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The HeadRush Podcast with Paul Frase and Corey Berry takes you inside the reality of Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy (CTE) through the lens of football and rodeo. With firsthand experience in two of the most punishing sports, Paul and Corey share their stories, the lasting effects of head trauma, and the fight for awareness and support.
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This is the Head Rush Podcast with Paul Freys and Corey Barry.
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Welcome to the Head Rush podcast. My name is Paul Freys and I played 11 years
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in the NFL and our co-host Corey Barry rode professional rodeo for nine years.
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And at the Headrush podcast, we talk about everything related to brain trauma
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and brain health and wellness. We talk about tees,
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uh, the closest you can be diagnosed to CTE while alive. It's traumatic
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encphylopathy syndrome. We focus on traumatic brain injuries sustained
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through repeated head impacts, RHI, and repeated blast exposures for our men and
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women who serve in the armed forces. We cover
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>> and
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>> yes,
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>> our first responders
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>> and our first responders as well. We cover how brain injuries can and will
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cause mental health issues such as depression, addiction, lack of executive
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function, memory loss, even suicide ideiation as well as degenerative
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neurological issues. Our mantra is how to cope and find hope. And we focus our
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energy on finding therapies and sharing hope through education and by raising
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awareness. And please like, subscribe, share if you will. It will help us reach
1:30
our goal of helping people uh suffering with traumatic brain injury. Corey,
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>> how you doing today?
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>> I'm doing well. I'm doing,
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>> you know, today we got a great guest. Our guest today on the Head Rush podcast
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has experienced a few concussions himself and was able to use his brain to
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become a doctor just like Noki. I mean
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>> Oh, that's true. Yeah. Ninsky played football, a wrestler hit his head a few
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times,
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>> right? Well, this one is Dr. Larry Carr. I think I'll just call him Larry, but
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Dr. Larry Carr is a former BYU graduate and a BYU Hall of Fame football player.
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He received a PhD from BYU in exercise physiology.
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Exercise physiology. What is that? I'm going to have to ask
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him what get a doctor as a exercise physiology
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and taught at the university level until CTE symptoms forced him to step down.
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Larry still holds numerous records at BYU, but they only got like 40 great
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players in the history of BYU. number one picks in the NFL draft. So, was
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Steve Young a number one pick?
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>> Yes. No, Steve Young wasn't a number one.
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>> He wasn't.
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>> No.
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>> Well, he signed he signed with the USFL.
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>> Oh, okay. He He would have Well, he would have been up there.
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>> Yeah. Larry holds numerous records at BYU, including most tackles per game. 12
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>> 12 tackles per game.
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>> 13.
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>> Don't Don't take that one away from him. I I know that game.
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>> Most defensive points per game, 23 and most career interceptions among
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linebackers is eight. He is third all time in career tackles at BYU, tal
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tallying 389 in just three seasons. And me and you were just talking about it a
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few minutes ago. 11 years professionally and you didn't even hit 300.
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>> No, no, I I I was closing in on it. Pretty darn close.
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>> He did it in three seasons.
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>> 30 30 games.
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>> So, in other words, you sucked
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>> compared to him. Yes.
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>> Dr. Larry Carr, welcome to the Head Rush podcast.
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>> Thank you, guys. Well,
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>> I I've got to I've got to admit, being a middle linebacker, you get to run all
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around. You're pretty limited in what you cover. Well, we you uh we we kept as
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a line defensive lineman, we kept two guys, you know, off of you, you know, I
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a guard and a tackle usually I was in engaged with and kept it off of the
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linebacker. So, but your number if you really calculate it in in uh you know,
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three in 30 games, 389 uh tackles. Um it's pretty amazing. And
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you're number three on the list of all time. BYU.
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>> Yeah, you were pretty good.
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>> I was I was productive. I was productive.
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>> You're number three of all time. I wonder what the most tackle.
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>> Well, do do you know the first two or have you
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>> I I think I think number one is like 408 or something. So, you're close.
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>> We were pretty We were pretty close. Yeah.
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>> All right.
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>> I just needed an extra game or so.
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>> Explain defensive points of 23 in one game. What What was that about?
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Well, it's a combination of a lot of things and and I'm sure people will
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argue that in terms of the validity, but you take the pass interceptions, pass uh
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deflections, uh tackles, assisted tackles, fumbles
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recovered, and fumbles created.
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>> I think that covers it. Keep track of that point tally.
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>> It exactly. Well, it it's a it's an honor to be speaking with you and you uh
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we we did talk about you actually used your brain after u your career. Tell
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tell us a little bit about your career. I mean obviously with no those numbers
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you you played professionally as well.
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>> I did. Um the interesting part about it is my
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brain played a large role in all of that. I I probably am the slowest
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linebacker that's ever played at BYU. I was not very fast. I I my 40 time would
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not even get scouts to look at me. Uh so I used to spend all my time in the film
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room watching film and I would and I would really understand the other
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offense. I would know the keys. I would know where the play was. with my speed,
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I couldn't hesitate even for a millisecond. I had to know exactly where
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it was going or else I'd get blocked. And that's and that's the nature of the
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game is it's it's mostly cognitive. Everybody looks at the combine and
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everybody looks at the physical aspect of it. But, you know, you have to know
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what's going on and and nowadays people the game is so fast that if you hesitate
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for a millisecond, three milliseconds, you're you're going to get blocked. it's
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a difference between making a play or not.
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>> So, my brain was important to me as I played. And then when I finished
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playing, I went into I went back to school, finished my degrees, went into
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uh my degree is actually a dual degree in exercise physiology as well as human
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physiology. And Corey, you know what physiology is?
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It's the way the body works, right? You know, all the all the all the workings
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of the body. Exercise physiology takes an understanding of the way the body
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works and then looks at how it adjusts to activity. Whether it's long-term,
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whether it's short-term, whether it's sprinting, whether it's lifting, whether
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it's running for a bus, you know, whatever it is, how the body adapts to
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that exercise, long-term and both chronic and acute.
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>> So that would be like becoming a trainer.
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No way above way above a trainer probably.
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Definitely.
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>> Well, a trainer. What do you mean a trainer? Like a
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>> like an athletic trainer.
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>> PT like an athletic trainer deals with injuries,
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>> right?
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>> No, I I didn't I don't I mean I took courses in that, but I could know I
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could not be a trainer. I could understand or know how to treat all the
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injuries and such. Uh, so it it's closer to maybe a strength and conditioning
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coach, although when I played they really didn't have those. Um, but it's
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kind of a higher level of that.
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>> Okay. Did you uh when you were talking about u you know the the exercising um
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you know did you I remember in psych psychology
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one of my f favorite things uh courses was psychopharmarmacology and they
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actually went through drugs whether they were prescription drugs or whether this
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this our one professor seemed like he was very well-versed in psilocybin and
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he was about 70 years old. But uh when you do the the physiology the exercise
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phys physiology did you have any courses on um you know
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anabolic steroids and how they affected the exercise uh any you know proteins
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and the your diet and stuff like that. Was that part of the
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>> nutrition was an important part of it? We had drugs and and drug interactions
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was a big part of it. um steroids and anabolic steroids was kind of new
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getting started. Uh I I I'm sorry to say that I I took anabolic steroids for a
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very short time, about 30 days, and they work. There's no question about it, but
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they're kind of scary. And so we didn't in in terms of um psilocybin or other
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kinds of drugs like that. We really didn't do a lot of research or dig into
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that much.
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>> Yeah, I I definitely am sorry to say the same thing. I I messed around with it in
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college. Vitamin S we called it, but and they were, you know, short stints. But
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interestingly, when I got in the NFL in ' 88, they started drug testing us and
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it was randomized. So, they literally effectively got a steroids, anabolic
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steroids out of the league for quite some time. I I might have there there
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was one or two guys in my 11 years that I knew that were they were messing
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around with the growth hormone. But anyway, I told all all the kids there's
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there's not worth it. anabolic steroids. There's not, you know.
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>> Well, from someone that's never done steroids,
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>> right?
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>> Let's get back to the task at hand.
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>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
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>> Larry, tell us about your youth sports and did you start playing at a young
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age? Any other sports you played?
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>> I played baseball and football. Uh, baseball was my first love. I loved that
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game. Um, but I played baseball through little league, through high school.
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didn't play any in college. Um played started playing tackle football
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and Pop Warner when I was about 10. So I played about 15 years all told. Uh and
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that's that's a that's an issue. That's a risk factor for CTE development, the
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years you played and the age that you started playing tackle football. So we
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know that it's cumulative over over the course of time. And we've kind of
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graduated from I Corey, you were talking I think it was you talking about um
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repetitive head impacts and and it it started with concussions. That's what we
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started talking about. That's that's when Concussion the movie Concussion
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came out in the 2014. Uh A League of Their Own talked about that. I think
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that was the name of it. regardless. Uh, but the concussion is just one that one
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one point along the along the scale of head injuries and it's when symptoms
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start to to show up and they've kind of held on to that concussion because they
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can they can measure it. You get diagnosed with a concussion that goes
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down in the in the books. uh and if they can show a decrease in concussions,
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diagnosed concussions, then they can say that they're improving the game. They're
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making it safer, so to speak. But early on, probably around 2018,
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uh there's a good study that came out of Boston University and McKe's lab where
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they where they showed that concussion wasn't related to CTE and they started
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to talk about that about repetitive head impacts.
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Uh but we know that that that's not the case now either. It's not it's not you
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don't have to hit your head for it to be a problem. Uh it's it's now changed to
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head acceleration events which means that just as you change momentum as
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you're going forward then all of a sudden you're going backwards or you
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fall backwards and hit your head on the turf. Uh that's a change in directions.
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It's not necessarily the impact. It's just the rapid change. And then the
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brain is kind of floating around in the skull and that just uh sloshes around in
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there. And so it doesn't take a lot. You ever seen a Formula 1 driver in these
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race car drivers, their heads are are shaken back and forth just for extended
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periods of time? Uh that's a problem. Uh the sledders on the on the Olympics and
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going down the mountain, their heads are getting hit, not necessarily impacting,
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but the brain is getting bashed around all the time. So
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it's it's more it's almost like the blast effects for veterans where it's
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not really hitting the head but it's changing the force or the impact is is
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of the force is changing the uh head's direction. So, I it it's it's a lot more
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difficult uh to control than just putting pads on the head or or a bigger
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helmet or whatever that that preventing it is not an option and that's not what
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they wanted people to believe over the last 15 years.
14:21
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14:25
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ambio.life. What's that saying? What was that
14:56
football player on the quite explosions? You could put a tank over your head.
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>> The Anthony uh he was the t he was the uh Notre Dame killer. Uh Anthony Davis,
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older gentleman. He says, "You can put a tank on your head. I don't I don't
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care." He said, "If you play this game, you're going to you're going to you're
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going to have brain damage. And I don't care if you put a tank on your head,
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you're not going to protect the the movement of of the brain." And and one
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thing with you and Dr. Ammon was talking about it a while
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>> the swish
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>> the swish because Corey with the rodeo the bearback bron rider it it was 12
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bucks in 8 seconds back and forth back and forth back and forth and you know
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it's he Dr. Raymond was talking about it was constant whiplash,
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>> right?
15:48
>> Yeah. And
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>> I wonder why I got neck issues.
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>> Well, not to say, you know, when when you hit the back of of the horse's butt,
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you knocked yourself out a couple times.
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>> I've I've only done that once. Okay. Well,
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>> and and yet we we believe that. We know that. We our research supports that.
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Other research has known it for 10 years. Yet, what do they talk about?
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They talk about concussions. They talk about we're controlling concussions. Uh
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it it just has very little to do with with the problem of brain injury in
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football.
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>> I don't care. And yet and yet you see these these covers, these caps on their
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helmets,
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>> guardian caps
16:29
>> throughout all Guardian caps. And I don't want to downplay them. I think
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it's something that they're trying to do. They think that it might uh let them
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sleep at night knowing they're doing something, but at the same time, you
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know, boxers put those caps on their head or those pads on their head, it
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doesn't do anything. It just keeps them from getting knocked out. So, you know,
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>> snake
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>> hardly it Well, it's I Yeah, I I can't disagree with that. There's been a
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couple of largecale studies about guardian caps. They don't really do
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anything practice. They don't hit the heads any any ways. Uh, nobody really
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wears them in the game. So, even if they did work, do what they think they're
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supposed to do, they wouldn't be doing much. So,
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>> I'm not a big fan of those. I think it's a waste of time. You know, you got to
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you got to figure out how to treat it. And before our research, there really
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was no other way to treat it.
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>> We're definitely going to get it. We're going to dive into the weeds on that.
17:32
So, um, so really quick, in your younger
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years, there was no concerns about getting your bell rung. Um, and
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>> no, I I was knocked unconscious a couple of times. There was many, many times on
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the field where I I lost a brief short-term amnesia where I didn't know
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what the signals were. I was spo I called us defensive signals. I had to
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get people to help me out. Uh after the game, I I didn't know what was going on.
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Watching films that it was like I'd never played the game. So, no, there was
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no concerns. If you were knocked out cold and brought over to the sidelines,
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as soon as you woke up, you were back in.
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>> Right. Right. How many fingers do you have? Do I have
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>> rodeo? And
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>> how many fingers you have? As long as you're No. As long as you're close.
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>> Right. Right. Exactly.
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>> In rodeo, you get knocked out. You just get knocked out. You come two and you
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get in the car and go to the next one.
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>> We don't have trainers or people saying, "How many fingers am I holding?"
18:43
>> Well,
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>> um, you've been very outspoken about CTE and
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head trauma. What drove you to reach out to Robert Stern and Anne McKe at Boston
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University. Tell us about that part of your journey.
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Well, uh, about five years prior to that, I kind of went down, uh, I had I'd
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not been my best self for quite some time. And, and I think that's what the
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case where a lot of people are. They say, "I'm doing fine. I don't have any
19:13
problems, but most people are dealing with it. They played a lot of football
19:17
in some way or another, their patience, their anger, whatever." And so it it it
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kind of hit me hard uh in my late 50s right around 2010.
19:29
Um where I went really really started to dealing with uh depression. I didn't
19:37
didn't know that's what it was. I was dealing with PTSD that I didn't know or
19:42
understand what it was. Things would trigger me big time. I was paranoid. I
19:46
was jealous. I was I just was really kind of in in really bad shape and I'm
19:54
fortunate that my wife stayed with me. Uh she did uh uh she's a wonderful
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person for that. But it's really it was hard for her too because it's not like
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you have a tumor where they could take an X-ray and say this is what's causing
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this behavior change. And it and it the my behavior changed kind of dramatically
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uh from from just kind of cranky, not wanting to be around people to to really
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in bad shape. And so I had to retire early. Um
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and we found ourselves in Boston. That's another story all by itself. I don't
20:30
want to really take up time now, but we were in Boston and we were bickering, my
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wife and I, and we had a particular bad uh argument one night. I was never
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physical. I've got to make sure that's clear. I was just I was just an
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emotional wreck. So I knew from my own research uh when I I was diagnosed with
20:51
severe brain damage about 2010
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2012 in that range uh from football. So I knew there was an issue there and we
21:03
watched concussion and we knew all about that and so we were it was really bad.
21:08
We were getting ready to go home because I just couldn't deal with what we were
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doing. And so I knew Anne McHugh was in Boston. I I emailed her not knowing what
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to expect. Uh but she responded, invited me in, and we spent about an hour and a
21:22
half with her. A great lady. She usually doesn't deal with actual athletes. She
21:27
deals with the families and the brains. Uh but she said, "It sounds to me like
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you've got this issue going on." Uh he she said, "There's nothing we can do."
21:37
She didn't offer psychedelics. She didn't offer
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uh oxygen. She didn't offer med more medication because there was nothing to
21:47
offer. People use these things, but there's really no standardized uh
21:52
treatment. So, she said, "Go live your life. You know, you look good, sound
21:56
good, be happy." And that didn't work.
22:01
>> So, so about two weeks later, we have another fight and I email Ann again
22:05
begging her, I mean, literally begging her for some help. And that's when she
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referred me. She referred me to two places. She referred me to Robert Sterns
22:15
who at the time was the route I really wanted to go in. He was doing a study to
22:20
try to diagnose to figure out how to diagnose CTE and living. But his study
22:25
required you to either play only college football or three or more years of
22:30
professional football. I was right in the middle of that. I played college and
22:33
less than three years. So, I didn't qualify and I was I was pretty upset
22:38
about that. But then she referred me to the VA. They were doing light therapy
22:42
research um with vets uh returning from the Gulf War and they were having
22:48
success and Anne McKe said they're having success with this. Is this sounds
22:52
like something you would like? And I said sure. And so she referred me to the
22:56
VA, Dr. Naser. Uh I entered her study as the first football player with potential
23:02
CTE. And that led to a to a pilot study what included four of us. And the
23:08
results were literally amazing. They they were really off the charts.
23:12
>> If you've been told it's all in your head, but deep down you know something
23:15
is wrong, listen closely. Brain fog, depression, anxiety, irritability, even
23:22
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23:32
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23:42
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23:48
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and discover if inflammation, not weakness, is holding you back. You're
24:00
not broken. You're unbalanced. and balance can be restored. So,
24:06
Robert's turn is is a friend uh that I I was involved with that with that
24:11
clinical trial uh trying to find bio biomarkers for CTE back in Boston
24:17
University and Bob Robert Stern was just a fanta he's a fantastic individual and
24:23
uh
24:23
>> he was he was he was awesome. He met with my wife and I uh and he right off
24:28
the bat the first thing he said is so tell me how often do you think about
24:32
suicide and I said every day you know and then the second thing he followed up
24:38
with he looked right at my wife and he said why are you still here
24:41
>> because most women don't don't stay around because it's just too hard it's
24:45
just too it's walking on eggshells it's frustrating it's they're watching their
24:50
husband change right before their eyes and it's not in a pleasant way. Uh, so
24:55
he was he was surprised. He wasn't surprised with my answer. He was
24:58
surprised at my wife's.
25:00
>> Well, that's kind of like my wife on the support groups that how they get on
25:05
there and I just want to leave my husband. It's getting too bad and all of
25:10
this. And my wife is like, "What about your vows? Doesn't that mean anything?"
25:15
>> Well,
25:16
>> you know, and everyone thinks my wife's an angel for sticking with me. We're
25:20
going on 28 years and you know and I'm sure some of these
25:25
wives have it worse than my wife just like
25:30
other people but
25:32
>> yeah I could totally understand Stern saying that because
25:37
>> that's how it happens
25:40
>> froze.
25:40
>> Yeah. So Ann an an suggested you see a doctor and she specialized in or
25:47
photobiomodulation the red light therapy. Is that what she was working
25:51
with? And you said um you unpack this for us. You said
25:56
there was a it turned into a fourperson study. But talk about that a Well, I
26:02
yeah, I I I met with her up in her office and she had been doing this with,
26:07
like I say, veterans from the Gulf War, and she had had been having some
26:12
success. She even had had some success with a few Alzheimer's patients. Uh, and
26:18
so she was really encouraged with this with this technology. And so I met with
26:23
her, she went over the the possible mechanisms. Uh, PBM is not a new thing.
26:28
I it's been around for 30 40 years. There's thousands of studies on it,
26:32
mostly animal studies and such, but there it's been around a long time, but
26:37
it doesn't involve a drug. So, so people don't know about it. They haven't heard
26:40
about it. They might have heard about red light therapy, which is much
26:44
different than near infrared EVM where they're very it's not all light is
26:49
equal. Let's let's put it that way. And so, I I like the physiology. I could
26:55
understand it. It sounded reasonable. She had some success. Um, I I was
27:01
desperate. Uh, that was the only thing the person the one person in the world,
27:05
Ed McKe, who knew more about CT than anybody else on the planet, suggested I
27:11
try. So, that's that's what I did. And the study involved six weeks of going
27:16
into the hospital three days a week and having these large lights put on my
27:20
head. Uh then they took before and after uh MRIs and neurocognitive tests in uh
27:28
to qualify for the study. Uh then I then they did post- test results after six
27:34
weeks. Then they went off it for six weeks. Uh did not anything did another
27:40
set of tests and then I went on a home device. I think you saw a picture of
27:44
that earlier on. Uh for another six or eight weeks I can't remember. And then
27:49
they did post testing for that. So I had a cycle of using it, not using it, using
27:55
it. Uh different different um devices but the same technology. Although the
28:01
second device was um more focused these it they had little uh lights that were
28:09
directed at certain parts of the brain as well as an interasal device which is
28:14
which we've sh which they've shown to be very effective in getting the base of
28:18
the of the brain and almost as much as the ones on the head. So that's a
28:23
patented device that that seems to uh facilitate synergize with the other
28:28
lights. So, I I went I improved tremendously the first six weeks. As
28:34
soon as I went off, I went right back down to where um I had started, which
28:40
was kind of discouraging for my wife. She was worried, did would I ever get
28:43
that back because she started to see my my improvements and then I went back on
28:49
the home device and the results were just as good. I went right back to the
28:54
improvements and emotion, my depression was almost down to zero. My PTSD was
29:00
significantly improved. Uh all my cognitive measures were improved
29:04
significantly. Uh the researchers were quite excited uh when they saw these
29:10
results. So ladies and gentlemen, if you zoom in
29:15
on me, this is what it looks like. This is the DO4
29:21
uh red light therapy. And I do have it on right now. I don't know if you can
29:26
see the red light. I didn't I cancel
29:28
>> I got my little battery pack
29:31
>> but uh this is the duo Ford and this is what you're talking about in the red
29:36
light therapy and I'm on my sixth week
29:40
>> and if you go to vite.com you can order one
29:45
>> you can I I want to hear and you you started getting into like a before and
29:51
after I uh tell us the before uh red light therapy and after red light
29:58
therapy or the PBM and and again you
30:02
>> well uh
30:03
>> oh
30:04
>> I know it's I know it's a a phrase it's used a lot it changed my life well it it
30:10
saved my life and I don't know that I would be here uh without it because you
30:15
know with my degree and my beliefs I I I never drank alcohol never smoked tobacco
30:23
never used drugs other than that little foray to steroids 50 years ago. But I've
30:29
never used drugs. I've never self-medicated, per se. I exercised my
30:35
whole life. I tried to eat well. I tried to get the snuff sleep. So, I did
30:39
everything that they tell you to do. Even now, uh if you go on the internet
30:45
and say, "What can I do to treat it PTSD? What can I do to treat
30:49
depression?" other than other than some kind of medication. They'll give you the
30:53
lifestyle changes, exercise, eat right, get enough sleep, try to decrease your
30:59
stress levels, go to therapy, do all this stuff. And none of it worked. I was
31:03
just going downhill. So to see the impact that this light uh near infrared
31:09
light therapy had on me personally uh
31:14
I I wish my wife were here to give her testimony of it because it brought me
31:19
back.
31:21
>> That that's powerful. So you've had ex exciting results uh from a a clinical
31:25
trial invi involving the BU football team at recently. Tell us about
31:34
that because you were sold on it. You started using it. Did Did you buy a a
31:39
home um device? Have Is that what you use now? Um
31:45
>> yeah, I I a new generation. I mean, Corey showed a version 4. I believe they
31:51
come out with new higher level technology every few years. But when I
31:56
got out of Boston, um, you see, before Boston, this was really, really
32:03
difficult for me to process because I grew up in a very abusive, a very
32:08
violent home. Um, and I and one thing that it stole from me was a lot of self
32:15
uh confidence and and and such in myself. Uh, so playing football and
32:20
succeeding in that brought a lot of uh joy to me. I mean, I loved the sport. I
32:26
loved the game. I love the recognition that I got from it. Uh, I love to watch
32:30
it. It it it just was such a great game. And then to go through this period of
32:35
time where not only myself, the way I was feeling, but you can see it on the
32:39
on the on the press. I mean, from 2010 to 2020, there were thousands of
32:46
articles on CTE. It would there many many articles about how football was
32:51
dying. Parents aren't taking their kids out of football. Is it going to even
32:55
survive? And so to see the game that I love uh steal my life from me, the
33:02
enjoyment of my life, it was it was terrible. It was just really really
33:07
hard. And so after Boston, when I got out of those studies and came back to
33:13
Utah, I thought, you know, I'm going to say football because my background, my
33:19
degrees, I I was following the research in it. They had not made any progress in
33:25
the research with with CTE or the prevention of CTE or the or the dealing
33:31
with head injuries. Uh they just there was nothing. They were trying to do it
33:36
with uh concussion protocols, changing the rules, um targeting, they were
33:44
trying to prevent it, which now we know was was a losing cause. Uh so when I
33:50
came back, it was just exciting to me. I was going to bring this technology uh to
33:56
the world, so to speak. So I the first person I talked to was Tom Holmo. He he
34:01
has four Super Bowl rings, physical coach and a player in the NFL. He was a
34:06
athletic director at BYU, highly recognized national athletic director of
34:11
the year. So I met with him and the first thing he said after I went through
34:15
all of this and and the thing is is when I came back I wasn't just the end of one
34:23
wasn't just me because I was backed with with hundreds and hundreds of of uh
34:29
peer-reviewed studies on the effects of of near infrared light and there was a
34:35
lot of studies also down from Brazil and and other places which showed
34:40
improvements in performance that they could affect the metabolism in the bra,
34:44
not only in the brain, but in the muscles and the mitochondria and
34:47
different ways the energy systems interact. So, I came to Tom and I said,
34:53
you know, pretty soon they're going to identify CTE in the living and then
34:57
what's football going to do? They better have an answer for it. So, uh he he said
35:02
it's too good to be true. Sounds like it's just too good to be true because
35:06
here we have something I was telling him could protect the brain, could could
35:10
heal the brain, uh, and improve performance in the players. And that
35:16
just was really hard to swallow at that point in time. But he kept talking to me
35:21
and over the course of several years, we met um I would I like to say every month
35:26
or two. Uh, we started off with doing a small study. I met I met up with a
35:31
neurossychologist at the University of Utah who was was interested in my story.
35:37
So together we we she kind of did some research on her own. Uh got some push
35:42
back from her department. She's in the medical school at University of Utah. Uh
35:46
they wanted to call it snake oil, placebo, whatever, because they didn't
35:51
they didn't believe it. Uh, but we did a study with firefighters, first
35:55
responders in Las Vegas, and we did a a small study of about 15 firefighters,
36:01
and the results were were very encouraging. They they followed the same
36:06
pattern as my results and three other football players results from Boston.
36:12
So, we saw a big increase in PE and decrease in depression, a big decrease
36:17
in PTSD, and that's a big problem for firefighters. I mean, they lose more
36:22
firefighters from suicide than they do from fires.
36:25
>> So, I mean, and they don't sleep. I mean, they're they're up constantly.
36:29
They're stressed, high level of divorce. I mean, it it's a tough life. But they
36:34
started seeing tremendous results, not only in the emotion, but in the
36:38
cognitive, in processing reaction. Uh, they come upon a an a a a disaster. And
36:46
every millisecond, every second counts for them. They have to process what's
36:49
going on. and and react to it and and decide the best course of action. And so
36:55
they they loved it. In fact, after the 10 weeks we did with them, uh they
36:59
didn't want to give their devices back. They refused to give them back because
37:03
uh they they all suggested that it was very very beneficial. So after that we
37:11
started we started a ex collision athlete study uh where we expanded the
37:17
testing to include MRIs and more focused on on um
37:23
performance cognitive performance measures and so we we had a lot of
37:28
football players ex-oot players they didn't necessarily have they needed to
37:33
be worried about their issues uh but there was some uh there was a three or
37:38
four women in the study. Uh several with um partner violent partner problems
37:46
where they would get hit a lot. Uh there was soccer players uh across the board a
37:52
lot of lot of there was a Olympic ski person in the study.
37:57
Uh but we showed just great results with that one. Again we looked at the 8week
38:03
study. uh we've been following them for about five years now and and we don't
38:08
have that data completed yet but it's looking very positive and again the same
38:13
pattern of change improvement in emotion improvement in cognitive measures uh
38:20
improvement in physical measures like strength and and reaction time so now
38:26
we've got some some real good ammunition not only myself I saw it in my in me
38:33
saw it in the firefight fighters. We saw it in the
38:38
We saw it in the um the exathletes. So now I'm starting to
38:45
talk to Tom and I saying we need to do this with BYU. We need to do this with
38:50
football players. It's not it's not enough to try to treat it after the
38:54
fact, but what if we can treat it and eliminate the problem right from the
39:00
source? So we had to that was not an easy thing to do because uh it was a
39:06
little before NIL so it was a little easier. It probably would never get done
39:12
today.
39:13
>> Uh we had to get approval from the athletic director. We had to get
39:16
approval from the athletic uh team, administrative team. We had to
39:22
get the team physician buy on. Uh the trainers to buy in, the head coach to
39:28
buy in. and and you guys know the the kind of money they're paying these head
39:33
coaches now,
39:35
>> who is going to allow their players to be messed with, you know,
39:39
>> who's going to allow them to disrupt their pattern, their their what they do
39:44
every day? Uh and certainly who's going to allow them to pick 15 people to be
39:49
using a sham device and 15 people to use a regular device. It was not an easy
39:55
goal. And like I say, I don't really know if we could get that study done
40:01
today, but the results are groundbreaking. And I don't use that
40:05
term loosely. It's historic. The we just got uh the MRI data published in the
40:10
journal of neurot trauma. It's it's a total sea change in the way football can
40:17
look at brain injury. Uh we have uh comparing this treated group to the sham
40:24
group. The sham group wore a headset that didn't work. The treated group wore
40:29
a headset three days a week, 20 minutes a day. And you guys know nowadays, they
40:36
don't hit hardly at all during the season. Uh practice time, they don't
40:41
hit. Spring ball, they don't really hit that much. They hit some, but not much.
40:46
Uh so the only hitting real full speed hitting they're doing is during the
40:51
season. That's when they're getting hit. And yet when we look at the brains of
40:55
the untreated group, the sham group, over the course of a season, their
41:01
brains were inundated with inflammation. It was it if you colorcoded it, it
41:07
looked like a rainbow. I mean, it it was all through the entire brain.
41:11
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41:17
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41:25
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41:36
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42:04
>> Can we show an image actually of I think from that study um the image of the the
42:09
Okay, I think we're looking at it right now.
42:12
>> Okay. The red at the top, that's a sham group. And red indicates more
42:17
inflammation. So you can see all the way to the far end of the spectrum, the dark
42:23
colored brick uh burnt burnt orange or red color. That's throughout the entire
42:29
brain. I mean, it's just it's not
42:32
>> And that ind indicates new inflammation.
42:35
>> That indicates new inflammation, not a carryover from the year before. That's
42:41
from from pre to post an increased in inflammation. And then the bottom brains
42:47
that increased less inflammation with the with the uh we actually found a net
42:52
loss of inflammation with the treated people. And they only wore it three days
42:56
a week, 20 minutes a day. And these results were so dramatic that the the
43:01
researchers took I mean these are researchers that are internationally
43:05
known. They've been doing this for 25 years. hundreds of peer-reviewed
43:09
publications. Uh they did not want to publish this right away. They they they
43:14
ran it through uh unbiased people. I mean, they're unbiased, but they ran it
43:19
through people that had no inkling of what they were doing. And uh they
43:24
actually had because of this, they got one neurossychologist to transfer from
43:29
New York, Mount Si to the University of Utah. She she called it snake oil when
43:34
first introduced. after she saw the results, she said, "I'm all in. I got to
43:38
see what this is."
43:40
>> Uh because it it it's so dramatic that it's really difficult for people to
43:46
number one believe it. Um because uh but they have to understand that these
43:52
researchers do not get paid from this company. They don't get paid to see to
43:57
say things. Uh they get paid by the research they do for grants and funding.
44:03
And if they if they were ever um c if they were ever did anything that
44:10
was underhanded uh or not accurate uh their careers would be over and it took
44:18
them almost a year to validate this and to feel comfortable enough that this was
44:22
true. Uh so I mean it it's nobody has ever shown these kind of results before.
44:30
>> Wow. and the and the need and it would but the great thing about it I mean it's
44:34
one thing to say that over the course of the season the football players that use
44:38
the light actually had a healthier brain they had no
44:43
inflamm no new inflammation and that loss they had no new uh axon damage
44:51
which the untreated group had significant axon damage as well as the
44:56
repair response in the in the uh in the brain which which attributed to some of
45:02
that to inflammation and other damage in the brain. And so I mean you've got you
45:07
basically you've got a player who by three weeks three three times a week
45:13
three times a uh a week for the course of a season uh for 20 minutes had a
45:21
healthier brain at the end of the season as well as that healthy brain improved
45:27
their performance. Their strength was better. Their reaction time was better.
45:32
Their cognitive scores were better. Their emotional scores were better. They
45:36
were better people. They were better sons. They were better husbands. They
45:40
were better football players. And you guys know as well as anything,
45:44
especially in rodeo, uh the difference between a a SOS so player and a allpro
45:51
is a matter of seconds. It's a matter of
45:55
>> it's just a half a second is the difference of
45:59
getting blocked and not being in the play and making a tackle. So, you've got
46:03
these things that it it's so obvious of the benefits of
46:09
this that I've had I've had people that that don't want to believe it because
46:16
they didn't know about it. They've never heard about it. So, it can't be valid.
46:21
And it's really too sad because they're playing with people's lives and putting
46:26
a pad on their helmet is not going to protect those people. Uh this will
46:31
protect them in my mind.
46:33
>> And so you know there's a question but before I ask this question I got another
46:38
question.
46:39
>> Yeah.
46:39
>> All of this is proven through BYU football players had studies done.
46:46
You've partnered with VI to do all this research.
46:53
>> Well, they they provided they provided the headsets. Uh they have not had any
46:59
involvement whatsoever in the research itself. This is totally unbiased
47:04
research from the University of Utah and and the University of Utah researchers,
47:10
they're on soft money. So they don't get paid a salary and then just fill their
47:15
time with research. They have to produce grants
47:18
>> and funding. And over the course of these seven years, we've done seven
47:23
studies uh including TBI studies, a stroke study, the football study,
47:28
exathlete study, uh some the first responder study, and a couple of others.
47:36
And we've had seven studies and all studies show the very similar pattern
47:43
improvements across the board. This improves the brain biology, the brain
47:48
physiology,
47:49
>> and it improves their performance, too. And there are no side effects. There's
47:54
no drug out there that can claim that.
47:56
>> So, I mean, it's it's really it's going to reach a tipping point at some point.
48:02
uh coaches, you know, people were suing the teams
48:07
prior to this uh for looking the other way, ignoring the dangers of of
48:14
football. But they really didn't know any better. I mean, it was kind of a
48:19
stretch to sue somebody that didn't know anything. But one time I was talking to
48:24
a university prof uh president and he he listened to this and he he was
48:29
interested and he said, 'Well, you know, five years down the road, they're not
48:33
going to come back and sue us. And I go, I I don't think so, but you know what?
48:38
If you don't see what you're seeing, if you don't take action on what you're
48:42
seeing, I can't say that ignoring this this health benefit and keeping it from
48:49
your football players or from your divers or from your uh rugby players or
48:54
any any one of a number of sports. I can't say that you're not going to be
49:00
liable sometime in the future for ignoring this because it's it's seven
49:04
studies over seven years on top of a foundation of uh hundreds of other
49:10
studies. It's it's hard to ignore this. You would really have to uh
49:17
I don't know what kind of person could ignore this to be honest with you. This
49:22
episode of the Headrush podcast is brought to you by the Patrick Risha CTE
49:26
Awareness Foundation. Their goal is to to spread awareness about the dangers of
49:32
RHI, repetitive head impacts, after losing their son Patrick to CTE. Sadly,
49:39
there are too many like Patrick that have lost their families, jobs, and
49:44
sometimes their lives. And this foundation is working hard to stop the
49:48
devastation then that can come from not protecting the brain. This foundation
49:54
provides parents of schoolage children with information about the dangers of
49:59
sports, concussive sports and activities which involve head trauma. They
50:06
advertise on social media, print media, and billboards. Please follow them on
50:11
Instagram, Facebook, and Tik Tok, and share their ads with others. And please
50:17
visit their website, stopct c.org, to find ways to help people recognize
50:24
the disease if confronted with it in their family, and how to prevent the
50:29
suffering that can come to families when a brain is damaged. The website has
50:35
medical forms to take to doctor's visits and advocacy letters if you want to help
50:42
make change in your community. And their most recent campaign is geared up to
50:47
help coaches build brainhealthy teams. You can use the information on
50:53
stopct.org website to understand CTE,
50:58
live with CTE, and prevent CTE. Please visit. Thank you. And don't knock it.
51:07
>> Stop cop.org. So my question is before I ask the
51:13
question that Paul's having me ask is you've done all these studies, does BYU,
51:20
any college or any high school or any football team or contact sport that you
51:27
know of give this to their players to use during season?
51:34
>> BYU, we did the research in 21. Okay. 2021, BYU used it. In 2022 and 2023, it
51:45
really wasn't part of their their program because we didn't have the data
51:49
back. We money has always been a challenge for us. We didn't hadn't
51:54
analyze the study. The the MRIs are very uh high-tech and it's really
51:59
complicated. But by the end of 23, in between 23 and
52:04
24, we did have a lot of the research, a lot of the data done. We presented it to
52:10
them. Uh they like the data. Uh they didn't force players to use it. However,
52:17
we presented it to them and we probably had 25
52:22
players use it on a regular basis in 24. And then again in 25 they had 20 to 25
52:29
players that used it. A lot of the starters used it. Um but even that's not
52:34
satisfactory to me. They need they need wider adoption of this because you can't
52:39
ignore this. But the interesting thing about it this and I don't want to get
52:44
this mixed up that this is hard science because it's not.
52:48
It's anecdotal at best. Uh but 21 if you take uh the 21 season, the 24 season,
52:56
and the 25 five season, those three years, their win ratio was about 85%.
53:05
The other six seasons that they didn't use it, including the two seasons that
53:09
were in between the usage, their win loss record with their win percentage
53:14
was about 58%. So you so you're talking about a
53:19
difference of only three games a season changing from wins to loss, but those
53:25
three games a season is worth millions of dollars to a program. And especially
53:30
to the head coach when you have a win- loss record of 85 almost 90%. And you've
53:36
got to understand, and Corey, you kind of made reference to this, they've had
53:40
no draft picks during those years. Uh they've had they've had a couple. This
53:45
year they had I think one or two. Uh they don't have any fivestar recruits.
53:51
Uh so most they've averaged 10 wins a season or more those three seasons. Mo
53:57
every other team that has at least 10 wins has an average of six to seven
54:03
players drafted. BYU had maybe one or two
54:10
an average. uh 24 I don't think they had any draft picks. So I mean when you look
54:16
at the game of football winnings wins and losses being uh that last 3%. This
54:23
may be that difference.
54:26
>> So
54:27
>> and I know the co the co I know the coaches won't agree with it. They'll say
54:30
it's the coaching or something else that the trainers or
54:35
>> but they really the same coaches, the same pro the same program, the same
54:40
habits and you've got such a difference in their performance looking at the
54:44
treated and untreated. So those those numbers could be considered anecdotal,
54:49
you know, the wins and losses, but the objective uh information that you
54:55
revealed in your testing actually said the players play improved the players
55:04
objective information. The players had less inflammation or no additional
55:09
>> cognitive improvement,
55:10
>> cognitive improvement, so on and so forth. So the the the trial is uh the
55:16
the objective things are the the the data from the trial, but you you were
55:22
>> absolutely I mean that the testing scores improve,
55:25
>> right? And so we're assuming, and I you don't like to assume, but we're we're
55:30
guessing that if you've got a player that got stronger over the course of the
55:36
season, if you've got a player that processes faster or understands and can
55:41
adjust to plays better or can understand the game plan better, uh if you've got
55:48
and these guys went through the exact same tra treat treatments other than the
55:53
headsets. So yeah, it's anecdotal, but you know, that's the way science goes is
55:58
you is you've got to notice things. And if you notice a pattern, uh this is a
56:04
pattern to me. Uh University of Nebraska was the first college to really
56:09
implement strength and conditioning. Uh they Boyd Epley was their first strength
56:13
and conditioning coach. They started it in 70. Other colleges soon followed
56:19
suit. But Nebraska was not a very good team before that. The 20 years before
56:24
that they had a win loss about 53%. The 30 years after the implementation of
56:30
strength and conditioning their win loss went up their win ratio went up to about
56:34
85%. So it's interesting how introducing that
56:38
shift in the way they address training and conditioning improved their game by
56:44
three to four games a year made them a powerhouse. Pretty soon everybody caught
56:49
up. Everybody's on the same page. You can't go to Michigan or Ohio State or SC
56:55
or any college. They're all doing pretty much the same stuff. They might lift
57:00
different or do different lifts or different whatever, but they're but
57:04
they're doing pretty much the same. There's nobody's doing anything
57:07
different. Uh yet now I introduced this we introduced this to BYU and boom,
57:13
they're a powerhouse. They're being mentioned in the college football
57:16
playoffs and the only reason they didn't make it into the playoffs is because
57:20
they're BYU because they don't have the five-star. They don't have the draft
57:24
picks. They don't have the reputation of Notre Dame. Last year BYU should have
57:29
been in it, but instead they take Alabama and Notre Dame. It was a It was
57:34
really sad, but but anyways, it it makes a difference. I believe it
57:41
makes a difference. and and pretty soon people are going to be taking notice
57:46
that coaches are making too much money to leave three wins on the table.
57:50
>> Mhm. So, what do you need to do to validate the
57:56
existing studies? I hear you had an audience with the Maha Group. How is
58:01
that progressing?
58:03
>> Uh, that went well. We we we went to the white house uh one of the the vice
58:08
president's office buildings met with the highlevel maha people uh they
58:14
obviously were interested in veterans and the military
58:18
uh this technology the treatment is being used in
58:24
uh I think two or three VA hospitals and which is sad because PTSD is such a in
58:31
crisis level and if the if there's one area that has responded the most to this
58:37
technology, it's depression and PTSD. Uh you use this with some proven techn or
58:44
from other therapies and that it works synergistically so it can only improve
58:49
and yet it's only being used in a couple of the VA hospitals. after our meeting,
58:54
they were really committed number one, not only to get it into all 175 VA
58:59
hospitals, but to use it in active military also. Is there any group of
59:05
people that need to be able to process faster and perform better than than our
59:10
troops on the ground? And if you can add this to their already uh extensive
59:16
training, uh you've got super super military. And so they liked it very very
59:22
much. They like the research. They're committed to moving it forward.
59:27
>> Are you planning any new studies in the immediate future? And how how can we
59:32
help uh at the Head Rush podcast to promote and help move the move the
59:36
needle? Well, we've got they we just got a large
59:41
DoD, Department of Defense grant uh to study active uh retired military as well
59:48
as first responders. Uh that's really great. We we got that grant over
59:54
Harvard, which was a real feather in our cap. Uh we're also starting an FDA study
1:00:00
on on traumatic brain injury. There's no studies out there that that have
1:00:04
identified an act a legitimate treatment for it. Uh that's a study that we're
1:00:10
going to start very very soon. We're in the middle of of expanding the
1:00:15
exathletes to include NFL players. Uh we're looking for additional funding for
1:00:22
that. We're hoping to access the trust accounts of these retired football
1:00:27
players to to support this kind of research. It's really the only research
1:00:33
that's been shown to be effective uh in this. Uh by the way, that's the that's
1:00:39
the one thing that really attracted these researchers to this. Uh they said
1:00:43
they flat out told me uh I've been doing this for 25 years and we have nothing to
1:00:49
offer these people. nothing other than some drugs to modify the symptoms. And
1:00:54
so that when they saw that this uh these researchers are quoted as saying it
1:01:00
sweeps the brain and I can I can understand that as sweeping the brain of
1:01:05
all kinds of bad stuff. And they also said it's disease modifying. It actually
1:01:11
doesn't look we're not just looking at symptoms. We're not just looking at
1:01:15
tests. We're looking at changes in the biology of the brain. Uh so I mean
1:01:21
there's really nothing that is less uh expensive, that has more benefits, that
1:01:27
has been studied more research-wise, and that has no side effects. It's
1:01:33
currently, forgive the pun, but it's it's a no-brainer.
1:01:35
>> This episode of the Head Rush podcast is brought to you by our personal doctor
1:01:41
and team of doctors, uh Dr. Misel Myisel Deo and she's with the Paradise
1:01:47
Behavioral Health and we are in the Brainwell program which is also part of
1:01:53
the Millennium Health Center. Uh Dr. Mark Gordon, you've seen him on Joe
1:02:00
Rogan and even on our show, the Head Rush podcast.
1:02:04
Um and the hormones and Myelle is awesome.
1:02:11
We love her. She's she's our doctor of psychiatry. She works with the Mark
1:02:15
Gordon program with the hormones and uh and she she adds her twist of genetics
1:02:22
and um and it's it's it basically is melding two wonderful uh uh mediums
1:02:29
together and we're getting great help from Dr. Meiselle Deo. So please check
1:02:34
out her website at paradisebehavioral.com.
1:02:39
Look up the brainwell program. get involved.
1:02:43
>> She's sponsoring us. They're sponsoring us for the next year. So, we are excited
1:02:47
to have them on board and uh and and shout the new the good news to everybody
1:02:53
uh that is watching these broadcasts. So,
1:02:57
>> is she helping you, Paul?
1:02:58
>> Absolutely.
1:02:59
>> She's helping me. So, go check her out. Paradise Behavioral Health.com.
1:03:06
>> How are you doing with working with you trying to get it through the 88 plan? uh
1:03:11
we're we're getting some information from uh the doctors that uh that uh um
1:03:17
can be ba basically I have to prove that it can benefit me and I have to have a
1:03:23
diagnosis of inflammation. So we're we're working through those uh those
1:03:29
avenues and and hopefully it's going to be happening soon.
1:03:33
>> Maybe Thursday when you go get all your testing
1:03:36
>> possibly. Yeah, I definitely will have in inquiries of it. And really really
1:03:42
quick, uh Dr. Carr, uh the we were introduced at the MAC Parkman Summit um
1:03:48
for um repeated head impacts. It's it was a the second international, but um
1:03:55
we actually were shown that some of the worst cases of CTE were were on those
1:04:02
>> Swick operators. swick operators, the boat cap captains that take took the
1:04:07
special forces, the Navy Seals, and they would they would travel 50 miles an hour
1:04:13
and hit 10 13 foot waves and they really the one of the one had committed suicide
1:04:20
or did he just and they saw some of the worst CTE that I've ever seen. So, I
1:04:26
don't know.
1:04:27
>> Maybe you ought to get Larry Carr in touch with M Parkman. We we certainly we
1:04:32
certainly could. So
1:04:34
>> well that's a that's a great that's a great example of not head impacts but
1:04:38
head brain you could maybe change it to brain impacts
1:04:41
>> right
1:04:42
>> because the brain is impacting the skull all the time especially in that
1:04:46
scenario. So I that that's not surprising at all for to me. Yeah. They
1:04:51
should be using this technology. Absolutely.
1:04:55
>> Wonderful to meet you Dr. your car and uh and and and talk with you about your
1:05:01
experience and your experiences with red light therapy. We always leave our
1:05:08
guests or our a our audience with a word of hope. I'd love to hear a word of hope
1:05:14
from you. There is there is a treatment and I I
1:05:19
did not have hope for a long time and I I tried to take my life at one point
1:05:24
because of that hope was gone and I couldn't see a life going forward. Uh
1:05:28
there is hope and it's not just by drugging yourself or getting yourself
1:05:32
high. It's healing hope and we're trying to get that word out. Uh when I came
1:05:39
back from Boston, people would pat me on the back. They say, "I'm glad you found
1:05:44
something." and just brush me off. But uh I've I've since then I've spent seven
1:05:49
years, seven studies, hundreds of examples. Uh it's consistent. This
1:05:55
works. This this this benefits the brain physiologically. It
1:06:01
benefits the cognitive and emotional part, the clinical testing. Uh and so
1:06:10
the next step is to combine it with with certain therapies and see how if it can
1:06:15
be synergistic. Um but even by itself for me personally and for many many
1:06:20
others that we've tested it it works uh very very well
1:06:25
>> and we we know Vite has been a supporter well that a supporter by uh donating
1:06:32
some of the uh equipment or maybe BYU had to buy some of the equipment what
1:06:37
whatever that that was. But uh Corey is using the Vite um um um uh product and
1:06:46
we're hoping to see some wonderful results. He's actually had some benefits
1:06:51
from his wife's perspective and another friend Rico Patrini. He's noticed uh
1:06:59
good things as well. We wish you well for all of your studies and we're we're
1:07:05
on board. we we we see I I really it would have been amazing. I'm just glad
1:07:12
that we met you post uh post you you made it through your darkest moments and
1:07:19
you made it through the other other side and you're you're really a force an
1:07:23
advocate for uh healing and health and and brain wellness. So, thank you so
1:07:28
much for join joining us. Anything else that we missed that you need to shout
1:07:32
from the rooftops? Well, we're we're we're just kicking
1:07:37
starting uh we we've written an IRB. We're starting a what will be the
1:07:42
largest uh adolescent youth adolescent um mental health study uh that's ever
1:07:49
been done using this technology and certainly would welcome any kind of uh
1:07:57
donors
1:08:00
>> and and go to vlight.com and order your red light therapy. We are becoming an
1:08:06
introducer. We haven't got the code yet though, right?
1:08:08
>> Yes. Yeah. Uh, no. They're working on the the correct code.
1:08:13
>> They're working on the correct code to where we're going to be able to offer
1:08:17
you a discount at vite.com. But in the meantime, go to vite.com and order
1:08:23
yourself a unit and get started. You just heard it from the master himself,
1:08:28
the master crusher, the master interceptor, the master tackling
1:08:32
>> tackler. 389.
1:08:36
Oh, I could only dream. Um, I mean, think about it, Paul. He did it in three
1:08:41
years. Like I said, 11 years.
1:08:44
>> 30 games.
1:08:44
>> 30 games. In 11 years of the NFL, you couldn't break that.
1:08:49
>> And I he played in overund I don't know, 16, 20. I I don't know. A
1:08:55
lot of games.
1:08:55
>> That just mean that man knew how to move, jig, jive, and tack.
1:08:59
>> No, no, no. He said he knew how to study the game. He knew he knew where the
1:09:03
ball's going.
1:09:04
>> He was the Rudy. He he would
1:09:07
>> Rudy Rudy
1:09:09
>> Rudy didn't play. He only got in one play. I think
1:09:13
>> that's true.
1:09:15
>> Well, thank you. And yeah, any way with that that we can help um uh we will
1:09:20
certainly you know get us in touch with uh who is marketing and promoting the uh
1:09:25
clinical trial that you're going to be studying with the youth with the youth
1:09:29
because our a big message from the head rush podcast is about you our youth and
1:09:35
strapping heads uh helmets on their head at seven years old when the myelin
1:09:39
sheath is not even developed in their prefrontal cortex to protect their brain
1:09:44
>> or putting them mini buckers
1:09:46
>> and Yeah. Exactly. So,
1:09:48
>> well, just one one more word real quick that we found in our in our u study of
1:09:54
of football players and and women's soccer players that at young ages, 20
1:10:00
years old, 18, 19, 20 years old, they already have a high risk factor for CTE
1:10:06
right in the middle of the brain. This artifact that that people don't really
1:10:10
know what to do with the artifact, but it's a leftover of the brain damage. And
1:10:14
these are these are these are 20 year olds. They have brains uh that they
1:10:18
thought would this was only effective in retired NFL players, but we we're the
1:10:23
first ones to find it in these young people. So, we want to find out when it
1:10:27
starts and and uh when we have to offer this technology before it gets too bad.
1:10:33
>> Well, would Coffler say the youngest she diagnosed CTE is 15.
1:10:38
>> 15. Yeah, it was an McKe, 17 years old and a hockey player, a
1:10:44
young boy that played hockey. He took his own life and then uh Dr. Coffler is
1:10:48
working on a on a diagnosis of a 15-year-old.
1:10:52
>> Right.
1:10:52
>> So it Yeah. And and and this is it's totally preventable and now it would
1:10:58
seem that we can treat it and treat the the um treat the damage. Yeah. Treat the
1:11:05
inflammation. Well, all you know, every college, every university has a
1:11:09
concussion center and and there seems to be a push even Robert
1:11:14
Stern's research and I know the concussion legacy people, their focus
1:11:18
and research is trying to identify CTE in the living. Uh, you know, in my mind,
1:11:23
you got to kind of be careful what you ask for. Uh if you've got CTE in a 15y
1:11:28
old and a 17 year old, if we've got artifacts and risk factors of 20 year
1:11:32
olds, uh and Mckia said she thinks every football player that's played a lot of
1:11:37
football has CTE in some form or some level. So if you're finding CTE in
1:11:43
everybody, what's going to happen to football? What are the insurance
1:11:47
companies going to do? What are the going to do? M
1:11:49
>> what are they going to do if they've got a whole team of people with the
1:11:54
beginnings of CTE?
1:11:56
>> Uh that there you you can start to talk about the death of football. We got to
1:12:01
we have to get the photobiomodulation uh recognized and reimburseable and uh
1:12:08
actually have the insurance companies say, "Hey, if you're using this, you're
1:12:12
going to be get a benefit in your you're going to get lower rates on your
1:12:16
>> Well, I know being clinically diagnosed TES and on my medical records, I no
1:12:22
longer qualify for life insurance."
1:12:24
>> Right. Well, the I I the last uh two policies I tried to get I had to talk to
1:12:31
talk to to an underwriter directly and say no. Uh literally they were concerned
1:12:38
about CTE. So let's let's uh figure
1:12:42
>> Absolutely.
1:12:43
>> Yeah.
1:12:44
>> I can't imagine why insurers would not support this.
1:12:47
>> Exactly. I mean, a li a lifetime of mental health treatment compared to a
1:12:52
one-time device purchase,
1:12:54
>> right?
1:12:54
>> It's it's what he just said.
1:12:57
>> Benefit.
1:12:58
>> Did you hear what he said?
1:12:59
>> I listened very carefully, but
1:13:01
>> you asked Dr. Coffler or other doctors. They cannot correlate mental health to
1:13:08
repeated head impacts.
1:13:11
>> They won't.
1:13:11
>> You just heard it from Dr. Larry Carr himself.
1:13:16
Mental health That's the man you need to listen to.
1:13:20
>> No, I I we appreciate uh you, doctor, and all you do. I know you've talked
1:13:25
hundreds of times about uh uh you've been outspoken about uh this therapy and
1:13:30
your story and it's a great story. Thank you for sharing it with us and our
1:13:36
audience. And it's time
1:13:40
>> stay alert
1:13:41
>> and stay alive. Thank you, Dr. This podcast is for general information only
1:13:45
and does not constitute the practice of medicine. The use of this information
1:13:49
and the materials linked to this podcast is at the user's own risk. The content
1:13:54
of this podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical
1:13:58
advice, diagnosis or treatment. Users should not disregard and delay in
1:14:03
obtaining medical advice from any medical condition they have and they
1:14:07
should seek the assistance of their health care professionals for any such
1:14:10
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