Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Women Talking Democracy is a video podcast series hosted by Charlotte Yates
featuring interviews that explore womenʼs leadership and their role in building
democracy. Each interview examines the role women play in building democracy
while unpacking assumptions surrounding women and democratic leadership.
Through examining the diversity of perspectives and approaches women bring
to leadership, the video podcast aims to spark conversations about democracy
and its future challenges.
Hi. Welcome to the Women Talking Democracy series. I'm Charlotte Yates, host of this interview series with women talking about democracy. Today I have the pleasure of chatting with Aline Nizigama, National CEO for the YWCA. Founded in 1873, the YWCA is the oldest and largest gender equity organisation in Canada that has consistently advocated for the rights of women and offers life changing services for women and families.
Speaker 1:Ms Nizigama is a multilingual leader whose international experience provides her with a rich understanding of the place of women in diverse societies and the skills needed to champion change. She has long worked to advance the rights of women and migrants, including access to affordable housing, an end to gender based violence and building an inclusive democracy. In her new role as CEO of YWCA, Aline Nizigama's voice and influence on these issues will be amplified. Aline, it is a pleasure having you with us. I look forward to our conversation.
Speaker 1:So let's start first off kind of an easy question but a groundbreaking one around a little bit about you. You come from a family where your family was involved in politics when you were very young, always advocating for human rights, democratic rights. You've spent many years as a public policy advocate, community leader, really advancing the case for human rights, democratic rights, gender rights, but also an end to racism. In that, tell us how those two connect, what inspires you, but also what motivates you on those difficult days because this kind of work can be tough. So there are days when it's tougher than others.
Speaker 1:So start us a little bit at the beginning and let us understand a little bit about you.
Speaker 2:Thank you, first of all, the invitation to be part of this important initiative. I always reflect back on my upbringing whenever, I think it's in a lot of aspects, many aspects of what I do. I grew up in a household with parents that were always deeply engaged in community as you said and they were also avid consumers of news and, politics whether that was local or international, understanding how are the country of Burundi in East Africa connected to the rest of the world. And so I grew up hearing debates, political debates in my living room. There was always a news channel, know, somebody debating an issue.
Speaker 2:So it was always, I just learned to hear some of these things being spoken about and different people weighing in on issues. And to me, it was fun. I remember being a little, just seeing how vibrant those conversations could be people who did not agree, and that really did shape how I grew to develop my own thinking and critical thinking. And so in 1993 as well, my father did decide to run-in our very first democratic elections in Burundi. He was one of the three candidates that were running and by training he was a professor, he was an artist, he was an author, but he also had many ideas, and he was part of a party that wanted to bring back constitutional monarchy that was based on traditional ways of governance that Burundi knew before.
Speaker 2:Thankfully, he didn't get elected. I say thankfully because the person who was elected instead was killed three months later in a political coup, and it's very likely that had it been him, it probably would have been the same fate, and that plunged the country in a twelve year civil war that took the lives of more than 400,000 people and only ended in And 2,000 and so those things really struck me since I was little, as you can imagine. And I remember then how, my mom, who was the other part of the equation, also in her own ways was shaping my understanding of life and of fairness and equity and how a decade before that moment she had started her own business in a country where women could not. She was the first woman to break barriers, to go in and ask for a permit and to question why and to ask for her first loan, to also ask for why she couldn't get a loan without her husband being part of that. And when my dad decided to run for office, I remember that for her, it was only if she could continue to run her business, and also she understood I think how important it was for her to be in those spaces to model what it could look like.
Speaker 2:And so those things were very much part of my, formative years. I also saw in that exercise that led to mass violence, first attempt at democracy, learned very early that these nascent republics or democracies are also often followed by political instability, and especially when those processes are not well understood. It was the case in Burundi. And also, when you have, like, how things were understood there, a ruling majority that thought that because they had, you know, the power, they had the green light to oppress and to suppress other, which again is anti democratic, right? And so all those things were just part of how I grew to understand how to participate in civic discourse around things that are in our lives.
Speaker 2:One thing that was important for me was understanding that what was political was personal, and what personal is political. I understood fairly early that a small group of people could sit in a closed room and make decisions that very much affect your life and the lives of the community you live, the schools you go to, what you have access to in your stores, how you travel, what you wear, how you pray, and it was clear to me that the way to be able to change things was to be part of the conversations alternatives. And to me, that was the first, those were the first demonstrations of democracy. And so I often think back on those early days and really think that those did a lot for me. I watched women do incredible work in those times, dismantling societal and policy barriers like my mom did, and also, get together and resist.
Speaker 2:And I sought the dynamic that that created and to me again, was, that exposure and that visibility of those things helped me understand and get to where I am today. In this role, as you've introduced me, I've seen grassroots efforts get to the public sphere and become national conversations, and that led to where I am now, as a national CEO of a federation, very much structured, around the same, way our political federation is structured. I get to represent 29 local YWCAs across the country, providing life saving services and programs, but also advocating around issues that they continue to see on the ground to be addressed. And so, but I think how I was raised and brought up really shaped how I come to work today. And what helps me too, as you asked, what helps me center myself and understand where I am.
Speaker 2:Those, you know, when I left my country as a refugee and we lived in The United States, in The U. S, in North Dakota, that is where I very much came of age and realized that those same that understanding of how to participate in a new community where you are, whether that has to do with learning the language, learning the customs, learning the culture. The things that I learned when I was little helped continue to shape how I developed the resilience that I needed to survive in this place. My sister, who I reference as well in this work when we're talking about democracy, did take up an opportunity to run for Senate seat as part of a Democratic ticket. And if you know North Dakota, know that it's a very conservative part of The United States.
Speaker 2:She got 32% of the votes.
Speaker 1:Wow, very impressive.
Speaker 2:Is very much still engaged in the community that she's leading right now around human rights, around anti racism, around inclusion, and valuing those things as part of a healthy democracy. So I think all those things very much shaped who I am and how I show up
Speaker 1:to work, and also, I think they helped me see the vibrancy, of how to continue to do, to not be discouraged by challenges to some of these things. Which is one of the, I think, of the hardest things is that there are moments when you do get discouraged or you feel like you've worked so hard and you thought you were gonna get that breakthrough and then you don't, but you but it sounds like growing up in an environment but also with a support system which would encourage you but also push you to continue even though in the face of setbacks. So so then if we step back a bit to those bigger questions about democracy, you taught and I found it interesting that when you talked about Burundi, said introducing a new democracy when new processes, when people really don't understand, but also then when elected leaders perhaps decide to make decisions in a kind of more autocratic way or make decisions which impact people's lives that they really don't understand. That really actually is a very important, gives you an important perspective on what sustains and nurtures democracy because we think democracy in many countries has been the gold standard.
Speaker 1:And in fact, even for those countries like Burundi, which wasn't a democracy, the democracy was, at that time in the nineties, the gold standard of governance. And of course more and more countries became democratic or started down the road to democracy. So what sustained and what encouraged people to think democracy was a good system of government?
Speaker 2:Very good question. I think starting from the personal, understanding, first of all, that what is doesn't always have to be, and that you can question things when they don't feel right, and also the idea that policy or whatever's happening in the political realm should make life safer and more dignified for everybody. That is something that usually plants the idea that something else is possible, and that some systems are better than others, which is where democracy, this idea that people have rights and they can express their ideas and votes, and vote for a candidate or a person or a system of representation that can carry those ideas forward, is probably the better the gold standard as you've shared. I think in my experience, democracy supported by strong public institutions, as well as processes though, that balance powers between different spheres, different parts of that democratic structure or infrastructure, whether that is parliamentary or executive powers, the media, civil society, as well as I think science, education, academia, All those things, being present, have that is what creates that democratic ideal that we all strive for. I like to think, though, that I'm still thinking about this.
Speaker 2:I haven't seen pure democracy really exercised, and I don't know if that will be a good or bad thing, but I think we've seen attempts at democratic structures, and we've gotten far, and we've, you know, over time, approached the ideal of where everybody is participating in the discourse, and we know that even in Canada, that democratic ideal, if we talk about women, was not always a given, not for all women, not at the same time. We know that black, indigenous, and racialized women had to wait longer to get the right to vote. And it wasn't until 1960 that indigenous women and men had the right to vote in federal elections without losing their status. That is egregious. That wasn't, you know, before that, we can't really talk about a real democracy.
Speaker 2:And we know that for black women in the different provinces, I know that this happened differently. That right had to be fought for and gained. So when we talk about democracy, we have to remember to nuance that, for whom it was, at what time, and what was still to achieve. At any given time, I contend that today, still, we have to continue to fight for some of those things. And so, you've talked about how democracy, this ideal also can not thrive, right?
Speaker 2:And I think we're gonna get to that part in this discussion. But what I've seen, and what I do in my work, is that democracy doesn't thrive when our basic needs are not met. And we don't have access to
Speaker 1:So tell me a little bit about what you mean by when basic needs aren't met, because that actually is a very nice segue into perhaps what undermines democracy. So tell me a little bit about why basic needs being met is important to democracy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, basic needs being met is important because when you're not hungry, when you have a place to rest your head, when you are safe, in your home, at work, or wherever you are, and you, your children, and your family can live peacefully when you don't have to worry about those things, You're not carrying that anger or that resentment against the universe, right? And then you're not fertile soil for something else, which I know in the current climate, has often come in harmful forms, right? So when we don't have things like access to universal programs like health care, like child care, public education, public health, social programs, health increase or public trust in the system, then that is where something else can take hold in people's minds. And I think that inclusion and civic participation are important, essential aspects in keeping a democracy healthy. And especially when communities feel like they have a voice in shaping, not just in being the recipient of policy, but in shaping that policy.
Speaker 2:And when you're talking about healthy democracy, I think that part helps suppress or minimize voting apathy, which we've seen as well, is part of the reasons why sometimes we have democratic decline. Decline happens because of inequality. I really do see that. So for all the reasons I just named. And we are at a time where incomes are continuing to not keep up with the rates of inflation or wages are not keeping up.
Speaker 2:And I know that public programs are also at risk of it being privatized. That means you're going to have to have means to be able to access some of those services that we've taken for granted or are universally shared. When care systems are strained. And this is very important when misinformation, which spreads sometimes faster than, you know, the truth can catch up, and money is used to concentrate power, I think that's when you have the recipe for democratic decline and erosion. And so when people feel that institutions are not working for them, then you start having this anger, this, resentment, and then you get, you become vulnerable, vulnerable to anti democratic ideas.
Speaker 2:We've seen this in many places, in many countries, in many communities, and so our organizations, organizations like YWC Canada, they play a key role because we work directly with communities and see the policies and programs that are supposed to be helping when they fail or when they actually succeed. And so we are right there at the root before, you know, before we talk about other things like, you know, how do bad ideas take hold in communities, but we see where policies have failed. So I think those are very critical things to remember when you're thinking about Interesting
Speaker 1:because I think what you've what you've spoken about is not just what sustains democracy, but also why it's actually currently eroding or as you said democratic decline. And so I think that's very important. Are there, given the range of issues that you've identified as being important to understanding democratic decline, Are there any particular ones that you think are the biggest threats to democracy?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, there are many, and usually it's a combination. And I think, I can tip side a few, but let me start with what I think, how it often starts. One major threat is that disenfranchisement that we see that happens when the distance between the policy development and intentions and the daily realities of everyday people, when that distance becomes too big, Then you start losing people. That is a major threat. So explain that a bit more.
Speaker 2:Give me an So example of what you when you've had community neglect, when people don't have running water, when you do not we only have to wait for too long to be able to access care. I've been in many communities in Canada here where if you are a woman who's abused and you're facing gender based violence, you don't have a place to go. There are 20,000 women and family, their children, 20,000 each month being turned away from shelter, each month across Canada. And we know that a woman is killed every two days in Canada at the hands of an intimate partner. Those are just facts, and so when you have, you know, fifty one percent of the population that's facing those stark realities, and we know those numbers are worse for black, indigenous, racialized communities, remote communities that don't have a lot of infrastructure investments.
Speaker 2:That is when, I think, the working class people start to see that there's nothing for them, And so misinformation can come in and say, We have a solution for you. And oftentimes we know that those things can be harmful, because we know that people, exploit these I also know that in this same vein, we see younger generations facing stark economic realities, stark, you know, and choosing to just give up on politics fully, and housing shortages, which is right here in Toronto where I live, it's quite unaffordable for most people. Rising costs of life across all spheres, Systematic racism, that is another one. When people, you know, based on where they're from, the color of their skins, are not facing the same opportunities have the same accesses, that is a breeding ground for, again, resentment, as well as the limited access to care. I keep talking about that.
Speaker 2:That is when people become more receptive to readers who offer simple solutions, but sometimes harmful ones. And so, that is very important. Another major threat, I know you probably were gonna ask another question there, but another major threat that I want to talk about is attacks on women's rights. This is something that we see, well, this is as old as civilization itself, but we see here in Canada and around the world, it's often a sign that demographic norms are weakening. And you start seeing Interesting.
Speaker 2:You know, attempts to take away reproductive health, safety and autonomy from women, as well as, again, continue to face statistics around violence if I'm at home, at work, on the street, online, and these are often signs. And then we now see the rise of movements that are also a backlash against some of the gains that we had gotten in society that are starting to take hold in the younger generations. And I think that is a huge threat to democracy. Hillary Clinton had a piece, the other day in Foreign Policy that talks about, how attacks on women and gender diverse people is often the first step towards authoritarianism. It's a sign.
Speaker 2:So interesting and yet not something that people necessarily immediately think of.
Speaker 1:Why is it, and I know this is a difficult and complex and I'm not expecting the complete answer to this, but why is it that attacks on women, attacks on trans, on black women and men. Why is it that that is a manifestation of democratic decline do you see? What's going on there that those two tend to go hand in hand?
Speaker 2:I don't have the answers, but if I did, think I would be a very, prolific person. But I think, it is also because there's always an attempt to, well, to go towards a simpler solution instead of addressing this complex challenge. You know, to tackle racism, it's complex because it means you gotta have societal humility to sit down and listen to how people have been experiencing what's happening. That humility is not always there. There are people who see gains inequality as, rights that were taken away from them, and that is something that we have to tackle.
Speaker 2:We have to sit down and say no. Just because I'm getting more access to things that you've always had access to does not mean that I'm taking away something from you.
Speaker 1:So in other words, the perception that there's a zero sum gain,
Speaker 2:if you will
Speaker 1:and therefore if you gain, I lose, means that, and as you say, it can then be taken advantage of by leaders who offer simple solutions, and the simple solution is to withdraw that access
Speaker 2:Exactly, to those particular and the simple solutions are always, we've seen recently, to advance their own self interested goals. So, I do think that they do then manipulate information or disinformation becomes a tool to get people to be voted in. It's, and using media in a way, especially social media, and you know, the way we now know that algorithms work to feed you something that's gonna get you to be angry about this other thing. So it's about simplifying broader, more complex, wicked issues so that it's easier for them to come and offer you a solution. When you think that housing is expensive in Toronto because there are too many immigrants, you're also avoiding tackling the financialization of housing, right?
Speaker 2:The fact that housing is an asset now that gets betted on, that you know, on housing gets bet on and you can invest in the stock market or in different funds to make money off of housing, that's not something that's easy to explain to somebody who doesn't have a place to house their family.
Speaker 1:Those long chain logics, that bigger analysis is at the root also of unpacking some of the challenges that we currently Exactly,
Speaker 2:but we can do difficult things. We can tackle difficult Which then, but then that raises,
Speaker 1:that leads me then about the role of the YWCA. If I think so one of our former guests said, once you move into a period of democratic decline, you can't just go back to what you had before. There is no just going back. So therefore, this is about rebuilding. It's about thinking something new.
Speaker 1:What role can the YWCA play democracy, in also sustaining it, in kind of resisting some of these encroachments on democratic culture rights and so on. Tell me a little bit about that.
Speaker 2:Well, we firmly believe that women's advancement is ultimately tied to democracy. You can't be talking about a system where people are expressing their desires for how they get represented, and you're forgetting about 51% of the population, And that is not just at a time of voting, it's at a time of thinking about what you're proposing in your agenda, what you are, you know, you're gonna do for the community, how we're gonna be, you're gonna be supporting the thriving of communities and the families. We think that without that, I mean, we've seen that, and it doesn't work, it doesn't work. I know that currently there are some movements that are trying to bring back women in the kitchen to home, to the traditional roles that many societies universally unfortunately share and those are debunked ideas. There's no such ideal, even at the times where these regressive movements would want to bring us back to, they were ignoring many other societal factors and of course deeper inequality that I think we can't just ignore today.
Speaker 2:So it's about reinventing and renewing how we understand that, but women's role in those discussions is crucial. I've seen how countries, in my own, on the African continent, my own experience, countries like Rwanda, where at the end of a disaster, the genocide that happened in 1994, they were forced to actually give women big roles. They were the only survivors in many communities. And now Rwanda is one of the countries with the most women in government, with the most women leading local governance, and you look at how they've centered community well-being, healing together, education for everybody, and how different is, that form of democracy. I know it's not perfect, and I know there are many criticisms that can be made, and we should always be questioning when things are not right, but we've seen, we have a case study for how different, what the flavor of democracy can be when you put women in charge in some areas.
Speaker 2:So I think the fact that women's advancement has been tied to stronger democratic forms of governance It's sometimes also difficult to explain how, you know, women also may support authoritarian regimes, and we can get to that. But I think acknowledging how the role that we've had in progress in economic advancements of whatever nation building projects whether that's here in Canada, in The U. S, or across the world, has to be acknowledged. Of course, has to be truthful. We have to acknowledge that that advancement has always been flawed, right?
Speaker 2:And we have to fight for equality, workplace protections, know, all these things that have, equalized the ground so that democratic systems take root, and of course having real accountability mechanisms and continued safeguarding are crucial, crucial. We know that when, again, women's rights are, we see
Speaker 1:that they are the first to erode when democratic institutions are undermined. And so what you've also, though, proposed is you've proposed, you've begun to give us, if you will, the building blocks. Yes. We're thinking about what could a new democracy or a renewed democracy look like and how might it be different from what we see now. So that is a very interesting kind of launching off point for discussing a little bit about women's rights, democracy, and authoritarianism.
Speaker 1:So historically, if we look at women's rights, you've talked about women's right to vote, indigenous people's right to vote,
Speaker 2:I do believe that democracy is required for women, all women, to advance. And in places where we are seeing this attempt to regress, to go back to, and it's usually notions, nostalgic notions of where things were better in the past, it's usually tied to false ideas of stability, of tradition. It may also be tied to religion, and that is a tough one to crack, like I think, because it's usually, it's what we hold dearly in our psyche, in identity, and I think for the women who have ascended to power and then use that power to then support authoritarian approaches, it's usually forgetting that it's that proximity to power does something, I think, psyche, you think that it's, you're protected, it's just the other women who don't deserve it, and that is something that we need to talk about, we need to tackle, we need to be honest about, because that is something that seems to be part of some forms of democratic expressions, let me say, because you get elected into office and then you are not supporting policies that are gonna help other women and men and society in general. But I think it's often tied to ideas of tradition, what is a family, what is, you know, what is my family, my community, and it's very much self centered, and it's about getting out of that self, that individualistic view of community into a more collective and more social view of how we all do better and do well.
Speaker 2:And so it's But we see how, when done well, when I think you cannot bypass the fact that women need to be part of the whole system, we also see the push for renewal, especially for youth, again, and young, racialized, indigenous, black, feminist organizations, and other progressive organizations, labor movements, are also really highlighting the difference that you get in that progressive feminist approach. We see that women contribute to leadership differently. I've seen that in my work. They focus more on collaboration. They focus, and this is a blanket statement, but it's mostly true in what I've seen and I think sometimes literature also shows that, and in some of the case studies that we've seen, they focus on community well-being and long term thinking instead of just the next two years, three years, it's more long term.
Speaker 2:What are we leaving for the next generation? And all of these democracy, renewed forms of democracy, which I think this is a moment to ask for that, need to thrive, to be able to thrive. In Canada, strengthening democracy means exploring ways of, again, I think, exploring the democratic renewal, Including experimenting with different system, better systems of representation, maybe proportional representation is what we need when people see that the person that they voted, you know, not just the first pass, you know, what is it, first pass
Speaker 1:First pass post, yes.
Speaker 2:System, which is okay, which is okay, and it's gotten us to where we are, but maybe there are better ways to get people in a pluralistic society to see themselves as well, represented in government, based on our own, challenges, and I think, people feeling engaged, again, expanding investments in what makes life different for you on the gram, affordable housing, universal childcare, public health, anti racism strategies, real truth based reconciliation, not just glossing over history, just acknowledging the horrors, and committing to doing better, are really what the things that are gonna make everybody feel included, want to participate, want to vote, engage in dialogue, and send somebody to represent them. And I think globally the future of democracy will depend on how we address that. We address inequality, affordability, climate change, and peace and security
Speaker 1:interesting because because you've actually identified a number of changes and differences which in a sense need to happen in order for democracy to be restored or at least to give us some sense that there is, as we move forward and if we move forward, then we have to think about a renewed, a different democracy. So what's your prognosis on democracy? I mean do you think it's some days pretty dark these days.
Speaker 2:So what's your prognosis and how do you see civil society groups helping us move forward? We are the lifeblood of, healthy democracies. Civil societies are holding, literally holding communities together. We are there when there is an opioid crisis to be addressed. We are there when someone is homeless on the street.
Speaker 2:We are there when somebody needs safety. And we build the care in a way that recognizes the human in all of us. And so I think that we need to be part of what whoever's deciding on what the next iteration of democracy is gonna look like. I think that we need to see the work that we've done in the last few years, the YWCA movement has been here for over one hundred and fifty years. We've seen it all, and we always were the troublemakers, the trailblazers when things were bleaker.
Speaker 2:When I reached out to our colleagues in The U. S. And said, you know, we see things are really bleak on your end, we said, you know, how can we help? And they said, we've seen it all. They've been around for one hundred and sixty five years, and they've gone through everything, including the civil rights movements, and they say we are gonna get through, but it's gonna take resistance.
Speaker 2:So it takes resistance to, harmful ideas starting to take place. In the feminist movement, we're seeing these, you know, the manosphere, and these ideas that are on social media affecting younger people in the relationships between the genders that are really simplified and horrific, and I don't understand how these ideas are taking hold, but
Speaker 1:they
Speaker 2:are. And it's about acknowledging them, but it's also acknowledging how political movements can weaponize those ideas in that population, and of course proposing alternative solutions, alternative ideas, alternative policies that help everyone. And, I think that believing in change, and that change is possible, helps wake up and be depressed about the state of the world. And we have been in worse situations, I'm gonna say, although the new iterations of, you know, undemocratic ideas are quite scary, you know, with the advent of AI and the spread of information and how things get to the end of the, you know, the other side of the world in split second needs to be taken seriously, and I think it comes through forms of civic education that is accessible and available to all with good quality, but also one that doesn't, again, sugarcoat anything that we may not be proud in our history, be proud about, and that has to do with oppression and systemic oppression of the different groups that have not always had the access to expression and self determination. And so, I think that's how we fight, not just apathy, but also nihilism that, you know, because we could just be giving up, but we need to resist.
Speaker 2:We need to resist and offer different alternatives, different ways of showing up for each other, and that usually starts at the grassroots level, getting offline, getting back in community, seeing your neighbor for who they are, getting that care spread across. We've seen this during COVID, how it was forced to, you know, forced us to get to know our neighbors a bit more, when we didn't see that older, you know, neighbor, when we didn't know what had happened to them, go and knock on the door, and I think it's about coming back to those very basic notions of community. And I think that's how we also build the solidarity that we need, especially when there are stronger forces at play to be able to counterbalance those stronger forces. I think it's how the working people can get together to address the ruling class, working class against the ruling class. I do use those terms because it is really does come down to some of those notions at the end of the day.
Speaker 1:I love the fact that what you're painting is both a recognition that history has said that we've been through difficult times before and we've built something out of that and that through resistance, organizing, through community we can in fact there is hope, there is a way, but it's perhaps building something different and new.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:So let's turn back to you, Aline. Just let's talk a little bit about you. How has a lot of what you've said today is about how women have shaped the institutions, how women shape culture, women's issues. Tell me a little bit about you Aline. What has, as a woman, how has that shaped how you've worked, what you've chosen to do, and perhaps who you've influenced so far in your life?
Speaker 1:So tell me a little bit about that.
Speaker 2:I think that's such a deep question.
Speaker 1:It is a deep question because it's deeply personal,
Speaker 2:as It's personal. I think being a woman has, beyond everything else, has shaped the way I understand who benefits from policy and who is left out. Because no matter where you're looking at, there's always that question, like who's benefiting from that and who is not? And I've seen this plays out in many cultures and in many contexts. It influenced my priorities and how I'm now choosing to work on specific issues I'm working on, whether that is about recognizing how gender based violence disproportionately affects women, gender diverse people, and how that plays into how that shapes their futures and their self fulfillment.
Speaker 2:How can I help you achieve what you want to achieve so we can all thrive and live together? Those very basic notions of collective effort, partnerships, and having a voice are part of, like, I think of me being a woman and being a mom as well, having two children and two step daughters who are facing again a future where we talk about things that are important to them, and I can see how being a mother, somebody who carried some of that life, helps me understand things at that guttural level. Things like climate change and the future of economic opportunities for all of them around the table and safety for them, know, in terms of how how I'm seeing the conversations around discrimination continue to be, to come back, you know. We think we've solved it one year, and then two a steps big, because
Speaker 1:these are really thorny, big issues which we Yeah, have to keep struggling, but
Speaker 2:but it really does, that lived experience does shape who you are. I mean, a woman, a black woman, an African woman, who's lived in The US, in Rwanda, in Burkina Faso, and now in Canada, Toronto, you bring all that with you.
Speaker 1:That international is what was that international experience, which also means experience as a woman is different in each of those places. And that no doubt, by the sounds of it, influences who you are, but who you influence as well.
Speaker 2:Who you influence as well, I know. I'm new in my role, three years in, but I am starting to see more women, especially more women from black communities and from my own communities say, because you're there and because you're leading the way you are leading, I am encouraged to also pursue leadership positions, or, other decision making positions that I may not have thought of myself in this context, and that is heart warming. I hope I get to inspire more people to come along because we need all the voices, and this is not just women because we're not gonna be able to achieve gender equity if we don't have the men and the boys as well, And I think this is also something that helps me want to continue to engage because I've seen how real change can happen when the community gets together and gets up and shows up for you. So when we think about that then, my last question is if you think about the world we're living in, and
Speaker 1:I think when we were talking before we started the video, you were saying that, the autocracies now far outnumber the democracies in the world. So if we are thinking about democratic decline but also democratic renewal, where or who do we need to keep an eye on so that we have some gauge of what that future looks like, whether it be good or bad?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'll leave you with a few things. Thought about that question. Youth participation. Watch younger people. Young people are reshaping expectations about climate, housing, about justice, equity, and leadership.
Speaker 2:They're redefining that, so watch them. Watch how regressive movements are born and how they proliferate, we've talked about it, in places that think that they are protected. It's when you leave the guards down that you are more vulnerable. Give me an example of what you're Yeah, such as The U. S.
Speaker 2:And many places in Europe where, for example, freedom of expression is used in a harmful way to allow the spread of very, very harmful ideas and misinformation. And you think that, no, something is gonna counterbalance that and that's just one voice, one, you know, lunatic voice, you're not protected, you're not protected. And what can happen somewhere can also happen here. This is a globalized world, we're all connected, and so I think that we need to watch that and always be vigilant. Watch for feminist and human rights movements around the world.
Speaker 2:They often are the first to stand up when economic and democratic, not just economic, just democratic principles are weakened. And I think they often are, they have the pulse of the social and economic and class dynamics in ways that some other institutions in that democracy, you know, ecosystem may or may not have. Watch legislation, especially that related to gender. Watch what is happening. We've seen here in Canada, we've seen this in many provinces, who we're going after to take safety away, to take self determination away.
Speaker 2:Watch how we are addressing gender based violence, reproductive rights, digital rights, because we know that these dynamics play in those realms as well. These are really strong indicators of that democratic direction.
Speaker 1:That's a really great set of issues and I think what's interesting about that question is each person that I speak to brings a new rich kind of understanding of that and that is important.
Speaker 2:It is very, very, very important. And even further that, watch budgets and investments. When we have new governments, what are we choosing to One
Speaker 1:of priorities, yes.
Speaker 2:And who are we leaving at? Why is this the most important thing and why do you think that that is not part of that? These things are separate. And I will say, last piece, is watch how governments treat marginalized communities. Because the strength of a democracy is reflected in the experiences of those with the least access to power.
Speaker 1:Thank you. This has been a most rewarding and interesting conversation. I want to say thank you so much for coming into the studio, sharing your ideas with us and being part of this conversation on democracy.
Speaker 2:Thank you, Charlotte, for having me.
Speaker 1:It's a thrill. Thanks very much. Thank you.