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Real conversations about the stories, challenges, struggles and triumphs of Middle Tennessee's entrepreneurs, business owners and professionals. Broadcasting from the J2HQ in Thompson's Station. www.mmtbp.com
Unknown: You're good. This
is the mostly Middle Tennessee
Business Podcast, a podcast
about Middle Tennessee business
owners and professionals.
Mostly, and so you got a taste
of our traffic, man. I
appreciate you coming down from
out of state, first of all, and
to oblige me with you coming on
the on the show, but yeah, I
apologize for the traffic. My
goodness, and you had to sit
through the beginning of rush
hour traffic in Nashville, which
typically starts around 1:30.
It's ridiculous,
and it's utterly ridiculous. It
reminds me of Seattle to go 20,
you know, two hours to go 20,
you know, 20 miles or something.
You know, Cleveland and Parma,
Ohio, were like the same way. We
had to go up there and do a job,
and I think like the Home Depot
was maybe three miles away, and
it would take dang 20 minutes to
get there because speed limits.
I mean, I don't know. You're
familiar with that area. That's
where you're from, essentially.
Correct.
Right. Yeah. I mean, is all of
Ohio like that?
Cleveland, Cleveland, Columbus,
Cincinnati are probably the
worst.
Really?
Oh yeah. Especially trying to
get over that bridge into
Kentucky.
Yeah. Well, I mean, every time
we go through Cincinnati, it's
it's relatively smooth. I mean,
I think the last time we went
through was coming back from
last year when we all met, and
that was one of those situations
where I just think we hit the
traffic at the wrong time. But
maybe it's like that all the
time.
Well, they've been doing so much
traffic on that bridge too,
crossing over into Kentucky.
Oh, really?
And the river splits, you know,
right there, Kentucky. Correct.
Yeah,
because that's where Ohio, the
Ohio River goes into. What's the
split there? No idea. Yeah, I
can't either. But yeah, we met
last year, almost to almost to
the day at an Aldine show, I was
up there, my brother and I, in
Detroit to go check it out, and
my guys from the Small Town
Podcast were there, and Rich got
me the all the special
treatment, so that was fun, and
we had a good time. Got to meet
you. I think you guys are
sitting behind us.
Correct. Yeah, I think I met you
guys by the bus though first,
right?
Yeah, yeah. We all kind of hung
out by the bus and maybe had
some cigars and libations and
stuff like that. So
some great photos.
Yeah, it's good to know people.
100% And that's when I got
introduced to your company. You
guys were kind of kicking around
the idea of sponsoring their
podcast with Peacemaker Coffee.
So today's guest, to those of
you listening, I always say
mostly Middle Tennessee because
most of the time we have Middle
Tennessee entrepreneurs,
professionals, and business
owners on the podcast. Today is
an exception. We've got somebody
that is from the Northern Ohio
area, specifically I don't. I
can't remember where Toledo,
Toledo. I should say Holy
Toledo, and then you know met
you last year, and now you're in
our area. I said, hey, come on,
let's do a do an episode talk
about the the coffee business
and getting into commodities and
all that fun stuff.
I appreciate you,
of course, man. Appreciate
coming,
Chris Morris with Peacemaker
Coffee. This is the mostly
Middle Tennessee business
podcast that you're listening
to, powered by actually from the
It's Your Show. Co studios,
powered by Muletown Bikes. Have
you tried e-bikes yet at all?
Have
not. Have not. You're in good
shape, so I don't think you
really need to.
I don't know if I'm all in that
good shape. You're much
better shape than I am, so let's
just put it that way. So not so
much lately, but I'm looking
forward to the fall where I can
actually get out and ride and
not be you know obliterated by
this heat that we've been
having. It's
yeah, it's been brutal,
especially down here. Every time
I come down here, it's it's
insane.
Well, at what time? How many
times you like every now and
then you come down in the
summertime? Every
every now and then, yeah. My my
nephew lives in Murfreesboro, so
all right on. I try to get
down here to the sale every now
and then, and and of course
we're co packing.
Yeah, so
I'm meeting with a company
tomorrow down here.
Yeah,
so getting more into that
Kentucky, so it's growing and
growing. It's only been five or
six years, business just grown.
What a
time! What a time to kind of
start get a business going. You
know, right before you were oh,
it's 2021, you got it off the
ground.
So I started in 19. So I start.
I born and raised Pittsburgh,
Pennsylvania.
Yeah,
and
there you go.
Yeah, so born and raised
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and
ended up bouncing around. My
mother was a was a chemist for
Con Ed up in New York, and
very familiar with Con Ed. Yeah,
Con Ed, and so she finally
retired, moved to Florida, and I
ended up moving to Florida as
well. Went to the police
academy, spent 17 years as a
police officer. There and then
moved out west to take a command
job with a police department
just just a little north of
Seattle.
Right,
tough times, especially through
COVID and so forth. And finally
retired in January of 21, so
just shy about four months shy
of 22 years.
Oh wow! So what was what was
like pension year? Did you miss
that or,
well, if
there was even a pension?
Well, there was at the time. If
I would have stayed in Florida,
it was 20 years, 2020 and out.
But then I ended up leaving at
17 years, so then they changed
it 2025.
Oh, okay. So
now I got to wait till I'm 62 to
collect.
Well, so not
a fun time.
So, so what inspired you to get
into the coffee business?
So, I hated coffee originally. I
used to go to my grandmother's
house, and she would take the
old Taster Choice, the instant
stuff, and she would she would
mix it with with cremates, and
that's all they would drink.
Right.
So she would force us to drink
that stuff. Absolutely hated it,
and she would it would get cold,
and then she would dump it in
your cereal. It was absolutely
horrible. So I hated coffee for
many years.
Coffee in your cereal, cereal.
Yeah, she didn't have milk. They
were they were we were so poor
that she would take the instant
make the coffee, the instant
coffee. She would dump in the
powder creamer, and and she'd
mix it up, and then whatever's
left over, she'd put it in the
refrigerator and then dump it in
your cereal.
So you had like a supercharged
upbringing. I mean, you got you
were caffeinated. It was
horrible. I can't eat bologna to
this day because they would fry.
They'd do everything they could
with bologna, and I just to this
to this day I cannot eat
baloney.
I don't think I've ever had
fried baloney.
Oh, I can't eat it any which
way, even cold. I can't really
can't even look at it.
Can't even look at it. Can't do
it.
I had it. My wife works in a
deli at Publix, and she brought
it home once upon a time, maybe
six months ago. And it's kind of
like I just have no craving for
this. We had a couple of slices,
and it's like you know, it's
bologna. It's how I remember it.
Yeah, no, I can't. I can't do
baloney that, and I can't do the
the the little block, the
noodles. What are the the ramen?
Oh, ramen. Can't do that either.
Really? Never did
you do spam?
Nope, can't do spam. Can't do
spam anymore. Nah.
For a while there, I I ate
nothing back when I was about. I
ate nothing. That's obviously
not true. 2324, 25 years old. I
did body for life. I dropped
like 60 pounds. Got down to like
175, which was way too thin for
me. And to this, I just been
able to start eating cottage
cheese again because I ate so
much of it during that time that
you just yeah you wear yourself
out.
I love cottage cheese, but I
can't eat baloney spam or any of
that stuff.
Well, that's good because it's
not exactly the best stuff for
you. It's like poison, man.
Yeah, I can't even. You go into
you go into places and they're
selling thick cuts of you know
bologna sandwiches and fried and
everything else and delis and
stuff like that.
Yeah,
or and it's just like
so you you had an aversion to
coffee because you grew up with
it and it was just completely
you were completely fatigued by
it.
Well,
why all of a sudden? Hey, let's
get into the coffee business.
So,
so doing the police work,
majority of my my career, I
worked six at night till six in
the morning. So I worked 12 hour
shifts, and the police
department barely paid anything,
you know, 35, $36,000 a year.
Gosh!
So you would have to work. You
would work 12-hour shifts. You'd
work 40, 5060, hours a week, and
then you would have to work your
off days. You were just
completely exhausted all the
time.
Yeah.
And so, you know, everybody else
was drinking coffee, and the
energy drinks just at some point
just wouldn't cut it. Soda
wouldn't cut it. Nothing would
cut it. So I started drinking
coffee. Absolutely, again hated
it. Went to Costa Rica. Ended up
taking a tour of the coffee bean
fields, and you know, which I
didn't know was a fruit and it
grew on a tree. You know, and
and really the coffee is just a
pit,
right?
You know of the fruit, and so at
the end of the tour, got to try
several different coffees, and
it was very good, but very
acidic. You know, especially
coming from Costa Rica, and
there's different countries. You
know, Ethiopian coffee, Uganda
coffee. Some of it's very in
Costa Rica and some other some
other areas, and it's super
esthetic. So, but it was really
rough on my stomach, so in order
to keep myself up, I started
drinking coffee. So a different
caffeine from everything else,
and and it didn't give me the
drop afterwards, like you know,
like a soda or or an energy
drink. So I got to
find coffee does that to me. No,
it's weird.
I was able to stay. I was fine.
Coffee leveled me out.
Yeah.
But when I would drink a you
know soda or something like
that, it would give me that
sugar high, and then all of a
sudden I would just have that
crash. Yeah. You know,
especially energy drinks like
Monsters and stuff like that.
So, so coffee was my was my
next. I didn't smoke. I didn't
do any. I don't drink. Everybody
keeps calling me, you know,
telling me I'm a sore loser
because I don't have a few
drinks once in a while. But
I wouldn't say that. It's you're
just a disciplined person.
So I just love coffee. So, but
just a my work regimen is seven
days a week. I get up at three
a.m. and work till 7o'clock at
night, and that's my been my
routine.
Yeah.
So
just kept doing it,
kept doing it, kept doing it,
and so back in 2019, I ended up
spent spent 17 years in Florida
working for police department.
Ended up moving when I moved to
Seattle, it was a coffee place
on every
coffee mecca,
yeah, on every freaking corner
and every convenience store
parking lot. There was
just rumor to have that there's
a Starbucks on opposite corners,
isn't that where they the
original or something? The
original,
yeah,
yeah, downtown,
yeah.
And some of them, every time I
drink them, like one of the ones
you just mentioned,
yeah,
just tastes burnt to me every
time.
Yeah, and I guess that's the
man. Is that the appeal? I mean,
I didn't realize you could burn
coffee.
I don't want to. I don't want to
beat them up too bad, but
there's there's a reason why
they do that. Oh, really? And
there's a reason why it tastes
like that.
Because I mean, that's it's
definitely a signature flavor,
you know. And not you know you
can't argue with their success.
Apparently, they're moving here.
What I what I heard,
wow!
Like their HQ is coming to
Tennessee.
Well, because they started
charging when I was up there.
They started the city or the
King County where they were.
Yeah,
wanted to start charging an
employment tax on everybody.
Right,
like Seattle was the craziest
place I've probably been, you
know. And then working 10 miles
to the north of it in the next
county over, but they started. I
mean, they're just overrun by by
homeless. They've put 80 some
million dollars aside for the
homeless. They started, you
know, little tiny home camps,
and you know, and the you
couldn't do drugs or alcohol to
get in there, and then all of a
sudden, you know, they started
having homicides in these
places, and and I remember being
part of. We had to go out, and
we were working with the
coalition to count, you know,
count how many folks, you know,
were homeless and what the
numbers were, and the and the
services are insane. Like I
said, 80 some million dollars
set aside. It may be more money
now. This was in 2021, yeah, and
we would go around and count
everybody that weren't in
services. But the people that
were that were going to
services, the only caveat is, is
they give you everything as long
as you weren't on drugs and
alcohol, and that was it.
Yeah,
and it was just, it was, it was
nuts to see. And then they, and
then right before I left, they
set up. They called them drug
clinics or drug free zones, and
and you could go in and and you
you're paid by taxpayer dollars,
and you give me a clean needle,
and I can shoot myself up, and
and if I overdose, you save me.
So it's like you're you're
enabling, you know,
yeah.
It's it was the craziest time
out there. Whenever I was out
there, and of course during
COVID, and then you know the
calls for service-you know,
probably two, three times a day,
domestic violence calls-just
people were cooped up in the
house and over crazy things.
Wow! Yeah. Wow. I didn't realize
that was actually a thing. You
know, you know what actually
gave me that idea. We were
coming back from Winchester and
we were listening to Project
Hail Mary, the movie that came
out. So my wife and I will
listen to a book on a long trip
just to kind of you know eat up
the time and pass the time. A
lot of math in the book, a lot
of math, a lot of science. You
know, obviously the guy's a
scientist. I don't know if
you've seen the movie, but I
would see. It's a great movie,
fantastic movie. But in it, they
talk about how the the people
that were taking the trip, you
know, through space like an
interstellar trip, they had to
be able to like they had to have
some sort of psychological
makeup and be amicable to being
put into a coma state because
they were worried about them
like killing each other on the
way out there because they're
you know it's like a three and a
half year trip and you're cooped
up in a capsule so they
essentially put you to sleep and
you wake up when you get there
kind of thing so interesting
science behind I didn't realize
that's why they did that
wow they they definitely COVID
was absolutely insane. Yeah, and
I'm glad I never I never ever
got
it.
I mean, so many people did. Then
whenever they started making the
mandatory testing, they were
firing people left and right.
Public service. Oh yeah, yeah.
That
happened to you?
No, I ended up going right
before the mayor gave me an
option, and it was oh yeah, oh
yeah. It was it was probably
worst worst person I ever worked
for for sure. I mean, he would
threaten to fire me every single
day, and you know, and I was I
was always you know, right is
right, wrong is wrong, you know.
I stopped one of his one of his
friends one day, and and one of
the things that my biggest pet
peeve is I lived in the city,
and that I had to live in the
city, and I had a middle school,
and I had an elementary school.
My daughter went to the middle
school. My stepson went to the
or my I'm sorry, my daughter
went to the elementary school.
My son went to my stepson went
to the middle school. So I and
my guys would go out there every
single day. Would enforce the
school zones. That was one of my
big pet peeves. People would
come through there 4050, miles
an hour, and the kids were
trying to cut, you know, across
the street. And so one day I was
physically out there, and I
stopped one of the mayor's
buddies, and and I said to you
know I said to the guy the guy
says we you know hey you know
well I know the mayor and I said
so I went to hand him his ticket
and I said dude you were doing
42 miles an hour in a 20 miles
an hour school zone and he says
well I'm a so and so resident of
the town I said well then you
should know better he goes why I
know the mayor I said great I
says well then so do I here's
your ticket, and here is what I
said. I said either you can pay
or he can pay, and I dropped it
in his car, walked off. Well,
about three, four hours later,
you know the how the city was
set up. The police department
was on one side, city council,
and you know the mayor and
everybody was on the other side.
All of a sudden, I mean, he was
a he was probably a six foot
seven man. He was big guy, ran
in there 16 years. Ran
unincumbent. Nobody ever, you
know, beat him. He he ran until
he finally retired. But you
would hear this guy. I mean, he
was heavy footed, you know. And
if you ever been somewhere where
somebody, you could hear him
coming down the hall.
Sure.
So all of a sudden, my guys just
split out here. Boss, we'll see
you later. He'll take off on me.
He comes in there and starts
banging on my desk, you know,
and and telling me I'm going to
take care of it, and I said no,
said I won't. I said either you
can pay it or he can pay it, but
I'm not. I'm not taking care of
the ticket. I says because
here's what's going to happen. I
says when one of these kids get
hit, I says they're gonna
they're gonna come to me and say
what are you doing about
it? Right.
Number one and number two, I
says you better pull the
checkbook out because you're
gonna have to write a check,
yeah.
When somebody gets hit or
killed, so but yeah, he would
threaten me, threaten to fire me
on a daily basis.
That's a good way to motivate,
yeah, yeah. He finally, yeah, he
finally, and I mean, there's
there's a whole bunch. I mean,
went back and forth sparring
with this guy, and and yeah, he
was just he was a piece of work,
that's for sure.
Wow. Well, you know, it's what
ended up. Yeah, I mean, the guy
ended up paying the bill, the
ticket.
Oh yeah,
yeah.
Oh yeah. I mean, I had some
other ones where I stopped. I
stopped a guy one day, and and
you know, and he says to me, I
hand him his ticket, and he
hands it back, and he says he
was an Asian gentleman, and he's
like, he's like no ticket. I
give you chicken. I was like,
what? So he's trying to give me
a chicken for his ticket,
right?
You know, bribe
you.
Oh yeah, he's trying to bribe
me. I had another. You know,
you'd have people that want to.
You know, they own nail salons.
I want to do your nails. Now I'm
good,
right?
But interesting. I mean, I
stopped a gentleman one time,
and and you know, he's swerving
all over the road, and I says,
"Here, have you been drinking?
He's he looks at me, and he go
he goes, "Nope. I was like,
"Okay. I says, "You know,
license proof for insurance. And
you look down between his legs;
he's got a beer can between his
legs. He actually hands it to
me. He says, "Hey, hold this.
Yeah, he says, "Hold this. Let
me get my ID. I put it on the
roof of the car. I was like,
"Hey, step out of the car. You
know,
oh good.
But yeah, I mean, I can tell you
endless stories. I can
only imagine.
Of
yeah,
I get I get a lot asked a lot
about you know do I have PTSD?
Do I you know 2223 years you
know of of doing it, and and
prior to actually doing the
police you know actually on the
on the street type stuff. I was
on a task force, and I traveled
and did that for six years, and
that was that was rough. I'm not
a I'm not a live out of my
suitcase. You know, I'm one week
living out of a suitcase,
traveling over the country. It's
like being on tour.
It was horrible.
Yeah, it
was horrible. Yeah, it's at
least you're being kept busy.
You know,
you're bit you're busy, but it's
it's rough on the home life,
just like just like the touring.
Yeah,
but you're only home one week,
you know, one week a month.
So, getting how long were you in
in north of Seattle?
Four years.
Oh wow!
Yeah, spent four years, 15
to 19 essentially.
1818, 1818, to 2120.
okay, and then you know just
before that in Florida the whole
time.
Yep,
was it much different in
Florida? Where in Florida were
you?
So I would. I was in Pensacola,
so I was up in I was in
Panhandle.
The Panhandle was in the
Panhandle, and I lived in one
county over in Santa Rosa
County, but the the only thing I
hated about living in Florida is
that everybody would come and
visit, nobody would ever go
home.
Right.
So that was the only thing I did
not like about living in
Florida. When I went to Seattle,
and my wife said, you know,
whenever when I went to retire,
she's like, well, where do you
want to go? And I said, well,
I'm going to go back east,
obviously, but I. Don't want to
go back to Pittsburgh. She goes,
"Well, why not? You know, I'd
love to, you know, move back
there. And nah, I said, "You
remember we lived in Florida?
Everybody would come and visit.
Nobody would ever go home. What
do you think that would happen
if all your buddies lived in a
certain area? They'd all come
and visit. Nobody would ever go
home.
So, what do you mean by that?
So, if people in Florida would
come to visit and not go home at
all because they want to live
there,
no, they'd come down. They went
and go to the beach and
everything else. They'd come
down on the thing. Hey, I'm just
going to come down for a long
weekend. I'm going to come down
on Friday. Well, I'd be off
going to you know to canine
training all week. You know,
next thing you know, I'd come
home. You know that Friday, and
they're still there. But they
were only supposed to come down
for the the week, like Friday,
Saturday, Sunday. Oh yeah,
and they would just stick
around.
And they just stick around.
Then they have jobs to go back
to or anything? They
a lot well a lot of time at the
time people were working remote
and different things like that.
So they would come and next
thing you know, hey hey, we're
coming visit. You know, sunny
beach, 10 minutes from the
beach. They'd never go home.
What's the one thing about that
area that people don't get? They
don't understand. Like, is there
a misconception or misperception
about the area? It's very
alluring.
Yes, it very much is. Yeah, but
I mean, I could tell you. I
mean, the the parts that people
see is like Fort Walton Beach
and Panama City, and they see
you know Pensacola Beach,
Destin,
Destin. You know, it's all right
there. So 30 A, yeah, that's
that's the the draw. I think is
what it is. Or you go to Mobile
and you got Orange Beach. That's
where they do the Molotas, and
they got a big amphitheater over
there.
Well, Gulf Shores. Yep, we went
there one year, and it was we
had a great time, and there was
a lot of a lot of oil derricks
offshore. Like all of a sudden,
you you couldn't see one in the
daytime because it was obscured
by the haze. But at night, you'd
see the lights turn on, and
you're always going, "What is
that? And all of a sudden,
you're like, "Oh, that's an oil
derrick way off in the distance,
way out there. Yeah, you're way
out there. That was my first
Aldine concert, actually.
Oh, really? Yeah, Gulf Shores.
Yep. How many times you've seen
them?
Only one time. That's when you
know Tully asked me. He says,
"Hey, have you ever seen us
before? When I saw them, Florida
Georgia Line opened up for them.
So I'll tell you how many years
ago.
Oh wow! It's been it's been a
minute.
It's been a minute.
Yeah, it's
been a long minute.
So you get into coffee business
mode. Any business experience
prior to that? I mean, you know,
a lot of you guys like
firefighters, police, especially
firefighters, for some reason,
at least as they're portrayed on
Rescue Me, like their weekends
they'd spent building like
someone's porch, you know,
handyman work, that kind of
thing. Was that kind of your
story too, or you just
no? Actually, I so the coffee
was so acidic, so I started
researching where can I find low
acidity coffee, and then that's
where where my mission started.
I was like, okay, I like I'm
starting to like coffee. I'm
drinking it at night to keep me
awake, to keep me energized to
you know to run through 567 days
straight and some days you'd
work 16 hours. I worked I think
15 it was 16 hours a day for 15
days straight and I was you'd go
to work you're a freaking zombie
every night
yeah
and so there was different
different areas I found parts of
Brazil parts of Uganda, parts of
Mexico, parts of Honduras. You
went
to all these places.
Brazil, I go to the other ones.
I did not. But doing the
research and then and then
introducing to family farms and
different things like that.
That's where I found low acidity
coffee. So anything when you
when you start reading about the
roasting notes of something, if
you look on the side of the bag
of a bag of coffee, it's going
to tell you okay, chocolate,
nutty. It'll have floral notes.
It'll say that it's lemon.
Anything with fruit. So if you
think about tomatoes or orange
juice or anything, acid. So
anything that's fruity is going
to bring in acid. So if you have
sensitivity to to anything
acidic, stay away from those
those types of coffee.
Interesting. So, I actually have
a a beer podcast. We just met
here yesterday. We did three
episodes. We could only do three
episodes at once. Go figure. But
a lot they really turned me on
to hazy IPAs, like New England
IPAs, things of that nature, and
the higher the ABV, the more
flavor it's like, the sweeter it
gets. And some of these these
like you know, there's one that
there's a brewery up in
Nashville called Marble Fox, and
they have a beer called What a
Treat, and I want to say it's
like 11% ABV, it's a triple IPA,
and you pour this thing into a
glass, it looks like flipping
pineapple juice, and then you
smell it, it's like oh my gosh,
just fills up the nasal cavity
with just such goodness, and
then you know the the the nose
of it matches the taste, which
I. Because there's nothing worse
than taking a beer and getting a
really good nose, and it's
completely different. Does that
happen with coffee as well?
A lot of it has to do with the
grind too. So, so you can take a
really good coffee and screw it
up very easily. Um, the thing
is, is that in in one of the
things that that you need to
remember is that faster the
brew, finer the grind. Slower
the brew, coarser the grind. So
if you're doing a French press,
you're doing you know a
percolator or something like
that, an old school percolator.
You want to go very very coarse.
That's why when you see
expressos, it's super super
super fine because it's pushing
you know it's pushing through.
Now, here's the other thing: to
get that crema, you want to use
a different coffee called
robusta. Now, on its own, it's
absolutely horrible because it's
it's very earthy. It's very back
in the military days because it
was so inexpensive. They
actually made rifles. You'd have
to research this, but they made
rifles where they would give
them this robust of coffee, and
they had grinders in the butt,
and that's how they would grind
their coffee out of out of
battle.
They put it inside the rifle,
and and
the butt of the rifle there was
a coffee grinder. Really? Yeah,
and then and they'd put it
inside of a tube sock and and
put it inside you know on the
fire inside of a pot kettle.
That's how
you got to do.
That's how that's how they
brewed coffee back in the day
because they didn't have
filters, and then they started
putting them MREs and you know
meals ready to eat and so forth
and so on. But but one of the
misconceptions is a lot of
people say, "Hey, dark roast has
the most caffeine. That's
absolutely incredible. Light
roast. It's light roast. That's
right. So when you have a raw
green coffee bean and as you
roast it and what what you call
first crack. It sounds like
popcorn, you know, in the
microwave or popcorn. So that's
your first crack, and it's it's
like a yellowish. To me, it
tastes like wet cut grass. I'm
not a big fan of light roast
coffee. It's a it's an acquired
taste. But as you roast, then
when you get into your medium
roast, right around right before
right at second crack, that's
where your chocolate
caramelization and so forth.
That's where most people drink,
and then your dark roast. A lot
of people like that dark, that
smokiness and so forth. But then
when you pass there, like the
other, some of those other
brands, that other
company, that other
company, when you get into that,
that's your expressos and stuff
like that, and they call it
espresso roast. It's just
darker. It just basically, to
me, it tastes burnt. That's what
it tastes like. It just no
matter what you do, because
they're
roasting it for so long. They're
not necessarily that you're
brewing it hot or burning. I got
you. It's in the
roast. Basically, they're
burning it. Is what they are.
They're going beyond the dark
darkness. It should be. Now, the
other thing you can do too,
which we do and a lot of a lot
of folks do, is we add a robusto
coffee in with the dark. So you
blend it, and when you blend it,
your robusta coffee has double
the caffeine content, whereas
your Arabica coffee is what we
normally drink that that tastes
very very good that everybody
likes. Now if you ever had those
those one pods in the machine,
the the machine starts with an
N, yeah, and they they're like
discs,
yeah.
Okay, so a lot of those, if you
drink them and you don't add
cream or something to them, it's
very earthy. It's very robust.
It's got that they use straight
up robusto, and that's how they
get the crema, that that foam on
top. So, so in a in an espresso,
you're going to add those
robusto beans along with an
arabica, and you kind of combine
them. But you can do the same
thing for double the caffeine
content on a medium or dark. So,
what was the biggest surprise
going into it? So, I mean, you
kind of you you continue the
story. You went from and
researched all these different
countries. I would imagine the
soil has a plays into the
acidity or
near a volcano, high up, very
good water sources. Those less
acidic than those situations.
No, it's it's more where it's
grown.
Wow,
really, to be honest with you.
And then how the process
is too,
like you have a you know a
decaf. We we have a Colombian
decaf that's what's called a
Swiss water. So, I mean, decaf
is not 100% decaf. They can't
take all the decaf out of
it.
But basically, it's it's the
outside of the bean is stripped
using high pressure water is
where the caffeine lies on the
on the coffee bean.
Yeah.
But there's also a chemical
process as well. So you want to
try to if you're you're a type
of person that that wants to
stay away from wants a natural,
a very good clean coffee, you go
with a Swiss water if you're a
decaf person, Swiss water decaf.
But all of our coffees, when we
we get them. For instance, I get
a container of Brazilian, so I
get it from a family farm. I go
over there about June or July of
every single year, and then
anywhere from November they
start picking, and then I visit
about five families, and then in
November, between November and
January is usually when the
container arrives in the U.S.
and I usually keep it in.
Wisconsin, or I keep it in New
Jersey, and then as we need it,
we pull from the container and
we have it brought to our
warehouse. We have a 3000 square
foot warehouse, 18 wheeler pulls
up to our loading dock, and
that's where we bring it in. And
we go through so much coffee,
but the the coffee, the coffee
when when I lost my train of
thought. Go back to going
back to the the countries and
everything like that. You're
bringing it in, and you have a
18 wheeler pulling up.
Correct, correct. So, so on the
Brazilian, it all depends on
where what what country and
where you get it from, and again
how it's grown and so forth and
so on is, and of course the
process. Once we get the
container in, then I send it off
to a lab and and have it tested
for mold and mycotoxins and
yeast and so forth and so on.
How is
that is that a typical process
or is that something you do?
That's something I do special,
and there's a few other
companies out there that do it
as well. But they charge you for
the same. It's it's it's kind of
a marketing thing with these
guys. They say that you know
they do above, and we can talk
about those. But anyhow, they'll
charge you for the same 12 ounce
bag. They'll charge you 3040, 50
bucks, which isn't crazy. And
they're not doing anything
special with
it. Right?
They're just price gouging
people, and it's I had to do it
in order to sell to the folks in
California,
right.
So when I was when I started
moving into the market in
California, everybody kept
saying, "Hey, did you are you
testing this? And I'm like,
"What are you talking about? So
that's how I got introduced to.
Oh, okay. So you need to have
these certifications in order to
sell in different markets.
Oh, are they different state by
state?
You no, and you really don't
need
it,
right? Again, I mean, if you
think about if you think about
it, how how does mold how does
mold build up on anything? So
moisture
and
exactly, and and that's another
myth that people. I will get
phone calls and they'll say,
"Hey, listen, you know, I bought
a couple bags of coffee and we
keep them in the freezer. We
keep them in the refrigerator.
You probably heard that before,
right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Worst thing you can do.
Really,
they'll do that. Either a leave
it in the bag or put it in some
side, some type of dark air
airtight container. When you put
it, think about this. When you
put anything in the refrigerator
or the freezer, you take it out.
Let's think about a gallon of
milk. When you pull the gallon
of milk out and you put it on
the on the counter, what happens
after a few minutes?
Condensation.
Yeah,
same thing you're doing. You're
taking this item. It stays in a
stable environment when it's
inside. As soon as you bring it
out and you set it on that
counter for four or five minutes
or whatever it is, just to put
it, you know, in your coffee
maker, what happens?
Starts sweating.
It starts sweating, and you're
building up mold. And now what
you're doing is you're taking
out of that sterile environment.
You're bringing it out, and
you're going back and forth, and
you're curating mold.
Oh wow!
Here's another. Can
mold grow in a freezer, though?
It cannot. But the problem is,
is that when you bring it out,
think about that, though. As
it's as it's sitting there, and
the condensation's building up,
and it's starting to sweat.
What's happening? The spores are
already formulating.
Oh wow!
And then you're putting it back
in there, and you're basically
freezing it,
right? So it becomes still
there. It's still there.
It starts to become moldy. It's
preserved. Just preserved, and
that's the other thing with a
you know if you have a coffee
maker like a Misty you know a
Mister coffee maker or just like
a regular pot. So when you're
done roasting, you empty the
basket, leave it open. Same
thing happens. You've you've got
you just you just you know did
this coffee and now you're
closing it and it's wet inside.
So what happens? There's no air
moving.
So even where the filter basket
in the coffee maker, you want to
leave that lid open.
Just leave it open. Just leave
the top open. Because even
like we have one of those little
filters. We have a grinder next
to our coffee maker. We put the
coffee in, it grinds it up. We
don't store it in the in the
freezer or the refrigerator, but
with the moisture retained by
the plastic filter that came
with the coffee maker. Well,
a lot of times people close
that,
right?
So, so yeah,
we pull the lid close. Do we?
Just leave it open. Yeah, just
we might leave it open. Yeah, if
you leave
it open, that's the best thing
you can do.
Although you know, we'll brew it
overnight. We'll have a you
know, we'll set the time because
my my wife leaves early, like
between 445 and five. That
starts firing up, but that
coffee is sitting there in that
filter overnight. That's
perfectly fine. Is it okay?
That's perfectly fine. the The
issue is, is when you're done
brewing and the water has
flushed through. What a lot of
times people open it, they dump
the basket, they put the basket
back in empty because they're
not going to brew another pot,
and they close that lid.
What if you leave the coffee
grinds in there all day? You can
do that. Yeah,
I mean, it
no, it makes no difference.
It doesn't make any difference.
It's still closed
up and everything. It's still
closed up.
There's no air movement. So even
even if you brew and you're even
not going to take it out right
then, just leave it open.
Okay.
Same thing with Keurigs with the
pods. You know, you make a pod,
you take the pot out, you throw
it away, and if you're going to
use it, just leave it open.
Ah, okay.
Same situation. I mean, you're
building up. Building up, you
know, when you brew, you're
closing it, and it's wet inside
there. So now
I'm going to leave all my stuff
up. I've been doing it all
wrong. I've got a, you know, one
of your pods in my coffee maker
behind me. Yeah, I appreciate
that. And basically, it's, I
guess, preserving it. I don't
know.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you, you,
you get folks that'll, you know,
it's. I mean, if you just think
about how mold and the moisture
and everything else, I mean,
just little steps like that.
Yeah.
So you so you you you take a
leap of faith. You retire. You
started in 19.
Started in 19. So it was
a little bit of overlap from
where you're still working the
day job, and then your side
hustle was a coffee company.
I was only making coffee for
myself,
yeah.
And I bought this little. It
looks like a little toaster ever
called Be More. So I started
roasting one pound of coffee,
just experimenting, trying
different origins, trying
different countries, trying
mixing stuff.
You're like a home brewer.
Yeah, I was a yeah. I was I was
a straight up mad scientist in
the garage, and caught the thing
on fire a few times because they
didn't realize that every time
you do it, you know the oils
build up and you also catch on
fire and it
is oil. So
I yeah I went through a few
machines. Yeah, so lesson
learned.
So
my wife's caught on caught a big
roaster on fire before.
Oh really?
Oh yeah. How do they? I
mean, you could light a match
around them or something, or is
it just how it heats? No,
no. What happens is, is when
you're you're in the brewing
process. Obviously, as you get
further in, it's it's like
anything. I mean,
how do you how do you get the
oil out of it? I got you got to
have some sort of special
cleaner. No, no,
no, no, no. You don't do that.
It burns. It's like the grill.
You know, like a grill. You
know,
right.
You know, you cook and it starts
building up. Same thing with the
coffee bean. When you get past
you. You start getting your dark
roast. It really starts
caramelizing it. If you ever
open up a bag of dark roast and
it's super shiny,
yeah,
yeah, it's starting to. You
start getting into that,
and that the smell is yeah such
a good smell.
Especially when you grind
it. I can only imagine, dude.
When you walk into your place,
it must smell amazing. It's
smellivision. I get we we get
department bag. It comes in, so
we have an FDA, you know,
certification. We the Department
of Agriculture comes in, and
he's just like, "Oh man! He
goes, "You're one of the best
places I come to, you know,
because I go to you know meat
meat you know meat houses in
different places, you know,
butchers and stuff like that.
And is this something
about a cup, you know, coffee
brewing that's just man?
My wife loves the smell, hates
drinking it. Will not drink
it. See, I've I've gone past
like you know, as a kid, I used
to put loads of sugar and milk
into it. As I've gotten older, I
just use it as like, hey, I try
to put I put a little bit of
maple syrup, just a tiny bit,
just to give it a little bit of
a hint of flavor.
I've heard that honey.
Honey is one thing. Honey, I
don't really put sugar in it. I
mean, unless for B and I on
Wednesday mornings because the
coffee there's just the. I
used to go to those.
Yeah, yeah, I bet. Well, that
was that's a good thing. You
know, I was actually to suggest
you should probably do that. I
think the other day when we
talked, I forgot to bring it up,
but you're familiar with it.
Yeah, I'll put like a little bit
of like like even the yellow
sugars and stuff like that. That
it's just you know you're
putting freaking chemicals in
it. You know even the white
sugar. Oh yeah, sugar is not
supposed to be white. So if you
get the pure sugar, like there
was Florida crystals one time I
found in Publix down in Florida.
I'm like that's sugar, you know.
You just need a lot more of it.
Or that
sugar in the raw with brown.
Yeah, it's good stuff. It's
really good stuff.
But so you know, you have that
overlap. You were kind of like,
when did you decide to take a
step and make it a business? I
mean, you wanted to retire, and
the thing about retirement is
that so many guys do it, and
then all of a sudden, within
three to six months, they're
fricking bored out of their
skull.
I was,
yeah, I
was too. So I went through, and
really, I was I was doing the
coffee just for myself,
right?
A to have you know to find
something that didn't didn't
mess up my stomach or give me
acid reflux. I mean, at the
point, I mean, the acid was so
bad when I first started doing
coffee and and you know drinking
everybody else's coffee in these
stands and paying six $7 you
know even just for a regular cup
of coffee especially out west
and and so I wanted to do it I
wanted something nice and fresh
and something wasn't rough in my
stomach and and the acid reflux
was just killing me I was taking
I think 80 milligrams of mepers
all day
oh my God! Just because
because the acid reflux was so
bad. Oh, it was killing killing
me. Yeah, and and so whenever I
figured out okay what blends and
what I can do for the acid, now
I take nothing at all, and I
haven't for years. But so I
started in 19, kind of
experimenting. Started taking to
the police department, everybody
started drinking. They're like,
"Man, this is really good. You
ought to start selling this. I
was like, "Really? You know, you
know, this is a hobby.
So you, so you would take it,
and while you were brewing it
for yourself, and they would,
you would like get everybody
hooked.
I'd get everybody hooked, yeah.
And then, and then the
neighboring agency would say,
"Hey, you know, do you, you
know, can I buy a bag of your
coffee? And I was like, "Okay."
I'll just give it to you, and
then it got into okay. Let's
let's start putting stickers on
bags, you know, proof of
concept, and then we started
selling it at a local little
farmers market down the street,
you know. And
what were you calling it then?
It was still Peacemaker Coffee,
and everybody said, you know,
how did you come up with
Peacemaker Coffee? Well, it's
Matthew five nine. God bless the
Peacemaker for our for our God's
children. So, so that's really I
just got it from the Bible,
from from the Beatitudes,
yeah,
yeah,
and that's you know that's
really where Peacemaker Coffee
came from. I remember I remember
whenever I actually started, and
you can actually research this
on the trademarks. So I ended up
doing a trademark on it, and I
didn't even have it probably a
week, and there was a another
company with the word peace in
it out of Minnesota that sued me
immediately to steal my
trademark. Yeah, they just
wanted my brand, and I and and
in trademark office, you know,
trademarks you can't you can't
pretty much it's you can't get
anything. Were
they claiming the the word
peace?
No, they said that my brand
would confuse their people in
the market, and their their
brand was a turtle. My brand was
you saw. So it's revolving
different
product on a turtle.
Yeah, they're they're
interesting.
Yeah, theirs was an orange bag
with a turtle, and mine was a a
black bag with a you know with a
skull and and you know and does
that mean
there's the other like there's a
lot of those types of coffees. I
mean, you got heavy metal bands
that have their own coffee. You
know, Corn has their own coffee.
Anthrax has their own coffee. Or
no, the drummer at least is Zach
Wild has one. Yeah, from the
guys from New York. Yeah, from
Death Wish, Death Wish, and also
whatever band he's in, I can't
remember. But yeah, Benante,
Benante's blend-they called it.
It was-it was actually pretty
good, you know.
Yeah, I mean,
are they pretty much just
finding a place and white
labeling them, kind of like what
you're doing? Pretty much,
yeah, yeah. I do. We do that for
probably 75 plus companies now.
Oh, really?
Yeah. So it's it's our coffee,
their brand, their label. Well,
talk
about you know the benefits of
the reasons why you'd want to
consider diverting your your
coffee dollars to you. There's a
lot of different differentiators
that benefit people in the line
of service. Correct.
Correct. Correct. So, so when we
first started, we were doing X
amount, you know, $1 or two for
every bag sold, and then we
would find an organization. So
we did Wounded Warriors, we did
you know Fraternal War of
Police, we did PBA, we we would
do a bunch in fire and police
and military and and a ton of
things. It became so
overwhelming, and we spent more
time on vetting people. That I
mean, you would get
organizations coming out of the
woodwork. You'd never even hear
of them, and they would go and
have 501 Cs, and and you would
think you're doing your due
diligence, and then you'd find
out the money's just going to
the wrong place.
Right.
And so, and we would get calls.
I can remember people just
wanting free samples, and you
would, you know, oh, I got a
coffee shop, blah blah blah
blah, and next thing you know,
you know, you'd run the address,
and it's a trailer sitting in
the middle of a trailer park in
the middle of nowhere, you know,
but you know, just trying to
scam free coffee, and it it got
so crazy that that we we've
diverted from the money, and we
started we started giving
donations as coffee. So, for
instance, in in Toledo, every
year they they take the you know
like your Bridgestone Arena and
they turn it into a veterans
breakfast. So we donate all the
coffee to that. So every year we
do that. We've been doing it for
the last five years, and then we
have police departments, fire
departments. I probably get 50
requests a day. We probably pick
about 10 to 15, maybe 25 a
month, and we give away a few
$1,000 worth of coffee a month.
Wow! So it's it's. I remember an
overseas thing happened, and
they came to us and wanted
pallets of coffee. Well, you
can't do that. It's so expensive
right now. I mean, back then,
you know, even four or five
years ago, where where coffee
you know coffee prices were
versus where coffee prices are
now, ridiculous. I mean, I'm
paying for green coffee like $6
a pound, five $6 a pound. Well,
what people don't realize is
that five or $6 is really $7.50
per pound, because coffee is no
different than cooking a
hamburger or cooking a steak.
You pay, you know, and then you
lose 18 to 20% and the roasting
process of the bean because
you're drying it out, you know,
because there's moisture. So, so
that that $6 or $5 per pound,
you know, is $1 dollar 50 more,
and then you have the roasting,
you have the you know the labor,
you have the bagging, yeah. I
mean, there's so yeah, there's
so many things. So, so your
margin profits. I get a lot of
people that'll call me up and
they'll say, "Hey, you know, I
want to get in the coffee. I
mean, everybody wants to get in
the coffee business. You know,
interesting,
really.
It's crazy. It's crazy. And so
we get more calls about, you
know, I want to get in the
coffee business. Why do you want
to get in the coffee business?
Because everybody else is doing
it, I'm like, okay. Well, you
realize that you know what? So
what we've done, and we kind of
pivoted. And a lot of people
think I'm crazy for doing this.
So many years back, we ended up
getting all the the equipment,
getting all the machinery,
getting everything we needed. So
you can start your own brand and
not own anything. You come to
me. I we make 24 different
flavor coffees, and and I'll
talk about the flavors too
because it's a little different
than what what most offer. But
you come to me and say, "Hey, I
want to I want to get into the
coffee business, and you know
this is my design, this my
label, everything else. I sell
you a finished product. You just
slap your label on it to prove
proof of the concept, or you can
print. We do printing. We do K
couple lids, all that stuff. But
you can slap your label on it. I
sell it to you. Let's just say
for $9. You mark it up for $5.
You made your return, and you're
making $5. You don't own a piece
of equipment. You don't have to
do anything.
Right.
And it's right to your door.
It's business in a box.
It's exactly 100%
Yeah.
And so that's been a huge model
for us because of the fact, and
and other coffee companies, you
know, other folks will say, you
know, my local guys that that I
talk to, you're absolutely nuts,
you know, how could you, you
know, you're a sellout and this
and that, because and I'm like,
no, because when we started, and
I went to people and I said,
hey, can you help me bag this
stuff so I don't have to buy
anything? Can you help me bag my
product or could you roast my
product, or can you make me K
cups? Yeah, sure. Yeah, you got
to buy 2000 pounds. Yeah. Well,
I haven't even proved proof of
concept yet. Right. And now I'm
buying 2000 bags of coffee.
Yeah. So this is basically as
needed.
Correct. So so
it's a good deal. I mean, you
you showed me. You know, it's
it's crazy.
Well, and that's why we kind of
pivoted. We wanted to help
everybody else and the other
small business and the people
that are getting into it. A
educate you and tell you because
I learned a lot of lessons, lost
a lot of money, and so going to
our flavored coffees. We offer
24 different flavors, and with
the flavored coffee, what's
interesting about it is that
when we started doing it,
there's a place in Florida that
kind of makes, you know, it's
it's everything in a bottle, you
know. So okay, I want to make
s'mores. Well, it's already
pre-mixed at a lab, you know,
and that's what they are.
They're a flavoring lab. So you
get it. You roast the coffee.
You drop the coffee. You cool it
a little bit, and and when the
coffee is warm, that's when you
apply the the flavor to it
because the pores are open,
right,
and so you you apply you know so
many ounces to X amount however
many pounds you you made, and
and then you let it sit for 20
well 24 hours minimum, but
normally you want to let it sit
for about three days. So the
longer you let it sit, the more
flavor comes into
it. Yeah, marinates
exactly. Well, what happened
with us is that we had a
neighbor that we would let him
test stuff. You know, hey, tell
us, tell us what you think about
this, and what you, you know,
how do you like this? And didn't
know that the wife was an
extreme diabetic. Like every
little thing would set just
spiker sugar, so she couldn't
drink anything. And we were
Like, huh? That's interesting,
and so so Tiffany had a great
idea one day. My wife and said,
"Hey, what about? And she was
doing something, and she was
making a cake or something.
Something she was using vanilla
extract, and she said, "You want
to know something? I wonder if
we could use this, you know, to
flavor this, and let's try it. I
said, "Okay, well, let's try it.
So we ended up everything we
make is all extracts now. So so
what's interesting about the
extracts is that no sugar, no
alcohol, kosher for the folks
that you know you get into
Detroit, a lot of people are you
know have a kosher diet, so
kosher. I mean, so it fits
everything and it doesn't spike
diabetic sugar, so they can
drink it. The only caveat to it
is you need to add a little bit
of cream to it, like what you
said, which brings out a whole
new flavor. If you drink it by
itself, it's very bitter. So if
you drink one of my flavors,
it's it's very bitter. But if
you add cream to it, and as it
starts to cool, it's like it
brings on a whole different
world. You know, it's almost
like a dessert sometimes. Oh
wow! But
it's not overpowering because
it's very subtle. Because you
want you want people to taste
the coffee. That's the reason
why.
Yeah,
a lot of people go to these you
know places like what you were
talking about earlier that that
are coming possibly coming to
town. That to me, you know, all
that cream and sugar and milk
and everything else. It's I call
it a milkshake. Yeah, dice up
every. That's a
dessert.
That exactly. Yeah, 100% There's
always that
aftertaste too. My wife and I
always detect the aftertaste.
100% Yeah, yeah, without a
doubt.
Yeah, but I mean, it's it's
interesting. I mean, you know,
you talked about already just
every business kind of hits a
snag, snags, especially in the
first five years. You know, you
and I talked the other day about
that first five years being-it's
your proving ground. It's-it's
essentially the air-the
airplane's at the end of the
runway, revving up its engines,
and you know that five-year mark
is when the rollback happens,
and that plane's going to take
off, or it's going into the the
fence line.
I never thought it would turn
into a job. That's for sure. You
know, I I started the whole
thing as a hobby in 2019. It
really didn't take off until
until 22.
Yeah.
So in 2022, I retired in 21,
took nine months off, and and it
really kicked into gear into 22.
And and I started. You know, I
wasn't working full time, so I
went out and really started. I
got more no's than yeses. You
know, you go to every single mom
and pop store, you go to every
box store, you go everywhere,
and you know, 99% of the time
they tell you no.
Yeah.
But I believe in in trying
before you buy
it.
So I started, and we still have
it today on our website. Little
two ounce sample packets, and
and that's the same thing we
have for for the try it guys, is
that you know let them try it.
They can buy a sample set, they
can buy the pods, and it all
comes in a convenient little
packet, and you can try
everything. You try the light,
medium, and dark. You try the
pods, and and you know, and if
you like it, then buy a bigger
bag.
Yeah,
and so I started doing that with
you know walking into these
grocery stores and talking to
whoever, or talking to
corporate, and and that's pretty
much how it grew from there. And
I think we're in-I don't
know-you have to look on our
retail page, 100, 150, 175 mom
and pop stores. That's great,
man. Yeah. So it's
there's a company that I do a
lot of work with the Dream Motor
Group, and they own a bunch of
Mercedes-Benz dealerships around
the South. One of them being in
Baton Rouge, and out of Baton
Rouge is Community Coffee, and
they're over 100 years old. Yes,
and I actually got to interview
the owner, the CEO, while I was
down there because she obviously
she get you know gets her
service done at the dealership
and buys her cars there and
stuff like that. Wonderful human
being, very nice woman. What's
interesting about their coffee
is that anywhere down there,
they're putting chicory and
everything. And we had a
customer actually in in in
they're in Houston, I think,
that wants to do something with
chicory, but like an all natural
thing.
Interesting.
Yeah.
What other things kind of popped
up that you know price
structuring it. Are you trying
to stay within a a certain you
know obviously your costs and
adding your profit on top of
that and trying to be market
competitive and all that fun
stuff and dealing with commodity
pricing you know not much you
can do about that but people
have to understand that it's you
know you want a premium coffee
you got to pay a little more
premium for it.
100% I mean, it's it's that's
been that's been a very
challenging. So what we've done
is for our retail side, a lot of
that a lot of that stuff is
baked in. You know, we ended up
having to move $1 or two up,
probably about two years ago,
right after you know after
COVID, and then right right
after that, the market just went
insane, and what was happening
in Brazil that we were finding
out was that a lot of you know
we're all about the fair trade
and taking care of the farmers
and so forth, but the market
seemed to, and I guess there was
a lot of issues with the
president over there. So you
know, hearing from the Brazilian
folks on on what was going on
over there with the trade and
stuff, but they were holding
back, holding back a lot of a
lot of commodity that wasn't
being so. It shorted the market.
So when you short a market,
becomes in demand, prices go
through the roof.
Yeah,
and that's kind of what
happened. Shorted the market on
a lot of coffee. I mean, right
now it's really tough to get
Brazil coffee, and I mean, very
short, and if you can get it,
it's super high.
Really,
yeah.
That's. I mean, it's the thing
is that you know, with the
commodities, it's just tough to.
I would imagine it's just razor
thin margins,
razor thin margin. So it's all
about with us. It's all about
moving. You know, it. You don't
make big money on on a single
sale. It's it's all about moving
volume.
It's volume,
100% I mean, you make little
margins, but you're moving
volume, and you have to move
volume. That's the only real way
to do it. Yeah. Um. You know,
and then when the tariffs, you
know, that that killed just just
killed us. I mean, you're you're
talking two, three more dollars
per pound with all the tariffs,
and then a kind of shape, yeah,
and
then adds up.
It adds up, and then you can
never calculate shipping. Amazon
has ruined it for everybody
because everybody wants free
shipping now.
Can you offer yours through
Amazon?
We've been on Amazon. Matter of
fact, they were the very first
person to put me on their
platform.
Really,
back then you had to send them
your product, and they tested it
and tasted it to get on the. Now
everybody and anybody can get on
Amazon.
Yeah, well, it's it's a process
though. They take a hefty
portion of whatever you whatever
the spend is. Oh yeah,
without a doubt. Yeah, they take
probably 15% Yeah, you know the
least amount of profit I make on
a product is Amazon. You're
lucky if I make $1 and and on
somebody order one box of K cups
and after the shipping and
everything else, I I lose $1.
Wow!
So it's a loss. I take a loss on
it just to sell. But again, it's
such a monster, a marketing
monster.
Yeah, he created the the the
world's first online shopping.
100%
essentially.
I mean, it's it's an absolute
monster. If you're not on Amazon
and people can't find you, you
know,
it's kind of like a musician or
an artist being on Spotify and
Apple Music. You got to be there
in order. You got to get that
distribution for people because
that's where people are going to
be. But you know, the problem
inherent there is the fact that
they pay nothing for those
streams. I mean, nothing. I
mean, fractions of a cent per
stream. You know,
Amazon just milks it out of me.
Yeah, I mean, you know, and you
can always raise your prices,
and it's all about building a
strong brand that's got quality
behind it. I mean, we literally
just my my daughter was coming
back from UTC for my wife's
birthday from Chattanooga, and
there's a pizza place there that
out of the blue and out of
nowhere, you know I'm from the
Northeast. Good pizza is a
rarity down here. So when you
find it really good, and this
guy is actually from Philly, he
moved from Philly to Florida,
and then he half backed to
Chattanooga. Now he's got a
winery and pizzeria called
Lookout Winery, and it's on the
side of a mountain overlooking
the Nickajack Lake and the
river, and the it's gorgeous,
really cool experience. He built
a wedding venue there. That's
cool. And when we went there, we
were camping at a campground
locally, and they they had one
of those little flyers that they
give you when you go there. And
like, yeah, let's check this
place out. You know, we went up
this like winding switchback
road to go to the side of the
mountain of this restaurant, and
we ordered the pizza. And the
pizza was like, my wife and I
look at each other, going, "Oh
wow, this is actually we weren't
expecting much.
What kind of wait is it? Is real
thin, like a New York style? It
was like
almost like a Northeast New York
style. I even brought my brother
there, who's very finicky about
pizza, and he was like, "This
place. I said, "Dude, try it.
And he tried it, and he goes,
"Oh my gosh! And he pulled up
Portnoy's Pizza Raider, and
apparently the place had like an
8.8 or something. Wow, it was a
high score.
I just went to one that that
that he did a review on in
Detroit, and he called it the
number one pizza in Detroit.
Really?
Oh my gosh! Yeah, good.
Freddie's the pizza man. Freddie
the pizza man, or something like
that. Was it make it back
in Detroit or in like? It was
in Detroit.
Oh wow!
He was in Detroit, and it was
probably about a week and a half
ago, and absolutely fantastic.
Well,
fantastic.
She comes through. I said, "Hey,
why don't you pick up four pies
and bring them in? We'll have it
for dinner. Not that good.
Something changed.
Wow.
Yeah. You know, and all of a
sudden, it's like the brand that
you had in your mind and the
perception of it. All of a
sudden, oh come on, man! What'd
you do? Well, you know,
a lot of times, it's it's the
quality, and then obviously the
pricing. Yeah, the prices go up,
and I don't mind paying the
price up. It's freaking
25, $30 a pie. I know, I
know. But I'll tell you some of
the research that I do. I will
stand in a in a in an aisle in a
store, and I just I'm a people
watcher, and I watch people, and
it's interesting how people will
walk up and down the coffee
aisle, and they'll look. I mean,
there's a million brands
anymore, you know, and and local
guys and stuff, and they walk up
and down, and it's so amazing. I
mean, some people will buy that
filet mignon and pay the price.
Yeah,
most people want you know a
filet for the hamburger price,
you know. But I watch the people
go up and down, engage in
conversation with them, you
know, and they'll look at what
they don't realize is they're
paying more or they're paying
the same price, but they're not
paying attention to the bag and
where the bag, you know, they're
paying $1 more now, but they
dropped off two ounces, but they
don't pick up on that 10 ounces,
or they don't pick up. This is a
12 count box over here, but they
see this over here for $8 or
whatever it is, and they're
like, and they shop by price.
Yeah,
and really they shortage by 2k
cups, and now you're paying 80
cents a cup versus you're paying
maybe 75 or 70 cents a cup.
Yeah,
so I see that all the time, and
and I'll start engaging them as
like, hey, you realize you're
paying more, and it's and
sometimes it's that's what I can
afford. So I've actually, well,
hey, why don't you try this
brand over here? Let me buy you
a couple boxes. So so we'll do
stuff like that, and um, man, I
mean, there's so many things
that that you know that I want
to get into, and it's just I
wish I could clone myself, you
know. I mean, there's so many
different avenues where, you
know, for instance, you know,
like you talked about the
dealerships, you know, you know,
dealerships, you know, private
labeling, you know, you go in,
they'll have a bunch of K cups,
or you know, and branding it
their brand,
right?
Versus you know some off brand.
Interesting. I walked in Safe
Like the other day, and had a
conversation with them, and
they're just buying, you know,
something from Walmart and stuff
like that. And he said, "Man, it
would be kind of cool if we can
do it for you.
Yeah,
and so just so many
opportunities like that. And we
just we just get introduced to
we had a couple real estate
agents come in the little sample
packets that we have the two
ounce sample packs. You can make
a whole 12 pot you know. Cup of
coffee and and they said hey you
want to know something what if
we printed up like a two and a
half by two and a half sticker
could you make these for us and
we just want to put them on so
we sell a house we can put them
inside of a basket you know like
a gift basket we sell a house
with all like the you know
different different products and
stuff you know wines and
crackers and different things
and I said hey that that's a
great idea
that's one way of doing it,
yeah. So I mean, you know, I
learn new things every day, and
it's been you know five, six
years, whatever it's been now.
Well, the
white labeling thing is is kind
of a very I never really thought
about doing. I'm I probably did
at one point, but I didn't
realize how pervasive it was,
how you know big of a business
that is. So the 75 businesses
that is that are buying from you
on a regular basis, they're
white labeling it,
100% Wow! So we we pack the
product. So some of them will
send us their product. I've got
a company in Cleveland that'll
send us six seven pallets of
coffee. So we're not really
doing anything for them. Is
they're they're importing it
from Italy. They bring in.
They'll have a truck deliver
seven eight pallets.
Okay, so their other coffee
company, their other coffee
companies, yeah.
So I'll get six, seven pallets
of coffee, and it's whole bean
or ground, and then they'll give
us their bags, and then we're
just packing for them. So we're
packing, we're casing,
repalletize. They have the
trucking company come and pick
it up.
Wow. So
we're doing that as well.
That's interesting. I mean, I
was thinking that you were just
doing it for businesses, like
you said. You know, hey, we're a
dealership. We want to put our
logo on, and here's our own
coffee, quote unquote. But you
and I talked about, you know,
getting podcasts, you know,
podcasts to have their own
coffee. It might as well. It's
advertising,
100%
You know what I mean? It goes
right through your your
organization. You're setting up
the website, you're setting up
the the merch in a way. So yeah,
I mean, I'm there's so many
things out there. It's just I
just don't have the time in a
day, you know. And well,
where do you want to see it go?
What's it look like 510, years
down the road?
I would love to turn it, you
know, turn it into. I mean,
it's. It, it's it's it's grown
beyond my wildest dreams ever.
Again, you know, it started out
as a as a hobby, and it's turned
into a job, you know, and and
I've got four. You see
it that way.
I see it that way. I see it that
way. You feel
like you own a job?
I yeah, I'm because I'm again.
It's all what you put. What what
I notice and it drives the
younger, the younger
generation
generation. Yeah, drives me
absolutely crazy because there's
no work ethic. Once we paid a
lot of money, you know, every 10
seconds, you know, hey, go,
they'll do A, B, C, and D, they
can't. They're not self
sufficient at all. Right. And
next thing you know, you go
around the corner and they're
doing this on their cell phone.
It's like you get to the point.
It's like, come on, you know, do
we got to put them? You know,
act like everybody's five years
old to put them in a box. You
know. But I mean, we employ
five, six people full time, and
then and then I have four or
five people that are that are
part timers. They're either you
know, veterans or on disability,
or you know, or just need that
extra income. You know, they're
over 65. They're on Social
Security, but they can only you
know collect say $1,000 a month
or whatever the cap is. Yeah,
and so we try to employ a lot of
folks that you know need
it, need it. You know, and and
and the older generation. I
mean, you know, I'm I'm giving a
lot of the younger generation,
but it's it's just so tough. You
got to go. What's the ratio? How
many people you got to go
through to find the one?
It's tough.
Is it? It's really in the
electrical field in the trades.
When I when we own a business
that did that, it was about 12
to one. We had to go through
about 12 people, 12 duds to find
the good one.
It's it's all the time. People
don't want to show up to work or
they're late all the time. I
mean, but you know,
on the other side of it, like
even even with corporate, I'm
finding out with you know my
wife's job, she's basically you
know they pay them well, but
when it comes time for raises,
it's like they're not talking
dollars. They're still talking
cents, and it's like, guys, you
know this is this. The things I
would say if I were employed by
somebody again to my boss or
manager, I would literally say,
with what was offered to her, I
say, you know what? Why don't
you keep it? You guys obviously
need the money more than I do.
Agreed.
You know, you you and you're
actually proud of the fact that
you're giving me more than what
was expected. You're telling me
this. Don't say that because
this is nothing to be proud of.
I had that happen to me. So when
I first retired, I had a large.
So my expertise too is in is in
DOT and federal motor carrier
compliance and data queuing and
crashes and so forth and so on,
and I get a lot of I get a lot
of attorneys that still call me
to this day. You know, hey, I
had this fatality or I had this.
You know, I'm worried about my
client getting sued or whatever.
Can you come back and
re-investigate it? And I was
about nine months into into
retirement, and I had a large
trucking company that you would
know of that's in check. Danuga
reach out and their head
attorney hired me and to to work
a lot of their really large
cases and same thing was
happening it was like hey listen
I'll do these couple you know
and then let me walk away and it
was sense it was like well if
you need the money more than me
then and I kind of walked away
at that point but
yeah
same same thing. It's just, it's
almost, it's, it's
on both sides of the coin. You
know, you can't really blame the
people. Not that I'm saying I'm
saying that you're underpaying
them, but you know, I, you know,
there. What is the threshold to
really start separating the
wheat from the chaff? You know,
where does the cream rise to the
top? When do you get to that
level of cream, and it's like to
me, for a company like the one
she works for, it's like
they're huge, right? I got a
buddy that yeah, an executive
there. We'll talk about that.
Well, that's the thing is that
you know this is what happens
when bean counters run the
operation. There's no culture
being kept in mind. You know,
the Atta boys come in the form
of $5 sandwiches, and not even
like boars had meat. It's Publix
meat,
yeah.
And it's like you know they they
they give them these the like,
hey, you did great. You need to
so and so secret shop to you.
You need passed with flying
colors. Here's a $5 half
sandwich.
That's crazy.
That's like guys, you know how
much these people would love to
if you gave $100 a month, even
$50 a month away to each
department. What is that going
to cost you?
You just feel you you just feel
unappreciated and valued, and it
really yeah I agree with you
100%
It's it's it's nuts, man. I'm
like the the solution so simple.
You do realize that if you just
bump it up to $50 a month, just
a gift card, just a gift card.
It
means so much to people.
Oh, they they'd freaking eat
that up.
I saw. Hey, listen, I saw the
exact same thing in the police
world. Yeah, you know, you would
have. You know, you get these
guys that knew where they came
from. You know, they work the
streets. They understand. You
know how it is. Yeah. And then
all of a sudden, as they start
moving through the ranks, you
know, now they're sitting in an
office and it's all
administrative and so forth and
so on.
Yeah,
same type of bean counter type
of things, making things that
don't really understand what's
really going on with the boots
on. You see it in the car
business.
Agreed. And and and nobody
talks.
Yeah,
you know what I mean. Or you
have to go through so much chain
of command that it never
translates up, never translates
down because the person down
here, everything's fine,
everything's fine, everything's
fine, everything's fine.
Right,
can't fix if it's not broke,
right?
But then they got like an
ostrich, you know, with the head
buried in the sand too.
Yeah, because it's yeah, because
of the political politics.
That's why I got out of it
because of the political
politics more than anything.
Well, man, what where people
could find and follow you, and
if they're interested in taking
you up on white labeling coffee,
where should they go?
PeacemakerCoffeecompany.com. You
can find us on Instagram. You
know, send us an email. You
know, info at
peacemakercoffeecompany.com and
reach out. I mean, you know,
answer any questions you you
have.
There you go. Here we're going
to put it in the all the details
in the description as always,
and of course, if you want to
share this episode, if you got
some value out of it, check it
out at mmtbp.com. That is a
truncated version of the mostly
Middle
Tennesseebusinesspodcast.com.
Much shorter way to type it.
Just say mmtbpp.com, and there
you go. Chris,
appreciate you.
Thanks for having me. Thanks for
coming out here, man. It's a
long drive.
I appreciate the invite, my
friend.
Thanks for being here.
Absolutely.