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In this episode of the Dr. JJ Thomas Podcast, I sit down with the remarkable Doug Adams, a distinguished Physical Therapist who specializes in running analysis. We dive deep into gait analysis and explore RunDNA to enhance athletic performance and reduce injury risks. This episode is a must-watch for anyone interested in improving their running performance and overall health. Join us to discover how you can enhance your running performance and prevent injuries straight from a leading expert in the field.
Get A Free Copy Of My Book:5 Things You MUST Do to Build a Successful Cash-Based PT Practice: This quick, easy-to-read guide is your no-BS steps to what really works in building a Cash-Based Physical Therapy business.👉 https://bit.ly/CashPTebookFor more on our in person Physical Therapy continuing education classes (such as DRY NEEDLING), check out our Primal University 🎓 https://bit.ly/primaluniversityyt
In this episode of the Dr. JJ Thomas Podcast, I sit down with the remarkable Doug Adams, a distinguished Physical Therapist who specializes in running analysis. We dive deep into gait analysis and explore RunDNA to enhance athletic performance and reduce injury risks. This episode is a must-watch for anyone interested in improving their running performance and overall health. Join us to discover how you can enhance your running performance and prevent injuries straight from a leading expert in the field.
Get A Free Copy Of My Book:
5 Things You MUST Do to Build a Successful Cash-Based PT Practice: This quick, easy-to-read guide is your no-BS steps to what really works in building a Cash-Based Physical Therapy business.
👉 https://bit.ly/CashPTebook
For more on our in person Physical Therapy continuing education classes (such as DRY NEEDLING), check out our Primal University 🎓 https://bit.ly/primaluniversityyt
Welcome to The Dr. JJ Thomas Podcast! Here I'll be talking all things physical therapy, raw and unplugged, giving you the unfiltered insights you've been searching for in your cash-based physical therapy business. If you're caught in the grind of the traditional model, swamped with paperwork, or feeling like you're not reaching your full potential as a physical therapist, this podcast was created just for you.
Yeah. And our mission is 100 happy healthy.
Dr. JJ Thomas:I love that.
Doug Adams:Right? We want people to be a 100 years old, but happy and healthy when they get there.
Dr. JJ Thomas:I love that.
Doug Adams:Welcome to the doctor JJ Thomas podcast.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Hey, everybody. Welcome to the doctor JJ Thomas podcast. I'm JJ Thomas, and I'm here today with my very good friend and colleague, Doug Adams. Doug, Doug and I have been long long friends, and, so it's really a pleasure to have him here today. And, I'll give you a short intro of Doug from my personal perspective in the sense that the reason we've been friends so long is that, we used to work together a long time ago in insurance based practice.
Dr. JJ Thomas:And, when we worked together, there was almost an immediate friendship because our our passion for what we do and our passion for, excellence and high standards in giving the best care for our patients was, like, immediate immediate to me, immediately obvious in the way Doug lives, the way he learns, the way he practices everything, the way he communicates with patients and with colleagues. So, his his resume is very long. But in a nutshell, the reason Doug is so amazing is because of all those things. So we're very lucky to have him and talk about all the cool things he does in his practice. And, and I think you'll learn a lot from him today.
Dr. JJ Thomas:So I'm glad you're here.
Doug Adams:Thank you for having me. I it's funny you say that because I remember when I first started working in the clinic with you, I just switched over. And you and I play this game of like, we had to have met before. Yeah. Like, there's no way like, we probably didn't.
Doug Adams:I know. And we were like, we just hit it also. We were, like, no, we've met before. Definitely. I'm sure we've met at some point there.
Doug Adams:But
Dr. JJ Thomas:I know. Yeah. It was. It was like this we we knew each other because we're so similar in so many ways, I think. And we just had the same appreciation for, really, excellence.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Like
Doug Adams:Yeah. And I appreciate JJ has been such a big influence on my career and and the pursuit of that excellence and and just, like, surrounding yourself with people of like mind is is so important. And to have colleagues like Jada that I was so fortunate for. We had that little all star crew there that was really fun, and we branched out, but it's been a lot
Dr. JJ Thomas:of fun. But I think that's I was thinking about this today because, actually, right before this, I did a I did a solo podcast on, like, people were asking about, what dry needling course to use. And I was thinking about it, and I'm like, you know, I've taught with so many so many great clinicians, and now we've all kind of branched out to other places. I think that's what happens. Like, you work with great clinicians and you learn from each other and you grow and you build each other up.
Dr. JJ Thomas:But then as you each start to diverge off, you're like you're still con you're still pursuing excellence, but maybe in a slightly different track, but with the same yes. I feel like that's what our whole crew did.
Doug Adams:Yeah. We have we all have a similar foundation. Mhmm. But then it was like, okay, I'm gonna go in this running pathway. Yeah.
Doug Adams:And, alright, I'm gonna go in the dry needling pathway. I'm gonna go here. There's so much to learn because at the foundation, it's still we really pride ourselves on getting great results with patients and the quality of care that we're delivering, which is fun.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Totally. And that's actually back to that. So that's one of the one of the main things I wanted to ask you today is, like, can you, for the audience, go through how you ended up? Because Doug has a lot of experience in a lot of areas. Like, Doug is sorta similar.
Dr. JJ Thomas:I'm like the dry needling girl now. But, like, I have a lot of experience in a lot of areas, but and Doug's the running guy. Right? And I'm always like and I do refer to you that way. I'm like, my friend, the running gait specialist.
Dr. JJ Thomas:He's you know. But, but you have a lot of experience. You know, you did a lot of research in ACL. You did a lot of research in, I think, gait and Yeah. Maybe e stim too.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Did I make
Doug Adams:that up? Shoulder, e stim.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Yeah.
Doug Adams:Yeah. A couple of publications.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Lot of research. So what am I I'm curious for the for the audience to hear. What led you on the path of focusing so much on the running gait analysis? Do you remember?
Doug Adams:The running? Yes. I, like a lot of people's background story in the field, had experiences growing up of running injuries. Mhmm. I was doing cross country in high school and got stress fractures in both shins.
Doug Adams:Mhmm. Kind of a stupid injury. I jumped off a log. We were we used to go around in a place where the there was, like, a equine, like, a horse trail, and it was really fun. And we were stupid freshmen jumping off of it.
Dr. JJ Thomas:While you were training? Like running? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Yeah. Yeah.
Doug Adams:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But so I had these injuries and got to meet a lot of physical therapists then. And I really started enjoying learning about running.
Doug Adams:And then I remember I started competing in triathlons between my sophomore and junior year of high school. And I really got into it and I picked up a book called Triathletes Training Bible.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Okay.
Doug Adams:And that was it for me. Was it good? It was great. Yes. Oh, it's it's still a great resource.
Doug Adams:I still send people to that
Dr. JJ Thomas:Pathlights training bible.
Doug Adams:Pathlights training bible. And I just started reading about it, and I had this senior project in high school that you had to do a publication. And I was I'm a math and science guy. English was not my favorite, but I asked the teacher, can I do this sports science magazine or journal basically? And I worked with John Noonan and a lot of those guys.
Doug Adams:I started like doing this testing and he helped me with my senior project and did this and that was just the start of me really go like really being involved with running and triathlon. But then there's no story complete without the saying that I had just the best mentorship along the way. Yeah. Even in college I had great professors. When I went to PT school, I had just the top researchers in Right.
Doug Adams:The field that I was very lucky to have Irene Davis, Rich Willie, Lynn Steiner Mackler. Yeah. All of them right there teaching me about gait and ACL and just being a lackey for that.
Dr. JJ Thomas:And numbers. Because I have to say, one of the things that I really admire about you is that you are so good at looking at research and and and not just looking at research, but, like, dissecting it. Like, I just love the way you Doug doesn't just read research. Like, you read it and you dissect it, and then you and you also pull from many different areas, and you just you really are a student of the research, which I love.
Doug Adams:Okay. It's I'm smart enough to understand the research, but dumb enough that I need to make it approachable. So I take it to them. I have to figure out like, well, what is this Okay. Big words.
Dr. JJ Thomas:How do
Doug Adams:I take
Dr. JJ Thomas:this and turn
Doug Adams:it into practice?
Dr. JJ Thomas:Yeah. Usable. Exactly. I totally Yeah.
Doug Adams:I'm very functional
Dr. JJ Thomas:You are.
Doug Adams:In everything that I do.
Dr. JJ Thomas:It's huge.
Doug Adams:And like research I think is the same way, and why I was really lucky to have, like, Rich Willie and Ivory Davis are both these running researchers that really focused on the function.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Like, what
Doug Adams:do we do?
Dr. JJ Thomas:And they were looking for the same answers. Like, what does this tell? Like, because I think it is true that a lot of times sometimes in research, they get caught up in, like, the details of the research, but that doesn't always help the clinicians directly. Exactly.
Doug Adams:Yeah.
Dr. JJ Thomas:So I do. I agree with that. And I think you it's it's a tribute to them and your relationship with them, but you definitely took it and and hit the ground running with it. So Yeah. That's really cool.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Yeah. Thank you. You just came to me on the fly.
Doug Adams:But I you know, about research too, like, one of the things I think that's important to remember is a lot of people get stuck in evidence based practice, and they don't understand that this is the way I put it about research. No research study ever started without an expert coming up with an idea. Yeah. So when you're working with experts, when you're getting mentorship, that's a level of evidence. Totally.
Doug Adams:And I think people need to understand, and this even alludes to a point that we might talk about later here too, but no expert ever no no one ever did a research study without some type of expert saying, I think this would be a really good idea.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Yeah.
Doug Adams:We need to validate this. We need to see if this works.
Dr. JJ Thomas:I'm so glad you said that because one of the things I was thinking about when you were talking about, what first got you interested in running, that whole process of, like, you being a runner in high school and then asking to do this project. All I kept thinking, and I didn't wanna interrupt you, but I kept thinking, like, it's really I think part of what drives you to be so excellent is your curiosity. And to follow-up on what you're just saying, like, a a great research experiment or a great research research design is only gonna come from someone being curious. And from a clinician agree
Doug Adams:more.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Yeah. Actively participating in something and being like, well, let me ask why this is doing this or why this isn't doing this.
Doug Adams:Exactly.
Dr. JJ Thomas:So
Doug Adams:Yeah. And I think that that is the biggest determinant. When I'm interviewing somebody Yeah. I'm checking to see, like, how much are they interviewing me?
Dr. JJ Thomas:Yeah.
Doug Adams:Tell you the thing, like, what's their curiosity? You mean
Dr. JJ Thomas:to hire?
Doug Adams:To hire.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Yeah. I love that.
Doug Adams:Like, when I'm, like, a for one of the clinician in my clinic or for an employee at my company, I really wanna see how curious they are.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Yeah, and I call that hunger.
Doug Adams:Yeah.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Like I'm looking for a hungry clinician.
Doug Adams:Right. They wanna understand why, and that's gonna be an itch that they just need to scratch.
Dr. JJ Thomas:All the time.
Doug Adams:All the time. They need to figure out. They need to understand like why did that help this person and not that person? And if they're asking that, they're gonna keep getting
Dr. JJ Thomas:That's right.
Doug Adams:Better. And that curiosity is is a huge part of that too.
Dr. JJ Thomas:It's so cool.
Doug Adams:Because it's you, well, curiosity and enough courage to not care if people think you don't know something.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Amen to that. Yes. Or they disagree with you.
Doug Adams:Yes.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Like, which I think is important
Doug Adams:to
Dr. JJ Thomas:be able to take that.
Doug Adams:You know? It's like it's it's along all the same lines of failure is good type thing. I even asked, like, my kids yesterday. I was like, hey, what'd you fail at this week?
Dr. JJ Thomas:I love that.
Doug Adams:And they're like, what? And my daughter, the type a She was just like, I I don't like that word fail. And I was like, embrace it. Yeah. Because it's okay.
Doug Adams:And, like, we can't have big failures. Right? We're not gonna Right. We don't wanna seriously injure a patient.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Right.
Doug Adams:But we wanna be able to say, like, oh, wow. I had a patient I was just working with the other day, and I got them great results. They came in for some back pain, started working on them, did some things that made a big difference, and then I was like, oh, let me check this one thing out. And I did it, and it undid all the work that I did.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Oh, man.
Doug Adams:Yeah. Right?
Dr. JJ Thomas:What? You learned a lot.
Doug Adams:Yeah. I learned a lot. 100%. And then the next time that they came in, it was like, okay, we need to address this and we need to understand. And I had to ask myself, like, why did that?
Doug Adams:Like, was that because I took away their compensation? And okay, well now what were they compensating for? Yeah. Why was they doing that? So you can't be afraid to be wrong Yeah.
Doug Adams:With that and be curious about why you're wrong.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Okay. So I have to ask you this now because I didn't I should have said this earlier, but in the introduction, but I was so excited to just introduce who you are as a human. But, for those of you that don't know Doug, he can you talk a little bit about your project? Like, the different components, Doug, because of his curiosity, he has a lot of, sort of different elements of what he does as a clinician and as an educator. And, yeah, let's talk about those a little bit.
Doug Adams:Yeah. So maybe, maybe I'll give a little background story
Dr. JJ Thomas:quickly. Yeah.
Doug Adams:So, you heard the high school part. Then I went to undergrad at Auburn and continued and really was interested in exercise science stuff. Went to PT school, had this great mentorship, started doing we would have these, gait analysis that people would come in for. Started doing that, started helping with some research too. Mhmm.
Doug Adams:And we started noticing patterns.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Mhmm.
Doug Adams:And that was where we started to say, maybe there's not a perfect way to run, but there's definitely some imperfect ways to run that we know
Dr. JJ Thomas:could Cause Exactly. Cumulative damage. Yes. Yeah.
Doug Adams:So we should identify what those are. And so I started teaching with that. I got out of academia after a while, did some publications, worked there, went into more of a private practice setting, and got frustrated pretty quick
Dr. JJ Thomas:Yeah.
Doug Adams:Because I thought, like, oh, I love running. Like, I should just work with runners all the time.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Right.
Doug Adams:That's not the case as a young professional. Yeah. And it was great experience, and I love that I could get a lot of reps. Yeah. And I think that is valuable.
Doug Adams:Totally. You can't always just start what you think you're gonna finish in your niche practice. Right. But I got frustrated pretty quick. So I refined some of those things that I saw when I was in academia.
Doug Adams:I started refining it and then came up with these like 5 categories and right, well that's gait analysis, but what else do I need to
Dr. JJ Thomas:look at?
Doug Adams:Yeah. So then started teaching these courses. I was in charge of onboarding for a pretty big company, doing a lot there. And we were supposed to teach, like, 30 people, and we wound up teaching 200 people in a year.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Yeah.
Doug Adams:And I went off these on these tangents about running, like 4 hour tangents.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Love it.
Doug Adams:It was great. How did
Dr. JJ Thomas:he stop you?
Doug Adams:Yep. So then eventually this is now around like 2011, 2012. Yeah. Started teaching just running courses.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Love it.
Doug Adams:And that was really helpful, and got some feedback and it was a nice kinda side hustle doing some teaching with that.
Dr. JJ Thomas:And then And feeling that like Yes. You feel clearly feeling that passion. Right?
Doug Adams:Yes.
Dr. JJ Thomas:That love for what you do.
Doug Adams:And then I I continued to be frustrated by not being able to see the patient population that I wanted. Yeah.
Dr. JJ Thomas:And Because of the environment you were in at the time.
Doug Adams:Yes.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Yeah. Yeah.
Doug Adams:And even in the environment I
Dr. JJ Thomas:don't mean, like, that the people weren't supportive. I just mean the the busyness of it was probably yeah.
Doug Adams:Yeah. There's a lot of people coming in. Yeah. So we have to handle everyone coming in the door. Yeah.
Doug Adams:And I, you know, I felt like, why aren't these runners seeking me out a little bit more? Yeah. Thinking I'm not a lot of
Dr. JJ Thomas:I'm really good at this, you you guys. No. No. No. I'm kidding.
Doug Adams:Yeah. But I I started wondering why. And then so that's when I was like, oh, if I could just do gait analysis at a higher level Yeah. Like I had when I was at University Delaware, that would be awesome.
Dr. JJ Thomas:And then you could show them.
Doug Adams:Yes. Yeah. So I I kinda like knew what I was, but I wanted to show them. So then that's when in 2016 16 started working on developing a 3 d motion analysis system Yeah. Because there wasn't anything out there that I needed.
Doug Adams:I I didn't have $250,000 for a gait lab Right. At the time, but I wanted one.
Dr. JJ Thomas:I actually remember these discussions with you.
Doug Adams:You and I talked to her
Dr. JJ Thomas:about that. In the clinic, I remember in the in the 4 minutes that we had between patients, I remember you brainstorming about this and being like, I wish there was a way Yeah. That I could have the system. I, like, literally remember watching your wheels turn that I could have the same system we had at the gait lab, but in a way that's mobile and accessible for physical therapists
Doug Adams:Absolutely.
Dr. JJ Thomas:So that it's actually doable. Because I can't, number 1, spend 100 of 1,000 of dollars on their setup.
Doug Adams:Yeah.
Dr. JJ Thomas:But I still wanna be able to do this. And and then I remember, like, a follow-up follow-up conversation where you're like, I think I'm gonna create my own. And I'm like, you're crazy. What do you mean you're gonna create your own?
Doug Adams:Yeah. It was just like, alright. Well, let's do it. Yeah. Because it needed it, and I knew that the patients would benefit from it.
Doug Adams:And it's like, hey, if nothing else, then I have it for me. And if other people like it, great.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Yeah.
Doug Adams:But it was it was kinda different from a lot of technology. We developed a systematic approach to working with runners and evaluating runners Yeah. And then built technology to support it.
Dr. JJ Thomas:So cool. That is the way it should be.
Doug Adams:It should be. Yeah. Right? Like, how do we make this easier more affordable?
Dr. JJ Thomas:To your point earlier, a lot of technology doesn't always it comes back to the research. Like, it has to start with a curious mind. And if the technology is being invented by somebody that doesn't have the questions
Doug Adams:Yes.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Like, the right questions, then they're not gonna produce this the right technology.
Doug Adams:An engineer sitting in a room by themselves is gonna be like, this is a great camera.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Right. And an engineer sitting in the room with, like, a like, a like, a generalist physical therapist is also not gonna have the right question. Yeah.
Doug Adams:Yeah. So, you know, fast forward, we kinda had it. It was working. A couple other people wanted to use it type thing, but then 20 19 military kinda got a hold of it. And they gave us some funding and we developed some algorithms to make it even easier and we expanded from 5 categories to 12 categories, and we were able to really show great results there.
Doug Adams:Unfortunately, we couldn't publish them because of the population we were working with. Yeah. We We're able to show these really great results that it worked and it made it even easier. Like, we had military police officers operating the equipment and getting great results
Dr. JJ Thomas:for that.
Doug Adams:So that was really
Dr. JJ Thomas:cool to see. The equipment, meaning the 3 d Helix system.
Doug Adams:The 3 d system.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Yeah. So Doug and I are talking about this. Can I talk about that? Yeah.
Doug Adams:Sure. Yeah.
Dr. JJ Thomas:So it's the 3 d Helix system. It's, we have it in our office. Eric is certified. We're all certified in running gait analysis. Eric's done all the courses and has the has the system.
Dr. JJ Thomas:So he may mainly man so we put everybody that's getting the 3 d analysis on Eric's schedule. But it's awesome. Like, the results are so cool. And what's cool about it for us is, like, I was describing, it's very, it's it's simply it's simple to put into a clinic. Like, it's a single it's a 3 d system on a single plate.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Am I describing it well? On a on 3 d cameras on a single plate and then a TV monitor that essentially puts the image real time up on the screen right in front of them. So it's really awesome.
Doug Adams:It is. And, you know, that's, like, a big part of it. And I love that aspect, and it's kinda like my baby. Yeah. So I love that.
Doug Adams:But I think even something I'm really happy with, it's something we share, is like the education aspect of it too. Yeah. We've had over 10,000 people take our courses now Yeah. Which has been awesome. And we get emails from people all the time like, hey, I took your course and that Monday after I took it I was immediately using it and doing it in the clinic.
Doug Adams:And that's great too because at the core, you know, we kinda talk about, when we talk about RunDNA, we talk about our mission. Yeah. And our mission is 100, happy, healthy.
Dr. JJ Thomas:I love that.
Doug Adams:Okay. We want people to be a 100 years old, but happy and healthy when they get there.
Dr. JJ Thomas:I love that.
Doug Adams:And the way that we contribute to that is
Dr. JJ Thomas:It's so cute. When you first said to me 100 happy healthy Yeah. Earlier before the cameras were on, I actually thought you were thinking a 100%.
Doug Adams:No.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Not a 100, but I love that too.
Doug Adams:100 years old.
Dr. JJ Thomas:100 years old. I love it.
Doug Adams:I'm gonna go for a run on my 100th birthday.
Dr. JJ Thomas:I love it.
Doug Adams:That's my goal.
Dr. JJ Thomas:I wanna go with you.
Doug Adams:Let's go. Here we go. Let's go for a run. Yeah. Are
Dr. JJ Thomas:we gonna be a 100 in the same year? I don't think so.
Doug Adams:Close.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Shit. I'm gonna be a 110 when you're or something like that.
Doug Adams:No. No. No. Yeah. No.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Oh, well. I better
Doug Adams:On your 100th birthday, I'll go for 1 with you. On my 100th birthday, you come for 1 with me.
Dr. JJ Thomas:That sounds good.
Doug Adams:That's good. That'll be great. So, but it's like, you know, our the way that we contribute to 100 Happy Healthy
Dr. JJ Thomas:Yeah.
Doug Adams:Is that we analyze movement to promote healthy lifestyles. Mhmm. Because they're so essential movements. The reason we started with running is because I think running would be this magic pill that if you took all the benefits of running and it would cure cardiovascular disease and depression and diabetes. You know, it would be great, but the FDA would never prove it because they're such at a risk of injury.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Sure. So So if you can minimize the risk of injury Exactly. Then you're gonna allow people. I love it. Plus, it is.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Running makes people happy.
Doug Adams:It does.
Dr. JJ Thomas:It just does.
Doug Adams:Runner's high.
Dr. JJ Thomas:You can't yeah. You can't go to a running event and not see a lot of happy now they might be tired. Yeah. They might be a little beat up, but they're all happy because they're doing something good for themselves.
Doug Adams:Oh, yeah. Start line of any race, people are like, oh, we made it. Like, there's Yeah. How was your training? Duh.
Doug Adams:What are you using? What? Oh, you like those shoes? They're just happy.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Happy? Exactly.
Doug Adams:I know.
Dr. JJ Thomas:I love it. So that's awesome. So Doug mentioned the name of his running his continuing education company is RunDNA.
Doug Adams:Yeah.
Dr. JJ Thomas:And, and as he said, the the programs are amazing. Actually, what I wanted to tell you, even one of my patients, saw Doug recently for a gait analysis. And, even the patients come out better educated from these gait analysis. Like, I love the way you in your certification programs, the way you have the descriptors, the the Yeah. The categories as you put them of deficits.
Dr. JJ Thomas:And it's really swallowable. It's really, like, easy for patients and therapists to understand and and relay and come up with a plan of attack because patients will come back from these analyses. And, like, my guy that you just saw recently was like, oh my god. I'm I'm apparently, my glutes are asleep. You know?
Dr. JJ Thomas:Like, I'm a glute amnesiac. You know? And I'm like, yep. And and it's cute. What's even cooler is, like, I almost knew that he'd go to you
Doug Adams:Yeah.
Dr. JJ Thomas:And you would say that based on his movement Yeah. Because I analyze differently.
Doug Adams:And it matched up.
Dr. JJ Thomas:And it totally matched up.
Doug Adams:Yeah.
Dr. JJ Thomas:And, and so it's really fun to see that not only that correlation between, like, 2 different methods of movement analysis
Doug Adams:Yeah.
Dr. JJ Thomas:But also just reemphasizing. It's it also gives him another avenue of how to improve his movement. Exactly. Like, I can help him with, you know, the supportive exercises and supplemental exercise and different like, I love how he he was like, Doug said check my mid foot, and I'm like, on it. You know?
Dr. JJ Thomas:Like, we can collaborate that way, but also having a whole another way to support him in his own strategies for
Doug Adams:It's synergistic. Right? It's not competing. It's it's let's work together of it because that was a big thing. I'm a gait guy.
Doug Adams:I love gait. Yeah. But our courses, we really made sure we talk about this unique runner injury profile. And we talk about all the factors that contribute to running injuries. It's not just the gait.
Doug Adams:The gait is a really important part of it, and we focus on it because a lot of people don't look at gait. Yeah. They don't feel confident looking at gait.
Dr. JJ Thomas:That's it.
Doug Adams:And that's what we've tried to make that aspect simpler. Yeah. But there's also the elements of we need to look at movement. Yeah. We need to look at these things and they're synergistic.
Doug Adams:And we need to be because improving mobility and strength doesn't change form.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Right.
Doug Adams:And improving form doesn't change mobility and strength.
Dr. JJ Thomas:100%.
Doug Adams:So we have to be doing both Yeah. Which is so important, and it's why it's, like, so I I love when we get to collaborate on patients.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Yeah.
Doug Adams:It's fun. It's a lot of fun.
Dr. JJ Thomas:It is fun. That's cool. So, well, we were talking earlier about maybe some pursues some some some new pursuits of yours in in the area of using gait analysis to help a 100 happy, healthy people.
Doug Adams:Yeah. With walking. Yeah. Yeah. We're going I I'm totally nerdy about I'm a running nerd Yeah.
Doug Adams:By profession, but I I'm just shaming that I think I should just be a gate nerd because it's
Dr. JJ Thomas:You could just be a nerd.
Doug Adams:Just nerd. I'm just yeah. A nerd is is very accurate.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Don't limit yourself.
Doug Adams:Nerd about everything here. That's a pretty fair accurate description. But I I'm loving the walking stuff here too. We're releasing a really cool new protocol. We we do analyze walking already.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Yeah.
Doug Adams:But the way that we have a guidance. Right? What we do, we kinda use our courses, our technology. We say we have a guide mentality. So we're like a fishing guide.
Doug Adams:Smart. So we take you like the fishing guide is the one that's tying the lures, doing that thing, and kinda like, hey, catch it over there. We're catching the fish. Right? And we wanna be we wanna make it easy for you to get great results.
Doug Adams:So we we wanna be a guide like that, and that's like what we do with our courses and with our technology is like, hey, we want you to be an expert fisherman. And we're gonna teach you some things along the way, and then you're gonna go in and you're gonna cash, and you're gonna do the work, And you're gonna get the results. And, like, that fish is you know, you drug it in. You get to eat it and kill it kind of thing. Right?
Dr. JJ Thomas:But you're I know you and I were talking about this before too. How, like, really what you're doing with your courses, which is which is priceless to therapists, really, is it's almost like an apprenticeship program.
Doug Adams:Yeah.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Like, to me, you're sharing your all of your nerdiness that you've accumulated over the years from even from that first high school experience where you started delving into the research then, all of those years of experience and those clinical patterns that you've seen, you're now just openly sharing with people.
Doug Adams:Oh, it's a wide open book. Yeah. Right? Like, if anyone wants to treat, like, you know, like, we've seen and now a lot of other people are doing successfully Yeah. Too, it's like, here it is.
Dr. JJ Thomas:I know. It's cool.
Doug Adams:Open book with that stuff.
Dr. JJ Thomas:I know you are. It's cool. And it's that's one of the reasons we've also always jibed is that, like, you're
Doug Adams:you're in it for the right reasons. You just want people to get better.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Yeah. And and I think you and I both came to this realization that, like, we can help more patients by helping more therapists do better.
Doug Adams:Yeah.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Right?
Doug Adams:Well, I think we had this conversation one time in the clinic too. It's so funny because you were there for all these, like, formative years while all this stuff was coming together here.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Yeah.
Doug Adams:That I said, alright. I think we did the math one time. Yeah. Right. How many patients I'm helping, like, 400 different patients a year, and if I have a 40 year career, I'm gonna help 1600 patients.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Right.
Doug Adams:Like, oh, that's really good. Yeah. Help 1600 people. And then it's like, okay. Well, now if I teach
Dr. JJ Thomas:Right.
Doug Adams:10,000 clinicians. Right. Each of them. Each of them is treating 1600 people. And maybe it's not that I'm the entire influence of why they're getting results.
Doug Adams:No. But if it helps a majority of their patients, like that's a lot more people. And that's the career goal Yeah. That we do. And it's it's the same, like it's funny.
Doug Adams:So our we just did our quarterly meeting for RunDNA. And our metric that we look at is how many gait analysis were done.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Cool.
Doug Adams:And so when one of our users does a 3 d gait analysis that we can track and say like, oh, they send it to the app, the web based app there. So a gait analysis was done. That was cool.
Dr. JJ Thomas:And awesome.
Doug Adams:The cool thing was that Q1 of 2023 was a certain amount. And then in Q1 of 2024, it was almost 3 x.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Let's go.
Doug Adams:And I was like, this is great. Like, so many more people are getting gait analysis. And that's all what we're about. Right? Because we don't make a dime when they do a gait analysis.
Doug Adams:But that's our most important metric because we wanna make sure people have everything that they need to do gait analysis.
Dr. JJ Thomas:That's awesome.
Doug Adams:Which is fun.
Dr. JJ Thomas:And I know I like, going back to the walking thing, when you first started telling me, that you were gonna start looking into more of the walk like, education on walking analysis. I was like, this is huge because I have so many patients that I know things will be revealed in their walking analysis that, you know, I may not pick up I may not pick up with my eyes.
Doug Adams:We were talking about my example. Yeah.
Dr. JJ Thomas:I didn't know if you wanted to share it.
Doug Adams:Yeah. I was happy to share it because so, if I'm not the most active on social media, but some people that follow me on social media, I shared a bit of an injury journey that I had recently where I partially tore my patellar tendon.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Right.
Doug Adams:And I had to take some time off, and that that's a whole another story. But anyway, now I'm back running
Dr. JJ Thomas:Yeah.
Doug Adams:And I perceive that I'm doing well. Yeah. And we I was teaching one of the clinicians in my clinic.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Wait. I should just say, he perceives he's doing well, and he's pretty critical eye. Like, even, like, really. I mean, even some people can't analyze themselves well, but I've known Doug a long time, and I know you're pretty good at, like, picking up. Yeah.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Like, he'll be like, oh, I'm a little bit off on my heel strike or whatever. Like, I've definitely heard you say those things. So that's pretty cool that you didn't pick up anything on your initial screen.
Doug Adams:I feel like my running is going well. And I've done running gait, and this is interesting with the walking and running part too because they're different movement patterns. Yeah. Right? So my running I've checked as I've gone along and it's been good.
Dr. JJ Thomas:And it's been good. You felt good. Yes. And when you do the 3 d BLX, it's still pretty good.
Doug Adams:Yes. Okay. Still a little right left difference, but like the important metrics are there. Yeah. So I was teaching the clinician how to use the walking protocol, and I noticed a difference in my hip position on my involved side versus my uninvolved side.
Doug Adams:And then I pulled up a graph of the hip and the knee together. And what I noticed is I was avoiding straightening my knee out fully on the right side.
Dr. JJ Thomas:On the right.
Doug Adams:And I was comp at initial contact.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Okay.
Doug Adams:So So at initial contact, I had an even step length Uh-huh. Which was good. And all those metrics if I just looked at it that way, I'd be like, oh, you're nice and even. Good job. But then I looked a little deeper and I was like, oh, like why is my hip more on that side?
Doug Adams:And to keep my step length symmetrical, what I'm doing is I'm increasing my hip flexion because I don't wanna go into as much knee extension.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Interesting.
Doug Adams:So I've I was like, oh, wow. I guess I really am. And then I just kinda went and I tried it and I extended my knee fully. And I was like, oh, I have a little bit of pain there.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Interesting.
Doug Adams:So Yeah. The body is great at compensating. Yeah. And but it doesn't do a good job of sending an email to you
Dr. JJ Thomas:to tell you it's compensating. Say that. It doesn't. It's like I got this. I'm just gonna handle this.
Doug Adams:Yeah. But then that manifests into deficit somewhere else.
Dr. JJ Thomas:And that's important. Right?
Doug Adams:Because when we were being chased by lions and we needed to run away, we need to
Dr. JJ Thomas:compensate quickly. Yeah. With you.
Doug Adams:We don't need to send a memo.
Dr. JJ Thomas:That's right.
Doug Adams:But it's now knowing when it's not necessary to compensate, it doesn't change back. It's short sided. It's like, hey, this works.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Yeah. It's true. So all
Doug Adams:of a sudden if I start getting I've had a little back pain recently and we've done a lot of walking recently. Yeah. And a little right sided low back pain. Yeah. It's like, well, I'm going into more hip flexion.
Doug Adams:I'm using a hip flexion. You're getting
Dr. JJ Thomas:into more pelvic torsion. Right. Yeah, exactly.
Doug Adams:So it's interesting just how that informs it. I mean, I I view this and I'm biased. I'll I'll admit it there. Right? We're all biased.
Doug Adams:We're all biased. But I admit, I I think having an ability to measure gait is like having a goniometer in a clinic.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Yeah. It is. Well, it's even better than that because it's a real light. It's a real time.
Doug Adams:It's a real time.
Dr. JJ Thomas:That's what I was telling I was telling Doug earlier that I had a patient today that I, he's gonna do his gait analysis with Eric, but I Yeah. I was I had I squeezed him in a session. It was a 45 minute eval. He's running Broad Street. So he's yeah.
Dr. JJ Thomas:But he's but he told me 3 times before I even started as eval, like, I'm not a runner. I'm not a runner. You know? He's a squash player. He's very active, but, like, he's, like, I'm not a runner.
Dr. JJ Thomas:And he was like, I brought my shoes though for you to look at them. And I said, look. I'm gonna look at your shoes, but I'll tell you what. I'm gonna look at baseline foundational mobility and stability patterns on you, but I want you to I don't wanna waste your time getting on the treadmill today because not waste your time, but I wanna make the most of your time and money monetary investment and put you on the 3 d helix system with Eric because he's gonna see more at a at a at a more specific level at every joint than what I can do with my eyes.
Doug Adams:Right. Quicker and easier like that.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Quicker and easier and more effective. Yeah. So, so I was I actually told him, remember how this is another cool story that I should share with you. After my ACL reconstruction, Doug helped me with my rehab, and we did some gait analysis when I first started running again. We're gonna do a follow-up so you can see how I progressed.
Dr. JJ Thomas:But what was really cool, that was early. That was, like, just after I mean, I was just clear to run.
Doug Adams:The earliest that
Dr. JJ Thomas:you run. Maybe 3 months out. And, and, I had multiple pairs of shoes in my car because I'm because? Yeah. Because I'm not deaf.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Because but, and when we used different shoes for the gait analysis, it changed dramatically.
Doug Adams:Remember that? It changed a good bit.
Dr. JJ Thomas:One pair out. So much that I threw the one pair out.
Doug Adams:Yeah.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Like, I was like, oh my god. This is so bad. I'm never I don't even wanna get confused. I threw them out.
Doug Adams:We have, running stores using our technology now that are helping people with it there because shoes aren't cheap now.
Dr. JJ Thomas:I know.
Doug Adams:So if you're gonna spend a $150 on a pair of shoes, make sure it's the right pair of shoes.
Dr. JJ Thomas:And it probably saves them because people are trying to bring back because they're expensive. Yeah. People are buying them, coming to us. We're saying that's not the right shoe for you. Yeah.
Dr. JJ Thomas:And they're trying to take them back. It's just a hassle.
Doug Adams:Well, they sit there. They throw them out.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Yeah.
Doug Adams:Then they wasted a $150.
Dr. JJ Thomas:So this guy, same thing. I was like, look. I was like, bring all of your shoes that you that you think you should wear because I want Eric to look at them all all for you.
Doug Adams:And
Dr. JJ Thomas:then he can help you choose what shoes to wear. Yeah. So that's cool.
Doug Adams:Which is fun. It's I mean, for me, like, not that's not everyone's cup of tea, but it's really fun if you're interested in that stuff, getting the data. And we're talking about developing expertise and curiosity. Right? The only way that you develop the expertise you don't know how you did on that.
Doug Adams:You don't know how you did on that. You don't know if if you're wanting help, though.
Dr. JJ Thomas:You can't get recourse or not. No. Smart.
Doug Adams:So you have to get, like, if you wanna be really good at something, you need to have the tools and technology and whatever is necessary. Maybe, like, there are things that you can measure. Like, I want people doing gait analysis. I don't like Yeah. I know not every clinic's gonna have a 3 d, even though I think it's like a goniometer.
Dr. JJ Thomas:I know. I keep talking about it because I love it, and I like toys. And I'm like, honestly, I like efficient use of time, and I think that's why I'm such a proponent.
Doug Adams:Yeah. It's 3 minutes
Dr. JJ Thomas:to get a game analysis. You your courses do give a ton of information that make it very, manageable for a therapist to analyze gait without the system.
Doug Adams:Right. We tell you, hey. With 2 d, here's what to do. Yeah. I want people doing gait.
Doug Adams:Right? I can't measure everyone that's taking our courses
Dr. JJ Thomas:Right.
Doug Adams:How many gait analysis are being done. We just know how many 3 d are done. Cool. But I'm like Wow.
Dr. JJ Thomas:I didn't even think of that when you said that number. That's awesome.
Doug Adams:But now think of all the people that just took the courses. Those 10,000 people, like if they're doing gait analysis, we we have no way to track, but we're making gait analysis prime as part of what rehab is for runners.
Dr. JJ Thomas:That's really cool.
Doug Adams:Yeah. That's, I mean, that's our goal
Dr. JJ Thomas:with it. And in your courses, because it's been a while since I took them, honestly. But are you I remember you have, like, your courses also come with sort of the protocol, right? Yes. Yeah.
Doug Adams:Yeah. So we make it so that we want you to apply it right away. Yeah. And then now we've even started like there is an optional app that you can use for it there. And we've made that even cheaper for education people because we want them to incorporate it.
Doug Adams:Yeah. I think it's, you know, on
Dr. JJ Thomas:Like through the RunDNA app.
Doug Adams:Through the RunDNA app.
Dr. JJ Thomas:That's awesome.
Doug Adams:Because it just makes it easier where you have these programs, and we have our programs, but you can make your own programs too. But if we literally make it so that the patient gets an email every day saying
Dr. JJ Thomas:It's cool.
Doug Adams:Here's your program. Here's a video.
Dr. JJ Thomas:I hate the app. It's awesome. Honestly, the app is awesome because it it does more it also it gives you a way to get real time feedback from the page. It's just like you said
Doug Adams:Yeah.
Dr. JJ Thomas:If you if you're not getting the knowledge, if you're not seeing how you did, you can't recourse.
Doug Adams:Right.
Dr. JJ Thomas:And so in through the app
Doug Adams:Are they having pain? Are they not?
Dr. JJ Thomas:App gives you real time information on on their response to treatment as well even when you're not with them, which is so cool. Yeah. Yeah. And it has the all the exercises.
Doug Adams:Everything.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Like, all the so each like, correct me if I'm
Doug Adams:Yeah.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Describing this incorrectly, but but each exercise, so I'm not sorry. Each, like, deficit criteria
Doug Adams:Yeah.
Dr. JJ Thomas:What do you call it?
Doug Adams:Gate category?
Dr. JJ Thomas:Gate category.
Doug Adams:Yes.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Yeah. Each gate category has basically a series of an exercise program that's that helps with it. Right? Right.
Doug Adams:Yeah. So when we say, hey, somebody's overstride or knee drive, one of the 12 categories, there's a, okay, here's how to warm up, here's drills. Like, we literally break it down of, if you see this on the treadmill, take them off, do these 2 drills, give them this cue, get them back on the treadmill, then they do this gait retraining program for the next 4 weeks. Yeah. And it's you just hit a button for that.
Dr. JJ Thomas:You literally just, like, shrink wrapped
Doug Adams:Yeah.
Dr. JJ Thomas:All of your years of experience and made it very manageable for therapists to apply.
Doug Adams:Because I remember it be even when I opened my practice or mega project that we were just spending a lot of time after gait analysis Yeah. Putting these together. And I was like, I know we're charging a good bit for these, but I don't have time to sit here for 45 minutes and make up a program.
Dr. JJ Thomas:That's brilliant. I love that you do that.
Doug Adams:It makes a huge difference because when the and it's also a better patient experience. Because when they leave, they know everything that it's supposed to do. Right. They don't have to wait a couple days for us to send it. Yeah.
Doug Adams:It's just like they're done.
Dr. JJ Thomas:They're staying in like, they're also their compliance has to go way up because they're like, I know the other patient of mine that moved to New York and Yeah. She needed you. And Yeah. And and you managed her virtually.
Doug Adams:Yes.
Dr. JJ Thomas:And, and that that was awesome.
Doug Adams:She did great. Yeah.
Dr. JJ Thomas:She did great. And she I know that she was nervous about, like, her her ability to do that virtually, but the app kept her kept her in line.
Doug Adams:She rocked it.
Dr. JJ Thomas:She's awesome. Yeah. She is. Yeah. She did
Doug Adams:a great job.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Yeah. That's cool. What about there was something else we were talking about before the you were talking about clinical expertise.
Doug Adams:Oh, test for test.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Do you wanna go there? Yeah. We can go there.
Doug Adams:Let's go. So I was just thinking, to give JJ the kudos that she deserves. Like JJ is just at the top of the field, does a great job. She is just like such an expert on this and you really, like I just feel lucky to witness some of that development where where you were there. It wasn't legal to needle in Delaware or it wasn't illegal but it wasn't legal or
Dr. JJ Thomas:clearly defined in the practice time.
Doug Adams:And J. J. Like advocated for that. But also was just like being an advocate, but developing clinical expertise and doing those things. And I think about that and I was kinda thinking, wow.
Doug Adams:And your practice Primal is just a shining example of, like, what we should aspire to have for our practices. And I just started thinking like, what did you know, how does JJ do that? Like, how did she develop that level of expertise? And, you know, and and what are some of the similarities? Because we've taken similar but different paths.
Doug Adams:And I think we always talk about test, retest. Yeah. And I think if you're not doing test, retest, you have to do that. Right. That's would bring up the entire profession.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Right.
Doug Adams:But I do think that there's a missing step that you've done and that I've tried to do as well. And I think it's really important, and we talked about this even when we talked about research, is you have to write it down actually. Yeah. Like you actually have and there's different ways to do that. So what I mean by you have to write it down is there this is more on the business side, but I, you know, have some people that work with me in my company, and we started talking about things, and we we started realizing that you never really fully understand something until you write it down.
Doug Adams:Yeah. Because when you write it down, you start to see the holes. And you start to feel like, oh and I think something as complex as treating a patient.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Right.
Doug Adams:There are so many influences and factors that go into it. And if you wanna develop true expertise, you need to take those factors and see which are the most important. And can you simplify it and break it down and break it down and break it down even more to find a way that you can simply write it down. And this is something that I wish somebody had encouraged me to do earlier on in my career. That when I'm working with patients, understanding what is my methodology and like why did that work Yeah.
Doug Adams:And actually write it down and do a little journaling and do a little self discovery.
Dr. JJ Thomas:I love that.
Doug Adams:And say like, hey, when I see this Like it it could be as simple as it. Here's here's a practical example. Okay? Yeah. You treat somebody with low back pain and you find that when they have pain that points at the PSIS, you find that most of the time they're gonna have hip flexor issues that if you don't address the hip flexor, the pain will never truly go away.
Doug Adams:Right. Write it down and then start to take it to the next level and understand those patterns and the way that you got there. And then when that doesn't work for somebody go back to that and be like, Well, it didn't work for this person
Dr. JJ Thomas:Right.
Doug Adams:Because of what?
Dr. JJ Thomas:Why? Exactly.
Doug Adams:And the way that you and I have kind of done this is starting to do teaching.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Yeah. I was just thinking that.
Doug Adams:So that's the first step of of writing down. Teaching somebody else's material even.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Yeah.
Doug Adams:Like, just get used to teaching and understanding things written down and conveying it to somebody else.
Dr. JJ Thomas:It's funny because when I, mentored some, colleagues in the past before I even opened primal
Doug Adams:Yeah.
Dr. JJ Thomas:I was teaching dry needling, and I had some colleagues who were interested in they had just started dry needling. And they were like, I don't know. I just don't feel very confident. And I was like, you wanna get confident, you teach it. Yeah.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Like, when you stand in front of people and you have to then teach them, it's just like you said. The holes will come out. And, yeah, I mean, honestly, when I first started teaching, I would, even, like, I would spend time in the hotel room, just like you're saying, writing down all of my thoughts, all of my, and and it had to makes it had to be systematic, and it had to be organized, and it had to be packaged in a way that was swallowable. Yeah. So you're a 100% right.
Doug Adams:And it doesn't like, you can start teaching your patients. Yeah. You can start teaching your colleagues. Yes. You don't have to go teach for a big company or start your own courses or things.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Or you could even just I like how you're saying write it down. Like, you could even just make it your own resource.
Doug Adams:Yeah. If you had a manual for you. Yeah. Right? Yeah.
Doug Adams:Let's say, hopefully this doesn't happen to you, somebody has a traumatic brain injury. Right.
Dr. JJ Thomas:And they're
Doug Adams:like, I need to start over.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Right.
Doug Adams:Like, well, let me read this and start over.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Right.
Doug Adams:And if you had that manual, I think people's level of expertise would significantly improve.
Dr. JJ Thomas:I think that's brilliant. Yeah. You're right. Write it down. Put it in a Yeah.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Put it just put it in a package.
Doug Adams:I always wish I had done this coming out of school, and maybe this is a new app idea, a new business idea for somebody that wants to go out there and develop it. But like, you know, my clinical journal or something. But there's even exercises Smart. That I used to use all the time. Yeah.
Doug Adams:And then I completely forget about them.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Yes.
Doug Adams:And I don't use them for a day, a week, a month, a year, a decade.
Dr. JJ Thomas:And all of a sudden.
Doug Adams:And then I come back just like, why am I not doing this exercise Yeah. Anymore? Like, I should totally I was like rolling. Right? The neurodiversity.
Dr. JJ Thomas:I love rolling.
Doug Adams:I love rolling. And I there was like a period of 2 or 3 years that I didn't have anybody roll. But there was before that, I had everybody roll.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Yep.
Doug Adams:And I would love to just be able to go back and flip through that manual
Dr. JJ Thomas:You're right.
Doug Adams:And just say, like, oh, why was it or why did I think that? Yeah. Oh, okay. Well, now I need to update that one because that is like, I need a version 2024.
Dr. JJ Thomas:It's true. Yeah. It's funny because my rolling progression now is, like, Turkish get up Yeah. Regressions. Yeah.
Doug Adams:When I did the foundations, course, I was like, this is great. Yeah. Like, we we did a whole lab on those Turkish get ups. Yeah. And then I remember you and I practicing Turkish get ups.
Dr. JJ Thomas:We were like, which leg goes up?
Doug Adams:Yeah. We were in the clinic and we were like on that mat Yeah. By where we did the notes, and we would do the exercises. Yeah. It was, like
Dr. JJ Thomas:It's funny. Back to your, like, I think the the writing things down, that taking it to another level of expertise.
Doug Adams:Yeah.
Dr. JJ Thomas:So just to summarize because I think we we have just to unpack a lot of what you just said just there is, if a clinician and we do have a lot of younger clinicians on the podcast. I'm really glad we're talking about this Yeah. Or listening to the podcast. If a clinician really wants to be great Mhmm. Test, retest is critical.
Doug Adams:Absolutely.
Dr. JJ Thomas:But take it a step further and write it down in some way shape or form whether that turns into you teaching. You know, maybe you just have rounds with your other colleagues. Like, maybe you have lunch hours with your colleagues in the clinic, and you guys discuss. We do this after our meetings, still because you do. Once you share and even audit like, audibly share what you see, the patterns start to become ingrained.
Dr. JJ Thomas:But but when you really write it down, you can go back to it. Yeah. The other for those students that are listening
Doug Adams:Mhmm.
Dr. JJ Thomas:The other thing that you just said that I feel like I feel compelled to share is when I was in PT school, I don't know if I ever told you this, but I I would get lost in the in the in, like, the words a lot. So the way I studied was literally to write down I I outlined every chapter.
Doug Adams:Really?
Dr. JJ Thomas:And then I would outline my outline, and then I would outline my outline, and then I would outline my outline.
Doug Adams:Pare it down.
Dr. JJ Thomas:So it was like and then all of a sudden, it was like, shrink wrapping just like your Yeah. RunDNA courses. Yeah. But, like, all of a sudden, this very complex thing made sense on a fundamental level.
Doug Adams:Right. Sunrise it in 3 points.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Yeah. Yeah. So, for those of you that are still in school Yeah. It's a really great way to study too.
Doug Adams:And get started. Make it a habit Yeah. Type thing. And because it's even easier now. Right?
Doug Adams:You can just start a note on your phone. Yeah. And whatever, like, whatever medium makes you most excited to do it that way.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Yeah. And most, like, regular.
Doug Adams:Yes.
Dr. JJ Thomas:What's consistent? Consistent. Thank you.
Doug Adams:Yeah. Yeah. Because that's, I mean, that's a huge part of it too. I think a lot of times people feel like they have to do things certain ways because other people do. Right.
Doug Adams:I've learned over the years. I've had so many different ways of doing things and systems. Yeah. And I the ones that work the best are the ones that I'm most excited about.
Dr. JJ Thomas:That's right.
Doug Adams:I always I would love to be somebody that carries a notebook around and like take notes and things like that. No. I carry a phone and keys. I wanna get like as minimal stuff in my pocket Right. As possible.
Doug Adams:Yeah. And so for me, I just keep a bunch of notes.
Dr. JJ Thomas:I do too. Yeah. On my phone. Yeah. I just use my phone, and I have a couple pinned at the top.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Damn. And then I have, like, a 1,000 below that. But, yeah. Yeah.
Doug Adams:And I go back and review them Yes. Every once in a while and be, like, oh, alright. I should do something about this note, or let's delete that one. That one wasn't so good.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Yes. You're right. I know. It's awesome.
Doug Adams:It's like you have to have a way to capture it pretty quickly in the moment too. It's it doesn't have to be sophisticated, but I I think we should all strive for expertise. I think I I don't I I would be curious. Please leave me a comment in the show notes. But I'd be curious if anyone, like, doesn't wanna be an expert on
Dr. JJ Thomas:what they do. I feel like the people listening
Doug Adams:to this podcast do. I would a
Dr. JJ Thomas:100% agree. But I a 100%, unfortunately feel like not everyone is there. Yeah. But I and that's why I I also think part of the limitation with those that are not there are that maybe they have they feel it's overwhelming to to learn. Like Yeah.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Some of the courses, some of the some of the learning opportunities are overwhelming. And I think so finding the ones that are like yours that are so well put together and so and and supportive even after like, you know how it is. A lot of courses give you a lot of great content
Doug Adams:Yeah.
Dr. JJ Thomas:And then you leave the weekend, like, oh god. I don't know what to do with this.
Doug Adams:Yes.
Dr. JJ Thomas:But, like, your courses are something that they get a lot of content and a lot of understanding and foundational knowledge, but then you also have this support that trickles afterward that they can implement it Yeah. Which is huge. So my advice to the people that aren't listening, that don't aren't pursuing being the experts right now is to find courses that are are more manageable and give them support afterwards. So
Doug Adams:And same with foundations course. I mean, we my whole clinic went to that, and then it was, like, everyone was just having fun after it immediately applying it there. And that's the type of education that you should really look for because that that does make a a big difference. Yeah. And so on the way up, on the same kind of point, hopefully we're not beating it to death here, but I was listening to this book and it was talking it gave an example of Warren Buffett and about wealth generation.
Doug Adams:Yeah. And it was really interesting, and I think the same thing for clinical expertise. What they're doing what Warren Buffett is doing is looking to add marginal wealth over time that creates very big wealth. So for people that are worried about can I be an expert or can I do this, it doesn't have to happen tomorrow?
Dr. JJ Thomas:Yeah.
Doug Adams:Right? Like, you write 1 or 2 of these things down.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Right.
Doug Adams:If you write down 1 a month, 1 a quarter, like, well, alright. You developed that. Well, now you can build the next one, and then you've got this other one Yeah. That you can go forward with.
Dr. JJ Thomas:No. I'm glad you said that because, actually, as physical therapists, I think what we try to promote in patients Mhmm. Is what my husband, the finance guy, calls aggregation of marginal gains.
Doug Adams:Yeah.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Right? Like, we want patients to just do a little bit of the right things. Right? Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. JJ Thomas:You know, fan finance guys are fancy. But but that's what we're trying to gain in physical in patients Yeah. As physical therapists is, like, do a like, we're, like, look. Do this stretch consistently
Doug Adams:Yeah.
Dr. JJ Thomas:For 90 seconds a day. You know? Not nothing big, and it'll pay out. And it's the same thing with learning. So, yeah.
Dr. JJ Thomas:That's good.
Doug Adams:And same thing with running. It's anything. Right? Yeah. I mean I just came off like this winter.
Doug Adams:I did I I gave myself like an off season Yeah. Where I was just like, I'm just gonna run slow Yeah. For the entire winter. I'm gonna run on the treadmill. I'm not gonna run outside.
Doug Adams:I'm gonna make it easy. Amazing. And now I'm like kind of, I'm gearing up for this challenge I'm doing.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Okay.
Doug Adams:And it's amazing how having that consistency and that base and that foundation
Dr. JJ Thomas:Yeah.
Doug Adams:Is just making it so much easier. And that's the same thing with whatever you're doing.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Everything.
Doug Adams:Yeah.
Dr. JJ Thomas:I know. And so like you're saying back to that, we are beating a dead horse, but I think it's not a dead horse. It would it would make the horse alive if you, yeah. Just write down one thing a month. I love that.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Great. One other thought with that, my 16 year old just started reading the book. Ian just started reading the book, Atomic Habits. Oh. That was so cute.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Love Atomic Habits. Yeah. And I haven't read it. I've never
Doug Adams:read it after. Newsletter from him? No. Oh, you have to get the 321. Okay.
Doug Adams:He it's like, it's almost I don't know. Growing up, like, not super religious now, but like growing up I had this, we went to this church at University of Delaware and it felt like the priest would just like follow you around for a week and tell you what you needed to hear.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Oh my gosh.
Doug Adams:He was great.
Dr. JJ Thomas:It was a good thing?
Doug Adams:He was just a phenomenal. You're like, wow. How did you know I needed to hear that right now?
Dr. JJ Thomas:Right. That's so funny.
Doug Adams:But the James Clear, his newsletter is just amazing because he does like, I forget the it's like 3 things to think about, 2 quotes, and one question.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Oh, I love that.
Doug Adams:And it's every Thursday, and it comes out.
Dr. JJ Thomas:That's great.
Doug Adams:And it's great.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Okay.
Doug Adams:And it's very it's there's always one of those things is always, like, timely information. If he's, like, he's kinda, like, following me around.
Dr. JJ Thomas:How did he know?
Doug Adams:How did he know that?
Dr. JJ Thomas:In my iPhone too.
Doug Adams:Yes. But Sorry.
Dr. JJ Thomas:The No. I love that because I'm gonna sign up for it.
Doug Adams:Yeah.
Dr. JJ Thomas:And that's my point was, like, there was I was so proud. I was listening to him, and I'm, like, he's he's telling me first thing this morning. He's like, mom, I was reading last night. He's like, the the book's great. It's like, you know, if you get 1% better every day, you know, 1% better every week, whatever it is, and you'll be so much better later and
Doug Adams:And it's all about process. Right? Yeah. So because that that book was great for me, but it also shook me a little bit. Yeah.
Doug Adams:I have this habit where, like, January 1st is one of my favorite days of the year.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Okay.
Doug Adams:I sit down for 8 hours and write goals.
Dr. JJ Thomas:I love that.
Doug Adams:I just spend the whole day, and I, like, deep dive into goals.
Dr. JJ Thomas:I'm sure you do.
Doug Adams:I do, like, a pre mortem. I say, like, why am I gonna fail at this goal? I think about strategies and obstacles, and I write up the whole thing. But the atomic habits is kind of like, don't write goals.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Oh, really?
Doug Adams:It's not don't write goals. Like, you can still have goals to make sure that you're going that way. Mhmm. But it says not as important as a goal
Dr. JJ Thomas:is of how
Doug Adams:you get there.
Dr. JJ Thomas:That is I could totally see that.
Doug Adams:Yeah. Yeah. Because if you miss the goal but you're still better, fine.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Yeah. Great.
Doug Adams:Right? You're moving in the right direction. Yeah. And it's the same thing. If you're right the process of writing things down in clinic
Dr. JJ Thomas:Is gonna accumulate.
Doug Adams:Is gonna accumulate and you'll get better over time. So that's that's all my must read recommended list. I'm surprised you you do a lot of stuff. I'm surprised you haven't read that book.
Dr. JJ Thomas:I haven't, But I will. I love it sounds great.
Doug Adams:Yeah. Yeah. That's a great one for you.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Doug, I think we're out of time.
Doug Adams:Yeah. But,
Dr. JJ Thomas:we could Doug and I could talk for literally hours, so we'll probably have you back on. I know. So if you wanna know more about Doug's courses, which I would strongly suggest, go to is it rundna.com? Yes. Yeah.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Follow them on Instagram as well, run DNA.
Doug Adams:Run DNA system.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Run DNA system. That's right. Well, I post you guys all the time, so you could just keep following me on Instagram and check out when I post them. And, yeah, if you have any more questions on Doug's team and amazing the work they do, feel free to reach out to me, reach out to him, as well, and look forward to catching you soon.
Doug Adams:Thanks so much for having me.
Dr. JJ Thomas:Thanks, Doug.