Words of Radiance Part 6 - Brandon Sanderson - Fantasy Book - Progression Fantasy Book

Hey, Adventures, we are still on Roshar, discussing Words of Radiance. In this episode of the Side Quest Podcast, Slava and Jonathan delve into chapters 58 through 64 of Brandon Sanderson's 'Words of Radiance,' exploring character development, moral complexities, and the significance of interludes. They discuss Kaladin's impulsiveness, Lyft's unique abilities, Zeth's internal struggles, and Eshenai's transformation, highlighting the interconnectedness of characters within the Cosmere and the implications of their choices. Kaladin's struggles in prison lead to profound revelations, while Shalon navigates espionage and her evolving identity.

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(00:00) Intro
(01:36) What Are We Exploring Today: Chapters 58–64 of Words of Radiance
(13:40) Interlude Insights: Lift's Adventure
(24:14) Szeth-son-son-Vallano: The Truthless Assassin
(32:11) Eshonai's Transformation and the Stormform Debate
(37:00) The Prisoner's Dilemma
(40:01) Wit and the Nature of Stories
(43:02) Shallan's Journey of Self-Discovery
(50:52) The Davar Family Dynamics
(56:04) Kaladin's Solitude and Revelations
(01:01:02) Shallan's Espionage and Intrigue
(01:07:55) The Herald's Return and Conspiracies

Creators and Guests

Host

Jonathan

Host

Slava

Digital Strategist. Co-Host. Aspiring writer of stories.

What is The Side Quest Book Club Podcast?

If you’re a reader looking for something deeper or an indie author working on your book, The Side Quest Book Club is for you. We skip the usual book reviews and ratings. Each episode turns fun side quests into real lessons, so you’ll leave not just entertained, but with a better understanding of why storytelling matters.

Jonathan (00:10.478)
Good morning, good afternoon, and good night, wherever you're tuning in. We are Slava and Jonathan bringing you to SideQuest Podcast, where we talk about character development, stories, and all things that are world building. And we occasionally take SideQuests, because frankly, that's how conversations work. Just as a reminder, this whole show is spoiler heavy. So sit back, tune in, and join us on this episode of SideQuest.

Welcome back to Rojure. I bet you are, where the winds are blowin' and the storm fathers ragin'.

Happy to be here.

Slava (00:49.374)
S1 does, when you're a Stormfather.

Mm-hmm. Today we're going to dive into chapters 58 through 64, plus three interludes, in part six of Words of Radiance. Last episode, we got to have Spencer pop in from whatever he's up to over in the plains of Shinnivar. He will be back for the recap episode in episode 10. I'm trying to find a couple more guests to join us, both new and old, if they have some free space in their schedule. We'll see if I can make that happen.

Should I ping Sanderson just to be like, Hey, know it's, I know it's been a while since you wrote words of radiance, but would you like to join two random schlubs on the internet for a podcast? don't actually know all the details of all the things. please. thank you.

Disting-

Slava (01:36.482)
White gave us a share in his Instagram after we reached out so maybe Sanderson will do the same. That's true. Alright, here we go. We're getting into it. 58 Never Again. Kaladin in chains listens as Delnar argues on his behalf while Elokar berates Kaladin for besmirching a general and destroying their chance to defeat Sadius. Immediately, since Sadius uses a loophole to delay the duel.

That's true.

Slava (02:05.91)
Elokar threatens to have Kaladin executed for slander, but Dalinar says he won't stand for it. Elokar orders Kaladin to be imprisoned until further notice, which Dalinar accepts. Dalinar thanks Kaladin for saving Adaline Renarin, then berates him for rooting their plan to defeat Sadius, and for his allegations, which Dalinar has found 17 witnesses who testify in favor of Amram's statements.

Kaladin argues against his punishment, but Dalinar says that he will obey and serve his sentence. Saddias returns to his own quarters and contemplates his narrow escape. E.L.A. appears and Saddias orders her to find incriminating information about Dalinar, then have him assassinated. Kaladin is led to a prison cell in Dalinar's camp prison. He tells Syl that he will never trust Lideyes again.

Yeah, this is tough for Kaladin because he doesn't feel like he did anything wrong. And as the reader, we also don't feel like he did anything wrong because we know the story of how Amram killed his men. And...

he did plenty of things wrong. Am I right? No, Kaladin, as I read her, I find many things wrong with what he did. Impulsive, selfish, ruining plans of the people he's supposed to protect just because he sees an opportunity to seek revenge immediately. Does he really think that in front of, let's say, a couple of hundred light eyes, he's just going to get a duel with this guy? The guy that killed all his friends and stole the sharp blade?

lay it on us.

Slava (03:49.344)
is just gonna go, yeah, okay, let's fight here, Bridge Boy.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Alucard is a douchebag about it, but Alucard is a douchebag in general. But Dalinar is right. When he talks to him later in the prison, he's like, what the hell, dude?

Mm-hmm. Well, that's because Dalinar is a great general. Yeah. Kaladin, don't forget he's depressed.

Yes, a 19. I get it. That doesn't take away from the fact that he did not do the right thing here. And this reader's opinion. But tell me why you think he's right.

Jonathan (04:11.724)
considered killing himself.

Jonathan (04:18.178)
Yes, I've gathered that.

He just saved Adolin and Renarin first time.

That deserves a duel with Amaram. Okay. Please continue.

I haven't finished.

Jonathan (04:31.63)
He saved Adolin twice now. He saved Dalinar once. He's trustworthy and loyal. Like, yeah, he's still a child. And honestly, there's a line coming up in, when does Dalinar go talk to him in the prison? Yeah. Dalinar shows up and salutes him by reflex. So chapter 62, which we should be getting to. Yeah, 64. There's a line in here that I absolutely love because it addresses things that you brought up.

chapters after this I think

Jonathan (05:01.942)
of like, was selfish, blah, whatever. Cause Dalinar talks to him and he's like, son, you've got a chip on your shoulder, the size of a boulder. And it's like, does, he does. What I'm saying is I don't think that it's unjustified. Like if you had, let's say that his platoon, I don't remember how many were in it. Let's say there's 12 men and your 12 men had their throats slit in front of you. You would be upset too. Men that you served with, men that you defended and like saved their lives.

both in terms on the battlefield and like revive them afterward, like you would be upset too. That's why I'm saying as the reader, we understand why it feels justified that he does it. I'm not saying objectively, you know, there's an objective morality on Roshar because we're talking about a group of people, the Alethi, who are the equivalent of the Mongols going across the countryside and slaughtering whomever they need to to take over land. I'm not saying there's an objective morality. I'm just saying that we as the reader understand why this was

the case.

Well, what Dallner says is very on point here. What you did today was a wonder in protecting my sons. You justified my faith in you before the entire court. Unfortunately, you then threw it away and he did.

Yeah, and this is just where I disagree. It's like if you do something like that, where you fight four shardbearers with a spear. Yeah, in terms of like the Alethi court, sure, you threw it away. In terms, again, as the reader, it's like, yes, that was a wonder. And should that not allow for some, leniency isn't the right word, should not that allow for, I guess I'll say it, like a reward of some kind?

Slava (06:39.682)
Sure, but not Amoram's head right then and there. That politics, bad planning, it's impulsive. It betrays their position, their little chess moves they're making. It betrays him and Dallinor in that regard. So it's impulsive. Like, sure, Amoram deserves to get his throat slid just like a dog for what he did. But there's a place and a time, and sometimes it's a waiting game for these things.

And I understand that Caledon is morose. He's depressed. He has a chip on his shoulder. He has this distaste rightfully. So for Amoram, this is not the place to do it. He just acted impulsively and I get it in the heat of the moment. He's like, this is my chance to get the guy, definitely wasn't a chance to get the guy because what he won there and then lost.

Mm-hmm.

Jonathan (07:34.55)
was being put in prison.

When he won there, now that's his own doing. didn't win that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm being funny.

What he won there was clout with the king, clout with all the princes, clout with the court in general. And now Dalner can say, look, we must unite. Caledon is an example of why the Stormfather is on my side, yada, yada, yada. Yep. And that was all thrown in the trash and puked on because he couldn't wait a month to kill the guy.

Yeah, yeah, I'm not arguing against his impulsiveness. I will pose a question though, partly because I don't remember, partly to poke another stick at the bear here. Did Dalinar give Kaladin all the details of his plan or Adolin?

Slava (08:21.674)
No, but he's a go-

Correct. Correct. Exactly. So how would he know? So like, why are we holding him accountable?

You should know.

I'm just saying, I'm just saying if he doesn't have all the details, because he did this before in Way of Kings when he taught the men to throw the bridge. Now when he's a bridgeman, I think that's different because he was literally a slave. Now though, Dalinar knows he's earned the right to be told things, right? He saved his life. And so like if Dalinar hasn't given Kaladin all the details and he knows, you think Dalinar doesn't know that Kaladin's brash?

and like impulsive.

Slava (09:01.388)
And maybe that's why he doesn't have all the details because he's brash and impulsive and Dallin is not gonna tell some kid who's brash and impulsive all the details of the plan.

But he trusted him to try to find who killed the king. I'm just saying. That's true. It is his job. He gets fears for that. I'm just saying how can we hold someone accountable? And it doesn't negate his impulsiveness. like understood, heard, agreed, right? How can we hold someone to the same level of accountability of like he should have waited. And these are kind of tied at the hip. So I guess I can't say that his impulsiveness like has to be factored in. When he doesn't have all the details.

even like nuances of the details. I can't remember a scene where, and this is like a storytelling rabbit trail kind of thing. I can't remember a scene where Dalinar has him around and is like, we're going to win lots of shards through Adolin's dueling. We're going to catch Sadius, blah, blah, blah. Because-

It literally happens. Kaladin is now invited to stay with all the family meetings.

He's not always there though, because we also see his schedule is crazy. And this is what I'm saying is I don't remember a scene where he's exactly there. I remember some of Bridge 4 being there.

Slava (10:14.402)
And I remember seeing him being there because it made the King and Adolin question Dalinar. And he's like, no, he's our guard. He needs to know if he doesn't know, it puts us in danger. I need my team. I'm paraphrasing. I need my team to be fully aware.

Okay, and this is why I said I'm poking the bear and also don't remember, because it's been a minute since I read Words of Radiance.

Once you read more of the Cosmere Jonathan, you'll understand the intricacies of Sanderson's writing. For those who can't see, he just took off his headphones and walked away.

You're gonna apologize in public to me? my gosh, you full jack wagon here. So I didn't hear what you said when I walked away.

Was that impulsive?

Slava (10:53.27)
I said ladies and gentlemen who walked away from the mic

You explain why though. You didn't explain why.

Well, they just heard why. I know. Explain why. Give them the backstory. Yeah.

No no no no no

Here, this is the truth, people. This is the objective truth here. So earlier this week, Slava finished Mistborn and was berating.

Slava (11:14.962)
I was underwhelmed.

by how much he hated the book. He doesn't love Sanderson anymore, et cetera, et cetera. There's a little bit of emphasis on the emotions here that may or may not have happened. It could be a re-dramatization. Anyway, he didn't like Mistborn, so fine, whatever. And he's poking and prodding and Spencer and I for extra details. And he's like, yeah, probably just not gonna read the rest of it. So I, as a good friend, and one of his premises is, I don't read books the same way you guys do. Okay, fair.

We've talked about that on the podcast, if you're a regular listener, like Slava and I read books differently. Super fair. So then I, knowing Slava for, is it almost 20 years now? Something like that? Knowing that Slava is kind of at his edge of like, yeah, he's probably not going to read this stuff anymore. So I'll just give him a bunch of download details in the juice. I'm going to give him the juice to understand like why he should keep reading this about Scadrial and Mistborn and the connection with Stormline Archive, et cetera.

about that.

Jonathan (12:13.27)
and give him a full download of as much as I can remember on the spot of all the details of the Cosmere and their connections to encourage him to read more books that he found underwhelming. So his joke here about, you you'll understand more when you read more of the Cosmere, Jonathan, is a moment, a jab, betrayal from a close friend. Might we even call him Moash? You're officially-

You'd called Amoram than Moash, Sadius, Sadius, excuse me.

Yeah, I mean, I'm...

I'm just pronouncing the bastard's name.

Yeah. But anyway, that's why I walked away, folks. I can't deal with the, the sheer impulsiveness of a creature like slob. Yes. Yes. You're just a.

Slava (13:02.209)
I'm a creature now.

I see anger spren coming up from the back of your script.

Oh my gosh, so just give me give me some comments folks. Do you ever do you got a you got a jack wagon like Slava in your life?

Everybody has a Slava in their life. So it makes your lives more rosy and fun, enjoyable. Otherwise you'd be drab.

Yeah, a regular draft, give our breather away and just keep living our lives. Anyway, that's chapter 58, Never Again. Title appropriately.

Slava (13:40.886)
And we quickly are brought into interludes nine, 10, and 11. Three interludes. The first one, or nine, first one in this episode is called lift. You want to give us a quick overview of this fairly long interlude?

Yeah, and once I do, I don't think we've talked about Lyft on the show, if ever in a long time, because Way of Kings was a very early piece of the show. I know that you read...

Edgedancer.

Yep. So I want to get your opinion on her after I give this overview. So Lyft and six other thieves climb over a wall of the Bronze Palace as they intend to rob it while a new Prime Aqua 6 is being chosen by the Vessorette. Lyft sees Nail in the distance and frets that he is still pursuing her somehow. The thieves climb over the palace wall and Lyft chats with her spren, Windel.

who says that he wanted to choose someone else with whom to bond, but ended up with Lyft. Wa-wa, it's a really good day when your friend decides to tell you that they don't like you. Since she had visited the Old Magic, which that's a question I want to ask you after this of like, is the Old Magic and what do you think about it from what you understand. Lyft and Windle bicker as they infiltrate the palace. Hewquin says that they are to steal clothes which aren't well guarded, but will sell for a lot. Lyft.

Jonathan (15:10.146)
disobeys Hewquin and wanders the palace with Gawks. Accompanying her, Lyft tells Gawks that she wants to steal the Prime's food and she heads towards the Prime's chambers. Well, he goes to the Vizier quarters to find spheres. Wendell helps her further infiltrate the palace while he teaches Lyft about Sprint and her odd ability to convert food to Stormlight. Lyft sneaks into the dining area and hides under the table as the Vizieret reviews applications for Emperor.

Lyft listens as they debate what to do since no one wants to be primed due to the recent assassinations. She steals a deneral, then hesitates as she notices that Nail is there. She tries to flee, but is caught. And Nail has her arrested and tells the visorat that he has the proper forms. She tries to use her ability to escape, but is inhibited by a Larkin, which drains her Stormlight. Which that's another super interesting thing because we've met a Larkin before from Risen.

So put a pin in that. The head vizier protests that Lyft will be executed for mere thievery, but Nail adds that the crimes of her trespass and interrupting the Holy Conclave in session would say otherwise. Lyft escapes long enough to get half-eaten roll, which she quickly eats before being captured again. After a short time, Lyft gains Stormlight to evade her captors, though she sees that Nail has abilities also as he chases her carrying a shard blade. One of Nail's companions slits Gawk's throat and Nail recaptures Lyft.

then berates his ally for killing the boy without filling out the correct paperwork. Yes, murder is okay if you've filled out the right forms and submitted them in an orderly fashion. Lyft escapes, but then decides to save Gawks because someone has to care. And Windel says that her regrowth ability could help him if she was more trained. She returns to Gawks' body and breathes Stormlight into his mouth before Nail again captures her and identifies her as an edge dancer.

Bureaucracy.

Jonathan (17:08.394)
and tells her about the order. Nail says he hunts her because her abilities could bring Desolations back to the world. Nail draws his shardblade to kill her, but she suddenly is pardoned by the new Prime Aqua Six, Gawks, who was elected due to his miracle survival. Nail obeys the pardon to release Lyft and praises Ysir and leaves. Lyft congratulates Gawks on his election and asks for food.

Yes, Lyft does. He's a hungry girl.

Yeah. So she is, she also has a weird ability that only she has of eating and turning it into Stormlight because of the old magic. So this is a really, this is before Edge Dancer came out, right, as a book. And it's the type of thing that Sanderson loves to do in the Cosmere where he like gives us a chapter or a book that reveals a whole bunch of stuff in the Cosmere. So give us a breakdown of your thoughts on Lyft.

Mm-hmm.

Jonathan (18:05.314)
This chapter, Edge Dancer as a whole, the questions that come up here, the things that are similar, like she breathes Stormlight into his mouth, like that sounds pretty familiar. And anyway, take it away.

Yeah.

Slava (18:19.278)
Well, let's start with the Old Magic. It's kind of wild stuff. From my research, I found that Old Magic is a form of an investiture that actually predates spren and the bonds that they have with humans. And so this is an ancient power. It's tied to the Old Gods of Roshar, Wind, Stone, and the Knight. They are also not just like metaphors for gods.

They are considered actual forces that embody the old magic via beings. Over time though, when people say old magic now in the timeframe of these books, they're usually referring to only one of those beings, which is the night watcher. Just like us, no one on Roshar really understands the full scope of the old magic anymore. Maybe that's because information has been lost and no one's confirmed to be using it in any traditional sense outside of what

beings.

Slava (19:16.074)
Night Watchers influences, which I don't know anything about. Correct me if I'm wrong, it's kind of like a boon and curse system. Yes. Right? So someone visits the Night Watcher asking for something, a boon, and she grants it, but there's always a catch, a curse, a monkey's paw kind of deal. And it's not always connected to the boon. So you might ask for wisdom and end up seeing the world upside down forever kind of deal, right?

So it's a chaotic deal making and it's sort of connected to the Arcanum or the Arse Arcanum who calls the old magic a cousin to void binding, which suggests that it isn't just a spiritual hocus pocus, but there's a structure to it. It's a magical system in and of itself. So bottom line for me, old magic is ancient, dangerous, and nobody knows how far it goes.

pretty accurate so you'll learn more about the Old Magic and Oathbringer and I will tell you that Dalinar went to the Old Magic at some point.

and his visions or in person. Yeah.

No. Person.

Jonathan (20:26.956)
Be sure to drop us a rating and help us spread the word if you're enjoying today's sidequest.

your second question or I'm taking them out of order, but your other question was Lyft. Lyft's fun. I didn't like her the first read through of Edge Dancer. was like, she's annoying and shut up Lyft. But she's more fun upon this revisit and thinking back on what I did read in Edge Dancer when I read this interlude, I was like, she actually kind of is a fun character. Nail's very interesting. I found it fascinating that.

Mm-hmm.

Slava (21:01.938)
Zeth Sanvalano was also around in the book edge dancer with what appears to be night blood. So fun stuff. Good old Sanderson weaving things together, dropping hints and annoying the crap out of readers in the best way possible. So I love it.

Nail has been doing a lot more in the background, which we get to see in books four and five of Stormlight, more so, which shouldn't be a surprise. Books one and two, you just kind of get snippets. Edge Dancer, you get like a little bit more from him as a whole. But he is, I might get this wrong. He's the herald of justice, I want to say.

Isn't he the guy that kills the cobbler or the store owner in a previous interlude?

Yes, I don't think it's an interlude though. I thought it happened that happened in edge dancer, but I could be wrong

Now I'm in an interlude in this book where he finds a guy helping a little kid all in his life.

Jonathan (21:58.662)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nail's entire mission at the moment is to kill everyone who is showing signs of becoming a radiant in order to prevent the desolations.

Gotcha, okay. That all makes sense now. Very cool.

But he's a herald. So back in the prologue of Way of Kings or whatever it's called before the prologue, we see his sword and Jezrean, I think is talking to Nael, if I remember correctly, in that narrative, which happens a thousand years beforehand. Anyway, that's just a little detail. My third question for you, so it was old magic lift and then...

What do you think about the fact that she breathes into Gawks' mouth and he comes back to life?

That was kind of reminiscent of Warbreaker for me, Breaths. Yep. Stormlight and Breaths Married. Yeah.

Jonathan (22:56.736)
It is. We don't have a lot of details on that. I will say that Sanderson has said for a while that Lyft is a special character to him as an author and he's saving her for something important. We don't know what that is yet. We have inklings now that we've read book five. Well, I've read book five, but I will tell you, and this is spoiler for anyone who's listening, cause that's what we're doing, is Lyft at some point could be trained by the one and only Vassher.

Of since Vacher's old deal is training people.

Training radiance who, what did he say earlier in the book? In this shack, the first one doesn't like be woken up at night and the second one has a compassion for bridge boys who are in over their head. It's really just radiance who are in over their head. But that's a fun little thing here.

So moving on, we are with Zeth San Sanvalano, truthless of Shinovarr. He is sitting atop the highest tower in the world and is contemplating the end of all things. The souls of the people he had murdered are lurking in the shadows. They whisper to him. If he draws close to them, they scream. They also scream when he shuts his eyes. And now I'm going to read from the book he had taken to blinking as little as possible.

His eyes fell dry in his skull. It was what any sane man would do. So we have him dwelling on his oath and his errant banishment for being wrong about the return of the Radiance. He leaves the tower to seek answers or to kill someone of his own choosing. you know, Zeth.

Jonathan (24:39.746)
Did I show you the statue that I have of him? I think maybe I have of him fighting Kaladin from the end of words of radiance on the tube. Yeah. It's super cool. actually, so that was a Kickstarter and I received it and it was damaged. And when I say damaged, the magnet was just not as strong as it's supposed to be because it was covered up by some resin. So I wrote him a quick email, right. And.

Maybe.

Slava (24:48.27)
Oh yeah, yeah that was pretty cool.

Jonathan (25:09.4)
They sent me a second one. So you know what I did with the first one? Gave it to Spencer. Yes, close second, because that statue was like, I don't know, $700 or something like that from the Kickstarter. I was like, they didn't ask me to return it, because, and which makes sense, like, you're doing a Kickstarter, you know that some stuff's not going to be printed as accurately or whatever. But the thing is, like, the second one they sent me also had problems, so whatever.

Nice. Sold on eBay. What a good friend.

Jonathan (25:37.794)
But still cool that I was able to like gift that to another Cosmerian.

Very cool. Very cool. Any thoughts on Seth Sanvalano, Truthless of Shinobar? Going insane.

Mm-hmm.

Jonathan (25:51.454)
Yeah, we never get an answer to the fact that he's just sitting on your theory and like, he's known about it the whole time. But that's also like, that's got it. You know, that's like autistic basically, in my opinion. He just, he, he only does what he's told and nothing else. Very literal. Right. So he just has all this information and just like never shares it.

He's on the spectrum.

Slava (26:08.526)
Very literalistic.

Slava (26:15.982)
because it hasn't been tilt to share it.

Correct. Correct. But he's like sitting on top of Eurotheru, which, you know, people are trying to find. They've been spending hundreds of years trying to find and they can't. But there's also like this weird thing from Shinnowar where Shinnowar has been the stewards of holding on to all of the blades of the heralds. So the blades of the heralds are not sharp blades. They come from ash. Actually, I might be getting a little bit of this wrong. They were given to them.

in the early days of Roshar and the blades themselves are imbue power for each of the orders. So there's 10 blades. We see these blades shoved into stone at the beginning of Way of Kings with Jezrean and again, I think it was Nael. So Zeth has the wind runner blade when he's doing all these assassinations, it gives him the powers of a wind runner because he's maintaining the blade. but it's not a shard blade in the same sense of like other shard blades, cause those are made for

conversational purposes, those are made of different materials basically from what we understand.

Well, help me understand something else. I'm going to read a bit more from the book and I want you to talk to me and the audience. fought an impossibility. A man would storm like a man who knew the storm within that meant. Problems years ago, Zeth had been banished for raising the alarm, the false alarm. had been said the void bringers are no more. told him the spirits of the stones themselves promised it.

Slava (27:49.422)
The powers of old are no more. The night's radiant are fallen. We are all that remains. All that remains. Truthless. Have I not been faithful? said Sheldt, finally looking up to face the sun. His voice echoed against the mountains and their spirit cells. Have I not obeyed? Kept my oath? Have I not done as you demanded of me? The killing, the murder, he blinked tired eyes, screams.

What does it mean if the shaman te are wrong? What does it mean if they banished me in error? It meant the end of all things, the end of truth. would mean nothing made sense and that his oath was meaningless. It would mean he had killed for no reason. I think that's a very powerful section of internal dialogue. So who are his people?

Mm-hmm.

My questions are as follows. You'll have to remember. Who are his people? Not just their name, but who are they? And why would him raising these alarms cause such a punishment? Instead of just telling him to shut up or locking him away in a tower, because he's a crazy person in their eyes, why would that cause his banishment? And how does his banishment make him a mindless killer for anybody who hires him? Lay it on us.

of our

Jonathan (29:17.056)
So he's from Shinovarr. His culture is Shinovarian. His people basically refuse to believe that the radiance are back because they've been told that they're not. so someone who preaches otherwise is a heretic, truthless, as he says. So he's banished and given an oath stone. It's a culture thing, right? Like the Shinovarr culture, which interesting thing about Shinovarr, they're the first humans to come to Roshar, which

has implications later in other books, or sorry, yeah, in other Stormlight books. What's weird about the Shin of Arc culture is they hold the blades from the heralds and have the ability to use the powers. They actually have like temples where some of their specific peoples, Zeth is one of them, are encouraged and chosen to train with each blade so they can master all the powers because the blade gives the powers.

but they weren't necessarily radiance themselves. So like, if you're not holding the blade, you don't have the power. So it's not like a direct answer because I can't recall us getting answers to those questions exactly as much as it's just like, it's a culture thing. Their culture is weird. But to me, it's even weirder because they have, well, they had all 10 blades and they practiced with all 10 blades and Zeth was the best of the best of them. If he was handed any of the other blades, he knows how to use it from our understanding entirely. But that's like a little bit of...

Book five spoiler stuff, because in book five we get Zeth's backstory, which is fun.

Okay. Yeah. You don't need to spoil wind of truth for me. That I'll patiently wait for. But then the second question is why the banishment and how does he get stuck in this oath thing that he has.

Jonathan (31:07.896)
So that again is a culture thing. Like part of their culture is if you're banished, you can be given an oath stone. You have to adhere to your oaths. And so, you know, it's this little rock with a line of courts in it and he's just kind of sent on his way. And then the first person to say, Hey, I'm your owner. And then he hands them the stone and then he, you know, is slowly traded otherwise. like in terms of why they do it, they're just a weird culture, man. Like, I don't know. I don't remember any of those answers are going to come in book five. So I don't really.

And I've only read it once, you know, a couple months ago. So, and there's way too much other stuff going on that distract from the exact details of a question like that. So not trying to avoid it. It's just a difficult question to answer because you're asking about the nuances of a single culture in Rochar or on Rochar. So all that to say that's the best answer that I can kind of give, you know.

Makes sense.

Slava (32:05.282)
Sounds good. Well, let's move on to Interlude 11, New Rhythms.

Eshenai tries to shoo away a spren, but fails. She attunes her old rhythms as the new ones that she was listening to, which had voices that gave advice, tended to make other people nervous. She meets the others of the ruling council with her sister, Venli, having taken storm form as well. Eshenai tells them that they need to transform more of their people to be ready for the Alethi push towards Narok, so they can summon a high storm to use as a weapon. Eshenai tunes out the voices

with the screaming and attunes Joy and tells how awesome she feels. Zuln descends from Eshenai's proposal saying it is not right. The meeting breaks up and Venli and Eshenai discuss their options for getting consensus from the plan, getting consensus on their plan and Venli says that she knows what the Stormfather would do to Eshenai, angering her sister. Eshenai asks how Venli knew, but she doesn't answer.

Eshenai addresses a crowd and tells them that the five want to forbid the form, the new form, but that she will allow anyone who wishes to join her in a high storm to transform. Then she generates a miniature storm for them to see and demonstrates her new abilities, impressing the onlookers. She then asks for volunteers from her soldiers for the new form and is happy that almost no one refuses her.

She then tells the soldiers that she wants to transform all of the civilians also and has them go through the city to get volunteers and segregate anyone who refuses the transformation. That sounds a lot like World War II. Anyway, Venly says that those unwilling to transform must be killed. That's a super a lot like World War II. And Eshenai says that that will happen after her soldiers all take Stormform. Abra Nye.

Slava (33:59.886)
Storm Soldiers.

to warm soldiers.

Coopers if you will.

You could call them SS, Storm Soldiers. It's way too cl-

That's what I was getting at. That's what on the nose, but that's what I...

Jonathan (34:11.15)
I'm making sure the audience got your reference. Abra and I refuses the transformation and is grouped with the dissenters along with Zuln. Thude confronts Eshenai on her changes in behavior and attitude, but she defends her actions as necessary for their people to survive.

Sounds like World War II.

It really does. Eshenai, it's bad, man. It's bad. Eshenai sends Thu to guard the dissenters, which include her own mother. Yes, in a camp. As she prepares to speak to her entire people. I'm literally just realizing this sounds like Hitler. Anyway.

Very... Passionized literally Hitler.

Slava (34:55.496)
That's some commentary on modern discourse in the marketplace.

boy, this should be a short. Varanus tells her that the dissenters escaped, helped by Thuud, but Eshenai says not to pursue them since they will not survive the next high storm anyway. Venli confronts Eshenai who threatens to kill her own sister, but doesn't since she needs Venli for the storm spren. Eshenai lets Venli go and addresses the listeners as she has planned. Zikhal, that's not part of this. Anyway.

That's an F for character. goodness.

I Ash and I was trying to go to art school.

She tried art form and couldn't get it.

Jonathan (35:36.664)
There it is. I don't have anything else to say about this.

this was a decent, pretty intense with a little eye intense, because there's a lot more intense stuff that happens in these books and this book in particular. But it was still interesting to be with the Preshendi again and to see what Ash and I is planning because she is full-throat. No, full-throat. That's not a word.

Mm-hmm.

She is boss of the wall ready to take on the storm form which brings back the gods which I said in a previous episode what the hell is happening since they didn't want those gods back and now they are giving the gods back to fight the humans who are killing them because they killed their king for trying to bring the gods back so it's become eluded for me as a reader why Ash and I is doing anything but there's some good tension.

good actions in this interlude. beyond that, I got no comments. Unless you have something to add.

Jonathan (36:41.902)
No, no, I'm just surprised that it took me, I think this is my fifth reread. And it's not, I didn't even get it during the reread, right? I got it during our discussion of the reread that, sorry, can't just, the astronaut is Hitler.

Mm-hmm.

Slava (37:00.839)
that settles it. Chapter 59. Fleet.

There we go.

Slava (37:07.48)
Well, do you love books, audience? Do you love this podcast? Don't forget to subscribe and leave a review so you never miss an episode.

Slava (37:18.894)
Calden feels claustrophobic in his prison cell. Calden asks Cill if she would help him break out if he wanted to and she says yes, but then inquires why he would break out since he entered there willingly. God bless you Cill. He hears a disturbance but isn't able to find out what causes it. He says he won't be executed and that he doesn't trust

Dalinar anymore because Dalinar allowed his imprisonment and that he is the same as the other Light Eyes. Syll asks him to repeat that and he is unable since he can't easily lie to Sprint. Kaladin speaks out against Elokar saying the kingdom would be better off without him and says this is no different than when he was a slave and Syll doesn't contradict him. Wit appears

Sitting on a bench outside his cell, tuning a musical instrument and mentioning his perfect pitch and saying that he came for the story that he previously requested from their last meeting. Caledon says he isn't in the mood after some verbal sparring. starts playing his instrument, which affects Caledon internally. asks Caledon to close his eyes and describe what he sees. And Caledon thinks of a race and says as such.

and Whit sings lyrics that rhyme and repeat Kaladin's story in musical form. As Whit sings the story of Fleet, Kaladin pictures it in his mind and each time Whit pauses, Kaladin tells Fleet's tale to Whit to expound upon. Fleet races against a high storm from the eastern sea to the lands of Shinnivar and reaches safety but dies due to his effort, causing the storm to stop.

The fleet sold and rises to win the race and ride the winds thereafter. Whit tells Caledon about the nature of stories and accepts the ending that Caledon gives this tale and asks Caledon what the meaning of the story was. Caledon says that the storm caught fleet and Whit says the storm catches everyone and does it matter? And Caledon says he doesn't know. Whit says,

Slava (39:41.09)
That's good, since Kelden now has something to ponder on. Kelden ponders. So, typical Kelden.

Yeah. Kaladin is pondering in his cell alone, doing his sentence for getting his, trying to give another light eyes his comeuppets.

Yep. So overall a decent chapter. I like Whit. I like when he shows up.

So Wit has like four of these little parables. The first one in Way of Kings where he's talking about, do you remember?

So all these parables, the two that I am privy to so far, has to do with high storms and has to do with Kaladin being able to ride the high storms so they're connected to him in a loose sense, meaning that Wit is telling them to him to encourage him and to open some Reese's of the Mind, to use Matrix words, to pull out something out of Kaladin to make him realize

Slava (40:45.42)
what all this means and all this meaning his participation in whatever is happening in Roshar. That's how I read it.

Yes, Darethel and the Wondersilph fleet, the dog and the dragon. Is it the cleverest of moons? no, that's the one he tells to Shalon. Anyways, Hoyt is always telling parables to the kids. Anyway, what did you say a second ago? Sorry, I'm trying to find the answer to this thing.

I was talking about wonder sale and how it's similar to the second parable, the two that I'm privy to, all have to do with storms and riding them. Whether it's a ship, whether it's a guy named fleet, it's meant to bring something out of Calden. That's what I said.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, well, it's also like Kaladin is a windrunner in terms of like his, not oaths, oaths as well, but his order. That's the word. His order, he's a windrunner. He's constantly, not constantly, but there have been times where he's like, the wind is mine, right? So it just seems to me relevant because we also see when Hoyt is telling Shalan narratives and parables that they are light-weaving and they're about truths, right?

So he gives parables to the character in ways that are, I think, relevant to the characters.

Slava (42:04.548)
Good old...Widhoid.

Yes, but our understanding is that the way that he does this is Yolish light weaving. Yoland is supposedly the land that Hoyt comes from. We don't know if that's true, but Yoland is another land. It's an ancient land. It's a planet we believe. And actually, I don't know if Yoland is the planet. Anyway, some of the epigraphs are wit.

writing letters to his friend on Yolin, who's a dragon named Frost. This is an instance where like, Wit uses a magic from a different planet on another planet. And this is like a Cosmere thing that you can use magic systems from elsewhere, other places in the Cosmere because reasons, which we don't fully understand yet, but it's just a, it's just something to note. Moving forward.

All right.

Jonathan (43:06.106)
After 60, Veil walks. Shalon and Pattern study maps of the Shattered Plains and Old Natanon, as well as Amoram's Notations while trying to locate Yirathiru. Pattern tells Shalon that she must remember what she used to know about him and unlock her repressed memories so that she can gain her abilities. She practices with light weaving but is unable to create sound using her Illusion. Though she figures out how to reduce her Stormlight glow,

She also figures out that she can invest pattern with Stormlight so that he can maintain her illusions and even make them move. Another thing here about light weaving real quick is this is light weaving on Roshar. We know in terms of like all the books that Hoyt is using light weaving from Yolen, which is supposedly a different type of light weaving, which to me begs the question, and I don't think there's an answer to this at the moment, are the other

orders that are on Roshar, is that like version two of the orders from other places in the Cosmere? Does that make sense? Where it's like, have Yolish light weaving from Yolin and you have Rosharan light weaving from Roshar and they're just different somehow because we see all of Shalan's light weavings, which are more, I guess I'll call them primitive, right? Like she can't do as much as Hoid does.

when he's light-weaving and telling his parables. Does that make sense?

That makes sense. The thought that came to me as you were talking is not a thought, a question that came to me as you were talking is are the powers that rule the Cosmere, including some of the people that we meet like Hoid, the gods, the thing beyond the veil, the cognitive realm, are the powers that rule all that similar, and I know this is a stretch, so there's not a one-to-one comparison, but in similar fashion, if you will.

Slava (45:08.686)
like the Abaddon in the Cradle series where there's these planets, there's these worlds, but there is a power, if you will, that governs them all to a degree. Is this how we can understand what you just described about the different levels of light weaving and one looks different on one world and Hoyt is more advanced and Shalan is more primitive? Is that because of their ability to tap into this governing entity, for lack of a better term?

Mm-hmm. So when you say entity, are you talking about a singular God or are you talking about something else? Okay. Well, in that case, yes, sort of, because we have investiture, which is scattered throughout all of the Cosmere and is available on every planet that we go to because investiture is in the spiritual realm. Investiture is in the cognitive realm.

Something else.

Jonathan (46:07.788)
I said the spirit realm. My brain's foggy this morning, Investiture is accessible on all planets at all times from all peoples. It looks different on each planet because the shards that inhabit the planets shape how the investiture is used partly. But the question then comes about because Hoyd is a world hopper and the shards that he

you know, learned from, if you will, to like very broad, like don't at me in the comments, aren't on the planets that he's on when he's using the things like the Yolish shard, if there is one, we don't know, isn't there on Roshar when he's using Yolish light, light weaving, right? Does that make sense? Like in a sort of nonsensical kind of way. And, and before the show started, I was kind of explaining some things to the Slava about just like Sanderson and his, his writing.

Okay. That makes sense.

Jonathan (47:07.796)
We don't have all the details. This is not a completed series. Like it is being written still. And so there's just a bunch of questions that everyone has that we don't have answers to.

That's what makes this fun.

I meant it. I did. I do mean that it does.

Spencer, shout out. Slava has changed his opinion, maybe.

I feel like I have to set the record straight all the time. I don't know why. This is like the 19th time. So my scribe is tired of this.

Jonathan (47:40.302)
I tell people that you're my podcast wife.

Okay. Whatever, whatever you're working through, I'll allow it. That helps. I am here for the journey. I said this way back with Warbreaker and the Way of Kings. So there are some things that I don't want to know because that will ruin the surprise and the journey. I am fully committed to the Stormlight Archives. The other stuff, I'm okay with reading it as long as it, and this is something I added.

in our conversation about Mistborn has substantial information. it really, without reading it, you understand nothing. But while I'm exploring the Cosmere, specifically Stormlight Archive, I'd like to know other things in order to enjoy this. And that's where reading a book like Mistborn, which I felt was underwhelming, I was like, you guys gotta tell me this. And I might've went back and read it anyway, just because I wanted the experience. But anyway.

This is fun.

Great. Are you, let me, let me, let's just unpack this a little more. Do you understand why it's difficult to like give you things in terms of the Cosmere? Do you understand the difficulty of like asking?

Slava (48:59.938)
I understand two aspects of the difficulty. is that even you guys don't know everything. Two, you are hesitant to give me the answers because you guys want to discuss it with somebody who has been down the same journey as you have instead of just knowing things randomly. I understand that.

Sort of. Sorry, finish your thought.

That's it, that was my thought.

Okay, so on the second point, because we haven't reread all the books recently, it's hard, because things are so interconnected. And this is kind of what I was getting at here is like wanting to hear how you interpret our hesitations of discussing things with you. Because like some stuff is revealed in the book and then there's like extrapolations from other books that then make connections with those points. And it's the extra like

We don't remember all of the nuances of like where the connections happen because we haven't read Mistborn in a hot minute. Right? Sure. And so because we don't want to overindulge the details for you, because we see part of the fun being that we're all along for the mystery and we don't have all the answers. It's like, okay, you've read Mistborn now. Cool. We can talk about X, Y, Z. You know, you've read Words of Radiance now. We can talk about X, Y, and Z because each time Sanderson gives us

Jonathan (50:24.588)
distinct clues about the functional aspects of the Cosmere in terms of mechanical, as well as the overarching plot of like, what is going on? Who's battling who in the Cosmere, which entities are battling who? And then you have like the story itself. It's like very multi-layered. And so it's not easy. and, you know, bear with me on this one, but like, it's not as easy as it, which is its own.

self-contained story where there is a lot going on, but you can go, hey, in chapter 63, this is referencing back to this because it's written in a circle. And it's like self-referencing where this is like, this is self-referencing across 23 books. And it's like, you know what I mean? You know?

That's all fair, but my pushback on that would be I was never told that I was told raffle. I was like, okay, I'll raffle the crap out of it. But some things I just needed now. I am Hoyd and I'm unimpressed. You wish. Hoyd is the only character in this series that would allow you to call him his wife because he has no F's to give.

Hoyt is unimpressed.

Jonathan (51:27.502)
She were a hoid.

Jonathan (51:38.894)
That's true though. That's true. All right. 61 obedience. it home.

Back with our girl Shalon. My girl Shalon. She's become the perfect daughter. She keeps quiet now, particularly around her father and spends most of her days in her rooms. Her father has proven several times that he wouldn't hurt Shalon if she angered him, but he would beat others in her name. A good dad does. The only time she drops her mask is with her brothers making jokes.

girl.

Slava (52:12.6)
to try to drive back the darkness in their home. She is also more involved in keeping House DeVar's accounts and their fortunes seem to have improved. Her father has shrewdly stopped being bullied by the other Light Eyes and has started playing them off each other. New marble deposits have been discovered which provide resources to keep up with his promises, bribes and deals. Shalon hopes this will improve her father's temperament, but it doesn't.

Lin and Balot are arguing about who he will marry. Balot wants to marry Elitha Tavenar, but his father thinks she's of too low of a status. He wants Balot to marry Sudi Valam, daughter of High Prince Valam, who is a widow in her fifties. Their argument escalates and Balot calls his father a murderer. In response, Lin coldly orders one of his new guards to kill Balot's

new axehound pups. Balot is outraged and tells his father that Helleran is back, and that they had met only two days past. They lock eyes and then Balot stalks out of the room. Shalan finds Balot in the kennel where his new pod of axehounds pups were dead in a pool of violent blood. She encouraged him to breed them and he'd been making progress with his demons over the years.

rarely hunting anything larger than a Kremling now. They discuss fleeing their house and Balat tells her he wants to go live in Vedinar with a Letha. Shalan says she can go but will try to think of a way for them to escape and returns to the house. While passing her father's door, Shalan overhears him talking to Rin, one of the house's new guards. Her father tells Rin to find Halloran

ambush him and bring back his head. He offers Halloran's sharp blade as payment. Malice, having also apparently overheard this, is shocked that her husband would order the murder of his own son. A violent, angry argument breaks out and Wren leaves.

Jonathan (54:29.046)
Yeah, the Devar household is quite the... Eclectic is not the right word. Spicy, maybe? Spicy place to be in these early days for the sons and the daughter. It's not a good look. You we thought that Balot would kind of move past his anger problems of killing animals, and it sounds like he kind of did. But, you know, what do they say in Russia?

What's that like Russian parable of hell where, you know, someone's getting a tour of hell and they see a bunch of other examples of hell and then they go see the one that's the example of Russia where there's no demons guarding the boiling pot that all the Russians are in because the Russians all, as someone's about to get out, they drag them back in and they're like, yeah, we don't actually need to put any demons on guard for these Russians. They just like, won't let anyone get ahead anyway. Something like that.

First time I'm hearing it, but I think it tracks.

Okay, let me, I'll pull it up. Hold up, hold up, hold up. that's, I'm super surprised. Russian version of hell. I don't know, is it a myth or folklore? In a hypothetical tour of hell, individuals will suffer punishments that are ironic in versions of their sins according to Dante's depiction. Maybe it's just Dante's Inferno.

And Russians are there.

Jonathan (55:53.768)
their own people is not directly related to Dante's depiction of hell but could be interpreted as symbolic representation of self-destruction. Yeah, I don't know where this comes from but I remember it.

Which, you know, that doesn't do you any good, but.

No, apparently I can't escape Hell No.

Yeah, cause your own people keep dragging you back in. Yeah, I don't know. I've... This is gonna bother me. Anyway, back to the show. Back to the show. It's fun. It's fun.

Yeah, so I googled I googled Russians in hell no need for guards and what came up is Van Dam's movie Called in hell and apparently he's in a Russian prison All right. Well moving on to the one who killed promises chapter 62 Calden wakes up in his cell to the monotony of solitude and darkness

Slava (56:50.348)
He sees a strange spren that looks like taut wires. He talks to Sil who is nearby but hidden and tells him about a cryptic, a revolting king of spren who hid from Sil before she could find it. Then she realizes that the cryptic may be trying to bond to another radiant and that Kal must not be alone in the near future. Dalinar shows up.

and Kaladin salutes him by reflex. Dalinar tells Kaladin to pretend he is guarding the prison cell and that Alucard may relent soon and allow Kal to be released once the pardon doesn't make the king seem too ambivalent. Dalinar says that his men are being taken care of and that his reputation with Dalinar is not harmed. But Kaladin retorts that the king has a history of allowing people to rot in prison.

and Delanor knows about the situation that Cal is talking about and says he would prefer not to speak of the Rochon affair, which shocks Caledon. Calen asks for further explanation and Delanor gives it reluctantly. Delanor says that he wanted to demote Rochon, but was overridden and ended up exiling him where he could do no harm, not knowing what happened later in Hearthstone.

Kaladin says the mercy shown Roshon is rarely granted to Dark Eyes and Dalinar replies that Kaladin is in a special position and that he has to show extra loyalty. Dalinar also explains that he trusts his instincts about Kaladin as a man that can help inspire positive change in the kingdom and that he wants Kaladin to lead by example and not

act erratically and impossibly and selfishly. After Dalinar leaves, Kaladin discusses the revelations with Syl and blames his family's misfortunes on Elokar. Kaladin concludes that Moash is right and the King must die.

Jonathan (58:59.086)
See, I'm not gonna defend Cal on this one. That's my comment.

Good. But I do like Kaladin's time in prison. I think it's a nice reprieve from the action. It gives Kaladin think about things. We get more information about Dalinar. We get an explanation of sorts about Roshon and what happened in Hearthstone. There's a little bit of, you know, little bit of exposition given and Kaladin gets to cool off for a bit.

The only way Kaladin can cool off.

Is in the prison cell. Prison. Good old Cal.

Man, I feel like that just is, even though I can't find a source for this thing, kind of like Russian. I feel like you should resonate a lot with Kaladin.

Slava (59:43.246)
I don't though, I don't know. I'm not that-

Well in terms of the Russian sense where like he's about to get out and gets dragged back in, only way he can cool off. I know that you don't resonate with him the same way you resonate with Shinalon, that was not my comment, it was reference to the joke that I was trying to find a... Never mind. Anyway.

Yeah.

Slava (01:00:00.998)
yeah. Okay. I'm tracking.

Now that landed, I didn't get it the first time.

man, in terms of getting, not getting jokes, I dropped a joke last night at the thing that I was at with Spencer. There's probably a group of, I know, let's say 20 people, right? And I made a joke and then everyone's like, yeah. And they took it like seriously. And I was like, yep, that joke didn't hit. Anyway, carry on.

What was the joke?

Here's the thing, I can sit here and explain it to you.

Slava (01:00:29.474)
You should. I'm not going We're in a prison cell with Calvin.

I'm not going to. It's literally, it's just going to waste time. And although you enjoy telling jokes that have no purpose, I don't.

Just say the joke without any context and let's see if I'll get it.

It's entirely relevant to the fact that we were at a meeting for a church plan. So the guy before me said, you know, people just go to church on Sundays to check off a box. And then I chime in because we were talking about how to name this guy's church. And I said, yeah, we should just call it checklist church. You just go, you check it off the list, you move on with your life.

Just say the joke.

Slava (01:01:02.19)
See, that's funny. That's hilarious.

Thank you. great. Pity, pity, pity humor from the Russian. It really was. I thought it was very clever.

What? It's called Box Church.

Box Church. Spencer said we should call the church, he made a joke to Mistborn. Church of the Survivor.

Okay.

Jonathan (01:01:24.13)
Spencer's joke was a lot funnier than mine was.

But still, as we move on to a burning world, Chapter 63, we are back with my girl Shalan and her good old buddy Pattern. Shalan and Pattern hide in one of her illusions to watch a drop location secretly for anyone to try to leave instructions for her while she chats with Adolin via Span Read. Shalan decides she must be irresistible to Adolin to keep his interest.

She asks Pattern why M'Rays didn't send instructions via Span Read and realizes that the Ghost Bloods are trying to spy on her. She tells Pattern to find the spy and he locates Eottil. Adeline sends a message that Shalan can join a scouting trip in the Shattered Plains as she requested, but she says she hopes to find a live Chasm fiend for her research. She gives an excuse to Adeline to end their Span Read conversation.

then destroys her illusion and creates a new one of Veil attached to Pattern and tells him to make it seem that Veil is retrieving something from the tree. Then to go to an adjacent alleyway, Shalana waits outside of Eotil's room disguised as Veil and confronts her when Eotil enters the hallway, explaining how she was tricked by her double. Eotil gives her

name and explains that Shalan has an urgent task to investigate the new arrival in Dalinar's camp and that she is to watch while Shalan performs it. Shalan tells Eotil that she can join her instead of following her secretly. Shalan and Eotil ride in a paliquin as Shalan reads her instructions to investigate a supposed madman that Dalinar and Ellicar are interested in.

Slava (01:03:23.84)
Eotil reveals that Mraize is her student, not her master, and she wears the mask to reserve herself and allow her to adapt. Shalon removes her disguise without letting Eotil notice by using the palaquins' curtains for concealment, and is immediately recognized and permitted into Dalnur's camp. She has Pattern make a distraction so that she can withdraw into the palaquin and resume Vale's appearance without Eotil noticing.

Eotil tries to guess how Shalon got them past the guards and Shalon flashes an enigmatic smile. The Paliquin proceeds to their destination and Shalon deceives an ardent into thinking that her sister needs medical attention for psychological impairment and they are admitted into the temple. Yep, while some ardents try to diagnose Eotil, Shalon sneaks off and creates an illusion of one of the ardents to move

unfamiliar

Slava (01:04:21.866)
more freely around the temple. Pattern locates the madman for her and picks the lock so they can enter his dark cell. The man is whispering about the return of the desolation and calls himself Tal'nanalan. She tells Pattern that she doubts that the man is one of the heralds. Talon repeats his words and Shalan writes them down since he doesn't answer her other questions. Shalan tries to recreate her illusion

Patalan sees this and grabs her and holds her against the wall in alarm and speaks of one of Ishar's nights. Then goes back to his bed and lies down, repeats the same whispers. Shalan summons her sharp blades to defend herself but realizes she doesn't need it. Her mind blanks out and she thinks of mother's soul. Then wakes up and Patern asks if she is crazy and she replies yes. She goes to leave the room.

Hahaha.

but sees Amaram approaching it. Yeah, there's two crazy chicks breaking into a prison.

This is what happens here.

Jonathan (01:05:24.792)
Breaking into a psych ward, actually.

even better.

So Iatul, she's actually Meraeus' teacher. Tell me more about that. Did you see that coming? That was a surprise.

Yeah.

Slava (01:05:42.35)
Surprised, see it coming. When reading it, didn't think of it more than just a twist that Sanderson threw in there. Looking back now, it's probably important. E.I.T.L. is probably somebody from somewhere doing something that we should care about. What those things are, are a mystery to me. Is she from Mistborn?

Yeah.

She's Vin, isn't she?

It's not that easy to guess what Branerson's doing.

Branded world, yeah. But I'm actually... Okay, so, but she is from that planet.

Jonathan (01:06:14.84)
He's not Vin.

Jonathan (01:06:19.266)
Yeah, but you wouldn't meet her until...

Book 3.

I think it's book three of era two.

wow, okay.

if I remember correctly, or book four. Might be book four.

Slava (01:06:35.104)
Okay. All right. And her mission here is to... We don't know.

We don't know. The Ghost Bloods, the Ghost Bloods, we were like, we have a semblance of what the Ghost Bloods want by book five, but it's kind of shoddy in terms of what they want. We kind of put it together through five prologues.

Well, is it espionage? the two planets are at war, they're here to undermine something or somebody. I don't mean all cryptic and somebody something, there is espionage.

The two planets are not currently at war.

So what they do sets off the war. Cool. Okay.

Jonathan (01:07:12.867)
potentially.

The other thing is, I don't know if I mentioned this on air, but Stormlight Archives book one through five take place between Mistborn Era one and Mistborn Era two. Timeline wise.

Right, you did.

Alright, and the war starts after all of that. Okay, alright.

Yeah. So the other thing is like the ghost splits want something from Roshar, whatever that is, we don't know. And what is the other thing? Warbreaker happens, I think, before MISPORT. I'm trying to remember the timeline off the top of my head and I feel like I'm getting it wrong a little bit.

Jonathan (01:07:55.448)
but we'll just go with that for right now. Warbreaker happens timeline-wise before Way of Kings, definitely before Way of Kings, not necessarily before the Mistborn series, but there are implications that show up later in terms of like when people, I don't even know how to say it. There's deeper implications than just Nightblood being on Roshar. That's probably the clearest way that I can say it because there's just too many things that happen in books four and five and I don't wanna.

told the Durell the readers.

good enough for me. Why don't we begin our descent from the high storm.

Please keep your hands, feet, and head inside the vehicle at all times as we make a crash landing. So chapter 64 treasures our last chapter for the day in part six of Wars of Radiance. Kaladin sits in his cell moping and feeling dejected. He tries to absorb stormlight from a sphere outside his cell and has brief difficulty before he is able to soak it in to his fingertips. Silfrenna appears and says she is worried about Kaladin growing dark.

Feeling slightly better, Kaladin takes his meal as a puzzled guard swaps out the Dun Sphere. Shalan panics, but thinks quickly and creates an illusion of darkness to conceal herself within the cell. So we've just, for the audience here, we've jumped from Kaladin's POV to Shalan's because Shalan was going to leave Telenolot Ilin's cell, but Amoram's coming up. Amoram and Borden enter the cell and close the door. Shalan feels muted anger at seeing Helarenn's killer.

Jonathan (01:09:30.391)
though she realizes that her brother may have been killed in self-defense as a possible assassin. Amoram looks at Taln and proclaims that his and Gavilar's plan has succeeded. Whatever that means. Put a pin in that. I want to ask you about that. Borden tells Amoram that Taln spoke of a cache of shardblades once to Borden and Amoram asks Borden to take him to the location before someone else finds it and the two depart.

Shalan feels like she is in over her head with the conspiracies, though Pattern doesn't understand the her analogy. Shalan returns to say goodbye to Yattel after giving her the transcription of Talm's ramblings and a brief description of Amaranth's visit. After verifying that Yattel can't escape on her own, Shalan apologizes to the Ardents for getting lost in the temple and prepares to leave. Yattel says how impressed she is and asks who Shalan really is, and Shalan replies that she is a seeker of truth.

Shalan tells Yattol that she will send a full report to Meraise. Meraise indicates that Shalan has proven herself and is safe from any danger from other Ghost Bloods and that Shalan is to get a tattoo anywhere on her person to symbolize her loyalty to the Ghost Bloods and that she is now admitted as a member of their group. So, what does Amoram mean? That he and Gavilar's plan has succeeded.

So, remind me who Taln is. He's a radiant. He's a herald.

He's a herald.

Jonathan (01:10:57.72)
Tall never broke.

Right.

Taln was one of the ten who made the oath pact. He shows up at the end of Way of Kings with a shard blade in his hand at the gates of Kolanar and Hoyt is there playing a flute and Hoyt says something about da-da-da-da old friend and Taln is acting crazy like he is currently.

Okay. So Gavilar is trying to bring back the old gods. Somewhere in my readings, I stumbled upon a treaty that he wanted to create with the listeners.

The listeners are the proscendi. That's like Prologue 1 in WaveKings.

Slava (01:11:39.852)
Okay, so the listeners are Prashendi. So those are the same people. So if the desolation is coming and Talon is the only one that did not break, he knows what he must do in the face of desolation. Gavilar is trying to protect his people in light of the calming desolation. So are they connected somehow?

I don't remember if Gavilar ever met, I don't remember if Gavilar met any of the heralds. However, we know that Gavilar in prologue one spoke with someone named Thidakar who is a ghost blood. So Gavilar has at least some information that there are other planets and that somehow people from other planets can either get to Roshar or communicate with Roshar or something. And people from other planets want something from Roshar. Whether or not Gavilar knows what that is, unsure.

To your point, Gavilar wants to bring back the old gods that the Parshendi do not want to see again. Amoram tells Taln that he and Gavilar's plan has succeeded, whatever that was. Amoram, as a reminder, is part of the Sons of Honor who were trying to do something. And this is why Shalan feels in over her head because she's got the Sons of Honor, she's got the Ghost Blood, she's trying to be the betrothed of very prominent light eyes. She's becoming a radiant, she has huge trauma.

She talks to her spren, there's, Shalan's just like, she's, yeah, she's in over her head. Not that that answered the question that I asked you originally, but that's okay. We're not supposed to necessarily know all these things at the moment, but like just curious on what your thoughts were. AMRAM's clearly trying to get another set of Shardblades.

Okay.

Slava (01:13:19.128)
think one mystery for me is still the connection with the other heralds that Gavilar has or doesn't have. Or at least he knows about them, Like clock and nail. Or gnaw. So he has some connection to them, whether it's personal relationships, like he's met them, or he knows of them.

Right, so the interesting thing here though is that because Tom never broke

No, right? He did meet him.

He might have. I can't remember at the moment.

I feel like I read somewhere that he met at least Null.

Jonathan (01:13:55.096)
Probably. But one of the things, know, so Spencer and I have said Tall never broke. Well, the way the oath pact works that is if the heralds are on Braes, which is like Roshar's hell that prevents a desolation, the heralds realized that not all of them had to be there to prevent the desolation. And so the heralds came back to Roshar, but they left Tall there, which is where the phrase Tall never broke came from because

Nine of them left. Ten of them made a pact. Nine of them betrayed Talm. And so the fact that Talm is back makes people question like, did he break? But he's crazy now. That might not be because he broke. That might be because of something else.

Well, he never broke the pack. If his mind broke because of an event that traumatized him or caused him to break, those are two different freaking things, right? This is just a breaking of his mind and the breaking of his oath, which he didn't do.

Anyway, that is today's episode on Roshar. Well,

Thanks for joining us this time on SideQuest. Make sure you like, share, and subscribe and return next week as we continue our trek on Roshar. We'll see you next time on SideQuest.