Family Ties in HVAC: The Good, the Bad, the Balance

Virginia Zunk, finance leader at Trane and HVAC insider, dives into what it’s really like to work with family—and why it can be both a superpower and a challenge.  Learn how to set boundaries without burning bridges, why emotional expectations matter more than you think, and the surprising upside of having your biggest cheerleader in the same building. Plus, hear the story behind the “dessert side vs. growing food side” argument, why CrossFit is the OG cult, and how family ties can actually strengthen customer relationships.

If you’ve ever wondered how to keep work and personal life separate—or how to turn family dynamics into a competitive advantage—this conversation will change how you think about collaboration in HVAC.

Interested in becoming a Trane dealer? Visit us at partners.trane.com to learn more about how you can partner with a leader in HVAC innovation. Explore opportunities to elevate your business and stay ahead in the market with Trane!

Creators and Guests

Host

Mary Carter

Mary Carter is a seasoned sales and marketing leader with over six years at Trane Technologies, currently serving as Regional Sales Manager. With a strong foundation in RHVAC, consumer finance, and strategic account management, Mary brings valuable insights and real-world experience to every conversation.

Host

Stephen Ross

Stephen Ross is a dynamic sales trainer and leadership coach with over nine years at Sandler Training. A former HVAC business owner, Stephen combines his technical knowledge with proven sales expertise, offering a unique perspective on what it takes to succeed in the RHVAC industry.

Producer

Jessica Blair

Jessica Blair is a Senior Learning Manager at Trane Technologies' Residential HVAC unit. With 20+ years of experience in learning and development, she designs and markets blended learning programs to enhance customer learning and align with business goals.

Editor

Kerianne O'Donnell

Kerianne O'Donnell is the Digital Learning Manager at Trane Technologies and serves as the editor of the HVAC Full Blast podcast. With a background in graphic design and a strong passion for developing digital learning experiences, Kerianne brings her creative expertise to the podcast, delivering engaging and impactful content to listeners.

Guest

Virginia Zunk

Virginia Zunk is a sharp, data‑driven finance leader at Trane Technologies who turns complex numbers into clear insights that help the HVAC business grow. Known for her strategic mind, relatable style, and knack for navigating the realities of working with family, she brings a refreshing blend of expertise and honesty to every conversation. If you want smart perspective with real‑world heart, Virginia’s someone you’ll want to hear from.

What is HVAC Full Blast?

HVAC Full Blast is your bi-weekly dose of HVAC business growth, powered by Trane. Hosted by Mary Carter (Trane Technologies) and Stephen Ross (Sandler), this podcast is built for residential HVAC dealers who want to scale their business, sharpen their sales, and lead with confidence.

Tune in for expert interviews, dealer success stories, and practical tips on pricing, service agreements, workforce development, and more. Whether you're in the field or in the office, HVAC Full Blast helps you stay ahead in a competitive market.

Interested in becoming a Trane Dealer? Visit our website at https://partners.trane.com/

We'd love your feedback and suggestions on future episodes. Please email us at [e-mail].

This podcast channel is for general informational purposes only. The views and opinions expressed in these episodes are those of the panelists and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Trane Technologies. Trane Technologies makes no warranty or guarantee concerning accuracy or completeness of the content presented in this webinar.

Trane does not provide tax, legal, or accounting advice. This material is for informational purposes only and it should not be relied on for tax, legal, or accounting advice. Tax law is subject to continual change. All decisions are your responsibility and you should consult your own tax, legal, and accounting advisors. Trane disclaims any responsibility for actions taken on the material presented.

All trademarks referenced are the trademarks of their respective owners. ©2025 Trane. All Rights Reserved.

Join hosts Mary Carter and
Stephen Ross as they sit down

with Virginia, a
finance leader at Trane,

for a candid masterclass on
working with family and HVAC.

From drawing clear boundaries to
managing emotional expectations,

Virginia shares practical plays
for keeping customers first

while protecting relationships
and careers at home.

Whether you're a second
generation contractor passing

the torch or a growing team
that just hired a sibling,

this episode delivers real
world guidance on separating

shop talk from dinner talk,

navigating conflict
without drama,

and turning family support
into a competitive advantage.

Let's get started.

Welcome back to another
edition of HVAC Full Blast.

I'm Mary Carter.

I'm Stephen Ross.

And today we have a special
guest on and it's one of

my favorite people
on planet earth.

I'm so excited. Virginia,
welcome to the podcast.

Thank you. I'm
excited to be here.

I'm excited to
excited to chat today.

No, I can't wait.

So Stephen always brings
on all the guests.

He has the most friends the
industry and I was feeling

jealous and I reached out
amongst my network and I'm

really lucky because my
network is my family.

So

I'm so pumped that you're here.

Why,

how can I introduce
this in a concise way?

Why, why do I get to afford the
opportunity to bring my sister

onto HVAC full blast?

So a fun fact is that
Mary and I worked together

and we have worked together
for the past handful of years.

And then even more fun fact is
Mary recruited me to this industry.

So we are sisters in the HVAC
industry taking it by storm.

So I work at Trane.

I'm a finance leader here for
our residential business and

I'm super excited to be here.

Talk all about working with
your family and how that can be

sometimes fun, sometimes not.

And how it's great to have an
ally who knows all the players

in the game too.

Yeah.

Stephen, have you ever
That is how it goes.

Well, that's how it goes with
Colts in general is that you always

get recruited by somebody
that, you know, love.

So, I mean, that's what we that's the
first thing we're learning today is

that Mary recruited
you into this cult.

Yes. Right. She did.
Very successfully.

Wouldn't wouldn't be
the first one either.

Yeah.

I was getting
ready to ask, like,

what other cults has
Mary recruited you into?

Are you into Irish step
dance as well? Do you sail?

I

wasn't allowed to Irish step
dance because my mom our mom's

our mom wanted us
to to be different.

So I had to do a
different kind of dance.

Mary got that on lock.

But she's recruited me into
the football cult, the sports cult,

trying to be a little
more well rounded there.

So she helps me out a
little bit, gets me going.

Sorry.

Full disclosure, my mom did not let
Virginia do Irish step dancing because

Virginia is such a
better dancer than I was.

And she knew that if I did,

if if Virginia was allowed to
do the same sport as I did,

then I would lose miserably
to her all the time.

You said it. That's
me. That's true.

That's that's a true fact.

But no. That it's so true.

And and at one point, we
were cross fitting a lot together.

That that's what is
absolutely a cult.

So we've that's true.

You were doing what together?

We do a lot we did some
cross fit back in the day.

We were Cross Fit.

Okay. Sorry. Gotcha.

CrossFit. The OG cult.

Yeah. That is the OG cult.
That is the OG cult. Nice.

Yeah. So we work together.

Have you ever worked with
a family member, Stephen?

My brother-in-law and I
worked together twice,

and then I tried to recruit
him to do it a third time,

and he was like, definitely not.

Definitely not. So there you go.

But it happens, right?

I mean, in this industry,

I feel like family
ties cross over a lot.

And even with some
of my customers,

I work with two brothers closely
and I see it more often than not.

And I thought it might be
an interesting topic for the

podcast because working with
family definitely brings

some unique challenges.

I know my mom always says
that she wished she had more

daughters so that they
could come work a train.

But there's things that happen.

The way we navigate them
and support each other

is sometimes different
than when you might just be

catching up with a family
member and asking them how

things are going on at work.

Sometimes it's like,
I know too much.

And so I know which buttons
not to press or where to go.

And it's hard to always
navigate that well,

I'll say.

Absolutely.

It's been interesting,

especially as we've come into
being at the same business unit

to also learn

when we're catching up on
a drive home or something,

you know, not
always talking shop,

making sure also
that we pivot to

the personal,

which sounds funny talking
about a conversation with your

sister, but Mary and
I could talk shop

for a long time we
really wanted to.

So it's also keeping that
balance going as well.

Yeah.

Should we should we divide it
up into like the good and the

bad and start with the good or
should we start with the bad?

Like, don't I don't know how
where where do you wanna start,

Mary?

Let's start with maybe
the good, I think.

I think we can all use a
little uplift to get us going.

That means we end with the
bad, so I'm okay with it.

You know, we're gonna
make it a sandwich.

Right? I'm say it. Okay. Oh.
We're gonna end on a high note.

I like the sandwich idea.

All right, so let's back up.

So Virginia, what were you doing before
Mary recruited you into the cult?

Before Mary recruited
me into the cult,

I was working at a bank
doing a lot of data

management and my background
is more in math and all

things nerdy and spreadsheets.

So it's a little ironic.

I was talking to her one day
about how I just wish I was

doing more in Olympics,
type finance work.

And I think two days later
she called me, she's like,

so I was at the
gym, my other cult.

And

I was working out with someone
who was talking about how they

really need someone who
can do math and do finance.

And so that was the way in.

But before I was in Columbus,
Ohio working for a bank,

doing some really kind of
straightforward data management

and just wanted to push
myself a little bit more

and learn myself a
little bit differently.

I think what was funny is when
I was debating if I wanted to

come to train,

I was talking with my
grandpa who was an engineer.

And I had said, you know,

but what if I want to go
into an industry I care about like

fashion or, you know, something
more glamorous than HVAC.

And he said, turn your unit off
in the summer and tell me you

don't care about HVAC.

So we could also thank grandpa a
little bit for getting me here too.

Nice.

That's so true. That's so true.

It was a great networking
opportunity because

literally this woman at the gym
was just talking about how hard

it was to find talent and recruit
in specifically math and data.

And I just said, I've
got the perfect person.

I know exactly who you need.

And it's a total conflict
of interest. They're my sister.

And she was like,
okay, tell me more.

And it just worked out.

And at the time Virginia
started that role with a

commercial business unit.

And so we weren't
necessarily in the same

businesses, but we were
in the same building,

which was kind of fun.

And we eventually,

with some changes
in the company,

I took a role outside of
the company for a few years,

but Virginia was able to stay
on board and has a little bit

more continuity on the resume.

I tend to jump around
and make changes a lot.

So that was kind of interesting
to also kind of see when I

left, what she was
still gaining over with

Trane and in those
business units.

And it was interesting.

One of the good things was that
she kind of reminded me that

the grass isn't always greener,

but it's also well
watered at home and what

you grow and what you nurture
can really become something

really beautiful.

And it made me want
to come back so badly.

Like, oh man,

I think I left my sister over
there and she's thriving and I

gotta go back to that.

So that it that was a really
interesting kind of turn in

both of our careers, I'd say.

Nice. Nice.

And then when Mary
came into residential,

I think it was a little bit
after I came in to residential

and I had had some
trepidations and that that

kind of came back in a
one eighty of her saying like,

it is it's okay to have a
little bit of change but you're

still at a place that is nurturing
and wants to see people grow.

So it's we've been we've been
able to give that to each other

but kind of still focused
around that that common area.

My favorite thing oh, go ahead.

I was just gonna say, like,

I think one of the when I talk
to people who are in family

owned businesses or who work
with close closely with family

members, Like,

one of the downsides is the that you
just see each other all the time.

So there's just
which could be great.

And then also there's times
where you're like, man,

I would really just like to go
to work and not see somebody

that I'm related to.

So they're like, and I again,

that's not necessarily
a comment on YouTube.

That's just what I've heard
from other people in in kind of

family and businesses.

So there's maybe, you
know, one challenge.

So how do you guys,
how does that play out?

Has that ever I mean, you
worked in the same building,

but you didn't necessarily
have desks next to each other.

So, like, have you ever run
into anything like that?

No.

I mean, for me, because
we work in different

states now, I think it's more
fun when we actually get to

be together and people
realize like, oh,

you said your sisters,

but now that I'm standing next
to you and you're both laughing

at the same time,
absolutely you are,

were raised in the
same household.

Yeah.

But when we were in
the same building,

because there was
still that separation,

I always thought
that was really nice.

It can get you into a little
bit of trouble though because I

could go up to Mary's
desk and talk to her.

Then we look at the
time and it's like, Oh,

we've been talking about maybe
family drama for forty minutes.

And we do both have jobs that have
expectations and need to get done.

So it does come with
a little bit of that

blurred lines of is
now the right time.

So, but I think now it's more
fun when we get to be at events

together because especially
with how Mary is so customer

facing also having that
linkage point of, you know,

we work in a family
business too.

It just is maybe a different
scale or a different way that

we serve our customers, but it's
a fun way to have that

opening conversation with
some of Mary's customers.

If there was any piece of
advice that I could give family

members working
together, it's to be very

mindful of the development
plan that your family

member is on, and in my
case, my sister, and also your own.

Virginia deserves her
own runway to shine and

create opportunities and be a
presenter and take the lead.

And I'm her older sister and I just
want to be there for all of them.

But I had to learn,

especially when we were
in the same building,

like this is her moment.

This is her presentation.

Like you sit in the back
and you watch and you cheerlead,

but maybe you don't ask a
question because you just,

you have to kind of give
that space to allow for

everyone to kind of feel the environment
almost as if you weren't there.

And I think what's so cool about

being able to work with family
is your ultimate best support

system is there.

So to act like you're not there
for me is really challenging.

I also recognize the
importance of being able to

give her just some
room to go be herself.

Like we all have to keep
learning and keep finding areas

where we wanna learn
and do other things.

And if it's just me
hovering over on that,

then that's no good for anybody.

But I'll say that's one of the
hardest things for me about

working with Virginia.

Like I'm her number one fan.

So I'm just gonna,

I'm just so excited to like
hear about what she's doing and

what she's talking about.

And like she said,
next thing you know,

time to get away from you.

And I'm like, oh, right.

Have my own job
that I gotta go to.

So it gets it's we do have
to be really mindful of that.

That's pretty cool.

What do you think, like,

the the flip side of that
sometimes is it's pretty cool

that you get to cheerlead
for your family,

but not everybody grows up
and then has a sibling that is

their biggest cheerleader.

Sometimes you grow up and
have a sibling that, like,

you can't stand each other,
or maybe it's just temporary.

Like, you know, she brought
sweet potatoes to Thanksgiving,

and you wanted to bring sweet
potatoes to Thanksgiving.

But now you gotta
go work together,

and you're kinda pissed
about the sweet potatoes.

Like, how does how do
you how do you stop,

like, maybe the drama from
spilling over a little bit?

For me, it's been a,

I've had to learn to kind of
find my voice in that way in a

lot of different
avenues in my career,

but especially with Mary,
it's also just saying like,

I don't have time for it today
and being willing to just

whether it's teams, text, call,

I need to problem solve this.

I need your help to problem
solve this actual work issue.

This is a real
life revenue issue.

So let's, can we just put it
to the side and solve this?

And sometimes, you
know, as sisters,

it helps us get over
whatever else might've been

happening, but it also
allows you to have that

privilege of focus and
also realize that as

we are family who work together

at work, work comes first.

Maybe with the few
life moment exceptions,

but when we have to get
into that mode, think,

and I think people who have
worked with us in settings

would agree.

We're very capable of
challenging each other

or recognizing that we are
here to get a job done.

And I think that speaks to us
also being high performers and

just wanting to do
well and maybe being

competitive growing up but
being able to just draw that

line and say, leave the sweet
potatoes in the past because

we've got to actually problem
solve this for our customers.

And it's also that mindset of
keeping the customer at the

heart of what we do and wanting
to make sure that the dealer,

the distributor, the
actual homeowner is what

is our North Star,
not just our drama.

That's how I think we've
approached it in the past as well.

I know.

I'm really, really sitting
here racking my brain,

trying to think of drama
that we've had recently.

Maybe, and we are maybe just lucky
that way that we just kind of

in general get along.

And that was not
always the case.

Like we, we definitely had our
years of just kind of like,

I don't know what she does.

I don't know what is going on.

It's been years of kind of always
working back to that closeness.

Yeah, I mean, that really is it.

When we go to work,

it's just not the time to
rehash what happened at

grandma's birthday
and how all the weird

holiday plans did
or did not happen.

We just have kind of learned
that work time is precious

and personal time
is precious too.

So we just, I think we're both
really protective of keeping those

buckets fairly separate.

Yeah, all have this work life

balance, what's the
perfect work life balance.

And when you do
work with family,

Mary knows that I don't want to

work thirteen hours a day.

That's not my goal. That's
not what I wanna do.

So how do we stay focused so
that we can all go home at a

normal time and enjoy our life.

And that might also mean
enjoying dinner with each

other, talking about
something else.

So I think work life balance
when you do work with family is

not only your work hours,

but the content of
your conversation.

Yeah. Well said.

What do do?

What do you do at
like, you know,

Sunday afternoon dinner
or something there?

And the whole family's
sitting around,

and you guys are
talking about train.

Everybody else is like, dang it.

Let's talk about something else.

Does that, like,
that ever happened?

Yes. Yes.

This has happened.

And this has happened on
the reverse for me as well,

where my mom and my husband
have a language that they

speak amongst their
careers with acronyms.

And I am just
sitting there like,

okay, you know, I guess I have
no idea what they're talking

about, but they can speak
very similar languages.

And so it's really fun when
I get to do that with Virginia,

because then we get to go into
like acronym kingdom and we

get to do it too.

So it's on the one
hand, I don't know,

maybe my jealous competitive
nature is like, Oh,

I have somebody I
can do that with too.

I always use it as a test.

Mary and I might be talking
but can they follow the

conversation because if
they can a homeowner can.

Sometimes I fail to the vibes
I fail miserably especially

talking about people
and with no context.

But I also think
you can use it as a,

know, work is a
big part of life.

So how do you bring everybody else
into the conversation to people?

Other people might have
perspectives that they can share.

We all have also gotten
shut down by our parents.

So it's like enough is enough.

Sometimes you feel like
you're back a kid getting

scolded and you're
like, Oh, okay.

Pivot to, you know Yeah.

What I baked to this week
or something instead.

Yeah.

Do you ever get so does the
reverse ever happen where

you're at work and
somebody's like,

can't take both of you
once, like talking about whatever.

Like, is it is it do you
ever run into that scenario?

I think it's more like,

we had the opportunity to
travel to the same event in

February and it
was more just like,

wow now that I see you next to
each other like I can't believe

you're really sisters.

Or I had said to someone
sometime you know, Oh yeah,

Mary Carter is my sister.

And they were like,
like your blood sister?

I said, yes, I'm curious
as opposed to what?

And they're like oh
like a sorority sister.

I was like no no no
no no she's my family.

Like so I it's not so much I
can't handle you guys together,

but it is a little bit of like wow
I can't believe you're actually

related and here and
working well together.

I think that's
more the surprise.

I agree.

Here's something that happens
to me, Virginia, is, you know,

I'm somewhere and
somebody goes, hey,

I heard your podcast. And I'm
like, yeah. What do you think?

And they're like, I think
Mary Carter's awesome.

And it's happened so often
that, like, I get sick of it.

Like, do you ever get do people ever walk
up to you and just go, you know what?

Your sister's really awesome.

And you're like, well,
you're the thousandth person.

Tell me that. But by all
means, tell me again.

Do you ever just
get sick of that?

Yeah.

There was a time
I think also being

the younger sister, was like,

yeah she is.

Heard of my whole Me too. Yeah.

But

now it is a little bit of like
yeah I know she's really good

at her job and she's really good with
her customers and she knows her stuff.

And again, it takes people
by surprise of like,

you're not gonna say, Oh,

she was annoying or
throw her under the bus.

And I'm like, well, yeah,
she's my older sister.

Of course she's annoying.

That's also her job, but like,

I think she's really
good at what she does.

So I think she
deserves to be there.

And so, you know,
it does happen,

but it's a little bit funny.

There are some people
though who will be like, Oh,

which Ewen is gonna be
my favorite sister today?

Like I just talked to Mary,
now I'm talking to you.

Like which one is gonna make
my life a little bit easier?

I'm always like probably Mary.

I'm in finance, let's be honest.

She's making you money. I'm
telling you not to spend money.

That's so true.

I mean, we talk about that kind
of advocacy for people that you

network with anyway, right?

That, you know, who's speaking up for
you when you're not in the room and

again, like, it's so natural and so
easy for me because it is a family

member but it's a really good
thing to carry forward to when

you just think about
your other coworkers too.

Like, not that, you know, I
think sometimes we say like,

we're a family like in the
sense that maybe can feel a

little cheesy, but if you
really are working closely in a

business with people, sometimes
they do feel like family.

The way I always think
about it is, well,

like how would I talk about
Virginia in this moment?

Like I'm proud of her. I
wanna wanna compliment her.

I wanna praise her.

And you can bring that forward
when you're talking about other

employees too.

That's a good way to think
about employees and working

together and family is talking
about people positively.

One thing that has happened
to us that I find interesting,

and I think maybe people
can relate to is sometimes

we're privy to
sensitive information.

And there have been moments
where it's like, wow,

the first person I want
to tell this to is my

sister, not even because
of her finance role or

anything, just because it's
like some piping hot tea.

I cannot.

That

would not be appropriate
to be sharing.

And that's hard.
That one gets me.

And I have to say,

I don't think we've been burned

by anything necessarily, but
it is really challenging when

you want to kind of dish on
something that's going on.

And again, it's a line that
we're very, very careful about.

If I could give that advice too,

it's because they're
family doesn't

mean you have to let them
in on every little detail.

And I don't know if you've
seen that too, Virginia.

Yeah.

And I know that

my roles and responsibilities,
I also know it would be very

easy for people to go
to Mary and say, well,

can't you just ask Virginia?

She's your sister.

And it's like, well, could,
but ethically though,

so I won't.

But there's a lot of times
where it's either something

really exciting or really hard
or frustrating is happening.

And I do want to

talk to Mary about it because
she is my sister and she does

know the players and I don't
have to give a ten minute

background on what's happening
like I would a friend.

But I know that I can't because
we're not at a place for that

part of the organization or for
anybody else to know about it.

It is a little bit funny though
sometimes and it goes both ways.

I'll say something to
Mary like, Oh my gosh,

like I can't believe
this happened.

Or she'll be like,
Wow, this is crazy.

And we're just like, Yes, it is.

Stay tuned.

Like because you just
are like, I, you know,

and both of us I think are
really good at reading like,

okay, clearly like
it's hands off,

but it is certainly something
that just because they are

family, there are still boundaries
around what is and isn't

appropriate to be sharing
and talking about.

And that can be hard.

That can be hard when so much of
your life revolves around work.

Yeah, yeah.

I agree.

Embarrassing stories.

I mean, I feel like we should
cover this topic as well

because, again, our listeners,

they count on me to ask the
hard questions sometimes.

And so I feel like
I would be letting

down some of our listeners
if I didn't say Virginia,

give us a good embarrassing
moment from Mary's childhood.

A good embarrassing moment
from Mary's childhood.

It's pretty self centered kid.

So I don't

if that's painful.

You're like Mary who?

Mary what? Mary who?

No, I think I'll just like,

it's not embarrassing.

I just think it's kind of funny.

Like when Mary was driving
back to school one year,

she had a goldfish.

Mary had a pet goldfish in
college named George who was

alive for much longer
than a goldfish should.

And we were driving back
from New York to where

she was at school in South
Carolina and just like

constantly checking
on this goldfish.

I was like, what are we doing?

Like, but also like making
music videos in the car

and we both were very into
like Harry Potter on Game

Boy and all those
things like that.

But George the Goldfish
just sticks out to me.

It's like so random
but she did it.

She had him for a
really long time.

Was a real one.

He How long did George
the goldfish last?

Like like three years. Yeah.

That's amazing.

He was he was my study buddy.

He would he would
hang out with me.

Like, I had friends, but

quite at George.

But I really I really
met George. Yeah. Yeah.

You know, Virginia,

if one of those music videos
you guys made on one of the car

rides happened to end up on
the HVAC full blast YouTube

channel, I mean Right.

There could be some
money involved.

I'm just

saying. Could be.

Could I'm trying trying to monetize
anything I can at this point.

So

But I feel like it maybe
just for myself, like,

I always think of Virginia as
like being really good at hair

and she's just got this like
long hair that I've never been

able to really grow.

And I'm always constantly like

coming to the office whenever
I'm in town and flipping and

just like seeing
myself in a mirror.

Then I'm like, I need Virginia to like
come over to my hotel and like get

me ready tomorrow morning.

I'm like running around
like a crazy person.

Like if there was one like non
work related skill that I could

have, it would be her ability to
actually put together a hair look.

I'm so glad I did my hair this
morning because that would have

been really embarrassing if
I had a top knot on my head.

Yeah.

Well, I just want to think
about bringing it back to our

contractor world and

kind of leaning in on one
of the questions you brought up

earlier, Stephen, but when
there is family drama or family

conflict, we already kind of
talked about how we just know

that there are clear lines
and if work is coming up,

we've got to get over it and
work together to kind of like

let the work situation go first.

But what other kind of conflict

resolution maybe would you
recommend for the workspace?

Stephen, maybe because you've
even managed some teams before,

even if it's just two coworkers
who maybe are really close and

now all of a sudden they're not
getting along because I don't know,

maybe something happened on the
basketball court or something,

like something's not settled.

How do you resolve conflict in
the workplace with someone that

you're really close to
or just friends with?

Yeah.

I think I mean, that's
a that really is I mean,

that transcends heating and air.

Right?

Like, that's long
term friendships,

relationships with your spouse,
relationship with your kids.

Like, it really doesn't matter.

I think given a long enough,

deep enough relationship,
sooner or later,

somebody's gonna get their
feelings hurt about something,

and it's going to be an issue.

And so, you know, what
what happens next?

I mean, I think
that's the challenge.

And,

you know, thinking through, I you you
only control your side of the equation.

That's the other piece to that.

And so what you might
wish would happen,

and then what actually
happens are almost always two

different things.

And so you have
to be willing to,

you know, understand that you're
probably not whatever the ideal outcome

was, it's probably
not gonna happen.

So knowing that it's
not gonna happen,

if you're holding out for it,
give up holding out for it.

But then also, like, is it
possible to move forward?

I think that's kind of the
the question that we end up asking

ourselves sometimes.

Like,

can it move forward?

Is it possible to move forward?

What does it look
like to move forward?

And unilaterally, what
do I do to get it there?

Because it may or may not be reciprocated
immediately by the other side.

I mean, I think
that's the issue.

And with family, it's tough.

I mean, I,

you know what?

We work with all size
companies at Sandler,

and one of our clients,
a very successful client,

was a third generation
family owned business.

So grandpa started the
business, grew it for a while.

There were three brothers
that took the business over.

And then on the on
the third generation,

one of the grandkids really
kinda jumped into the business,

rolled up his sleeves,
put in a ton of work.

And so you've got one
grandkid from one of the three

brothers, right,

that that's really the driving
engine behind this business.

But but what's gonna happen at
some point is he's like, man,

I'm carrying the workload for
this entire family run business.

Like, this this can't happen.

Like, this isn't a
long term solution.

So now he's got to decide,
well, what do I do?

Like, on one hand, he can
leave. He can just say, hey.

This really doesn't fit
for me anymore. I'm out.

When that happens, though,

the family run business
likely collapses.

So that may have
been the easiest

thing for him to do,

but not necessarily the easiest
for everybody else to do.

The other challenge that he
had was that the opinion of the

three brothers that owned the
business is that the business

was worth more
than it really was.

So in terms of buying them out,

they just had
unrealistic expectations.

But now, I mean,
but it's a family

issue.

Right?

And so at some point, he
just kinda had to say, hey,

here's what I'm willing
to pay for the business.

I I'm not gonna stay and grow
a business that I don't own.

So I'm either
leaving or I'm going

to stay and buy the business.

And if I stay and
buy the business,

here's the amount of money
I'm willing to offer.

And so as as challenging
as that is to be

unemotional, because
everybody's emotional,

everybody gets to make
their own decision.

Like, the the guys that own
the business can say, hey.

We're gonna sell it or
we're not gonna sell it.

And if we're gonna sell it,

we can either sell it to
our nephew or our son,

or we could go put it on the
open market and try to sell it

to somebody else.

And in in a lot of scenarios,

that may be the best way
to to do it is to say, hey.

We had this tight family,

but the business really now
is what's causing the angst.

And if we wanna preserve
the family, like,

we might just have to liquidate
the business or sell it and

take the cash, split it up.

Or, you know, ultimately,

what ended up happening
is they did sell it to

the guy that was running it,

but they sold it and just
were bitter about it.

And so a lot of times now, like,

the family is kinda splendored,

and they don't hang
out together anymore.

And and that's fine too.
I mean, I don't know.

Yeah.

You know?

I mean, not every not everything
works out perfectly in the end.

Not everybody lives
happily ever after.

And I think sometimes
you just go, hey.

Do I wanna be here? Do
I wanna be involved?

Do I not wanna be here? Do
I not wanna be involved?

And so everybody's got to
really kinda make their own

decision on that.

And I think you try to put in
the best effort you can to make

it work for everybody,

but you also have to maintain
boundaries and be healthy about it.

And it's it's messy sometimes,

but I don't know that it's
any more or less messy with family

than other people.

It's just life's messy.

I think I think that this
very well said and there's so

many things in
there, but, you know,

you kinda said the
keyword of expectations.

Right? But then level two of
that is emotional expectations.

And again, just to
kind of recap this,

I think one thing that Virginia
and I have really learned to do

well is manage emotional
expectations of

each other at work.

And

I don't expect Virginia to
answer every ping that I sent

her, especially when it's non
work related because, you know,

we're big fans of a certain pop
star and cheap to post a lot of

news during the work
hours and midnight hours.

And, you know,

just because I saw the latest
Taylor Swift update doesn't

mean that she did.

And I also just I can't expect
Virginia to engage with me on

that level all the time.

Right? And Yeah. Vice versa.

And so, like, right off the bat,

feelings never get hurt if
you're not talking to me right

away on teams, like never.

And that's, that seems
like such a simple thing,

but it can be something that
even with other coworkers,

I find that my emotional
expectations are different.

I'm like, why aren't
they pinging me back?

Why aren't the dots
coming up? Where are they?

What's happening?

And I probably should maybe
check myself and bring that

into some other co
working relationships.

Yeah, emotional expectations.

That's a huge, huge part
of managing all co working

relationships
really, really well.

Respecting the status,

which is funny because
sometimes Mary will be like,

You were red all day.
I was like, Yes, I was.

Here's a screenshot of
my calendar. Yes, I was.

Like where is my friend?

Of course, boss is probably
gonna hear that and go,

why weren't you red all day?

Out here making money.

Making money. Making money.

No, it's fun. It's a fun thing.

And then just keeping ourselves
a little bit more attuned to

how much shop we talk
out of the office.

I think that's still an
ongoing challenge for us.

We're still going to kind of work
on that one going into the new year,

but it's something that's
worthwhile keeping in check.

If you just find yourself just
only catching up about work,

like, take a break, do
something different,

switch it switch it up,
change the record, you know?

I don't know if anyone's
doing records anymore.

I'm maybe I'm
dating myself, but

think they might.

Before we go, I mean,

I gave Virginia the chance to give
us an embarrassing story about you,

and and the best she could
come up with is a goldfish.

But,

I mean, if we flipped
it around, I mean,

you were the oldest sister.

Any embarrassing stories?

I'm sure the finance team at at
Trane Technologies would love

to hear a little story
about Virginia growing up.

So I mean,

gosh.

Virginia just
wasn't embarrassing.

Like, she's just
so put together.

The the thing about Virginia
is she's a really good dancer.

Like, a a really, really,
really good dancer.

And I actually think there is
probably video of her in New

Orleans with her old
finance team and, like,

Virginia, I can break it down.

Was on my way out so I
thought I had nothing to lose and then

they put it on the recap video.

I was like, oh, that's
in here forever. Yeah.

So all of my, like, like
it would be mortifying for me,

but like Virginia just
straight dancing up in public.

It was a regular thing
in our family and,

but she was so good at it.

So for me it would
be embarrassing, but,

but not this one.

Virginia's always just been
maybe the emoter in our family.

She feels her feelings the most.

Oh, here's one. Here's
a great story, actually.

This is, I think a lot of people
can relate to this and it kind of

brings a grandpa back in too.

But Virginia was a huge,

huge dessert fan growing up.

But the rule in our
house was you had to

eat your growing food first.

And she won an argument with
our grandfather who was an

engineer and very, very strict.

But looked him right
in the eyes and said,

my growing food side and like
referenced half of her body.

My growing food side is full,
but my dessert side is empty.

And I cannot eat any
more growing food.

I must have dessert now.

And he thought the way she put
together the whole argument was

so succinct and growing
food side and dessert side

became the standard
language in our house.

Yeah.

So is is somebody
uneducated in dance talent,

like on a like, what would
be if we had to come up with,

like, Elaine on
Seinfeld level, like,

maybe that's the entry level
and, like, Janet Jackson,

backup dancer, is the top level.

Like, where does Virginia
rank on that list?

In the middle. And
Mary's gonna be like, no.

Janet Jackson's
background dancer.

Put it in the middle.

Virginia is Beyonce always.

I do.

Oh, wow. Alright.

And and Virginia, where
does where does Mary rank?

I mean, on on, like, the
scale of dance talent?

What do you level.

Her her dance sport didn't
allow her to use her arms,

so we are still working on that.

That's amazing.

I don't know what
to do with my hands.

I mean, I'm in awe either way.

My talent level on the dance up
is like Katy Perry left shark.

Right? Like that's from the
Super Bowl a couple years ago.

Like, so there you go.

That's what you heard of.

Well, this was sort of a
different kind of episode for us,

but just a fun way to kind of
reflect on what it's like to

work with family.

And obviously we're
really big fans of it.

Hopefully you are too.

And if you're ever looking
for more tips on this,

Virginia and I are always happy
to kind of talk and brainstorm,

and we'd love to hear from you.

You can email our podcast
at HVAC underscore full

underscore
blasttraintechnologies dot com.

And with that, we're kind of
rounding into the holiday season.

Any fun plans?

I'm just gonna read all the
books that I wanna read.

Reading and catching up on with
each other on not work topics.

How about that? Yep. There
you go. There you go. Perfect.

Sounds good.

Wonderful. Well, you, Virginia,
so much for joining us today.

Stephen and I will catch
you on the next one. Yeah.

Thanks for having me.

Thanks.