September 8 2025 #268 - Relays vs Switches, Lube | W3GMS Workbench

General Discussion Highlights

• Host: Mike (W3MOW) chaired the session from Sadsburyville, PA, reminding stations of repeater etiquette and encouraging participation.
• Hamfest Weekend: Multiple operators reported attending the Mullica Hill Hamfest. Rain cut down on tailgaters, but there were still good finds and plenty of camaraderie. Kutztown was flagged as the next big hamfest, with NearFest mentioned by northern operators.
• Field Activity: Several mentioned portable work, CW practice, and antenna projects. Luke (KC3SCY) is pushing 18–19 WPM in CW using vinyl training records.

Notable Operator Updates

• Luke (KC3SCY): Shared hamfest impressions and CW progress.
• Mike (W1RC): Highlighted upcoming NearFest, noting rainy fests can yield bargains.
• Ron (WA3VEE): Offloaded gear at Mullica Hill; considering bringing vintage books and test gear to Kutztown.
• Keith (KB3ILS): Excited about air variable capacitors scored at Mullica Hill; also began Winter Field Day planning with CW ops.
• Bill (KC3OOK): Acquired an HP 8558B spectrum analyzer from Ron; researching manuals and applications.
• John (KD3EE): Experimenting with packet BBSs and Winlink, comparing them to old modem days. Active in POTA and CW practice.
• Steve (KC3YSM): Suggested holding an “Antenna Clinic Day” at the Field Day site for hands-on learning with analyzers and deployment techniques. Idea was well-received, with Ron (WA3VEE) offering to lead a session in October.
• Simon (KD3BPI): Checked in late, listening with Summer; group was glad to hear from him.
• Leon (AA3LH): Brief check-in, still recovering health-wise but in good spirits.

Technical Questions

1. Cleaning & Lubricating Air Variable Capacitors (KB3ILS):
   • Asked how to clean dust, cobwebs, and oxidation.
   • Ron (WA3VEE) recommended using Caig/Hosa electronics-safe lube sparingly; oxidation usually not an issue.
   • Consensus: blow out with compressed air, avoid heavy chemicals, lube only sparingly at the bearings.
2. Relays vs Switches in Mobile Installations (KD3AIS – new Toyota Tundra):
   • Wanted to know why relays are recommended over direct switches.
   • Bob (KB3ZIM): Relays prevent overheating and handle high current safely.
   • CR (W8CRW): Warned about warranty issues with tapping modern vehicles.
   • Bill (KC3OOK): Advised consulting Harvey, the local expert; also cautioned about airbags when routing wires.
   • Wayne (KC3SQI), Steve (KC3YSM), and Ron (WA3VEE): Suggested using separate LiFePO₄ batteries for radios to avoid modern car electronics.
   • Harvey (KC3NZT) joined with a detailed explanation: relays let you use low-current dashboard wiring to safely control high-current loads located at the engine fuse block.
3. Antenna Analyzer Use & Tuning (KC3YSM):
   • Asked if the group could organize a hands-on antenna learning session.
   • Ron (WA3VEE) supported the idea and noted his RigExpert analyzers and Bird 43 meters could be demonstrated.
   • John (KD3EE) and Wayne (KC3SQI) offered to bring tunable verticals and show analyzer techniques.
   • Tentative plan: October antenna clinic at the Field Day site or tied into a breakfast meetup.

What is W3GMS Monday Night Workbench Net?

Every Monday Evening at 8pm Eastern Time, the W3GMS/R Crew get together on the repeater at 146.985Mhz and discuss technical questions and sometimes do lessons related to Ham Radio for newer Operators to learn from experienced Elmers. The Workbench was set up to be a safe place for any technical questions to get asked and good answers to be given.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Good evening and welcome to the 985 Workbench.

I am W3MOW and my name is Mike and I'm happy to be your host tonight.

I'm located in the village of Sadsburyville in beautiful Chester County, Pennsylvania.

Excuse me.

We meet here every Monday night at 8 p.m. on the W3GMS Parksburg Repeater.

The frequency is 146.985 megahertz and the PL tone is 100 hertz.

For those stations that use tone squelch on receive, the repeater uses a tone squelch of 94.8 hertz.

Newcomers are very welcome and we encourage all stations to check in.

When you get a moment, take a look at the repeater website located at www.w3gmsrepeater.com.

As it has a lot of information including technical articles, pictures of 985 users in action, and repeater etiquette and history.

Now here on the workbench, we focus on answering general amateur radio questions and discussing topics of radio theory and operation.

Additionally, we'll be asking each station to make some general comments about what you did in amateur radio in the past week.

So when you check in tonight, we ask you to indicate if you have a question.

And even if you don't have a question, we ask you to check in and give some general comments.

After all stations have checked in, we'll go into our general comments portion of the workbench using a roundtable-like forum,

kind of like what we do on Thursday nights.

After each station gives their general comments, we'll move on to stations with questions.

Then we'll listen to the station with the question.

And then once the question is heard by the group, I'll call out to the workbench for a station to get us started with the answer portion of the question.

Once the question is answered satisfactorily, we'll move on to other stations with questions.

Please remember the workbench is the time and place to ask those in-depth questions.

So please don't hesitate to ask.

Keep in mind the question portion of the workbench is a direct-to-net.

So I ask you to wait to be recognized by me, the net control station, before beginning a transmission.

And this is just to help us handle your questions efficiently and keep the net running smoothly.

However, there may be times where two stations need direct communication.

For additional questions, general statements, or just some follow-up.

So I ask you to do that if necessary and just pass it back to me, the net control station, afterwards.

We do have a few quick things to remember here on 985.

And the first one is to click, wait, then talk.

And this is just to make sure we don't miss the first few syllables of your transmission.

Also, we need you to let up on the PTT from time to time.

Something like this.

As the repeater has a three-minute timeout timer.

And finally, at the end of your transmission, turn it back over to net control.

Before we begin tonight, I'd like to thank all the stations that volunteers host for the workbench and the roundtable.

If you'd like to host either the workbench or the roundtable in the future, please reach out to one of us,

and we will gladly get you on the schedule.

Lastly, I ask you to please join Ron, WA3VEE, this Thursday at 8 p.m.

as he is hosting this week's session of the 985 Thursday Night Roundtable.

At this time, we're going to start the check-in process.

During the check-in process, there may be some longer pause on my end,

and that's just me doing some administrative actions to the check-in list.

So I will be back shortly.

We're going to begin now.

Remember to indicate if you have a question for the group.

And again, if you don't have a question, that's fine, but we ask you to check-in anyway

and give your general comments.

So we're going to start the check-in process now with digital stations only at this time.

with digital stations only, all-star echo link stations wishing to check-in to the 985 workbench.

Please call now.

This is W3MOW.

W1RC, good evening.

I have no questions, and maybe I'll have an answer, so I'll be standing by.

W1RC, Marblehead, Mass.

W8CRW, no questions.

All right.

The net acknowledges W1RC and W8CRW.

Do we have any further digital check-ins?

All-star echo link.

Please call now.

We'll give you a long pause. This is W3MOW.

All right, nothing heard. At this time, we're taking all check-ins.

All check-ins for the 985 workbench. Please call now.

Alpha 3, Victor Echo Echo, WA3, VEE, no questions.

C3SCY, Kilo Charlie 3, Sierra Charlie Yankee, no questions.

C3RFG, Jim in Malvern, no questions, Mike.

AB3ZIM, East Valley Field Township, no questions.

AB3ILS, I have a question.

AB3AP, no questions.

AC3SQI, no questions.

AC3OOK, no questions.

AC3CW, no questions.

KD3EE, Kilo Delta 3, Echo Echo.

John, no questions.

KD3AIS, Tim in Malvern with a question.

AC3CW, no questions.

KD3EE, Kilo Delta 3, Echo Echo.

Okay, very good list thus far.

Let's see if we get any more check-ins for the workbench.

I didn't really hear any doubles in there, so I think I got everyone.

You guys spaced it out pretty well.

So I'll go over the list here in a second, but we'll call out one last time here for any check-ins.

For the 985 workbench, please call now.

This is W3MOW.

Okay, nothing heard.

I'm going to run through the list as I have it, and then I will call out one last time.

I'm only going to make one administrative change, and that's going to bring Luke at the top.

So I'll run through the list as I have it.

So Luke, you're going to go first, KC3SCY.

Luke, then it's going to go to Mike, W1RC, and then CRW8CRW.

Then we have RonWA3VEE.

Then Jim, KC3RFG.

Then Bob, KB3ZIM.

Then Keith, KB3ILS with a question.

Then Mike, AB3AP.

Then Wayne, KC3SQI.

Then Bill, KC3OOK.

I'm sorry, KC3OOK.

Then Chuck, NA3CW.

John, KD3EE.

And then our current tail gunner, pending no more check-ins, is Tim, KD3AIS with a question.

Do we have any more stations looking to check into the 985 workbench?

Please call now.

This is W3MOW.

All right.

Nothing heard.

We're going to get into our general comments portion of the workbench.

So just give us some brief comments about what you did in amateur radio in the past week or whatever else you'd like to share.

If you forget the station who comes after you and you didn't write it down, that's fine.

Have no fear.

Mike is here.

Just pass it back to me and I'll get it to where it needs to go.

So we'll start off with Luke.

Good evening to you, Luke.

KC3SQI.

This is W3MOW.

This is KC3SQI.

Well, I haven't been super busy here with you,

but on Sunday we had the Ham Fest, Mollica Hill.

I think some of the vendors didn't show up as much because of the rain.

So there wasn't, of course, any tailgaters.

So there wasn't as much old stuff there.

But it was still pretty good.

So I guess not next weekend, but the weekend after that's Kutztown.

So I'll go up to that.

And I know there's tons of good stuff up there.

So otherwise I've just been laying out this 1929 TNT transmitter and power supply.

And I've been working on my CW.

I, um, Joe loaned me some CW records.

So I put those on my turntables.

And I'm about 19 words a minute, 18 words a minute.

So doing pretty good there.

Well, I'll keep it moving.

And I think it's over to W1RC.

And I guess today I'll only be in for one round.

I've still got a little bit of homework to do.

So, uh, yeah, over to W1RC.

Mr. Mike, this is KC3SC Watts.

Very good evening to everybody on the workbench.

Yeah, Luke, that's, uh, that's the way it goes with some ham fest.

Flea markets, outdoor venue, and you get rain.

We say in New England, well, it's New England.

You know, you don't like the weather.

You wait five minutes, it'll change.

But, uh, the good thing is, too, you go to some ham fest.

And, uh, if it starts to rain at the ham fest, you get some excellent deals.

Because guys want to sell the stuff and go home.

And they're out there and it's raining on their stuff.

Boy, you can use that as a bargaining tool to get some really, really good prices.

So sometimes a little rain is good at a ham fest.

But, uh, you know, it's the way it goes.

And there is a lot of good stuff out there.

It's a lot, a lot of good stuff.

Near Fest is coming up in about three weeks.

So we're all looking forward to that up here.

And we're all excited about it.

And I hope to see some of you guys from, uh, down there in PA to going up to, uh, MA.

Uh, so over to, uh, CR, uh, W8CRW to take it.

This is W1RC on the workbench.

Thanks, Mr. Mike.

And, uh, Mike, thank you for doing the net tonight.

Taking the chair.

Herding the cats.

And, Leslie, this week in ham radio was, uh, normal 985 activities.

And the highlight of the, uh, week was, uh, as Luke said, Mallika Hill.

So I was there.

And, uh, it was raining a little bit.

But there's the pavilion, so it's not too bad.

And I got to meet someone from Salem who I've been talking to on Sunday nights for a while.

And we had an eyeball cue.

So, uh, after that, we had lunch.

So it was, uh, good all around.

So with that, let's go to Ron.

WA3VEE.

W8CRW.

W8CRW and the group.

WA3VEE over here in Westchester.

Very, very good, CR.

Thank you.

And, uh, also thanks to Mike.

Uh, great to hear you, Mike, uh, for running the net tonight.

All very good.

Uh, what CR said, uh, ditto.

Um, I was at Mallika Hill yesterday selling some stuff.

Offloaded quite a bit.

I still have more to go.

I still want to decide about whether I want to get a table up at Kutztown or not.

If I do, of course, it's going to be up for Friday.

Probably for Friday only.

I'm not going to stay over.

But, uh, I do have a bunch of books.

And I got an old TRF, um, broadcast receiver.

And probably some other stuff that I probably would, would offload.

Uh, I have a vintage DIMEC sweep oscillator.

Vacuum tube.

Very rare.

I've never seen one.

It's a CR2200.

Uh, DIMEC was, uh, company that HP bought back in the 60s.

And, uh, their electronics company.

And the symbol, the DY symbol, turned upside down.

The DY symbol for DIMEC logo, uh, turned upside down.

Became the HP logo of the 60s and early 70s.

So that was interesting.

So, anyway, that's a rare piece.

Uh, I may be, uh, looking for a home for.

I'm not sure yet.

In any event, um, other than that, uh, just getting some more stuff together over here.

Uh, and, uh, doing quite well at getting some things, uh, cleared away.

There is the breakfast this Friday.

I want to remind people about that.

So, if I'm not at the breakfast, I'll be at Goodstown.

Uh, so, Jim, over to you.

Um, KC3RFG and the group, WA3VE.

Thank you, Ron, WA3VE.

This is, uh, Jim, KC3RFG here in Malvern.

Uh, thanks, Mike, uh, W3MOW for taking the chair tonight.

Uh, nothing special going on this week.

I haven't been in the shack much.

Just the normal 985 activities.

Uh, the weather's been so nice.

I've been working outside, splitting wood and some other things.

And some antenna maintenance, which needs to get done before the weather turns bad later on.

So, that's about it for me.

Uh, with that, I will send it over to Bob.

KB3ZIM from KC3RFG.

Take it away, Bob.

Thank you very much.

This is Bob, KB3ZIM, East Fallowfield Township.

Uh, no questions, as I said tonight.

Uh, just thought I'd, uh, I'd grab the opportunity to check in.

Uh, the only radio and radio stuff I've done in the last week and a half or so has been, uh, operated

mobile a few times.

I've talked to, uh, W3GMS himself.

Uh, I can't think of anyone else, but, uh, I have been out of town quite a bit.

Uh, and, uh, we've been down in, uh, Nashville, Tennessee for several days.

Um, also had some other activities going on.

Uh, I've been doing my, uh, annual announcing duties at the Red Hunt Concord Delegance car show and what have you.

So, uh, unable to, uh, go to HamFest and all those things because I had, uh, other things, uh, on my agenda.

So, anyway, there you go.

Uh, having said that, I don't want to soak up too much time here because we have at least two people I see here with questions that I, uh, jotted down when I was taking the roster.

Uh, and, uh, I'll be interested to hear them.

I'll be listening here while I'm busy at the, uh, shack slash office doing other things.

So, I hope everybody's doing well.

This week coming up looks like a beautiful week weather-wise.

So, antenna maintenance or anything like that, boy, this is now the time to do it.

Not beastly hot and sunshine and good weather.

So, uh, thanks for indulging me here.

And I'll turn it over next to, let's see, KB3ILS from KB3ZIM.

KB3ZIM of the group, KB3ILS.

Uh, good evening, everybody.

So, uh, I had a chance to go to AmFest this weekend.

That's what people have been talking about.

And it's the first time I've been there.

I didn't know what to expect.

Um, and, of course, it rained.

But it was really good to see people.

And, uh, had a chance to talk Winter Field Day with some.

So, playing for that is starting.

I caught up with Bob N2HM.

If you know Bob, he's an amazing CWO op who comes out for Winter Field Day.

He promised me he would be coming out and pounding brass on CWO for our, uh, Winter Field Day site.

So, uh, great to catch up with Luke at lunch.

I can't believe the projects Luke is working on.

Every time I talk to him, I feel like I cannot keep up and, uh, learn as much as he has.

Wonderful to see other people.

Tom, Ron, Joe, and CR.

And near the end, as the rain was coming down and lunch wasn't quite ready,

CR and I got a chance to sit under the, uh, pavilion and talk about our thoughts about local township government and our experiences.

So, a lot of fun catching with CR.

Um, biggest news.

I didn't come home with the, uh, boat anchor radio, which is good.

Don't need another one of those.

But I did get a lot of parts.

I'm trying to build some rigs and follow schematics and QRP books.

They always say, just grab a air variable capacitor or a meter or something out of the air junk box.

And mine's not that big.

So, uh, with the rain, the parts were good.

Meters were cheap.

I got some relays.

I don't know what I'll use them for, what the price was right, because they were almost free.

But the biggest, um, two things I got were some power supply boards.

I have to decide if I want to part them out and use the, uh, um, the heat sinks.

A lot of cool heat sinks on them, a lot of parts on them.

Or I want to play with them a little bit, see if I can make them work.

I don't know.

I'll worry about this winter.

But the big find was air variable capacitors.

I've always wanted to have a little collection of them to use for oscillators and projects.

So, uh, they were selling them and one guy gave me five of them for five bucks.

Uh, got a nice little collection over here from a half inch cross to an inch and a half.

Uh, got to do some work on them.

But the interesting one is one I haven't seen before.

It's one where the, uh, the bottom, the stator is asymmetrical.

And I did some research on it yesterday when I got home.

And it was because it helps you have the tuning be linear when you're building, um, your radio,

whatever you're doing, you're trying to do it.

So that'll be kind of interesting.

So I have some work to do on that.

Anyway, I had a really good time at the Ham Fest.

And the band's been acting pretty good.

I'm going to turn it over to my neighbor, Mike, AB3AP, who is also committed to coming to, uh, Winterfield Day.

KB3ILS.

KB3ILS in the group.

AB3AP.

Good evening, all.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to, uh, Winterfield Day.

Had, uh, conflicts.

And I actually cannot remember what last year's conflict was.

But, uh, I don't expect one this year.

As to my recent ham radio activities, I feel I missed out on the Ham Fest.

But, uh, I did absolutely no radio because we were down in Disney.

We met up with, uh, family friends from years back from England.

Rode roller coasters.

Enjoyed the Epcot, uh, food and wine festival.

And, uh, spent way too much money.

But, you know, every now and then that sort of thing is fun.

And, uh, my wife was in Schofield Barracks a month or so ago.

That's on Oahu, Hawaii.

And she will be sent there again in a few weeks.

And then again next month.

I think I'm going to tag along then.

And, uh, then, next, the month after that, or two months, in January, she gets sent down to Orlando yet again.

I'll tell you, the Army doesn't usually send you to such nice places.

So she's enjoying this while it lasts.

So, with all that non-ham radio update, uh, I'll send it over to Wayne, KC3SQI, AB3AP.

Thank you, Mike, AB3AP.

This is KC3SQI.

Uh, not much on the ham radio, uh, front.

Uh, did a little bit more on the, uh, antenna mast.

But, uh, I tripped on a, uh, got my foot caught under a surface root off of a tree.

And, uh, kind of goofed myself up a couple weeks ago.

So, haven't been doing much of anything.

So, with that, I'll turn it over to Bill.

KC3OOK.

This is KC3SQI.

KC3OOK.

Thanks, Wayne.

And I'm sorry to hear that your trip didn't work out well.

I know I'm joking, but it's not a joke.

Uh, hope you're able to get around soon.

And, as always, if you need any help, uh, I'm always here and I'm always retired.

So, Mike, thanks for taking it tonight.

I guess, for me, not a lot on the radio, uh, did the 985 nets.

I guess Saturday night I was net control for the Simplex net.

That was a lot of fun.

And I was, I guess, net control last night for the, uh, the, uh, Lancaster County welfare net as well.

Other than that, not a lot of activity here other than woodwork, uh, to go into the, uh, Ham Shack.

Although, um, didn't make it to, uh, Mullica Hill.

And, uh, it would have been nice to get there just to meet with the folks.

But I did pick up something from Ron that didn't get to go up to, uh, Mullica Hill.

And thank you, Ron.

I picked up a, uh, Hewlett Packard.

I think it's an 8558D, uh, spectrum analyzer from Ron.

And, Ron, I found a great, uh, reprint of the original manual from Hewlett Packard on using, uh, that model.

Uh, so I'm going to print that out.

But other than that, it's, uh, looking forward to tower work at Joe's, uh, coming up this week.

And it's really nice weather.

So we are getting close.

And, uh, with that, I turn it over to Chuck, N-A-3-C-W, KC-3-O-O-K.

Okay.

Leave it in a pause in case somebody wants to jump in.

This is N-A-3-C-W.

Good evening, one and all.

Um, I have been busier than a one-armed paper hanger, uh, for the last week.

I was, uh, not feeling well for part of it earlier.

But feeling okay now.

And, uh, getting a bunch of things done.

Trying to, um, get, uh, do some overhaul work on my little trailer.

It's been slowly rusting away for the last 17 years.

And, uh, making some progress with it.

And this is in between runs to my sister's place to deal with her needs.

Um, and more.

But, so I've done some, uh, 9-8-5 activities.

Uh, absolutely nothing on HF because I was, uh, asked to do sound for a neighboring church.

Um, they're doing an outdoor event.

And, uh, they asked our pastor if, uh, they could use our, some of our PA equipment outdoors.

So I did that and, uh, ran to Westchester in between set up and tear down.

And did some stuff for my sister.

So that's, uh, been my life at the moment.

So looking forward to, uh, as scheduled, if scheduled, uh, comes true to, uh, do some tower work, uh, with Bill and Joe on Friday.

And, uh, Ron, did I hear you, did I hear you correctly?

Did you say that the breakfast is this Friday?

The third Friday is, uh, the 19th.

Unless I got something wrong.

So, uh, where am I at?

Okay.

Over to John.

KD-3-E-E-N-A-3-C-W.

Thanks, Chuck. This is John, KD3EE in Landisville.

I tried tonight to get in with RF, but didn't quite make it, so I'm on All Star.

I keep trying every once in a while.

Even if I can do it before the net, it doesn't work during the net then.

So here we are.

I've been playing around with some packet radio stuff for Winlink and accessing BBSs.

It's like the old modem days with BBSs, though a little slower than when I started.

I start at 2400 baud usually, and this all is at 1200 baud.

I'm using my phone and BTEC HT with Bluetooth connection between it,

and that's how I'm doing packet stuff, so it's kind of fun to play around with.

I've been doing a lot of POTA and stuff, which is usually FT8,

and then I start doing some CW to see what I can do.

The new call sign is still very nice for CW.

I'm very happy with myself.

I've been learning the value of the chokes while out in the parks.

I tried to remove one because I figured I'd use the coax as a counterpoise.

Well, that brought all the RF into my computer and screwed up the touchpad and all that

every time I transmitted, so I had to put that back.

I've been chasing some CW POTA stuff from home.

That's always getting some more practice.

I saw a lot more FT8 this afternoon on 10 meters after the summer of quiet,

so I was chasing some of that.

I'm not ready to consider winter field day and the cold temps.

I hand off to KD3AIS.

Tim, this is KD3EE.

this is KD3AIS, Tim in Malvern.

I didn't do anything with regard to ham radio this week,

but I did get a new vehicle, new to me,

and that is what leads to my question,

so I will save that for question time.

back to my W3MOW.

This is KD3AIS.

Alright, very good.

KD3AIS and the workbench's W3MOW.

Great comments all around.

Glad to hear everyone is nice and busy on amateur radio and with other things.

Just goes to show, you know,

all the different aspects of ham radio that the 985 user group is in.

Before I give my comments,

let's see if there's any other check-ins for the workbench.

If you'd like to check in, like to give some general comments

and participate in the question portion of the net,

please call now.

This is W3MOW.

W3MOW, this is KC3YSM.

A little late to the party, but checking in.

OK, very good.

And was it, did you say KD3YSM?

about that, it's KiloCharlie3YankeesSierraMike.

OK, very good Steve, got to that time.

Do we have any other stations wishing to check in?

Please call now.

OK, nothing heard.

Steve, I'll let you make your comments and then just pass it back to me when you're done.

KC3YSM, this is W3MOW.

I appreciate it.

KC3YSM.

And it's been a little quiet.

Certainly been busy with things on the home front.

And tonight I'm late because I had my plumbing hat on for my son.

So kind of scrambling around a little bit.

Unfortunately, missed the ham fest.

I would have liked to have gone to that.

It would have been my first ham fest.

But things were in motion here at the house and just could not sneak away.

But I do have a question that I'll throw out when questions are ready.

And I'll turn it back to you.

W3MOW, this is KC3YSM.

All right, Steve, very good.

Thanks for checking in tonight.

And thanks for letting us know you have a question.

It looks like we have three questions on the docket tonight.

And we'll get to those in a second.

As far as my general comments, I haven't really been doing much in amateur radio per the usual.

Obviously, I'd like to change that.

But I keep saying that I'm not really making any progress.

But it's good to have it on the agenda.

I've just been busy with work and life.

And I'm also taking some college classes.

So that just takes up a little bit of time.

Let's see.

Before we move into the question portion of the workbench, I just want to say that participation is most important to us here on 985.

So we encourage all stations to make some general comments and share experiences as knowledge level.

It really doesn't matter to us here on the repeaters.

We can all learn from each other.

So I ask you to just pick up the mic and have some fun tonight.

We do have three questions on the docket.

We have one from Keith, KB3ILS, Tim, KB3AIS, and then Steve, KC3YSM.

And, of course, if anyone else has a question, just let us know.

We'll get to that as well.

So, Keith, I'm going to turn it over to you for your question.

KB3ILS, this is W3MOW.

W3MOW, KB3ILS.

Thank you very much for hosting the net.

Before I ask my question, a quick comment for KB3EE.

Very nice CW call sign.

I'm impressed.

I probably should change mine.

KB3ILS seems to be hard for people to send.

They're using a computer.

They get it.

Even though they're good ops on their paddles, sometimes they struggle to get it there.

And I think I heard you work in pilot stations on CW.

It's a great way to get experience.

I do it as many days a week as I can.

And I find out when I work two or three or four or ten pilot stations in a day, by the end of the week, I feel a lot better about my CW.

It just gets those fingers whirling.

So keep going on that.

So here's my question.

Some of you probably already know what it's going to be about.

It's going to be about these air variable capacitors that I got.

Some are nice and shiny and new.

Some have obviously been in something.

All of them I can make them rotate a little bit so they can get the plates to be moving and separating and meshing together.

But some of them can turn a little bit easier, quite a bit easier, actually.

And then some of the plates, I guess, are a little bit discolored or oxidized.

I was curious if there was any advice on how to clean these.

I've heard deoxid in the past.

But I think of that as a contact cleaner and deoxidizing things.

But I swear people also squirt it into all parts of their boat anchor radios when they want something to move easier.

So simple question.

How do you make them turn easier?

Is there some particular lube on the ends?

And then is there anything to do to the plates to make sure they're nice and squeaky clean so that you get the right capacitance?

All right. Very good, Keith. Thanks for your questions.

I do have a station that wants to get us started for Keith.

Please call now.

All right, Ron. Over to you. Good evening to you.

WA3VE, W3MOW.

W-W-W-A3VE. It's a great question, Keith.

Absolutely. It's good to see you yesterday at the HamFest.

Welcome to your Mullica Hill HamFest.

Oh, by the way, comment here as an aside to answering the question.

Chuck, thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much.

my calibration here. The breakfast is not, not this Friday. It is the following Friday. It is on

the 19th. So I'm like a week ahead. And so thanks, Chuck, for that correction. Absolutely. So no

breakfast this Friday. It's the following Friday on the 19th. That is indeed the third Friday of

the month. So appreciate that. Okay. Generally, when I have sticky things like that, there is a

electronics-friendly lube that is by the same company that makes the deoxit. And that is Keg Labs

or HOSA. I think it's HOSA. H-O-S-A. And that is one lube that you can use in there. I've

used it before. Somewhat debatable. Okay. Do you want a petroleum product? Do you want

this? Do you want that? But nonetheless, I've used that very, very sparingly. And that has

worked. As far as the plates are concerned, not sure if the oxidation has any effect, but

I'll leave that up for further debate. Back to you, Mike. W3MOW, WA3VE.

Okay. Thanks, Ron, for your commentary. Do we have any other stations for Keith? Please call.

Nothing heard. Keith, we'll send it back over to you.

Okay. That sounds good, Ron. I appreciate it. And what I'm thinking to do is some of them have a lot of dust on them, a little bit of... a couple of one-ass cobwebs on them. Probably just use the air compressor to blow it out. And then...

I'll look up. I've heard of that. Keg labs before. That's where the deoxid comes from.

I'll see what they have and got your point on using it sparingly. So I appreciate it. I'll turn it back to you, W3MOW. Thank you.

All right. Very good, Keith. Again, thanks for checking in tonight. Thanks for your question. Glad Ron was able to help you out. We'll move over to Tim with your question. KD3AIS. This is W3MOW.

This is W3MOW. This is KD3AIS. Tim and Malva. As I said, I got a new vehicle to me, a Toyota Tundra pickup. 2024, so it has a lot of electronics in it. And I've been thinking about putting a radio in there. There are blank buttons on the dash next to things for like the high beams and stuff for extra capacity.

So I just started thinking about putting a radio in there. And could I connect a wire to the switch and then connect that to the fuse box, which I can see has extra spots, thinking about it like a home.

But then I Google and I see people putting radios into their cars and saying they'll put a relay in later. And then I won't bore you with all the Googling that I did. But if I were to connect, in theory, a wire from the switch to the dash to the fuse box,

is there no relay in there? And then what is the relay? Why use a relay instead of a switch? Is it just because most people don't want to connect to the fuse box or they can't? So I think my question is, what's the difference between a relay and a switch? And why use a relay instead of a switch in a car radio installation?

KB3ZIM. All right. Very good, Tim. Thanks for your question tonight. And it looks like we have Bob to get us started. So Bob will send it over to you. KB3ZIM. This is W3MOW. Go ahead, Bob.

Bob will send it over to you. Thank you. After decades of wiring cars and doing all sorts of stuff with electricity in cars, your last quest, the last part of your question is a very simple one.

You know, if you have a switch with a switch that is going to be able to handle the current load that something would be drawing on that switch or on the wiring for that switch.

You know, if you have a switch with 20, 22 gauge wire and you're connecting it to a transceiver that is going to draw, I don't know, 20 amps or something.

I mean, that may be a little bit exaggerated, but the point is, so that's where, you know, a very low current relay coil can operate a very high current capable set of contacts in a relay.

That's the reason why. And I have had a lot of cars and have some now where I've actually direct, like, for example, headlight clusters that were going through the switch while I replaced them with high current relays.

And the brightness of the headlights and everything increased dramatically. And also the wiring didn't heat up and the switch didn't heat up anymore because the relay, secondary part of the relay, the current handling capacity of the relays handled the current much better that the headlights draw.

Headlights can draw quite a bit of current. So at least that one part of the question I can tell you based on decades of experience is that why use a relay instead of just a switch when the current draw is high enough that the contacts, the switching contacts in a relay might handle that much better and much more efficiently.

So that's the final part of your question. And that's the reason why. Back to net control.

W-8-CR-W.

All right. Very good, Bob. Thanks for your comments. And go ahead, CR. We'll send it over to you.

Well, I have a couple of thoughts on that. I would, oh boy, get my thoughts straight here. Yeah, the relay is for the current capacity. You use the relay so you can use a higher draw current appliance or whatever.

But you may just want to rethink hooking your radio directly to the vehicle. If it's a new vehicle, check with the manufacturer because I have a, it's no longer a new vehicle.

But the dealership gave me a really bad time about having a, anything connected to the vehicle's electrical system when it comes to warranty work.

So that's the consideration you might want to check into. Back to net.

All right. Thanks, CR, for your comments. Do we have any other stations with comments before we send it back over to Tim? Please call.

AC-3-0-0-K.

Mr. Bill, good evening to you. Go ahead.

Thank you, Mike.

Tim, a couple things.

There's a lot of things to consider when you're mounting the radio in your car.

One thing that I would recommend, you probably have the foremost expert on the round table here living right by you.

I would talk to Harvey.

So a lot of things to consider.

If your fuse block has a spare with sufficient capacity to handle that, you can connect your positive to that.

Some vehicles, and I'm not going to go into details because I don't completely understand it, but I know that some vehicles, like, for example, if you went right to the battery, you hooked the positive to the battery, but you hooked the negative to a chassis ground because some have sensing on them, even when the car is off.

The other thing I want to caution is, because it's a problem with my Toyota truck, there's some great spots to get in there to mount things, but you've got to get past an airbag, so be very careful when you get under that dash or start trying to route things.

So I think my number one suggestion is I'd talk to Harvey.

So back to you, Mike.

W-3-M-O-W.

K-C-3-0-K.

K-C-3-S-Q-I.

All right, Bill, thanks for your comments.

I was thinking the same thing.

Anything automotive, Harvey's good for that.

Over to you, Wayne.

Good evening to you.

K-C-3-S-Q-I.

This is W-3-M-O-W.

Okay.

Thank you, Mike.

One of the other things to consider is, are you going to use this off of the vehicle battery?

Or would you rather use it off of a lithium-ion phosphate battery that is not hooked up to all the other electronics of the car?

If you're getting noise and things like that off of the battery from the vehicle, then you might want to consider getting a lifeboat or other separate battery just for the radio.

And then, that way, you can also leave the radio on if you forget.

And you don't run down your other battery, which is another thing that you should be looking at, especially with the amount of current these radios take when they're on transmit,

is that you have a kick-out on it that turns it off before it completely drains the battery if there's something that happens to the charging circuit on the car.

So those are some other things that you should be looking at a little bit.

All right, Wayne. Thanks for your comments tonight. Sorry I got distracted by my wife. She was being silly there.

Do we have any other stations with comments for Tim before we send it back over to him? Please call.

KC3YSM.

WA3VEE. Shoehoring in here.

Very good. I like this. All right, so we'll go over to Steve first. And Steve, if you remember, just after you give your comments, you can pass it right over to Ron. If not, you can send it to me and I'll pass it over to Ron. But go ahead, Steve. Good evening to you. KC3YSM. This is W3MOW.

Okay, thank you, Mike. And I will pass it over to Ron when I'm finished. But I will echo Wayne's comments. I have a very, very simple process in the truck.

I have 150 and I've got a small LiPo 4 battery in the car. And it was as simple as mounting the radio in the back seat, running cables to the battery and a wire up to the radio, which sits in the front seat.

And it's separate from the battery under the hood. And it works fantastic. So food for thought. Very, very simple process. And it's separate from the electronics. And Ron, I'll pass it over to you. WA3VEE. This is KC3YSM.

KC3YSM and the group WA3VEE. First of all, Steve, it's great to hear you. And yes, we are long overdue for getting together. What Steve said, I've got right now four radios in my van. And I had three in my previous van. And I probably wound up with six radios. None of them are connected to the vehicle power system at all.

I've got two LiPo batteries that power everything. And the reason is because there's a lot of sensing that's going on. And again, talk to Harvey and see what he says. He's the expert on automotive. But I divorced all the stuff, all my radio stuff, power-wise, from the actual vehicle. I even have an inverter in there for 120 volts, a pure cyan inverter. So all that runs off of separate, completely separate LiPo batteries.

That's my input. That's my input. Of course, that's what I do. So just sharing that for consideration. Not recommending it or saying this is what you should do. Just saying that it's been very successful for the past, oh, I don't know. Let's see. Now 11 years I've had this kind of operation.

Back to you, Mike. And thanks again for running at W3MOW WA3VE.

All right. Very good, Ron. Thanks for your comments. And yes, absolutely. My pleasure to host tonight.

Tim, we're going to send it back to you for some follow-up here.

If you have any follow-up for any particular station, just go ahead and you can go back and forth with that station if you need to.

KD3AIS is W3MOW.

This is KD3AIS. Thank you so much to everybody on the net for all the knowledge. I thought I would come and ask this question here to hear a different perspective and also to learn something before I ask the expert, Harvey.

Harvey, I'm aware, is my neighbor, and I ran into him the other day walking the dog, and he gave me a boatload of knowledge.

And he also helped me to select and then install the NFED HalfWave that I have set up at my house.

So I will definitely check with him as the expert for sure.

But I appreciate everybody's feedback, and I will not ask any further questions here, and I'll send it back to Mike, W3MOW.

I'll send it back to you for the NZT.

I'm Ed Harvey. This is KD3AIS.

Jim, I'm sure we'll talk later, and I'll get into more of the specifics, but for the benefit of the group, I didn't hear everybody's comments.

So if I'm repeating something that somebody said, please give yourself credit.

I didn't hear all of them. I was actually changing a diaper while listening on Echo Link.

So my phone's not that loud, so I may have missed some people's comments.

But I'll just, for the benefit of the group, I'll just give a couple of reasons why the relay issue is popular.

When you run a switch that interrupts a circuit, a power circuit like that, especially a high-current power circuit, you're running larger wires.

And the connections on the backs of those switches are typically, they're blade connections.

They're okay.

But you're going to get heat, definitely going to get heat.

Even the good switches, they're going to generate heat.

The switch will be hot to the touch.

And there's additional wires that have to be jumpered on the backs of those switches from the function as they're designed.

A lot of the switches, when they're on, they want to have a little bit of a backlight and things like that.

It requires a lot more wiring than if you do it otherwise.

The reason we use a relay, Tim, is because typically high-current connections are for the engine junction box.

That's not usually inside the vehicle.

Inside the vehicle would be the body controller, and there's usually another one in the trunk.

Those fuse panels are smart fuse panels, and they typically handle 20 amps or less.

In the engine, there are higher-current fuse boxes.

So if you can imagine the relay, you're using low-current to control high-current.

But you can share powers and grounds in certain situations.

So if you were to put a relay near the engine junction box, which is on a Toyota pickup, that would be typically where your battery is.

And they'll typically use what's called a J-case fuse.

They start at 40 amps and go up from there.

They're good, strong fuses.

So if you were to have a relay in the engine compartment to control your radio, you have a power feed from the fuse box, a high-current power feed with good, thick wires.

It's going to the relay.

And then the power side of the control side of the relay, the little tiny coil that's drawing milliamps, nothing, it can also steal power from that same power line because it's very low current.

And then you're actually only running one wire from all of that mess that you've done in the engine compartment, which you're going to be in there doing anyway because you're hooking it to a large power source.

You're running one tiny little wire, 20-gauge, 22-gauge, into the vehicle, which is very easy to run.

It's not carrying current, so there's no heat.

And then that wire is going to be ran to the switch.

And then the switch, it's just going to switch ground to control that coil.

The coil always has power from its main power feed.

And you're just going to switch the ground.

Well, there's grounds all over the inside of the vehicle.

You can pick anything that's handy and convenient.

And remember, the control side is low current.

So we're not passing much current.

It can be anything, usually in the dashboard.

And so you only have one wire going from the relay that's in the engine compartment to the switch.

The other side of the switch is just grounding to anything inside the vehicle, which would usually be the frame of the dashboard.

But it's going to be right behind that switch panel where those auxiliary switches are on your vehicle.

So it's a lot simpler.

It's easier to run the wires.

It's less heat.

And instead of having multiple connections that are controlling the voltage supply to your radio, that side of the radio is pretty much permanent.

And you're just messing with the control side of the relay inside the vehicle.

So that's all I wanted to explain about the relay thing.

I didn't know if that had gone into.

There's lots of ways you can do this, like Ron.

And I think CR said they run separate batteries.

You can.

But it's also very easy to use the vehicle itself.

I just wanted to explain why people say they're going to put a relay in later.

Anyone that's done auxiliary stuff will find out that the heat, the connections, it's just more reliable when you're dealing with low current versus high current.

Back over to net.

This is KC3 NZT.

Okay.

Very good, Harvey.

Great explanation, Aaron.

Thanks for popping in at the end and helping us with this question.

Very much appreciated.

We'll send it over to Tim if you have any follow-up there from Harvey.

And I know you guys said you could follow up later, but feel free to follow up here.

So, you know, we can all hear what you have to say.

KD3AIS, this is W3MOW.

Sorry if I doubled with you there, Mike.

Thank you for running the net.

I think we have a follow-up.

I think we doubled there.

I just wanted to see if you had any follow-up for Harvey.

I'm glad that he added all that to the group.

Thank you.

Back to W3MOW.

All right.

Very good.

Well, thank you, Tim, for checking into the net.

Thanks for your question.

I also appreciate all the stations coming in to assist with that one.

It's great to hear everyone's comments for the mobile install.

We'll move over to Steve.

Good evening to you.

KC3YSM.

This is W3MOW.

Thank you, Mike. W3MOWKC3YSM. And a question for the night. I don't know if it's a question, a suggestion, or even maybe an ask.

So I haven't done a whole lot on ham radio, but I have dabbled a bit in HF, and it seems like I'm not getting out like I was before, which brings me to antennas.

And is it my antenna? Do I need to have an antenna analyzer on it? I don't have an antenna analyzer.

And I guess the question I have, or the ask I have, is, you know, we had a great coax connector tech at the field day site.

And would it be feasible, and I know everybody's busy, Ron, you're like a, I think, Chuck, you said you're a one-armed paper hanger.

My dad used to say that all the time. But, you know, would it be fun to have an antenna day or half day at the field day site?

People bringing their antennas, talking about how to use the antenna analyzer, you know, what makes it tick.

You know, I've got a 17-whip chameleon that I'd like to get fine-tuned.

And I've read and read and read, but there's nothing like being in the field and having someone show you really, okay, let's get on 20 meters, 40 meters.

Let's, let's, this is how we do it. I think it'd be fun. And I guess it's a suggestion and open for feedback.

I know we've got many experts on this call tonight and on other nets. And I just want to throw that out there to everybody.

Back to you. This is KC3YSM, Mike, W3MOW.

Okay, very good, Stevie. I totally understand where you're coming from there. I'm very much a visual learner myself. So I'm not very good at reading and comprehending. I need to see it visually.

And I'm sure we have some folks who could help you out there. So I don't really know, were you looking forward to try to set something up or were you just saying, you know, maybe at the next field day or winter field day to have like a little antenna clinic?

Or did you want to talk about something specific you have going on right now? Back to you.

KC3YSM. I guess I was thinking more of a clinic like a tech. I don't want to, I don't want to interrupt winter field day. I think it'd be fun to get a bunch of guys out there and everybody could bring a different antenna. There's, there's so many different iterations on throwing antenna up. Chuck, I know you're a wizard.

or a run the same way.

Okay, how do you throw a wire up in a tree?

How do I get my 17-whip antenna to be tuned?

There's a lot of different homebrews and so forth.

It'd be fun to learn about it, and I can read all day long,

but there's nothing like going out in the field and saying,

okay, well, here's a 17-whip.

We can get on here, here, and here.

Let's use the antenna analyzer.

Okay, here's how we throw a wire up in a tree,

and this is what we're doing, blah, blah, blah.

Back to you, Mike, W3MOWKC3YSM.

Okay, now I understand you, Steve.

Yeah, so that sounds like a really good thing to do,

and I'm sure we'll have plenty of interest.

The only thing is I just don't know where to go from here,

so I don't know.

I'll send it out to someone on the workbench to answer,

is this something.

I know there are certain stations handling certain events on the 985 spectrum,

and I don't know who that person is off the top of my head.

I don't know if this is something we can have Joe send out to the group

or have Joe organize,

but if anyone knows what we can do to maybe try to set something like this up

where we do a little antenna-type clinic, feel free to chime in,

and maybe we can kind of push this up and see where it goes.

This is W3MOW.

W-A-3-V-E-E.

Go ahead, Ron.

W-A-3-V-E-E.

Steve, excellent idea.

Just excellent idea.

A couple different things, comments on what you said there.

First of all, the bands have been up and down,

so one thing you may want to do,

and I'm sure you're doing this already,

and this is for everybody, actually.

That's what I do over here is you turn around on the bands,

and you find out that things sound relatively dead.

First of all, take a look at the solar weather.

I'll be doing a presentation on this at Pottstown in October.

Take a look at what the band conditions are to begin with.

We've had a few, a little hint.

Try to tune in on the workbench,

or rather the roundtable on Thursday night.

That's all I'll say about that right now.

I'll be hosting, so this might be a little pertinent to that session

we're going to have this Thursday.

Take a look and see if the band's actually open to begin with.

That's the first thing.

And there's a bunch of sites out there like DX Maps, DX Heat,

DX Summit for spotting stations.

See what's being spotted and by whom,

and that will give you some idea.

Also, if you just Google HF Propagation Maps,

that's the first thing.

Find out if the band is open.

Take a look at your SWR meter on your, in your case, Steve,

your 991.

Take a look and see if, see what your SWR looks like,

especially when you do your auto-tune.

So that's another indication as well.

So I'm pretty sure your antenna is still up.

It should be up.

We pulled pretty hard on those end ropes over there.

So it should be up in the trees back there.

So take a look at that.

And also, one other thought.

Hold on.

A clinic would be very good because there's more than one type of,

obviously more than one type of way of looking,

one type of method for looking at whether or not an antenna is working.

And that includes antenna analyzers, like I've got an AA3000, an AA600,

those kinds of things from RIGXpert.

That's one thing.

What kind of signal they put out.

There's MFJ types.

There's, of course, the commercial standard, and that is the BIRD43.

So that needs a signal source, like a transceiver.

So using each and knowing how to use each of those is pretty valuable.

And also with the antenna stuff as well, how to put an antenna up.

But especially with the antenna analyzers, very important piece of test equipment.

And I'm not familiar at all with the nano VNAs.

I do have one.

Just never got a chance to use it.

That's another method.

But usually it depends upon my antenna analyzer.

And right here in the shack on HF, right in line are two BIRD43s,

one before an amplifier, one after.

Those I rely on consistently as the standards for measuring power as well as antenna connectivity.

Mike, back to you.

W3MO.

Before I do turn it back, probably I wouldn't,

I don't know if we need to organize this formally as an event or anything,

but I'd be willing to go up some Saturday, probably in early October,

up to the Field Day site and meet people up there and at least show my part of it.

W3MOW.

W-A-3-V-E-E.

Okay, very good, Ron.

Yeah, that sounds good to me.

Steve, do you have anything else there?

Or before that, do we have anybody else for comments for Steve regarding that?

If you do, please call.

I have a whole browser window dedicated to ham radio stuff, so I've got tabs open.

All the recommendations that Ron gave, like looking for those propagation maps, the maximum usable frequency, the MUF,

look for that sort of thing.

Those maps, I refer to those all the time.

Like just today, that's how I recognize that 10 meters might be more open than it had been before

because it gives you those frequencies that are working.

But yeah, look around for those resources.

We can share more of them in person.

If you're coming to the lunch, not this week, or no, sorry, the breakfast, not this week, but next week,

I'd be happy to bring a few things along and play around in the parking lot with you.

I'm sure others might play along if you don't want to wait too long, and it's closer for some of us.

That's all.

Yeah, I'm trying to think what else.

Also, QRZ has a colorful little square that gives you band openings.

So yeah, watch those sorts of things for just solar events because those are closed-down bands.

There was news September 1st.

There was some news that there was a closing for a little bit.

So yeah, it might not be your antenna.

Back to you, KD3E.

All right, John, thanks for your comment there.

Yeah, great techniques all around there.

Yeah, sometimes you might think it's your station, but really it's the science going on in the atmosphere

that's making your station not do as well as it seemed.

Let's see.

Do we have any further comments there for Steve?

If you do, please call.

Sorry, nothing heard there.

So it sounds like we got some plans in place for sure.

Maybe doing some antenna stuff at the next breakfast and, you know, whatever.

I'm sure we could set some up outside of the field days because they are pretty busy.

I think that's good on there.

I'll send it back to you, Steve, if you have anything else.

KC3Y7, this is W3MOW.

W3MOW, thank you, Mike.

And thank you, everybody, for your feedback.

I do use DX heat, and I am on QRZ, and we'll look at some things.

It's probably propagation, but I still would like to learn more and pick everybody's brain about, you know, antennas.

I know there's a lot of information on this line right now, and it's just getting it out of everybody, getting it out of you also.

I mean, I think it would be fun to have an antenna session just like we did the COAC session.

It's certainly we've got the field day site.

It doesn't have to be on field day winter or summer, obviously, but fun time to go up there.

People can bring their antennas.

I don't have an antenna analyzer, and you can spend $200.

You can spend $1,500, and I know, Ron, you've got all those lab-grade rig experts.

But, you know, do I really need that?

And I don't mind spending some money on an antenna analyzer, but, you know, what do I really need?

It gets overwhelming to look at all the information.

And believe me, I've looked and looked and looked, and I've done a lot of things on antennas.

But there's nothing like being in the field and having a bunch of you old salty dogs saying, this is what you've got to do, Steve.

So, anyhow, I appreciate it, everybody.

Thank you very much.

I'll throw it back to you.

Mike W3MOWKC3YSM.

Yeah, very good, Steve.

Thanks for checking in tonight.

Thanks for your question and your suggestion on the clinic there.

Hopefully, in some way, shape, or form, it gains some traction in the future.

And everyone can have a nice day learning about antennas.

With that being said, do we have any further questions from anyone who checked in tonight?

If you do, please call.

Go ahead, Wayne.

Okay.

Ron, when you, if you're going to do something like that, I just got a, one of the verticals with a tunable.

Base coil.

And so, I would be more than willing to loan that to you because that would be a very good, easy thing to be able to, you know, use that to show what happens with the antenna and how to tune it.

So, just, just let me know if you need it.

KC3SQI.

Wayne, thank you so very much.

I don't know what your schedule's like next.

Well, I'm not sure I'm going to be at the next breakfast.

Yeah, we'll coordinate offline.

Thank, and that's, we'll leave it at that.

Thanks very much.

I probably will take you up on the offer and we could probably meet up somewhere.

I don't want to tie the rest of the net up here.

But, yeah, we'll coordinate.

Thanks so much for the offer.

Back to you, Mike.

W3MOW, WA3, VEE.

Absolutely, Ron.

Thanks for coming back there with Wayne.

So, I don't think we had any further questions.

Let's see.

Before we close down the net and go for more check-ins because I'd like to see if we can get anyone listening out there to check-in as well.

Before I do that, do we have any, does any station who checked in tonight have any comments for the good of the group?

If you do, please call now.

All right, nothing heard, and then this is the last call for check-ins to get on the W3MOW 985 workbench check-in list for September 8, 2025.

If you'd like to get on the list and you were listening out on the side there, I'd love to have you on it.

Give us a call, W3MOW.

I'd love you.

This is Alpha Alpha 3, Lima Hotel.

They didn't really run radio, spent a lot of time in the hospital with the doctors at A308.

This is KD3BPI.

I've been listening.

I was just too late to check-in, but good conversation.

Okay, very good.

I got Leon AA3LH.

Glad to hear you, Leon.

You're sounding very good, and I hope you're feeling better.

Then the station after, Leon, I didn't quite get it.

You were a little bit lower there, so I had to turn my volume just up a little bit.

Can you come back with your call one more time, please?

Certainly.

This is Simon, KD3BPI.

Back to you, W3MRN.

Very good, Simon.

Got you in the log that time.

Do we have any other stations wishing to check-in?

Please call.

All right.

Nothing heard.

So this is going to conclude.

We're going to conclude the workbench at this time.

I just want to thank all the stations for checking in tonight.

We had a really, really good general comments portion and a really good question portion.

A lot of the stations contributed.

It was great to hear everyone kind of work through the questions together and definitely learned a lot tonight on my end as well.

Also, a big thank you to Joe, W3GMS, for allowing us to use the repeater for the workbench.

Please remember to join us again this Thursday at 8 p.m. for the 985 roundtable, as Ron will be hosting WA3VE at 8 p.m.

Let's see.

What else here?

And also, yeah, Joe likes to have the repeater in use.

So even though the workbench is closing down for the evening, feel free to use the repeater afterward to continue the dialogue or for further questioning or, you know, just normal amateur use to run up the electric bill.

That would be great.

Joe appreciates that.

So that's it for me tonight.

Again, glad to be your host for the workbench.

I did hear from Jim.

He emailed me a reminder to host the workbench tonight, and he did say he may be in here at the tail end of it, but I know he has his various clubs and stuff like that happening on Monday night.

So, Jim, if you're out there listening, sorry we missed you tonight.

I was hoping to hear you.

But that's it for me.

I hope everyone has a great week ahead.

It's going to be a beautiful week. I hope everyone enjoys it and gets ready for the fall weather coming up here soon.

7-3 for now, and good night. This is W3MOW, now clear for the evening.

7-3-L.

8-3-L.

8-3-L.

You must have priced it too high. Do you have it more than a dollar?

It's zero. And I said, I'll take any kind of currency, wet or dry.

Isn't that interesting? Well, throw it in the trash can. I have people do that to me.

Here, I got some stuff for you, and I look at it. Oh, you're just dumping it here. It's going to be in your trash.

But that's great, Ron. Well, I hope you had a good time.

I wanted to let you know, I was looking online, and I lost it. I just found it again.

I tried searching for manuals for the HP, or the spectrum analyzer, the 55B.

Couldn't find much, and I actually just searched to fuel a packer themselves, and I came up with something called the HP Memory Project. Are you familiar with that?

Thank you, Ron.

Ah, you discovered the gold mine. Yes. The HP Memory Project, indeed. There is phenomenal, phenomenal stuff on that particular site.

And I'm going to look right now here and see if I can dig up a manual.

Also, you may want to try Keysight, K-E-Y-S-I-G-H-T. I think I told you the history there.

It might have been Simon I was telling the history to, and Simon, if you're listening, I'm not ignoring you for sure.

Great to see you and Simon yesterday at Mullica Hill. What a lovely lady you have there, indeed.

So we'll continue that one in the future here real soon.

But let me see what I can find.

Is that, I don't remember, and I don't have the pictures in front of me right now.

I could pull them up on Smuggy Mug.

But is that an HP 8558? Is that the nameplate designation on that spectrum analyzer?

If not, please correct it.

WA3VEE, KC3O, okay. Yeah, it's 8558B, bravo.

And I'm using Edge. Well, I guess right now it says I'm on Bing, whatever that is, Microsoft, I guess.

I typed using the HP 855B.

And it brought me up to, there's two sites, HP MemoryProject.org and QSI.net.

And they both brought the same one up.

And I did load the manual off the Keysight, which is the original manual, but the copy's a little rough.

But this one is actually using it.

It's written by HP, and it's spectrum analysis using the 8558B spectrum analyzer.

So it's really good, Ron.

Back to you.

Just left a little bit of a pause there.

Well, that's probably an application note.

Having been a writer for HP for six of my 40 years with them and Agilent, I will say we had a tremendous group,

an applications group in each of the divisions, in each of the disciplines, in test and measurement, analytical, medical, semiconductor test, you name it,

that just did that.

They took the products and they wrote application notes.

There is one, there's a whole bunch of those application notes, which are just written tremendously.

There's tremendous information in those.

And another one is basic spectrum analysis that goes along with that.

I'm looking here also, and I do see some, yeah, it looks like the application note number 543, 44, 46, 44.

On Google, I Googled HP 8558B spectrum analyzer.

And, yep, HP memory project comes up first.

And then all these application notes come up.

So, yep, you're on the right track.

I'll see if I can dig up a manual somewhere for that.

I think I told you the story.

I saw a product that I really wanted to get a hold of.

I don't even remember what it is now.

But anyway, I did get it.

It was a fellow from Whiskey 3 India Charlie Charlie, W3 Interstate Commerce Commission,

who was at Valley Forge a couple years ago.

And I stupidly did not buy it there from him at the Hemp Fest.

But I did find him via some search engines the following Monday.

And so I looked him up, and he was up in Bucks County.

I drove up there, and he had this and a few other pieces of equipment in addition to what I wanted.

And so he actually gave me that spectrum analyzer.

That's why the price was right on that one for you.

And in any event, he didn't have the documentation.

But remission actually finding the documentation at the time, but I'll see what I could do.

KC3OOKWA3VEE.

We'll leave a little pause there.

W-A-3-V-E-E-E-K-C-3-O-O-K.

Well, thanks, Ron.

If you have it, that's great.

I looked on mine.

Like I said, I downloaded one, so I'm not going to print that out.

But I'll have it on the computer, and I am not going to pay.

They're on there for like $39.

I guess they could ask anything on eBay.

But I also noticed there's, you know, like Agilent Group.

I typed it.

I was surprised how much I found on it.

And it sounds like people are still using them, so they still work, I guess, if everything's up to snuff.

But I connected it to calibrate the way you had it and turned it on.

And I'm wondering just if more it gets used.

And like you said, when I do get it apart, and I'll talk to you before I do that, and just blow it out and clean things out, it seems like it works.

But for what little I've seen so far.

Back to you, Ron.

W-A-3-V-E-E-K-C-3-O-O-K.

CQDX.

CQDX.

AF3Z.

Country of Lancaster.

I don't know if I have that one in my logbook.

It's probably number 352 in the DXCC list.

AF3Z.

And the group.

W-A-3-V-E-E.

Good evening from way out.

Are you in the same time zone out there in the west, Jim?

Go ahead.

Yeah, we are.

But most of us, we just judge the season by the tumbleweed.

And just gone through a little tunnel here on Greenfield Road.

Just got out of the photography club meeting and the afterglow yakking and stuff.

So good evening.

I didn't want to interrupt you, but I wanted to say hi and interrupt you anyway.

And it sounds like you've got something interesting going on there, Bill.

So over to you, Ron.

AF3 is it.

Very good, Jim.

Great to have you in here this evening.

Good evening.

And all very good.

I did a nice trade with Bill.

I gave him, we traded, he gave me his tail twister rotor, which I'm actually going to use up in the attic.

And I traded that for an HP spectrum analyzer.

So, and I've got several over here.

So this one just needs a little TLC.

As he's indicating, it needs a really good cleaning inside.

And a little bit of, it needs a good deoxid bath.

And I think he's going to have a really good win there.

I took out the module on the bottom, which is the actual spectrum analyzer.

Has a scope on top of the vintage of when I started as a technician at HP.

That goes way back to like 72, 73.

And the spectrum analyzer is the plug-in module on the bottom.

And, Bill, I did find a manual, and I'll send it over to you here.

I hope this works, because it looks like it's saving it as a GIMP file.

So I'm not sure if that's going to work or not.

But let's see.

In any event, it's pretty clean.

So that's what we're talking about here.

So over to you, Bill, KC3OOK and the group WA3VEE.

WA3VEE, KC3OOK and the group.

Well, good evening, Jim.

And I don't know how interesting it is, only to hams, maybe.

But, yeah, Rod, I appreciate that.

There's plenty to learn.

I have to have fun to do all the reading and learning.

But we will get there.

We will get there.

And I'll just say, Jim, it's good to hear you tonight.

And I'm happy to change the subject.

I heard you say, I think you're mobile on your way home, but I am not sure.

So over to you.

Wow, I have drawn a complete flight.

AS reset, KC3OOK.

All right.

Was there somebody else in there?

I heard something.

It might have been local, but when Bill started, was there somebody else trying to call in?

Oh, it's just Simon, KT3BPI.

Enjoying your conversation.

Hey, Simon.

Don't say it was just Simon.

Say, it's Simon.

I'm glad to be here.

There you go.

I'll give it to you in a minute.

Yeah, I am mobile.

The fact that you weren't sure says it was a halfway decent signal, so that's good.

I was on the end of Lancaster near, oh, Thaddeus Steven College of Technology and that end of things, a little farther out.

So, yeah, it sounds like fun.

And you're right.

Some of these interesting things aren't interesting to everybody.

But I find any piece of equipment that you get an old piece of equipment, it seems to come to life.

That's always interesting.

Over to you, Simon.

I forget now.

I forget now.

Is it KC?

No, KD3BPI, I think.

AF3Z.

AF3Z, KD3BPI.

Thank you for the opportunity to cut in.

I am right there with you on getting, you know, you get old stuff online and see it work.

I had a, for a while, I had a 1983 F250 diesel that I got from, I don't remember where it was from originally.

I bought it out of Havre de Grace, Maryland.

And, man, that diesel engine, it was a little bit of a bear to get it working.

But once it did, it was great.

And in an F250, it got about 18 miles a gallon with that engine.

Until the engine blew up.

And then there it was.

But the process of, um, getting it running was pretty cool.

Pretty cool indeed.

But, um, yeah.

Yeah, I guess, um, let's see.

I'll pass it to Vaughn.

What's the harm?

No harm there.

This is KD3BPI in the group.

And I'll pass it to WA3VE.

Hey, Simon, KD3BPI in the group, WA3VE.

Uh, yeah, all very good.

Yeah, deviation's a little low on that rig.

So, you and I need to get together.

And we need to get a complete system check out of what you got going on over there.

Uh, especially from, um, from the mobile side.

We've been saying that.

It's been very busy.

And you've been busy.

And, uh, you and Summer have been busy.

And I've been busy.

So, but it was really great to meet her yesterday.

So, I definitely want to, want to have a lot more conversation with both you guys.

No question about it.

And like I said, I hope she wasn't driven off by all us old guys, uh, playing with radio

and all the squeaks and squawks that we do and stuff like that.

And so, and like I was joking with her, I hope to see a set of calls signs after her name sooner or later as well, for sure.

And, uh, Bill, take a look at your inbox because I have a fairly, fairly pristine and clean manual in there now.

Um, I find Google to be probably the best search engine, in my opinion, in my opinion, anyway.

Uh, I know a lot of people have political issues with Google, but it's still the best search engine I've found out there.

So, uh, that's where I found this.

And HP Memory Project.

Boy, that is a wealth, wealth of information.

And not only that, but I have all kinds of cross-references for chips that we used in design that we had rebranded with our part numbers,

rather than the actual generic number of the chip and all that kind of stuff.

It's great for, for geeks like me who have a bench and actually work on some of this stuff.

So, uh, take a look at your inbox and you'll find your, that'd be right now, obviously.

But when you get to it, you'll find a manual in there and see if that's what you're looking for.

It's the manual for the plug-in part.

It's only the spectrum analyzer.

It's on the bottom because the scope, the scope on the top is pretty standard scope.

So, that's kind of what we have.

Let me turn it over to you.

And I think Jim is next in the rotation.

Uh, KC3OOK in a group, WA3VE.

That little pause there.

Wasn't sure if somebody else was there.

Uh, 383VE, KC3OOK in the group.

And good evening, Simon.

Good evening.

And, uh, yeah, Ron, I've already got it.

It's already downloaded.

So, thank you.

I appreciate that.

And, yeah, you know, it's funny.

I have, uh, both Edge and Google.

And, uh, I find sometimes you've got to use one or another.

Especially when you've seen something and you can't find it again.

That's the most frustrating part.

But, uh, Simon, I used to have an old, I'm not sure if it was an 83.

I think it was a little newer than that.

But I had a, uh, a 80s, uh, F350 with the, uh, international diesel in it.

And that thing just ran forever with tons of power.

I missed that truck.

I missed that truck.

But, uh, I don't have too much here.

Uh, and I've been talking a long while, dominating the conversation.

So, I'll turn it over to Jim.

Uh, AF3Z.

Remember your call sign now, Jim.

KC3OOK.

All right.

AF3Z.

And don't worry about that, Bill.

When I'm with somebody else who can't remember things, that always makes me feel better.

Ha, ha.

So, your pain is my pleasure, I guess.

Uh, I'm on 283 here.

Just went by Landisville exit, I think.

Not too far from Mount Choi at this point.

So, this may be my last.

Uh, but, yeah, I was, oh, I was on CW this morning with my friend up here.

And we got to talking about projects we have to do, you know.

Oh, so many projects.

Just not talking about the ones I have to do, like the yard and stuff like that.

But the ham radio things I have stacked up that I want to work on.

I was asking about the astronaut supply last Monday night.

I want to get that cracked open.

A while back, I was asking about an audio oscillator that was acting like a siren.

And I haven't pulled that one apart yet.

Ha, ha.

And a few others to get to.

But, anyway, it's fun.

When winter comes, I'm sure I'll get to it, right?

Don't be so sure.

I just gotta start making time for some of this stuff.

So, anyway, I'm not sure what else to talk about.

So, I think I will back out of here.

I'm not too long before I get off.

And then I do get scratchier, scratchier anyway.

But good to hear you both.

Or you three now.

And, uh, sorry I missed the workbench tonight.

But we had a good meeting.

So, that was good.

Uh, KD3BPI.

Is that like blood pressure indicator?

Uh, KD3BPI.

I'm not sure.

I was thinking of APR.

That's Haxton.

APR.

Anyway.

I think it's KD3BPI.

Over to you, Simon.

3Z and 73, everybody.

Thank you, Jim.

And 73 to you as well.

I'm gonna have to remember that.

Blood pressure indicator.

Ha, ha, ha.

I like it.

Though, Ron's Brass Pounders International

is also quite good.

Though the International kind of,

you know, that's like long.

It's a long word to say on the air.

Ha, ha.

Blood pressure indicator.

I'll remember that.

But, um, uh, but anyway.

Uh, yeah, Bill.

Um, I, uh, the F250 I had.

I love to talk about it.

So, um, you know, if you're ever curious about it.

I'm also curious about yours.

The International Diesel.

Uh, mine had the 6.9 liter IDI,

I believe it was called.

And, um, it had the mechanical

Standardine rotary injection pump,

which ran very well.

Um, temperamental,

and not much power.

At least mine didn't have much power,

except in first gear.

In first gear, you can pull a house down.

But, um, you know,

I was going up a hill

nearby Harper's Ferry once,

and, um,

I had to go down from fourth to third,

which was a massive jump.

You had to rev the thing to the moon

to go from fourth at 55 to third at 55,

and, uh, leave a cloud of smoke, of course.

Um, but I think that might have also been,

the rear end was a very tall ratio,

3.07, if I remember correctly.

Um, and then it had the T19 four-speed.

But, um, great truck, great truck.

And then the engine blew up,

and I put in a 1993 international diesel.

The last year they did the IDI.

Um, and that,

that was a big job,

swapping that engine out.

Big old boot anchor of an engine.

1200 pounds dry,

if I remember right.

But it ran great.

And the turbocharger had an itty-bitty turbo,

and, uh, that helped it out significantly.

And I sold it down the road.

Didn't need it anymore,

but I do miss it every day.

Maybe not every day.

I miss it when I need to move things.

And then about half the time otherwise,

to be perfectly honest.

But, um, yeah.

All right, I'll pass it back to Ron.

Yes, and Ron, yeah,

we'll definitely have to get together sometime.

We're making, making time here.

Uh, once the beach season goes by,

our weekends are a little more open.

Um, we like to go over to the Jersey Shore.

Um, Summer's grandma has a place that she keeps there.

And, uh, so, makes it very simple.

Very simple.

And I am talking on my new antenna, my comet.

Little comment.

But anyway, I'm about to time out.

So, over to you, Ron.

W-A-3-V-E-E-K-D-3-V-P-I.

Simon, um, very, very interesting signal you have over here on the input.

Um, K-D-3-V-P-I and the group W-A-3-V-E.

I'm going to, I'm going to make, uh, make this my next to last final also here.

I didn't want to hear comments from Bill yet.

But, um, because I've got to get up and get, get to bed.

I've got to get out of here early tomorrow morning and run some errands.

But I just took a video of your signal coming over here direct on 385.

And your frequency is varying.

So, we need to take a look at that.

And that's very strange.

So, uh, as you, as you modulate, as you deviate, the entire, uh, well, the carrier should,

the carrier should be varying.

However, what I did was it should not, it should not vary as much as it's doing all the way over

for the, uh, for the deviation.

So, the stability just doesn't seem, the resting frequency, I should say, is varying.

Well, that's, that's the accurate, the accurate depiction.

So, I will show you that.

And what I also did was I took a picture of the repeater output to show you the difference.

And like right now, I'm looking at my signal and it is rock solid, uh, on the spectrum scope

over here, my 385 transmit signal.

Because I listen to myself as I'm actually transmitting over here.

So, you might even hear a little bit of an echo in the background.

But in any event, uh, uh, it's quite, quite interesting.

So, I'll have to see what's going on there, uh, with your system.

But the deviation needs to come up just a little bit.

Uh, the volume's just a little bit low.

So, if you have a mic gain or deviation setting on there, you might want to tweak it up a little

bit.

We can help you do that.

Joe has the eagle ear, too, as we probably all know.

Well, we all know, but you, you, you may know.

So, he will give you a really good audio report for sure.

He has a golden ear for that kind of stuff.

So, if your audio passes the GMS smell test, you're in good shape.

Uh, anyway, I'm going to make this my final.

And, uh, yeah, we'll hook up Simon for sure.

Please give my very dearest to, uh, to Summer for sure.

Tell her it was a real pleasure to, uh, to meet her yesterday for sure.

Uh, KC3OOK in the group to transmit WA3VEE.

WA3VEE.

KC3OOK in the group.

Yeah, Ron, that spectrum spoke is handy for things like that.

And I've noticed on Simplex that a lot of times people bump the dial and they're off frequency.

And you, I'm learning that I can associate seeing it.

And so when I hear it, I recognize it by, uh, more like I see it, learn what that sound is like.

So I can recognize, and I do start to recognize it just from the sound difference.

But, uh, and I'm going to make this my last one as well.

I'm a bachelor tonight and I've been up since, oh, dark 30.

And I'm going to go in and make some blueberry muffins just because I can.

And Simon, my truck must have been earlier, thinking back through it.

That, that International Engine was awesome.

Uh, because my, the earliest ones before they used a Ford engine were the International DT-466.

And they made that for years, 466 cubic inch, naturally aspirated.

And, uh, funny thing about them was when you first started hauling with them, they felt like they didn't have a lot of power.

But once you, you, on a load, once you ran them a while, they just got powerful.

So I hauled a, um, a, uh, a 21-foot, well, it was actually, um, about 30-foot long horse trailer with, um, with 22-foot on the deck.

And I hauled draft horses.

And when, um, and I've actually pulled that hill that you were talking about in Harpers Ferry.

And the other kicker is the one going, uh, uh, uh, from Pennsylvania into Ohio, up, up that big hill where you cross through West Virginia, Ohio, Pennsylvania all at once.

But those things with a couple hours on them just got, just got incredibly powerful.

So, I could talk about them all night long, too.

I love that one.

But I'm going to say 7-3 as well.

And it's good to hear everyone on here after the, uh, workbench.

So, over to you, Simon.

KD3, BPI, KC3-O-OK.

KC3-O-OK.

KD3-BPI.

Thank you, Bill.

Uh, yeah.

And I did turn up my mic gain and turned off auto attenuation.

Um, so I'll ask you real quick if you're still there.

Is it any better?

KC3-O-OK.

Simon, yes, it is.

It, uh, it is definitely better.

I definitely want to take a look at your, uh, your output, though, once we get together.

So, uh, see what's going on with the, with the variation there.

You can hear it in the audio.

When, when someone's off frequency, like 5 kilohertz or something like that, uh, your resting frequency on FM, of course.

When you're, when you're off 5 kilohertz or so, or you're varying, there's some distortion in, in the audio.

And you have a little bit of distortion there.

So, we'll figure out what's going on with that.

And, uh, we also need, I also need to get you the, uh, the complete frequency list.

So, at some point, we'll get together and we'll be able to get that squared away.

And it's, it's no big deal.

And, uh, I'll turn it back to you and, uh, see if Bill is, uh, still in there.

I think he said that was his final.

But, uh, I'm going to run to and get upstairs and I got to take care of the, uh, uh, you know, you talk about herding cats.

I really am herding cats over here for sure.

And, yes, they move in herds.

They do move in herds.

To quote Sam Neill from Jurassic Park.

Uh, KD3BPI.

WA3VE.

WA3VE.

KD3BPI.

And, yeah.

That sounds great.

That sounds great.

I'll tell you two things that it could be.

Um, number one, I have that frequency meter, or SWR meter, uh, the, uh, Kenwood on the radio right now.

So, maybe that has some more problems than expected.

Seems to work from my end, but you would know better because you can hear it.

Ha ha.

The other thing is I have the ground radials of my antenna resting on a gutter.

Because that was the best way I could do it without some more parts.

So, that's where it is.

Um, but anyway, I'll let you go.

Uh, this will be my final two.

Unless someone else is on here.

But, anyway.

Uh, this is KD3BPI.

And, uh, now clear.

Or WA3VE if he has a final.

Either way.

I'll be, I'll be clear.

Have a good night, everyone.

Sounds great, Simon.

Yeah, what I'll do is I'll bring over, uh, frequency counter also.

My, my B and K, which has just been factory calibrated.

And it's pretty much spot on.

Because it looks like your resting frequency, when you're not talking,

your actual, uh, carrier, uh,

is about a kilohertz, uh, about a kilohertz low coming out of that radio.

So, we'll see what, we'll see what happens there.

Anyway, I will talk to you later.

And, um, all good.

I'm glad you came in tonight, uh, into the, uh, into the workbench for sure.

It's always, always a, his sessions are always pretty good.

There's no doubt about it.

Some good, good questions tonight.

So, have a good one.

And, uh, we will certainly be in touch soon.

No doubt about it.

Um, and we've got to set up a link between us here for sure.

Uh, KD3BPI.

With KC3OOK sign.

WA3VE.

7-3-2-2-1.

Have a good night.

KD3BPI.

Bye.

Bye.

Bye.

Bye.

Bye.

Bye.

Bye.

Bye.

Bye.

Bye.

Bye.

Bye.

Bye.

Bye.

Bye.

Bye.

Bye.

Bye.

Bye.

Bye.

Bye.

Thank you.