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The Factory Floor is hosted by the three co-founders of Conversion Factory, the marketing agency at the forefront of SaaS growth, marketing, and tech trends. Episodes are released on Twitter one day early, @coreyhainesco.
Every other week Corey, Zach, and Nick break down what’s working right now in SaaS marketing, share real-world lessons from the field, and give you the strategies you need to outpace the competition.
You can also find us on YouTube, X, and everywhere you listen to podcasts!
Don't fall behind. Subscribe. Like. Drop a comment. Or not. The ball is in your court.
Nick Loudon (00:01)
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the factory floor. ⁓ Today we are gonna be talking about something quite amazing. I am joined by Corey and Zach. How are you guys? Thumbs up in the chat. Low key. Muy bien, si, si bueno. ⁓ Okay, so we are gonna be talking about something that I think is pretty near and dear to each of us, which is the fantasy world of Lord of the Rings. But we're only gonna do that through the context of
Corey Haines (00:13)
Muy bien.
Zach Stevens (00:14)
Bueno.
Nick Loudon (00:29)
what we can learn about marketing and branding and design. And I'm going to say world building, which is kind of the, feel like the linchpin. So I don't want to, I don't want to spoil it. But the reason we're talking about this is because the 25th anniversary of Lord of the Rings, I think, is it the whole series or the first one? Yeah, right. Cause 2001 it's in theaters now. And Zachary over here went
Zach Stevens (00:48)
No, just the fellowship.
Nick Loudon (00:55)
and saw in theaters and I'm sure his creative brain was just flowing with creative juice. we're gonna talk about that juice today. No, I guess I wanted to ask Zach, like was there a particular moment or thing that when you were watching that you were like, that happened and I was like, all this stuff started to click.
Zach Stevens (01:18)
Well, I'd had the thought before when watching the movie, particularly about the types of cinematic tricks they use to keep interest. And I'll get into that because it's one of the points. But then as soon as I realized that, was like, there's a lot of other stuff in here. Maybe I should pay attention and try and keep mental notes of other things that we could take away from it. And I did. So they're all in here.
Nick Loudon (01:41)
Okay, sweet. Okay, well, let's get into it. I just wanted, like my first thought when you had mentioned this was when you talk to somebody about a particular franchise that they like and they're like, well, have you read the book? And I'm like, no, I haven't read the book or yes, I have read the book. And those people tend to be the largest of fans of franchises and with really good franchises like Lord of the Rings, the people who love the book also love the movies.
They love the games, like they love everything because maybe they started at the, at the, you know, the source material. ⁓ but it's almost like the more you can engulf yourself and then wrap yourself in the world that is that thing, the more you enjoy it. And I feel like there's probably a lot of things that translate that into marketing. Like if you're, this is kind of a dumb example, but
Like the more context, the more information that you have on your website, the more of a story you can tell, the more information that is explained about what the company is, what the product is, you know, that all kind of feeds into that. Did you read, did any of you read the Lord of the Rings books?
Zach Stevens (02:58)
I did not because I had already seen the movies and it was really difficult for me to read the book and feel excited about it. I contrast reading Harry Potter when I was a kid. I read those before I saw the movies and so I was actually engaged. Same thing with Dune. You I read Dune before I went and saw the movie. Which I think made it, I can't read a book that I already know how it ends. It's just, I don't find it exciting at all.
Corey Haines (02:59)
I haven't.
Nick Loudon (03:28)
⁓ Do you think that this topic is part of what contributes to the like, it still holds up, like, you know, people are like, that that movie still holds up or that one's aged like, like milk, it looks terrible. ⁓ I feel like that same idea kind of fits into this discussion. Am I crazy?
Zach Stevens (03:50)
No. ⁓ I have some very specific things in here that are like, that's a good idea for Mark, like a good concept or principle for a designer or marketer to adopt. wasn't necessarily about the filmmaking and the gravitas of making a really good movie.
Corey Haines (03:50)
Yeah, like the timeless principles, the essence basically. Yeah. Yeah, the through line.
Nick Loudon (04:14)
Okay, well then what's what was your biggest takeaway was the number one thing then for you?
Zach Stevens (04:19)
Well, why don't we just go through the points? Cause I have them listed out individual. Okay. So the first one is this is a marketing one that I took away, which is more context equals more belief and investment. This is similar to something that Corey repeats often, which is long form copy and more in depth copy tends to convert better.
Nick Loudon (04:22)
Great, go through the first one.
Zach Stevens (04:44)
And I realized this because the version that I saw, and I didn't know this until I got there, was the extended version. And I hadn't seen the extended version of Lord of the Rings in a long time, ⁓ because it is an investment. But there's a lot of really good information in there that you then you get a better understanding of the world and you can really lose yourself in it. There's things like.
I think they cover a lot more in depth the moral weight of the ring and how coveted it is. There's a scene where Boromir tries to actually take it off of the pedestal when they're in Rivendell, and then Gandalf calls in the Black Speech and makes them go away. so you get these moments like that where you really understand how heavy something like that is, the core villain that they are facing. There's some things that are given, like some solutions that are given to
or just like the equivalent of features that are given to members of the fellowship that didn't have previously, like the light of Elendil, which is given to Frodo, which is covered a little bit. There's Aragorn's knife that he uses to, later on in the movie, a new bow for Legolas, and it's not covered unless you watch the extended edition, or even things like how does Gollum get from Moria to...
finding ⁓ Sam and Frodo in the next movie that's covered in this one because he floats down the river with them.
The marketing parallel here is that I think that you uncover a lot more than you anticipate by going deeper than omitting some information. It's important to convey it in a way that still doesn't take you off base from the core story, but you can uncover a lot more with the extended world building. It's also why you get things like why we exist sections. A lot of founders think that's kind of silly, but we think they're really important
as adds an emotional investment and some of the background to why you are a good person to trust solving this problem.
Corey Haines (06:52)
I feel like maybe another way of putting this is assume your audience is smart. A lot of people assume their audience is dumb and they try to dumb things down and simplify and make it shorter and make it easier to understand. And it's not that you want to make it overly complex or like, you know, hard to understand so that only a certain elite type of person could, you know, whatever, but assume that they're smart.
don't try to dumb things down or spell it out for them. Like give them everything that they need in order to paint the full picture of what story you're trying to tell them.
Nick Loudon (07:28)
Yeah, they're, it's so funny because my wife and I are watching through the office right now. And there's a scene in season eight when Dwight is like about to launch the Sabre store. Do you guys remember this? And he's like fighting for the VP job and he's like giving this presentation in front of everybody. And he's like sick and he's just lying from the cuff and he doesn't know what's on the slides. And he's like, consumer have retail consumer habits. And he's like, all the thing you need to know is that consumers are mindless lemmings. They don't know what they want. And then he like clicks the slide. It's like,
consumers are well informed and consumers are smart. he's like, they, next slide. And he just like moves on to the next one. So it's funny when you said that, was immediately when I thought, ⁓ I think that is true. They are like obviously smart. One thing I ⁓ was thinking, Zach, when you were talking about, ⁓ about like kind of the depth and how far you go into something can help convey the value of that thing. ⁓
Corey Haines (07:59)
Yeah.
Nick Loudon (08:24)
I feel like this is potentially a pitfall for people with like fairly complicated products. Like you don't want to try to explain every single deep, dark intricacy of your product on your site. like, there's a lot of products where all the information that is available about that product doesn't even really fit on the site. And that's kind of like, that's your, ⁓ your book, you know, version.
And then if you move a step up, your marketing website can be like your movie, which is I'm taking all the core most important things and all the context that's the most important for the story goer to understand and presenting that on the site or presenting that in your marketing material versus like having a, what's that? The book, what's like the history, Lord of the Rings history book.
Zach Stevens (09:14)
Some really. Yeah.
Corey Haines (09:14)
So I'm really in.
Nick Loudon (09:15)
Yeah, like Simirillian
doesn't add to the more context, is more belief so much when you're doing, taking things from, guess, from a marketing standpoint, I guess. Is that?
Corey Haines (09:28)
Right, it's just like
pure exposition versus storytelling.
Zach Stevens (09:31)
Yeah,
exactly.
Nick Loudon (09:32)
Exactly.
Yeah. Okay, Zach, your next point is abstract versus literal. Walk me through it.
Zach Stevens (09:38)
This was the moment where I started taking mental notes because I thought I didn't recognize how attentive Peter Jackson was when he was choosing the shots and then the rhythm that's created between them. As far as jumping back and forth between what I would...
put into two buckets of abstract shots and then very literal shots. So an abstracted shot would be something that's like not really, it's not like they're focusing on a character, kind like the way that we are now with the talking head and you can actually see, there's not really anything going on that's of significance, but it's instead zooming in very close on things like, the scene that I remember in particular is at ⁓ Weathertop when the hobbits are being.
surrounded by the ringwraiths and it zooms in on the ringwraith's armor and his gloves. His armored gloves as he's clenching his sword like this and it's just his hands and you get this feeling of like, oh, he's a very bad person. And you don't even have to see his face. You can't see their face, but you can't, you don't even see the whole figure and you understand that they're, they're bad. But then it goes back and forth between looking at the hobbits. We could see all of them together. There's a full picture versus something
abstracted and it repeatedly jumps between those kind of rhythmic shots and this is something that we do all the time in design. like this is why you vary your column amounts between sections so that you have visual interest and it's a I think it's a good reminder of
vary up your, like the whole canvas. Focus on something really big and then a bunch of other things that are really, really small visually. This is why we tend to move between, like we'll have four columns all with icons and text, then we'll have a big picture above it that helps describe what a product is and creating that visual rhythm is done through a similar means of having stuff that's really narrow in focus and the things that are somewhat out of focus or a little bit bigger.
Nick Loudon (11:44)
⁓ Do you feel like, Corey, do you feel like that idea maybe has a through line into copy potentially, like bigger, broader sweeping understanding versus like very tight, narrow, like problem, problem A plus problem B equals solution C. Like, is there a contrast there?
Corey Haines (12:04)
yeah, mean, and like good copywriting, just good writing in general has a lot of rhythm and cadence and variability in it. Think about the difference between reading through it like an instruction manual when you're putting together your Ikea furniture or even like, I don't know, a Lego set or a lamp or something versus, you know, reading a Hemingway book, for example. There's techniques where, you know, you're layering and a couple words,
a short sentence, a long sentence, a short sentence, a couple of words. And now it kind of creates almost like this wavelength where when you're saying it, it sounds poetic because it does have a certain rhythm and cadence to it. Now we don't, not necessarily like counting syllables or like rhyming every other, ⁓ every other line, but there is a rhythm and a flow to
the copy, especially the way that you're writing that on the website. ⁓ This is one of those things where it's like, you don't want to go overboard and go into the clever over clear territory. We want to steer towards the clear over clever. ⁓ But on the website, the same way that you present that ⁓ visual interest in complexity, where you have the variability of different sections, that should be represented in the copy as well, where like hero section, one big statement.
or question right below it. Now we have two contrasting columns. Then we have a couple like peppered back and forth. Then we might have a how it works section where it's, you know, something, something short, something long, something short, something long, something short, something long, so on and so forth.
Zach Stevens (13:40)
form.
Nick Loudon (13:47)
Yeah, it's about attention. Sorry, go ahead, Zach.
Zach Stevens (13:50)
No, that's good.
Nick Loudon (13:52)
What was your next set? think the third one the contrast without red
Zach Stevens (13:56)
Yeah. So one of the things that I've realized as we've been designing a lot of websites is we were big fans in that primer section of how your life sucks now and then how your life could be better. ⁓ or if you're doing some like a competitor comparison. And I think the default that most founders will go to is just make that all red X's red X's all over the place, even though red is
completely outside your color palette. And it's gonna make that particular section of your site is gonna look really ugly. And we had tried a bunch of different versions of this. I think that we started in the same camp of ⁓ red being that color to show alarm and negativity.
And then we moved to trying to use a brand color that was contrast to something like, you know, with audience tap, I tried putting negative things in orange and then positive things in purple. But then that kind of created some problems because we were using a brand color of theirs to show negativity, which I didn't want to do. And then I came up with the better solution, which was what if I just removed the color entirely from the bad version and have it be neutral? And I think that this is also emphasized in the Lord of the Rings, how you can show the enemy without
having to be glaringly red. Instead you can just make things void of color and that is that creates the amount of contrast that you need between your brand colors and something else to convey the difference. And I noticed this same thing with the Hobbits. They get ambushed by the ring rates. The Hobbits are all wearing very warmly earthy folksy colors and all the ring rates are in black. So if you can just remove the color entirely whether that's making it all white or gray
or black, whatever kind of neutral is gonna work with your brand colors, that's a better way to show negativity without being like, know, the kind of scam type website design, just red Xs all over the place. It is a trope,
Corey Haines (15:53)
Kind of a trope at this point, right? Yeah. You
Nick Loudon (15:54)
Yeah.
Corey Haines (15:57)
know, it's so crazy is it's like really full circle because I'm just making this connection, but it feels so obvious to where like we've, we've talked about how we've based some of our methodology and like our website formula and copywriting style on old, ⁓ 2000s infomercials, you know, right? That same kind of template and formula of all the different things in the sequence, especially.
Zach Stevens (16:16)
Mm-hmm.
Corey Haines (16:23)
And it just clicked for me that a lot of times in those kinds of old infomercials, when they would show the old way of doing things, it would often go to black and white. And I was like, ⁓ yeah, like I totally forgot about that. Yeah.
Zach Stevens (16:31)
So if.
dude, you're right. Yeah, I, cause I
remember that with the, wasn't there a necklace one? And I, I remember that the thing, I also remember the egg one too, where it's like, it's a black and white footage of someone just cracking an egg. No fricking way. That's so cool.
Corey Haines (16:43)
Probably.
Yeah, it also has a kind of a
Nick Loudon (16:51)
Yeah.
Corey Haines (16:53)
another, another meaning or another angle to it could be like black and white, especially with our generation is associated with like old times or the old way. Yeah, the old way of doing things, antiquity, ⁓ you know, lack of technology, especially. Right. So I feel like that there's another, that's another parallel or another way you could think about it.
Zach Stevens (17:03)
and to be.
Nick Loudon (17:16)
I love that. I remember the nonstick pans one where you're like, oh, these just like things slide off and then it shows someone like trying to clean their pan in the sink in black and white. Oh, that's so good. I love that. Okay, let's talk about villains. The repeating villain theme. I am intrigued just by the title of this one, so I want to hear it.
Zach Stevens (17:16)
Yeah.
Corey Haines (17:20)
Mm-hmm.
Zach Stevens (17:24)
Yeah, with like eggs all over the place.
I'm actually gonna lump four and five together, because they're both about villains. We're in the villain track right now, making them devoid of color. Points four and five are a repeating villain theme, and then introducing your villain early. So I'm gonna start with introducing the villain early, because I think that that will tie into point four better. It's actually better to tell the story, go into the end, and then going back to the beginning to only start in middle.
Corey Haines (18:04)
You
Zach Stevens (18:07)
So introducing the villain early, this is one of the things that we know is super important in all story and it's also important in marketing. You have to give people a reason to want to make an action. And the only thing that causes that is pain. So pain is, it could be actually having a frustration or it could be the presence of a ominous lurking danger.
And Lord of the Rings does this really well by showing you and walking you through the entire story of Sauron and him losing the battle, but then the ring still lives on and exists. So you know that there is this looming threat going on all over the place. They do really good job there. They also do a really good job with Lertz, who is the leader of the Uruk-hai, the big baddie. He's the only one they focus on. Sorry, he says one word.
No, more words. made up very few words. Yeah, he says Saruman and then find the halflings. Yeah, exactly. So you know, you watch him literally get born and as soon as he's born, he straight up kills somebody. Like he kills one of his, one of the orcs. Yeah, his orc dummies. And so.
Nick Loudon (19:06)
Man flash.
Corey Haines (19:07)
This is a couple things.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Nick Loudon (19:12)
⁓ the half-legs. ⁓
Or commies.
Zach Stevens (19:30)
If he hadn't been introduced like that, it wouldn't have been as big of a deal for Aragorn to defeat him when they fight the final battle in Fellowship of the Ring, or for him to kill Boromir.
you have to introduce your villain early in order to give people a reason to be invested and want to see that villain vanquished and then it's a greater satisfaction when they are. You can compare this with Rings of Power because in Rings of Power there's this, like one of the final battles where this giant orc comes, what's the black elf's name?
Nick Loudon (20:05)
I don't know his name.
Corey Haines (20:06)
Adar?
Nick Loudon (20:08)
No, that's the, that's like, no, no, no. That's, he's the bad guy. Adar's a bad guy.
Zach Stevens (20:12)
Okay, well anyway, so Black Elf backs up into this big, orc and then the orc just throws him. And you're like, who cares? Because I don't know who that orc is, he's just some random orc on the battlefield and he should have snapped his neck from behind him. I have no investment in seeing this orc be defeated. But when you introduce them early, then it's way more satisfying when they are defeated.
The other thing I would suggest in this is having some kind of grander theme that you could tie your villain into, which is what is repeated throughout this movie is the battle between nature and industrialization. You see this with things like Arwen calling in the river to defeat the ringwraiths. The Uruk-hai are bred unnaturally. Unlike everybody else, there's the Ents versus the Machines. The...
⁓ The eagle comes and rescues Gandalf from the Iron Tower in Isengard. ⁓ Isengard deforests the entire area around them. So there is a bigger battle that's going on that you don't even realize is being won in small fights all throughout the movie.
Nick Loudon (21:24)
Yeah, it's so good. And the vision of hell in the future is when Sam sees that the Shire has just basically turned into this industrial, or whatever, sorry. He sees Sam in the vision, okay, I got mixed up. I have to you, I hate you. No, yeah, I totally agree. Sorry, Corey, were gonna, you looked like you were waiting.
Zach Stevens (21:33)
It's Frodo who sees that, but yeah.
Yes.
Corey Haines (21:39)
Hehehe.
Yeah, I was gonna say maybe it reminds me too of oftentimes in the storytelling, there will be like an exterior villain, enemy like, you know, Darth Vader or Sauron or Saruman or the ring Thanos, right? But then you often also have an inner demon, an inner villain inside the protagonist that kind of mirrors, kind of represents
Zach Stevens (22:01)
Yeah.
Corey Haines (22:15)
the outer villain, right? So like Harry Potter, he's the last Horcrux. Yeah, he has part of Voldemort. Luke is afraid of becoming like his father. You know, there's a lot of, you know, even Frodo with the ring, right? He ends up kind of giving into the temptation of the ring and wanting to, wanting to indulge in it, right? So you have like, the ring is this representation of power.
Zach Stevens (22:15)
⁓
has part of all the work.
Vader.
take power.
Corey Haines (22:43)
And Saruman is, you know, the, powerful force, ⁓ in a very similar way and in a way that's much less cool in marketing. ⁓ you know, you might have the exterior villain of a competitor or some force, ⁓ some law, something that you kind of paint as the bad guy. But then there's also like, Hey, within your organization, you need to fight.
Nick Loudon (22:54)
Yeah.
Corey Haines (23:12)
mediocrity. You need to fight ⁓ email overload. You need to fight. ⁓ Right. Exactly. Exactly. And so there's kind of like two versions of that two enemies. And when you bring up both of them, and you can kind of tie those together, I think that's when it becomes a powerful story. It's not just like, we're not just helping you slay the dragon, we're helping you slay your own inner demon to
Zach Stevens (23:17)
creative stagnation, whatever it is, disorganization. ⁓
see in the world.
Yeah, right.
Nick Loudon (23:40)
Yeah, it should be treated
much less like a murder mystery, like who's really bad here. It's like, no, it's obvious from the start that this is the thing that we're all fighting against. there's plenty of movies where it's like, we don't know who did it. And then at the end, you kind of reveal that. That's not the vibe we're going for. Like you'll even see that kind of, feel like with a lot of the sites that we build and a lot of the marketing material that is created by us is like early on homepage, it's like problem solution type.
verbage before and after type verbage. That's super good. ⁓ I think you had one or two more points, Zach, before we...
Zach Stevens (24:17)
I do,
have two more, so I'm gonna go to number seven and then I'll come back to number six because I didn't order these properly, but I'm gonna go through. My next point is that you get differentiation through a cultural context, so even within your own market, let's say that you are like an ESP, there's not a whole lot you can do.
that would make you palpably different from all your competitors. Like you run into this problem where like your competitors do a decent job at having a similar product to you. So the way that you have to differentiate is through details. And I think that a good way to do this is also through personality. And what made me think of this in Lord of the Rings was all the good guys.
are united on the same front of, you know, beating the bad guy, but they all go about it in a very different way. And some people I think resonate more with different cultures and races within this movie than others. And I have some examples like Gondor and Rohan are both ⁓ cultures, kingdoms of men, but even they feel very different. Gondor is very minimal in its presence. It's very noble and regal. There's a lot of stone. Navy is its main color. It's very
Institutional, it's a legacy brand. It's the one that you go to it's like we've been here forever We have all the records. We have this giant castle of Minas Tirith compare that to Rohan which has a little bit more of a heritage type brand it's far more rugged and human and It's derived from these Celtic knots There's colors that are different and they have this in different spirit about them that is really unique You know, they're the ones that chant death before they charge into battle and they're going for it. So it's a it's a different
type of personality and you have even greater contrast with things like the dwarves where their personality is very logical and industrial and precise and you see this with the way that like their armor is made and their weapons and the geometry the heaviness and the
You know, they're very dense and thick, kind of like, you know, it's one of Gimli's flaws as a character. And you have the elves that are very organic and flowy and luminous, and there's this element of luxury and refinement where, you know, even like their fighting styles...
Aragorn is very, I'm gonna get in and cut shit. That's what I'm going for. Where Legolas is doing like twirls, it's almost like ballet when he fights. And then you have the Hobbits that are the folksy, lifestyle, everyman type ⁓ brand of people. These are all good guys, doing the same, on the same mission. There's still a lot of difference and resonance between them for different types of people.
Nick Loudon (27:10)
I love evaluating the Brant, the Lord of the Rings Brant. So yeah, I'm just like thinking about all the visuals for all those and it's awesome. Did you identify with one of them when you were a kid? Like, aww, Gondor's sick.
Zach Stevens (27:14)
Hahaha.
Corey Haines (27:14)
Yeah
Zach Stevens (27:22)
everybody wanted to be legless when they were a kid. He's like, he's one, he's the one that slides down stairs on the shield and it's just, you know, taking out orcs, man. Like he's a bad ass.
Nick Loudon (27:27)
Not me, dude. I wanna be a Air Guard.
I had a personal affinity for Gondor myself for the race of men. That wasn't really it. But anyway, OK, give me them.
Zach Stevens (27:44)
That's super,
super, super nerdy dive in on that one. I don't expect there to be much follow up on that one. ⁓
Nick Loudon (27:49)
Okay,
give me number six. Wrap it up.
Zach Stevens (27:53)
This is actually 0.7 if we're going chronologically, I saved, I know, I know, I know, I know. I saved this one for last because it is my core ethos, which is great brands aren't created, they're stolen. And what that means is that it's the things that you experience and your ability to interject that into your product that will make it.
Nick Loudon (27:56)
Okay, you were the one who told me we were out of order.
Zach Stevens (28:13)
magnitude and only different than everybody else. You see this with the way Tolkien tells his story. I have some very specific examples of things that Tolkien experienced that influenced his writing. First, ⁓ places. ⁓ If you have ever been to Lauterbrunnen in Switzerland and if you stand at it at certain points and you look down and then you see this image of Rivendell in the movie.
it's almost identical. Like you get the idea of what he was going for when you read about it and when you see it in the movie, what he was trying to reminisce about when visiting a place in Switzerland. Same thing with the mountains. You look at the mountains in the Swiss Alps and there's no difference between the way that they look and the way the mountains look in the Lord of the Rings movies because it had such a profound impact on the topography of that environment.
There's even things like the British class system where you have these like different representations of people groups that are represented through the different races of Tolkien's stories, like the nobility, the lords, the generals, the peasants, the common folk, all those different people represented by the characters in his books and in his writings. Most specifically, you can even see like Samwise Gamgee is the epitome of a World War I soldier.
who all they wanted to do was have a family, be in a pub, eat good food, and yet they're called to go fight Germany in the trenches and do this, like find a version of themselves they didn't even know was there or possible. So there's a branding parallel there and a marketing parallel there where your experience matters and the way that you see this problem to be solved and how you want to solve it, the...
perspective you have and the emotional resonance that comes with that is invaluable as far as differentiating your product. So use it, because it works for movies, it could work for you too.
Nick Loudon (30:25)
think that's a good way to end. ⁓ Okay, last thing before we go. ⁓ Other than Star Wars, what is another movie or franchise that we should do a marketing deep dive on?
Zach Stevens (30:38)
Dune.
Nick Loudon (30:39)
Dude, Marty Supreme?
Corey Haines (30:40)
Mmm.
Zach Stevens (30:42)
Dune, Game of Thrones, Breaking Bad. ⁓
Nick Loudon (30:47)
Breaking Bad would be interesting. Yeah, sales led approach versus ⁓ product led growth. Dude, Breaking Bad is a great PLG story. ⁓
Zach Stevens (30:49)
I think that would be a really good one.
Harry Potter is also a good one.
Corey Haines (31:02)
Cocaine,
Zach Stevens (31:03)
Hahaha
Corey Haines (31:05)
original PLG or no myth, crystal myth.
Zach Stevens (31:07)
myth original PLG.
Nick Loudon (31:08)
Yeah. Well, his
was blue dude. was the purest. That's ultimate PLG. Interesting.
Corey Haines (31:12)
That's true. That was his growth loop.
People are like, what is that blue myth you have?
Nick Loudon (31:16)
Okay, yeah, think Breaking Bad's probably the next best one. All right, ⁓ thank you for joining. We will see you on the next episode and peace out.
Corey Haines (31:18)
That's why I will. All right.
Peace.
Zach Stevens (31:27)
Later.