can't get around the fact that Land Rover, as a brand, is still dealing with issues that other car companies haven't dealt with reliability wise for 20 years. You know, there's JD Power, which we looked up to to verify for 2023. Land Rover is the least reliable v major vehicle brand sold in the United States.
Matt Scott:Yeah. Lexus is at the top of that. You know, almost a 2 to 1 spread, between Lexus and and Land Rover. And you can't Yeah.
Scott Brady:So you have a 200% more likelihood of your Land Rover having a problem than a Lexus.
Matt Scott:And, you know, there's the diehard Land Rover fans that bought, you know, the Defender and and are enthusiastic about it. I mean, to be clear, like, Scott and I are kinda are both in this because of Land Rover. Like, we love the Land Rover brand. I I love the car. Yeah.
Matt Scott:I mean, we sit here with a Defender behind us.
Scott Brady:That's right. We're recommending vehicles based on this list. So we have to be really transparent about the realities of things. I would drive a Defender 130 gladly. Like, I would enjoy it and I wouldn't worry about the reliability.
Scott Brady:I've owned a lot of Land Rovers. Yeah. So it doesn't bother me. And it's all part of the adventure for me. But if I'm going to recommend a car to someone, they need to know that there's still a lot of challenges.
Matt Scott:Yeah. It's just like if you were a company that historically had struggled with electronics, do you think that you would do an electrically supercharged turbocharged mild hybrid engine? Yeah. Like, don't do that. Yeah.
Matt Scott:Like, take a little bit out of the Toyota book. Yeah. Like, don't be ancient like Toyota is with some of their platforms, but, yeah. It's on the list because it has great payload and it has a huge roof load capacity, dynamic roof capacity. And it's a wonder to drive.
Scott Brady:I mean, when you and I drove them in Namibia, the 110, fantastic. I drove the the 130 and the 90 in the UAE recently, out to the to the border with Oman.
Matt Scott:The 90 is fantastic. Yeah.
Scott Brady:You can get a you can get a V 8
Matt Scott:in the 90.
Scott Brady:I know. It's insane. It's insane. It's The Defender 90 for me, like, it's one of those cars where I just randomly think I would like to buy a Defender 90 because it would be a superfund, you know, daily driver. And we talk about, like, these classic, like, a Range Rover Classic or an early Discovery, the new Defender 90 has a 2 inch longer wheelbase than those cars.
Scott Brady:It is easy to dismiss this thing as being too small, but it's actually as big as all of those early, like, super sought after It's it's Land Rover's.
Matt Scott:Cool. It's, you know I like it.
Scott Brady:The the engine
Matt Scott:is a vehicle that will put a smile on your face Yep. Right up until the point when the motor goes poof. Yeah. Because, unfortunately, I have I have 2 friends at a bottom that are not on their first engine. And it's just when you have that, like, that real world connection,
Scott Brady:it's really hard to ignore. Yeah. So if you're not concerned about reliability and you want a super cool vehicle, take a look at the Defender 130. It's certainly something that I have I've been very impressed with in its performance. So All right.
Scott Brady:So now number 9 on the list, and this is the first of the Toyota products that we're going to cover and a lot of representation on Toyota on the list. But this is the Lexus LX 600. So the LX 600 is a new platform. I've driven these vehicles extensively and they're based upon the Land Cruiser 300, this global, this FG platform. So, it is a Land Cruiser by all measures, including a lot of the engines that would overlap just like previous versions of the LX did.
Scott Brady:The LX100, the LX80, the LX200, those were all vehicles that were very, very similar to a Land Cruiser. This is as close as we get to a Land Cruiser in the United States. And this is a full J Series heavy duty Land Cruiser platform. It is number 9 on the list because we just aren't seeing aftermarket support yet. We're also it is some challenges with the ground clearance on the vehicle, particularly on the front, the approach angle.
Scott Brady:And it's also very expensive. So if you have if you want the most reliable and luxurious and actually very unique because they're almost impossible to buy and still were surprisingly capable, like the Lexus LX is kind of a wonder in its in its own right. It is also the ugliest vehicle in the list.
Matt Scott:Like, it's it's actually You
Scott Brady:think so?
Matt Scott:It's actually uglier than the front end of the Defender. I just I personally really dislike it. I don't know. The design language is obviously changing with the forthcoming GX model, which I think is one of the best looking. That's looking.
Matt Scott:Yeah. For sure. But all these little, you know, horizontal fins and I just. Yeah. I don't like it.
Scott Brady:It's a really big grille and that compromises the ability to modify the vehicle with the aftermarket. So if we're gonna take a vehicle like an LX 600, which is something you could drive around the world, it's designed to do that, but then you can't put on things like front animal strike protection, you can't install a winch easily. Some people have made some attempts, but there just really is not aftermarket. Yeah. Like, you end
Matt Scott:up with these very, like, weird kind
Scott Brady:of like rock crawler y, not sure what they're trying to be, poppers. Yeah. It's tough. And so you've got an incredible platform, but you really have some limitations around the aftermarket support of what you would need to go over landing with it. And you just spend $130 on the thing.
Scott Brady:So Like if it So absolutely phenomenal vehicle. If you want the most reliable family hauler that's, you know, luxurious and will never break down on you. But when we're talking about buying an Overland vehicle, especially comparing it to what's coming out with the new GX, the LX ends up lower on the list. Yeah, for sure. Okay.
Scott Brady:So then, above that is kind of the opposite, but same category. So extreme luxury, in the in the well, extreme signaling in the G Wagon. So, extreme signaling in the G Wagon. So, you know, there is there is definitely luxury
Matt Scott:to it. I love the G Wagon. So so number 8 is the, quite specifically the G550 g 63, actually, for this generation. So there is the w463 that was sold in the United States from early 2000 to 2018. 2019 came around, and, the vehicle was completely refreshed.
Matt Scott:It has independent front suspension, which a lot of people at the time were like, oh.
Scott Brady:Yeah. Well, if you're gonna driven
Matt Scott:a g Wagon, they have no suspension travel. That's right. So now
Scott Brady:you It wasn't a downside. Now you have
Matt Scott:a g Wagon that can boogie. You know, it actually has some flex and travel in the rear. Still has a front locker, though. Yeah. Still yeah.
Matt Scott:Triple locked. And it's, you know, from my experience, they're very well made. You know? Extremely well made. Austria by Magnus Stair.
Matt Scott:And the cool thing for
Scott Brady:And you and I have both owned Lam you know, both owned G Wagons, and we've loved them.
Matt Scott:So For 2022, you can get kind of a watered down professional pack. So you can actually get the genuine Mercedes roof rack. You can get the genuine Mercedes brush guard. Comes with a 18 inch wheel with an all terrain tire. There's a lot of advantages to the g Wagon, but they're very expensive, and there's no way around it.
Matt Scott:Like, it is the it's the 911 of off road. You know, I believe the starting price is around $135,000. But then when you
Scott Brady:And that's not with that professional pack with all the rack. I mean, I bet you the rack is $10.
Matt Scott:I think it's a $20,000 offer. Oh
Scott Brady:my gosh.
Matt Scott:But, like, here's the thing with the g Wagon, though, is they just depreciate on a on a different time scale. There's so much demand for them. And not only in the US, but a lot of the one of the things that keeps g Wagons very, desirable in the aftermarket is that they can get exported to any country in the world. You know, we lose a lot of g Wagons in the United States. After they get driven for a couple years, they'll get exported.
Matt Scott:Keeps the prices very high on them. You know, if you can find a 2019 g Wagon now so we're selling 2020 4 model years, so that's 5 years old. Yeah. They are still selling for MSRP with 40, 50000 miles on them. So it is very expensive.
Matt Scott:But when you look at that total cost of ownership and then the depreciation, like, you know, let's compare it to a Grand Cherokee, which historically just like nosedives after a couple of years. The G Wagon may be more expensive to purchase, but it may not be more expensive to own. Yeah. You know, and it's still very low.
Scott Brady:You still got to go get a loan for $130,000 at 8% interest right now. So Absolutely not.
Matt Scott:Yeah. Do not do that.
Scott Brady:Yeah. I think that I think that the G Wagon is very much worth considering if you are looking at things like an LX 600 and other similarly or a Range Rover, if you're looking at similar priced vehicles. It's really important to go drive 1. It's the longest longest I ever owned a vehicle. I owned mine for 12 years and I loved it.
Scott Brady:So there's a lot to it. I don't like the fact that the vehicle is so associated with signaling now. A 100%. That feels uncomfortable to me. And it was part of the reason why I sold my G Wagon, is I just don't want to be signaling everywhere I go.
Scott Brady:Yeah. So, but it is an exceptional vehicle, and it needs to be on the list because it still is an exceptional vehicle.
Matt Scott:You know, overseas, there's the w 464, which is the utility model. I I just wish that we got something like that. Yep. You know, it's kinda for the German car enthusiasts that's our equivalent of the 70 series in all the ways. But you're right.
Matt Scott:There's a lot of really, really, really terrible people that drive g wagons. Yeah. So you kinda have to be okay with being associated with that even though you may be buying it for different reasons.
Scott Brady:Yeah. I loved it when I got mine because nobody knew what it was. Yeah. We're we're cooking old Montero. Yeah.
Matt Scott:They never tracking all went wrong when they put the the stupid, like, LED lights below the headlights and, you know, they kinda change that with the new one, but basic Yeah. Is the way to go with the g. Totally. But this still needs to be
Scott Brady:on the list. Alright. So here's kind of a little bit of a surprise for people, but it's based on my own experience driving it. Matt's driven it as well. Number 7 is the Jeep Grand Cherokee Trailhawk 4 by e.
Scott Brady:Oh, yeah. Like,
Matt Scott:it was so surprising. So we had a Range Rover plug in hybrid at the office. Mhmm.
Scott Brady:And
Matt Scott:then we also had the Grand Cherokee Trailhawk 4 by e in the office. I immediately went for the Range Rover because, you know, Grand Cherokee is kind of, you know, like Standard. It's like standard. You know, it's it's average. It's it's it's lopping that you would expect to get as a rental car.
Matt Scott:Yeah. I did not expect it to be a better vehicle than the Range Rover. I mean, the Range Rover has little softer seats in it, you know, has more signaling and whatever. But, you know, it had better. It was just better.
Matt Scott:I think this is better made.
Scott Brady:Yeah. I mean, if when we've talked about this a little bit before, but if I was not doing the Overland thing, if I was, you know, if I just had to have a corporate job and got to get away on the weekends and drive something every single day, I would absolutely buy the Grand Cherokee 4xe because you can get 35 miles or so, 30 to 35 miles of electric only range, which usually covers your commute. But then you still have, you know, rear locking differential, center locking differential, airbags, adjustable suspension. It really performs well off road, like, shockingly good. And there's some nice aftermarket support for the model, including winch mounts and additional skid plates.
Scott Brady:And it has been the surprise car of the year for me. There's been a lot of cars I've liked in 2023 because cars are getting really good and there a lot of people are making Overland vehicles now. So our world is really wonderful at the moment. But that has been the absolute standout surprise of the year.
Matt Scott:The most underrated vehicle on this list that people just don't consider. Yeah. That's right.
Scott Brady:And it also shows how good the rest of the vehicles on this list are as we get as we get closer to 1 because the Grand Cherokee Trailhawk, it's exceptional. It's very, very good. So, yeah, I'm really, really impressed by that. And then and I like the fact that it's a plug in hybrid. I'm starting to lean towards plug in hybrid more than like my enthusiasm for electric.
Scott Brady:And it's because I've learned some things about it. I mean, you know, the content of a 4 by E, you know, it's the equivalent of making like 30 electric vehicles when it comes to battery content. And then you never have the range anxiety. So, in fact, this is a funny story. So I was driving the Trailhawk and I'm coming back to Prescott and the thing got such great gas mileage and everything.
Scott Brady:I just forgot about the fact that I needed to put gas in it. And I ran out of gas. I'm coming down to the on ramp, the off ramp, Office 17, to drive to Prescott. The car loses power, but I'm going downhill. So what happens in a Oh, it says to read them.
Scott Brady:So now the thing shut off because it ran out of gas. But I'm going downhill, so I'm re genning the whole time. I re gen all the way up to the end of the off ramp and I put it into electric mode. I'm like, this thing is never going to let me do this. It did.
Scott Brady:I put it into electric only. Warnings, you know, and I made it like the extra 300 meters to the gas station. I I just so cool.
Matt Scott:Plug in hybrids are really cool. I'm personally such a fan of electrification. I, you know, on on a previous podcast mentioned, I bought a Tesla for my my daily. And now it kind of feels like everything's going backwards from that. Like, I I They're really good.
Matt Scott:Like, I have carbureted vehicles that I work on myself. I like cars. I like gasoline. I like exceptional things.
Scott Brady:Smell like gasoline today.
Matt Scott:I smell like gasoline. And brake cleaner?
Scott Brady:Or what
Matt Scott:was it? Balancing 6 individual carbs is
Scott Brady:well, they're in banks of 3. But anyway, that's another story. For me, it's the convenience. So, yeah, my girlfriend, Tavia, has a 4 by e Wrangler. Yeah.
Scott Brady:And we plug it in at the end of the day and all of the driving around that we do in the place that she lives, we do it all on electric only. It's just And then and then if we want to drive to the sailboat and, you know, go do 200 mile trip or whatever, no big deal. It's got a tank full of gas. Anyway, so it works. It works great.
Matt Scott:So Grand Cherokee. Never did I really think that that would act like within this list of 10, that might be the one that I actually would put my money down on.
Scott Brady:I'm I'm not far behind you. I'm not far behind you. I'm not
Matt Scott:saying that it is, but it would be It
Scott Brady:would be really it would be a definite consideration for me. And it's also incredibly handsome. You know, Grand Cherokees have always been been good looking vehicles, but this, I think, is just really handsome. They're a little more upright grille. I like that.
Scott Brady:All right. So number 6 on the list is the Ford Bronco, which is, it's a vehicle that Matt loves to hate.
Matt Scott:I just I don't know why I hate the Bronco so much because it's just built like a pile of something that comes out of your body. You think so? I I think it like the chat listen. Let's I think it's the dash
Scott Brady:that's still getting you. It's just cheap plastic.
Matt Scott:It was just like I would get into it and I would just think like, they cut some money there. They cut some money there. They cut some money there. They cut some
Scott Brady:money there. They cut some money there. It reminds me of like a 2004 Tacoma. It's like the most
Matt Scott:incredibly reliable vehicle. Plastic is something that shouldn't be in a vehicle. The the driveline is phenomenal. The chassis is phenomenal. What they've been able to do with the Bronco Raptor.
Matt Scott:Yeah. I mean,
Scott Brady:it's it's it's a hoot. But, I didn't I mean, the Bronco Raptor was fun. I'm not going to take it away, but the a 3 92 Wrangler is way, way more fun. Refined vehicle. It's just it's just better.
Scott Brady:Yeah. It just like the Raptor Bronco, the fenders look like such an afterthought. And the engine isn't like as inspiring as you need it to be at that price point. And that like that segment.
Matt Scott:But it's better than the Pentastar that's in the Wrangler. But it's not
Scott Brady:better than the 392 Hemi. So like that. I mean,
Matt Scott:that's an ancient lump too.
Scott Brady:But it's a good ancient lump. It sounds so good. Yeah. But I like actually kind of that standard Wildtrak, Bronco. Just the, you know, where you get the front and rear lockers, you get the sway bar disconnect, which is the best sway bar disconnect I've ever used.
Scott Brady:It really works well. It's a performer. And it's a it's a great performer. I actually
Matt Scott:think they're really attractive looking. I like them. Like, I like them in all the colors, which
Scott Brady:I not usually attractive looking. I like them like even I like them in all the colors, which I'm not usually a big fan of a lot of the colors. I like them in all the colors. I like the, you know, they're kind of got this bluish gray color that I really like. So, I would probably build a Bronco with some color to it.
Matt Scott:And it's just that's their vibe with that car. And then they put those stupid fenders on it. And, like, as a classic car guy, like, Broncos aren't meant to have fenders. 1 Broncos aren't meant to have the cut rear fender that a lot of rednecks did. But, you know, like, if the vehicle was just a little narrower and it didn't have those fenders, I think it would look better to me.
Matt Scott:I just I can't get past it. I don't know why. That's okay. I just Yeah. I'm allowed to hate what I hate.
Matt Scott:Of course. Yeah.
Scott Brady:I mean, hate. I don't know about hate, but you're allowed to dislike what you like. Yeah. I dislike it. But I do like it.
Scott Brady:I do like the Bronco. It has in some configuration, reasonable payload. It's it's a comfortable vehicle to drive. It's more comfortable to drive than a Wrangler on the highway and on most trail conditions. So the Wrangler the Wrangler is ultimately more capable, but marginally.
Scott Brady:So
Matt Scott:Yeah. And where the Broncos, I'm gonna call it just like their packaging. I know that I hate the fenders. But by going with, you know, a wider body and a narrower fender than the Wrangler, it's just a better place to spend time in. Yeah.
Matt Scott:You know, the Wrangler does get a bit cramped after, you know, you spend a month or 2 in Baja, and then you're just kinda like, you know, like, start itching inside your skin. This is a little it's a little small.
Scott Brady:Yeah. I had my nephew in the 392 this morning, and he's like, this is really small. Yeah. It was the first comment that he made.
Matt Scott:My head will kind of hit the roll bar.
Scott Brady:Yeah. They're a little they're a little compact for sure. So I like the Bronco. Matt dislikes the Bronco. But we both agreed that it needed to be on the list because I think I give Ford a lot of credit for making it happen.
Scott Brady:They do seem to be popular. I'm seeing a lot more of them on the road. And there are some packages like, there's a lot of different options on Bronco. So a lot of reasons to like it. Yeah.
Scott Brady:And like, look at like, do the build thing on the website because there's a lot of unique solutions around that vehicle that don't make them very expensive also. So So, I think there's a lot of upside to the Bronco.
Matt Scott:I think they even have a like a sunglass holder for your white sunglasses.
Scott Brady:And they've clearance for the flat bill cap. Yeah. So, yeah, we didn't we didn't we didn't mean to go sideways on the Bronco. I feel. Yes, you did.
Scott Brady:Yes, you did. You're like, I have the opportunity. So, number 5 on the list is a newcomer. It's a model that's been around a long time, but no one ever really considered it for overlanding. And that's the Toyota Sequoia.
Scott Brady:The 1st gen Toyota Sequoia was actually pretty good for overlanding.
Matt Scott:The Sequoia has always been this silent value. Yeah, it has been Especially in the used market. Yeah. For so long it has been associated with it's a soccer mom car. Like, I don't I
Scott Brady:don't know how else to say it. Like, it was a soccer mom car. Yeah.
Matt Scott:Yeah, it was. It still is. You know, it's the trendy adventure soccer mom car now. But but it's a Land Cruiser underneath. You know, it has that same architecture.
Matt Scott:It's made in the United States. It looks, in my opinion, I think it looks better than the Land Cruiser. It looks great. Yeah. It looks good.
Matt Scott:You know, you have the TRD Pro option, which I think is is is really cool.
Scott Brady:So you get a 33 inches diameter tire. You have 5 link coil sprung rear suspension. You have a rear locking differential. You have a traditional low range transfer case. It's a little bit bigger, which I think is an advantage in North America.
Scott Brady:Yeah. And it's got Toyota reliability. It's, you know, I don't you know, I have their hybrid. Now that I know plug in hybrids, I'm like, I'm struggling with just the standard hybrid. They don't feel as advantageous to me anymore.
Scott Brady:Yeah. But but it's a really, really well built solid vehicle that I think works for a lot of families.
Matt Scott:And we're starting to see a lot of aftermarket support for it. And yeah, it's just it's it's definitely kinda in in a similar way to what we were saying about the Grand Cherokee Yeah. Sneaking up on that list.
Scott Brady:Yeah.
Matt Scott:There's all there's all these vehicles that we're talking about, and then there's the ones that are actually practical to purchase. Yeah. And this is one of those vehicles.
Scott Brady:It's it
Matt Scott:it is it it can play it can take the kids to to school. It tows the boat. It can tow the boat. It can take them to Moab. You know, it doesn't get none of these cars get great fuel economy, but it's not terrible with it with the hybrid available hybrid system.
Matt Scott:Yeah. I I think it's a it's a really great option, and it's it's kind of this underrated nameplate that Toyota has. There's been so much emphasis on 4 Runner, Land Cruiser. Yeah. And, you know, the the Sequoia has always been there.
Matt Scott:It's always had, you know, either kinda hundred based at first, and now I mean, I guess they're all kinda like global. They're all based
Scott Brady:on the same thing.
Matt Scott:Yeah. Yeah. It's really cool. And I think it's attractive, especially in the white. I really like it in the white.
Scott Brady:Super handsome. Yeah. Yeah. And I've driven them off road even in Moab, and I was impressed. Yeah.
Scott Brady:You know, and at speed, they're actually very stable. So I think for if you look at general overlanding, you're having to haul a lot of stuff. Maybe you're bringing your family with you. Maybe you're towing a trailer. Maybe you're not.
Scott Brady:You know, maybe you're doing a little bit of off road, a little bit of technical, a little bit of high speed, a lot of road miles. It's kind of a sweet spot Yeah. In a lot of the same ways that the Grand Grand Cherokee is. But the Sequoia is is worth considering now, and it had never been on our list before.
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Scott Brady:All right. Now, we're getting into the top 4. So, things are getting more and more exciting. So, number 4 is a vehicle that would not normally have ended up on the list this high. But to give Jeep a lot of credit, they continue to not just milk the Wrangler, they make the Wrangler better.
Scott Brady:Like, it just keeps getting which thank the universe that we are in 2023, almost 2024, and we are we're able to still buy a solid axle Wrangler that you can take the top off of. And it's got lockers and it's got sway bar disconnects and it's got factory winches and, you know, and you can also get it in 31 flavors. So you can go from a very reasonably priced like sub $40,000 Wrangler all the way up to $100,000 $392.
Matt Scott:And I mean, they're not quite $100,000, but The AEV upfit 20th anniversary, I think, was 120.
Scott Brady:There you go. So they've taken advantage of the full spectrum, which I actually think was a good idea for Wrangler and for Jeep. So, there's a couple key improvements that's been happening. We've lost the diesel, which is a little bit of a sad thing, but it seems like that that powertrain has been problematic. The Pentastar is not problematic.
Scott Brady:I know that they're going to this new Hurricane Strait 6, so that's going to probably be coming out here soon in the Wrangler, I would suspect.
Matt Scott:But The Pentastar is not exciting. Yeah. But it just works.
Scott Brady:It does. Like, let's go back
Matt Scott:10 years in overlanding. That is exactly what everybody sitting around the campfire would want. Because they just want that proven, reliable, easy to fix engine. They're just they just work.
Scott Brady:They they do.
Matt Scott:They have good suppliers. You know, it has a if you get the automatic transmission, it's the ZF 8 Speed. I've ranted on that. It's a the only thing that, you know, Rolls Royce and Bentley agree on is that that is a good transmission. It's just it works.
Matt Scott:There's no creaks in the thing. You can beat the crap out of it. Yeah. But there's unlimited aftermarket. You can put, like, an Ursa Minor pop top on it, which is to me, if I was to build you know, obviously, like, I I do the Earthroamer kind of thing now.
Matt Scott:But if I wanted a technical technically capable camper, it could be a Wrangler with a Ursa miner. Like, there's there's zero doubt in my mind that that is one of the best, if not the best setups. You know, one of the most traveled people we know, Dan Grech. You know, that's what he he did all of Africa in, and, they're they're really good. I just don't know how to set
Scott Brady:that up. I think Dan's been a great advocate for Wrangler for travel. He's done a good job of keeping them lighter. But like his very first trip through South America was in a soft top. TJ.
Scott Brady:TJ. Yeah. Which is awesome. And then he does Africa in a 4 door Wrangler Rubicon with a pop top on it, you know, basically circumnavigates the continent.
Matt Scott:You rolled it and then rolled it back over and then kept going. That's right. In the I think it was in the Congo.
Scott Brady:Something crazy like that. Yes, exactly. Yep. And then he did all of Australia in the in the Gladiator. And then now he's back in a Wrangler, and he cut the back half of it off, and he put this custom camper on there.
Scott Brady:It's cool.
Matt Scott:Like Yeah, it's super cool.
Scott Brady:It's really going to be neat to see how that ends up. But, you know, it's really easy around a campfire to just focus on. You can only use a Land Cruiser for this stuff. But there are people that are very credible, like Dan, that are reliably using Wranglers. And he's been clear.
Scott Brady:Like, he's had no mechanical issues with these cars.
Matt Scott:I have trying to think of how many Jeeps I've owned. I've got more Jeeps than anything else for sure. I'm not a Jeep. Like, I don't think that I'm a Jeep guy, but I just, like, always end up driving or buying Jeeps. Like, I don't know.
Matt Scott:Yeah. They're just they're capable. They're kind of fun to drive. Yeah. You know, let let's let's let's rag a little bit on the Wrangler because I was so accurate with the Bronco.
Matt Scott:It's small inside. Yeah. And, you know, they do these, like, the the rear my biggest gripe with the Wrangler for Overland travel is that the roll cage is not squared off in the back. Yeah. Because, like, terrible people put those those angled hardtops on them so they can just have less space.
Matt Scott:And it just makes it it makes things a challenge in the back. Like, it it it's kinda always in the way that
Scott Brady:Very space constrained. Yeah.
Matt Scott:Maybe a little bit of a hot topic. Do they need to ditch the removable top? I think Well,
Scott Brady:it's possible. And I think that they're playing with that idea with this new retractable top. And if I was going to buy a Wrangler and not use it for just use it for fun, I would absolutely get that retractable top. It's on the 392 right now.
Matt Scott:I haven't driven one with it.
Scott Brady:Oh, it's incredible. You push a button and the entire top, like almost to the very, very back, certainly aft of the rear passengers, it's open. Yeah. Like a convertible. Is it?
Matt Scott:I I don't know. I really like them. I think the important thing to to know about the the JL is that there's the exterior form factor, and
Scott Brady:then there is The the remaining space inside.
Matt Scott:The remaining space inside because it's, you know, it's not a normal vehicle where it would be, you know, boron steel stamped or something, and that would be your actual structure. There's then a redundant. It shouldn't I shouldn't say redundant. There is a necessary. There is a necessary and secondary structure inside of it.
Matt Scott:Like like, we're both pretty big. I mean, I I get I get cramped in that thing, and if you're tall, like, you kinda hit your head on the roll cage, which is, like, really annoying when you're, like, doing serious stuff off road. But
Scott Brady:I don't know. They've made them better Overlanders, and it's one of the few vehicles you can still get with a manual transmission Yeah. Which is also available as a 7 speed in the Bronco, but And half doors. Yeah. You can get half doors.
Scott Brady:You can get a soft top. You can make it super inexpensive if you want. It still has a solid axle 5 link, you know, coil sprung. And they've also this is the reason why it's moved up the list is they have finally addressed our concerns around payload. So, it is competitive now with a 4 Runner on payload.
Scott Brady:You can get over 14 100 so £1437 of payload is the is the kind of the highest I could see spec'd in the vehicle. But that is impressive. And you can get up to £5,000 of towing now. So and they they achieve that by making the rear axle a full float.
Matt Scott:George Marshall Which is big.
Scott Brady:Charles Marshall So, it's a big deal. It significantly improves durability and, it also just starts to address your concerns around payload. A lot of people tow trailers with Wranglers because they are space constrained inside. So the fact that you can now get a £5,000 tow rating, you have a heavier duty rear axle, you have more payload, which means that tongue weight is now because tongue weight from a trailer is part of payload. So, if you got a £500 tongue weight, you've now got, you know, £700 left for you and your family.
Scott Brady:So, Wrangler has done a lot of work around, I mean, 35% improvement in payload.
Matt Scott:That's significant.
Scott Brady:That's significant. I mean, when most companies are going the other direction. Exactly. Yeah. So that I was really impressed by that from Jeep.
Scott Brady:Yeah. They get it. Like, they really do get over landing. You know, they really do. There's people there that must care about it.
Matt Scott:They've been involved in the in the space and in the community for longer. Yeah. Than most have. They really do care about it. All right.
Scott Brady:So now we are in the top 3. And number 3 is I know right now I'm going to hear the screaming and gnashing of teeth. But number 3 is an electric only SUV. Which is awesome because they're just so much better than internal combustion,
Matt Scott:ancient, 8 track cassette tape cars.
Scott Brady:So, one of the best vehicles I've ever driven that's an SUV in my life is the Rivian R1S. It is it is handsome. It is beautifully designed. It's incredibly comfortable on the inside. It goes like a bat out of hell.
Scott Brady:I mean, it blows it blows the door off a 392 Wrangler.
Matt Scott:It blows the doors off of like a GT3. Yeah.
Scott Brady:So, it's crazy fast. They've now got some variants that have even more range. I took a lot of people focus on the range, but like for North America, I went to literally the most remote point that you can go to in the United States with the R1S. And we did over 150 miles of dirt to get there and to our next destination and, you know, a lot more miles than that to finally get to another charger. But you just can't get that remote where electric is as big as a problem as most people think it is.
Scott Brady:I think if people were to sit down and look at all the trips that they've done over the last 10 years, every single one of them can easily be satisfied, by by a Rivian
Matt Scott:or Southern Utah and the Navajo Nation is is that last remaining Yep. Chokepoint. And that was where we went. Yeah.
Scott Brady:We went and we drove right through it. We drove right through the there's a video on YouTube where we took the R1S to the most remote point in the continuous 48 states and it did it. It was like just not a big deal. Not a lot of range anxiety work. And the advantage that the EVs have off road that people are finally now learning is that they have the regen capability.
Scott Brady:So, when we climbed up to the top of 50 Mile Bench, to get to this most remote point, we used a lot of electricity to do that. You would use a lot of fuel to do that because you're going to get low fuel economy when you're climbing a steep climb. But when I turned around and I went back down those switchbacks, I got to regen the entire time. Yeah. So, I get I not only I ended up with more miles, not not overall, but then if I had just, you know, let a let a gasoline engine, you know, idle down it.
Matt Scott:I I do. Yeah. I just here's my thing about electric cars is that and I and I believe that anybody who has who owns 1 or drives 1 will will resonate with this. There's just they're just so much simpler. Right?
Matt Scott:Due to modern emissions requirements, which are overall a positive thing, the internal combustion engine is choked up, clogged, and very, very complicated. Yeah. You know, you have exhaust gas recirculation. You've got catalytic converters. You've got, you know, all
Scott Brady:these DEF or whatever. Diesels. Regen. Everything else.
Matt Scott:You have all of these, like, very complicated systems. You have all of these different sensors that can now fail to optimize the engine. You have fuel injectors. You have all of the moving comp components on the the valve train, the the drive train, the transmission, the the all of these things that just kinda go away. Yeah.
Matt Scott:And They do go away. They do go away.
Scott Brady:You have one fluid that you top off in your in your, Tesla. Yeah. The washer fluid of
Matt Scott:the windshield. Exactly.
Scott Brady:It's like there's one fluid. You know, and they're just going to get better. I mean, Toyota just announced 700 mile range, 10 minute charging. So it's just going to keep the technology is going to get there. And for us, we're not advocating for EVs.
Scott Brady:I'm just saying that I am. Well, I'm not. I'm really not advocating. I don't think that we're at the point where I want to advocate for them. I just want to say that the Rivian r one s is one of the best SUVs I've ever driven, no matter the engine.
Scott Brady:It's the only
Matt Scott:car that we've had on test that I've actually just sat down in my driveway and just, like, looked at how the suspension worked. Yeah. And you can tell that that suspension came from McLaren Engineers. That's right. It's really good.
Matt Scott:Really good. It Genuinely. It handles phenomenally. Yeah. You know, the the user interface is so great.
Matt Scott:Like, this is where the electric car companies are really winning. Self leveling
Scott Brady:and camp. You got your roof tent on the top of it or you're sleeping in the back. Push a button. Yeah. Self levels the car.
Scott Brady:It's great. The car drives beautifully. Like, genuinely. Yeah. Thank you for letting me drive my first Tesla ever.
Scott Brady:That was awesome.
Matt Scott:They're just kooky. Like, they work.
Scott Brady:Yeah. I got no hate for it at all. Okay. So now we are into the top 2. And, you know, this is interesting because the one has been around forever and the other one just arrived.
Scott Brady:So it would be it would seem like it would be like an impulse to put the Grenadier as number 1 on the list. But I don't think that it's quite there yet. And that's because even though I have a lot of affection for the vehicle, I've been driving it from Cape Town on my way up to London. The vehicle I've done 20,000 kilometers with the vehicle. I've not had a single failure.
Scott Brady:It has exceeded my expectations in most regards. No reliability issues with the vehicle.
Matt Scott:And that was a press car before. It was. And didn't it go to like Kazakhstan or something?
Scott Brady:It was it was slated to go to Mongolia, but they actually pulled it. So that way we could do the TransAfrica trip. But, you know, we've talked about this before, but we're not being paid by Grenadier to do this. They've loaned us a press vehicle, just like any other company would do that. And we're not being compensated in any way.
Scott Brady:We're paying for all the expenses of the trip on our own. And I'm free to speak clearly about the vehicle. And it is for North America, it's the only thing that we have right now that is literally made specifically to do overland travel. So it has 1800 +1 payload, triple locked, available factory winch, you know, solid axles, you know, low range transfer case, square body. We talk about the Wrangler in interior space.
Scott Brady:The Grenadier has a ton of interior space.
Matt Scott:Even though the form factor is not that different size wise.
Scott Brady:Yeah, it's very similar. Very similar wheelbase even. So, the Grenadier is it's the first time we've ever had a car company start specifically for overlanders because sir Jim Radcliffe is an overlander himself. So he wanted to build his own car. And he did.
Scott Brady:And it is really good. And but it is still too early. We have to really be always guarding our audience. And it just needs a little bit more time. I need to finish my trip with it and have my final conclusions around it.
Scott Brady:And also the number one vehicle is a serious contender still. So, it would be hard to make the argument one way or the other. You could. You could say this is number 1 or this is number 2. But there's reasons why we have a number 1.
Matt Scott:I'm really excited about the Grenadier. I have to say that I did put a deposit down on 1. I didn't follow through with it. But the reality is, is that we don't live in a in a large city.
Scott Brady:Yeah.
Matt Scott:So there's a risk to buying a a a new vehicle from a new manufacturer that doesn't have a a real established service network. I have confidence that they will sort all of those things. For sure. But the creditor to me is, I I see a lot of parallels to to Lotus. Right?
Matt Scott:Yeah. If you want to buy a very purpose built sports car we're not talking super car. We're not talking a muscle car. We're talking a car that is for the enjoyment of driving and is phenomenal on the track, phenomenal on the road. It's purpose built.
Matt Scott:Yeah. Right? There's so many parallels between Lotus and INEOS in my
Scott Brady:opinion. Interesting. I In fact, that's their tagline, built on purpose.
Matt Scott:Yeah. I I want it to do really well.
Scott Brady:Yeah. The reason why we're enthusiastic about it, the reason why we're testing it, is it's the first time we've ever had a car company made specifically for us. So we want to give them all the support that we can. We want to really understand the vehicle. We want them to be successful.
Scott Brady:Because, you know, as Overlanders, we need choice. Yeah. It shouldn't always be, you know, a Defender. It shouldn't always be a Land Cruiser.
Matt Scott:Competition is good. It is really good. You know,
Scott Brady:it's important.
Matt Scott:Think of Bronco Wrangler. I am so excited for what's coming with Yeah. The Wrangler. I know that, from talking to designers friends at Jeep, they basically said we've had the handcuffs taken off. Yeah.
Matt Scott:Because there's a lot of ways that the Bronco is better than the Wrangler, but now we have this vehicle that can be pinnacle for overlanding. Yeah. What is that gonna then do as that becomes a larger and larger market? What does that then do? Where does everybody else respond?
Matt Scott:And it's that rising tide, raise small ships concept. That's right. Yeah. I I I wish them the best. And I Yeah.
Scott Brady:That we we want them to be successful. A hydrogen one. Yeah. That's right. Like.
Scott Brady:And they're talking about battery electric. They're talking about all kinds of things. There's been press releases come out on all kinds of different ideas. And they are coming out with their Quartermaster, which is a 4 door pickup. So, a Bucky style truck that's going to be coming out here in North America soon.
Scott Brady:So, they're really working hard to make vehicles that we want. And we want them to have as much chance for success as possible. So, we're enthusiastic. I do like the vehicle. I have really enjoyed driving it.
Scott Brady:I have certainly come to love it because it's been kind of my magic carpet through Africa. So, I'm really, really grateful for that. The vehicle that's made for us specifically for overlanding, and it's number 2 on the list. So now we get to go to number 1.
Matt Scott:Yeah. So here's what I wanna say about number 1 is we talk a lot about gear. We talk a lot about trucks, but overlanding is not about light bars and all of the new crap that it has become in North America. It is about travel.
Scott Brady:That's right.
Matt Scott:So when we think of the best vehicles for overlanding, we're thinking of things that are proven. It this this choice is not exciting. Like I think it is. I think it's I think it's outdated. I think it's outdated.
Matt Scott:I think it's boring. I think Maybe it's a little boring. Yeah. It's it's just it was good when it came out. Yeah.
Matt Scott:But it's very proven. It's very, very reliable. There's a lot of support for it in the aftermarket. It's the cheapest car you can buy. It's one of the cheapest cars you can buy.
Scott Brady:Not not purchase price, but ownership.
Matt Scott:Actual cost of ownership. Cost of ownership. And the number one Overland SUV
Scott Brady:is the Toyota 4 Runner. That's right. And it's available in Trail Edition. You can get KDSS. You can get rear locking differential.
Scott Brady:It has a reasonable payload. Some models get up over £1500 of payload. So, it has a real payload. So, if you think about buying and they are still everywhere, everybody. I mean, you see a ton of them driving.
Matt Scott:They just work. They're like, you know, they're a slightly more off road Subaru for most people. Right?
Scott Brady:They have
Matt Scott:a little bit more room. That could be. You know, it's it's it's a great choice. It's very reliable. It's it's ancient in all of the good ways.
Scott Brady:Yeah. Yeah. And there's nothing about it that is like a risk, like because some vehicles get their old enough where it's like, wow, that's that's really the only real standout negative for me is the fuel economy compared to a lot of the other vehicles on the on the list. But it's almost equivalent to the Grenadier. So they're pretty much the same fuel economy.
Matt Scott:Yeah. The as I previously mentioned, the one I owned, horrible fuel economy. I mean, like, we're we're talking within, you know, like, maybe half a miles to the gallon of my Earthroamer. Yeah. That's right.
Matt Scott:Exactly. Once like, realistically, once you outfit that that vehicle.
Scott Brady:Brandon Jones: 4 runners really lend themselves to being kept as close to stock as possible. They're extremely capable in stock form for most overland travel. But they are they're ready to be of service to you daily commute. I saw that this is one of the best memes I've ever seen. Every once in a while, social media gets a win.
Scott Brady:But there was the meme said, the the 1996 to 2,001 4 Runner has been recalled because it's time for you to buy a new car. It's like it's it. They literally last forever.
Matt Scott:It's everything that you want from the Land Cruiser
Scott Brady:Yes.
Matt Scott:In a more practical, affordable package.
Scott Brady:That's right. That's
Matt Scott:right. And that's why it's number 1. Because of of anything if your focus is pure travel, of all of the vehicles that are on this list that you can recommend, you know, to loved ones, to good friends, to people you actually care about, it's probably if you recommend the 4 Runner to them We did them a solid with almost with utmost certainty, they're probably not gonna have any issues.
Scott Brady:Yeah. And they're going to be happy with it and they're going to be able to resell it for a reasonable amount of money. They can they can aftermarket upfit it to whatever mild or wild that they want it to be. Yeah.
Matt Scott:And you can make it by by that, you mean they can make it less reliable. Yeah, that's right.
Scott Brady:Yeah. You had to. There's really not a lot of reason to be modifying these 4 runners as much as we see. We see them way overdone. Yeah.
Scott Brady:And that's because I think they're trying to get away from it being boring when they need to embrace the fact that this is an incredible tool for the job of travel. Yeah. You know? And who knows how much longer it's going to be around? Will the new Land Cruiser 250, will it replace the 4 Runner?
Scott Brady:Will the 4 Runner Sunset or will
Matt Scott:it The new 250 Land Cruiser, I think, you know, it it's a mild hybrid. It's got some it's a little bit more complicated. It's a little less proven. Yeah. But that that vehicle has the potential to be number 1 on our list the next time we do this.
Scott Brady:Absolutely. And it's going to be affordable. An affordable Land Cruiser with Toyota capability and reliability. So that is our top 10 new Overland SUVs list. So, Matt, I got to ask you, though, if you were to buy 1 and it'd be your daily driver tomorrow for mostly North America travel, what would it be?
Scott Brady:G Wagon. G Wagon. G Wagon. Okay. So if you were to But
Matt Scott:it would have to be, like, really dirty and scratched.
Scott Brady:That's cool. Like, that's cool. I don't know. It would just like The tan the tan color is pretty good.
Matt Scott:Yeah. With the rack and stuff. Which is like a $17,000 casino option.
Scott Brady:Yeah, exactly.
Matt Scott:Anyway, it would it would be a G because I just like it. And I'm allowed to like what I like.
Scott Brady:Yeah. You're getting to pick right now. So Okay. So if it was for me, if it was for North America, oh, it would probably be that Rivian R1S. You know, I I if I wasn't in this industry and I was just driving to work every day, it'd be the Grand Cherokee.
Scott Brady:I really like that car. Yeah. Like, it's the most impressive car, like, car I've driven in a long time. Like, the breadth of capability is really good. I would probably, pick the Rivian R1S for North America because I really, really like it.
Matt Scott:Yeah. It's it's really, really good. Yeah. You know, I know that it doesn't exist, but they're gonna be doing an an electric g. Oh.
Matt Scott:And that just
Scott Brady:is that that's appealing to you?
Matt Scott:Getting a little a little I'm getting a little hot and bothered by the concept of that, an electric bank vault. Yeah. Anyways, I think that with any of these vehicles that we've listed.
Scott Brady:Well, we got one more question, though. Oh, okay. So if you were to pick if you were ready to leave tomorrow to drive to Ushuaia and then ship to South America, South Africa and drive up the length of Africa. Which on this list would you pick? G Wagon.
Matt Scott:Because because I want to drive it.
Scott Brady:I know. I got it. Car guy. I got it. Right.
Matt Scott:And I wouldn't have to modify it. You know, I do the professional package. Yeah. You know, it comes with a Falcon all terrain tire already, and those are good good Falcon tires. And, yeah, that that's that's personally what I would do because because there are dictators, crooks, thieves, and people stealing from your 401 k in every country on the planet.
Matt Scott:And they drive G Wagons and I could get it fixed.
Scott Brady:And they probably would move out of your way. Like, you probably wouldn't get hassled because they'd be like, Who is this guy? What Russian mobster is this guy coming up right here right now? So, I think for me, if I was to drive, pick a vehicle to go and leave and drive around the world, I would I think I would pick the Grenadier because it has really served me so well on this trip. I would want to be back in that vehicle to do all of those miles because for me, for Scott Brady, it just ticks all the box.
Scott Brady:It's got that G Wagon feel to it that I love.
Matt Scott:It's a better choice than my choice? No. It's not a better choice.
Scott Brady:It's a Scotty choice. It's which is why
Matt Scott:it's better choice. But, it's really cool to go on the Grenadier website and to build out your vehicle because you're you're kind of you can get sticker shock, but then you realize, oh, wow. Like, I I could legitimately buy this vehicle and outfit this vehicle and not have to do anything to drive around the world.
Scott Brady:Yeah. That's what and that's what I did.
Matt Scott:Battery, done. Auxiliary system, done. Roof rack, done. Winch. Done.
Matt Scott:Winch, done. Bumpers, like, everything is High
Scott Brady:capacity suspension, all of it.
Matt Scott:So you've made the right choice. I'm just so you're a better person than me.
Scott Brady:That is not true, Matt.
Matt Scott:That is So, like, I'm I'm a little bit so I would have to be a G Wagon guy.
Scott Brady:Okay. I gotcha. I gotcha. Be right up there with the dictators hanging out.
Matt Scott:Yeah. Yeah.
Scott Brady:I like it. I like it. Yeah. So the vehicle that I would drive around the world would be the Grenadier, but the vehicle I would recommend my sister drive around the world would be a 4 Runner. That's right.
Scott Brady:Exactly. So, this was fun, Matt. Thanks for taking the time. We thank you all for listening. We appreciate all of you as listeners.
Scott Brady:If you want to reach out and tell us what your number one on this list would be, even if it's not on the list at all, please reach out and let us know. We'll make sure to mention it in a in a future podcast. But you can reach Matt at Matt Explorer on Instagram. And you can reach me at Scott. A.
Scott Brady:Brady on Instagram. And I'd love to hear what your number one is and why. Not just what you would pick, but why you would pick it. Yeah. So, yeah.
Scott Brady:Well, we thank you all for listening, and we'll talk to you next time.