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This month, Mind the Gap's Assistant Producer, Paul Wilshaw chats with Executive Director, Julia Skelton about the company and its achievements.
The Disability And…Podcast gets right to the heart of some of the most pressing issues in arts, culture and beyond with a series of bold, provocative and insightful interviews with disabled artists, key industry figures and the odd legend. The Disability and…Podcast is currently monthly.
Intro
Hello and welcome to the Mind the Gap and Disability Arts Online podcast, Disability and... Bringing together thoughtful discussion and debate. This month, Mind the Gap's Assistant Producer, Paul Wilshaw chats with Executive Director, Julia Skelton about the company and its achievements.
Paul Wilshaw
Hello Julia and welcome to the first Mind the Gap and Disability Arts Online podcast.
Julia Skelton
Hello Paul! It's an absolute pleasure to be here, thanks for the opportunity.
Paul Wilshaw
So, Julia, your job at Mind the Gap is the Executive Director of the company. Can you please tell us a bit about that?
Julia Skelton
So, essentially my job as Executive Director is to kind of make sure the company is on track and that we're going in the direction that we planned and said we were going to go in.
Quite a lot of my work is around making relationships, building partnerships, raising money, and I also spend quite a lot of time working across the whole of the team, just making sure we've got the right people to do the job of work that we are currently involved in.
We do quite a diverse range of work so, as well as our core team, we employ a lot of freelancers. We do collaborations with other organisations so, it's kind of a bit like trying to always have my hand on the tiller of the boat that is Mind the Gap and make sure we're heading in the right direction.
Paul Wilshaw
OK, thank you. So, for people that don't know you, how did you start in the crazy world of creative theatre?
Julia Skelton
Well, I've always, always been interested in the arts, particularly the performing arts. When I was very young, I wanted to be a performer, but I don't think that journey was ever totally realistic for me. So, when I was in my teens, I was kind of really interested in media and communications and journalism, and I was kind of wanting to head in that direction.
But through the course of study and different opportunities, I kind of ended up a little bit by chance working in the publicity part of a department in a theatre, in Buxton Opera House in Derbyshire and I was initially working on press and PR and working on a particular project there. And I kind of just really liked the theatre environment and the constantly changing environment of, you know, different people and different shows and different performers and just became really, really interested and committed, quite quickly, to wanting to pursue a career in the arts. And so, I kind of went through publicity and marketing initially.
Immediately before I joined Mind the Gap, I was Marketing Manager at Harrogate Theatre in the nineties, trying to think what year it was, when it was still a repertory company and I really loved being part again of that team that was about making work and putting work on stage and things. And when I saw the job advertised at Mind the Gap, I just thought, oh, that's interesting. I didn't know the company. I wasn't aware of the company's work, particularly at that stage. It was still a relatively small company at that stage, and that looks like an opportunity to kind of really get more involved in the decisions about what gets made and how it gets made.
I’ve always been interested, as well as the arts, I've always been interested in social change and social justice. And so, I was drawn to the company by the work that it was doing to create equality of opportunity for artists with a learning disability. So, it was a sort of kind of straightforward journey with a few little, tiny kind of twists on the way.
Paul Wilshaw
Julia, you joined the company in 1997. What was the first project you worked on?
Julia Skelton
When I started, the company was still very small, so Tim Wheeler was Artistic Director and there were a number of part time staff supporting, and I came in as Administrative Director at that point. So, the first project that I worked on was to create an application to a National Lottery programme called Arts for Everyone. And the National Lottery had just launched then, I think that was one of its first public programmes, so it was all new to us, and the company had already got an idea that we wanted to create a training program that gave learning disabled artists all the skills that they needed, in order to set up and run their own company.
And that programme as we evolved, the project idea was Making Waves. So, the first three weeks of my sort of baptism by fire induction into Mind the Gap was essentially to write that application and speak to everybody, speak to Tim, speak to the board, speak to the artists who were involved with the company at that point and put together a proposal and fortunately, it was successful. So, obviously it takes a while for funding decisions to come through, and we were currently working on a number of other projects at that time. But my opening memory, as it were, of starting work with Mind the Gap was very much that launch of that programme.
That was very much, I think, a key moment in the company's development in terms of really consolidating the brilliant work that already happened in its first nine or ten years of existence, but it kind of laid the foundations for us to really look at how, we as a company, work in quite individualised as well as team ways with learning disabled artists, so that people can develop the skills and equip themselves with all the knowledge and experience that they need in order to be successful practicing artists.
Paul Wilshaw
Yeah, and that's a prime example. I mean, for me my first time of coming to Mind the Gap was in 2011 for a scheme called Ammonite and, because I was based down in Dorset, I came up to find out more about Mind the Gap as a company because I was interested in producing, but I'm also an actor. So, for me, it was a really interesting time in my career.
You've had nearly over 30 years now with the company.
Julia Skelton
Not quite that many, 25.
Paul Wilshaw
25! Sorry for that, but you've had so many experiences with this company. I really want to know what show has stood out for you the most in your time.
Julia Skelton
I had a feeling you were going to ask me this question and I have been trying to whittle it down to one, but I can't. I think reflecting on that question, there are a number of moments in time in the company's history which feel like kind of really key moments, really kind of key markers. So, Making Waves, the launch of the first training programme, and it was a training programme, but it was a real kind of professional development training programme, so the launch of that was a very memorable moment, and it also coincided with me starting with the company.
One of the first key productions, I think that was a real turning point for the company was the original adaptation that we did of Of Mice and Men, the John Steinbeck classic, which was born out of Tim Wheeler, the then Artistic Director, kind of identifying the seeds in that piece of work that were really resonant with the work and the aims and objectives of the company. And working with writer Mike Kenny to develop a really original, fresh adaptation of that.
Other transition moments for me, again, this is not a performance project, but the capital project, which consumed in one way or another about seven years of my life between 2001, and the original idea and 2008, when we actually moved into Lister Mills in Bradford, our current home. That was a massive undertaking to take just a shell of a building and create a real custom designed space that every single decision that was made, was made with learning disabled artists and people's access in mind. So, that again is something that will, will always be with me.
And then most recently, I think our Daughters of Fortune project, which involved multiple different elements to it, from a small scale forum theatre show through to the large scale Zara outdoor production. That for me is a real achievement, it's very much a team achievement, but taking a seed of an idea and supersizing it into a large scale public performance, and taking a very unknown and not very talked about subject of learning disability and parenthood and the experience of people who are parents, who aspire to be parents, the challenges and opportunities that exist around that.
I think it was a really deep project that delivered a lot and I think it was a project that really, we set out with a very clear vision of what we wanted to achieve, and I think we achieved everything that we set out to. I appreciate that's a bit of a long and not very precise answer to the question, but they're the things that really stand out for me.
Paul Wilshaw
I totally agree with you about Of Mice and Men. I came and saw it in the last time that Mind the Gap done that production with Rob Ewens and Jez Colborne and Jessica… I think it's Jess…
Julia Skelton
Buxton, fabulous actress!
Paul Wilshaw
And it was so powerful and there's so many great projects that the company have done. I was very fortunate to be part of the Daughters of Fortune as the Intern Assistant Producer for the Zara project, which has led me on to being the Assistant Producer at Mind the Gap. And it's so important those internships about where the opportunities are now for people with learning disabilities in the industry to get these internships, to get the opportunities to work outside of the companies that they’re at, and also working with theatre companies that are also in the mainstream.
As well as being a touring theatre company, Mind the Gap also runs professional training. Before becoming the Assistant Producer at Mind the Gap, I was on the Performance Academy course. In 2021, Mind the Gap joined forces with York St John to create a level four accredited course for students with learning disabilities and autism. Julia, can you tell us more about the course and how the partnership came together.
Julia Skelton
Yes, so it certainly hasn't come from nowhere. I mean, we've been building the partnership with York St John University for at least five years, possibly even longer. And it's been built up through a kind of mutual interest in wanting to see social change, wanting to see progression and advancement for people with a learning disability within the wider arts sector and also in education.
I mean, in an ideal world Mind the Gap wouldn't be doing training and development work in the way that we do, but the mainstream sector is still so far from being inclusive and able and willing to make all the adaptions that it needs but York St John University is showing a real long term, genuine deep interest in wanting to work with us to make this progression happen. And I particularly want to mention Professor Matthew Reason in that because his continued interest in a number of ways, in our work, in the company, in looking at how we push forward these developments, has been absolutely key and has been really helpful and linking us up with lots of different, other parts of the university in order to make this happen.
So, it was about two years I think in the development of the level four certificate course, which was an ongoing dialog and conversation between Charli Ward, our Academy Director, and Matthew Reason at York St John, and other members of the team, and basically looking and developing and adapting the way in which we measure progression and measure success for individual students on the course.
So yeah, we're absolutely thrilled. I mean, it is the only course at that level of its kind, specifically tailored to the needs of adults with a learning disability and we've still got lots more to learn so, we're just coming to the final, well we’re in the final term of year one. I'm pleased to say that so far things are progressing really, really well. The students are all meeting the expected level of performance that we would want to see of them at this stage. And the team at York St John are really happy. We think we've got something really innovative and really exciting here and longer term we'd really like to look at opportunities to roll that out into other places and spaces.
So, we are currently working again still with York St John University on something called a Knowledge Transfer Partnership, where we're seeing if we can put together a proposal that would help us to kind of roll that out and look at opportunities for developing that in other geographical areas.
Paul Wilshaw
That would be so brilliant and it's really needed. There are so many companies that are really trying to also get in and break the mould of what learning disabled people can do. I’m going to give a call out to Access All Areas who are doing it down in London, big up to them and big up to all the companies that are really putting learning disability at the forefront of their agenda.
And also, thank you to York St John because we need more universities to do this we need to go out there more. It's a sad state, it's a sad state of affairs to have to admit that. But it is needed and yeah, let's try create change in this industry.
Julia Skelton
Yeah. And I think again, similarly, all credit to Access All Areas for the fantastic work they've done in this area. And there's also Tin Arts and Open Theatre and Prism Arts are all working in slightly different ways on developing these kind of progression and development opportunities. And Mind the Gap has certainly been doing this for 20 odd years and more and it's a slow process and I feel that there are kind of stop start moments in this. But I think we just need to keep sharing learning, looking at collaboration opportunities with other organisations, with peer organisations working in the same field.
Paul Wilshaw
And there was something you mentioned about the mainstream or what is, in inverted commas, the mainstream. And so, I want to know what you think are the main differences between the mainstream arts sector and the learning disability arts sector at the moment, and what would you like to see change?
Julia Skelton
Oh, this is a very complex area. There's definitely lots of interesting and positive things happening. So, Mind the Gap has just completed a four and a bit year project, which is two linked projects, one called Engage and one called Staging Change funded by Esmée Fairbairn and Paul Hamlyn Foundations, very importantly, which enabled us to build these sort of much deeper long term relationships with a number of venues across England.
So we worked with Leeds Playhouse, The Albany in London, we worked with the Gulbenkian in Canterbury, worked with Square Chapel in Halifax, we worked with Z-Arts in Manchester. I'm missing one, Northern Stage in Newcastle, I knew it was somebody really important, and we worked with them over four years looking at kind of really bespoke development opportunities that were all about improving inclusion and access for people with a learning disability.
We looked at that from the perspective of artists and artist development. We looked at it from the perspective of audiences and audience development. We also looked at it around participation and there was some fantastic learning from that project. You were deeply involved, so I know that you know this and some really interesting ideas. We as a company, we learnt loads. It's definitely influenced us in a number of ways. So, for example, we developed and we've introduced and rolling out currently, access riders across the whole of the staff team, including artists obviously. And that came out of a discussion around how we understand each other and how people work together and how we all understand that we all are different and we all have different needs and actually, rather than simply identifying that as being something that's connected with learning disability or autism, actually we all have different ways of learning and communicating and taking in information.
So, I think there's definitely some interesting things happening and there’s definitely signs of commitment. I think more broadly, one of the things I kind of observe at the moment, is we're all rebalancing again after the impacts of the COVID pandemic, which obviously have been huge and deep and widespread across the arts sector as a whole. And I have a bit of concern personally that we are not seizing the opportunity and all the learning that we had. The COVID pandemic was awful. It was dreadful. You know, people with a learning disability and autism were among the worst affected by the pandemic. Medically, practically, in terms of alienation and isolation and all of those very, very critical factors. So, I'm not into playing that at all.
But I do think that the COVID pandemic also showed us that you can do things differently. Certainly, for Mind the Gap as a company, it helped us really focus and connect, not just with the individuals who were immediately within our network, but also thinking about the learning disabled and autistic community more broadly and the rollout of our Creative Doodle Book project, which is a practical workbook that is about stimulating creativity that was specifically designed with and for learning disabled and autistic artists.
We distributed and activated over 3,000 copies of that book during the pandemic. And I don't think that would have happened if we hadn't all had to rethink how we do things. So, I want us, in terms of where the differences are, I want us to not lose that experience and that learning and that knowledge. That actually there are, if you think about things in a very lateral way, and really think about individual needs, it's very possible to do things differently.
And I'm not just talking about online access. I mean, online access was actually very valuable and very important for a lot of people, not just people with disabilities, but just that ease of connectivity. Again, I realise that not everybody has access to a computer or a sound Internet connection. So, you know, again, a mix is needed but I think that's what I'm arguing for that actually let's not just all go back to doing things exactly the same as we did them before.
Paul Wilshaw
Yeah, I totally agree with you on that. I mean, a prime example, the We Shall Not Be Removed campaign that got set up, which really had a real massive movement saying that we're not going to be left out of these conversations we are still here. We want to get our voices heard. I was lucky enough to do one of the discussions on that, but also realising a lot of the time that learning disabled voices weren't being heard in massive conversations and this is something that has been a real problem.
I think we are still catching up with the arts sector in general and it is so important that learning disabled people are being leaders in this and really talking about the issues that matter to them, because that's the only way that the mainstream will understand what is going on in people's lives. Let's make it better because if you see yourself on TV and in theatre, and in radio you're not excluded. And that is so important because I think the pandemic did exclude a lot of people.
Julia Skelton
Yeah, and I think picking up on what you've said around voice and presence and that's definitely something that Mind the Gap is trying to respond really directly to. We've made some really significant changes in the way that we support and develop our artists and creating more opportunities for individual work, more opportunities for looking at what kind of support ideas need for development, what are the skills, what's the knowledge, what's experience that’s needed for learning disabled artists to get into those places and spaces where actually they do have their voice.
Paul Wilshaw
Has there been any barriers to that?
Julia Skelton
Well, yes, plenty I think. I mean one of the key barriers that still exists is that so many funding and fundraising opportunities are so fundamentally inaccessible to the vast majority of people with a learning disability and, you know, complex online processes, complex, lengthy, very jargon filled application processes. I think the wider trusts and foundation sector is really trying to be very proactive in looking at different ways of accepting information from people, so not just relying on big, long written documents for example. They're still underpinned, I think by a kind of set of values and a set of assumptions which still are fundamentally very inaccessible.
So, I think there's a real need for change in that. And I think we need to keep pushing and keep arguing for change in that because, while learning disabled artists are still very interdependent and needing to collaborate with people who have the skills to do those long, complicated applications, there's always a risk then that people are not actually quite getting their point across, are they? Because different communication methods have different strengths and weaknesses. So, I think that's again, that is definitely an area where we need to see change and we need to see not just tinkering around the edges. We need to see fundamental change and, really, more trust. I think one of the things I would identify and thinking about, you know, how you get and receive and deal with money is that you've got to trust people that they can make good decisions.
Paul Wilshaw
Talking about positives around trusts and funding of artists. Some of our artists have recently in the past received DYCP, which is Developing Your Creative Practice and I think that fund is really fundamental on our artists getting their voices out there and learning new skills, which is going to progress the industry so much.
Julia Skelton
And all credit to Arts Council on that one for recognising that actually, not just in the field of learning disability and autism, but across the broader sector that this kind of funding support to kind of get an idea up to the stage where it can be kind of activated into something that goes out into the public domain. And yeah, as you say, we've had some notable successes and that's absolutely fantastic. And hopefully on a positive note, that is the starting point to seeing more artist led, artist delivered, artists really making all of their own decisions around who they collaborate with, how they develop their work, where it's seen, who they're targeting as their audiences and so on.
Paul Wilshaw
Thinking about DYCP, I was wondering, what do you think about representation on our screens and theatre for actors with learning disabilities and autism at the moment?
Julia Skelton
I think there's still some way to go in terms of representing the full range and depth and breadth of people with a learning disability’s talents and experiences and knowledge and skills. There has been positive progress. We are definitely, at Mind the Gap, we definitely get more inquiries than we ever have done about casting opportunities, broadcast opportunities. We've recently collaborated with a couple of companies, 509 Arts here in Bradford and Animikii, a national touring company where Mind the Gap artists have been commissioned into pieces of their work, which has been absolutely fantastic.
And just this week we've had the BBC in doing some audition workshops for a presenting role. So, there's definitely, you know, things are happening. I see, though, that a lot of that representation is still very stereotypical. And quite often the question we get asked at Mind the Gap is, oh, you know, do you have somebody with Down's Syndrome with a playing age of 25 to 35 to take part in a medical drama?
And it's like, well, why? Why are you asking for a specific learning disability like Down's Syndrome? You know, does that relate to the, to the actual character in the part? And quite often the answer is no. We just thought it was the thing to do, you know? So, I think the knowledge and understanding around learning disability is still very narrow in those who are commissioning, particularly in broadcast sector, maybe slightly less so in theatre.
I'm going to put that question back to you, Paul, because obviously, as well as working for us, you also work at Leeds Playhouse, maybe say a little bit about that in that role. But you're obviously very much working in another capacity as well around representation so, where do you think it's at?
Paul Wilshaw
I think that we need to help make sure that people understand more about disabilities and learning disabilities in general. It's great and positive that the BBC, that they actually came to the company rather than us having to always travel down to an audition down in London or Manchester, and actually getting the producers and directors and casting directors to come actually to the company, it gives them a chance to see a whole range of actors.
But my problem I do have is that I get fed up of having to see people with a learning disability having to play the pity character or the hero character or having to play up their learning disability. If a person's got a learning disability, they have a learning disability, simple as. The industry is getting better, I do want to state this because I think it's important, but there is so much that still needs to be done.
Julia Skelton
And I think one of the ways in which we affect change on that is by creating more opportunities for people with a learning disability, not just to work in those kind of get cast, go in, do a turn, go away again is about more exposure and more experience of working alongside people with a learning disability in all sorts of ways.
You know, whether that's as you know, in terms of, people being in the office, doing different elements of that kind of work, people being involved behind the camera, behind the scenes, in production. I think that's where we need to continue to try and affect positive change, because the more people have exposure and experience, the more people who go, well, actually it's really no different working with somebody with a learning disability or autism, as it is working with anybody else, it’s just sometimes you need to think about how you break down information, you need to think about communication, you need to think about how somebody does their best work and takes on and takes on information and takes on learning.
But that's just good working practice in my view. It's not anything to do with specific to learning disability and autism, and I think that, you know, it's pushing that and getting more and more of that exposure and more of that direct experience for more people. That's how we'll affect change.
Paul Wilshaw
I totally agree and earlier we said about access riders, and I think that's a really prime example of what access riders actually do. And at Leeds Playhouse, I actually worked with our artistic planning team on them creating their own access riders and that was really interesting about how much that they said it helped them to explain to their colleagues what support they needed.
So it can't just be for people with learning disabilities or disabilities in general. It should be across your whole workforce. So that they can actually show people what support they need to make sure that they do their best work. And there are templates out there around access riders, and yeah! You don't have to be disabled to ask for help.
Julia Skelton
Yeah, I think Unlimited have created a sort of a guidance sheet for access riders, that's really good. And there are, you know, a number of companies kind of doing it. There's also been some really interesting and valuable work around working with artists of colour and, and how we work in anti-racist ways. And so, there's lots of resources around.
And I think one of the things I would argue for always is that it's the process itself. It's the process of asking those questions of yourself and asking those questions of others that actually makes you think about things in a different way. If you just take something off the shelf and you just kind of go, oh, we're going to tick a box and we're going to kind of do this because, you know, somebody said, this is a good idea to do it, then it's never going to get embedded.
What you need to do is really live that and really, really think about it and really think about the change that you need to make. And again, I know that's something you've got real direct experience of working as Agent for Change, at Leeds Playhouse as part of the Ramps on the Mood project. You're kind of working across the whole team, aren't you?
Paul Wilshaw
Yeah. My whole point of the Ramps on the Mood project is not just for me to come in and create the change, it's for the whole team to actually create the changes. It's exciting being the Agent for Change, at Leeds Playhouse. We've just created an introduction to directing, writing and producing course, which we had our sharings and that was just amazing to work with professional actors, but also seeing new talent come through.
And that meant so much to me because I'm going to say it on this podcast, I'm fed up of people keep saying that I might be the only learning disabled theatre producer out there in England. So, I want to equate these opportunities and that's what Ramps on the Moon has afforded me to do.
It also, every year, goes to a theatre and one of the Ramps on the Moon partners works with that theatre to create a show. This year’s show is from Sheffield Theatres, and it's Much Ado About Nothing. And all the time you work, the cast are made up of disabled and non disabled characters. It's just a brilliant opportunity to see work that's being done.
Julia Skelton
And I think that sort of is our experience as well, that you need to think about the whole process, not just who you are casting. You need to think about the choice of material that you make. You need to think about how that material is developed and adapted for audiences. You need to think about how that's going to create the conditions for every performer to do their best work, but also how that's going to be communicated and understood and experienced by the audience.
So I think it is a real challenge. And I think, you know, there's again, there's no magic set of ingredients that you can just readily put together and everything will be perfect. I think you have to accept with developmental work that's about trying to affect positive social change, you really do have to think about every element of your process and whether you are doing it in the most inclusive and accessible way. And it's almost that that's really the key to change is about that kind of whole process and a whole kind of system change rather than just going, oh, I will tinker around the edges of this bit. You know, or we’ll cast a learning disabled person in this bit part character and then we'll go, we'll tick a box and go, oh, yes, we've done our bit for learning disability inclusion and it's, well, no, you haven't actually, all you've done is reinforce negative stereotypes.
So, let's have a look at this again and let's take it apart and put that back together again. And I think those conversations are happening. I would like to see them be happening more frequently. I'd like to see them happening in more places and there to be more accountability, I think around those processes and things. I still feel that learning disability and autism still feels quite marginal too, and that people can still say, this is a bit of a generalisation, but I think there's still areas where certain practice and certain processes are still kind of, well, they're OK because it's only that is very much on the margins, whereas if it was in another area of disability or another area of where you're looking to involve and take positive action to include people, I think there are things which wouldn't be acceptable in other areas that still acceptable in the field of learning disability and autism. So, I still think there's quite a long distance to travel.
Paul Wilshaw
Let's go on from that and our artists and the amazing work that has been created by them, by people like Daniel Foulds, he created Bradford: A Hidden History and is just about to go on his DYCP of a show called In Neither Camp. We've got Alan Clay, who done his own project Skip Rap. We have JoAnne Haines who has done Colourful and was part of the first in 2018 I think it was the Beyond Festival.
These are people that have so much skill and so much talent and Mind the Gap, I personally think, has had a major impact in their careers but it also shows the talent that we have. My final question on all this is Bradford’s now got City of Culture and I want to know, what’s Mind the Gap going to be doing for that and where can people start seeing Mind the Gap’s work?
Julia Skelton
So yeah so, it's very exciting to be doing this podcast on the back of the fantastic news that Bradford is City of Culture 2025 and it has big implications for us. So we are kind of, just looking forward to 2025 first, and then coming back to the here and now.
So, we've got kind of two linked ambitions around Bradford for 2025. One is to develop a new piece of outdoor theatre performance that's really created with, and of, and for the people of Bradford. So, we're looking at connecting with other artists and other organisations and groups and individuals across the whole of the community to create a new large scale piece of work, is the current plan, because that's where we've had great success with projects like Zara in the recent past. And then we’re also developing an international element to the programme where we are continuing developing our connections with our Crossing the Line international network, which involves around six or seven different companies, mostly from Europe. And we've had long term relationships with a number of companies like the l’Oiseau Mouche in France Moomsteatern in Sweden, Teater Babel in the Netherlands, the fantastic Blue Teapot in Ireland, and a really interesting company Theatre 21 in Poland.
So, we're, currently working to develop an international festival program, building on the success of the work that we did in 2027 … 2017 sorry on the Crossing the Line Festival, and the work that we've done more recently through Creative Europe and Erasmus funded projects. So, we're kind of working on the very local and on the international scale and we're looking at how we can connect those and bring those together.
So that's now going to be a really kind of key focus for our work. And at the moment we've just launched our new festival touring piece Leave the Light on for Me, which explores the theme of climate change and what we do about it from the perspective of people with a learning disability and autism that's about to go, it's just launched in Bradford, and we're about to go on a national tour, check our website for details, we're going to various places. We’re down to the Unlimited Festival in September and in between times we're in London and Newcastle and Holmfirth and Deershed Festival in North Yorkshire. So, we're going to quite a few kind of different spaces, oh, and Unity Festival in Cardiff in a couple of weeks.
So, it's great to be out on the road again with a piece of work. It's a bit of a sort of starting, a jumping off, point really for thinking about how we are a sustainable and environmentally conscious producing and touring company. So, I think we've got a really exciting kind of few years ahead of us as indeed the years behind us have been very exciting.
But it feels like a really kind of, it's another one of those new chapters I think in the company. Obviously, we're all learning to live with the impacts post-pandemic. It's still having very widespread impacts on the arts sector and performing arts sector and individuals and so forth. So, I think we've still got a lots to take on board to ensure that we do things in the way that the best way that we can. But yeah, it feels like we've got another kind of a nice kind of focus in the form of Bradford 2025, just to help us kind of shape and think about some of those things.
Paul Wilshaw
Yeah, that definitely does sound exciting, and I can't wait to see what we're doing next. And, thank you Julia for being the first guest on the Mind the Gap and Disability Arts Online podcast.
Julia Skelton
Thank you very much, Paul. It's been an absolute pleasure. Great fun to have a chat with you.
Outro
A big thank you to Julia Skelton and Paul Wilshaw from Mind the Gap. Please join us next month when Senior Editor of Disability Arts Online, Colin Hambrick, chats with Emma and a lived experience partner of the Trussell Trust on food poverty and its impact on the disability community.