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For so many modern, driven women, life is about being more than one thing. We’re multidimensional—and so are our conversations. We carry multiple identities; we can be both mother and artist; both attorney and entrepreneur. Both clinician and CEO. Both humble and proud. Life for women like us is about both. About…all of the above. It’s about the “and”...
00:00.00
heymarvelous
Welcome to the an she spoke podcast today's episode is all about marketing and why if you don't love it. You might not be good at it. It's a little tough. Love hey Andy okay, well.
00:11.16
sandy
Hey Tenny I kind of like this is like jeny and sandy two point zero where we're just going to say some kind of rough things. Yeah yeah.
00:21.19
heymarvelous
Or just kind of being again who we are in slack Dms which is a little bit mean girl but not really because we do it out of love. It's a little tough love loving mean girls. Maybe yeah I mean I don't know so.
00:29.50
sandy
With love right? So we're like mean girls with love all right.
00:39.38
heymarvelous
I'll just say the idea for this specific episode came because I was watching one of my favorite youtubers while I was fooling laundry the other day and I I watch a lot of like homestead youtube you know just one of my interests and she was talking about home cooking and she was talking about how. You know if you want to have a homestead. You've got to be really comfortable in the kitchen making food from scratch and how basically a lot of people write into her and say you know I don't really love cooking and she said that's because you're not good at it. And it's really hard to love something and and want to do it if you're not good at it and she's like I'm going to show you how we cook meals from scratch and that was sort of her what her Youtube series was about but I just thought about it and I was like you know as she was talking I just felt like she could have been talking about marketing because we here so often Sandy you and i. People coming to us or writing into us and saying like I really want an online business and I really want to be successful at this. But I just I hate marketing I hate online marketing and hate marketing in general and so it's kind of the same thing. Yes.
01:47.80
sandy
Jenny pause for a second I I don't see your mic going and you don't have a green check Mark and all your little icons are great. Is it showing for you is recording. Okay, all right. That's weird. It just looks different than normal. Okay, okay, so.
01:53.79
heymarvelous
It is showing green for me.
02:04.78
sandy
I Think this is the way that I look at this and I wrote a whole email about this a while ago which was like when you decide if you have an expertise in something and you decide that you're going to create your own business or make your own business for all the wonderful Reasons. You have to recognize that you need to market your business. So Now you truly have two Jobs. You have one to be the teacher coach ah practitioner whatever you are and you have to be the marketer and if the marketer does not do the work The teacher Coach Practitioner has no.
02:41.16
heymarvelous
Has no job.
02:42.31
sandy
Work The has no job. The marketer must bring the new work to the the expert and I think people completely lose their minds. They don't think about it like that and then what and then if they try to Market. Oh I Hate marketing I hate it I wrote it and they just like don't do anything. Or they sort of piecemeal it and don't do anything well and the result is the same that there is no business coming in the door.
03:06.27
heymarvelous
Yeah, you know and when I sent this idea for a podcast to you in a Dm, you're like well we're already saying all of this like you. You basically say this all the times Andy and you say. We're going to teach you how to learn to love marketing. You're going to love marketing because it's so important because you need these two sides and for me I totally agree and for me like again, this is the whole revamped Sandy Jenny 2.0 which this is like the next step which is saying the quiet part out loud which is yeah like you have to love marketing.
03:37.10
sandy
Ah.
03:39.65
sandy
For.
03:40.12
heymarvelous
And you've got to be good at marketing and if the reason like you're so uncomfortable. The reason you're probably so uncomfortable with it is because you're not good at it yet and I just want to add the yet there because of course you're not good at it like that's healthy. You would be a very narcissistic. Lunatic person if you were like naturally born just gifted at marketing. Maybe there's exceptions to that. But like maybe there's some exceptions but but like generally you know that's not something that we're just like born knowing what to do and it's certainly not something that as women were were typically socialized in.
04:01.86
sandy
There's some exceptions to that for sure.
04:14.83
heymarvelous
So of course you're not good at it. You're not like that's why again, like this whole Ig Twitter thing like these are like the 2 polarities right? Like we go on to Twitter and we see people writing really effective Twitter threads like really effective internet marketing Twitter threads and you go on to Instagram and it's like not that. And that's just because like this is how these two groups of people were were socialized differently I think and so we're here to say you know what you can find a way to do marketing that feels good to you that feels authentic to you that is effective for you and that you can learn. Yeah, that's fun that you can learn to love.
04:46.66
sandy
Um, and is fun is fun. Yes, yes.
04:51.66
heymarvelous
Like it's available to you and and how great would life be if you could do the thing you love to do in life and support yourself doing it.
04:58.36
sandy
Right? Yes, 100% and I think that people don't even think that's an option to do it their own way. I think here's my theory is that people look at old school marketing or Don Draper type of marketing which I actually love that whole world. But. I don't think a lot of people do there's some really negative connotations around marketing and how it's done and how you should do it and I don't want to be that I don't want to do it that way. So therefore I hate it and I'm going to push and resist against it and what we're saying is there are some rules some expectations like. Hey I've got this thing you have to speak up. There are some things you have to do but can we not do it in a way that is so natural and fun to you that it it does attract the right people like that's possible.
05:46.24
heymarvelous
Um, yeah, you know okay, here's another example I thought of while I was doing the laundry. All the great ideas happened during the mundane tasks in life. I thought about this like with hair and makeup like I don't like doing my hair or makeup and I'm sure it's because I'm really bad at it and like when I go to get my hair done like when you and I are doing a photo shoot or something in Sandy or work I'm going to buy makeup and like the girl who works at the makeup counter.
06:14.74
sandy
I.
06:16.45
heymarvelous
Or guy does my makeup I like really like it and it's just I don't like hair and makeup stuff because I don't know how to do it well and so if I I'm sure if I like could effectively do my hair I would be happy doing my hair.
06:23.50
sandy
Right? right? right? That's why you listen to Trinny London and you learn all the things and then you buy all her products and then you love it like I do oh.
06:35.19
heymarvelous
Her oh my gosh I have my own girl who's in Dubai that I haven't told you about yet my own makeup girl that I'm following. Yeah, but yeah skin care and makeup girl who yeah I found her I don't no idea why any algorithm showed me this woman but maybe.
06:43.59
sandy
Whoa.
06:50.43
sandy
Oh because I'm on all the scare that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because yes I still get like hamsters and stuff on my feet So that's your all right? Um, okay so I just so this episode's going to be super short but I just ask every listener to just.
06:52.65
heymarvelous
By the grace of God I was showing this woman I started watching her stuff. Ah yeah.
07:08.90
sandy
Open their mind for half a second of what it would look like how you would feel when you open up your laptop and love the process of promoting your work because ultimately.
07:18.12
heymarvelous
Have the.
07:23.89
sandy
Your marketing is going to help people. That's the reason that all of our clients typically are in this job and the other thing I was thinking about before we got on recording is this that I So I think I believe theory here that a lot of people believe marketing is like this mass to the masses. And I think that marketing is actually a 1 to 1 sport if you will a 1 to 1 ah relationship because every email that I send I write those words I from my brain think about the the person that I'm writing to and on the other end in some inbox across the world.
07:45.29
heymarvelous
Yeah.
08:00.63
sandy
Um, somebody is reading it and they're reading my words and it's really like a 1 to 1 relationship. It's not one to the masses. Do you know what? I mean like so every 1 to 1 every person who's consuming the marketing material is by themselves in their own little head thinking. How does this.
08:00.94
heymarvelous
Are.
08:06.50
heymarvelous
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a bunch of 1 to 1 relationships. Yeah.
08:20.24
sandy
Work for me or how does this? Um, how will this help me and I think that's a I I like thinking it like that that there's someone sitting on a desk or holding their phone reading an email that I write Matt makes me really really happy.
08:30.89
heymarvelous
Yeah, yeah, I totally get that I think that's actually how it works. So I mean I Just if you are someone that just sort of like blanketly writes off marketing or business or being online with screens because they all kind of fall into the same category of complaints to me.
08:37.34
sandy
Um.
08:50.40
heymarvelous
My guess is that you're saying those things because those are things that you're less familiar with or that make you uncomfortable or that you don't understand how they work inside and that if you felt like you could be good at this and effective at this you wouldn't despise it and so I I think you know just just going back to this. My homestead youtuber who I was watching and by the way her channel is called roots in refuge. So if you're looking for a good homestead channel that's one of the ones I love um, but she talked about like you know, give yourself a year basically to ease into something like this and find things that you can like really appreciate along the way and take your time and. You know, don't go into your pantry and throw all the processed food out all at once. All this sandy you might argue about but she's basically like food's really expensive. You know like use things up and then replace them with like raw ingredients because then eventually when you start growing your food. You'll know what to do with it. Otherwise if you just go and grow food or you raise animals.
09:34.86
sandy
Nah.
09:48.10
heymarvelous
You're not going to know what the hell to do with that stuff. So I just I think that's the other thing that the mistake that people make is that they like kind of jump into something like a system or something overly technical, really fast and they don't give themselves the grace to sort of learn step by step how something works and I mean this isn't. Meant to be a book for what we do but like this is how we teach marketing right is with this very so systematic simple approach which I think is why it works for people because it's not like oh here is like this 30 lesson course on Pinterest Marketing you know it's it's like very much it like we teach people.
10:23.13
sandy
Um.
10:26.16
heymarvelous
A way to think about marketing that's simple and so I just whoever you learn marketing from or however you learn it whether it's from podcasts or from online programs or courses or from a coach or whatever I just encourage you to give yourself time like give yourself a solid period of time a few months at least to start to get comfortable. And then um, just find the things that you can win at like find the things that you can see find your early wins like find success at so maybe it means in our case, what we often recommend is is like writing a blog post every week something that you can you can. Agree to do that doesn't feel sleazy that feels simple like you like to write maybe or you like to podcast or whatever just start simple and then you can build off of it from there.
11:17.20
sandy
Um, and there are no quick wins typically an online business so you know if people are like oh no, 1 ne's reading no one's and no just keep going. You just got to hold the belief for longer and just keep doing the work. Um and keep like evaluating measuring and making decisions.
11:19.00
heymarvelous
Yeah.
11:33.35
sandy
Over time and that's you'll always win with that strategy.
11:37.80
heymarvelous
Yeah, we've said this for so many years with the people who are still in the game from when we started are all really successful like every single person I mean a lot of people have dropped out of ah of business by now you know it's been eight nine years
11:41.76
sandy
Are.
11:50.99
sandy
Um, yeah.
11:51.60
heymarvelous
But every single person that I know that kind of started in the year or 2 around where we started is like extremely successful. So the name up what happened to us like as um as one of the dude bros says and the name of the game is to stay in the game. That's it.
11:58.90
sandy
What happened to west.
12:09.17
sandy
Yeah, yeah I love it I Love it Hey I know you have a a call in very shortly. So before we go into join hustle can I Just do a listener shout out I Just as I'm sitting here I I know I know but it is. It's so good. So um.
12:10.61
heymarvelous
That's what it is.
12:17.64
heymarvelous
Yeah, do listeners. Let's do we never do that. Let's do it.
12:24.74
sandy
This listener is Priscilla C Smith and she just dmed us on Instagram which I know we said that we're off but I just go in check to make sure there's no emergencies and I found this the kindest message and she said I have just found your podcast and I've shared it with all my business friends I can't get over it.
12:39.45
heymarvelous
Oh.
12:41.51
sandy
And so I asked like what can't you like what does that mean can't get over it like what is it that you like so much and here's what she said permission to play big to get off the ig reels damn hamster wheel to take my work. Seriously I hadn't even dreamed of called what? Ah sorry. I hadn't even dreamed of calling what I produce a body of work in Quotations. It's been a challenging and freeing and literally capital letters literally changed my whole strategy isn't that amazing that's amazing I just like I'm screenshoting this and saving it forever because.
13:01.78
heymarvelous
Um.
13:07.77
heymarvelous
Ah, that's so freaking awesome. That's why we do it? sandy.
13:16.59
sandy
I don't know I just it she was writing that as we were podcasting. So thank you Priscilla and thank you for sharing it with all your business friends I love it.
13:20.60
heymarvelous
Oh that's cool. That's so cool. It's nice after you know we've been doing this since 2016 I know it's like we know you're out there. We can see downloads happening but we don't um.
13:28.82
sandy
Is anyone listening said anyway. Ah.
13:35.44
heymarvelous
We don't engage Maybe as much as we should. So thank you And if you're listening now and you want to message us or let us know what you think of the show you can always You can always do that? Um, okay, let's go into join hustle because I do have to hop off summer is rough home with all of our different travels and things so we want to keep the podcast coming out. But.
13:55.37
heymarvelous
Quick quickie episodes. Okay, so the joy I Just want to say um I discover that floret that have you seen floret before that documentary about that flower Farm Sandy Oh my God you are going to love this. It's in its second season. So.
14:04.21
sandy
No no I don't know you I don't.
14:09.68
heymarvelous
There is a farm in Washington state that so many of my friends back home have taken the online like flower cut flower garden online course from it's like a very popular online course in the like gardening world. And um I have like a couple of friends who've started like flower businesses from this online course. So anyway, it sounds amazing. But and I've I've read some of this woman's books this woman who runs the floret farm and I got them from the library and they were lovely and then I just discovered that she has a documentary series.
14:30.45
sandy
I.
14:44.37
heymarvelous
It's on I'm watching on Amazon prime. But I think it's on hpo max also and it's like this beautiful real story of someone like starting a business from nothing and she decided that flowers make the world more beautiful and she wants to spread more beauty in the world and just. Like really did not have any resources to get started and built this like very very successful giant flower farming business from the ground up. Um and it's beautiful documentary sandy you will love it. Yeah, yeah, it's I had to buy it on Amazon prime. But.
15:11.25
sandy
Cool. Okay I will look for it so Amazon. Okay, okay, cool all right? So the joy is a Twitter account that.
15:21.16
heymarvelous
It's on there or if you have Hbo Max I think it's included. Yeah.
15:30.59
sandy
Don't care if you are not on Twitter you need to get on Twitter just for this account. Um, so the gentleman's name is Klaus with an h so it's spelled khlauss so Klaus he is a big time copywriter ah for very big brands. And he's turned and recently rebranded his his Twitter um, he's recently rebranded his Twitter site god he's recently rebranded, rebranded his Twitter site and it's beautiful, but the content that he writes is like buying. A copywriting course like no joke I am saving and bookmarking every single thing that he's writing it is so good I have taken every copywriting course out there and. I love that he just kind of drips every couple of days I think he's writing these kind of thread posts every couple couple times a week if I remember correctly, there's so much value in it. So if that's the only thing that you go on Twitter for is to read Klaus. It's totally worth it.
16:38.50
heymarvelous
And just a very quick plug. You can follow the for you. Um, the like the tab that's only your followers or the people you're following on Twitter so you don't have to see the algorithm served content. So like that's the nice thing is you could just go on to Twitter pick. People you really want to follow and just go and see the feed I mean you're going to see a few ads but you're not going to see all of the the algorithm selected content if you don't want to so that's nice. Um, okay, we have to run we will see you next time. Thank you all for listening.
17:07.89
sandy
All right? Thanks! Okay, thanks bye.
17:09.92
heymarvelous
And have a beautiful week. Thanks Andy.